LightandDarkness:
I think your grrates challenge was you failed to find a true sense of self, principles and moral identity.It seems like
1.you think it's hard or difficult to be a good, balanced and well rounded person outside religion.

Yes, it is hard and difficult to be a good balanced and well rounded person outside Jesus Christ. You can be all those by your standards or the soceity's but not by God's standard. You may ask which God, the christian God? a parochial view that many would interpret as arrogance. But I was once as liberal as anyone could get, especially as an atheist because I had to unlearn almost everything I knew about christianity. But you see when there is no expectation of judgement for all words and actions in this lifetime, people would live as they please and would justify it as good especially when there is no law against it.

2. You ask me what i have to lose as an atheist simply believing in God, I don't think I should believe in something because of the consequences for not believing, especially when you don't believe in heaven or hell. I cannot be faithful and claim to live my life by something I do not believe

Not believing doesn't change anything, but if you want to find out if He is God, invite Him and He will come. About talking about the consequence, I prefer a direct approach because it's biblical. The bible says unbelievers would reject the message of truth and it is not me that would make anyone see the need for repentance but His Spirit so I will not be sparing with the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Truth is not meant to make everyone comfortable anyway. Besides I'm not looking for church members or for people to like me. But it just goes that I have told and you have heard. By the way, so you know where I'm coming from, death and hell preaching never caused me to lose a millisecond of sleep as well but like the bible says '...in salvation the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith...' the more you continue in God, the more these truths become clear to you.

Another thing, do you believe there is justice in this world? Of course not. What do you think would happen to people who only themselves and perhaps their dead victims know about the injustice and evil they have done? Would they simply get away with it or they would just die and go like the 'good' others? But I tell you there is going to be justice and judgement for every word and action uttered by everyone in this lifetime and the Judge is our Lord Jesus Christ. He is God who sees and knows everyone by hearts and minds, which all sin proceeds from and He says 'Vengeance is His and that we should not avenge for ourselves.' So when you hear about 'pray for your enemies' and 'turn the other cheek' it is for this reason because we know there is life, death and then judgement that's why believers do not react or fight their persecutors, even if they do, they repent before God because it is counted against them. Look at what christians go through in regions laden with islamic extremists just for spreading the message of Jesus and you think there won't be judgement?

3. You also ask how does it feel to not be much better than the witch who killed her child. I contest there is a massive difference, only one who is insane will think it's okay to murder their children. Interestingly enough the first recorded instance of attempted filicide was Abraham attempting to sacrifice Isaac. The only reason why you would think he is different from a witch is because one was allegedly done under gods command and the other was done for the devil. In reality they are essentially the same thing.

Of course, there is massive difference between one who kills children and another who had never even had the thought but what's similar is that when atheists blaspheme about Jesus, the cross and curse God, they do the same work of the devil that the witch does, but in crass ignorance. About Abraham, yeah some of the questions I had. Abraham was tested and he demonstrated obedience. In other cases where God killed or instructed to kill whole families including children in the OT.

Here is a bit of what I know, You see when people talk about God as a loving God and tell about the love of Jesus, this started in the New Covenant when Jesus came. Prior to that, God is to be feared because He is Mighty, Strong, Great and Terrible God, who visits the iniquities of the fathers to the third and fourth generation as was described numerous times in the OT. This gives one a sense of the wrath and judgement of God. He is still the same God, He is unchangeable only we now have access to Him through Jesus Christ our saviour that's why we can call him our Father. Jesus offers salvation as a gift for everyone jew, gentile, muslim, agnostic and atheist even the witch for all to be one with Him and be counted as righteous from the washing clean by the blood of Jesus.

4. Anyway I'm glad something gave you the peace you were looking for. For some of us it's not simply about feeling intelligent.

I wasn't looking for peace, I sought power or protection at the very least but He filled me in areas I had lacked all my life.
I noticed your comment doesn't have the typical vitriolic response of atheists, I respect that. I sort of feel you are agnostic, anyway, I mentioned atheism and feeling intelligent because other than being acknowledged for being intelligent, what else does it do for anyone? Maybe you should answer that...What does it do for you?

TheSixthSense:

It seems like 1.[/b]you think it's hard or difficult to be a good, balanced and well rounded person outside religion.

[b]Yes, it is hard and difficult to be a good balanced and well rounded person outside Jesus Christ. You can be all those by your standards or the soceity's but not by God's standard. You may ask which God, the christian God? a parochial view that many would interpret as arrogance. But I was once as liberal as anyone could get, especially as an atheist because I had to unlearn almost everything I knew about christianity. But you see when there is no expectation of judgement for all words and actions in this lifetime, people would live as they please and would justify it as good especially when there is no law against it.


2. You ask me what i have to lose as an atheist simply believing in God, I don't think I should believe in something because of the consequences for not believing, especially when you don't believe in heaven or hell. I cannot be faithful and claim to live my life by something I do not believe

[b]Not believing doesn't change anything, but if you want to find out if He is God, invite Him and He will come. About talking about the consequence, I prefer a direct approach because it's biblical. The bible says unbelievers would reject the message of truth and it is not me that would make anyone see the need for repentance but His Spirit so I will not be sparing with the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Truth is not meant to make everyone comfortable anyway. Besides I'm not looking for church members or for people to like me. But it just goes that I have told and you have heard. By the way, so you know where I'm coming from, death and hell preaching never caused me to lose a millisecond of sleep as well but like the bible says '...in salvation the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith...' the more you continue in God, the more these truths become clear to you.

Another thing, do you believe there is justice in this world? Of course not. What do you think would happen to people who only themselves and perhaps their dead victims know about the injustice and evil they have done? Would they simply get away with it or they would just die and go like the 'good' others? But I tell you there is going to be justice and judgement for every word and action uttered by everyone in this lifetime and the Judge is our Lord Jesus Christ. He is God who sees and knows everyone by hearts and minds, which all sin proceeds from and He says 'Vengeance is His and that we should not avenge for ourselves.' So when you hear about 'pray for your enemies' and 'turn the other cheek' it is for this reason because we know there is life, death and then judgement that's why believers do not react or fight their persecutors, even if they do, they repent before God because it is counted against them. Look at what christians go through in regions laden with islamic extremists just for spreading the message of Jesus and you think there won't be judgement?[/b]


3. You also ask how does it feel to not be much better than the witch who killed her child. I contest there is a massive difference, only one who is insane will think it's okay to murder their children. Interestingly enough the first recorded instance of attempted filicide was Abraham attempting to sacrifice Isaac. The only reason why you would think he is different from a witch is because one was allegedly done under gods command and the other was done for the devil. In reality they are essentially the same thing.

[b]Of course, there is massive difference between one who kills children and another who had never even had the thought but what's similar is that when atheists blaspheme about Jesus, the cross and curse God, they do the same work of the devil that the witch does, but in crass ignorance. About Abraham, yeah some of the questions I had. Abraham was tested and he demonstrated obedience. In other cases where God killed or instructed to kill whole families including children in the OT.
Here is a bit of what I know, You see when people talk about God as a loving God and tell about the love of Jesus, this started in the New Covenant when Jesus came. Prior to that, God is to be feared because He is Mighty, Strong, Great and Terrible God, who visits the
of the fathers to the third and fourth generation as was described numerous times in the OT. This gives one a sense of the wrath and judgement of God. He is still the same God, He is unchangeable only we now have access to Him through Jesus Christ our saviour that's why we can call him our Father. Jesus offers salvation as a gift for everyone jew, gentile, muslim, agnostic and atheist even the witch for all to be one with Him and be counted as righteous from the washing clean by the blood of Jesus.[/b]



4 Anyway I'm glad something gave you the peace you were looking for. For some of us it's not simply about feeling intelligent.

I wasn't looking for peace, I sought power or protection at the very least but He filled me in areas I had lacked all my life.
I noticed your comment doesn't have the typical vitriolic response of atheists, I respect that. I sort of feel you are agnostic, anyway, I mentioned atheism and feeling intelligent because other than being acknowledged for being intelligent, what else does it do for anyone? Maybe you should answer that...What does it do for you?

1.See I disagree, it is infact possible to be a good person with a good life outside Christian by "God" or anyone's standard. There are terrible people who still claim to worship said Christian God and some good people too, same for bad people as with everything else. Religion doesn't and will nevery make a bad person good unless they want to be. Interestingly I see Christians consistently fail to live up to that God's standard of morality, lying fornicating murdering etc and the only reason why they think it's not wrong per second is that all they have to do is ask for forgiveness. Good thing society does have laws, most often driven by what a thinking rational society believes is right, it was because of human logic we no longer have slaves today, they existed all throughout the period of the Bible but all the great prophets never once condemned forced slavery

2.Actually I was a Christian and based off your story I had a stronger Christian background than you did. Church every Sunday, devotion everyday twice a day, Sunday school teacher, choir etc but yet here we are.

3. I don't believe the world is just or fair although there is some justice. However this just and unfair world is the world (according to you). The only true justice is that which we can have here, the belief in justice for the wicked outside this world simply acts as a comfort which I guess is what makes it easier to believe in. As to Muslims you worship the same God they do and many of those Muslims believe they are following the preachins of Muhammed inspired by God. You would say God doesn't permit murder but I'm sure you've read the old testament.

Let's be objective, if anyone today said they killed their Son because God told them to do it as a test you would say such a person was most likely schizophrenic. That's a very common justification for the difference between God in the old testament and new testament. How can God be terrible and loving at the same time, be wrathful and kind. If he's the same God (and I wonder why its assumed God is a male) then he is still the wrathful, terrible and wicked God. Acess through jesus does not change that especially as you believe you'll meet God some day, this is the God you will meet. A wrathful, terrible, wicked and jealous God, an ironically very human God. I belive this supposed change in the potrayal of God was simply a shift in the norms of the times.

4.There is no protection for something you don't really believe exists, I am atheist which I imagine you must have seen more clear from this reply. What it does for me? Nothing same as being a Christian. I've always had my own views on what I believed were right and wrong and they weren't always compatible with Christianity. I've continued that way so really nothing much has changed in that aspect. Your question is similar to asking what does not believing in santa do for you, nothing because you no longer believe in the benefits santa had to offer i.e. gifts under the christmas tree. I didn't become atheist for some reward or advantage, I don't believe there is in fact a God or a heaven or a hell. I do believe these are things that were constructed a long time ago to explain things that couldn't be explained at the time like the origins of the universe, humanity, life and death. Similar to how demons were believed to be responsible for disease and afflictions. I find fear of the unknown is really a poor reason to want to bekieve in God. small note on The Conjuring series which I love cause I enjoy horror, a lot of the events are exaggerated, Wikipedia could tell you that.

Also something I wanted to drop on the previous reply https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_syndrome

Moisef:
Indeed sister, I stopped going to church because I hate the Jesus they portray (commercialized version). All they center around is the amount they have to drive to the church account after marketing his holy name (Even the so called S.U churches too). No one seem to care about the salvation of souls anymore, members will rather come to church to show off and one would wonder if its a beauty pageant or a house of praise and prayer... But after reading this write-up some days back my only prayer has been for God to lead me and my family to a place (church) where he dwells and delight in. A place where I can feel his presence. A place where the undiluted word of God is preached.

My darling, I fell into that satanic snare of forsaking the brethren because of what I saw happening the church. But don't be discouraged dear one. If you seek the Lord with all your heart, even inside hell, He will locate you and show you the path to where you can grow in Him. I was a skeptic of the worst kind but God has opened my eyes to realize it's all about Him.

The Lord will keep you in the Light.

Shalom

LightandDarkness:



1.[/b]See I disagree, it is infact possible to be a [b]good person with a good life outside Christian by "God" or anyone's standard. There are terrible people who still claim to worship said Christian God and some good people too, same for bad people as with everything else. Religion doesn't and will nevery make a bad person good unless they want to be. Interestingly I see Christians consistently fail to live up to that God's standard of morality, lying fornicating murdering etc and the only reason why they think it's not wrong per second is that all they have to do is ask for forgiveness. Good thing society does have laws, most often driven by what a thinking rational society believes is right, it was because of human logic we no longer have slaves today, they existed all throughout the period of the Bible but all the great prophets never once condemned forced slavery.

[b]Still goes back to the same argument. Who/what determines what is good, the society? even so where did society get their moral code from? There is no law against telling lies or cheating in relationships or fornicating but would you say a liar and a cheat is good? Where someone's freedom ends is where another's starts, you may not be a liar or a cheat and would consider these as wrong and immoral but what stops me from embracing those especially when there are no laws against it? About christians indulging in immoralities you mentioned, it is one thing to have laws and it is another to abide by them especially when there are no immediate repercussions here against them. I won't say they are not christians but they love Jesus like in He says in John 14:21. there maybe occasional lapses here and there even from the most faithful because we are still human, but like a father would know which child respects him by their attitude after disobedience so does God.
Also it is not because of human logic we are no longer slaves...
[/b]

To the other point, do you really feel that all what the thinking rational society says is right is right by you? if there is no law against bestiality as with some others, do you think they are right? You see many people, atheists, act like they have no problem with some of these rational society laws until it comes right in their homes, like when their children joins the parade.
Our conscience is what makes us different from animals and logic cannot explain away that. Why even the worst liar, killer, or murderer is shook when they commit their firsts that's why many people get disturbed when they first start watching porn or even masturbate. A lot of people eventually tranquilise and become numb to their conscience by diverse means like drugs, smoking and alcohol but it never goes away. That is what God restores at salvation, your knowledge of good and evil will be restored. And if you look at the law of God, you would see that it is good.

2.Actually I was a Christian and based off your story I had a stronger Christian background than you did. Church every Sunday, devotion everyday twice a day, Sunday school teacher, choir etc but yet here we are.

[b]I believe you will be restored. You are already sealed for the day of redemption and I noticed from your comments that it's not the typical attack type atheist responses. Yes, you had more thorough christian background but I would say you really never believed, you had no encounter the bible says doubters receive nothing from God and also it is by faith we can please God, by faith we know the world was created and by faith Abraham, Moses and the other examples obeyed God even though they never saw the promise. Christianity is based on faith you already know these. Unlike you I probably had a much more wicked and sinful background but I got my encounter and experience so now despite my questions I had as an atheist that I still remember, here I am telling about Jesus.

An analogy I would use here is imagine you have a book telling illogical stories about a person but you didn't believe existed because the stories you knew about him were ridiculous. But one day the person visits you and calls you by name and you become aware that the person is actually real. The person eventually leaves but then encourages you to continue reading the same book you used to laugh about and tells you that's how you would know more about him. Would you continue laughing at those stories like you used to? especially when you share your experience and you discover a lot of people have had similar experience and know about the person. God knows about your questions and doubts, you should have asked Him simply to give you a reason not to leave doing His will. You can still ask God for your real experience He knows. That's why it is important for everyone to know the reasons behind what they do or believe. [/b]

3. I don't believe the world is just or fair although there is some justice. However this just and unfair world is the world (according to you). The only true justice is that which we can have here, the belief in justice for the wicked outside this world simply acts as a comfort which I guess is what makes it easier to believe in. As to Muslims you worship the same God they do and many of those Muslims believe they are following the preachins of Muhammed inspired by God. You would say God doesn't permit murder but I'm sure you've read the old testament.

I actually convinced myself hard to believe that justice outside this world only acts as comfort for the weak, people who couldn't fight back. But now I know better. Muslims may know about the God of Abraham but they do not get to Him by their worship. Jesus says “I know that you do not have the love of God within you. I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him” (John 5:42-43) and also “The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him” (John 5:22–23) and “You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also” (John 8:18–19) and He is talking about the God of Abraham.

Let's be objective, if anyone today said they killed their Son because God told them to do it as a test you would say such a person was most likely schizophrenic. That's a very common justification for the difference between God in the old testament and new testament. How can God be terrible and loving at the same time, be wrathful and kind. If he's the same God (and I wonder why its assumed God is a male) then he is still the wrathful, terrible and wicked God. Acess through jesus does not change that especially as you believe you'll meet God some day, this is the God you will meet. .

[b]Yes, I also had questions about lot offering his daughters instead of his guests, the angels, to the homosexual rapists that were at his door. God tested Abraham and didn't let Abraham kill his son. I'm sure he didn't tell Sarah what he was going to do with Isaac because I believe she would not have let him. It is a crazy thing to even attempt. God is the same, OT and NT. God is terrible because he gives judgement and His wrath cannot be avoided. He is loving because He paid the ultimate price for us not to be destroyed by our sins by sending Jesus the Son to die for us even while we were yet sinners. Is it human to love those that are in rebellion against you? then you still go ahead to sacrifice your only son just to have a relationship with these same people, and they refuse but you wait. That kind of love isn't human, we dislike people that rebel against us but that is God's love, He loves them. He is also jealous, He said it Himself and He alone should be worshipped. God is Spirit and is referred to as with masculine pronouns. Access through Jesus gives you inheritance in the most powerful God there is. The One who created all things, who knows the end from the beginning.[/b]

A wrathful, terrible, wicked and jealous God, an ironically very human God. I believe this supposed change in the potrayal of God was simply a shift in the norms of the times

Probably from the popular free grace messages of christianity today, that God loves you so much that He wants to make all your dreams come true, He will fulfill your fantasy. Mere reading the bible yourself, the NT, you won't even read too far before you start to question where they get these doctrines from. God loves us, Yes. He loves sinners and wills for them to come to repentance, Yes. But He hasn't changed to the mushy cuddly humane teddy bear that isn't wrathful. Everyone would be judged according to works. He is our Father because of Jesus Christ but He remains our Lord and He owns us, He decides what and when He does by His will for us and NOT the other way round.

4.There is no protection for something you don't really believe exists, I am atheist which I imagine you must have seen more clear from this reply. What it does for me? Nothing same as being a Christian. I've always had my own views on what I believed were right and wrong and they weren't always compatible with Christianity. I've continued that way so really nothing much has changed in that aspect. Your question is similar to asking what does not believing in santa do for you, nothing because you no longer believe in the benefits santa had to offer i.e. gifts under the christmas tree. I didn't become atheist for some reward or advantage, I don't believe there is in fact a God or a heaven or a hell.

You never had an encounter, it's that simple. It's similar to what I said here I think, superior arguments or logic isn't enough for someone to hold on to christianity. You can only go so far before you ask yourself, why do I go to church every Sunday? Why do I continue doing these? the whys make you reflect and question all you know or have been taught but only when you have an encounter and continue in relationship then those questions will never arise again. Here is what the bible says 'They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us' 1 John 2:19 that's if you were born again before you turned atheist. Someone might read this verse and force themselves to remain but that's not how it works. Can one remain by free will, no death for apostasy for 30 or 40 or the rest of their life without an experience with God? No.

I do believe these are things that were constructed a long time ago to explain things that couldn't be explained at the time like the origins of the universe, humanity, life and death. Similar to how demons were believed to be responsible for disease and afflictions. I find fear of the unknown is really a poor reason to want to believe in God. small note on The Conjuring series which I love cause I enjoy horror, a lot of the events are exaggerated, Wikipedia could tell you that.

They gave a very good account of creation but the bible isn't merely an explanatory book for how the world started. It tells about God, the fall of man because of sin and God's gift of salvation to man for reconciliation with God. That's not the whole summary but that's the most basic. And oh demons do a lot of evil with people and in people.

The Enfield house was a well reported on newspapers and documented case. I read the book, maybe you should too. The book has references not wikipedia. You should visit the museum too. It's not even like the Warrens believe in Jesus Christ anyway. But I made my decision, and I had an encounter, and I doubt if it was only because of fear of demons and the book I read, I would be talking about Jesus a lot of the time.

Ask God to make Himself revealed to you.


Also something I wanted to drop on the previous reply https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_syndrome

Good read and you write well I must commend.

TheSixthSense:
Who/what determines what is good, the society?

The society, yes.

even so where did society get their moral code from?

Empathy. Reason. The desire for a more pleasant, less painful existence for the majority of humanity.

There is no law against telling lies or cheating in relationships or fornicating but would you say a liar and a cheat is good? Where someone's freedom ends is where another's starts, you may not be a liar or a cheat and would consider these as wrong and immoral but what stops me from embracing those especially when there are no laws against it?

As an atheist, why should you not be dishonest even when the law allows it? Because you want to be known as a honest and trustworthy person. When you say anything, you want people to believe you're telling the truth, due to your track record of always doing so. If people know you as a liar and a cheat, they'll be wary of doing business with you, dating you, marrying you, employing you, accepting you as a tenant, lending you money, etc. Society has many ways of punishing dishonest people. Religion is far from being the primary reason to be honest.

Our conscience is what makes us different from animals and logic cannot explain away that.

That may not be true. I think Elephants may have a sense of right and wrong too, whereas some human beings - psychopaths - don't have it.

That is what God restores at salvation, your knowledge of good and evil will be restored. And if you look at the law of God, you would see that it is good.

This doesn't explain why many atheists who are very moral, look at the bible and think it is immoral e.g. for stoning sabbath breakers.

Yes, you had more thorough christian background but I would say you really never believed

Don't you think this is an incredibly arrogant thing to say? He accepts your claim of belief in God, yet you reject his claim to have believed?

LightandDarkness:



2.Actually I was a Christian and based off your story I had a stronger Christian background than you did. Church every Sunday, devotion everyday twice a day, Sunday school teacher, choir etc but yet here we are.

I really like the conversation you are having with the OP. I have a question for you? While you were a Christian, did you hear from God? Did you have conversations with Him?

Seun:
The society, yes.

Empathy. Reason. The desire for a more pleasant, less painful existence for the majority of humanity.

As an atheist, why should you not be dishonest even when the law allows it? Because you want to be known as a honest and trustworthy person. When you say anything, you want people to believe you're telling the truth, due to your track record of always doing so. If people know you as a liar and a cheat, they'll be wary of doing business with you, dating you, marrying you, employing you, accepting you as a tenant, lending you money, etc. Society has many ways of punishing dishonest people. Religion is far from being the primary reason to be honest.

Why shouldn't I be dishonest when no one would ever find out? why should I not cheat on my wife with the beautiful girls when she would never find out? Why would I want to miss out on the spoils of corruption when it is the culture and I can distort legal justice? It's my life to live, one life and how many years do I have left anyway, going by the average?

You really believe society has a way of punishing dishonest people? lol. This reminds me of a conversation I had with an atheist colleague of mine who got pissed off by his work group members. He went on and on about karma this and karma that. But I laughed hard. Which karma? then he went on to describe how someone who offended him one time got married and gave birth to a deformed baby. So, he concluded that was karma catching up. Another day, he came in with a swollen face, someone tried to mug him but only ended leaving prints of his haymaker on his face. So I asked him, if he thinks that is karma catching up with him then he laughed and said that's not how karma works, he hasn't done any wrong to anyone. Do you also believe - permit me to use the word - in karma?

That may not be true. I think Elephants may have a sense of right and wrong too, whereas some human beings - psychopaths - don't have it.

Elephants? I never heard about that. I would like to know more. Psychopaths, don't because some are possessed by demons (you don't have to believe this) or may have killed their God given conscience long ago. There's always a history in such cases, go back to their childhood...when I have the time I will look into it. But even psychopaths get shaken by their first murders

This doesn't explain why many atheists who are very moral, look at the bible and think it is immoral e.g. for stoning sabbath breakers.

You, as a former christian, don't tell me you don't know about the new covenant in Jesus? Christians believe Jesus Christ is Son of God, co-equal in trinity of the Godhead- that's what I believe anyway. So what did Jesus say when they tried to stone the prostitute as was their usual custom? 'Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.' Another one, when Peter cut off the ear of one guard that came to arrest Jesus, what did Jesus do and say. He never supported such actions, instead He healed the man so what does that tell you about our God? I have said it several times that Jesus wasn't religious or in religion because the most religious never knew Him.

Don't you think this is an incredibly arrogant thing to say? He accepts your claim of belief in God, yet you reject his claim to have believed?

How is it arrogant? 'I would say you never really believed' isn't arrogant to me and it certainly wasn't what I intended. If you had followed till the end you would also see where I mentioned that without an encounter, you can only go so far before you reflect and begin to question all that you have learnt and why you do all the religious rituals as a christian/church goer and you would see the scripture I quoted about people who leave - that's just one of them. But with experience/encounter and fellowship, I know God is and He hears me, and I learn more about Him through scriptures. Even if it was an isolated experience, I would continue in Jesus. But, the beauty is that I am not alone, there are millions of other believers who are relationship with Jesus Christ. So it's up to you guys.

I won't paint christianity like a marketer trying to sell a product and tell you with Jesus nairaland would be bigger than Facebook. So if you want that accept Jesus. That would be a fat lie and deceptive thing to do that is sin against God. Besides, I am not trying to fill church pews or boost the reputation of christianity, No. And of course, nairaland can be bigger than Facebook - I hope it does so you can move my testimony to the front page again - but there are several other ways to achieve that.

benjibabs:


I really like the conversation you are having with the OP. I have a question for you? While you were a Christian, did you hear from God? Did you have conversations with Him?

Thank you, no I did not. I always wondered what people meant by a conversation with God. Most people I've spoken to can't say, did they hear a voice? Where it came from. A conversation isnt just speaking it's receiving a response. I personally think most peope that say that speak to God probably experience something from their unconscious.

LightandDarkness:


See I disagree, it is infact possible to be a good person with a good life outside Christian.

Very correct. You don't have to be a Christian to be a good person.

It is infact possible to be a good person with a good life outside Christian by "God" or anyone's standard.

I disagree @ the bolded, that's fallacy of false equivalence. As you are trying to describe a situation of logical and apparent equivalence, when in fact there is non.



This is simply a logical impossibility if we take into account the definition and concept of God. Simply put, he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. The eternal self existing supreme being that created time and space and the entire universe and everything therein.



Now with this definition, tell me, how is it possible for a mortal being of your nature with frail human composition and limited sense of judgement on what is universally true and moral, to have a moral standard that equates that of God.



For this to happen it is either you are God or you have an absolute sense of what is universally true and morally rigth and wrong. Of course we know you ain't got any of these.



Also, to dissapoint you a little, God is not a moral God but a righteous God. Simply put, morality is a concept of human construct. It is a sub set within God's law of what is rigth or wrong.



To elucidiate, someone may be entangled with a particular bad habit e.g, being a kleptomaniac. Now on face value moral guage, this is an obvious moral lapse by all standard. But are you aware that such a one might actually pass God's guage of (moral) rectitude? While on our own human judgement such a person can only be such a social despicable oddity.



Now the following reason will suffice for while such character flaw may be condoned by God.

If the person in question always feels remorsed from his or her heart of heart and is making sincere and committed effort in breaking loose from this moral flaw. This condition holds true for the Christian person and any non Christian who for whatever reason has never heard the message of salvation found only in Christ.


Two similar but sligtly different examples in the Bible of God's sense of moral judgement differing from that of man can be found in the story of Lot and his two daugthers and also Judah and his daugther in-law.


The reason for this response, is to show you and other Atheists that God sense of judgement on right and wrong may be diametrically opposed to that of man.



Therefore no matter how morally right you guys may seemingly claim to be in your own limited sense of morality, it can never measure to that of God. Hence you guys should quit your futile effort in tryiny to analysize and box God in within your limited and skewed moral compass.

Religion doesn't and will nevery make a bad person good unless they want to be.

You are both right and wrong.



Right in the sense that there must first be a willing and sincere heart desiring for a change in a positve way.



And wrong for your circular reasoning in inferring that religion itself doesn't and will never make a bad person good. As there are countless individauls who where only able to right their moral flaws only when they came in contact with certain religion with particular moral code that gave them a new sense of moral compass.



The Op himself is a living evidence for you. He has manifestly made it clear that he led a terrible lifestyle and couldn't turn around not untill he found Christ, the king of glory and not just him but myself and many others.

Interestingly I see Christians consistently fail to live up to that God's standard of morality, lying fornicating murdering etc and the only reason why they think it's not wrong per second is that all they have to do is ask for forgiveness.

Firstly, you will be wrong to think that the only reason some of them fail to live a consistent Christian life is because all they have to do is ask for forgiveness, after the Bible clearly teaches in the book of,,

1 John 3:9 -whosover is born of God does not commit[make a practice of] of sin; for his seed remaineth in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God



So any Christian who after reading this, then thinks he or she can keep perpetuating a life of sinfulness without any sincere and determined effort to correct it is only living a life of self delusion and there are plethoral of scriptures in the Bible admonishing us to desist and abstain from any appearance of evil.


And that those who draw back to a life of sinfulness will not inherit the kingdom of God.



Even apostle Paul got up talks of how he disciplines his body and puts it in check so that wont be a cast away after he might must have finished preaching to others.

TheSixthSense:
Why shouldn't I be dishonest when no one would ever find out? why should I not cheat on my wife with the beautiful girls when she would never find out?

Every thief or liar thinks he will never be caught. He thinks the wronged party will never find out. And it's just not true in many cases. There's no way of knowing if you'll be one of the lucky ones. The fear of having your misdeeds exposed at an unpredictable time is best avoided. Also, if you're a decent person, you have a conscience, and when you abide by your conscience, you will feel good about yourself, which is great.

Why would I want to miss out on the spoils of corruption when it is the culture and I can distort legal justice?

Assuming you're a politician, right? Well, after leaving office you get to live in constant fear of being prosecuted by EFCC. You know that at any time your political opponents in power could launch justified legal cases against you and get you locked up. Who wants to live like that?
Your belief in the need for judgment after death doesn't mean it exists. Your desire for the existence of something doesn't create it. People who accept the fact that there's no evidence of divine justice after death will work harder to ensure that there is human justice before death.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with an atheist colleague of mine who got pissed off by his work group members. He went on and on about karma this and karma that. ... Do you also believe - permit me to use the word - in karma?

There is no evidence for karma. Sometimes, people get what they deserve. Sometimes, people get the opposite of what they deserve.

LightandDarkness:


Thank you, no I did not. I always wondered what people meant by a conversation with God. Most people I've spoken to can't say, did they hear a voice? Where it came from. A conversation isnt just speaking it's receiving a response. I personally think most peope that say that speak to God probably experience something from their unconscious.

Yes, a conversation is not just speaking, but also receiving. I wish pastors and Christians generally would break it down when they say God speaks with them. From what I've learned over the years, God speaks in different ways - audible voice, inner witness (still small voice), dreams, visions (open and close), etc. The primary way God speaks to believers is through the "still small voice" (another terminology that needs explanation). If you dig deep you will find out that majority of people who told you God spoke to them were actually talking of the "still small voice."

So, how does the still small voice work? God through the Holy Spirit drops a piece of information into a believer's spirit and from there the believers pick it up in their thought. Have you ever done something wrong before and then it occurred to you thereafter that "something" warned you not to do it? Have you ever had a thought to do something but it sounded out of place at that time only to made perfect sense hours/days after? I experienced this a lot after I gave my life to Christ years back, but I did not understand what was going on with me. Years passed and I eventually, through hearing messages and reading books, learned that the "something" that has been speaking to me in my thought was the "still small voice" of God. Lots of times I either overrode the thought by reasoning out the message or missed the thought all together as the voice of God. With time, I've come to learn and understand the voice of God (or thought from God) and obeying the voice has brought peace and valuable knowledge.

The challenge that most Christian face when it comes to the "still small voice" is how to identify the voice (or thought) of God from the myriad of thoughts crossing our minds every minute. Peace is the leading way you would identify the voice of God. When God speaks to your heart, it will bring peace. Have you ever been stuck with two options while trying to make a decision? Thinking of one option brings peace while the other leaves you agitated? Still small voice is quite subtle that we can miss it or easily override it. The key is to be sensitive, learn it and obey. With time one becomes accustomed to it and it becomes a way of life and feels more conversational. This is just the tips of the iceberg when it comes to hearing from God. I can recommend great books and audio if you would like to dig further.

Let me share with you a personal experience:

A while back, here on Nairaland, I got interested in a member and was getting close to her when all of a sudden she disappeared. I had that peace I talked about earlier concerning this person. One day, I was in the shower and I was talking with God about her when God said, "I will bring her back when the time is ripe." Note that I did not hear a voice! It was a thought that was imprinted in my heart; the thought stood out from all others. Also, note the construct of the sentence - it could not have been my thought, but a response from "someone." Well, I believed and held on to that message and she finally came back to the forum after about 6 months. She also has her testimony of why, how and when she left and returned. We got married two years later and our relationship has been great.

Seun:

Every thief or liar thinks he will never be caught. He thinks the wronged party will never find out. And it's just not true in most cases. There's no way of knowing if you'll be one of the lucky ones. The fear of having your misdeeds exposed at an unpredictable time is best avoided. Also, if you're a decent person, you have a conscience, and when you abide by your conscience, you will feel good about yourself, which is great.

But the truth is not all thieves or/and liars get caught. I don't think I can even say most get caught. Besides being cunning is a skill people learn so you never know. There has to be justice. And justice would be served by God's judgement.
Decency isn't a virtue in any societal law so why should I be decent especially if I'm very skilled at cheating and getting away with it. And I like how you have talked your way back to conscience that you said elephants also have. You see conscience cannot be explained away by logic. It is God given that's why we are different from animals. One may choose the not listen to it and make a habit numbing it but it's always there.

Assuming you're a politician, right? Well, after leaving office you get to live in constant fear of being prosecuted by EFCC. You know that at any time your political opponents in power could launch justified legal cases against you and get you locked up. Who wants to live like that?
Your belief in the need for judgment after death doesn't mean it exists. Your desire for the existence of something doesn't create it. People who accept the fact that there's no evidence of divine justice after death will work harder to ensure that there is human justice before death.

Haha. You've got jokes. Which EFCC? when I can easily join APC to wash my sins away. It's easy to evade justice that way
Of course, that's true. And no doubt it's all for the good they work harder to ensure justice here. It's similar to what I used to say about religious people and their 'god-of-the-gaps' in comparison with scientists.

There is no evidence for karma. Sometimes, people get what they deserve. Sometimes, people get the opposite of what they deserve.

So there you have it. There is no true justice in the world and it's safe to say there can never be true justice in the world. We can only try to improve but as long as people keep their rights to freedom, even if they lose it, a whole lot of evil would go unnoticed and unpunished. For me,
I don't just hope on some tooth fairy for justice to help me get by in this world, No. I know there will be judgement from God.

Codedrock:
Mosquitoes provide food for bats. Mosquitoes pitch in to help pollinate plants. Anopheles is the major problem not to mention not all mosquitoes bite.

If mosquitoes didn't exist, bats would eat other insects and plants that are currently pollinated by mosquitoes would be pollinated by other insects. Also, my criticism is focused on disease-carrying mosquitoes and the parasites they carry, such as the malaria parasite.

And back to the mosquitoes matter, since you believe everything is by chance why aren't there mosquitoes and other common flies more dangerous than they are right now? i mean there should have been a chance of us having common flies that just one single bite of theirs would lead to death immediately.

There is a cost associated with developing the ability to kill a human being with a single bite. A mosquito that kills its host with a single bite won't gain any advantage with respect to survival, thus it will be at a disadvantage. It would waste resources developing useless poison.

NO NO NO the point is this: Atheist should stop using the universe's design to judge the existence of GOD, why? Cos you didn't design it did you? If you believe he designed it bad, as a thinker you should know that doesn't justify his non existence does it? If he existed (which I believe) he could have done it this same way why? cos he is the designer even if he is wrong or right he probably has his reasons.

Theists claim that the universe is so beautiful and perfect that it must have been designed by their God. We're just refuting that argument. I'm not saying that the flaws in the design of the universe prove the existence of God. I'm saying it doesn't prove the existence of God. That's all.

Don't get me wrong I'm totally not against atheists or their belief I mean they have every reasons to believe there is no God even more than we that believe there is God, if you are a deep thinker and not a fanatic you wouldn't criticize atheists being atheists nor would you think they are stupid cos in reality their belief is more real than yours.
But that's why we are humans right? We choose to believe what we believe.

What most atheists would argue is that we should not choose to believe anything unless the evidence suggesting the thing is true is strong.

solite3:
All you atheist, do you have want proof that the supernatural exist? It is easy, but be warned you might live in regret for the rest of your life.

VISIT A CEMETERY AT 12:00 NIGHT START CALLING THE SPIRIT OF THE DEAD TO SHOW THEMSELVES TO YOU.

IF YOU GET LIVER, AND STOP COMING TO NIRALAND TO PARADE YOUR IGNORANCE

my brother that is too much


tell them to go and destroy a shrine nearest to them, let see if they have liver

youngestland:


pain atheist in the ass why? you sound like a young guy

athiesm is not a religion bros we are not competing for humans we believe everyone should use their head

i always tell people you cant be an athiest because of another person its personal you have to be the one to take that decision after you have carefully taught of it. please e no go pain us because we no they find followers abeg

nice one op I still hope I will get an evidence that there is a god because am seriously searching but till then I they my lane

Go to The Lord's CHosen Ministry @Ijesha Bustop. Stay in the sick people's category. And watch the miracles happen when the man of God prays from the alter.

Today Thursday 10/27/2016, Instant miracles: A boy who had HIV for 6 months, could not walk, matiated and at the point of death, during the Pastor's ministration regained strength and symptoms vanished, 3 years Madness healed, dislocated bones joins together can now walk and others which could not be taken because of time.

On Febuary 7 2016, As i was coming for annual crusade titled "From Sorrow to Joy", I was perplexed to see a lame man dragging himself on the ground and crowds of people climbing over him. After several minutes of search for wheelchair, i resolved to carry him on my back to the Revival ground. I bought snacks for him. After Testimonies, the anointed man of God came out and ordered that if you brought a sick person, go near the person. He started with deaf and dumb and then he commanded the lame to rise up and work. And i pulled him up. IMMEDIATELY, his dead legs received life and strength and he worked for a far distance to the front alter. His testimony is featured in the "Sorrow to Joy" cd. And i felt i was the happiest that day.

Conclusion.
God is alive and very real. Come and hear what God is doing for people in The Lord's Chosen. You will greatly marvel.
You can whatsap me. 09057540638

GREAT TESTIMONY!
Please keep riding on with Jesus till its over. As long as we are in the world, there is temptations, persecutions, falsehood deceptions even within christianity. Christ warned us.

@ TheSixthSense
Hi Bro!
Your testimony is inspiring. God is Love, but love is subjective. How do you prove love? Its either you know you love or you don't.

Just as there are counterfeit love e.g. Lust, there are counterfeit gods. I thank God you found your way back to Him.

Please, can you check out these posts. They will help your ministry and service to God. If you have any questions, you can pm me. Love you Bro!

PART 1:
https://www.nairaland.com/3423081/real-fake-student-university-heaven
PART 2:
https://www.nairaland.com/3436394/how-improve-spiritual-cgpa

Shalom

Thanks a lot. God bless you.

shadeyinka:
@ TheSixthSense
Hi Bro!
Your testimony is inspiring. God is Love, but love is subjective. How do you prove love? Its either you know you love or you don't.

Who can prove love? I cannot.

Just as there are counterfeit love e.g. Lust, there are counterfeit gods. I thank God you found your way back to Him

Thank God.

Please, can you check out these posts. They will help your ministry and service to God. If you have any questions, you can pm me. Love you Bro!

PART 1:
https://www.nairaland.com/3423081/real-fake-student-university-heaven
PART 2:
https://www.nairaland.com/3436394/how-improve-spiritual-cgpa
Shalom

My spiritual CGPA is 1.1/5.0 I had to settle the dean of spirituality to allow me to stay on probation.

TheSixthSense:
Thanks a lot. God bless you.

Who can prove love? I cannot.

Thank God.


My spiritual CGPA is 1.1/5.0 I had to settle the dean of spirituality to allow me to stay on probation.

Ha ha ha !
LMHO! Can he be settled!
He will say to you in His usual quiet firm masculine voice. Do your Assignments!

You just know that He means every letter of the three word sentence.

Seriously speaking:
I believe that when we graduate, we shall cry bitterly when we look at all the opportunities we missed to show love, laziness at serving Him and souls lost because we procrastinated and took no action.

But then, He will wipe away all our tears and say "at least you made it, you are now with Me. Enter the joy of your Father".
Rev 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Lets pull on and not faint my Bro, His grace will see us through.

lomzy1:


God bless you for the "bolded". You just ministered to me. I'm definitely going to pray now and it will be my only request.
You are God sent.
Pls pray with/for me if you can.

Happy Christmas , my dear friend. I do remember you in prayers asking God to lead you to a personal experience of Himself.
I will be glad if you get in touch

Another seductive fat LIE meant to convert gullible individuals into CRAZEtianity! Try something else, a lot of us are already familiar with this.

Any intelligent and skeptical individual that reads your thrash would stop half-way after seeing the lies and stupidity in it. Atheism is growing everyday and your cheap blackmails and mockery as a CRAZEtian cannot stop it, not even in Nigeria! Try something else.

lilliesboy:
Any intelligent and skeptical individual that reads your thrash would stop half-way after seeing the lies and stupidity in it. Atheism is growing everyday and your cheap blackmails and mockery as a CRAZEtian cannot stop it, not even in Nigeria! Try something else.

Atheism has been growing for centuries before you were born, today its still a minority worldview and likely to remain so. Hopelessness does not sell well with humanity.

winner01:
Atheism has been growing for centuries before you were born, today its still a minority worldview and likely to remain so. Hopelessness does not sell well with humanity.

A "minority world view" that is a big THREAT to imbecil*c CRAZEtians like you, I suppose? Christianity is a minority religion and world view in China, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, India, North Korea, Pakistan and even Yisrael till date. And these aforementioned countries make up half of the world's total population, thus Christianity is the minority world view only popular amongst African mental slaves like you. Get your facts right. Many churches are being turned to dance clubs and beer bars in the United Kingdom and elsewhere.

Atheism does not look for crowd or multitudes by going door-to-door preaching or invading other people's privacy like CRAZEtianity does; its "minority" members are rare gem and enough to promote its humanistic cause! The greatest brains in the world were and still atheists, others are NON-Christians. Go and loose your ignorance!

lilliesboy:

A "minority world view" that is a big THREAT to imbecil*c CRAZEtians like you, I suppose? Christianity is a minority religion and world view in China, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, India, North Korea, Pakistan and even Yisrael till date. And these aforementioned countries make up half of the world's total population, thus Christianity is the minority world view only popular amongst African mental slaves like you. Get your facts right. Many churches are being turned to dance clubs and beer bars in the United Kingdom and elsewhere.

Atheism does not look for crowd or multitudes by going door-to-door preaching or invading other people's privacy like CRAZEtianity does; its "minority" members are rare gem and enough to promote its humanistic cause! The greatest brains in the world were and still atheists, others are NON-Christians. Go and loose your ignorance!

Ouch, you're toxic and angry, like many contemporary atheists.

China, Russia, USA etc have more number of Christians than Nigeria. And maybe you don't know, irreligion or secularism does not equal atheism. Atheism is still less than 4% of the total world population.

Also, the greatest brains ever were largely religious, most of the areas of science we pursue today were founded by christians: https://www.nairaland.com/2975009/christianity-reason-science

Likewise, many of the greatest educational institutes of the world were founded by Christians, Harvard, Oxford, Princeton etc.

Also, calling me a mental slave will not change the fact that Christianity was well present in Africa prior to the transatlantic slave trade. I buttressed that in point 7 of this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/4424673/slavery-bible-answers-christians-atheist

Also, despite otherwise claimes or actions by those not following the teachings of Christ, Christianity has done more than atheism will ever do for humanity, I proved that here: https://www.nairaland.com/3232251/what-exactly-atheism-done-humanity

You also need to know that the 20th century was the century of the atheist. This was the century that most heads of states and countries were declared atheistic. See how they performed:

https://www.nairaland.com/3232176/atheist-presidents-heads-state-quick

https://www.nairaland.com/2988881/atheism-terrorism-annihilation-quest-atheistic

https://www.nairaland.com/3176513/atheist-murderers-past-present-murderous

Once in a while you need to question atheism like I opined here: https://www.nairaland.com/4416369/atheists-mind-free-enough-question



You sound fierce, like one of those newly converted atheists who is equally as bigoted as religious individuals, who thinks atheism is synonymous with intelligence or science.

I hate to break it to you but the atheistic belief is as old as humanity itself, however it is and will continue to remain a minority worldview because of the hopelessness and impracticability associated with it. There are obvious reasons why every generation of humanity have believed in one form of God or the other. Those reasons are stipp there, and the biggest of them all is that "Reality is not all there is".

winner01:
Ouch, you're toxic and angry, like many contemporary atheists.

China, Russia, USA etc have more number of Christians than Nigeria. And maybe you don't know, irreligion or secularism does not equal atheism. Atheism is still less than 4% of the total world population.

Also, the greatest brains ever were largely religious, most of the areas of science we pursue today were founded by christians: https://www.nairaland.com/2975009/christianity-reason-science

Likewise, many of the greatest educational institutes of the world were founded by Christians, Harvard, Oxford, Princeton etc.

Also, calling me a mental slave will not change the fact that Christianity was well present in Africa prior to the transatlantic slave trade. I buttressed that in point 7 of this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/4424673/slavery-bible-answers-christians-atheist

Also, despite otherwise claimes or actions by those not following the teachings of Christ, Christianity has done more than atheism will ever do for humanity, I proved that here: https://www.nairaland.com/3232251/what-exactly-atheism-done-humanity

You also need to know that the 20th century was the century of the atheist. This was the century that most heads of states and countries were declared atheistic. See how they performed:

https://www.nairaland.com/3232176/atheist-presidents-heads-state-quick

https://www.nairaland.com/2988881/atheism-terrorism-annihilation-quest-atheistic

https://www.nairaland.com/3176513/atheist-murderers-past-present-murderous

Once in a while you need to question atheism like I opined here: https://www.nairaland.com/4416369/atheists-mind-free-enough-question



You sound fierce, like one of those newly converted atheists who is equally as bigoted as religious individuals, who thinks atheism is synonymous with intelligence or science.

I hate to break it to you but the atheistic belief is as old as humanity itself, however it is and will continue to remain a minority worldview because of the hopelessness and impracticability associated with it. There are obvious reasons why every generation of humanity have believed in one form of God or the other. Those reasons are stipp there, and the biggest of them all is that "Reality is not all there is".

I don't waste my time reading copy-and-paste junks and links. You got nothing tangibly rational to say. "Irreligion or secularism does not equal atheism," you say. Then what is irreligion/secularism or what does it equal? Confused deluded CRAZEtians.

lilliesboy:

I don't waste my time reading copy-and-paste junks and links. You got nothing tangibly rational to say. "Irreligion or secularism does not equal atheism," you say. Then what is irreligion/secularism or what does it equal? Confused deluded CRAZEtians.

Lol, but you can waste time with copy and paste from atheist websites?

So you don't know that several irreligious people believe in God, you've never heard of deism?

You are a typical African who just got converted to atheism, I understand. You must be young too. Take care.

winner01:
Lol, but you can waste time with copy and paste from atheist websites?

So you don't know that several irreligious people believe in God, you've never heard of deism?

You are a typical African who just got converted to atheism, I understand. You must be young too. Take care.

Still a junk write-up as usual, but that is what you are good at. Where are the atheist sites/links I put up here? Your eyes are as deluded and confused as your brain. You talk of deism: is it CRAZEtianity? Is deism in your BuyBull or accepted by jesus? Why not go for deism then rather than having headache over atheism's superb growth? Dumb hypocrite!

lilliesboy:

Still a junk write-up as usual, but that is what you are good at. Where are the atheist sites/links I put up here? Your eyes are as deluded and confused as your brain. You talk of deism: is it CRAZEtianity? Is deism in your BuyBull or accepted by jesus? Why not go for deism then rather than having headache over atheism's superb growth? Dumb hypocrite!

Lol, stop call names, you're so angry and you need a therapist.

Another Characteristic of new atheism is that they will go with anything but Christianity and so its not surprising that you are sympathetic to deism. The links I posted to you are intelligible and well researched articles with tangible proof. However since, it exposes the negatives of atheism, I'm not expecting you to read them in an attempt to protect your dogma.

winner01:
Lol, stop call names, you're so angry and you need a therapist.

Another Characteristic of new atheism is that they will go with anything but Christianity and so its not surprising that you are sympathetic to deism. The links I posted to you are intelligible and well researched articles with tangible proof. However since, it exposes the negatives of atheism, I'm not expecting you to read them in an attempt to protect your dogma.

Angry that you are stupid or angry that you are having migraine headache over a "minority world view" called atheism? The one who needs a therapist is you - the CRAZEtian who says deism is irreligion but atheism is something else. And to think that a CRAZEtian will argue for an omnipotent god is laughable and confirms pure madness! Let your god speak for itself, atheists are everywhere and doing fine!

lilliesboy:

Angry that you are stupid or angry that you are having migraine headache over a "minority world view" called atheism? The one who needs a therapist is you - the CRAZEtian who says deism is irreligion but atheism is something else. And to think that a CRAZEtian will argue for an omnipotent god is laughable and confirms pure madness! Let your god speak for itself, atheists are everywhere and doing fine!

I'm not here to discuss God with you but to correct your misconception.

Are you saying irreligion/secularism is atheism?

If atheists are doing fine, why are you so angry?

winner01:
I'm not here to discuss God with you but to correct your misconception.

Are you saying irreligion/secularism is atheism?

If atheists are doing fine, why are you so angry?

An imbec*le like you can never correct me, not when you have not even corrected your blissful stupidity. If you don't know what irreligion or secularism is than your brain is as dead as the god you believe in.