donnffd:

never see intelligence or purpose anywhere in other species, plants, planets e.t.c only humans.

We have animals that migrate , plants that respond to the changes in their environment . Isn't that a sense of purpose - survival ?

Animals can be trained to carry out specific tasks - isn't this an exhibition of intelligence .

Animals also teach their young ones how to hunt and evade being hunted - isn't that an exhibition of intelligence .

[quote author=donnffd post=48736045



I am willing to go with whatever analogy you present and work with it so let me dissect this one for you

Clap for yourself...

so the lion and tadpole see the locations as habitable due to favorable conditions but humans are not allowed to see the air, and the plants we eat as part of favorable conditions also?, we are not allowed to also be part of the circle of life (in which by the way we are)?, why cant the dog or the cat say the purpose of humans existing is for us to take care of them?, why cant the plants say the purpose of humans existing is for us to produce CO₂ for them to live longer?...

Plants and other animals work with what they have available and make the best use of it which funny enough is perfect for their existence....Man being part of the circle of life physically and having a world population of about 7.4billion partakes in the regulation of the eco system. Even science knows this why is why there is so much talk about global warming, gas flaring, endangering of certain species and all that.....The issue here is that our purpose automatically drives us while those of other creatures also automatically drives them but their limitations keeps them within certain boundaries of this purpose so stop looking for plants who would say kudos to man or cats and dogs who would write a thank you note to you because they have boundaries of intelligence. If you can talk with cats and dogs and plants please come and teach me how...i want to learn

You see, you can label purpose on anything that is beneficial to any entity, but that doesnt mean that was the real purpose or whether there was a purpose at all in the first place...

If you really were a software engineer then this statement shouldnt be coming from you. You create programs as a software engineer to what end? For fun or to serve a specific purpose? Some programs you give them the ability of carrying out multiple tasks while others have dedictated assignments so why again are you a software engineer?

Weah96:


The ordinary Nigerian needs Christianity to survive. Otherwise he or she will commit suicide. But I don't see why that is a good thing for anyone other than the political leaders and pastors. The country is a cesspool of engrained corruption and degraded infrastructure to go along with it. Life for the ordinary Nigerian is tough and difficult, not unlike the life of a Syrian currently living in Aleppo, Syria.

48 percent of the Nigeria population are Muslims and the infinitesimal percentage of the population are adherents of traditional beliefs , so why did you come up with the emboldened text .

KingEbukasBlog:


But some factitious creations of man was gotten by emulating nature . E.g robotics , artificial intelligence

Man describes his emulations as intelligently designed but rejects what is being emulated as intelligent designed ? That's blatant dishonesty !

So because we emulate nature and the eye, and create a camera which is made of metals and clogs(which cannot reproduce, is not dynamic and cant be built from smaller molecules) then the eye(which has DNA, is very dynamic, was formed slowly from smaller and simpler molecules) is automatically a designed object?

donnffd:


So because we emulate nature and the eye, and create a camera which is made of metals and clogs(which cannot reproduce, is not dynamic and cant be built from smaller molecules) then the eye(which has DNA, is very dynamic, was formed slowly from smaller and simpler molecules) is automatically a designed object?

This is the thing that you do not understand. Man and science says they know the composition of the eye with DNA and molecules and all that as you said but with all that knowledge can you show me one genetically engineered eye in flesh and blood form?

Sure we have mechanical versions but mechanical versions are not the real deal and if the real deal came from nature then we should be able to naturally recreate it since we already have all the ingredients to its existence.

We can do this mechanically so why not naturally? Man builds a mechanical version and says its intelligently done but denying that the one they copied was also intelligently done.

Is that not foolishness?

naijadeyhia:



Plants and other animals work with what they have available and make the best use of it which funny enough is perfect for their existence....Man being part of the circle of life physically and having a world population of about 7.4billion partakes in the regulation of the eco system. Even science knows this why is why there is so much talk about global warming, gas flaring, endangering of certain species and all that.....The issue here is that our purpose automatically drives us while those of other creatures also automatically drives them but their limitations keeps them within certain boundaries of this purpose so stop looking for plants who would say kudos to man or cats and dogs who would write a thank you note to you because they have boundaries of intelligence. If you can talk with cats and dogs and plants please come and teach me how...i want to learn

So you are admitting that the more you have intelligence, the more you see purpose in things...So i would ask you, how many things are as intelligent as humans? and if humans are the only ones, why is it surprising to you that we would assume purpose to everything because of our high intelligence?

If you really were a software engineer then this statement shouldnt be coming from you. You create programs as a software engineer to what end? For fun or to serve a specific purpose? Some programs you give them the ability of carrying out multiple tasks while others have dedictated assignments so why again are you a software engineer?

Please, stop comparing computer programs with the relationship living things have, its obviously mismatched.

KingEbukasBlog:



We have animals that migrate , plants that respond to the changes in their environment . Isn't that a sense of purpose - survival ?

Animals can be trained to carry out specific tasks - isn't this an exhibition of intelligence .

Animals also teach their young ones how to hunt and evade being hunted - isn't that an exhibition of intelligence .

Ok, so because a few animals with high cognitive abilities have a sense of purpose!, how does that automatically mean that the universe have a purpose?

[quote author=donnffd post=48736670]

So you are admitting that the more you have intelligence, the more you see purpose in things...So i would ask you, how many things are as intelligent as humans? and if humans are the only ones, why is it surprising to you that we would assume purpose to everything because of our high intelligence?

Wrong! What i said was every creature has its boundaries of intelligence and only functions within those boundaries in a world they know which ironically has also been perfectly arranged to meet their specific purpose.

Humans on the other hand also have their own purpose which is also with a boundary of intelligence though wider than those of other creatures but still perfectly purposed to meet our demands as well. There is a balance in everything no matter how you view it...otherwise animals would be sacking us from our homes at will.

Please, stop comparing computer programs with the relationship living things have, its obviously mismatched.

So you deny that as a computer programmer you create programs which interact with other programs in a virtual world?

naijadeyhia:


This is the thing that you do not understand. Man and science says they know the composition of the eye with DNA and molecules and all that as you said but with all that knowledge can you show me one genetically engineered eye in flesh and blood form?

Sure we have mechanical versions but mechanical versions are not the real deal and if the real deal came from nature then we should be able to naturally recreate it since we already have all the ingredients to its existence.

We can do this mechanically so why not naturally? Man builds a mechanical version and says its intelligently done but denying that the one they copied was also intelligently done.

Is that not foolishness?

But, it wasnt designed

From the day your dad's sperm fused with your moms egg, your eyes have been slowly forming...Now tell me when exactly did this "designer" come and fix that eye? or where did he do it?...

We see these thing happening in front of our eyes, sperm and egg slowly transform into a full human being, Where is the designer?, when did he do the work?... i really dont get it with you guys!

So if we call the eye what it is, why are you annoyed at us?

naijadeyhia:

Wrong! What i said was every creature has its boundaries of intelligence and only functions within those boundaries in a world they know which ironically has also been perfectly arranged to meet their specific purpose.

Humans on the other hand also have their own purpose which is also with a boundary of intelligence though wider than those of other creatures but still perfectly purposed to meet our demands as well. There is a balance in everything no matter how you view it...otherwise animals would be sacking us from our homes at will.

Perfectly arranged?...are you sure about that?

Your last statement was confusing, are you telling me that given the chance animals wont run into your house and find something to eat?, i wonder why the invented gates and fences...

Finally, we have been dancing around purpose for living things and i am still not closer to understanding how it relates to the universe as a whole.

donnffd:

Finally, we have been dancing around purpose for living things and i am still not closer to understanding how it relates to the universe as a whole.

donnffd:


But, it wasnt designed

From the day your dad's sperm fused with your moms egg, your eyes have been slowly forming...Now tell me when exactly did this "designer" come and fix that eye? or where did he do it?...

We see these thing happening in front of our eyes, sperm and egg slowly transform into a full human being, Where is the designer?, when did he do the work?... i really dont get it with you guys!

So if we call the eye what it is, why are you annoyed at us?

smh..

Nobody is annoyed with you....you have been incensed ever since we began and all i have been doing has been politely discuss with you...

The human eye is like a blueprint which keeps replicating itself from the original. Its like having a money printer that will always give you exactly what you pre-programmed into it even if you make a quadrillion copies.

You assume that we are saying that at each conception there is a tinkering and manipulation of the fetus before it is born? No

What we mean is that there is a purpose to DNA and there is a purpose to the outcome of DNA composition and these are not random..neither are they without a purpose... We could as well say there is no purpose to a Pen..is or a Vag..ina afterall without them there would be no conduit for sperm passage in humans and neither can we say there is a purpose to an egg being produced during ovulation and a sperm as tiny as it is having a homing device that homes in on the egg and the egg also being programmed to become a hard shell the moment one single sperm penetrates it and then settle itself in the womb for a function is has been designed for.

Are all these coincidental or driven by purpose?

I mean the millions of sperm released could just decide to chill and lounge within the walls of the vagi..na and play pocker or form a singing group but they do not...their single purpose is to seek out the egg and fertilize it and this they do so efficiently.

donnffd:


Perfectly arranged?...are you sure about that?

Your last statement was confusing, are you telling me that given the chance animals wont run into your house and find something to eat?, i wonder why the invented gates and fences...

Finally, we have been dancing around purpose for living things and i am still not closer to understanding how it relates to the universe as a whole.

Are you living underwater?

If you still cannot understand how our whole discussion can be linked to the purpose of the universe then i cannot push any further

..

naijadeyhia:



smh..

Nobody is annoyed with you....you have been incensed ever since we began and all i have been doing has been politely discuss with you...

The human eye is like a blueprint which keeps replicating itself from the original. Its like having a money printer that will always give you exactly what you pre-programmed into it even if you make a quadrillion copies.

You assume that we are saying that at each conception there is a tinkering and manipulation of the fetus before it is born? No

What we mean is that there is a purpose to DNA and there is a purpose to the outcome of DNA composition and these are not random..neither are they without a purpose... We could as well say there is no purpose to a Pen..is or a Vag..ina afterall without them there would be no conduit for sperm passage in humans and neither can we say there is a purpose to an egg being produced during ovulation and a sperm as tiny as it is having a homing device that homes in on the egg and the egg also being programmed to become a hard shell the moment one single sperm penetrates it and then settle itself in the womb for a function is has been designed for.

Are all these coincidental or driven by purpose?

I mean the millions of sperm released could just decide to chill and lounge within the walls of the vagi..na and play pocker or form a singing group but they do not...their single purpose is to seek out the egg and fertilize it and this they do so efficiently.

I think you should read about human reproduction, sperms dont swim efficiently to the egg, majority of them swim to different places, only the few ones that were lucky enough to swim in the direction of the egg have a chance of meeting it.

Then we cant talk about DNA and replication and purpose without diving into Evolution, which i have no strength of doing, but if you know anything about Evolution, you would understand how these illusion of design and purpose really came about through mutation and Natural selection.

naijadeyhia:


Are you living underwater?

If you still cannot understand how our whole discussion can be linked to the purpose of the universe then i cannot push any further

Are you kidding me?

is that your evidence of purpose for the UNIVERSE?

We are not living underwater?


Let me break it down for you:

- You cant live on 2/3th of the earth's surface
- you cant live on half of what remains, which means if you do your math correctly, you can only live on 1/6th of the planets surface
- The earth is just one of 8planets in our solar system, majority are far larger and can contain hundreds to thousands of earths in them.
- The sun which is a middle-sized star can contain about 100,000 earths in it
- The sun is just one of 100billion stars in our galaxy
- Our galaxy is just one of 100billion galaxies in our universe
- There are more planets in the universe than there are grinds of sand on planet earth
- The distances between two stars is freaking enormous and consists mostly of empty space


So you see my friend, 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the universe is inhospitable to human life...

where is your design and purpose in that?

[quote author=donnffd post=48737842]

I think you should read about human reproduction, sperms dont swim efficiently to the egg, majority of them swim to different places, only the few ones that were lucky enough to swim in the direction of the egg have a chance of meeting it.

I think you need to read my comment again. The efficiency part i meant was fertilization and not the swimming besides if you have any knowledge of the human reproduction then you would know that sperm cells have no eyes so swim blind which is why they sometimes swim randomly but one thing they all have is the ability to recognize the egg once they come in contact with it...They never ever try fertilizing anything else always strictly the egg that is what i meant by "inbuilt homing device.

Only 1 in 14 million of the ejaculated sperm will reach the Fallopian tube, but once there the sperm would pick up chemical signals from the egg to help them find their way forward.

The sperm finally locates the egg and push towards its shell (called the zona pellucida). Many sperm will bind to this shell, but only 1 sperm will be allowed to go all the way through to reach the egg inside and immediately this single sperm penetrates the egg the egg develops a hard shell which would keep others from equally penetrating. This right here is purpose and a definite one at that. The sperm is programmed to recognise the chemical signals from the egg and head straight for it.... I am married so i know

Then we cant talk about DNA and replication and purpose without diving into Evolution, which i have no strength of doing, but if you know anything about Evolution, you would understand how these illusion of design and purpose really came about through mutation and Natural selection.

So in all the orderliness and purpose all you still see is an illusion of purpose? I suppose you would not get married and desire Children or save up some money for a project or desire a car or eat or sleep or ensure your kids get some education or even in this scenario.....I suppose you did not register and sign onto nairaland without a purpose.

KingEbukasBlog:



48 percent of the Nigeria population are Muslims and the infinitesimal percentage of the population are adherents of traditional beliefs , so why did you come up with the emboldened text .

Because he is ignorant.

naijadeyhia:


So in all the orderliness and purpose all you still see is an illusion of purpose? I suppose you would not get married and desire Children or save up some money for a project or desire a car or eat or sleep or ensure your kids get some education or even in this scenario.....I suppose you did not register and sign onto nairaland without a purpose.

All that you have stated here are intentions, and no doubt intentions are a product of an intelligent mind, but we dont see intentions in Nature, the sperm and the egg doesnt have intentions, its not like asif it intends to make a human or of that sort...so you see why i say the comparison is mismatched

[quote author=naijadeyhia post=48738289][/quote]

Nice.

U should even ask the guy to look at those artworks in the thread post, and see if he finds purpose in the art works.

And just watch how he will dance around the bush.

donnffd:


Are you kidding me?

is that your evidence of purpose for the UNIVERSE?

We are not living underwater?


Let me break it down for you:

- You cant live on 2/3th of the earth's surface
- you cant live on half of what remains, which means if you do your math correctly, you can only live on 1/6th of the planets surface
- The earth is just one of 8planets in our solar system, majority are far larger and can contain hundreds to thousands of earths in them.
- The sun which is a middle-sized star can contain about 100,000 earths in it
- The sun is just one of 100billion stars in our galaxy
- Our galaxy is just one of 100billion galaxies in our universe
- There are more planets in the universe than there are grinds of sand on planet earth
- The distances between two stars is freaking enormous and consists mostly of empty space


So you see my friend, 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the universe is inhospitable to human life...

where is your design and purpose in that?

Chai! My comment of are you living underwater meant "are my words not connecting with you" its just an expression.

To your comment above, i have taken the liberty of highlighting some of them which you really need to be careful about when saying them.

These planets whether you believe it or not have gravitational pulls which influence each other and this influence ensures we have times and seasons and they are not random otherwise we would have 5 hour days today and 50 hour days tomorrow....There is always a cause and effect

In the universe as large as it is with all these your supposed galaxies in them would mean we have a lot of meteorites and space rocks flying everywhere but as old as science claims we are which is several billions of years old there has never been any super collision between the earth and other stars or planets and i wonder why.

You see if everything was random and the universe was random then we would have everything flying about up there without control. Let me give you a small scale example;

What happens if you put 9 small marbles in a big bowl and you shake up the bowl so all the balls would bounce around randomly? You would discover that they would bump into each other too many times to count within a very short period but for the universe this is not the case...somehow everything as large as they are are kept away from each other and only rotate and revolve in a set manner but never breaking away from that pattern due to a phenomena called gravitational pull but why do they conveniently have this pull? Why is it that no matter how we claim randomness there is always something that regulates this supposed randomness and creates order from it?

I am trying to get you to think and not just spew what you learned in school which someone else thought about for you.

donnffd:


All that you have stated here are intentions, and no doubt intentions are a product of an intelligent mind, but we dont see intentions in Nature, the sperm and the egg doesnt have intentions, ..........................................

Sorry u are wrong in that statement.

Right from the moment sperm lands in the tubes, the intentions are so clear when viewed even miscroscopically.

You are wrong sir.

donnffd:


All that you have stated here are intentions, and no doubt intentions are a product of an intelligent mind, but we dont see intentions in Nature, the sperm and the egg doesnt have intentions, its not like asif it intends to make a human or of that sort...so you see why i say the comparison is mismatched

You can relate this your comment to what i said about the blueprint of DNA and why its not a chance blueprint as it keeps reproducing what is already embedded in it. It is intention and intention breeds purpose and this was why i said earlier that

Without purpose there would be no motivation

without motivation there would be no going forward

without going forward there would be no discoveries

without discoveries there would be no essence to life and no development hence no knowledge

Intention is the blueprint.... for us we call it the WHY question. Why do i do what i do? Why am i here?

To the best of our knowledge animals may not ask themselves WHY but because their purpose is so strong they answer the WHY with their purpose so we need not ask why they do what they do once we see their purpose but for us we need to ask WHY before we can have purpose and go forward.

KingEbukasBlog:



48 percent of the Nigeria population are Muslims and the infinitesimal percentage of the population are adherents of traditional beliefs , so why did you come up with the emboldened text .

Islam means total submission to god. It is a religion that provides relief from the suffering too.

KingEbukasblog I still want to know the three atheists that have decamped.

felixomor:


Because he is ignorant.

True

naijadeyhia:


To your comment above, i have taken the liberty of highlighting some of them which you really need to be careful about when saying them.

The only crime i am guilty of is underestimating the figures...

These planets whether you believe it or not have gravitational pulls which influence each other and this influence ensures we have times and seasons and they are not random otherwise we would have 5 hour days today and 50 hour days tomorrow....There is always a cause and effect

Lol, the only bodies that affect earth gravitational are the sun and the moon...every other are either to far away or too small to make any significant difference. Then we have 24hrs has nothing to do with gravity but rather the spin of the earth. Seasons are caused by the positions of the earth in respect with the sun at different periods of its revolution.

In the universe as large as it is with all these your supposed galaxies in them would mean we have a lot of meteorites and space rocks flying everywhere but as old as science claims we are which is several billions of years old there has never been any super collision between the earth and other stars or planets and i wonder why.

Another mistake, earth has been bombarded many times, infact our oceans came from an asteroid that hit the earth 4.3 billion years ago, the dinosaurs were wiped out by an asteroid 65million years ago...you need to research all these things...

You see if everything was random and the universe was random then we would have everything flying about up there without control. Let me give you a small scale example;

What happens if you put 9 small marbles in a big bowl and you shake up the bowl so all the balls would bounce around randomly? You would discover that they would bump into each other too many times to count within a very short period but for the universe this is not the case...somehow everything as large as they are are kept away from each other and only rotate and revolve in a set manner but never breaking away from that pattern due to a phenomena called gravitational pull but why do they conveniently have this pull? Why is it that no matter how we claim randomness there is always something that regulates this supposed randomness and creates order from it?

Wow, i am surprised that you are saying this, sincerely...you are comparing the solar system with a bowl of balls?, it is obvious you dont understand how planetary bodies move, the scale and the distances in the cosmos , if you do, trust me, you wont say what you said...

I am trying to get you to think and not just spew what you learned in school which someone else thought about for you.

I think you should take your own advice...

Weah96:


Islam means total submission to god. It is a religion that provides relief from the suffering too.

This does not answer the question bro .

donnffd:


Are you kidding me?

is that your evidence of purpose for the UNIVERSE?

We are not living underwater?


Let me break it down for you:

- You cant live on 2/3th of the earth's surface
- you cant live on half of what remains, which means if you do your math correctly, you can only live on 1/6th of the planets surface
- The earth is just one of 8planets in our solar system, majority are far larger and can contain hundreds to thousands of earths in them.
- The sun which is a middle-sized star can contain about 100,000 earths in it
- The sun is just one of 100billion stars in our galaxy
- Our galaxy is just one of 100billion galaxies in our universe
- There are more planets in the universe than there are grinds of sand on planet earth
- The distances between two stars is freaking enormous and consists mostly of empty space


So you see my friend, 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the universe is inhospitable to human life...

where is your design and purpose in that?

Are you talking about human life or just life

Ranchhoddas:
KingEbukasblog I still want to know the three atheists that have decamped.

Thesixthsense , sylvalord , and one Nairalander like that

[quote author=donnffd post=48741124]

The only crime i am guilty of is underestimating the figures...

You wish!

Lol, the only bodies that affect earth gravitational are the sun and the moon...every other are either to far away or too small to make any significant difference. Then we have 24hrs has nothing to do with gravity but rather the spin of the earth. Seasons are caused by the positions of the earth in respect with the sun at different periods of its revolution.

I want to believe you read where i said the earth rotates and revolves and this causes times and seasons..so dont act ignorant. Now on to the other planets matter. Right now i can tell you that so far science has been able to identify the actual role one of the planets play to earth and this planet is Jupiter. A massive planet 1,000 times the size of earth. It stands out in the middle of the solar system like a great gravitational guardian of the earth. Many again feel that Jupiter’s great gravity protects the earth from many impacts by comets and asteroids. An example is what happened in 1994 when the twenty-two components of the comet Shoemaker-Levy 9 hit Jupiter. If such a comet would have struck the earth with that intensity as seen on Jupiter humanity might have been in serious danger. You need to do research not for the purpose of arguing ignorantly but so you would actually learn. Right now Jupiter is regarded as a "cosmic vacuum cleaner" to the earth.

Another mistake, earth has been bombarded many times, infact our oceans came from an asteroid that hit the earth 4.3 billion years ago, the dinosaurs were wiped out by an asteroid 65million years ago...you need to research all these things...

Earth is being hit by minute particles in comparison with the size of the earth and these are break away fragments from hits on other planets...consider the number of craters on the moon which though the moon is so close to the earth looks so disfigured on the surface due to the frequent asteroid impacts on it....If you were not there when a supposed massive asteroid hit the earth and caused oceans and supposedly wiped out dinosaurs then you must love scifi so much. So assuming this massive meteor wiped out dinosaurs how did it conveniently target the localized (presumably) location of dinosaurs in order to cause a total extinction? GPS? Scientific assumptions are not fact and i think you need to read that up too.

Wow, i am surprised that you are saying this, sincerely...you are comparing the solar system with a bowl of balls?, it is obvious you dont understand how planetary bodies move, the scale and the distances in the cosmos , if you do, trust me, you wont say what you said...

I studied geography and planning so know more than you think and i understand all i am saying which i am passing as free info to you. We are talking about randomness here remember?

I think you should take your own advice...

I think you should stop embarrassing yourself at this point.

KingEbukasBlog:

Thesixthsense , sylvalord , and one Nairalander like that

We did not know sixthsense as an atheist so he shouldn't count. The other name is not familiar.