"O buru na agbaghi uzo owelle mgba, na o naghi echi."

I ask again, what was the status of this Aburi conference?

-A legally binding treaty

or

-A memorandum of understanding

Andre Uweh:

Ndu chuks
Igboland is a composition of the five south east states. Secondly it comprises delta north and upland Rivers state. Third, it consist five ndoki villages in Etim Ekpo Lga Akwa Ibom, Izzi people in Okpoku Lga Benue state and finally, the seven Ika Igbo villages in Edo state.
Biafra is the old eastern Nigeria and Igbo speaking areas across the great River.
Now that your question is answered, can we now concentrate on the topic, especially here we have Max and (Dede) who are authorities in Nigerian History.

andre uweh, tank you very much for ya honest answer. i no know why others been dey fear to tell us before.

if those of them wey dey call for seccession tink say all those people for delta, rivers, and ndoki villages go join dem form biafra, dem go dey disappointed. de seccessionists wan take all de oil producing land, join dem with de land locked area, form biafra eh? how wonderful! na de same idea wey heavily contribute to de first war be dat.

i no tink say niger delta people and people from edo state go join core igbos form biafra. na pipe dream be dat.

even de leaders of igbo people namely ojukwu, ngige, soludo, and others no support seccession again. de seccessionists need to learn to work within de system to promote their causes.

maxsiollun:

1) I have read the entire Aburi report word for word, page for page verbatim. On the transcript, Lt-Col Katsina (as he then was) described in great detail how he overcame his fears and confronted murderous mobs that were killing Igbos in the north. This was after Ironsi had been murdered and all hell had broken loose (months later than the Decree 34 drama you described). Katsina's role in trying to stop the mayhem has also been referenced by other authors, and even Ojukwu himself responded to it at Aburi by saying that he refused to believe that Katsina killed anybody. There is a passage at Aburi where Katsina says that if Ojukwu knew how much he (Katsina) had tried to save Igbos, Ojukwu would give him a medal. [/b]The entire discussion about this aspect is chronicled in my book which I am not going to reproduce verbatim for you on an internet forum.

2) Katsina (in Oct 1966) also confronted the northern soldiers who mutinied in Kano. Again, consult my book for further details of this incident. Just so you know, things were so serious that the battalion commander in Kano (a northerner) fled and hid from his own troops as he was afraid of getting killed also.

3) [b]There was no "Recce Squadron Jos" as erroneously stated in your post. The 1 Recce Squadron was stationed in KADUNA. That Recce squadron was sent to deal with the Tiv insurgency in Jos because Jos was under the operational command of the 1st brigade (to which the Kaduna Recce squadron belonged).

Military units don't only execute operations in the city they are based in. They can travel too. For example, the army operation against the recent Boko Haram violence in Borno State was under the overall responsibility of Maj-Gen Saleh Maina - the General Officer Commanding (GOC) of the 3 Armoured Division, Jos. Maina was an "overseer" of the operation because it fell within his field of operation as the GOC of 3 division (he is responsible for north eastern Nigeria). The same thing happened several years earlier when Maj-Gen Buhari (as GOC of 3 Div in Jos) moved his troops to the north eastern border with Chad to deal with Chadian rebels.

4) This forum is about the free exchange of ideas and opinions. You are perfectly entitled to disagree with me. But when you do so, please refrain from using invectives and inflammatory language such as referring to my valid points as "ridiculous cr*p". There is no need to speak so rudely. If you disagree, just tell me why your point of view is better than mine without resorting to invectives. It detracts from what might otherwise be valid points that you wish to make.

It very ludicrous to read that a trained combatant officer in Major Hassan Katsina had to confront mobs of killers that consisted northern Nigerian civilians and soldiers as if he was going to quell a third grade pranks. There were 3NA, 5NA and 1st Recce Squadron, NMTC and 1st Bde stationed in northern region and yet the governor displayed nonchalant attitude towards the precarious situation faced by defenseless and innocent easterners in the hands of well armed civilians and soldiers of northern region Nigeria. I do not need to read your book because there was no instance where the military governor for northern region of Nigeria made any attempt to stop the orgy of killing in the region.

Citing the comment Ojukwu made about Katsina and the brazen display of incompetence by the army unit commanders of northern Nigerian officers would not change the fact that Katsina and those unit commanders were cohorts in the massacre of innocent southern Nigerians in general and easterners in particular.

It is very unsettling that you have attested to the fact that some unit commanders in northern region ran away from their command posts during the 1966 pogrom that took place in the northern region of Nigeria. These attitudes of unprofessionalism displayed by the officers from northern region lend credence to the fact that most of them were not even qualified to be in the army talk mush of being an officer.

There were many Tiv riots of that era and different army units were used to quell the chaos. It must be recalled that each military unit involved had to be subjected to critical examination of tribalism and political patronage by the Balewa administration. The units such 3NA, 5NA and Recce Squadron were used under the commanding officers such as Majors Onwuatuegwu, Ademoyega, Anuforo, Katsina and Lt. I. Babangida.

There was no intent to insult you in my previous post but it was all sarcasm. I apologize if you felt offended.

SapeleGuy:

"O buru na agbaghi uzo owelle mgba, na o naghi echi."

I ask again, what was the status of this Aburi conference?

-A legally binding treaty

or

-A memorandum of understanding

@SapeleGuy, I hate quoting Wikipedia, but I would do so for now:


"In international relations, MoUs fall under the broad category of treaties and should be registered in the United Nations treaty database[1]. In practice and in spite of the United Nations' Legal Section insistence that registration be done to avoid 'secret diplomacy,' MOUs are sometimes kept confidential. As a matter of law, the title of MoU does not necessarily mean the document is binding or not binding under international law. To determine whether or not a particular MoU is meant to be a legally binding document (i.e. a treaty), one needs to examine the intent of the parties and well as the position of the signatories (e.g. Minister of Foreign Affairs vs Minister of Environment). A careful analysis of the wording will also clarify the exact nature of the document. The International Court of Justice has provided some insight into the determination of the legal status of a document in the landmark case of Qatar v. Bahrain, 1 July 1994."
-Source Wikipedia[b][/b]

My understanding of the Aburi document is that is a product of a "quasi-legislative" body (in this case the Supreme Military Council of Nigeria). The wierd nature of the Accord however is evident by the fact that it was signed under an international supervision. For me, the power of enforcement should have been rendered unnecessary by the fact that lack of its enforcement  could and indeed did threaten the corporate existence of Nigeria. Patriotism was in fact the de facto enforcer of this Accord. So, when it was reneged, Igbos and Easterners felt there was no shared values or intrerests. A truly patriotic Nigerian leader would have honored that Accord. If Ojukwu could accept Gowon as leader in the interest of peace, why didn't Gowon reciprocate Ojukwu's jesture by honoring an Accord that would have saved Nigeria

@http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/news/national/2009/oct/17/national-17-10-2009-001.htm


The posted text scripts of the interview accredited to one Gen Mobolaji Johnson is the most goofy, insincere, treacherous and insensitive piece I have ever read. The war has been fought and won. This spinning job looks like a child’s play. Nigeria still has time to metamorphous into oblivion. By the same token, the backstabbers would be served with retributions.

Again, this is a match of different beats. Ojukwu agreed that Gowon should be the Head of State and commander in chief if the decision-making should rest on the SMC with no veto power to the Head of State. Also, that central and regional structure of government shall remain the same. However, this was not the case because Gowon and cohorts had already partitioned the country into states before going to Aburi, Ghana.  The show of shame displayed in Aburi, Ghana by the Nigerian side was a mere charade that amounts to despicable and deceitful demeanor that still shadow the cesspit called Nigeria till today.

Why waste time educating fools like Ndu Chuk about Igbo land when he'll come right back spewing another garbage like a fool. Don't worry about Igbos and there is nothing like core Igbo. Is there anything like core Yoruba or core Ijaw? Is there anything like core Caucassian? Freaking tribal simpletons.

nobody should take this ndu chucks guy serious, he his a thread destroyer, who hides behind other peoples identity, a weakling who asks all sorts of stupid questions and wants to identify by speaking pidgin english, he is clearly hausa and goes by the name shehu, i am being civil so i would not want to reveal the remainder of his names, you can see how stupid he his, now he wants to be allies with sapele guy. sapele guy knows ur type. like i told you some where else shehu, even your own people are getting aware of the fraud you are perpetrating on them, the long list of people your ilks lie to, is getting shorter. never seen somebody so foolish.

udezue:

Don't worry about Igbos and there is nothing like core Igbo. Is there anything like core Yoruba or core Ijaw? Is there anything like core Caucassian? Freaking tribal simpletons.

e be like say you dey bury ya head for sand like ostrich. for ya information, ijaw people, ogoni people, and others wey una talk say their land dey inside igbo land; will never tell you dat they are igbos.  if we are to accept your definition, wiwa and boro be igbo people sef. how ridiculous! 

una no fit force those people to take up your own identity and more importantly, una no go get their oil under de pretext say na igbo land de oil dey. by the way, some igbo people sef are named shehu, in case your ignorance no let you know.

@df2006, see you and ya ego. you tink say you get sense pass everyone wey dey read de posts here, eh? i have news for you, people wey dey read get enough sense to see through de non sense wey some of una dey spew for here.

no matter how hard una try, una no fit convert niger delta and old mid west into igbo land. its too late for that.

make una reign una normal abuses and insults after una run out of points, no yawa.

A. Boro and S. Wiwa are not Igbo. Igbo do not claim them. Please furnish me with facts where Igbo are claiming them. Earlier today, you thanked me for making available Igboland and Biafra.
My dear Ndu Chuks, what can you offer on the Aburi Conference?. I dey wait o.

"In international relations, MoUs fall under the broad category of treaties and should be registered in the United Nations treaty database[1]. In practice and in spite of the United Nations' Legal Section insistence that registration be done to avoid 'secret diplomacy,' MOUs are sometimes kept confidential. As a matter of law, the title of MoU does not necessarily mean the document is binding or not binding under international law. To determine whether or not a particular MoU is meant to be a legally binding document (i.e. a treaty), one needs to examine the intent of the parties and well as the position of the signatories (e.g. Minister of Foreign Affairs vs Minister of Environment). A careful analysis of the wording will also clarify the exact nature of the document. The International Court of Justice has provided some insight into the determination of the legal status of a document in the landmark case of Qatar v. Bahrain, 1 July 1994."
-Source Wikipedia[b][/b]

My understanding of the Aburi document is that is a product of a "quasi-legislative" body (in this case the Supreme Military Council of Nigeria). The wierd nature of the Accord however is evident by the fact that it was signed under an international supervision. For me, the power of enforcement should have been rendered unnecessary by the fact that lack of its enforcement could and indeed did threaten the corporate existence of Nigeria. Patriotism was in fact the de facto enforcer of this Accord. So, when it was reneged, Igbos and Easterners felt there was no shared values or intrerests. A truly patriotic Nigerian leader would have honored that Accord. If Ojukwu could accept Gowon as leader in the interest of peace, why didn't Gowon reciprocate Ojukwu's jesture by honoring an Accord that would have saved Nigeria

Good question and I admire your approach.

Let's begin with the intent and the contingencies. The international supervision was a default occurrence, made so by the location of the event. If the accord had taken place on Nigerian soil there would not have been an international supervision. So the supervision was not parceled into the objective and neither was it demanded but its consequential entry and intervention in the accord was more of a diplomatic obligation and not an initiated action for conflict resolution. The resolution was initiated, negotiated and concluded by the domestic parties involved. Hence this nullifies the need for a treaty, although a draft MoU could have assisted the cause.

Now having said that. . .if this conference had occurred post- a successful BIAFRAN secession, then this could not in anyway be classified as a domestic dispute and would have more than likely ended up as a treaty, with possibilities of legal action at the ICJ.

Andre Uweh:

My dear Ndu Chuks, what can you offer on the Aburi Conference?. I dey wait o.

my own view of de conference be say, ojukwu secured an excellent deal for his people. if he succeeded and biafra became a country, dat would have been excellent for the igbos. dat fact is not in dispute at all. we also sabi say ojukwu appeared to be more brilliant than de people wey attend the conference.

from my stand point, we no know most of what happened during the closed door meetings yet. mobolaji johnson shed some light with recent interviews. until most of what happened during those closed door aburi session come to light, i no fit judge the participants fairly. we know say federal government no follow up on their agreement with ojukwu, but i no sure say, they were legally bound to do so. they must have found out after the fact that the deal was extraordinarily lopsided.

i agree say we, as a country need to address several constitutional issues. i however,  believe say we need to do am within our established system of government. we no need to dismantle every ting in order to fix things.

those wey dey call for seccession go surely fail.

by the way, e go hard to draw a map of dis igbo land wey you describe, because de map go meander through the whole of niger delta area, old mid west, all the way to benue! correct me if i'm wrong, the igboland wey you decribe to me is different from Biafra as depicted on the map here

you tell us say boro and wiwa no be igbo, but biafra map include their land! abeg explain the discrepancy to me, sir.

Negro_Ntns:

Good question and I admire your approach.

Let's begin with the intent and the contingencies. The international supervision was a default occurrence, made so by the location of the event. If the accord had taken place on Nigerian soil there would not have been an international supervision. So the supervision was not parceled into the objective and neither was it demanded but its consequential entry and intervention in the accord was more of a diplomatic obligation and not an initiated action for conflict resolution. The resolution was initiated, negotiated and concluded by the domestic parties involved. Hence this nullifies the need for a treaty, although a draft MoU could have assisted the cause.

Now having said that. . .if this conference had occurred post- a successful BIAFRAN secession, then this could not in anyway be classified as a domestic dispute and would have more than likely ended up as a treaty, with possibilities of legal action at the ICJ.

Thanks for the further clarification. We are really saying the same thing: It was an agreement signed by Nigerians for Nigerians though witnessed by a friend of Nigeria -Ghana. This was not an International agreement. That is why I said that the intended enforcer was the "patriotic will of Nigerians" who signed it. It was supposed to answer the national question raised by the preceding bloodbath and feelings of alienation or inequality in the Nigerian inter-regional relations. The war followed because Gowon failed to honor it and instead went ahead to create states in the East which was intended to cheat the East by creating disunity. Either way you look at it, Biafra was created to keep the East united in defense of Eastern interests. It is unfortunate that some Easterners didn't understand the stakes and decided to sabotage their own interests. I really believe that Biafra could have defended Eastern interests better because there was enough human resources (population and human ingenuity) to fight in defense of the East. People like Asari Dokubo has come to that realization lately.

Negro_ntns Thank you for your answer.

Onlytruth - I don't think you are both saying the same thing, the aburi conference was a good idea but flawed due to poor execution. It was an unenforceable agreement and not worth the paper it was written on.

SapeleGuy:


Negro_ntns Thank you for your answer.

Onlytruth - I don't think you are both saying the same thing, the aburi conference was a good idea but flawed due to poor execution. It was an unenforceable agreement and not worth the paper it was written on.

@SapeleGuy

I don't know what you read into my first post about the legal grounds of Aburi. I never said it was an international agreement. There was no Biafra then, remember? It was an Accord between the East and the rest of Nigeria. The only way to enforce it was for all to continue in the spirit it was signed -solving the national question = peace and unity. The Accord was not honored (an unpatriotic act as history has shown) and that led to Biafra and the war. Aburi according to you was "not worth the paper on which it was signed" (however you came to that conclusion). For me and other Easterners, a national problem was aggravated. 42 years down the line, we are still saddled with the same problem.

So, time for you to answer my own question: How can any rational person or group sign an agreement with the Federal government of Nigeria in the future, bearing this history in mind? Why should MEND for instance sign and believe in an agreement with the government if (according to your logic, they cannot enforce it)?

@SapeleGuy

What if the FG shreds the agreement with MEND and go ahead to wipe out the delta for oil to flow? Who can force the FG to abide by the agreement? A nation that does not honor simple agreements is a dying nation.

The amnesty to which i think you refer is baseless. Nobody has the power to grant an amnesty without a conviction. So we already know the deal is bogus. I fully expect it to be broken

It has no grounding or backing from the constitution.

The Second point is that MEND have not signed up to this amnesty because they fully expect it to be broken.

Onlytruth:

@SapeleGuy

What if the FG shreds the agreement with MEND and go ahead to wipe out the delta for oil to flow? Who can force the FG to abide by the agreement? A nation that does not honor simple agreements is a dying nation.

LOL Sapele guy full of his venoms will not think about it that way. Aburi Accord handled under an Igbo man like Ojukwu is worth not respecting even when its at Niger Delta's detriment. LOL

The FG has been doing the same to his people and ND but he can't seem to link that up with what happened with Ojukwu and Biafra. Chaiii

udezue:

LOL Sapele guy full of his venoms will not think about it that way. Aburi Accord handled under an Igbo man like Ojukwu is worth not respecting even when its at Niger Delta's detriment. LOL

The FG has been doing the same to his people and ND but he can't seem to link that up with what happened with Ojukwu and Biafra. Chaiii

See comedy, out of me and you whose moniker is synonymous with venom and vitriol.

MEND realise that you can't sign agreements with people you don't trust, that was the common sense that was missing at aburi.

SAPELE
Well I guess MEND learned from the Aburi saga that you can't trust Northern Nigerians. Big ups to them and I'm happy to see Ijo ppl learning lessons and applying it. If Ojukwu, Effiong, Kogbara and the rest of the Eastern officers knew these people could not be trusted to agree to anything I'm sure they would taken a different approach but they did not know just like Boro and Wiwa didn't know their Northern friends will turn around to ambush them. You can't fault the victim and praise the criminal. There is warped about the way you reason at times but you are who u are.

SapeleGuy:

See comedy, out of me and you whose moniker is synonymous with venom and vitriol.

MEND realise that you can't sign agreements with people you don't trust, that was the common sense that was missing at aburi.

When did MEND realize that you cannot trust the rest of Nigeria?

You are coming closer to the fact that people have been making that you have been dismissing all along.

Welcome home my friend.

Ndu Chucks, we DO know what was said at Aburi:

1) The debate was tape recorded and released by Ojukwu to the public as a set of long playing gramophone records.

2) The tape was also transcribed into text and written out. The text was also released as a booklet. That booklet is still available and you may even be able to find a copy of it in your local library.

3) The Aburi agreement was publicly released as a communique. The communique is still available and is even out there on the internet!

http://www.dawodu.com/aburi1.htm

ndu_chucks:

my own view of de conference be say, ojukwu secured an excellent deal for his people. if he succeeded and biafra became a country, dat would have been excellent for the igbos. dat fact is not in dispute at all. we also sabi say ojukwu appeared to be more brilliant than de people wey attend the conference.

from my stand point, we no know most of what happened during the closed door meetings yet. mobolaji johnson shed some light with recent interviews. until most of what happened during those closed door aburi session come to light, i no fit judge the participants fairly. we know say federal government no follow up on their agreement with ojukwu, but i no sure say, they were legally bound to do so. they must have found out after the fact that the deal was extraordinarily lopsided.

i agree say we, as a country need to address several constitutional issues. i however,  believe say we need to do am within our established system of government. we no need to dismantle every ting in order to fix things.

those wey dey call for seccession go surely fail.

by the way, e go hard to draw a map of dis igbo land wey you describe, because de map go meander through the whole of niger delta area, old mid west, all the way to benue! correct me if i'm wrong, the igboland wey you decribe to me is different from Biafra as depicted on the map here

you tell us say boro and wiwa no be igbo, but biafra map include their land! abeg explain the discrepancy to me, sir. 

Afam:

When did MEND realize that you cannot trust the rest of Nigeria?

You are coming closer to the fact that people have been making that you have been dismissing all along.
Welcome home my friend.

Sure is.

Quote from: maxsiollun on October 16, 2009, 12:41 PM
Guys just a few points:

1) Lt-Col Arthur Unegbe was an Igbo officer from Ozubulu in Anambra State. He was murdered by the Jan 1966 coup plotters. This has nothing to do with him refusing to hand over any weapons. At the time of the coup he was the Quartermaster-General of the army and thus did not have control of any weapons stores.

2) Lt-Col Katsina was not in charge of the 1st Recce Squadron when it was used to suppress the Tiv riots. Major Anuforo was in charge of the 1st Recce Squadron at the time and his anger at being ordered to shoot Tiv protesters was one factor that pushed him to take part in the coup.

3) Lt-Col Katsina actually risked his life to save Igbos during the bloody pogroms of 1966. He personally confronted some of the murderous mobs in order to stop them from killing Igbos.



Major Chris Anuforo was commander of Recce Squadron Jos. The premier of northern region of Nigeria requested that both army and police deal ruthlessly with the rioters, mainly Tiv, who were the supporters of the UMBC. Instead, Major Chris Anuforo ordered the soldiers and police to arrest the supporters of NPC and release all the Tiv rioters arrested.

The premier felt shunned by the young Major and sought the help of the 1st Brigade commander, Brigadier Samuel Ademulegun, to transfer Major Chris Anuforo out of 1st Recce Squadron to 2nd Recce Squadron, Abeokuta then Army HQ, Lagos. In place of Major Anuforo was Major Katsina as commander of 1st Recce Squadron that saw the massacre of Tiv people during riot of 1964.

The link below would corroborate that Major Hassan Katsina was the commander of 1st Recce Squadron, Jos, even though the article indicated Kaduna.

http://www.dawodu.com/katsina1.htm

"Initially a platoon commander in the 2nd Battalion, he was later reposted to the demonstration platoon at the NMTC in Kaduna, as commander. " In 1961, he served in the Congo as an Intelligence officer. The following year, in 1962, he underwent further advanced infantry training in the United States after which he became company commander in the 5th Battalion of the Nigerian Army in Kano. When the Recce unit of the Army was created, Hassan was among the earliest Nigerians to be trained in Britain on the use of "Ferrets" in armored reconnaissance warfare, the others being Majors Christian Anuforo and John Obienu. As of the night of January 14/15 1966, Hassan was commanding the 1 Recce Squadron in Kaduna, while Obienu was commanding the 2 Recce squadron in Abeokuta, and Anuforo was the staff officer representing Recce interests at the Army HQ in Lagos.”


Is this not hypocrisy on your part Dede? You criticised me for using arguments that are shared and were recorded by Nowa because you wanted to prove at all cost that Ogundipe was a coward yet you quote Nowa here to corroborate an account that supports an assertion made by you. You claimed on this thread that Nowa is not a credible historian; if he isn't, why are you quoting his literature?

The North felt that they should not sit down and watch the development like that. The cream of the elite of their officers was killed. Yoruba lost Shodeinde and Ademulegun, who were killed. So, it was in retaliation that the people carried out the second round of the coup. Before the second coup there was a rumour about it. There was so much distrust. You don’t know who was who. It was in that atmosphere that the second coup happened. That was what brought Gowon to power. He was the only senior northern army officer available. Martins Adamu and Danjuma said he was the only one they could take orders from. So, they struck.

There is the story that one Brigadier Ogundipe was next in rank to Ironsi and Ojukwu insisted he should be the next head of state after Ironsi, but that he ran away.
Well, he did not run away. That man sacrificed his career for the unity of Nigeria. He sacrificed his rank and status for peace in this country. I say this because I was present that day at Obalende police headquarters when Ogundipe opened the window and asked us to look outside. He told us to look at the killings going on, saying that it must stop. He talked to a few of us because the boys were at Ikeja cantonment. We were just talking by telephone. Ojukwu was talking from the East, saying that he (Ogundipe) shouldn’t allow it and that by status he should be the next head of state since they could not find Ironsi. Ogundipe said they must stop the killing and that there must be peace in the country. He said if he were going to be an impediment to peace, he would leave the country. He said he would sacrifice his career and leave the country, so that there would be peace. He said if that was the sacrifice he had to make, he would. He didn’t run away.

So, it is true Ojukwu insisted he should be the next head of state?
Ojukwu said that he should be the next head of state if Ironsi was not found. He was sitting down there in the East not knowing what was going on in Lagos. Ogundipe said that he had to sacrifice his career and Ojukwu was saying that he should be head of state and not Gowon. Ojukwu and Gowon were of the same rank. So, Ojukwu said it shouldn’t be anybody from the North. But the northern boys, who staged the counter coup, said that is the only man they could take orders from was Gowon. That was it.


Thanks for posting this. When I gave an opinion based on various sources that Ogundipe did not run, I was attacked by certain posters, Dede in particular, because he was bent on proving that Ogundipe was a coward and the Yoruba people are generally cowards. Some people just have selected vision and reasoning; an argument can only be credible to them if it is shared by them.

maxsiollun:

Ndu Chucks, we DO know what was said at Aburi:

1) The debate was tape recorded and released by Ojukwu to the public as a set of long playing gramophone records.

2) The tape was also transcribed into text and written out. The text was also released as a booklet. That booklet is still available and you may even be able to find a copy of it in your local library.

3) The Aburi agreement was publicly released as a communique. The communique is still available and is even out there on the internet!

http://www.dawodu.com/aburi1.htm

maxsiollun, thank you sir for the information above.

de problem wey i get be say, i no find de recordings or transcripts of de closed door meetings(at the so-called inner room) wey mobolaji johnson talked about in his recent interview. i really would like to see those transcripts, so if you know where dem dey, book or web site, i go appreciate de information.

de tings wey dey undisputed be say, aburi agreement was entered into, federal government reneged on de agreement, and we don fight civil war since then.

as a world renowned historian, how you tink say we fit, as a country, escape from the conundrum of post civil war failure?  personally i no tink say seccession go work, dat go just lead to another war wey go dey more deadly than the first one.

de ting wey i no dey hear from people be postulations or suggestions as to, how we fit take our country to the next level. what are your thoughts on this issue?

ndu_chucks:

maxsiollun, thank you sir for the information above.

de problem wey i get be say, i no find de recordings or transcripts of de closed door meetings wey mobolaji johnson talked about in his recent interview. i really would like to see those transcripts, so if you know where dem dey, book or web site, i go appreciate de information.

de tings wey dey undisputed be say, aburi agreement was entered into, federal government reneged on de agreement, and we don fight civil war since then.

as a world renowned historian, how you tink say we fit, as a country, escape from the conundrum of post civil war failure? personally i no tink say seccession go work, dat go just lead to another war wey go dey more deadly than the first one.

de ting wey i no dey hear from people be postulations or suggestions as to, how we fit take our country to the next level. what are your thoughts on this issue?

You hit the nail on the head there. I generally do not post on this forum but I have posted a lot on this thread and I think that this may be my last in the politics section. The reason why I posted in the first place was because I noticed a lot of posters talking about secession, beating war drums, and attacking other tribes for problems in their region when we are faced with the same problems and issues. I made the point initially but it was ignored for whatever reasons.

The fact is that:
Yoruba political leaders have failed their constituents, Igbo leaders have failed their constituents, and the same is true of every other tribe. Why are we talking about issues that happened a long time ago when we are being failed by our local government councillors, Chairmen, Governors, House members and Senators.

When we have examined the issues at a societal level, then we have to examine ourselves as individuals. Many of the actors in the 60s and 70s are dead but the situation is not getting better even with a different set of actors. That leads to the conclusion that I have held for a long time: Nigerians are to blame for the problems in Nigeria and not leaders because leaders are selected from Nigerians. Breaking Nigeria up will not solve anything because leaders will not suddenly stop being corrupt, become altruistic and develop vision.

@Duduknight


You are yet to learn the intrigues involved in correspondence. Whenever you are using someone’s work in essay, you must try to give credit to the originator of such idea even if the originator is credible or not.

I have remained one of the critics of Nowa Omogiue methods in presenting facts because a blind man could see whose interest the esteem writer seemed to serve. By the same token, I had also praised the job Nowa did while providing the window of opportunity to many people to understand the era of pre and post 1966 saga in the colonial contraption known as Nigeria.

The civil war has been fought and won. The skewing of the history of Nigeria in order to justified misguided steps by those who would have ordinarily work with Ndigbo for the betterment of the cesspit called Nigeria is naive politically.

Brigadier B. Ogundipe showed a classic unprofessional demeanor that was unbecoming of a soldier during the July 29, 1966 countercoup. It is not for me to judge what informed his decision to run but it was certainly not about Yoruba lacking in the number of soldiers in Nigeria army. Believe me, other than eastern region of Nigeria and Ndigbo in particular, western region of Nigeria had the best group of army officers in Nigerian army of 1966.

In less than six month of Brig. Ogundipe’s scampering to Dahomey, the Yoruba officers and NCOs constituted the main bulk of not only 2nd Division of Nigerian army but owned the 3rd Marine Commando Division of Nigerian army. If Lt. Col. F Fajuiyi was not purposefully eliminated by the perpetrators of July 29, 1966 coup, there would have been no place for most of the political shenanigans spreading all over the cesspit called Nigeria today.

Dede1:

@Duduknight


You are yet to learn the intrigues involved in correspondence. Whenever you are using someone’s work in essay, you must try to give credit to the originator of such idea even if the originator is credible or not.

I have remained one of the critics of Nowa Omogiue methods in presenting facts because a blind man could see whose interest the esteem writer seemed to serve. By the same token, I had also praised the job Nowa did while providing the window of opportunity to many people to understand the era of pre and post 1966 saga in the colonial contraption known as Nigeria.

The civil war has been fought and won. The skewing of the history of Nigeria in order to justified misguided steps by those who would have ordinarily work with Ndigbo for the betterment of the cesspit called Nigeria is naive politically.

Brigadier B. Ogundipe showed a classic unprofessional demeanor that was unbecoming of a soldier during the July 29, 1966 countercoup. It is not for me to judge what informed his decision to run but it was certainly not about Yoruba lacking in the number of soldiers in Nigeria army. Believe me, other than eastern region of Nigeria and Ndigbo in particular, western region of Nigeria had the best group of army officers in Nigerian army of 1966.

In less than six month of Brig. Ogundipe’s scampering to Dahomey, the Yoruba officers and NCOs constituted the main bulk of not only 2nd Division of Nigerian army but owned the 3rd Marine Commando Division of Nigerian army. If Lt. Col. F Fajuiyi was not purposefully eliminated by the perpetrators of July 29, 1966 coup, there would have been no place for most of the political shenanigans spreading all over the cesspit called Nigeria today.

You do not know me, yet you are bent on portraying me in bad light. Did I quote Nowa word for word or did I lift a section of a literature written by him. I merely gave an account based on various eye witness accounts. You are free to discount Nowa's or anyone else's account but this is just a forum for sharing ideas. I do not have to give a bibliography for everything I say here. Afterall, most of us were either not around or too young to know what really happened. So we are reliant on other people's account.

While there were Yoruba officers in the armed forces during that era, they were still outnumbered by South-Eastern and Northern officers. For NCOs, they were completely outnumbered. One of the conditions Ojukwu gave Gowon in the weeks leading to the war was that, Northern units should be moved out of Lagos and that a recruitment exercise should be carried out to recruit Yoruba personnel to occupy positions vacated by re-assigned Northern units.

How did you come to the conclusion that Ndigbo had the best officers in the Army? Were there no Ndigbo officers in the Biafran Army? You are going to tell me now that they lost not because they were not the best but for other reasons. I do not know or care about which tribe had the best officers because they were all supposed to serve the Nigerian entity.

You continue to hammer on about Ogundipe running away like a coward but at least he did not lead his people into war only to run away when defeat stared him in the face. Who is the real coward here? Ogundipe or Ojukwu? You are wont to believe what you want about Ogundipe and I choose to believe the version that because of the incidents of January and July 1966, it was impossible for him to lead the Army and the country as a whole. This is where we disagree. But we all know that Ojukwu RAN and abandoned his people, leaving Effiong to handover to Obasanjo. Could he not fight to the end like a soldier or accept defeat and surrender himself? Afterall, he was a soldier.

I leave it to others to judge who the real COWARD is here because we will not agree on this.

I apologise to anyone who may be offended by this digression from the main topic.

The only part of the Aburi debate that was NOT tape recorded was the part where Gowon revealed what happened to Ironsi. The only people who heard this part of the debate were the military officers. The microphones were switched off, and the officers went in to an inner room where Gowon told everyone the full grisly details of what happened to Ironsi. They did not want that part of the debate being tape recorded. It was a highly emotive issue at the time and perhaps they did not want to record grisly detailsof Ironsi and Fajuyi being murdered.

ndu_chucks:

maxsiollun, thank you sir for the information above.

de problem wey i get be say, i no find de recordings or transcripts of de closed door meetings(at the so-called inner room) wey mobolaji johnson talked about in his recent interview. i really would like to see those transcripts, so if you know where dem dey, book or web site, i go appreciate de information.

de tings wey dey undisputed be say, aburi agreement was entered into, federal government reneged on de agreement, and we don fight civil war since then.

as a world renowned historian, how you tink say we fit, as a country, escape from the conundrum of post civil war failure?  personally i no tink say seccession go work, dat go just lead to another war wey go dey more deadly than the first one.

de ting wey i no dey hear from people be postulations or suggestions as to, how we fit take our country to the next level. what are your thoughts on this issue?

maxsiollun:

The only part of the Aburi debate that was NOT tape recorded was the part where Gowon revealed what happened to Ironsi. The only people who heard this part of the debate were the military officers. The microphones were switched off, and the officers went in to an inner room where Gowon told everyone the full grisly details of what happened to Ironsi. They did not want that part of the debate being tape recorded. It was a highly emotive issue at the time and perhaps they did not want to record grisly detailsof Ironsi and Fajuyi being murdered.

Thanks again.

abeg, you fit comment on my question?

as a world renowned historian, how you tink say we fit, as a country, escape from the conundrum of post civil war failure? personally i no tink say seccession go work, dat go just lead to another war wey go dey more deadly than the first one.

No problem Chucks. I didn't intentionally ignore your question. I try to be a provider of info rather than shape opinion/provide know it all solutions. Also, I have had some bad experiences of my words being deliberately misconstrued and taken out of context by some unscrupulous elements. So these days I try to provide info and leave the reader to make up their own mind.

ndu_chucks:

Thanks again.

abeg, you fit comment on my question?

maxsiollun:

No problem Chucks. I didn't intentionally ignore your question. I try to be a provider of info rather than shape opinion/provide know it all solutions. Also, I have had some bad experiences of my words being deliberately misconstrued and taken out of context by some unscrupulous elements. So these days I try to provide info and leave the reader to make up their own mind.

i understand - your point is well taken. na only suggestions wey i dey look for, but knowning ya status as an internationally renowned historian, people fit indeed take your suggestion out of context. if you be faceless internet commentator, i guess de tory for different.

i appreciate ya courtesy. you sir, are a gentleman deserving of much respect.

maxsiollun:

No problem Chucks. I didn't intentionally ignore your question. I try to be a provider of info rather than shape opinion/provide know it all solutions. Also, I have had some bad experiences of my words being deliberately misconstrued and taken out of context by some unscrupulous elements. So these days I try to provide info and leave the reader to make up their own mind.

The content in bold refers, I agree completely that what we know ourselves and the reading public is to provide accurate information and let the readers form an opinion based on the facts on the ground.

Misunderstandings become too heated when

1. The poster wants to shape someone else's opinion or influence it

2. The reader thinks the information provider is trying to convince, influence or force an opinion on him/she.

We should learn to provide factual information and let the reading public make up their minds based on the facts presented.