sorry na him english i dey talk.psssh!

@bountyxs: One human fallacy, theologically speaking, is to think that one can reason out the nature and causes of everything, including the possibilities and/or purposes and wisdom of a divine God that yourself, or someone else, believes in. If you could do that, then you wouldn't be a human being. You would be one-kinda-god too. But even at that, there will still be a form of hierarchy and the god-that-you-are will have to defer in respect to another god or the other (if there was no such hierarchy, chaos would be the order of the day, Im sure you know that). Therefore, when there is hierarchy, someone has to be at the pinnacle of the gods. The most supreme, ensuring that things go according to THE PLAN.

Now, tell me, as a human being, can you, at once, see all the sides of a cube (not the net layout, but a solid form)? Since you cannot, would it indeed be wise/foolish for a human being to see some of a cube's sides (most probably three), and thus conclude that the cube has only three sides, and that whoever says it has six sides is definitely a liar? I do not deem such a judgment to be sound, rather it is inadmissible.

I have to say that in the case of unsure conclusions due to a perceived lack of completeness of evidence, good judgment would involve careful observation of all other possible perspectives.

Following your reasoning above, it is not apparent that you have considered all possible perspectives. However, I do not feel like arguing with you. I'm just expressing my views. Best Regards.

@mavenbox,i thank u 4 showin some courtesy that's a priceless commodity on nairaland.But the truth is to be told,not to be sold.First,note that I didn't write it,I only pasted it from http://newageofreason..But in my own lil way,wat u claim of imminent chaos in d case of 2 Gods is a Qur'anic statement.I've never put human reason @ per wit divine legistlation but i've always maintained that pure human reason denounces d trinity & some of ur doctrines.It's enough that u acknowledged d supremacy of a God over say some gods.But again,ur 3 sides of a cube analogy drives home my points.We see 3 sides,but we know it's got 6 by nature.Similarly,we know by nature that God is absolutely one and making a trinity out of Him or a part of it just because that's what we've been taught and it SHOULDN'T be questioned is intrinsically,for the sake of a better word, stupid.

[size=13pt]I feel relax now you have testified how the christian Bible is very Dangerous book to read. Yes, Mavenbox. . . i have finally learn't something about you.peherps you would say my statements are self indicting but refuse to read my previous post. . . .Ok, see what i mean. If really you said the christian bible make sense then you must be something else i tell you. ok i have said the bible doesn't make sense but you disagree with me so i need you to explain me what really makes sense inside such book, with regards.[/size]

mavenbox:

Of all the ninnyhammer you just said, the only thing I agree with is

OF COURSE THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE IS DANGEROUS, AND THOSE WHO CAN'T STAND THE HEAT NEED TO STAY OUT OF THE KITCHEN! OF COURSE I AGREE! I KNOW HOW DANGEROUS THE BIBLE IS, AND I PUT IT TO GOOD USE EVERY SINGLE DAY.

Lmao. Your statements are self-indicting.

I never asked you to read the Bible, I only hope you find the truth before doom befalls you.

[size=13pt]ooo my goodness, can this be another abuzola from the one i know. . . ?. ^{draw near him and give handshake} , man how you doing. . . i think one of your name sake have been my friend here and believe me , he has alway shared by applying the modern ways of conversation but the strange thing is that these couple of days i hardly meet him online. . . .Well , Abuzola999 i like your name and hope you're going to enjoy sharing with dudes here.[/size]

@Ogaga: It makes as much sense as it is dangerous to handle, just like a high-power scientific tool in the hands of him who knows how to use it. If it doesn't make sense to you, it simply means you do not know how to use it. It's so easy.
P.S. It's the same Abuzola. He has been banned so many times for contempt and rile, and now he has to create new identities often (almost every day).

@Bountyxs: I never heard of the Qur'anic statement of imminent chaos with 2 gods. But, by the way, the Trinity talk is a complex thing, and I will only attempt a simple logical explanation.

The so-called "Trinity" is not THREE Gods. It is THREE People, that, together, like a jigsaw puzzle, make ONE God. Each of them may be referred to as God, but each one is GOD in conjunction with thee others. Let me illustrate. Eight men on the Olympic 200 metres, and three of them come in first AT THE SAME TIME, say 9.83 seconds. That is a simple perspective on the trinity. The Three persons of the "Father", the "Son" and the "Spirit" are God at once.

As I already said, I am learning not to argue on Nairaland. I'm just presenting my perspectives.

[size=13pt]mavenbox dear Believer,I do not accept the Bible as God’s word because it contains thousand of errancies and contradictions that can not be solved, only rationalized. I refuse to accept Jesus as my personal savior, for his behavior and teachings often expose one who should be escaped and not worshipped. I ask that you read this pamphlet in light of the bible’s teachings; Christians should be “open to reason” (James 3:17), that we should “reason together” (Isaiah 1:18) and “he who hates correction will die” (Proverbs 15:10) to understand my perspective that the bible has MANY shortcomings.

*According to your Bible I am to believe that human kind is sinful for Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge. Why are we being punished for the original sin? After all, they ate the forbidden fruit, we didn’t. Reason would lead one to say it’s their problem, not ours. Even the bible contradicts itself by claiming in Deuteronomy 24:16, “children shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers.”

*Heaven is supposed to be a perfect place. It is of course, the place you strive for and name “salvation”. Yet, it experienced a war (Revelation 12:7). How can there be a war in a perfect place and if it happened before why couldn’t it happen again? Why would I want to go to a place in which war can occur? That’s exactly what I’m trying to escape, aren’t you?

*We are told salvation is obtained by faith alone (John 3:18 & 36) and then the Bible claims that it is repentance that shall save us (2 Peter 3:9) yet Jesus told a man to follow the Commandments-Matthew 19:16-1 8 (saving by works)-if he wanted eternal life. So which way is it and how do you know your belief is the correct one?

Well, i do not feel im attacking Christianity. no no im only pointing out dangerous errors from your bible, the words of a living god. so, likewise im here to expose the secret of religionism.
[/size]

[size=13pt]So this is you Abuzola with another user ID?, wait a munite friend did you mean BANNED or you lost your privillage to post?. Let me know if you can still log in with the abuzola ID .[/size]

abuzola999:

Its me abuzola, they ban me for exposing the truth

abuzola999:

Its me abuzola, they ban me for exposing the truth

@Ogaga, i think its the one Jesus said that we have to follow i.e salvation by works not anything from anybody like paul and co that preaches FAITH and GRACE,

[size=13pt]uplawal i dont Understand what you mean. . . . . . . please explain me.[/size]

As in you can only get salvation through works as in GOOD DEEDS, and belief in ONEGOD by Jesus,also and his last messenger,confirming previous prophets,cos is what even Jesus preached that muslims are doing and the xtians are following Paul that only taught on grace and faith / they practice lawlessness.


SO THEREFORE,CHRISTIANS ARE LAWLESS PEOPLE

@mavenbox. Do u mean thats all 3 are on the same level?If that's what you mean, then they are 3 gods undeniably.If 1 is greater than the rest, then others become smaller deities and you become like the Ogun worshipper.

@bountyxs: No, they are not three. It is a very complicated matter, but let me try to afford another perspective: There is Mavenbox the upcoming programmer, who spends a lot of time online on social networking sites like nairaland. There is Mavenbox the family person who cares about her family. There is Mavenbox the engineer who carries out official duties for hours on end. Are they different people? No, they are not. It's the one same person, whose various attributes make various people perceive her in various dimensions. It does not multiply my personality into three! I hope you understand, but as I said earlier, there are few things that are totally spiritual and can be explained away physically.

THERE IS NO SINGLE CONTRADICTION IN THE BIBLE
I can say this because I read it with understanding and thoroughly too, not picking one part and slapping it against another, forgetting that, lets come to logical normal human reasoning
Do you know how my hundreds of years the bible has been existing, in its present form? Do you know that according to history, that is the most persecuted book ever, most destroyed ever? Do you know that it is the singular most studied item by the widest range of intellectuals ever?
My friend, the bible has not survived all these years because it is believed in by fanatics or that some group have stubbornly refused to let it die out, it's because every single jot written therein is Infallible!!! By anyone under any logical circumstances!

@mavenbox.U r intelligent, I have to admit.But matter of fact, you just can't explain this.Now, wishing this is the last explanation I give on this, cus NL seems to get a lotta your time if you don't watch it.The programmer , the family woman and the Engineer.All one.Agreed.Now, in a simple yes or no answer, when one of them dies( I don't pray you do now and I'm damn sorry for this illustration anyway), do the other two keep living?@ least they will be dead for 3 days before resurrection.Before she wakes up, what will the others be?Means 3 gods - 1 god.See, plainly, if u ascribe to this thought you profess above, it simply leads to the inevitable conclusion that the rest are demi gods- same thing that the Ogun and Oshun worshippers say. All in all, u really tried , only that THERE IS NO WAY OUT!
My yahoo handler is heblazing213.You may hit me up. i wish to talk to you.Thanks for not being rude in explaining your point.If only others could be like this, NL religion forum will be a place to learn about other people's faith and belief system.Take care anyway.

@uplawal, whenever i read your post it makes me laugh , are you telling us we should put the judgment into our hands or maintain the law impose by God and face the punishment carry out by human then if that it's possible God is not capable of being supreme , how can HE be a law giver but HE can't execute it by himself but let the human carry out the judgment does it make sense to how powerful HE IS huh ah ah well that it's for your Allah he can't do anything. there are Allah warriors , who are those , THE TERRORISTS . shame on Allah . but the God, YAHWEH is capable of doing everything , HE never need any help from his creations to wage war against HIS enemy . in the time of Noah who assisted him to dealt with them huh allah can't do on it's own that it's why promote your religion by war . against the innocent men, if you don't know read how the islam entered into these countries SENEGAL, MOROCCO , ALGERIA, EGYPT , ETHIOPIA, MALI,GHANA,LIBYA and so many countries in Africa , if your allah is merciful why did it do that to people . ALLAH IS RUTHLESS .the example is the one happening in northern part of Nigeria and please don't tell me that koran do not support that i mean killing of non- muslims if you, i will quote it out of your koran.

jcross22:

@uplawal, whenever i read your post it makes me laugh , are you telling us we should put the judgment into our hands or maintain the law impose by God and face the punishment carry out by human then if that it's possible God is not capable of being supreme , how can HE be a law giver but HE can't execute it by himself but let the human carry out the judgment does it make sense to how powerful HE IS huh ah ah well that it's for your Allah he can't do anything. there are Allah warriors , who are those , THE TERRORISTS . shame on Allah . but the God, YAHWEH is capable of doing everything , HE never need any help from his creations to wage war against HIS enemy . in the time of Noah who assisted him to dealt with them huh allah can't do on it's own that it's why promote your religion by war . against the innocent men, if you don't know read how the islam entered into these countries SENEGAL, MOROCCO , ALGERIA, EGYPT , ETHIOPIA, MALI,GHANA,LIBYA and so many countries in Africa , if your allah is merciful why did it do that to people . ALLAH IS RUTHLESS .the example is the one happening in northern part of Nigeria and please don't tell me that koran do not support that i mean killing of non- muslims if you, i will quote it out of your koran.

TRUE TALK

THEN WHO IS THIS ALLAH:yerah - The Moon God of Canaan
In the 1950's a major temple to the moon-god was excavated at Hazor in Palestine. Two idols of the moon-god were found. Each was a statue of a man sitting upon a throne with a crescent moon carved into his chest (below left). The accompanying inscriptions make it clear that these were idols of the moon-god (below right). The worship tablet found at the same sight shows arms outstretched towards the Moon-god here represented by the full moon within the crescent moon. Several smaller statues were also found which were identified by their inscriptions as the daughters of the moon-god.
and the uncovered a temple of the moon-god in southern Arabia. The symbols of the crescent moon and no less than 21 inscriptions with the name Sîn were found in this temple.

Jcross.Really I hate joining issues with you and I make again to say that Mavenbox is a exceedingly more intelligent than you. About Allaah carrying out his laws not by Himself?Do you ponder at all?Do you think about the fallacy of the Christian doctrine of God sending His son to come and die in order that man be saved?How reasonable is that?Why didn't that god of yours who can't do it right from where he is or was have to send a man to come and die unjustly for what he didn't do?And about the silly pictures you posted, it all goes to show your ignorance.First,Muslims don't have a symbol.The moon star is not representative of Islam, rather it is the flagship of Turkey ( and that;s the only ascription it has had to anything Muslim).I can give you more than 10 illustrations that shows that christianity got its lame doctrines from pagan religions.The striking example is Christmas.Now wait,
I sure will be back with a bombshell yo never thought of.

I've always said: anyone who reads Moshay shouldn't come on here and be regurgitating lies.Learn about Islam before you talk about it.Your copy and paste won't take you nowhere, U go don feel say u donm hammer wit ur yeye copy copy, olodo.A challenge, name one Islamic doctrine that has a pagan origin ( and substantiate it with evidence) and I'll name 5 Christian doctrines sourced from paganism.

@bounty, HA AH AH IT PAINS YOU I CAN SEE THAT FROM YOUR POST , WELL THAT CAN'T STOP ME TO REVEAL THE TRUTH . FOR THE CASE GOD SENDING HIS SON , JESUS CAME TO SHOW US THE WAY RIGHT WAY B,COS WE HAVE MOVE ASTRAY THAT WAS THE REASON IF YOU ARE ADAMANT ABOUT JESUS DO YOUR KORAN REFER THE BIRTH OF CHRIST AS OR DO YOUR KORAN DENY THE BIRTH OF CHRIST? AH AHA H AND FOR SYMBOL ALL THE MOSQUE IN THE WORLD HAVE THAT AT TOP OF THE ROOF OF THEIR MOSQUES AND IF MY READERS ARE TRYING TO BE CONFUSED TO KNOW WHO IS LIEING BETWEEN ME AND BOUNTY CHECK THE TOP OF YOUR MOSQUE YOU WILL KNOW WHAT AM TALKING ABOUT . I WILL NEVER DENY ALMIGHTY JESUS TO GAIN A REMARK FROM YOU BUT RATHER EXPOSE OF THE FLAW IN THAT BOOK OF THE POEMS .and for the pictures you are posting what does mean what are trying to do with that , that pictures i posted was the ARCHEOLOGICAL FACT OF WHO ALLAH IS SO WHAT IS YOURS.
'

AM HERE NOT HEAR TO ABUSE YOUR RELIGION BUT AM HERE TO LET THE READER TO KNOW WHAT THEY CHOSE AS WAY LIFE IS IT RIGHT OR WRONG , AM NOT TO HAVE ANY DISPUTE WITH YOU. MUSLIMS CLAIMED THAT KORAN HAS EXISTED DURING THE TIME OF MOHAMMAD BUT STILL THERE IS NO ARCHEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE TO SUBSTANTIATE THEIR PROOF AND IF YOU TELL ME THAT IT WAS NOT WRITTEN DOWN DURING TIME OF WANNABE PROPHET THEN REMEMBER THAT 400 SOLDIERS WERE KILLED ON THE BATTLEFIELD OF BAD'R WAR THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW THE KORAN WITH THEIR HEART. SO PLEASE HOW DID THEY COME ABOUT THE EXISTING KORAN, NO ARCHEOLOGY DIGGING THAT PROOF AUTHENTIC OF THE KORAN.EVERYTHING IS EASY FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW THE TRUTH WHEN THERE ARE ALOTS OF ENGLISH VERSION OF KORAN ALL OVER THE PLACE , TIME IS COMING THAT MUSLIMS WILL CLAIMED THAT THE ENGLISH VERSION OF KORAN IS CORRUPTED.

@bountyxs,FORGET ABOUT SOMEONE READING THE MOSHAY OR NOT MORSHAY AM FREE MAN TO LEARN WHAT I DON'T KNOW I THINK EVERYTHING IS EASY SINCE WE HAVE ENGLISH KORAN AND ENGLISH HADITH SO FROM THEIR I THINK THAT IT'S STARTING POINT TO KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT YOUR RELIGION.

@bountyxs, ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah I CAN SEE THAT IT REALLY PAINS YOU BUT TAKE IT EASY OKAY THAT IGNORANCE AND AGGRESSIVENESS CAN TAKE YOU NO WHERE OKAY TAKE IT EASY AND LEARN . FOR THE CASE PAGAN DOCTRINE OF MUSLIMS I WILL SHOW YOU HERE WITH ARCHEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE , LET ME REFER YOU TO THOSE PICTURES I PASTED ABOVE WAS FOUND IN THE ARCHEOLOGICAL DIGGING WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU, AND WHO IS ALLAH , ALLAH IS IT A TRUE GOD?PLEASE CAN AN INTELLECTUAL HUMAN BEING MAKE A COMMENT ON THIS SURAH Qur'an 21:36 WHICH SAYS "When the unbelievers see you they make fun of you, mocking you, ridiculing you. They say, 'Is this the one WHO MENTION YOUR gods.' They would deny all mention of Ar-Rahman!". WHO IS MENTIONING gods THEIR? WHICH gods ARE THEY MENTIONING IN THAT VERSE.

@bountyxs:

If I may come in for Mavenbox (I hope she doesn't mind) - another allegory to the issue of 1 as 3 (some prefer to call it 3 in 1 which I believe is wrong) is the following:

[1] You are reading from me now   (Word)
[2] If I telephone you, you're hearing me (Audial)
[3] If I were to visit you, you'd see me (Physical)

But I remain the same ONE person. When you ask about one of the three dying, imagine me as it were, dropping the phone.You'd know I'm still alive (simply because you believe my dropping the phone didn't kill me) and you could still read what I wrote. So one of the three manifestations is gone but only because I dropped the phone.

I hope this helped somewhat

@nuclearboy: Yeah, man!!! I'm just visiting this thread again, and you got it locked down perfectly!!!

One as three, and not Three in One.

God bless you, nuclearboy.

@bountyxs: I guess you understand better now?

Eli Eli lama sabachthani. Was he praying to himself?

@mavenbox and nuclearboy pls take a bite at this

@jcross pls stay off. You lie too much and aint very smart either. Also i hate the way you write in uppercase

@The_seeker: Easy does it. Jesus was not "praying to himself". That won't be a right way to put it! Jesus is quoting from Psalm 22 which would have been immediately recognized by those within earshot, and today by those who know the Psalms. It follows the classic pattern of the Todah Psalms – suffering followed by deliverance. Jesus the Messiah, Son of David, draws attention to this psalm not only because it is a prophecy of his crucifixion, but because he can very confidently give thanks knowing it’s purpose.

Funny enough, only the first verse and the last verse of that entire Psalm that Jesus recited, were heard by the onlookers:

Psa 22:1 To the Chief Musician; set to [the tune of] Aijeleth Hashshahar [the hind of the morning dawn]. A Psalm of David. MY GOD, my God, why have You forsaken me? Why are You so far from helping me, and from the words of my groaning? [Matt. 27:46.]

Psa 22:31 They shall come and shall declare His righteousness to a people yet to be born--that He has done it [that it is finished]! [John 19:30.]

Jesus likened the sign of his being the Messiah to Jonah's sign.
Mat 12:39 But He replied to them, An evil and adulterous generation (a generation morally unfaithful to God) seeks and demands a sign; but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
Mat 12:40 For even as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. [Jonah 1:17.]
Mat 12:41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, Someone more and greater than Jonah is here! [Jonah 3:5.]

The interpretation is thus:
Jonah got on a ship to avoid God's will, Jesus came to earth to do God's will
Jonah was thrown into the sea to save the shipmates who threw him in, Jesus was nailed to the cross to save mankind who crucified him
Jonah stayed in the fish's belly for three days, Jesus stayed in the earth for three days
Jonah was vomited back to earth on the 3rd day, Jesus resurrected on the 3rd day
Jonah "came back to himself" after it all, Jesus "came back to himself" after it all (he went back to heaven)
THAT was the sign of Jonah!

And lastly (yeah, I have been accused of having long and tedious posts ),

Also what if we couple Matthew 27:46 with Isaiah 6:3 and ask the question why is One Holy Word missing in Yeshua's cry, or maybe there is no Holy Word missing since the Holy One was actually speaking?

Mat 27:46 At about three, Yeshua uttered a loud cry, “Eli! Eli! L’mah sh’vaktani?” (My God! My God! Why have you deserted me?)

Isa 6:3 And one cried to another and said, “Set-apart, set-apart, set-apart is LORD of hosts; all the earth is filled with His esteem!”

Isa 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

I was on my University tennis team and when I made a stupid blunder, would go "Oh F%#K, Nuclearboy, what rubbish is this now? ? ? ?, , ".

Was I talking to another person? If I was, Jesus was talking to another person! That fulfilled a prophecy, simple!

So whats the next question aimed at discrediting Christianity? I just wonder if you can try the same against yourself? Oh, I remember: you guys are not allowed to question anything that can bring illumination to the pages of the Koran, abi? Sad!

@the_seeker, THERE IS NOTHING TO LIE FOR WHEN EVERYTHING HAVE BEING MADE EASY READ THE KORAN AND SEARCH THE ARCHEOLOGICAL FACT ONLINE. SIMPLE AS THAT , FOR MY UPPERCASE WRITING STYLE NOT FOR YOU BUT FOR THE READERS. IF YOU LIKE , YOU MAY LIKE IT AND MAY NOT SO WE ARE IN FREE WORLD . I WILL GO TO THE KORAN AND EXPOSE FOR THE READERS BUT NOT YOU, BASIC. IF AM LYING THAT MEANS YOUR KORAN IS LYING TOO B,COS AM QUOTING FROM IT.

Sahih Bukhari 7.18
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and HIS BOOK, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."
WOW , THAT HADITH IS IT TRUE OF FALSE. THE PROPHET SAID "YOU ARE MY BROTHER IN ALLAH'S RELIGION AND HIS BOOK. CAN YOU SEE THAT "BOOK" SO TELL YOU THAT QURAN WAS AND RECORDED IN THE LIFE TIME OF MOHAMMAD . THIS IS THE QUESTIONS 1, WHO WROTE THE BOOK OR RECORDED THE BOOK FOR HIM? AND IF THAT WAS WRITTEN IN THE TIME OF MOHAMMAD WHERE IS THE ARCHEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE OF IT?. REMEMBER THAT MOHAMMAD STATED THIS BY HIMSELF "THE RELIGION OF AND HIS BOOK"

@jcross, It just goes to expose your ignorance more. Any snsible muslimwouldn't care about your words.They are not just unreasonable but are hollow and empty.owto your questio, how does that suggest to avy negativity to your fault finding brain? The Quran is called a book, just like all the other pre quran books were so called. About the compilation, it was compiled after the Prophet's (peace be upon him)death but it had been written on every writable platform.From tree barks to cattle scapula. More importantly, it was memorized y a whole lot of muslims then and till this day. Silly you, how do you compile a book that is a revelation. This revelation which you do not control such that you don't know when it will end.Note that we do not ascribe Godly powers to the Prophet (peace be upon him) as some people would have us believe that their prophet is a god-man. It was compiled after him, not written after him like the book of stories called, LOL!

@ all the xtian apologetics on here, esp nuclearboy. i'm perplexed. u ain't making no points!?? I mean, Bleep urself on the tennis court??!! So what? We are talking about prayers. Can I go, oh bounty, make me succeed? if jesus cried on that cross, beseeching someone for help, the it had to be someone else different from himself. Maybe it's now the devil o.
About the you on the phone, then this + that making you 3 0f 1 or wateva. I penned an appropriate response 4 u guestwriting on this blog,

http://newageofreason./2009/12/23/solving-some-models-of-the-trinity/

Out of time, somebody can help with the copying.W/E