plaetton:

Not so fast Buddy.
It doesn't work like that here.

You err, you get flogged.
You don't decide who flogs you and who shouldn't.

plaetton:

Not so fast Buddy.
It doesn't work like that here.

You err, you get flogged.
You don't decide who flogs you and who shouldn't.

akintom:



Your point therefore is.......?

damogul:


*facepalm* Mr Intelligent also missed the memo. Wow..well so much for intelligence.

damogul:


*facepalm* Mr Intelligent also missed the memo. Wow..well so much for intelligence.

akintom:


From my clear recollection, you're certainly stumbling on my page first time.

It's now obvious to me now, that your mental construct is lacking in articulation and comprehensive capacity, of scientific culture.

Sleep on in religious clouds, you will be better of.

LiberaDeus:


Bros no need for too much argument.

I don't like threads derailing into arguments and fights, it makes the topic to be shrouded with smoke.

Back to the point, I read the links you posted . The links show a benefit of prayer that has been detailed by most psychologists.

I want you to consider something, if I give you a key to open a door and you try it over and over again and the lock doesn't open, will it be smart for you to claim that the key was beneficial since using it made you feel better and it even helped to train your arm muscles? That won't be smart at all, if the key doesn't work it doesn't work period, every other benefit of trying the key can be gained by other activities.

Lets look at the key of prayer. People pray for so many things including;

1. Good health and cure for diseases
2. Exam success and brilliance
3. Material wealth and prosperity
4. Divine protection from known ills that plague humans like natural disasters, crime, theft, kidnap , terrorism etc
5. Long life
6. Spiritual prosperity and growth of religious adherents

Looking at what was mentioned above, from the links you posted, the only benefit derived from prayer is a mild psychological benefit.

This benefit doesn't eliminate the desire for good health and long life . The benefit just means that people that pray have been shown in average to enjoy the ride a bit more thereby making themselves a bit healthier.
This is what we mean by the placebo effect.
If prayer is like the key I mentioned above then it doesn't open any of the 6 doors but just slightly turns the first door.

Does that sound like a key that works?

So posting those links is like saying a key that was meant to open a lock didn't open it but you felt better while using it and you trained your muscles.

Am yet to see the power and efficacy of prayer.

LiberaDeus:


Bros no need for too much argument.

I don't like threads derailing into arguments and fights, it makes the topic to be shrouded with smoke.

Back to the point, I read the links you posted . The links show a benefit of prayer that has been detailed by most psychologists.

I want you to consider something, if I give you a key to open a door and you try it over and over again and the lock doesn't open, will it be smart for you to claim that the key was beneficial since using it made you feel better and it even helped to train your arm muscles? That won't be smart at all, if the key doesn't work it doesn't work period, every other benefit of trying the key can be gained by other activities.

Lets look at the key of prayer. People pray for so many things including;

1. Good health and cure for diseases
2. Exam success and brilliance
3. Material wealth and prosperity
4. Divine protection from known ills that plague humans like natural disasters, crime, theft, kidnap , terrorism etc
5. Long life
6. Spiritual prosperity and growth of religious adherents

Looking at what was mentioned above, from the links you posted, the only benefit derived from prayer is a mild psychological benefit.

This benefit doesn't eliminate the desire for good health and long life . The benefit just means that people that pray have been shown in average to enjoy the ride a bit more thereby making themselves a bit healthier.
This is what we mean by the placebo effect.
If prayer is like the key I mentioned above then it doesn't open any of the 6 doors but just slightly turns the first door.

Does that sound like a key that works?

So posting those links is like saying a key that was meant to open a lock didn't open it but you felt better while using it and you trained your muscles.

Am yet to see the power and efficacy of prayer.

LiberaDeus:


Bros no need for too much argument.

I don't like threads derailing into arguments and fights, it makes the topic to be shrouded with smoke.

Back to the point, I read the links you posted . The links show a benefit of prayer that has been detailed by most psychologists.

I want you to consider something, if I give you a key to open a door and you try it over and over again and the lock doesn't open, will it be smart for you to claim that the key was beneficial since using it made you feel better and it even helped to train your arm muscles? That won't be smart at all, if the key doesn't work it doesn't work period, every other benefit of trying the key can be gained by other activities.

Lets look at the key of prayer. People pray for so many things including;

1. Good health and cure for diseases
2. Exam success and brilliance
3. Material wealth and prosperity
4. Divine protection from known ills that plague humans like natural disasters, crime, theft, kidnap , terrorism etc
5. Long life
6. Spiritual prosperity and growth of religious adherents

Looking at what was mentioned above, from the links you posted, the only benefit derived from prayer is a mild psychological benefit.

This benefit doesn't eliminate the desire for good health and long life . The benefit just means that people that pray have been shown in average to enjoy the ride a bit more thereby making themselves a bit healthier.
This is what we mean by the placebo effect.
If prayer is like the key I mentioned above then it doesn't open any of the 6 doors but just slightly turns the first door.

Does that sound like a key that works?

So posting those links is like saying a key that was meant to open a lock didn't open it but you felt better while using it and you trained your muscles.

Am yet to see the power and efficacy of prayer.

damogul:


I will keep this short and sweet alright? When I speak i speak from the perspective of one who Believes in God and the efficacy of Prayer.

Now even as a believer in the power of prayer i can relate to science when it tries to put into words the benefits prayer has to offer but since they are not viewing it from my angle spiritually they can only offer physical pointers which are truly the best of their ablity.

Note that these are recent discoveries yet Prayer has been carried out by humanity long before science intelligently began and even in that crude era the benefits were tangible and today science confirms that. So who scientifically recommended prayer back then for it to be beneficial when intelligent science did not exist?

If you read the articles you would see where it clearly stated that prayer has been part of humanity right from the beginning so how come this is so and yet it was not detrimental but beneficial even when there was no research covering it?

I did point at Prayer being a Faith thing which hinges on experiences and not theories. These experiences are personal and verifiable so words from people who lack these personal experiences cannot be used to replace the experiences people have had.

Since Prayer is a physical practice based on spiritual foundations how then can you measure it accurately without also applying spiritual parameters?

damogul:


I will keep this short and sweet alright? When I speak i speak from the perspective of one who Believes in God and the efficacy of Prayer.

Now even as a believer in the power of prayer i can relate to science when it tries to put into words the benefits prayer has to offer but since they are not viewing it from my angle spiritually they can only offer physical pointers which are truly the best of their ablity.

Note that these are recent discoveries yet Prayer has been carried out by humanity long before science intelligently began and even in that crude era the benefits were tangible and today science confirms that. So who scientifically recommended prayer back then for it to be beneficial when intelligent science did not exist?

If you read the articles you would see where it clearly stated that prayer has been part of humanity right from the beginning so how come this is so and yet it was not detrimental but beneficial even when there was no research covering it?

I did point at Prayer being a Faith thing which hinges on experiences and not theories. These experiences are personal and verifiable so words from people who lack these personal experiences cannot be used to replace the experiences people have had.

Since Prayer is a physical practice based on spiritual foundations how then can you measure it accurately without also applying spiritual parameters?

LiberaDeus:


Ok I understand your points. Let me try and summarize them and give my replies.

1. You said that you view it from a spiritual angle so people viewing it from a physical angle can't understand. - from what religions say about prayer, it is clear that prayer is meant to be a spiritual exercise that presents physical benefits.

In other words, if I am a microbiologist and I use my scientific methods with the aid of a microscope, most people would never understand my terminology let alone understand how to use a microscope.
They won't be able to study a piece of bacteria neither would they be able to understand the process of developing a vaccine. One thing is sure, if I claim to be a microbiologist, then my theories should be verifiable in real life.

When someone claims he has a cure for hiv, people must not understand how it works they only need to be able to verify that it works.
In Christianity and other world religions, prayer is said to have a physical effect that can be seen. For example, Elijah praying for rain, Moses parting the red sea, David winning physical battles, the Israelite neighbors attesting to the power of Yahweh etc.

2. Prayer has been carried out long before modern science. But in life, the age of a practice doesn't verify the benefits. Slavery has been carried out long before human rights was preached. Slavery seemed to be beneficial for society since it brought an ever ready working class, it made some people rich, if it wasn't beneficial why wasn't it scrapped up until the 19th century based on your logic. But now we know better than continuing slavery. We can see that societies can reach very high levels of economic prosperity without slavery e.g USA, UK etc.

There are so many age long practices that have been scrapped, what of circumcision, female circumcision, animal sacrifice, bloodletting etc. All these practices were attested to be effective but now we know that whatever benefits they appeared to give there was also a whole lot of negatives coming with it. We have replaced these practices. The same thing with prayer, just because its old doesn't mean it is effective. Prayer is old because it is a psychological coping mechanism used by humans to deal with difficult situations and it is almost natural. But what appears to be natural is not always beneficial.

Defecating in public seems to be natural for all mammals and we humans did it for almost all our existence but we now have better and cleaner ways of excretion. Just like excretion, the urge to defecate comes and we decide to use a toilet cause we have developed one, in prayer also, the problems of life comes and we want to do the almost natural thing of appealing to a supposed higher power in the cloud but due to advancement of humanity we now know that planning before hand is just okay and prayer doesn't change anything.

3. You also talk about prayer being personal so the benefits are personal. This just supports my point that the greatest benefits of prayer are personal and psychological.
Your point of prayer not being measured independently goes against Jesus teaching that says that Christians are the light and salt of the earth. Jesus clearly states that if you put a light out for everyone to see it will be beneficial and people will give glory to god. So Jesus never claimed that prayers effects couldn't be seen. In short, the apostolic ministry is mainly about praying and performing signs and wonders so people can see and believe.

People have personal experiences quite alright but those experiences can be proven to be deeply emotional effects of fervent belief. The same way you cannot quantify my love for my wife because the love comes from my mind. Its the same thing too with prayer. If people enjoy it and feel better and claim they prefer its benefits to not praying who can argue with them for their opinion and experience. But if this same people claim that prayer can move a mountain or raise the dead and they are asked to do it then the personal claims are no longer valid. The claims must be demonstrated since the so called power of prayer is claimed to be universal not personal.

4. Oga what do you define as spiritual. Please give me a definition of the spirit realm and what belongs there. Its only when you table what belongs there that I can refute or accept your last point.

hopefulLandlord:
Amazing Thread!

prayer just gives some kind of psychological "confidence" in face of uncertainty which might be effective on the surface BUT that "confidence" is usually all you needed in the first place

Prayer is like betting to a chronic gambler, you'll never hear them talk about their losses

you'll hear them give testimonies about how prayers helped them overcome a problem but dig a bit deeper and you'll most likely see that a lot of other factors were responsible for that

people who claim prayer works don't know or feign negligence about the laws of probability

franugo:


what are u, naijadeyhia n dalamm still waiting 4 to post d details of d miracles naijadeyhia promised to perform? {healing of amputation, disease etc}. U created dt thread, how come u guys just abandoned it like dt?

damogul:



You started off well then digressed into things that had nothing to do with Prayer just to add some beef to your content so i helped you to highlight the irrelevant portions of your comment.

Now lets deal with the crux of the matter.


Prayer as known by a man who isnt spiritual is seen as discussing with an "imaginary friend"

Prayer as known by a spiritual man is seen as embracing the will and power of a divine friend, brother, father, God

Now God himself gave parameters for prayer application in order to enable him come into the picture and 2 of the key conditions are FAITH and DESIRE.

Faith in God translates to trust in God and Trust in God translates to believing God is who He is and is the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him thus declaring that He is greater than you and can do what your human ability cannot do especially when all else fails.

That is the pillar of Prayer for Christianity.

I did say that prayer is an experience and in this experience is growth. Nobody born today can begin running..He must first belly flop then learn to crawl etc. So it is with prayer.

Prayer begins small and as one grows in God and Faith so do the results. So look at it this way;

Not all that pray have grown and when you wish to carry a prayer project bigger than you, you would flop because you are yet to get to that point but for others they have crossed that point so can easily get answers to prayer in a day that would take you weeks.

Prayer works in 2 ways....draws us closer to God and also grooms us spiritually so we can learn through practise how to become better and stronger in God hence hearing Him better and understanding Him too.

Truthfully and Personally i have seen Prayer do what medicine couldnt and what men failed to do and i have seen this enough times as a religious practice to form a "scientific" opinion that its not;

1) Coincidence

2) Luck of the draw

3) Placebo effect

My experiences which are indeed mine cannot be disproved by you until you present me with your own personal experiences under the same conditions i found myself and applied Prayer....Now this is what science is all about isnt it? Being able to replicate an experiment under the same conditions in order to get the same results hence making the experiment and its findings credible. Have you done this yet?

If you have not then this discussion has no basis as its yet theory to you but Practical experience to me so in this case I AM THE SCIENTIST while YOU ARE NOT.

The spirit Realm is a realm i am a part of as a Child of God and no definition or earth can cover it so i will pass on that as its an experience and not a theory as i have already said.

When i decree a thing to another and it comes to pass repeatedly and is seen and documented then it becomes scientific..e.g

1) As a young boy growing in Christ i have angrily decreed job loss to a security guard who harassed my brother for nothing and i gave him a 2 week deadline. He was sacked for no tangible reason almost 2 weeks later.

2) It was revealed to me by God that my first kid would be a boy and when he would come which would be 5 yrs into my marriage. I told my wife but she was anxious for us to have a kid early. She tried everything to fast forward the process. Nothing worked until the 5yr deadline was up. 5 days from her missing her period i was told by the holy spirit while in bed early in the morning that she was pregnant and i woke her up and congratulated her and told her our son is here. 9 months later our son was born

3) It was revealed to me by God that i would be taken to a place by a woman who would introduce me to some land owners who would want me to assist them and when i got there i would know. 2 yrs after a lady offered me a land sponsorship deal in ikorodu and when i went all the things i saw in the dream i saw them on ground and i sponsored the land survey and got loads of acres in return which would be a church city in the future.

4) I have seen too many demon possessed people delivered..even at my own hands. They were not manipulated or coerced and after they were freed their lives regained normalcy.

The list is endless. This is just to buttress what personal experience is and it is not kalo kalo or placebo. Science cannot transcend the spiritual to explain it but the spiritual can identify with science as proof of its existence which is what the articles i posted clearly indicated.

If you wish to be reasonable with this argument then first of all try not to speak from hearsay. Experience is the best teacher. Come onboard and see this your yourself under the right conditions and then if it fails you then have a good ground to speak knowledgeably on the said subject matter.

jonbellion:
lol dude just let that thing slide naaa

akintom:



Of course you're a "spiritual scientist", no doubt about that.

You're also prophet Elijah.....commanding sack and fire

All these are the tricks and fraud, that achieve only the accumulation of filthy lucre for you and your likes.

My pity is towards the gullible folks.

damogul:



smh is undeserved by you as even that is a waste of a perfectly good smh.

Have you ever heard about "experiences"?

If you think actual experiences are indoctrination then honestly your literacy should be brought to question.

You think Christianity is about indoctrination? No wonder you are deluded.

Christianity is a life of experiences. We see and then we do, we read and then we do. we hear and then we do. Faith without works is dead.

I thought that was clearly in naijadeyhias very first response to you but even your alleged "super" literate mind couldnt grasp a simple statement and here you are shooting yourself in the foot with a word like indoctrination.

You shame the Atheist community. I can see the bar has been lowered to accomodate every "Akin" TOM, DICK and IlLITERATE.

KingEbukasBlog:


The Richest countries is the world are Christian-dominated countries so what is this one saying ? Do you know that cherry-picking is illogical ?

www.cnbc.com/2015/01/14/the-religion-of-millionaires-.html

franugo:


u people sef. Those countries PLANNED and WORKED towards development while africa dt has been PRAYING for millenia 4 development remain stagnant and underdeveloped...dt is d point liberadeus was trying to make

johnydon22:


#Jeeez another dumb ass.. I give up..

damogul:


Let me offer you free advice.

Go get help! You are too bitter to be rational! You spit vitriol at will and think that is a normal conversation and you call yourself normal? You are putting a big dent on your own thread and if you were wise you would tone down your vile to the point of sounding human.

akintom:



Don't take it personal.

If i were you, i would just decide to prove that all my fairy tales are real. You know what i would do?

I will command my tab to blow up beyond repair.

Just as you commanded the sack of the gateman.

LiberaDeus:


Bros no need for too much argument.

I don't like threads derailing into arguments and fights, it makes the topic to be shrouded with smoke.

Back to the point, I read the links you posted . The links show a benefit of prayer that has been detailed by most psychologists.

I want you to consider something, if I give you a key to open a door and you try it over and over again and the lock doesn't open, will it be smart for you to claim that the key was beneficial since using it made you feel better and it even helped to train your arm muscles? That won't be smart at all, if the key doesn't work it doesn't work period, every other benefit of trying the key can be gained by other activities.

Lets look at the key of prayer. People pray for so many things including;

1. Good health and cure for diseases
2. Exam success and brilliance
3. Material wealth and prosperity
4. Divine protection from known ills that plague humans like natural disasters, crime, theft, kidnap , terrorism etc
5. Long life
6. Spiritual prosperity and growth of religious adherents

Looking at what was mentioned above, from the links you posted, the only benefit derived from prayer is a mild psychological benefit.

This benefit doesn't eliminate the desire for good health and long life . The benefit just means that people that pray have been shown in average to enjoy the ride a bit more thereby making themselves a bit healthier.
This is what we mean by the placebo effect.
If prayer is like the key I mentioned above then it doesn't open any of the 6 doors but just slightly turns the first door.

Does that sound like a key that works?

So posting those links is like saying a key that was meant to open a lock didn't open it but you felt better while using it and you trained your muscles.

Am yet to see the power and efficacy of prayer.

LiberaDeus:


Bros no need for too much argument.

I don't like threads derailing into arguments and fights, it makes the topic to be shrouded with smoke.

Back to the point, I read the links you posted . The links show a benefit of prayer that has been detailed by most psychologists.

I want you to consider something, if I give you a key to open a door and you try it over and over again and the lock doesn't open, will it be smart for you to claim that the key was beneficial since using it made you feel better and it even helped to train your arm muscles? That won't be smart at all, if the key doesn't work it doesn't work period, every other benefit of trying the key can be gained by other activities.

Lets look at the key of prayer. People pray for so many things including;

1. Good health and cure for diseases
2. Exam success and brilliance
3. Material wealth and prosperity
4. Divine protection from known ills that plague humans like natural disasters, crime, theft, kidnap , terrorism etc
5. Long life
6. Spiritual prosperity and growth of religious adherents

Looking at what was mentioned above, from the links you posted, the only benefit derived from prayer is a mild psychological benefit.

This benefit doesn't eliminate the desire for good health and long life . The benefit just means that people that pray have been shown in average to enjoy the ride a bit more thereby making themselves a bit healthier.
This is what we mean by the placebo effect.
If prayer is like the key I mentioned above then it doesn't open any of the 6 doors but just slightly turns the first door.

Does that sound like a key that works?

So posting those links is like saying a key that was meant to open a lock didn't open it but you felt better while using it and you trained your muscles.

Am yet to see the power and efficacy of prayer.

damogul:



You started off well then digressed into things that had nothing to do with Prayer just to add some beef to your content so i helped you to highlight the irrelevant portions of your comment.

Now lets deal with the crux of the matter.


Prayer as known by a man who isnt spiritual is seen as discussing with an "imaginary friend"

Prayer as known by a spiritual man is seen as embracing the will and power of a divine friend, brother, father, God

Now God himself gave parameters for prayer application in order to enable him come into the picture and 2 of the key conditions are FAITH and DESIRE.

Faith in God translates to trust in God and Trust in God translates to believing God is who He is and is the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him thus declaring that He is greater than you and can do what your human ability cannot do especially when all else fails.

That is the pillar of Prayer for Christianity.

I did say that prayer is an experience and in this experience is growth. Nobody born today can begin running..He must first belly flop then learn to crawl etc. So it is with prayer.

Prayer begins small and as one grows in God and Faith so do the results. So look at it this way;

Not all that pray have grown and when you wish to carry a prayer project bigger than you, you would flop because you are yet to get to that point but for others they have crossed that point so can easily get answers to prayer in a day that would take you weeks.

Prayer works in 2 ways....draws us closer to God and also grooms us spiritually so we can learn through practise how to become better and stronger in God hence hearing Him better and understanding Him too.

Truthfully and Personally i have seen Prayer do what medicine couldnt and what men failed to do and i have seen this enough times as a religious practice to form a "scientific" opinion that its not;

1) Coincidence

2) Luck of the draw

3) Placebo effect

My experiences which are indeed mine cannot be disproved by you until you present me with your own personal experiences under the same conditions i found myself and applied Prayer....Now this is what science is all about isnt it? Being able to replicate an experiment under the same conditions in order to get the same results hence making the experiment and its findings credible. Have you done this yet?

If you have not then this discussion has no basis as its yet theory to you but Practical experience to me so in this case I AM THE SCIENTIST while YOU ARE NOT.

The spirit Realm is a realm i am a part of as a Child of God and no definition or earth can cover it so i will pass on that as its an experience and not a theory as i have already said.

When i decree a thing to another and it comes to pass repeatedly exactly as decreed and is seen and documented then it becomes scientific..e.g

1) As a young boy growing in Christ i have angrily decreed job loss to a security guard who harassed my brother for nothing and i gave him a 2 week deadline. He was sacked for no tangible reason almost 2 weeks later.

2) It was revealed to me by God that my first kid would be a boy and when he would come would be 5 yrs into my marriage. I told my wife but she was anxious for us to have a kid early. She tried everything to fast forward the process. Nothing worked until the 5yr deadline was up. 5 days from her missing her period i was told by the holy spirit while in bed early in the morning that she was pregnant and i woke her up and congratulated her and told her our son is here. 9 months later our son was born.

My second kid was also revealed to me as a Girl and her name given to me and i have told my wife as well. Now based on the first experience she now believes.

3) It was revealed to me by God that i would be taken to a place by a woman who would introduce me to some land owners who would want me to assist them and when i got there i would know. 2 yrs after a lady offered me a land sponsorship deal in ikorodu and when i went all the things i saw in the dream i saw them on ground and i sponsored the land survey and got loads of acres in return which would be a church city in the future.

4) I have seen too many demon possessed people delivered..even at my own hands. They were not manipulated or coerced and after they were freed their lives regained normalcy.

The list is endless. This is just to buttress what personal experience is and it is not kalo kalo or placebo. Science cannot transcend the spiritual to explain it but the spiritual can identify with science as proof of its existence which is what the articles i posted clearly indicated.

If you wish to be reasonable with this argument then first of all try not to speak from hearsay. Experience is the best teacher. Come onboard and see this for yourself under the right conditions and then if it fails you then have a good ground to speak knowledgeably on the said subject matter.

mrmrmister:


Honestly,
I don't know what that religion makes them feel like
They always act like they're better than and can condemn everyone else,
Very disgusting

akintom:
Many theists' comments here, especially that of naijadeyhia, concluded that, they plan and pray, one doesn't hinder the other.

But that's not the thrust of my thread.

Am saying that prayer, is unwarranted idiocy and waste of time, by those who engage in it.

This is it....




If 1+0 = 1

And 1 - 0 = 1

Therefore, 1=1,

and 0 = 0 (irrelevant)

Now,

If Plan + prayer = plan

And plan - prayer = plan

Therefore, plan = plan,

And prayer = 0 (irrelevant factor)

Plan - prayer maybe equal to plan
But..its nothing but just a PLAN
Never forget that most plans failed no matter how deep you had analyzed it earlier.
Prayer is just like a fuel to ignite plan.
Please note that this world us not all about logics.

akintom:
Many theists' comments here, especially that of naijadeyhia, concluded that, they plan and pray, one doesn't hinder the other.

But that's not the thrust of my thread.

Am saying that prayer, is unwarranted idiocy and waste of time, by those who engage in it.

This is it....




If 1+0 = 1

And 1 - 0 = 1

Therefore, 1=1,

and 0 = 0 (irrelevant)

Now,

If Plan + prayer = plan

And plan - prayer = plan

Therefore, plan = plan,

And prayer = 0 (irrelevant factor)

Plan - prayer maybe equal to plan
But..its nothing but just a PLAN
Never forget that most plans failed no matter how deep you had analyzed it earlier.
Prayer is just like a fuel to ignite plan.
Please note that this world is not all about logics.

akintom:
Many theists' comments here, especially that of naijadeyhia, concluded that, they plan and pray, one doesn't hinder the other.

But that's not the thrust of my thread.

Am saying that prayer, is unwarranted idiocy and waste of time, by those who engage in it.

This is it....



If 1+0 = 1

And 1 - 0 = 1

Therefore, 1=1,

and 0 = 0 (irrelevant)

Now,

If Plan + prayer = plan

And plan - prayer = plan

Therefore, plan = plan,

And prayer = 0 (irrelevant factor)


Proverbs 16:3 Ask the Lord to bless your plans, and you will be successful in carrying them out.

akintom:
Many theists' comments here, especially that of naijadeyhia, concluded that, they plan and pray, one doesn't hinder the other.

But that's not the thrust of my thread.

Am saying that prayer, is unwarranted idiocy and waste of time, by those who engage in it.

This is it....

If 1+0 = 1

And 1 - 0 = 1

Therefore, 1=1,

and 0 = 0 (irrelevant)

Now,

If Plan + prayer = plan

And plan - prayer = plan

Therefore, plan = plan,

And prayer = 0 (irrelevant factor)