davidylan:

Each time i read this constant whine about "missing verses" it always amuses me. This is because at the end of the day you're basically talking of perhaps 1 or 2 missing verses! Besides the fact that some of the early writers may have consciously omitted a verse perhaps based on the audience they were writing for . . . it is possible that we lose some of these verses due to the level of preservation of these manuscripts. For instance certain books of the bible in the dead sea scrolls have numerous verses missing! That's because some of them are so badly damaged!

I do not even have time for these missing verses, some have argued that the missing parts are not just one or two verses as you will like to have us believe. The bottom line is this, if the god of the bible truly exist as you guys will like to have people believe, is he so weak that he depends only on debates about copies of ancient texts that have been changed, ancient text whose originals we do not have and ancient text that were written in some obscured langauge spoken by very few people to reasonably prove his existence and will? Human effort alone is a poor and inefficient means to spread the supposedly most important and helpful message in history but that is the method that this god whom you guys claim knows all things chose to reach out to the world through writings that have undergone various revisions and have various textual difference? I find this incredible.


Then we are left to deal with people like you constantly trying to come up with excuses for this god and the mysterious ways he works or does not work, this does nothing but tell me it is all made up because if he did exist, there is no way he is that stupid.

The revision of the KJV to the NKJV was primarily because some were no longer comfortable with the old version of English language employed with the KJV. Kinda makes your "point" moot.

This is not true, the reason for the revision was because it contains so many errors. Here is an example.

Gen1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. KJV

Gen1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. NKJV

The KJV made an error when it said heaven the hebrew word was plural(Heavens) not singular and that is an example of the error it contains.

Bible to undergo new revision ? christianity nawaooooooooooooooooo

toneyb:

I do not even have time for these missing verses, some have argued that the missing parts are not just one or two verses as you will like to have us believe. The bottom line is this, if the god of the bible truly exist as you guys will like to have people believe, is he so weak that he depends only on debates about copies of ancient texts that have been changed, ancient text whose originals we do not have and ancient text that were written in some obscured langauge spoken by very few people to reasonably prove his existence and will? Human effort alone is a poor and inefficient means to spread the supposedly most important and helpful message in history but that is the method that this god whom you guys claim knows all things chose to reach out to the world through writings that have undergone various revisions and have various textual difference? I find this incredible.

I think you really have no idea what your point was here.

toneyb:

This is not true, the reason for the revision was because it contains so many errors. Here is an example.

Gen1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. KJV

Gen1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. NKJV

The KJV made an error when it said heaven the hebrew word was plural(Heavens) not singular and that is an example of the error it contains.

Actually you lying hypocrite, IT IS TRUE! I am quoting directly from the preface to my copy of the NKJV . . .

[size=13pt]students of the bible applaud the timeless devotional character of our historic bible. Yet it is also universally understood that our language, like all living languages, has undergone profuound change since 1611. Subsequent revisions of the King James Bible have sought to keep abreast of changes in English speech. this present work is a further step toward this objective.[/size]

Below is taken from the wikipedia article on the NKJV . . .

[size=13pt]The task of updating the English of the KJV involved significant changes in word order, grammar, vocabulary, and spelling. One of the most significant features of the NKJV was its abandonment of the second person pronouns “thou,” "thee," “ye,” “thy,” and “thine.” Verb forms were also modernized in the NKJV (for example, "speaks" rather than "speaketh".[/size]

The NKJV was born NOT because of "errors" but to keep abreast of changes in the way English language has changed since 1611.

As regards your "error" in Gen 1:1 . . . please spare us the rubbish. heaven - heavens is a problem? Was Gen 1:1 written in English?

Do these folks ever reason at all?

The same King James Version that contains a lot of old errors, after undergoing New Revision contains now new errors.

Hehehe

Hmm. My conclusion:

The top-selling Bible in North America will
undergo a revision, , The New International
Version, the Bible of choice for conservative
evangelicals, is scheduled to be
completed late next year and published in 2011.

Some Christians here use the very same Bible. I wonder how they feel knowing that its about to be revised? The fact that something needs revision is a clear sign of its erroneous nature is it not?

Gender language has pitted evangelicals
against each other. So in some verses,
references to "sons of God" became "children
of God," for example. Supporters say gender-
inclusive language is more accurate and makes
the Bible more accessible, but critics contend
they twist meaning or smack of political
correctness.

But then I read that, and I remembered that Christians have always used such tactics through out the ages. Politics used to gain more Christians. Similar to the inventions of Valentine's Day, Halloween and indeed Christmas. All of those dreamed up to aid in politics. These revisions while smaller scale actions have the same goal. To bring people to Christianity.

Messing with 'God's Word' seems to hold no shame for them.

whether the Bible is revised or not, the basic message flows . . . so why are muslims crying? or do they now the Holy Bible as a devotional?

davidylan:


As regards your "error" in Gen 1:1 . . . please spare us the rubbish. heaven - heavens is a problem? Was Gen 1:1 written in English?

Do these folks ever reason at all?

You make this kind of remarks and some how feel that others do not "reason" at all. . . .did you bother to read what he wrote? What has the fact that genesis wasnt written in english got to do with the fact that it was wrongly translated in the KJV? By the way Did you bother to read what he wrote? He it is once again

toneyb:

I do not even have time for these missing verses, some have argued that the missing parts are not just one or two verses as you will like to have us believe. The bottom line is this, if the god of the bible truly exist as you guys will like to have people believe, is he so weak that he depends only on debates about copies of ancient texts that have been changed, ancient text whose originals we do not have and ancient text that were written in some obscured langauge spoken by very few people to reasonably prove his existence and will? Human effort alone is a poor and inefficient means to spread the supposedly most important and helpful message in history but that is the method that this god whom you guys claim knows all things chose to reach out to the world through writings that have undergone various revisions and have various textual difference? I find this incredible.


Then we are left to deal with people like you constantly trying to come up with excuses for this god and the mysterious ways he works or does not work, this does nothing but tell me it is all made up because if he did exist, there is no way he is that stupid.

One day Christianity will under go new revision. maybe the truth will come out then.

Nezan:

whether the Bible is revised or not, the basic message flows . . . so why are muslims crying? or do they now the Holy Bible as a devotional?

Muslims, Muslims, Muslims. . .how many Muslims made a commentary to this thread? And how many Athiests. . .or can't you see?

Are you fair?

@nezan, when the bible is revised it means some things will be change or eliminated. What a Holy Book

The more errors they try to correct the more they introduce. Its been happening for 2000 years why do they think it will change now?
[center] [/center]

Because they acheve their goal, signs of the last Prophet, name and the scheme were indicated in the bible but they ve removed it making the later christian far away from the truth

muhsin:

The top-selling Bible in North America will
undergo a revision, modernizing the language
in some sections and promising to reopen a
contentious debate about changing gender
terms in the sacred text. The New International
Version, the Bible of choice for conservative
evangelicals, is scheduled to be
completed late next year and published in 2011.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0, _n_274299.html


Gender language has pitted evangelicals
against each other. So in some verses,
references to "sons of God" became "children
of God," for example. Supporters say gender-
inclusive language is more accurate and makes
the Bible more accessible, but critics contend
they twist meaning or smack of political
correctness.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/, evision/print/

But just what is wrong with a revised text of a translation? I sometimes are amazed at the very low IQ that muslims on Nairaland possess! Are you, dear muhsin, so ignorant of the very fact that there are already numerous REVISED qurans? I don't see what's biting you so much as to make that much noise on a revised English translation of the Bible - unless you're totally and calculatedly ignorant of the same thing happening to numerous English qurans -

---

[list]The organization Muslims Against Sharia is creating a new Koran
with the violent verses removed. How legitimate and wise is this action?
There is an effort in Turkey, for instance, to also revise Islamic texts.
What real hope can these acts offer to bring Islam into the modern and
democratic world?

curled from: "Symposium: A New Koran?"
http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=30658[/list]


. . . . . .

[list]This is what the Muslims Against Sharia stated on their website:
"The following verses promote divisiveness and religious hatred, bigotry and discrimination. They must be either removed from the Koran or declared outdated and invalid, and marked as such."
Then follows a list of such verses -
read more here[/list]

. . . . . .


Even where muslim bookshops advertise some copies of the quran for sale, they (the muslims themselves) have clearly stated that the copies they carry for sale are revisions of some major works of some translators - an example:

[list]The Quran: Saheh International:
"This is the now-familiar Saheeh International English translation of the Qur'an. It includes original Arabic text. It is a paperback edition, measuring roughly 4" x 6". Saheeh International checked many previous translations verse by verse against accepted Arabic tafseer and revised the wording accordingly in clear, contemporary English.
http://islamicbookstore.com/b5269.html[/list]

---

I just don't see how some of you muslims (especially the ones on Nairaland) even try to operate on the borders of sanity. What is the headline news to you, muhsin, that you thought it erstwhile to even open this thread? Has the same thing not happened to the quran in the Islamic world - even by a major Muslim movement in Turkey who are sponsored to revise the quran by entirely removing numerous verses from its pages?

What a liar, the Quran remain intact and will never be revised, bring ur proof if you re truthful


since the bible is to undergo revision it means we ve blunder in it, even a kid knows this scheme

@abuzola, shut up man,ask uthman why he gave the order for previous quranic versions to be destroyed and made his own the official one

''during the collating of the Uthmanic recension of the Qur'an in the mid-seventh century, and that the conflicting copies were all destroyed, so that we cannot know today whether the Qur'an in our possession was even similar to that which was first revealed'



, in Sura 29:46 Muslims are asked not to question the authority of the scriptures of the Christians, saying, "And dispute ye not with the people of the book but say: We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and that which came down to you

The bible have been mistranslated, re-mistranslated, revised, re-revised, re-edited, rewritten and rearranged but is now to undergo now a New Revision; And you wonder why Christianity is divided into so many sects?

Discussions on NL have now degenerated to unintelligeable, meaningless and sometimes very stupid posts. Some one ran to open a thread here because the English version of the Bible is to be revised. Does this translate to the fact that the Hebrew and Latin texts are to be revised too? are the Ibo, Hausa, Yoruba, Tiv, etc. etc. versions of the Holy Bible to be revised too? . . . even more than that, is revision of a text bad? how myopic are these people. For example, in the olden English, phrases like 'thou saith the Lord' were considered good English, but now, it is more appropriate to say 'your Lord says', etc., etc. I think for good scholarship, every text has to be revised after a given number of years to allow for change in lexicon.

The other question is: Does a revised text loose its meaning? absolutely not! it rather makes for further understanding of the original text.

Another question: Is it only the Bible that has been revised? No! English versions of the koran has been similarly revised. Even in the original arabic, there are variations in text and recitation of the koran (warsh, etc., etc.,).


Lets be posting intelligent arguments, please.

I don't know what some people percieve as intelligence? Its most of the time the opposite of intelligence they fathom as one. What a narrow-mindedness!

The bible is to undergo yet another revision. And the fact that something needs revision is a clear sign of its erroneous nature, is it not?

Surely Allah guides whom He wills.

muhsin:


Surely Allah guides whom He wills.

Like the way allah is guiding Osama bin laden and the taliban that are busy behading people in pakistan and afganistan? Sure very good guidence from allah. . . .

What do you understand by the word "guidance"?

muhsin:

What do you understand by the word "guidance"?

Are you trying to play a Neotic on me by asking me silly questions?. . . .Is are the members of the taliban that are busy behaeding people's head not under the guidance opf allah? did mohammed not personally behead other people? Are they not following the foot step of their beloved prophet(beheading prophet)?

@nezan: The hebrew bible had undergo such circumstances,

which of the bible do you read' english or hebrew ?

The Quran has never been changed, and thats why we never alter the use of it authentic language, in prayer, reading and admonition we use the arabic.


How many christian pray in hebrew, read the bible in hebrew or admonish in hebrew ?

Hebrew is only effective in Israel and Palestine predominantly habitated by muslim and jews

mazaje:

Are you trying to play a Neotic on me by asking me silly questions?. . . .Is are the members of the taliban that are busy behaeding people's head not under the guidance opf allah? did mohammed not personally behead other people? Are they not following the foot step of their beloved prophet(beheading prophet)?

Thanks for evading a very straightfoward question.

Prophet Muhammad (saw) behead other ppl.? Lying is not good. . .is it?

Mts.

muhsin:

Thanks for evading a very straightfoward question.

Prophet Muhammad (saw) behead other ppl.? Lying is not good. . .is it?

Mts.

According to “Sirat A, Rasul” page 464):
“When Banu Qurayza Jewish tribe was surrendered (627 A.D.) unconditionally, the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches tying theirs both hands with their necks. This beheading went on until the apostle made an end of them. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. Apparently Muhammad himself worked on the digging of the trench into which the massacred Jews were to be thrown. But he (Muhammad) did not only take part in those preparations, the formulation of the text states but also participated himself in beading of at least two of the leading Jews.

mazaje:


You make this kind of remarks and some how feel that others do not "reason" at all. . . .did you bother to read what he wrote? What has the fact that genesis wasnt written in english got to do with the fact that it was wrongly translated in the KJV? By the way Did you bother to read what he wrote? He it is once again

what annoys most is the tendency for empty heads to just jump into a discussion they have no knowledge about and then start bawling. YES i read what toneyb wrote and responded accordingly.

His post was divided into 2 clear parts based on our earlier discussion . . .

toneyb:

I do not even have time for these missing verses, some have argued that the missing parts are not just one or two verses as you will like to have us believe. The bottom line is this, if the god of the bible truly exist as you guys will like to have people believe, is he so weak that he depends only on debates about copies of ancient texts that have been changed, ancient text whose originals we do not have and ancient text that were written in some obscured langauge spoken by very few people to reasonably prove his existence and will? Human effort alone is a poor and inefficient means to spread the supposedly most important and helpful message in history but that is the method that this god whom you guys claim knows all things chose to reach out to the world through writings that have undergone various revisions and have various textual difference? I find this incredible.


Then we are left to deal with people like you constantly trying to come up with excuses for this god and the mysterious ways he works or does not work, this does nothing but tell me it is all made up because if he did exist, there is no way he is that stupid.

This portion was in response to this from me - Each time i read this constant whine about "missing verses" it always amuses me. This is because at the end of the day you're basically talking of perhaps 1 or 2 missing verses! Besides the fact that some of the early writers may have consciously omitted a verse perhaps based on the audience they were writing for . . . it is possible that we lose some of these verses due to the level of preservation of these manuscripts. For instance certain books of the bible in the dead sea scrolls have numerous verses missing! That's because some of them are so badly damaged!

toneyb:

This is not true, the reason for the revision was because it contains so many errors. Here is an example.

Gen1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. KJV

Gen1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. NKJV

The KJV made an error when it said heaven the hebrew word was plural(Heavens) not singular and that is an example of the error it contains.

This section was NOT LINKED to the earlier part and was CLEARLY in response to this - The revision of the KJV to the NKJV was primarily because some were no longer comfortable with the old version of English language employed with the KJV. Kinda makes your "point" moot.

Even toneyb himself clearly quoted the various portions of my posts that he was responding to.

mazaje:

According to “Sirat A, Rasul” page 464):
“When Banu Qurayza Jewish tribe was surrendered (627 A.D.) unconditionally, the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches tying theirs both hands with their necks. This beheading went on until the apostle made an end of them. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. Apparently Muhammad himself worked on the digging of the trench into which the massacred Jews were to be thrown. But he (Muhammad) did not only take part in those preparations, the formulation of the text states but also participated himself in beading of at least two of the leading Jews.

Source. Simple.

@mazaje- You either Quote Hadith or Quran and stop quoting baseless beef

Very good, Abuzola.

He won't respond, for he can't.

WELDONE,Muhsin and Abuzola brother

Quran 36



2 By the Quran, full of wisdom (i.e. full of laws, evidences, and proofs),
3 Truly, you (O Muhammad SAW) are one of the Messengers,
4 On a Straight Path (i.e. on Allahs religion of Islamic Monotheism).
5 (This is) a Revelation sent down by the AllMighty, the Most Merciful,
6 In order that you may warn a people whose forefathers were not warned, so they are heedless.
7 Indeed the Word (of punishment) has proved true against most of them, so they will not believe.

@Davidylan: « #4 on: November 11, 2009, 03:40 PM »

The deciet of the muslim . . . i've been reading KJV since 1985 . . . its remained the same since the 17th century.

I guess no one read any Bible prior to 17th Century? I there was an original before 17th Century's KJV, I wanna know where is it now? David, I will take you to task on this, in a new york minute.