Sarassin:


Well hello TB is that you in disguise? You took a wrong turn in addressing me today, you should have kept to your shameless plugging of the vile Emmanuel TV and the disaster zone you call a house of God, more importantly you ought to know I do not take lectures from those who feed on the misery of human souls, and you have the chutzpah to accuse me of contradictions? Didn’t your ineffable spirits reveal to you that I am male? Or is it just another case of you zigging when you should have zagged?

Thanks anyway. Your severe emotional reaction helps us all to measure how far you are on your spiritual journey. What made me think you are female? I dont remember now. Oh, It could the the first part of SARA...SSIN. My apologies

You say you dont take lectures from anyone, but there are Profs, doctors, Theologians world-wide that spend a lot of money to travel from around the world to attend a lecture and get effective demonstrations of the true power of Jesus Christ from the holy prophet TB Joshua.

Would you happen to know why these highly educated people chose the Holy Prophet TB Joshua to lecture them ?

LoJ:

Good afternoon. The song is indeed beautiful.

By all means, do not interpret my message as an invitation to follow any specific path, particularly esoteric schools of thoughts. Nothing wrong with that, I myself belong(ed) to none although after searching for long, I was "called" by life to learn and practice Tantra. In general, esoteric knowledge is not tantamount to spiritual development. Both are independent one from the other, albeit most pehople confuse them.

In addition, Even in the christian tradition there are people who were deep spiritual men and women. I continue to view Sadhu Sundar Singh, francis of assisi, Ignatius of Loyola, Stylianos atteshis, and many others are respectable men and women with some spiritual advancement.

Feel free, and to thy own self, be true.

Greetings.

hi am Collins,I recently became an atheist(four months ago),but I still have a very strong and emotional attachment attachment to Christianity.i want something to feel the gap(rational philosophy or spirituality)

ScienceWatch:
Thanks anyway. Your severe emotional reaction helps us all to measure how far you are on your spiritual journey. What made me think you are female? I dont remember now. Oh, It could the the first part of SARA...SSIN. My apologies

You say you dont take lectures from anyone, but there are Profs, doctors, Theologians world-wide that spend a lot of money to travel from around the world to attend a lecture and get effective demonstrations of the true power of Jesus Christ from the holy prophet TB Joshua.

Would you happen to know why these highly educated people chose the Holy Prophet TB Joshua to lecture them ?

You are very welcome sir. Your calibration of my spiritual progress is not required but thanks anyway. Perhaps you did not read my words clearly, I stated that “I do not take lectures from those who feed on the misery of human souls”.

A lot of highly educated people perished with the Rev Jim Jones in the forests of Guyana in 1978, obviously charlatanry is alive and kicking even today.

I suggest you leave well alone and go back to doing what you do best.

LoJ:

Good afternoon. The song is indeed beautiful.

By all means, do not interpret my message as an invitation to follow any specific path, particularly esoteric schools of thoughts. Nothing wrong with that, I myself belong(ed) to none although after searching for long, I was "called" by life to learn and practice Tantra. In general, esoteric knowledge is not tantamount to spiritual development. Both are independent one from the other, albeit most people confuse them.

In addition, Even in the christian tradition there are people who were deep spiritual men and women. I continue to view Sadhu Sundar Singh, francis of assisi, Ignatius of Loyola, Stylianos atteshis, and many others are respectable men and women with some spiritual advancement.

Feel free, and to thy own self, be true.

Greetings.

Thank you

Modified.

I doubt.

Sarassin:


You are very welcome sir. Your calibration of my spiritual progress is not required but thanks anyway. Perhaps you did not read my words clearly, I stated that “I do not take lectures from those who feed on the misery of human souls”.

A lot of highly educated people perished with the Rev Jim Jones in the forests of Guyana in 1978, obviously charlatanry is alive and kicking even today.

I suggest you leave well alone and go back to doing what you do best.

I agree with you whole heartedly ! There are too many powerful people that feed on the misery of human suffering. here are a few examples that emphasize your point;

The insane men below who founded atheism also have the greatest influence on Psychology and Psychiatry, Charles Darwin, Sigmund Freud, Thomas Henry Huxley and Nietzsche, Issac Newton, Albert Einstein. Socrates believed that mental illness was heaven-sent and not shameful in the least. He believed it to be a blessing, and therefore no treatment was required. He was wrong ! They were all wrong!

ISAAC NEWTON –an atheist. One of the greatest scientists of all time is also the hardest genius to diagnose, but historians agree he had a lot of psychological problems. Newton suffered from huge ups and downs in his moods, indicating bipolar disorder, combined with psychotic tendencies. His inability to connect with people could place him on the autism spectrum. He also had a tendency to write letters filled with mad delusions, which some medical historians feel strongly indicates schizophrenia. Whether he suffered from one or a combination of these serious illnesses

Charles Darwin – The master of faking evolution theories for personal status. He lived the greatest portion of his life in deep mental depression, there is a history of mental illness in his family. He believed his dad had the power of prediction; He had an endless catalogue of psychosomatic illnesses and lived as a semi invalid barely past thirty.

Sigmund Freud – During his insanity, He believed women wanted sex with their fathers and womens stories of rape and molestation were fantasies. Instead of victims these women were the villains.( shocking)

Sigmund Freud was the founding father of psychoanalysis, a method for treating a mental illness and also a theory which explains human behaviour. Freud believed a female is a failed boy.
He was obsessed with having sex his mother and had rivalry with his dad. The desire to have sex with his mother and kill his father haunted his dreams. He believed women wanted sex with there fathers and stories of rape and molestation were fantasies. Instead of victims these women were villains.

Fredrick Nietzsche His writings have increased - not reduced - human despair, suffering and dissatisfaction. Millions have perished in agony in ugly and inhuman concentration camps.
In the second half of his life he suffered from psychiatric mental illness with depression and a definite psychological pattern of insanity is evident.

Josef Stalin an atheist eventually suffered agonizing mental diseases for thirty years, until his death in 1953, Josef Stalin was the mass-murdering atheist dictator of Soviet Russia.

He was also a fool.
Muggeridge had collaborated with Svetlana Stalin, Josef Stalin’s daughter, on a BBC documentary about her God-hating father. She recounted his last insane act of defiant rebellion against the Creator: “As Stalin lay dying, going insane, plagued with terrifying hallucinations, he suddenly sat halfway up in bed, clenched his fist toward the heavens once more, fell back upon his pillow, and was dead.”

“His one last gesture,” observed Zacharias, “was a clenched fist toward God, his heart as cold and hard as steel.”

Here we see why it is folly to mock God.

Godgay:
hi am Collins,I recently became an atheist(four months ago),but I still have a very strong and emotional attachment attachment to Christianity.i want something to feel the gap(rational philosophy or spirituality)

Hello Godgay.

I am of course willing to help if I can. How and why did you become an Atheist?

Christianity like all religions has a lot of inconsistencies and contradictions. It does not mean it should be rejected altogether. Sometimes there are higher reasons why we are born in a specific cultural/religious environment. Before we engage in a new path, there should be sufficient and valid reasons. Else, it can lead to a form of disequilibrium and we end up worse off.

Greetings.

MizMyColi:


Thank you

Dear MizMyColi, I think the advise given to you by LOJ is priceless and there isn't much more to add to its symmetry. They say "cometh the hour, cometh the man". A good friend wrote to me saying "there is no hurry in spiritual growth". I agree, take your time and feel what is right for you. Best wishes to you and the little one.

Sarassin:


Dear MizMyColi, I think the advise given to you by LOJ is priceless and there isn't much more to add to its symmetry. They say "cometh the hour, cometh the man". A good friend wrote to me saying "there is no hurry in spiritual growth". I agree, take your time and feel what is right for you. Best wishes to you and the little one.

Thank You.

ScienceWatch:
MIZMYCOLI, your statement that you must now get to know Jesus Christ on a deeper level proves something very profound.

You will make rapid progress if you avoid the crowd that play the blame game and the fancy word games. You must find answers that take you directly to the master.

Can one escape the vicious spiritual traps laid for millions of innocent people by fake pastors, atheists, competing religions, cruel governments and science ?
Emmanuel TV provide the most scientifically verifiable evidence of the highest spiritual TRUTH to the world 24 HRS A DAY. Now you too can escape into true light.

You do remember what Jesus said when the evil Jewish priests told him that what he is doing - all the healing and deliverance - is done by the power of Satan. This is what the holy Prophet TB Joshua of Scoan Nigeria is also accused of today.

Jesus said to these so-called holy men. “Satan can’t and will not work against himself."
What does this mean?

Even if a so-called respected but false pastor/Bishop/Prophet/Clergyman try to heal or do demon deliverance, it can’t and won’t work. Satan can’t and won’t work against himself.

Finally we all have loads of scientifically verifiable evidence coming out of Scoan Church Nigeria that proves the holy Gospels and the Holy Books of Acts to be accurate. Truth seekers are eternally grateful to a humble servant of the true GOD, Prophet TB Joshua.

For the last time, i will say you are a promoter of SCOAN. thanks.

LoJ:







Hello

I thank you for your remarks about what you think I am/was, or the demons I supposedly spoke with. I normally would have avoided to answer, but your regular references to the scoan/emmanuel tv, convinced me not to.

You seem to reduce spirituality to a particular movement. You are entitled to do so. But you may consider broadening your mind and your view, to reach a higher state of consciousness.

Funny enough, some of us, especially some of the people you spoke to/about, have personal spiritual and physical experiences with the man you seem to regard so highly. Even in the christian tradition, it is not divine to put your "trust in a man" and "draw strength from mere flesh" - to use the words of the Bible.

I wish you good.

Gee, that guy own too much oo. I dont know if TB josh is feeding him or advertising SCOAN on his behalf

ScienceWatch:
I agree with you whole heartedly ! There are too many powerful people that feed on the misery of human suffering. here are a few examples that emphasize your point;

Nice dissembling TB, but there's really no need to go that far abroad. In case it escaped you, I was referring to you and your organisation comprised of a staged miracle TV station, your self-serving justification of “works” as a means of subjugating your congregation through mental coercion, false indoctrination, extortionate charges for sundry items like well water and the use of sub-standard materials in clear violation of government building codes and illegal construction leading to the collapse of your building and the avoidable loss of uncountable lives for which you are presently seeking to avoid an indictment. What do you have to say about that?

Sarassin:


Nice dissembling TB, but there's really no need to go that far abroad. In case it escaped you, I was referring to you and your organisation comprised of a staged miracle TV station, your self-serving justification of “works” as a means of subjugating your congregation through mental coercion, false indoctrination, extortionate charges for sundry items like well water and the use of sub-standard materials in clear violation of government building codes and illegal construction leading to the collapse of your building and the avoidable loss of uncountable lives for which you are presently seeking to avoid an indictment. What do you have to say about that?

Wow! you are determined to follow the atheistic path and destroy what clearly is a giant blessing to the world.

Thousands of personal testimony cant move you to at least go and do an undercover investigation yourself, instead of shyly using other peoples uninformed opinions.

What are the hidden motives that drive you to blame a pastor for an engineering/construction problem in a building he is using to do his work ? Can a reasonable person blame a pastor for any weakness in construction material ?

ScienceWatch:
Wow! you are determined to follow the atheistic path and destroy what clearly is a giant blessing to the world.

Thousands of personal testimony cant move you to at least go and do an undercover investigation yourself, instead of shyly using other peoples uninformed opinions.

What are the hidden motives that drive you to blame a pastor for an engineering/construction problem in a building he is using to do his work ? Can a reasonable person blame a pastor for any weakness in construction material ?

The false doctrines, the extortion, the loss of lives, where is the shyness you refer to? With blessings like these who needs the devil? Your man is quick to take credit for spurious miracles and infantile self-fulfilling prophecies, but when the house collapses around his ears naturally it’s the fault of a flying saucer.

I know your man better than you ever will, I could regale you but I can't be bothered anymore, the thread has been derailed sufficiently.

Go and talk to your man, ask him about the guy who grew a plant from seedling to maturity in 12 hours....... 26 years ago.

Sarassin:


Nice dissembling TB, but there's really no need to go that far abroad. In case it escaped you, I was referring to you and your organisation comprised of a staged miracle TV station, your self-serving justification of “works” as a means of subjugating your congregation through mental coercion, false indoctrination, extortionate charges for sundry items like well water and the use of sub-standard materials in clear violation of government building codes and illegal construction leading to the collapse of your building and the avoidable loss of uncountable lives for which you are presently seeking to avoid an indictment. What do you have to say about that?

Take it easy now ! Which god are you calling on now ? You say that you do call on the following Gods Jesus, Krishna, Ganesha or the Archangel Michael as you require. To help the youth decide on their next spiritual step toward the creator God, it should be in order to simplify this exchange.

1) SARASSIN: “Throughout the history of mankind we can glimpse the recurring actions of certain deities
If one looks close enough you will see those of Jesus too, in his many guises but most will not recognize him.”

SCIENCEWATCH : you say Jesus has many guises, are you able to identify them?
How come you can not recognize Jesus in the WORKS done by the holy Prophet TB Joshua, but thousands world wide can ?

2) SARASSIN: I firmly believe in Jesus of Nazareth, as a mystic one is taught to experience a deity, and I can assure you that no religion has a monopoly of any deity or God,

SCIENCEWATCH : How is it working for you ? I mean you claim to firmly believe in Jesus, but you also call on Krishna, Ganesha or the Archangel for your different needs. Sirely you must have the same attitude toward your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend.

3) SARASSIN : In the bible what is truly known about the man Jesus would not fill one chapter in the NT,

SCIENCEWATCH: How many pages would make a chapter to your reckoning ?

4) SARASSIN : I can assure you that no religion has a monopoly of any deity or God, the religion is only “A” channel to the deity nothing more and that channel can be dispensed with altogether.

SCIENCEWATCH : this is interesting. How do you determine when to dispense of Krishna, Jesus, Ganesha or the Archangel.

5) SARASSIN : if you ever require divine compassion in your life then Jesus is the one,he is unique but nothing in the Christian texts prepares you to really encounter him meaningfully.

SCIENCEWATCH : Your problem is not in the Holy Biblical texts, but rather , you have never met a TRUE pastor that can demonstrate a real encounter with Christ.
The world is full of FAKE pastors that are not recognized in the spiritual world of Light. They are glorified motivational speakers with no spiritual authority from the LIGHT.

LoJ:

Hello Godgay.

I am of course willing to help if I can. How and why did you become an Atheist?

Christianity like all religions has a lot of inconsistencies and contradictions. It does not mean it should be rejected altogether. Sometimes there are higher reasons why we are born in a specific cultural/religious environment. Before we engage in a new path, there should be sufficient and valid reasons. Else, it can lead to a form of disequilibrium and we end up worse off.

Greetings.

I became an atheist because I got deep into science especially physics,the universe just seem too big and complex for a religion like Christianity, let's not even talk about it's scientific and outdated moral "fact".
I evny your spirituality but I doubt if I can believe in any predestination the world seem like a complexity of consequences and coincidences to me.

ScienceWatch:
Take it easy now ! Which god are you calling on now ?

If you wish to discuss my beliefs open another thread and ask your questions there.

Sarassin:


The false doctrines, the extortion, the loss of lives, where is the shyness you refer to? With blessings like these who needs the devil? Your man is quick to take credit for spurious miracles and infantile self-fulfilling prophecies, but when the house collapses around his ears naturally it’s the fault of a flying saucer.

I know your man better than you ever will, I could regale you but I can't be bothered anymore, the thread has been derailed sufficiently.

Go and talk to your man, ask him about the guy who grew a plant from seedling to maturity in 12 hours....... 26 years ago.

No Problem, please regale me, I dont mind. learning is more important than pain.
It could certainly help a reasonable man to consider facts that he personally can not afford to gather. Lets do something constructive and put this thread back on its rails.

The holy Scoan Church has been thoroughly investigated by various independent bodies. I must squeeze this in here because i just changed to Emmanual TV now, Children are putting grown men to shame right now on Emmanuel TV now. check it.

Oh where were we ? investigations of the Holy Scoan Nigeria. Yes check this !

THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT MADE BY PROMINENT DUTCH THEOLOGIAN PROFESSOR WILLEM J. OUWENEEL ABOUT PROPHET T.B. JOSHUA AND THE SCOAN CHURCH, LAGOS, NIGERIA.
Professor Ouweneel holds doctorates in biology (Utrecht), philosophy (Amsterdam) and theology (Bloemfontein, RSA).
Professor Ouweneel is a theology and philosophy professor at several colleges and theological faculties. He is the author of over 100 books. He lives in the Netherlands, where he was born.

WHAT A THEOLOGY PROFFESSOR SAID ABOUT TB JOSHUA.
Here is an extract from Professor Ouweneel’s experience at the Holy Scoan Church Nigeria ;
I come from a Brethren background and not a charismatic background. So naturally I was a bit reluctant to go to Nigeria, but my daughter went there several times and she gave me the message that T.B. Joshua was interested in seeing me, although she had not told him anything about me. So I went there twice, once for five days in March and once for ten days in June and I hope to go there again in October

Professor Ouweneel says, ”I was very much impressed by what I saw, heard and experienced there. Not so much only in seeing the miracles that happened and the sermons that were given, but particularly the spiritual experience in my own soul when I was there.

That is something that everyone who doesn't go there in person will miss.

You will not experience personally what it is to be at such a sacred place, where I felt the Lord's presence in a particular way and where He spoke to me on things that He had not spoken on to me previously in such a powerful way.

Professor Ouweneel goes on to explain, “Another thing that people will not experience if they don't go there is what kind of person T.B. Joshua is in himself. I had the opportunity of several in depth conversations with him.

People who don't go there will also not notice the spiritual atmosphere of the meetings and the godly impact that he has on people who are there. I was there with a Dutch group and I spoke with the other guests who were there, all of whom were very touched.

Sarassin:


We can be certain that Jesus of Nazareth lived and died. We are also certain that early Jewish Christians, Greeks and Romans had far better information about the life and times of the man Jesus than we do at present, we are 100% percent that this information was largely suppressed and destroyed by later church authorities, but for the intrepid and the brave, the life of Jesus can be whispered through the ghosts of history.

It is clear that Jesus was tried for sedition and sentenced to death by crucifixion, we know this because the Roman’s although merciless were not careless, they recorded details of all capital trials, unfortunately the details of the trial records of Jesus did not make good reading for Christians, it talked about “Jesus’ gang, Brigandage, highway men and robbers”, it contained none of the present day fairy tales of Jesus bantering with Caesar “Are you the King of the Jews?” e.t.c, e.t.., The very idea of an accused speaking back at Caesar in first century Palestine is laughable. In fact the trial records reflected so badly on Christianity that Jewish Christian authorities would not even pick up a copy of the proceedings, and when it was finally made public in the 3rd century…..it was disowned.

There is no evidence beyond belief and faith that Jesus rose from the dead, imagine the reaction of the Roman authorities if a man they had just sentenced to death had the temerity to climb down from his crucifixion and walk around in broad daylight for at least 40 days.

The sermon on the mount is one of the few authentic sayings of Jesus, there are technical reasons for this that I would rather not go into here, but there are dozens others attributed to Jesus that he could never have uttered, for instance, the story about the “coin in the mouth of the fish”

I would not say that the Bible has been modified, that is to imply that there once existed a more “original “version and that was never the case. Christians know only what Christian authorities wish them to know.

None of this diminishes Jesus. Whether you refer to him as a deity or a God or a son of God is largely irrelevant. Jesus is in the pantheon of the greats and stands unique as the emanator of compassion to mankind. In truth, man looks in the mirror and creates his God in his own image, we create our own deities by constant adoration and once that adoration ceases, the gods cease to exist. One hundred years from now our descendants will deify and worship Mother Theresa. Deities are an emanation of the Supreme Divine being in a form knowable to humankind.

Hi SARASSIN, for the sake of the youth, it could strengthen your arguments if you consider the points below;

1) SARASSIN : The very idea of an accused speaking back at Caesar in first century Palestine is laughable. In fact the trial records reflected so badly on Christianity that Jewish Christian authorities would not even pick up a copy of the proceedings, and when it was finally made public in the 3rd century…..it was disowned.

SCIENCEWATCH : You have the wrong records. Jesus Christ never appeared for trial before emperor Julius Ceasar. It was Pontuis Pilate

2) SARASSIN : There is no evidence beyond belief and faith that Jesus rose from the dead, imagine the reaction of the Roman authorities if a man they had just sentenced to death had the temerity to climb down from his crucifixion and walk around in broad daylight for at least 40 days.

SCIENCEWATCH : Firstly, Jesus did not climb down from the crucifix. Secondly, in a modern court of law, eye witness testimony of an event carries substantial legal weight. Besides the personal testimonies of all these people, closely observe their actions after their encounter with the risen Christ.
You would do well to rather say. "for me personally, I have not found evidence that Jesus rose from the dead."

Sarassin:


If you wish to discuss my beliefs open another thread and ask your questions there.

Would that be necessary ?

I think I see your journey of discovery in this confusing world.
Where are our mentors ?

Most are FAKE pastors - meaning spiritual guides.

It is most dangerous to have a spiritual guide/pastor that only have an intellectual understanding of the "Supernatural".

The clearest evidence of a real spiritual guide/pastor is their ability to enter into the spirit dimension/kingdom of God. Then power flow and miracles happen.

The people that use dark spirits have more experience of supernatural power than Churches because of FAKE pastors.

Anas09:

My good sir. The Romans had nothing on Jesus. The Master did not break any Roman law, hence; Pilates Insistence to know why they had brought Jesus to him.

He demanded to know from the Jews, "what did you say this man did? Three Jewish TRUMPED UP witnesses came forward, all saying different things. This confused Pilate the more. This was why he called Jesus into his inner court and demanded from him personally why he was Standing trial.

Jesus wasn't answering any questions put forward to Him, Pilate, in trying to establish his power, told Jesus that he could have him set free, it was at this point that Jesus spoke up and told Pilate that he had no power over him.

Haven perused the whole events unfolding before him, he saw a conspiracy, hences, his washing his hands publicly to exonerate himself from any consequence which would come as a result of killing an innocent man.

If the Romans wrote down other Jesus' allegations, those would be lies.

According to the Roman law, Jesus was an innocent man.

Luke 23: 13-16.

And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people,

And Pilate said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:

No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him; and, lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him.

I will therefore chastise him, and release him.

Here a Roman consolate was speaking. If Jesus committed crimes against the Roman laws as you purported sir, the Jews till today are not the friends or fans of Jesus, those crimes won't be hidden.

Jesus was basically killed because he declared himself the Son of God, putting himself in the place of God.

No other people understands what being a Son of God means than the Jews. He was telling them that he was God. For that, he needed to die.

Shalom.

You have the biblical account of course, my point is that the biblical account is somewhat incomplete. I prefer actual historical accounts. Now, we know from the genuine Acta Pilati (311CE) and Comentarii of Tiberius that a warrant of arrest was issued for Jesus, there was a writ of indictment,(Libellus) detailing the charges, his description his full birth names (we know that the names Josephus gives us tallies with what Pilate recorded) and reward for his arrest, in addition there was the acta of preliminary enquiries (cognitio) as well as an iconismus (portrait) of the accused.

It is incorrect to state that Pilate was ignorant of the charge against Jesus, Jesus could never have been arrested without the warrant. In fact according to the records the Jewish authorities gave their information to the Roman Governor whilst Jesus was still at liberty, it was a singular act of self-preservation, clearly because Pilate would have held them responsible for Jesus’ declaration as the King of the Jews. The charge was sedition, brigandage and robbery (his followers were accused of being highwaymen at his instigation) they were crimes against the Roman empire.

ScienceWatch:
Hi SARASSIN, for the sake of the youth, it could strengthen your arguments if you consider the points below;

SCIENCEWATCH : You have the wrong records. Jesus Christ never appeared for trial before emperor Julius Ceasar. It was Pontuis Pilate

On this singular issue you are quite correct, it was a simple error somebody else called me out for it, thank you.

ScienceWatch:
Hi SARASSIN, for the sake of the youth, it could strengthen your arguments if you consider the points below;


2) SARASSIN : There is no evidence beyond belief and faith that Jesus rose from the dead, imagine the reaction of the Roman authorities if a man they had just sentenced to death had the temerity to climb down from his crucifixion and walk around in broad daylight for at least 40 days.

SCIENCEWATCH : Firstly, Jesus did not climb down from the crucifix. Secondly, in a modern court of law, eye witness testimony of an event carries substantial legal weight. Besides the personal testimonies of all these people, closely observe their actions after their encounter with the risen Christ.
You would do well to rather say. "for me personally, I have not found evidence that Jesus rose from the dead."

You raise valid objections to my post, first off I am well aware that Jesus did not climb off his cross, it was a figure of speech. You talk about substantial legal weight of personal testimonies, fine, but then which people are you actually referring to? which Gospel accounts give you a clear un-contrasting account of the resurrection? are there any historical documents that attest eyewitness statements? or do you consider unverified accounts by indeterminate Gospel authors as historical evidence. I accept your faith and belief but don't confuse that with evidence. My premise stands, I see no evidence that Jesus rose from the dead.

Sarassin:


You raise valid objections to my post, first off I am well aware that Jesus did not climb off his cross, it was a figure of speech. You talk about substantial legal weight of personal testimonies, fine, but then which people are you actually referring to? which Gospel accounts give you a clear un-contrasting account of the resurrection? are there any historical documents that attest eyewitness statements? or do you consider unverified accounts by indeterminate Gospel authors as historical evidence. I accept your faith and belief but don't confuse that with evidence. My premise stands, I see no evidence that Jesus rose from the dead.

I apologize for missing your "figure of speech".

I dont wish to nit-pick on your excellent post so I will leave things as they are. It is impressive how you provide quality responses to very difficult questions. this is not an easy subject to debate fairly, but the unintended consequence of your post is that many poorly grounded people will find imaginary reasons to doubt the scientifically verifiable reality that Jesus is who he claimed to be and that evidence is made abundantly clear in the Holy Scoan Church Nigeria for the whole world to see.

Jesus has once again survived a certain theoretical death simply because action speaks louder than words. Jesus was an action man that is why no amount of deceptive intellectual scrutiny can dent the fact that what was written in the Holy Gospels thousands of years ago is happening today daily in the Holy Scoan Church Nigeria.

Those who are afraid to go and personally investigate the modern scientifically verifiable evidence now freely available that Jesus lives, that Jesus heals etc can cowardly stand on roof tops and shout ........ it is all fake ! It is all fake

Because of the Holy Scoan Church the world is having a dramatic awakening to the reality of the Holy Gospels and Acts regardless of of the fact that the bible arrived in our modern world tattered and torn.

Godgay:
I became an atheist because I got deep into science especially physics,the universe just seem too big and complex for a religion like Christianity, let's not even talk about it's scientific and outdated moral "fact".
I evny your spirituality but I doubt if I can believe in any predestination the world seem like a complexity of consequences and coincidences to me.

Hello Godgay,

I thank you for the explanations. I believe you are doing great. You do not need to believe in anything: I too, do not believe in predestination by a god.

Rational* atheism in particular agnosticism is the most objective intellectual stance in relationship to (the existence of) god for any seeker of truth. It should be "the default setting" . Of course the downside of it, is that it kills the magic/mystery of life. Such magic and dream side of ourselves is actually quite important because "nothing great was ever achieved without passion " in the words of Hegel.

It is good to be as objective and skeptical as the most hardcore scientist (Believers of scientism here meant). In the meantime, it is also important to be able to see the world with its magic and enthusiasm, as seen by a little child.

To conclude, you've just freed yourselves from a religion. I think you may not need a new path now, because you may go back to slavery. Rather enjoy your freedom. Travel, visit friend, show love to people around you. Be a nice guy, have sex (responsibly), drink (responsibly) and enjoy the pleasures (and pains) of life. Live for a higher cause, and set a goal for your life. Fear no god nor demon, but human greed. Follow your dreams and passions, and do whatever makes you good (responsibly). You are a free man, not a slave. Enjoy yourself.

If it is in the course of things that you search the "magic of life", at some point the "dragons and the fairies" will knock at your door.

Greetings.

* Rational here implies it is a conscious process, the fruit of an honest quest, and not some form of copying a trend or being influenced by relatives.

LoJ:

Hello Godgay,

I thank you for the explanations. I believe you are doing great. You do not need to believe in anything: I too, do not believe in predestination by a god.

Rational* atheism in particular agnosticism is the most objective intellectual stance in relationship to (the existence of) god for any seeker of truth. It should be "the default setting" . Of course the downside of it, is that it kills the magic/mystery of life. Such magic and dream side of ourselves is actually quite important because "nothing great was ever achieved without passion " in the words of Hegel.

It is good to be as objective and skeptical as the most hardcore scientist (Believers of scientism here meant). In the meantime, it is also important to be able to see the world with its magic and enthusiasm, as seen by a little child.

To conclude, you've just freed yourselves from a religion. I think you may not need a new path now, because you may go back to slavery. Rather enjoy your freedom. Travel, visit friend, show love to people around you. Be a nice guy, have sex (responsibly), drink (responsibly) and enjoy the pleasures (and pains) of life. Live for a higher cause, and set a goal for your life. Fear no god nor demon, but human greed. Follow your dreams and passions, and do whatever makes you good (responsibly). You are a free man, not a slave. Enjoy yourself.

If it is in the course of things that you search the "magic of life", at some point the "dragons and the fairies" will knock at your door.

Greetings.

* Rational here implies it is a conscious process, the fruit of an honest quest, and not some form of copying a trend or being influenced by relatives.

thanks you spoke well

Sarassin:


You have the biblical account of course, my point is that the biblical account is somewhat incomplete. I prefer actual historical accounts. Now, we know from the genuine Acta Pilati (311CE) and Comentarii of Tiberius that a warrant of arrest was issued for Jesus, there was a writ of indictment,(Libellus) detailing the charges, his description his full birth names (we know that the names Josephus gives us tallies with what Pilate recorded) and reward for his arrest, in addition there was the acta of preliminary enquiries (cognitio) as well as an iconismus (portrait) of the accused.

It is incorrect to state that Pilate was ignorant of the charge against Jesus, Jesus could never have been arrested without the warrant. In fact according to the records the Jewish authorities gave their information to the Roman Governor whilst Jesus was still at liberty, it was a singular act of self-preservation, clearly because Pilate would have held them responsible for Jesus’ declaration as the King of the Jews. The charge was sedition, brigandage and robbery (his followers were accused of being highwaymen at his instigation) they were crimes against the Roman empire.

"A hypocrite says one thing, but thinks another." - TB Joshua
The hidden motives of SARASSIN concerning Jesus Christ is becoming clearer. His statements about the life of Jesus and the bibical accounts of this Holy Messiah are loaded with sarcastic contradictions. After closer examination it becomes obvious that SARASSIN is using cheap psycho on unsuspecting Christians to get them to seriously doubt their awesome faith and move over to other ungodly belief systems.

SARASSIN himself revealed that he uses more than six different gods to cater for his ego.

SARRASSIN : "Pilate would have held them responsible for Jesus’ declaration as the King of the Jews"
SCIENCEWATCH : He falsely claims here that Jesus declared that He is the King of the Jews.

SARASSIN : You have the biblical account of course, my point is that the biblical account is somewhat incomplete. I prefer actual historical accounts.
SCIENCEWATCH : Here you see how he uses subtle language to confuse you - he is actually saying that the Holy Bible is a book of fairy tales.

There is nothing new about the sly method SARASSIN is using to destroy religions. Highly technical and confusing language was used for hundreds of years by famous atheists that all eventually became insane. Einstein, Charles Darwin, Sigmund Freud, Nietzsche, and Isaac Newton all suffered spiritual problem/insanity as a direct result of mocking the God of the Holy Bible.

SARASSIN proudly says that "I prefer actual historical accounts." - of events that took place thousands of years ago ? ? ? ?
SCIENCEWATCH : Can we take him serious ?

Sarassin:


You have the biblical account of course, my point is that the biblical account is somewhat incomplete. I prefer actual historical accounts. Now, we know from the genuine Acta Pilati (311CE) and Comentarii of Tiberius that a warrant of arrest was issued for Jesus, there was a writ of indictment,(Libellus) detailing the charges, his description his full birth names (we know that the names Josephus gives us tallies with what Pilate recorded) and reward for his arrest, in addition there was the acta of preliminary enquiries (cognitio) as well as an iconismus (portrait) of the accused.

It is incorrect to state that Pilate was ignorant of the charge against Jesus, Jesus could never have been arrested without the warrant. In fact according to the records the Jewish authorities gave their information to the Roman Governor whilst Jesus was still at liberty, it was a singular act of self-preservation, clearly because Pilate would have held them responsible for Jesus’ declaration as the King of the Jews. The charge was sedition, brigandage and robbery (his followers were accused of being highwaymen at his instigation) they were crimes against the Roman empire.

"A hypocrite says one thing, but thinks another." - TB Joshua
The hidden motives of SARASSIN concerning Jesus Christ is becoming clearer. His statements about the life of Jesus and the bibical accounts of this Holy Messiah are loaded with sarcastic contradictions. After closer examination it becomes obvious that SARASSIN is using cheap psycho on unsuspecting Christians to get them to seriously doubt their awesome faith and move over to other ungodly belief systems.

SARASSIN himself revealed that he uses more than six different gods to cater for his ego.

SARRASSIN : "Pilate would have held them responsible for Jesus’ declaration as the King of the Jews"
SCIENCEWATCH : He falsely claims here that Jesus declared that He is the King of the Jews.

SARASSIN : You have the biblical account of course, my point is that the biblical account is somewhat incomplete. I prefer actual historical accounts.
SCIENCEWATCH : Here you see how he uses subtle language to confuse you - he is actually saying that the Holy Bible is a book of fairy tales.

There is nothing new about the sly method SARASSIN is using to destroy religions. Highly technical and confusing language was used for hundreds of years by famous atheists that all eventually became insane. Einstein, Charles Darwin, Sigmund Freud, Nietzsche, and Isaac Newton all suffered spiritual problem/insanity as a direct result of mocking the God of the Holy Bible.

SARASSIN proudly says that "I prefer actual historical accounts." - of events that took place thousands of years ago ? ? ? ?
SCIENCEWATCH : Can we take him serious ? Now, there are scientifically verifiable evidence of the WORKS of Jesus freely available to the world, thanks to Emmanuel TV, with thousand of personal testimonies that defy science and confirm all historic accounts of the mighty Jesus and the Book of Acts. If the bible was fake/fairy tale/tampered with/modified, then how is it possible two thousand years later to see abundant evidence that the core of the bible that all point to the mighty Jesus is true.

Sarassin:


Nice dissembling TB, but there's really no need to go that far abroad. In case it escaped you, I was referring to you and your organisation comprised of a staged miracle TV station, your self-serving justification of “works” as a means of subjugating your congregation through mental coercion, false indoctrination, extortionate charges for sundry items like well water and the use of sub-standard materials in clear violation of government building codes and illegal construction leading to the collapse of your building and the avoidable loss of uncountable lives for which you are presently seeking to avoid an indictment. What do you have to say about that?

It is a shame when a deluded person like SARASSIN falsely accuse a truly humble spirit of serious criminal activity.

Nairaland readers should carefully examine SARASSIN'S posts, you will find serious contradictions, deliberate falsity, mental coercion, false indoctrination, illegal biblical codes, fraudulent sentence construction, staged bible dissemination, sub-standard historical material etc.

Lol ! Is it not like the pot calling the kettle black ?

Sarassin: Well hello TB is that you in disguise? You took a wrong turn in addressing me today, you should have kept to your shameless plugging of the vile Emmanuel TV and the disaster zone you call a house of God, more importantly you ought to know I do not take lectures from those who feed on the misery of human souls, and you have the chutzpah to accuse me of contradictions? Didn’t your ineffable spirits reveal to you that I am male? Or is it just another case of you zigging when you should have zagged?

SCIENCEWATCH : Thanks anyway. Your severe emotional reaction helps us all to measure how far you are on your spiritual journey. What made me think you are female? I dont remember now. Oh, It could the the first part of SARA...SSIN. My apologies

You say you dont take lectures from anyone, but there are Profs, doctors, Theologians world-wide that spend a lot of money to travel from around the world to attend a lecture and get effective demonstrations of the true power of Jesus Christ from the holy prophet TB Joshua.

Would you happen to know why these highly educated people chose the Holy Prophet TB Joshua to lecture them ?

I await your soonest reply.

I can see that this is a very serious post - Re: What Do You Believe About Jesus And Why Do You Believe In Him.
Therefore, it require serious responses that can also help other readers here:

The whole Bible in many ways point to Jesus Christ. The ancient Holy Gospels and Acts powerfully demonstrate the exclusive power of the mighty Jesus Christ. Until now famous atheists, fake pastors, governments, kings etc have managed to deceive the world in to believing that the miracles, signs, prophecy etc, are fairy tales and that the bible is full of contradictions.

Jesus himself says that the miracles,signs, prophecy etc, must be done so that people will be amazed and glorify God. He also says that the exclusive miracles bear witness of Him and therefore it also bear witness of His pastors/disciples/ministers.
Joh 10:37 If I don’t do the miracles/ WORKS of my Father, don’t believe me.
Joh 14:12 Truly, Truly, I say to you, He that believes me, the miracles/ WORKS that I do will you also do; and greater (more) miracles/WORKS than these shall you do; because I must soon go unto my Father.
Joh 5:20 For the true God loves the Son, and shows Him all miracles that He does: and He will show me greater miracles/WORKS than these, so that you may be amazed and believe. Only the WORKS bear witness of a real pastor, not their elaborate speeches, conferences and motivational speeches. Joh 14:12

How awesome is this statement of Jesus ?
Joh 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the miracles/ WORKS which the Father has given me to finish, the same miracles/ WORKS that I do, bear witness for me, that the Father hath sent me.

Note : Go to SASASSIN'S post and see how he wish to confuse the relationship between Jesus and John.

Atheists foolishly think they have come up with new ways to attack Jesus's miracles. Two thousand years ago confused aesthetic Pharisees believed that Satan can do deliverance.
Mat 9:34 But the Pharisees said, He delivers out evil spirits through the prince of the devils.
Jesus said to them that Satan can not, will not work against himself. Therefore, deliverance comes from God !

I can see that this is a very serious post - Re: What Do You Believe About Jesus And Why Do You Believe In Him.
Therefore, it require serious responses that can also help other readers here:

The whole Bible in many ways point to Jesus Christ. The ancient Holy Gospels and Acts powerfully demonstrate the exclusive power of the mighty Jesus Christ. Until now famous atheists, fake pastors, governments, kings etc have managed to deceive the world in to believing that the miracles, signs, prophecy etc, are fairy tales and that the bible is full of contradictions.

Jesus himself says that the miracles,signs, prophecy etc, must be done so that people will be amazed and glorify God. He also says that the exclusive miracles bear witness of Him and therefore it also bear witness of His "true" pastors/disciples/ministers.
Joh 10:37 If I don’t do the miracles/ WORKS of my Father, don’t believe me.
Joh 14:12 Truly, Truly, I say to you, He that believes me, the miracles/ WORKS that I do will you also do; and greater (more) miracles/WORKS than these shall you do; because I must soon go unto my Father.
Joh 5:20 For the true God loves the Son, and shows Him all miracles that He does: and He will show me greater miracles/WORKS than these, so that you may be amazed and believe. Only the WORKS bear witness of a real pastor, not their elaborate speeches, conferences and motivational speeches. Joh 14:12

How awesome is this statement of Jesus ?
Joh 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the miracles/ WORKS which the Father has given me to finish, the same miracles/ WORKS that I do, bear witness for me, that the Father hath sent me.

Note : Go to SASASSIN'S post and see how he wish to confuse the relationship between Jesus and John.

Atheists foolishly think they have come up with new ways to attack Jesus's miracles. Two thousand years ago confused aesthetic Pharisees believed that Satan can do deliverance.
Mat 9:34 But the Pharisees said, He delivers out evil spirits through the prince of the devils.
Jesus said to them that Satan can not, will not work against himself. Therefore, deliverance comes from God !

Thanks to the truly blessed Scoan Church Nigeria, and their generous spiritual education channel, Emmanuel TV the whole world now have daily access to powerful never seen before evidence of the WORKS of the mighty Jesus Christ that can be easily scientifically verified
so that according to Jesus, that all will be amazed and then believe. Miracles aid believing.

adepeter26:

For the last time, i will say you are a promoter of SCOAN. thanks.

When you became aware of the many people that hate the WORKS of Jesus Christ as demonstrated by the mind blowing help given freely to the suffering masses including royality, presidents, doctors etc, every evil attempt is made to destroy the Holy Scoan Church Nigeria.

Today most churches are simply glorified motivational centres that offer nice sounding words and aggressive money collections without the Resurrection Power needed to save the suffering persons.
The abundance of live testimonies is breath-taking. The Holy Prophet TB Joshua says, “It is a sin for sick people to go into any church of Jesus CHRIST and go home the same.” It is written, “Jesus and His Pastors healed everyone.” Freely – No charge !

What are these WORKS that Jesus always refer to ?
They are the miracles, prophecy, signs and wonders. Jesus also instructs all pastors, ministers, evangelists to do the same, He says to them,” As my father sent me, so send I you.” )


Jesus said, “Come to me, I will make your burdens light.” When the creation power of Jesus and the Holy Spirit is not seen in any church, the problem is with the Pastor.

The congregations Faith is always enough as consistently shown in the Holy Scoan Church Nigeria and in the holy gospels and the Books of Acts. Emmanuel TV is truly a gift from God to the whole world.