ifyalways:

Seems some posts where deleted
@Nwa-uwa,which kain Kweshion be dis,karry your time ooh.
Lagosboy,still going through your replies,seems i missed some things,wud be back soon.

Always welcomed Ify , hope you had a wonderful holiday and you were up to great things. Yes i think some of usisky posts were removed as he used some language like my "demise" when i challenged him to a debate. I am still expecting him on the thread i created. Anyway lets not get distracted, go throught the replies and ask what you dont understand, otherwise you could carry on with your questions and queries Insh Allah

Lagosboy:

Always welcomed Ify , hope you had a wonderful holiday and you were up to great things. Yes i think some of usisky posts were removed as he used some language like my "demise" when i challenged him to a debate. I am still expecting him on the thread i created. Anyway lets not get distracted, go throught the replies and ask what you dont understand, otherwise you could carry on with your questions and queries Insh Allah

Thanks,my hols were great.
Lagosboy,what is ablution b4 prayers?Why must i do it b4 i pray?

Thanks for your question Ify
Allah says in the quran 5 v 6
"O you who believe! When you intend to offer As-Salat (the prayer), wash your faces and your hands (forearms) up to the elbows, rub (by passing wet hands over) your heads, and (wash) your feet up to ankles . If you are in a state of Janaba (i.e. had a sexual discharge), purify yourself (bathe your whole body). But if you are ill or on a journey or any of you comes from answering the call of nature, or you have been in contact with women (i.e. sexual intercourse) and you find no water, then perform Tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands. Allah does not want to place you in difficulty, but He wants to purify you, and to complete His Favour on you that you may be thankful.

2v222 ". . . . . .Truly, Allah loves those who turn unto Him in repentance and loves those who purify themselves (by taking a bath and cleaning and washing thoroughly their private parts, bodies, for their prayers, etc.)

The purpose of ablution is to purify ourselves spiritually and not really physical cleanliness although it is part of it. God loves those who are pure and want us to pray to him in cleanliness and spiritual cleanliness. The practise of purification with water is an age long thing practised by the Abarahim faiths and it is still done by the jews as well and I suppose the orthodox christians till date.

To butress that the purification is spiritual if there is no water, or the beleiver is ill and cannot use water to purify himself, we are told to use sand as humans are from clay anyway. Clean sand(like beach sand and sorts) or stone is touched by the believer dusts his hand and rubs his hand and face.

Praying to Allah is like communicating with him and the prophet PBUH said salah is the connection between Allah and we, hence the need to pufify themselves before standing before him.

And God knows best.

Lagosboy,its 2010.welcome to the year,have a good one too.
Did the prophet fight any war whlist alive?
what does Islam say abt sex before marriage?
why is a man permitted to marry more than one wife?are there conditions a man such a man must meet?
Is there any Muslim governing body in Nigeria?

ifyalways:

Lagosboy,its 2010.welcome to the year,have a good one too.
Did the prophet fight any war whlist alive?

Thanx Ify, its another day another year, seasons greetings to you 

The Prophet PBUH did fight a few battles in his life time, and he led by example in those battles just like earlier prophets PBUT fought battles for the cause of God on earth. From David to Solomon,Moses to Joshua PBUT all. The Prophet PBUH was given the message of prophethood and for 13 solid years he beared the most difficult of humilation and sanctions from the pagans of arabia. He only had 70-100 converts and they were tortured , punished and a few were murdered yet he did not fight them neither did he retaliate,even his strong companions like Hamzah RA (his uncle) wanted to retaliate but they prophet PBUH always insisted my Lord has not commanded me to fight so let us bare this with patience. The Prophet PBUH and his companions were exiled from Makkah to the deserts for three years and embargo was placed on them not to trade with anyone and non of the pagans were permitted to deal with the muslims, to the extent that the muslims went 17 days without food but they survived on few dates and water. It was the peak of sufferings indeed and sanctions are not new to muslims when some western countries sing sanctions, our beloved Prophet and the early muslims went through difficult sanctions for nothing except the believed in Allah. Like Allah talked about the early believers of old "  . . .They had nothing against them, except that they believed in Allâh, the All-Mighty, Worthy of all Praise" Q85 vs 8

Another example was when the Prophet went to preach to a people in the village of ta'if, he went to spread the word of God but he was humilated and stones were thrown at him, it was indeed a horrible incident. He prayed to God and angel Jibreel came down and asked the prophet to command him to destroy the people of ta'if for their serious crime. The prophet PBUh asked angel Jibreel to spare them and perhaps their children would become muslims and indeed after few years the whole village accepted islam. That was the mercy of the prophet and indded Allahs says in quran " . . . You are indeed a mercy to mankind".

However, after the migration of the Prophet PBUH to medina (quite a long story, insha Allah we would talk about this another day) The number of the muslims grew slightly and after some few skirmishes between the pagans and a few muslims a battle broke down. The command to fight was revealed:
"Permission to fight is given to those (i.e. believers against disbelievers), who are fighting them, (and) because they (believers) have been wronged, and surely, Allâh is Able to give them (believers) victory. Those who have been expelled from their homes unjustly only because they said: "Our Lord is Allâh." - For had it not been that Allâh checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, wherein the Name of Allâh is mentioned much would surely have been pulled down. Verily, Allâh will help those who help His (Cause). Truly, Allâh is All-Strong, All-Mighty. Q22 v 39

This battle was the first Battle in islam it is called the Battle of Badr, the miracle of this was that the muslims were 313 and the pagans were 1000. Indeed muslims do not fight based on number but their belief in and trust in Allah. God granted the muslims victory and the enemy were repelled. The battle was led by the prophet personally and it was the first of around 27 battles he phsyically led. Medina and its transit trade route became a bit safer for the muslims to move around.

This battles should be looked at with the eyes of the historical context of old, when wars were the means of settling issues and it is still the same till now and wars will be forever fought till the end of time. The jews fought wars , the chritsians did , the earlier Prophets of God did and it is the practical reality of the world we live in.

The Prophet was a complete leader,general,statesman, economist , politican and a Prophet of God.

And God knows best

ifyalways:

what does Islam say abt sex before marriage?
Is there any Muslim governing body in Nigeria?

Sex before marriage is forbideen in islam and sex is permited between married couples. Sex before marriage is classified as fornication and we call it Zina in arabic. There is no other view to this in islam it is straight a NO.

I will have to ask you what exactly you mean by a governing body, do you mean an umbrella for muslim organistions or a muslim government? This is my own first question to you , haba i deserve to ask you as well nah


I saw you were the culture poster of the year congratulations to you o, but we suppose wash am nah How we go was am , isiewu with some ogbono soup go match yelllow garri o.

Hi Lagosboy,
I would like to know why Islam permits a human being to issue a death sentence on another human being (called a fatwa) without any trial as in the case of Salman Rushdie??

Is God not able to punish injustice to him? A somali man was caught in Denmark yesterday trying to kill the controversial cartoon author,in response to a 'fatwa'. Why is this?

hymen:

Hi Lagosboy,
I would like to know why Islam permits a human being to issue a death sentence on another human being (called a fatwa) without any trial as in the case of Salman Rushdie??

Is God not able to punish injustice to him? A somali man was caught in Denmark yesterday trying to kill the controversial cartoon author,in response to a 'fatwa'. Why is this?

Welcome Hymen,

In islamic jurispudence , fatwa does not mean death sentence, I dont know if you have read this thread completly because Ify asked a similar question already and i answered her. Fatwa is an edict, an intepretation of the law regarding the application of the law to our daily affaiirs. What Salaman Rushdie and this Danish dude did were terrible acts of blasphemy spiced up with unfounded lies. In an islamic state these acts will be considered as treasonable felony, the culprit will face a judiciary and it will be determined if he his of sane mind and his reasons for such. The punishment is indeed death penalty without mincing words and being honest as the well being of the society is greater than any individual, any act that could destablise the islamic state and sow the seeds of sedition, mischief and corruption has to be uprooted from the roots and not branches to prevent chaos in the state.

In the case of Rushdie, the fatwa was by Ayatollah in Iran and i want to believe it was a symbolic one to ward off future acts , otherwise they could have eliminated Rushdie silenly without the hulabaloo of a publicised fatwa. I am not a shia which the ayatollah is but i know he his a trained Jurist of the shia islamic jurispudence. There is what we call trial in absentia in law and the Secular courts practise it as well, the ayatollah would have carried out such and determined that was the punishment.

Blasphemy against any of the prophets of God  PBUT all , is a crime in islam that is why we do not show images of any of the prophets neither do we believe Jesus PBUh is the blonde blue eyed pony tailed image seen in the world. When a cartoonist understand this is a taboo in Islam why stir the Bee's nest by a well calculated and deliberate infamous act. All religions are to be respected and in Islam we are not meant to curse the gods of other faiths, we are never to destroy churches , fight monks and so on. we could debate and destroy the foundations of the other religions intellectually but not ridicule their prophets as they our prophets as well.

And God knows best.

Lagosboy ,you are really cool dude,I strongly believe you should be a Christian. I see the genuine fear of God in you ,because no muslim i have met accepts this:

Lagosboy:

All religions are to be respected and in Islam we are not meant to curse the gods of other faiths, we are never to destroy churches , fight monks and so on. we could debate and destroy the foundations of the other religions intellectually but not ridicule their prophets as they our prophets as well.
And God knows best.

As a follow up to the fatwa question,how can this law possibly affect non-muslims & non citizens of the country the fatwa was declared. Secondly ,don't you think we would be going back tothe era of vigilantes ,if people are instruted to kill another person,as in the case of the somali man arrested 3 days ago trying to kill the danish cartoon author?

hymen:

Lagosboy ,you are really cool dude,I strongly believe you should be a Christian. I see the genuine fear of God in you ,because no muslim i have met accepts this:

Thanks for your comments hymen but I am a muslim  and with the mercy of God will die a muslim  . Perhaps we could open another thread to explain to you why i am not a christian or by the mercy of God will never be one. You could stay on the thread and learn a bit more about islam with an open mind, perhaps you would sense its beauty and purity. It is a shame many non muslims meet muslims before they meet islam, If you meet islam before the muslims , becoming a muslim would not have been so difficult  . Muslims are not pefect and are human beings but many are far from islam in practice. 

As a follow up to the fatwa question,how can this law possibly affect non-muslims & non citizens of the country the fatwa was declared. Secondly ,don't you think we would be going back tothe era of vigilantes ,if people are instruted to kill another person,as in the case of the somali man arrested 3 days ago trying to kill the danish cartoon author?

No we do not believe in jungle justice in islam, vigilantes and sorts cannot kill without a judicial process. In an islamic state there are courts and the "leader" charges the suspect to court where the qadi will judge. The Somali man acted on his own and no one instructed him to do so, he believed that would have been the judgement and went to act on his own. However in an islamc state the citizens will not act on their own but there is no true islamic state presently which is the reason for some confusion.

Non muslims living in the islamic state the law affects, but in a non muslim country , I honestly cannot say. In islam half of knowledge is to be honest and say "I do not know". On this one i dont know but could find out.

N.B find some spare time to go through the whole thread , perhaps some of your questions/reservations might have been answered

Lagosboy:

. . . . but in a non muslim country , I honestly cannot say. In islam half of knowledge is to be honest and say "I do not know". On this one i dont know but could find out.

i don't mean to patronise you,but You also earned my respect on this one my friend. The fact is Christians too cannot explain EVERYTHING,there are somethings we all look forward to learning whenever we get to heaven. I wish everyone could accept this fact ,rather than get aggressive while sticking to issues one can't explain. . . . .

I however disagree with issuing fatwas calling for someone to be killed,anybody that commits blasphemy,should be tried (even in absentia) and the sentence can only be carried out within the jurisdiction of the courts of that land. We have something similar with the international court in the hague. But when every muslim feels obliged to carry out a fatwa calling for someone's death,we are going back to the era of jungle justice. No matter how wicked and emotional a crime might be,we must follow laws,nobody is above the law,both the issuer of fatwa and the blasphemer !!!

The prophet fought 27 battles.kind of strange and not-too-good,IMO. 

Lagosboy:

Sex before marriage is forbideen in islam and sex is permited between married couples. Sex before marriage is classified as fornication and we call it Zina in arabic. There is no other view to this in islam it is straight a NO.

I will have to ask you what exactly you mean by a governing body, do you mean an umbrella for muslim organistions or a muslim government? This is my own first question to you , haba i deserve to ask you as well nah     


I saw you were the culture poster of the year congratulations to you o, but we suppose wash am nah  How we go was am , isiewu with some ogbono soup go match yelllow garri o. 

I meant a Muslim governing body.
Noo,its ewedu and okro plus smooth amala with enough egunfe,kpomo,shaki . . . .etc.lol

@Hymen,i swear its not just Lagosboy,there are lots of cool muslims out there esp non-Nigerians.I kinda cant understand why most Muslims from the North are T-R-O-U-B-L-E,them and the Arabs.My best friends are Muslims and they are sooooooo cool,peaceful and honest.
@Lagosboy,i experienced this and i need answers ASAP 
I went to a mosque recently,outside 9ja and right in the premises,a talisman displayed his wares and ppl just coming out from prayers were patronising.Is this common?Is it allowed in Islam?

ifyalways:

The prophet fought 27 battles.kind of strange and not-too-good,IMO.  I meant a Muslim governing body.

Ify its not strange at all if you look at the historical context of the time, the arabs are very strong minded and tough people, they were very tribal and lived in dark ages before islam. The muslims brought a new social order and life that threatened the cultutral practice and order of the time, letting go of their practices was very difficult so the muslims were under constant threat from the Pagans. Without them battles, the muslims would have been uprooted and obiliterated by the pagans . Thus Allah send in the qur'an to the muslims "And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the Cause of Allâh, and for those weak, ill­treated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help."  Q4 v 75

His battles were largely defensive and to save the muslims of the time from the pagans, jewish tribes and all other enemies of the new faith. Verily all the prophets of God faced resistance from their people and People like Noah,Hud,Solih PBUT all God destroyed the enemies himself but later on He commanded the believers to defend themselves and also to test their faith.

Noo,its ewedu and okro plus smooth amala with enough egunfe,kpomo,shaki . . . .etc.lol

That na yoruba food nah, i won proper igbo meal 

@Hymen,i swear its not just Lagosboy,there are lots of cool muslims out there esp non-Nigerians.I kinda cant understand why most Muslims from the North are T-R-O-U-B-L-E,them and the Arabs.My best friends are Muslims and they are sooooooo cool,peaceful and honest.

True talk Ify there are millions of muslims out there who hold true to their faith and seeing islam through them is accepting islam, however we also have bad muslims who appear to be islamic but dont hold true to the beliefs of islam. We are humans after all. Hymen I am sure the more you open your mind the more you will begin to appreciate muslims around you even here on NL, however please study islam without the pre concieved mindset of some bad muslims you might have encountered. Every has its bad eggs, although I am not a christian and I disagree with the christian ideology I have never castigated the whole of christianity never!! on the basis of some bad pastors or fetish practices and whole lot of things. There are indeed good christians, there were in the time of the Prophet PBUH and there are still some around till date.

@Lagosboy,i experienced this and i need answers ASAP 
I went to a mosque recently,outside 9ja and right in the premises,a talisman displayed his wares and ppl just coming out from prayers were patronising.Is this common?Is it allowed in Islam?

If you dont mind me asking, where is this mosque located because even as bad as things are with some muslims in Nigeria they will not sell such things in public glare. Are you sure of what you saw ? Because in the UK people sell things like perfumes in small bottles etc

Charms of whatever form is not islamic and in fact islam condemns it in the strongest of forms, the using of charms translates to SHIRK (associating partners with God) which negates ones belief in his ONENESS, hence negating ones  islam and such a person is indeed NOT a muslim even if he appears to be one or practices some islamic rituals.

As muslims we are to rely solely on Allah for everything from worship to guidance to sustenance etc. Relying on the devil or a jinn translates to not relying in Allah, such practices are what made the pagans of Makkah pagans not muslims as they believed in God but they worshipped him through idols. Hence, Ify if it is indeed what you saw then it is not islamic i must say but  could you describe exactly what you saw?

And God knows Best

Oh forgot the muslim governing body me was thinking of the isiewu

Yes there are are few bodies in Nigeria and i suppose the Supreme council for Islamic Affairs is the highest body in Nigeria, i could be wrong though. However in the north , there is the Jamatu nasrul islam and in the south there are a few bodies like Ansar u deen. Nawar u deen and co. Theses latter ones are more like organisations but the most political one is the SCIA headed by the sultan of sokoto with its secretary general being Dr Lateef Adegbite. On this question please anyone familiar with islamic events in Nigeria should help me out as this info could well be outdated.

Lagosboy:

Oh forgot the muslim governing body me was thinking of the isiewu
On this question please anyone familiar with islamic events in Nigeria should help me out as this info could well be outdated.

Yes,we have Ahmadiyya as well

You cheeky those are not considered muslims by the whole body of muslims all around the world for believing in another pfrophet Ghulam Ahmad of the 19th century.

Ify meant a governing body not sects or denominations or organisations.

probably the best thread I've come across on NL!
this thread has spanned months and both decent people here have kept at it most decently - congratulations!
I have a feeling Jarus has also been helpful in keeping this clean by deleting stray posts.
I hope we all can keep it like this - decent.
May Allah (SWT) reward Lagosboy for this great effort.
I hope Ify finds this most useful and helpful - and other seekers of Truth too.
I hope also that folks will spare this thread of the usual pollution.

Welcome bro

@ Lagosboy, may Allah bless u and answer all your prayers.

tanimz:

@ Lagosboy, may Allah bless u and answer all your prayers.

Ameen Ya Mujeeb! sis and you too plus all the opressed muslims all round the world.

Where have you been you just disappeared from the thread we did miss you though

Lagosboy:

Ameen Ya Mujeeb! sis and you too plus all the opressed muslims all round the world.

Where have you been you just disappeared from the thread we did miss you though

Ive been around, I pop in whenever I can. Im not good at preaching and stuff like that but whenever I can chip in I do so.

Lagosboy,You missed one of the questions i asked u earlier.Why are men permitted to marry more than one wife?Is there any condition a man wud meet b4 he wud be allowed to take 2 or more wives?
I asked abt the Muslim governing body cos i want to know what they are doing in terms of enlightement etc.I have been monitoring Muslims and Islams from afar for quite sometime and from the little i know,i think most of the problems we have arise from the fact that Muslim is a religion that demands total obeidence.PPl easily get misled esp the not-so-educated ones(perfect example is Northern 9ja).I wish the body is more outspoken,come out openly to denounce some of the fractions and pratices that are non-Islamic.
Abt the mosque and charms sometin,like i said it was not in 9ja,i saw it live and direct.I even asked the man some questions and he claimed some of the charms are got from The Koran.sumtin like a very funny contraception method. . .couples get their name written down on some slate,a verse of the Koran is written on same slate,slate gets cleaned out with water and wife drinks the water and voila,she becomes infertile.lol i find that very funny  .
Anyway,its all abt educating.The ppl that are in the know shld educate others,it wud really help.

agabaI23:

Hahahaha.
Onye asiri,who called ur name?

ifyalways:

Lagosboy,You missed one of the questions i asked u earlier.Why are men permitted to marry more than one wife?Is there any condition a man wud meet b4 he wud be allowed to take 2 or more wives?
I asked abt the Muslim governing body cos i want to know what they are doing in terms of enlightement etc.I have been monitoring Muslims and Islams from afar for quite sometime and from the little i know,i think most of the problems we have arise from the fact that Muslim is a religion that demands total obeidence.PPl easily get misled esp the not-so-educated ones(perfect example is Northern 9ja).I wish the body is more outspoken,come out openly to denounce some of the fractions and pratices that are non-Islamic.
Abt the mosque and charms sometin,like i said it was not in 9ja,i saw it live and direct.I even asked the man some questions and he claimed some of the charms are got from The Koran.sumtin like a very funny contraception method. . .couples get their name written down on some slate,a verse of the Koran is written on same slate,slate gets cleaned out with water and wife drinks the water and voila,she becomes infertile.lol i find that very funny  .
Anyway,its all abt educating.The ppl that are in the know shld educate others,it wud really help.Hahahaha.

Oh yeah i get your reason, there have been loads of organisations in Nigeria. Some have been active in the past and some have not been active in the field of dawah. The problem with Nigeria is the earlier organisations were run by our fathers and they were a bit lax in their approach and the message wasnt appealling to the younger generations which created a vacum. However there has been a resurgence in the dawah in Nigeria especially in the universities which has created a positive ripple effect in the society. There is still much to be done in the dawah in Nigeria, i quite agree with you.

Could someone in the house shed more light on the islamic activity in Nigeria , I am not as curren tas i used to be and lost touch. Jarus or anyother person could you please help Ify out on this.

Regarding the talisman thing, please disregard what the man sid. There are a few cultutral practices that has been inserted into islam and such things are rampant in africa and asia, including a few arab countries. Most of them practices have nothing do with islam, many organisations have been active in denouncing such activities but some of these people stick to their practices.

Ify why not start to teach some people as well what do you think   

Wud answer the polygamy thing next

ifyalways:

Lagosboy,You missed one of the questions i asked u earlier.Why are men permitted to marry more than one wife?Is there any condition a man wud meet b4 he wud be allowed to take 2 or more wives?

Polygamy Hot subject even among muslim women that were born into islam .

Polygamy has been a practice amongst all nations of the world since time imemmorial, it was prevalent in arabia pre-islam, in the time of Jesus PBUH, Moses PBUH, Abraham PBUH. Islam only came to set a limit to it and the limit was in the quran Q4 v 3 " . . .then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one . . . The condition a man must meet is the ability to deal justice with them in human context. The justice mentioned is not love as that is beyond human control but equality in attention, time, gifts, material things and fair treatment of the women.

The wisdom behind polygamy is numerous and can never be over emphasised, there were more women than men in that time and even till date, men are the protectors of women in islam and a woman has the right to have a husband to take care of her materially, emotionally, sexually and sorts. If one man was to stick to one woman there will be loads of women without husband hence denied that marital experience made by God.

The companions of the prophet PBUH never used to live a woman single especially widows, divorced women , orphan girls, the companions used to take responsibility of these women providing their needs and being their husbands. Arabs pre islam used to have 10 or more wives but islam set a limit of four and whoever goes beyond that would have transgressed the limits set by Allah.

Somebody might say but things have changed in modern times so polygamy is not needed but i say a big No, there are still more women than men statictics tell us and polygamy exists in many cultures round the world but without guidance on how to practise it. In yoruba culture for example polygamy exists but the first wife will be called a senior wife and could boss the other wives around , In islam this is wrong as the wives will be equal and there is no senior or junior , this is not to say the younger wives will not respect the older or first wives. In hausa culture it is common practise when a man takes another wife he neglects the previous wives which is wrong in islam as the first wife should never be deined her right even if the man takes younger and attractive wives.

I dont like to delve into other faiths here but let me say that as far as i am aware no verse in the bible categorically prohibits polygamy as these was practised by many prophets of God in the bible as well. The references in the new testament about a man and his wife being one is subject to interpretation. Monogomy is more of a modern culture as to religious prohibition, The king of england broke away from catholism and formed the anglicn church because he was refused the permission to take a second wife.

Lastly, lots of people are hypocritical when it comes to this issue men will have one wife and 10 concubines who should have been dignified and taken as a wife rather than a mistress with no rights. Egbon Olabowale will be able to shed more light on this subject please as i dont think i have been able to do justice to this subject

Could someone in the house shed more light on the islamic activity in Nigeria , I am not as curren tas i used to be and lost touch. Jarus or anyother person could you please help Ify out on this.

Muslim organisations make alot of efforts in educating ppl all over the country. I'm aware of the efforts of the TMC, the Deen Digest brothers in Lagos, the Markaz Dawah in Lagos, the Tadaomun in Ibadan, the Izalatu bid'a in the north, the MSSN all over the country and others that I may not remember to mention. One of the major hindrances is fund to put most of their programms on air.

Somebody might say but things have changed in modern times so polygamy is not needed but i say a big No, there are still more women than men statictics tell us and polygamy exists in many cultures round the world but without guidance on how to practise it.

I agree with you 100% that nothing has changed with regard to the population of male-female with female being more than the males. If you are previleged to know what happens in organisations where there are males and females you will see many women who are needy of husbands. The fact remains that Allaah, Who knows ppl's condition has allowed polygamy has a solution to many problems.
Allaah knows best.

May Allah reward you bro, nice input.

Ify , like bro iwaboy said i think money is a major stumbling block as well to get the mesage across to the very fabric of the muslim society.

iwaboy:

Muslim organisations make alot of efforts in educating ppl all over the country. I'm aware of the efforts of the TMC, the Deen Digest brothers in Lagos, the Markaz Dawah in Lagos, the Tadaomun in Ibadan, the Izalatu bid'a in the north, the MSSN all over the country and others that I may not remember to mention. One of the major hindrances is fund to put most of their programms on air.I agree with you 100% that nothing has changed with regard to the population of male-female with female being more than the males. If you are previleged to know what happens in organisations where there are males and females you will see many women who are needy of husbands. The fact remains that Allaah, Who knows ppl's condition has allowed polygamy has a solution to many problems.
Allaah knows best.

Nice input. These organizations are trying to return people to the path of pristine Islam as against the spread of innovative practices. I am personally a product a product of MSSN as the little I know about Islam was inspired by MSSN while in the Uni.

Jarus:

Nice input. These organizations are trying to return people to the path of pristine Islam as against the spread of innovative practices. I am personally a product a product of MSSN as the little I know about Islam was inspired by MSSN while in the Uni.

Probably a misnomer. . . . . .whats pristine to you may not be pristine to others . . . . . . .

Religion like all things in life MUST evolve.

Changing religion during the Meccan wars was equal to treason,now no such thing as an islamic Caliphate exists,you are a Nigerian,you can change your faith without someone charging you for apostacy . . . . so 'innovation' is more like 'modern (read proper)interpretation' if you ask me.

Then of course Shia,Alevi,Ahmadi all believe in God and share common aspirations for the after life,tho' they may not be 'pristine' to you.

On the other hand Osama Bin Hiding/Farouk may be 'too pristine' for you.

So beauty as they say ,is in the eyes of the beholder

Jairzinho:

Probably a misnomer. . . . . .whats pristine to you may not be pristine to others . . . . . . .

Religion like all things in life MUST evolve.

Changing religion during the Meccan wars was equal to treason,now no such thing as an islamic Caliphate exists,you are a Nigerian,you can change your faith without someone charging you for apostacy . . . . so 'innovation' is more like 'modern (read proper)interpretation' if you ask me.

Then of course Shia,Alevi,Ahmadi all believe in God and share common aspirations for the after life,tho' they may not be 'pristine' to you.

On the other hand Osama Bin Hiding/Farouk may be 'too pristine' for you.

So beauty as they say ,is in the eyes of the beholder

Bismillah Rahmani raheem

Buddie , when muslims talk about pristine islam in Nigerian context we understand what we talk about , and when Jarus talks about it as against innovative practices we also understand what we talk about. Every country or society understands the challenges they face regarding the practice of their faith. In Nigeria innoovative practices is not what you understand by "innovation" . In islam we do not have innovation into matters regarding our daily worship as that is all fixed based on fixed principles. The innovative practices Jarus meant was things that could be termed as fetish, cultutral practices, things that we cannot find evidences for in our religion but practised by some due to ignorance and a host of other things.

Also, regarding the issue of modern interpretation , islam is a dynamic religion on its own and especially the issue of islamic law, we have fixed non negotiable principles but the application is dynamic and evolves with evolving society which makes the quran and islam fit any age in time. I do not want to go into details as it could be a bit technical and confusing to some but we do not need modern re interpretation because we already have scholars of usul ul fiqh (Prinicples of islamic Jurispudence) who use the fixed prinicples to apply islam to the cotemporary world, an example here would be Islamic banking, inusrance,islamic bonds - Sukook and a host of other things.

Also, you mentioned a shia, alevi, ahamdi please these sects you mentioned are not of the same category in the least as you cannot place the major shia among the ahmadi or worse still alevis, alevis are not muslims as they belief in the trinitarian concept of Allah, Ali and Muhammed, Ahmadis are not muslims as they belief in another prophet like i highlighted earlier. I will not like to deviate the thread but please these are not sects but a different religion to the islam known to 99% of muslims. In islam it is not a case of beauty is in the eyes of the beholder as we have the quran which has the underlining princples of islam. Any one who claims to be a muslim and doesnt believe in the underlining prinicples can never be said to be muslims.

We have variances in understnding in issues of jurispudence which is normal and higlights the richness and wealth of knowldge in the field and hence have a few schools of thought but the issue of pristine islam Jarus meant is nothing to do with schools of thought. Jarus was speaking in the context of Nigeria as that was the subject of discussion and Nigerians are mainly sunni, follow mainly the Maliki school but some muslims engage in alien practices to islam(sorcery,charms,heretic beliefs etc) which needs correction hence the term "Pristine islam" which is also what Ify meant when she wanted to know which muslim body are there to take the proper understanding to the populace.

And God knows best

N.B Jarus i hope I got you right.

My guy ,your point is very clear,however I pick some holes in you comments

Interpretation of scriptures itself isn't unique to any one school/individual (Islam has many),the popular sword verse used by Osama bin Hiding(Koran 9:5) is interpreted in different ways by you & him (I hope ! ).

Also saying Alevis,Ismailia,Alawi,Shias & Ahmadi aren't pristine muslims is YOUR OWN interpretation of the scriptures,because if you ask a Shia,Alevi or Ahmadi,they will tell you THEY ARE MUSLIMS. This divergent view on doctrine & theology isn't unique to Islam however,in the christian world(in Nigeria) some believe Celestial church,T.B Joshua aren't christians,but the adherents believe they are.

So my point is since none of us is the Almighty Himself,we shouldn't be quick to conclude on people's faith. I remember a long time ago,some would look at me & say Im not a christian becos of so,so & so ,some would say a lady putting of trousers/perming her hair- has left the christian faith etc.

We can disagree on doctrine etc,but lets not be quick to say someone is an infidel or isn't a muslim/christian cos its out of our hands really !!

So 'pristine' is relative. For e.g zayhal believes that when someone says 'Happy new year' to a muslim, he/she mustn't respond- Is this 'pristine islam' or going over the top ??

So my submission. . . .faith by its very definition is spiritual (probably illogical -in the physical sense),we shouldn't try to rationalise it.

The second and most important of my points is that religion can be mixed easily with politics,culture,customs and traditions & adherents won't know the difference.

If you follow US politics a lot,& you'll notice that the right-wing (mainly republicans) easily sell their talking points using issues of faith,so one would believe its a 'christian point of view',however you'd be surprised the hypocrisy going on.


What is Islam position on Global warming & cruelty to animals.

Jairzinho:

My guy ,your point is very clear,however I pick some holes in you comments

Interpretation of scriptures itself isn't unique to any one school/individual (Islam has many),the popular sword verse used by Osama bin Hiding(Koran 9:5) is interpreted in different ways by you & him (I hope ! ).

Also saying Alevis,Ismailia,Alawi,Shias & Ahmadi aren't pristine muslims is YOUR OWN interpretation of the scriptures,because if you ask a Shia,Alevi or Ahmadi,they will tell you THEY ARE MUSLIMS. This divergent view on doctrine & theology isn't unique to Islam however,in the christian world(in Nigeria) some believe Celestial church,T.B Joshua aren't christians,but the adherents believe they are.

So my point is since none of us is the Almighty Himself,we shouldn't be quick to conclude on people's faith. I remember a long time ago,some would look at me & say Im not a christian becos of so,so & so ,some would say a lady putting of trousers/perming her hair- has left the christian faith etc.

We can disagree on doctrine etc,but lets not be quick to say someone is an infidel or isn't a muslim/christian cos its out of our hands really !!

So 'pristine' is relative. For e.g zayhal believes that when someone says 'Happy new year' to a muslim, he/she mustn't respond- Is this 'pristine islam' or going over the top ??

So my submission. . . .faith by its very definition is spiritual (probably illogical -in the physical sense),we shouldn't try to rationalise it.

The second and most important of my points is that religion can be mixed easily with politics,culture,customs and traditions & adherents won't know the difference.

If you follow US politics a lot,& you'll notice that the right-wing (mainly republicans) easily sell their talking points using issues of faith,so one would believe its a 'christian point of view',however you'd be surprised the hypocrisy going on.


What is Islam position on Global warming & cruelty to animals.

Buddie Again the issue with the sects you quoted is like i said pls dont put the shia with those sects as they are not on that level at all, sunnis might disagree with the shia but majority of muslims consider them muslims and vice versa. Ahmadi, Alevi are not "sects" if you study the ideolgy they claim to be another faith entire but still use the name muslim, alevi thinking predates islam and ahmadi thinking only started in the 19th century if you get me.

The issue of Pristine islam like i said is contextual and what Jarus meant was nothing do with sects and stuff, but what i explained. In islam we have divergent views in issues of doctrine and theology and as a student of "ilm kalam" (theology and its philosophy) i have studied several theologies within islam, there are many varying opinions true but all the proponents of this opinion are still muslims as we all agree on the basic fundamentals. I understand the point you are trying to highlight very well but because you are obviously not a real student of islamic knowledge(and majority of muslims fall into this category ) you are looking at the issue as a general one . Shias and sunni yes but not the alevi ,ismaila or ahmadi as they dont believe in the fundmental doctrine :

Belief in the One God and Prophet Muhammed PBUH as the last and final messenger of Allah.

Alevi and Ahamdi dont believe in this fundamental doctrine. This is nothing to do with interepreattion or varicance of opinion it is the very core of the faith. If anyone dont beleive in Jesus can never be said to be a christian or if anyone believes in the message of another Prophet after Jesus for example Muhammaed PBUH automaticlly becomes a muslim and ceases to be a christian. I hope you get where i am comming from, this is not an issue of sect, difference of opinion or group it is a matter of the very core fundamental of a faith. Can anyone believe in God and yet claim to be an atheist , obviously No! if he claims to be a sect of atheism then he will be a joker. Can a jew believe in the message of Jesus PBUH and yet still claim to be a sect of Judaism? Obviously No! and if he insists he will be a comedian in the rank of Chris rock, or our own basket mouth!

Other variance issues exist in islam definitly and disagreement among scholars but these are all muslims and i stated the schools of thought earlier on as well. We have the salafis, sufis,ikhawnis and so on they are all muslims but have differences which is what you mean and of course i accept this. Interpretations of texts isnt the real issue but more with application of the texts that is where the differences come in and they are two different issues.

Jairzinho:


The second and most important of my points is that religion can be mixed easily with politics,culture,customs and traditions & adherents won't know the difference.

This is exactly what Jarus meant when he said prisitne islam, in Nigerian context, not really mixing politics with islam but really customs and tradition which leads to bad innovative practices in matters of worship.
I think we finally converged on the same agreement,

Brother  , I agree to an extent that 'sectarianism' may not be entirely synonymous with disagreements on doctrine etc,but you'll agree with me no one will call themselves a sect. i doubt you call yourself part of the sunni sect?

Neither will I call myself 'protestant'.

The fundamentals you are talking about themselves are still subject to differing interpretation. For example the islamic holy books aren't entirely universal- some accept some hadiths ,others don't.

The Holy Prophet being the 'last prophet' is also subject to interpretation ,because his prophethood depends on GOD,so if he(prophet Mohammed pbuh) says he's the last & God Almighty decides to send someone else nko?   Is your faith based on the Holy prophet or on God??  Also the HP asked muslims to read the gospels,yet the gospels point clearly to Jesus,so which one will you accept?

As per Jews that believe in Jesus,please google 'Messinic Jews' , also the Trinity which has being a bone of contention on NL,there are christians who do not believe in the Trinity ; check UNITARIANS.

So my point is we only know so much and calling one thing pristine may be a misnomer if analysed objectively.

My point about culture ,traditions mixing with religion has to do with certain practises that can be called 'islamic' whereas they may actually be cultural,these may be classified as 'pristine' e.g burying the dead same day,women covering etc.