Mujtahida:

Tell me your story please. so how's it been since 1992? That's a long time ago. I was in primary 4 then.

Dear @Mujtahida,

Where can I possibly start from? "Gave my life to Christ", so to say, at a tender age and completed DLBC's Converts and Discipleship classes in 18 months. I was a worker in church by JSS1 and had read the bible over twice in 16 months.

As I came into adolescence, a few things began to disturb my thoughts critically. One was the idea of creation in 7 days and the ease with which Jewish elite could always trace their genealogy to Adam. With a moderate understanding of the sciences and geography in junior school, it began to be apparent to my yearning mind that the bible concept of creation doesn't hold well upon enlightened scrutiny.
One simple point is the genealogy of Jesus from Adam which suggests a period of 6,000yrs between both. How could I rationalize this in light of well-known Chinese royal artifacts dating 10,000yrs? Does this mean there was China long before God created Adam? What about the Neanderthals who left verifiable fossils and artifacts of their existence more than 40,000years ago? Did they roam the Earth long before Adam?
Another point is the idea that Joshua lifted his hands up and the Sun stood still in the sky to allow the Hebrews extra daylight to kill off their enemies. This to me began to appear border line egregious a lie as the writer apparently assumed that the Sun circumnavigated the Earth while the Earth stood still. More so, the entire Universe will need to freeze for such a miracle to be remotely possible. Not to mention that it was needless too.
Another point is the idea of the global deluge. The more I read the story of Noah, the more fabulous it seemed until I found that the same story had been told of Gilgamesh by the Babylonians long before Noah! Indeed, the deluge story has been a common folk tale in Mesopotamia long before the Noah version was incorporated in the bible.
Take again the oddity of John 5:7-8; the so-called comma Johanneum. It is now almost universally accepted by new bible translators that this portion was inserted in the book about the 15th century as no such passage exist in most accepted manuscripts before then.
Let me pick a final point with weird ages of Enoch, Noah, Adam, Methuselah etc. in the bible. Christians are forced to assume that people lived this long 6,000years ago. No such evidence is found in nature or history. The Chinese, Egyptians, Sumerians etc. who were contemporaries in that time have no such record of longevity. It is also not rational however you think about it. What could have reduced human lifespan to a fraction in few thousand years?
As a bible student and fervent worker, these anomalies troubled me. However, what troubled me more was the total helplessness of my “fathers in the Lord” when confronted with my questions. My pastor concluded that the devil wants to use me and that all these things will be revealed to us by God when we get to heaven…not nearly enough to quench my yearning for answers.
Long story short, I since drifted far from religion as I realized that religion is nothing more than primitive man’s attempts at explaining natural phenomenon.

kjhova:


Dear @Mujtahida,

Where can I possibly start from? "Gave my life to Christ", so to say, at a tender age and completed DLBC's Converts and Discipleship classes in 18 months. I was a worker in church by JSS1 and had read the bible over twice in 16 months.

As I came into adolescence, a few things began to disturb my thoughts critically. One was the idea of creation in 7 days and the ease with which Jewish elite could always trace their genealogy to Adam. With a moderate understanding of the sciences and geography in junior school, it began to be apparent to my yearning mind that the bible concept of creation doesn't hold well upon enlightened scrutiny.
One simple point is the genealogy of Jesus from Adam which suggests a period of 6,000yrs between both. How could I rationalize this in light of well-known Chinese royal artifacts dating 10,000yrs? Does this mean there was China long before God created Adam? What about the Neanderthals who left verifiable fossils and artifacts of their existence more than 40,000years ago? Did they roam the Earth long before Adam?
Another point is the idea that Joshua lifted his hands up and the Sun stood still in the sky to allow the Hebrews extra daylight to kill off their enemies. This to me began to appear border line egregious a lie as the writer apparently assumed that the Sun circumnavigated the Earth while the Earth stood still. More so, the entire Universe will need to freeze for such a miracle to be remotely possible. Not to mention that it was needless too.
Another point is the idea of the global deluge. The more I read the story of Noah, the more fabulous it seemed until I found that the same story had been told of Gilgamesh by the Babylonians long before Noah! Indeed, the deluge story has been a common folk tale in Mesopotamia long before the Noah version was incorporated in the bible.
Take again the oddity of John 5:7-8; the so-called comma Johanneum. It is now almost universally accepted by new bible translators that this portion was inserted in the book about the 15th century as no such passage exist in most accepted manuscripts before then.
Let me pick a final point with weird ages of Enoch, Noah, Adam, Methuselah etc. in the bible. Christians are forced to assume that people lived this long 6,000years ago. No such evidence is found in nature or history. The Chinese, Egyptians, Sumerians etc. who were contemporaries in that time have no such record of longevity. It is also not rational however you think about it. What could have reduced human lifespan to a fraction in few thousand years?
As a bible student and fervent worker, these anomalies troubled me. However, what troubled me more was the total helplessness of my “fathers in the Lord” when confronted with my questions. My pastor concluded that the devil wants to use me and that all these things will be revealed to us by God when we get to heaven…not nearly enough to quench my yearning for answers.
Long story short, I since drifted far from religion as I realized that religion is nothing more than primitive man’s attempts at explaining natural phenomenon.

Thanks for the reply and for such a reply too. I too have a Christian background. I was fervent and a worker in church - university fellowships, living faith church, RCCG. I have a strong reasoning bent but I never allowed the contradictions and outlandish tales in the Bible to affect my faith. I am even familiar with the stories like that of the gospels which were rife in the ancient world even before Christ was purportedly born. Nevertheless I continued to believe. However I began to drift away as a result of a deeply personal issue that had dogged my life for a long time. I prayed, I cried, I panted and called out for mercy, for help, for strength, for freedom. A stronghold had been built in my mind on an issue right from when I was a child and it was affecting me negatively. I sought God for deliverance. My brother if I prayed to my enemy the way I prayed to the Bible God, my enemy would have answered me. But I prayed to a God who they say is omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent yet He never answered me. Not a word, not a whiffle, his promises in the Bible failed big time. The pain was too much. I got to the point where I began to reason things- how can a God who calls us his children speak to us through a book? How can he give us his one and only son yet he cannot speak to us. Which is more difficult to do? How can he relate to us, to us human beings who are so finely wired for intimate relationships if he cannot speak to us? Is it not speech that is the basis of all intimate relationships? Why should the living God speak through a book written so long ago and even at that to a select group of people. Is this not the God who they say created the sun? Yet the sun shines on all men. Even in church, in the gathering of believers, his supposed children he doesn't speak. Adeboye or Oyakhilome or Oyedepo or many of the lesser known Pastors has to hear from him or interprete what he said to Paul or to Abraham or Moses or Isaiah long ago to his children? But he spoke directly to those people na. Why can't he just speak to us today directly considering that even his most precious son has come to die for our sins? Why the hide and seek, why the protocol of church and it's whole superstructure? Brother, this point is the major reason why I left Christianity. I still believe there is a God but I doubt if he is the God in the Bible. Christians will say God speaks in the Bible. I say a living God does not need a book, a book written by men to communicate to his children. No good earthly father does that except he is far or separated from his children or he is dead. Christians will say he speaks to me but I don't hear him. I say how can he speak and then I don't hear. Men speak and I hear, even now I can hear the constant din and hum of traffic outside my house as I type this without listening. So how can a God who is more powerful than human beings, wiser and even more gracious not find a way to break through my deafness. They will say I am spiritually dead and that's why I can't hear him. But the Bible say God gives life to the dead. Christians will say God is a spirit, so don't expect him to speak to you like man does. I say precisely because he is spirit that is why I ought to even hear him more. The holy Spirit is usually compared to wind but once the wind is moving you will hear it, you will feel it. Again how were people relating to God before the Bible was written? Do you know the deep spiritual problems facing human beings which a word spoken directly by God will relieve? Look at millions of prayers unanswered yet because man is helpless he cannot dispense with the idea of God. Man needs God! He will open his mouth and pray, cry, weep, fast, petition, grovel, supplication, worship, praise, and offer thanks to God yet what does God do? God keeps silent or you go read a book or listen to a pastor or prophet or priest to get an answer. No no no no no. My heart yearns for more! In the end I delivered myself when I realised that my destiny is in my hands and that no God will help me if I don't get up and help myself. I realised that if I believe my own word too with just as much faith as I believed the book, my word too will become flesh. It is the law of the universe.
Secondly I began to take an understanding from nature. Spiritual matters are deeply vital and personal, GOD is too important to be accessed through a book, or church or pastor. Nature equipped us personally and individually with the basic things we need to survive. I breathe by myself, my heart pumps it's own blood and I carry out many other vital bodily functions myself and even effortlessly. in fact once effort is required in doing these things then it is taken that one is sick. Jesus says he is the life yet see how much spiritual effort it takes to live as a Christian. Nothing in Christianity is easy even with all the talk about grace. If he is the life shouldn't Christians just breathe him in and out and live? Look at the sun, it shines on all without judgment without discrimination. Your behaviour good or bad doesn't affect the sun. Yet all life on earth depends on the sun and the sun reaches down effortlessly to one and all. No repentance is needed, no prayer is necessary to enjoy the bounties of the sun.
Another thing that gave me a different perspective was my readings on the age long Jewish question. Read the Bible my brother. It is nothing more than Jewish propaganda.
These are the reasons why I left church and Christianity. I might still go to church but nothing they say there will spark belief in my heart. I regard the whole thing as a colossal fraud. I am out of it.

These are trying times and it becomes hard to feel God's presence or blessings as before.

The funny thing is nothing has changed except within you. The sun still shines but we no longer see it . The sun sets and its beauty is still ignored. So many bad things happening out there but we never think to give thanks to God.

Count your blessings daily. Love more. Help others more. Little is much. Live simply. Pray . Laugh deeply. Stay Blessed.


I didn't even know i needed this reminder self.

oaroloye:
SHALOM!



I marvel at the fools who think that they are great Christians for doing things YAHSHUA never Commanded us to do.



I say that that is a complete LIE.

. MATTHEW 7:12-29.

12. "Therefore all things
whatsoever ye would
that men should do to you,
do ye even so to them:
for this is The Law and The Prophets.
13. "Enter ye in at the Strait Gate:
for Wide is the Gate, and Broad is the Way,
that leadeth to Destruction,
and many there be which go in thereat:
14. "Because Strait is the Gate,
and Narrow is The Way,
which leadeth unto Life,
and few there be that find it.
15. "Beware of False Prophets,
which come to you in sheep's clothing,
but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16. "Ye shall know them by their Fruits.
Do men gather grapes of thorns,
or figs of thistles?
17. "Even so every good tree
bringeth forth Good Fruit;
but a corrupt tree bringeth forth Evil Fruit.
18. "A Good Tree cannot bring forth Evil Fruit,
neither can a Corrupt Tree bring forth Good Fruit.
19. "Every Tree that bringeth not forth Good Fruit
is hewn down,
and cast into The Fire.
20. "Wherefore by their Fruits ye shall know them.
21. "Not every one
that saith unto me, 'Lord, Lord,'
shall enter into
The Kingdom of Heaven;
but he that doeth The Will of my Father
Which is in Heaven.
22. "Many will say to me in That Day,

'LORD, LORD, HAVE WE NOT
PROPHESIED IN THY NAME?
AND IN THY NAME
HAVE CAST OUT DEVILS?
AND IN THY NAME
DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?'

23. "And then will I profess unto them,

'I NEVER KNEW YOU:
DEPART FROM ME,
YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.'

24. "Therefore whosoever heareth
these Sayings of mine,
and doeth them,
I will liken him unto a Wise Man,
which built his House upon a Rock:
25. "And the rain descended,
and the floods came,
and the winds blew,
and beat upon that House;
and it Fell not:
for it was founded upon a Rock.
26. "And every one
that heareth these Sayings of mine,
and doeth them not,
shall be likened unto a Foolish Man,
which built his house upon the Sand:
27. "And the rain descended,
and the floods came,
and the winds blew,
and beat upon that House;
and it Fell:
and Great was The Fall of it."
28. And it came to pass,
when Jesus had ended these Sayings,
the People were astonished at his Doctrine:
29. For he Taught them
as One having Authority,
and not as the scribes.

DID YOU ABIDE BY THESE TEACHINGS OF YAHSHUA?

Certainly not.

So how much "LOGIC" or "REASON" could you have POSSIBLY had?



This is BULLSHIT.

YOU WERE NEVER IN GOD'S PRESENCE: PERIOD.



You saw yourself as "GIFTED?"

. EXODUS 23:8.

8. "And thou shalt take no Gift:
for the gift blindeth the Wise,
and perverteth
the words of the Righteous."



You have a "WRITING GIFT?"

Not seeing it.

What have you published?

Where are your websites?



How can you GROW, when you attend a Church of DUNCES?



YOU HAVE NO "SPIRITUAL ACTIVITIES" WHATSOEVER: PERIOD.



YOU DO NOT LOVE GOD, NOR DO YOU "UNDERSTAND," "ACCEPT," NOR "BELIEVE" HIS PLAN FOR HUMANITY.

You do NOT know "GOD," nor what His "PLAN FOR HUMANITY" is.

. DEUTERONOMY 6:4-9.

4. Hear, O Israel:
The LORD our God is one LORD:
5. And thou shalt love
The LORD thy God with all thine Heart,
and with all thy Soul,
and with all thy Might.
6. And These Words,
Which I Command thee this Day,
shall be in thine heart:
7. And thou shalt teach them
diligently unto thy Children,
and shalt talk of them
when thou sittest in thine house,
and when thou walkest by the way,
and when thou liest down,
and when thou risest up.
8. And thou shalt bind them
for a sign upon thine hand,
and they shall be as frontlets
between thine eyes.
9. And thou shalt write them
upon the posts of thy house,
and on thy gates.

I WENT OUT OF MY WAY TO EXPLAIN THE OYINBO DECEPTION CONCERNING "THE LOVE OF GOD."

Where were YOU and your "GIFT OF WRITING" then?



WE SHOULD READ YOUR NOVEL?

If you were to be arrested for being a Christian, there would not be sufficient evidence to convict you.



WHERE DID YAHSHUA SAY THAT HE WANTED TO BE SERVED WITH MUSIC?

. JOHN 8:30-32.

30. As he spake these words,
many believed on him.
31. Then said Jesus to those Jews
which believed on him,
"If ye continue in my Word,
then are ye my Disciples indeed;
32. "And ye shall know The Truth,
and The Truth shall make you free."

YAHSHUA IS SERVED BY PEOPLE OBEYING HIS TEACHINGS.

The BEST Bible Religious Singers in the World sent Yahshua to the cross!

The Oyinbos use Music as a MIND-CONTROL DEVICE- interfering with the BRAINWAVES and activating CONDITIONED REFLEXES.

The purpose of MODERN MUSIC is to DECEIVE people.

The law of God is my light. As frail as I am, I keep with all my strength.

Besides, you are not making sense here.

Mujtahida:

...I still believe there is a God but I doubt if he is the God in the Bible...

Hmmm, you are still toying with Agnostic feelings of trying to rationalize natural phenomenon with the likelihood of a creator being.

If there is a God, even if not the bible or quran gods or other heralded gods out there, won't the evidence still be self revealing and not hide and seek? There are no gods who created man in their own image as much as their are no gods who created cockroaches in their own image. If all your senses confirm this point, you need not more.


Humans have a long way to go in full understanding of reality. We inhabit the unpopulated back waters of our galaxy, the milky way, and are thus yet to benefit from intra-galactic communion. We need to fashion a way to get out of the solar system and see what is out there. All these primitive idea of saints flying off to some blissful heaven is an impediment to the concentration of mental pool required to get humans to break the lightspeed barrier to intra-galactic relations.

kjhova:


Hmmm, you are still toying with Agnostic feelings of trying to rationalize natural phenomenon with the likelihood of a creator being.

If there is a God, even if not the bible or quran gods or other heralded gods out there, won't the evidence still be self revealing and not hide and seek? There are no gods who created man in their own image as much as their are no gods who created cockroaches in their own image. If all your senses confirm this point, you need not more.


Humans have a long way to go in full understanding of reality. We inhabit the unpopulated back waters of our galaxy, the milky way, and are thus yet to benefit from intra-galactic communion. We need to fashion a way to get out of the solar system and see what is out there. All these primitive idea of saints flying off to some blissful heaven is an impediment to the concentration of mental pool required to get humans to break the lightspeed barrier to intra-galactic relations.

It's quite a leap for me to become atheistic but I basically live my life the best way I know how. From what you have written about intra galactic relations I guess you believe in aliens and other sentient beings as visiting this planet of ours and having bases here. It's a field I have been aware of since 2002 after reading Van Daniken's chariots of the gods but I have not really explored it in depth.

kjhova:


Hmmm, you are still toying with Agnostic feelings of trying to rationalize natural phenomenon with the likelihood of a creator being.

If there is a God, even if not the bible or quran gods or other heralded gods out there, won't the evidence still be self revealing and not hide and seek? There are no gods who created man in their own image as much as their are no gods who created cockroaches in their own image. If all your senses confirm this point, you need not more.


Humans have a long way to go in full understanding of reality. We inhabit the unpopulated back waters of our galaxy, the milky way, and are thus yet to benefit from intra-galactic communion. We need to fashion a way to get out of the solar system and see what is out there. All these primitive idea of saints flying off to some blissful heaven is an impediment to the concentration of mental pool required to get humans to break the lightspeed barrier to intra-galactic relations.

It's quite a leap for me to become atheistic but I basically live my life the best way I know how. From what you have written about intra galactic relations I guess you believe in aliens and other sentient beings as visiting this planet of ours and having bases here. It's a field I have been aware of since 2002 after reading Van Daniken's chariots of the gods but I have not really explored it in depth.