No Is Allah biased by making his last prophet the Prophet Mohammed(SAW) Male and not female according to your beliefs?

Again you are missing the point. What i'm trying to put across is the parental relationship, the sonship attributed to God. If you're attributing sonship to him, how come he doesnt have a daughter? If we start putting God in the same category as us humans/animals (begets, look in the dictionary and understand the meaning of this word) then The just God the loving God, the Unbiased God should have a daughter too.

That the level of reasoning i'm forced to come as a muslim who wants to understand Christianity. But as a Christian or even Muslim who wants to understand islam, i can ask such questions and get instant answers. If i sum up all this to one simple, clear question, i would say "Does God Beget?". and christians will have a hard time explain that to me using the bible as a reference. For a muslim, the answer is there;

Chapter 112 of the Quran States.

1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

4. And there is none like unto Him.

A perfect God. He neither gets tired nor slumbers. Doesn't need our help, or the Angels. HE is Superb, Mercifuly, Just, Forgiving, Loving, the mighty the wise, the provider, the incomparable, the self sufficient.....etc. Such is God's Status in Islam. Perfect.

God has both man and female properties to me

U guys got me all wrong. Anyway its normal in a forum with ppl of different faith and reasoning.

I wonder why nobody said anything about the example i gave about the creation af adam & eve and instructing them not to eat from the forbidden tree.
Do you think GOD didnt know they were going to eat from it before they did? Of course he did know.
The point is, GOD's actions are unquestionable and our logical reasons for them are just what he wants us to think.

God only allows u to understand what HE wants u to.
NONE of you,(as in everybody) has no skills or ability to REASON NOthing without his say so.

Thats according to you, not according to what I believe. And thats why Islam is a beautiful religion, it allows you to question, to challenge, and to use logics.
God's words to humans should be logical, otherwise it is useless, and sends know message and therefore establishes no propose. Why believe in something you cannot understand? I still don't get it.

@logical, its gud to knw u practice islam because i also do. Anyway, I have a question for u.
why cant I proceed to offerring my salat without abulution even if i just finishd having my bath
and my bath which was a total scrubbing of your body (in the cleanest available spring water) LOGICALLY translating to a clean body and still I cant pray until
I do the selective body wash(abulution). Kindly explain the logical rationale behind that.


Right from your creation, do u think God doesnt knw who and who will be in hellfire or heaven?

Adam and Eve, beginnings in Garden of Eden (Babylon, today Iraq), had every essential and beautiful pleasures to enjoy. This included eating from fruit of every tree, with exception of one. God had given them specific instruction not to eat of that specific tree. Tragically they disobeyed.

But why? Why did Adam and Eve disobey God?

Human pride and greed.
They wanted to be "gods" themselves.
They did not want to be under any type of control.

This was their error and the error of humanity ever since.

chrisd:

But why? Why did Adam and Eve disobey God?

Human pride and greed.
They wanted to be "gods" themselves.
They did not want to be under any type of control.

This was their error and the error of humanity ever since.

You think GOD didnt know before putting them in the garden that they were(1 day) going to disobey his instructions because of the reasons above?

He made us in his image. Being made in the image of God separates human beings with certain abilities that no other creation has...such as the ability to love, to reason things out, to make plans and decisions. Man has the capacity to think, to feel and to make decisions, while the animal world functions only on instinct. Thus even if he knew, He let it be.

chrisd:

Thus even if he knew, He let it be.

Of course HE did knew. HE is the ALL Knowing.
HE let it be because he wanted.
If HE knew, why did HE create them in the first place and give them the instructions.

Anybody have any logical reaoning why HE let it be.

At this moment I quote Emerson

War educates the senses, calls into action the will, perfects the physical constitution, brings men into such swift and close collision in critical moments that man measures man.

how that one take affect the issue at hand?

Specifically, his decision allows for goods that oppose evil, opening up possibilities for bravery, for compassion, and for mutual dependence, for example. These higher-order goods could not exist otherwise. A world without suffering would lack such goods as these, and would therefore be inferior.

Hmm its really a pity.

@theORAKU
Anywayz, abulution is a spiritual act of cleansining and it goes through stages of intention and focus. That it is why its different from bathing which is just basic cleansining of the body.

God created Adam and Eve and gave them the choice. Based on Islamic teachings they were incited by Iblis (Otherwise known as satan) to make the choice, that broke the law. And period they broke the law.

Its like peer pressure. Period. The choice is yours.

Logical:


God created Adam and Eve and gave them the choice. Based on Islamic teachings they were incited by Iblis (Otherwise known as satan) to make the choice, that broke the law. And period they broke the law.

Its like peer pressure. Period. The choice is yours.

So u saying GOD didnt knw they will break the law? even b4 they did?
YES or NO

Or maybe GOD doesnt have control over Ibliss or knw Ibliss will come and incite them?
YES or NO.

kindly answer the questions simply and frankly.

The just,loving,unbiased God should have a daughter too? Thats your "logical" opinion. I don't think am missing the point. I addressed it fully earlier on. The issues youre raising here are quite different. God is perfect and unbiased. Like I said earlier and will say again, I donot know why God chose to send a have a Son and not a daughter. If you think that makes God biased, thats you opinion. No one here but you has put God in the same category as Humans/animals. God is the All knowing mighty one who is perfect and He chose to have a Son who lived on earth without sin or blemish. I cannot question that, I cannot question God. Good for you your religion allows you to do that. My Bible tells me in John 3:16 THAT

"For God so loved the world,that He gave His only Son,that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life".

You believe your Qur'an through Logic. I believe my Bible through faith. My God is PERFECT and chose to have a Son who lived a life of purity, is till now without Sin. They ways of God cannot be understood through logic, My God cannot not be  explained by logic. He is far above any logic found in this world!

theORAKU:

God only allows u to understand what HE wants u to.
NONE of you,(as in everybody) has no skills or ability to REASON NOthing without his say so.
@logical, its good to knw u practice islam because i also do. Anyway, I have a question for u.
why can't I proceed to offerring my salat without abulution even if i just finishd having my bath
and my bath which was a total scrubbing of your body (in the cleanest available spring water) LOGICALLY translating to a clean body and still I can't pray until
I do the selective body wash(abulution). Kindly explain the logical rationale behind that.

/quote]

Kismat,Let me see you use logic to explain this question raised by your muslim brother.

Anti-intellectualism again

Through faith and reason. Faith without reason is blind.

@theORAKU What is the use of that knowlegde to a christian or non believer?

Besides TheORAKU do you really understand "destiny" from the islamic perspective. I do encourage that you read or get yourself educated in that relation. The choice of Adam and Eve was not pre-destined, but the effects of the choice was known. That is the knowledge part.

alheri:

You believe your Qur'an through Logic. I believe my Bible through faith. My God is PERFECT and chose to have a Son who lived a life of purity, is till now without Sin. They ways of God cannot be understood through logic, My God cannot not be explained by logic. He is far above any logic found in this world!

Your God cannot be explained by Logic? who said he can be? What I said was his "message" to his creations. My debate was directed towards the use of a "message" that has no logical meaning or can't be understood?

faith (fāth) pronunciation
n.

1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See synonyms at belief, trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.

What is perfection to you? I really did not get that.

Faith is developed through understanding and logic, but once it is developed it does not rest on it, because that position is attained already.

If I choose faith to believe in something, then every religion has a chance, based on any intepretations I choose to apply to it. I am a human. Humans are governed by natural laws that guide them through healthy living , and religion should be threated the same way. The Choice must be based on what you know and understand, and what is good for your future or should I say after life. Not what you choose based on just assumption that hopefully it is the truth. You must be convinced in a way through the message. But its upto us, we have the freedom of free will. You can choose whathever you like.

@Logical, u didnt answer the question.
Destiny? thats a separate thread on its own. Better dont start it here.

@chrisd: whats your idea of intelligence?
Dont u know u can wake up tomorrow with a blank head and nothing will HAPPEN anywhere?
All u do aint your might, its GOD.

"Christianity-in-a-bubble": Keep your faith separate from the rest of your intellectual life. This approach is associated with neo-orthodox theologians such as Karl Barth who revolted against modernism by asserting (correctly) that the Gospel does not make sense unless you accept it as the whole package.

Unfortunately, neo-orthodoxy is often just anti-intellectualism with a college degree. You still end up with a compartmentalized mind, assuming that faith is not rationally explainable or justifiable. Thus your faith does not connect with anything outside it. This movement has had a strong effect on evangelical churches.

Remember that the term "leap of faith" comes from an existentialist philosopher (Kierkegaard), not the Bible; and "ya gotta believe" is the motto Peter Pan, not Jesus.

Consider this, with the use of DDT, about 9 million children are saved from death every year in Uganda. The EU is threatening to stop all relations with Uganda until its withdrawal. That means about 9 million children will die next year. What you say about that. Refusing to use the minds and the knowledge He has given us also dishonors God

my guys,

I aint here to brag abt my IRK skills or how versed i am in the Quran.

The simple truth is, GOD knows every f@&king thing that will happen every singu second of the days of our different lifes, the ones before us and the ones that will come after. So what else do u want?
We are nothing but toys in his hands because HE owns us.

Dont tell me HE didnt knw Adam and EVE will be incited by IBLISS, when the Quran states that He's the all-knower.

All knower or not, what will it change. We still have free will, in the sense that we can decide if we do something or not do it.

chrisd,
U still dont get the point!

ADVICE: go spend more tyme wth your scriptures and less tyme with all this scientific papers.

"For God so loved the world,that He gave His only Son,that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life".

What happened to Begotten? You see there's no problem with your verse because according to the bible, we are all sons of God. But your quotation is from ESV or non-KJV bible because KJV states (the most widely used bible):

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. " KJV 3:16

Beget/sire/procreate is an animal/human act. We produce offsprings, generations etc by begetting. What you christians are trying to say is God begot a son. He had sex, intercourse with mary and from that act Jesus is born. And thats what i'm trying to point out all this time. Beget. Beget. Beget. Beget. its not Godly but ungodly act.

“Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter He only says to it "Be" and it is.”
Chapter 19, Verses 34-35

“This similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam: He created him from dust then said to him: "Be" and he was.”
Chapter 3, Verse 59

I got the point and we must face reality too.

@theORAKU Sorry I didnt see the Question.
But now I see it.

Please remember that destiny is defined in Islam, and I covered that in the thread of Fate with quotations. So please read through.

So u saying GOD didnt knw they will break the law? even before they did?
YES , he didnt know their choice before they did.

Or maybe GOD doesnt have control over Ibliss or knw Ibliss will come and incite them?

Ok seems you don't know the Qurans message in regards. But let me quickly cover that.
God had control over Ibliss but based on the teachings Ibliss made the choice of choosing to be evil by refusing the commands of God to postrate in respect, due to the Jelousy he had against Adams vast knowledge. He believed angels were supreme and human creations werent necessary, and thus he refused to postrate in respect and was banished from heaven. And he promised to misdirect humanity.

And asked Allah to grant him just one thing "long life". Well Allah did. But in that relation he thereafter promised to try to incite the creations of Allah untill then join him and be his servants. That is Satan.

Well Allah then said

that whoever follows his (Allah's) guidance and message would be shielded from the tempation of the devil which would mis-direct him from making the right choice.

Well Iblis then tried inciting Adam , he was successful, and the prayers from Adam and Eve for forgiveness, and there was the covenant, and thats why they came to earth from heaven.

I tried to summarize the whole events, but I guess that answers your question. Adam made the choice.

God did not know their choice, they made the choice. THe choice is not under destiny in Islam.

Finally someone understands my point. Yes, that's what I meant.

Logical:

@theORAKU Sorry I didnt see the Question.
But now I see it.

So u saying GOD didnt knw they will break the law? even before they did?
YES , he didnt know their choice before they did.

Am very surprised at this opinion of yours.
A muslim for that matter.

I bet you have forgotten this verse,

"He is Allâh, than Whom there is Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but he) [i]the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen (open)[/i]. He is the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful."
(Al Hashr, 59:22)

Anyway, its been nice talking to u shaa, as this is my last post on the topic.
Have a nice  Logical Night.

theORAKU:

Am very surprised at this opinion of yours.
A muslim for that matter.

I bet you have forgotten this verse,

"He is Allâh, than Whom there is Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but he) [i]the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen (open)[/i]. He is the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful."
(Al Hashr, 59:22)

Suprised because you werent taught Islamic Jurisprudence? or Suprised because your background is just SSCE (IRK)? That I do not understand. Well we are all learning everyday arent we?

Your quotations is intact and serves its propose. I did not debate against the Knowledge. What I am debating was choice based on free will. But please I encourage you to read my post on destiny in Islam. It is located here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-4452.0.html#msg149720

Might educate you or you might want to drop one or two things with the quotations.

I am with you here Logical

ok kismat. So your major problem is the word "beget"?Now Ive pulled out my dictionary like you advised earlier.

The concise oxford dictionary of current English. The defination for  BEGET is as follows:

1( Usually of a father, sometimes of a father and mother) pro-create.
2 give rise to; cause

As you can see from the definations above, USUALLY of a father, SOMETIMES of a father and mother. So I guess we christians mean the usually of  a FATHER part of the defination not the SOMETIMES of father and mother.God in His awesomeness and power caused Mary to conceive,as in the second defination. No sex as you want to believe(thats perverted reasoning).   

No christian has ever said God had intercourse with Mary. OMG, do you have to takes things this far? Intercourse is not a Godly act,YES! but to beget is not "ungodly"  as you put it. You are the one who fails to understand. Mary conceived of  Jesus Christ through the spoken word of God, not  through " DUST" as you claim so the comparism between Adam and Jesus Christ does not even arise. Who are you to question how God chooses to show his owesomeness? No one and including you is in the position to determine what is Majestic to God. If you feel that "begetting" the Lord Jesus Christ reduces the majesty of God ,thats YOUR opinion. Youve got a right to that and I along with other believers  here beg to disagree.
And since we're deviating from the topic,didnt you see my question earlier? I want you to use "LOGIC" to answer for me the
Guestion raised earlier by ORAKU on abulution(hope i got the spelling right)

I taught i answered that. Ablution in Islam is a human spiritual cleasening process observed "by muslims" through certain special steps, based on "intention", to "cleansen the mind and the soul" in preparation for "religious" acts such as prayer etc.

I wonder why christians are curious for that knowledge. You don't need it , if you are not a muslim? But as a muslim you should know what it is, and the question should not come to existence, because it serves no propose.

If I am not mistaken, even Jews perform ablution before religious acts, not only Muslim.

So may I know why the question was raised?, the definition should answer your reason on why muslims make ablution .

Personally, I understand why the abulution is performed by muslims though am not a muslim. I grew up around muslims and have muslim relatives. My question was actually to kismat who said that in Islam she can use logic to explain to another person everything done in Islam in a way that it would seem logical to him/her. And ORAKU raised a question earlier about how you can use logic to explain to a none muslim why after taking a bath with soap and spong and srubing yourself clean you cannot just go straight to saying your prayers having but must first perform the abulution as a means of "cleansing" . It doesnt seem logical to normal human reasoning. I know that, but tell that to some members of this forum who are atheist. How can you convience them that that makes you more "cleansed"(inside/out ) by performing the steps of abulution? Infact I can remember a muslim friend telling me that in a case where no water is available, you can use "sand" to perform the abulution!

My point is that you cant always explain things of religion, issues of faith with LOGIC!