Haba, I thought you'd have set us straight about what, in your opinion, we misconstrued as 'propaganda sites'.

m4malik

Thanks 4 that research. What u said is the truth but do u know that, our beloved prophet, like the other prophets, including Jesus, act according to the order all the creator of the universe? Q53 vs 3-4

The last prophet of Allah, Prophet Muhammad(saw), had only one virgin, others are those that lost their husband in one way or the other.

Not only that, He was with only one wife, our beloved mother Khadijah, when he(saw) was still youth, not until her death before he married others.

@firdaus4us,

First, when you engage in issues like this, it doesn't help much to evaluate the Person and work of Jesus based solely on what the Qur'an says as long as it mentions the "Gospel" of Jesus. It would help promote a better understanding to read about that Gospel from the New Testament.

Second, unlike ISAHO, you've acknowledged the fact that Muhammad married others - by implication, more than 4 women. However, I'm not so sure that all the other women were 'those that lost their husband in one way or the other' - (what about, for instance, Juwairiyah bint Al-Harith and Safiyah bint Huyai bin Akhtab?).

@firdaus
dear brother, i quite appreciate your concern in making them to understanding but unfortunately they are not ready to understand it the way it is except you will explain the way they want you to.

@malik,
the similitude of your islamic understanding is like a woman wrapped with a cloth round her waist, until you see beyond the woman woman before you appreciate what she has. so my friend why not put culture on one hand, religion on the other hand, perhaps you might understand what we hav trying to make you understand.

just a suggestion you may not deem it fit to consider.

@m4malik
Is there any prb in marrying more than one wife? Do u know that many prophets of God married more than one, even in ur Bible? I still maintain my stand, history tells that those that abuse the prophets usually end their life in total perdition, hence don't say bad words agianst the prophet, even if u disbelieve in any of them.

@firdaus4us,

I personally do not think that Mohammed is a prophet of the God we know as Jehovah, so I can say shit about him.   To me, he is an impostor, a 'thief' according to Jesus, and 'anathema' according to Paul.  Further more, I think he is a sword wielding pedophile who is not worthy of the appellation of prophethood better than Adolf Hitler.

One thing that is central to all the messages of the real prophet is Jesus Christ.  And for someone to claim that the messages of those prophets have been corrupted and that only what he has to say is law, amounts to rubbish.  I wish he led such an exemplerary life for us to even begin to consider what he has to say, but he didn't.  He was deceived by a demon masquerading as an angel, and I have always asked, how many people witnessed the angel talking to him?  All the biblical prophets had witnesses of the supernatural happening in their lives, but not this bedoiun 'prophet'.

Anyway, I do have more to say about him as long as you guys try to read meaning into the bible that is not there.  and by the way, you talk about respect for the Prophets.  How much repect do you hae for them when you do not even believe what they have to say, and you make them out to be liars.  Don't get me started dude.

oops!

@TayoD

great, you've just blown it, _{shakes head in disappointment}

I think it's a great insult to be looking for Muhammad in the bible.Am just learning a few things about his character and I say without any sense of apology,that he was an odious historical personality;that when all his atrocities documented in the Hadiths and other Islamic write-ups are well publicised,he would be shown for what he was;a forger,bandit,rapist,sex-maniac and a mass murderer.
He does not possess any qualification to be a prophet of God like we know in the bible.
A man who plunder Jewish communities,killing their men,took their women as booty of war,turning them into sex-slaves is hardly a prophet material.
If not that religion,especially Islam demands that you abdicate your sense of reason,how can an Arab illiterate who lived about  2000 years after the old testament(Torah) was written and 700 years after the new testament was completed, now claim that the bible was changed or edited and rational people believe him when he cannot produce the supposedly original version.

*la ta ta kha lam*

Come on guys! This thread should have rested by now, take it easy.

@TayoD, @pearl2

How do u come about that Bible? By the answer, pls read these:

[b]The most "authoritative" accounts of a historical Jesus come from the four canonical Gospels of the Bible. Note that these Gospels did not come into the Bible as original and authoritative from the authors themselves, but rather from the influence of early church fathers, especially the most influential of them all: Irenaeus of Lyon who lived in the middle of the second century. Many heretical gospels got written by that time, but Irenaeus considered only some of them for mystical reasons. He claimed only four in number; according to Romer, "like the four zones of the world, the four winds, the four divisions of man's estate, and the four forms of the first living creatures-- the lion of Mark, the calf of Luke, the man of Matthew, the eagle of John (see Against the Heresies). The four gospels then became Church cannon for the orthodox faith. Most of the other claimed gospel writings were burned, destroyed, or lost." [Romer]

Elaine Pagels writes: "Although the gospels of the New Testament-- like those discovered at Nag Hammadi-- are attributed to Jesus' followers, no one knows who actually wrote any of them." [Pagels, 1995]

Not only do we not know who wrote them, consider that none of the Gospels got written during the alleged life of Jesus, nor do the unknown authors make the claim to have met an earthly Jesus. Add to this that none of the original gospel manuscripts exist; we only have copies of copies.

The consensus of many biblical historians put the dating of the earliest Gospel, that of Mark, at sometime after 70 C.E., and the last Gospel, John after 90 C.E. [Pagels, 1995; Helms]. This would make it some 40 years after the alleged crucifixion of Jesus that we have any Gospel writings that mention him! Elaine Pagels writes that "the first Christian gospel was probably written during the last year of the war, or the year it ended. Where it was written and by whom we do not know; the work is anonymous, although tradition attributes it to Mark, " [Pagels, 1995]

The traditional Church has portrayed the authors as the apostles Mark, Luke, Matthew, & John, but scholars know from critical textural research that there simply occurs no evidence that the gospel authors could have served as the apostles described in the Gospel stories. Yet even today, we hear priests and ministers describing these authors as the actual disciples of Christ. Many Bibles still continue to label the stories as "The Gospel according to St. Matthew," "St. Mark," "St. Luke," St. John." No apostle would have announced his own sainthood before the Church's establishment of sainthood. But one need not refer to scholars to determine the lack of evidence for authorship. As an experiment, imagine the Gospels without their titles. See if you can find out from the texts who wrote them; try to find their names.

Even if the texts supported the notion that the apostles wrote them, consider that the average life span of humans in the first century came to around 30, and very few people lived to 70. If the apostles births occured at about the same time as the alleged Jesus, and wrote their gospels in their old age, that would put Mark at least 70 years old, and John at over 110.

The gospel of Mark describes the first written Bible gospel. And although Mark appears deceptively after the Matthew gospel, the gospel of Mark got written at least a generation before Matthew. From its own words, we can deduce that the author of Mark had neither heard Jesus nor served as his personal follower. Whoever wrote the gospel, he simply accepted the mythology of Jesus without question and wrote a crude an ungrammatical account of the popular story at the time. Any careful reading of the three Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke) will reveal that Mark served as the common element between Matthew and Luke and gave the main source for both of them. Of Mark's 666* verses, some 600 appear in Matthew, some 300 in Luke. According to Randel Helms, the author of Mark, stands at least at a third remove from Jesus and more likely at the fourth remove. [Helms]

* Most Bibles show 678 verses for Mark, not 666, but many Biblical scholars think the last 12 verses came later from interpolation. The earliest manuscripts and other ancient sources do not have Mark 16: 9-20. Moreover the text style does not match and the transition between verse 8 and 9 appears awkward. Even some of today's Bibles such as the NIV exclude the last 12 verses.

The author of Matthew had obviously gotten his information from Mark's gospel and used them for his own needs. He fashioned his narrative to appeal to Jewish tradition and Scripture. He improved the grammar of Mark's Gospel, corrected what he felt theologically important, and heightened the miracles and magic.

The author of Luke admits himself as an interpreter of earlier material and not an eyewitness (Luke 1:1-4). Many scholars think the author of Luke lived as a gentile, or at the very least, a hellenized Jew and even possibly a woman. He (or she) wrote at a time of tension in the Roman empire along with its fever of persecution. Many modern scholars think that the Gospel of Matthew and Luke got derived from the Mark gospel and a hypothetical document called "Q" (German Quelle, which means "source". [Helms; Wilson] . However, since we have no manuscript from Q, no one could possibly determine its author or where or how he got his information or the date of its authorship. Again we get faced with unreliable methodology and obscure sources.

John, the last appearing Bible Gospel, presents us with long theological discourses from Jesus and could not possibly have come as literal words from a historical Jesus. The Gospel of John disagrees with events described in Mark, Matthew, and Luke. Moreover the book got written in Greek near the end of the first century, and according to Bishop Shelby Spong, the book "carried within it a very obvious reference to the death of John Zebedee (John 21:23)." [Spong]

Please understand that the stories themselves cannot serve as examples of eyewitness accounts since they came as products of the minds of the unknown authors, and not from the characters themselves. The Gospels describe narrative stories, written almost virtually in the third person. People who wish to portray themselves as eyewitnesses will write in the first person, not in the third person. Moreover, many of the passages attributed to Jesus could only have come from the invention of its authors. For example, many of the statements of Jesus claim to have come from him while allegedly alone. If so, who heard him? It becomes even more marked when the evangelists report about what Jesus thought. To whom did Jesus confide his thoughts? Clearly, the Gospels employ techniques that fictional writers use. In any case the Gospels can only serve, at best, as hearsay, and at worst, as fictional, mythological, or falsified stories.[/b]

@firda4them,

Don't copy and paste another mans stupidity.
you might as well reproduce the Da vinci code here.

Tell me what is wrong with the teachings and lifestyle of Jesus Christ and let's compare him to Mo.
Who by the way would have diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic,killer and pedophile.
Probably would have been an inmate at Maximum security prison.

Good clue as to whom Christ is.
The world calendar revolved and revolves around him.

BC=Before Christ.
AD=in the year of our Lord.

You can't beat that can you?

A few areas in the Koran to help you out.

http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/koran.html

From Muslims to Muslims.

http://www.secularislam.org/guide/mirza.htm

firdaus4us,

May be you should start by finding out and presenting to us, the Gospels and Torah that Muhammad by revelation claimed were sent down by Allah.  When you have produced that and we do a compare and contrast, then you can begin to have a point.  Until then, I will advice you to stop multiplying ignorance on the world wide web.

Would you mind to read if I have the link to the answers to your worries about the number of days? If so please read http://www.islamicvoice.com/january.2001/religion.htm

To go back to the topic at hand.
No Mohammed was never mentioned in the Bible by name except in the area where the scriptures tell us of certain false prophets that will arise and lead many to destruction.
We know he is one of them.

The muslims reverence him,that is their belief and they are entitled to it.
So was my dear brother 4malik until the Lord opened his eyes to the truth to join the 6 million Africans annually coming to the faith.

, in THE Book you would not like to accept; yet you find amongst it's pages a confirmation of your beliefs, spilling out figour and venom!!!, you appeal to it's conscent; that it yet agrees with the essence of your faith,

To me, the response to this topic by the Muslims in the house is simply amazing,

The pages of the bible are too sacred to contain a pedophile who take delight in 8 year old gals.
moreover Moh'd was born over 500 years after the birth of Christ and he brought a book close to 600 years after the birth of Christ , many years after the bible was written that is very similar in content to the bible, save for some minor adjustment. For student of Law is that not a copyright issue?
For he just copied the existing book and claimed "God" gave him the book on the laps of baby Aisha I suppose

@Dayokanu, Babyosisi, et al.
It will be interesting to know that even thought the entries about thecompilation of the Bible, clearly pointed to the real issue of Bible; it is a book that has had man's hand in it, hence it is not devine any longer. This is not to say that you will not find some remnants of truth in it.

This is the way of God. When it is His decree that He makes something clear, the process is but put in motion . You know, Qur'an confirms what it confirms.

Slavery of Blacks in Africa and in the new world and Europe, is based on Biblical foundation. Unfortunately, there might have been Muslims who participated in the trade, there condition is with the lord of the world. However, no one can say that Qur'an teaches superiority of one race over another. The Caller of Prayer in the time of Prophet Muhammad was a former slave black Africa. The position of calling people to prayer is a honored one. Poor and wealthy, young and old wants to be the one occupying that position.

Even the the position of papacy, a Nigerian cardinal was qualified, they passed him over. Here in America, the most known Muslim is a black man. Yet there are many notable White americans, but the ranking or leadership in Islam is measured only by Piety and God consciousness.

Some of you christians call the beloved of the Almighty, your Creator and mine names and descriptions that you will be burnt in hellfire for when you come before the One Mighty in Power, Wise. My advise to you is that you turn back and seek forgiveness. God is capable to do all things.

You forgot to mention that Muslims first started slave trade and years after the whole world has abolished slave trade your fellow black Africans in Sudan are still enslaved and their women raped by Arab Muslims.

If the lie that the Bible is changed keeps you Muslims calm and eruption free,be my guest.
allah is a glorified moon deity,he is not the almighty and can never be.
See what he (allah) and his prophet Mo think of you olabowole a black man.

Their words not mine.


Racism
 
[b]Ishaq:243 "I heard the Apostle say: ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!' He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks…. Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom."

[9:61] "Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey's.'"

Ishaq:144 “A rock was put on a slave’s chest. When Abu Bakr complained, they said, ‘You are the one who corrupted him, so save him from his plight.’ I will do so,’ said Bakr. ‘I have a black slave, tougher and stronger than Bilal, who is a heathen. I will exchange him. The transaction was carried out.”

Qur’an 9:97 “The Arabs of the desert are the worst in unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance of the command which Allah hath sent down to His Messenger.”

Tabari II:11 “Shem, the son of Noah was the father of the Arabs, the Persians, and the Greeks; Ham was the father of the Black Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and of Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks. Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African’s color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks.”

Tabari II:21 “Ham [Africans] begat all those who are black and curly-haired, while Japheth [Turks] begat all those who are full-faced with small eyes, and Shem [Arabs] begat everyone who is handsome of face with beautiful hair. Noah prayed that the hair of Ham’s descendants would not grow beyond their ears, and that whenever his descendants met Shem’s, the latter would enslave them.”

Tabari IX:69 “Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah’s helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in Allah’s Cause. Killing him is a small matter to us.”

Bukhari: V9B89N256 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘You should listen to and obey your ruler even if he is a black African slave whose head looks like a raisin.’”
Ishaq:450 “It is your folly to fight the Apostle, for Allah’s army is bound to disgrace you. We brought them to the pit. Hell was their meeting place. We collected them there, black slaves, men of no descent.

Ishaq:374 “The black troops and slaves of the Meccans cried out and the Muslims replied, ‘Allah destroy your sight, you impious rascals.’”

Bukhari:V4B52N137 “The Prophet said, ‘Let the negro slave of Dinar perish. And if he is pierced with a thorn, let him not find anyone to take it out for him,  If he [the black slave] asks for anything it shall not be granted, and if he needs intercession [to get into paradise], his intercession will be denied.’”
 

     

[/b]

@Babyosisi; Those adiths you have quoted, are weak adiths. the chain of narrations are very weak. They are adiths that have been proven to have had the hands of the enemies of Islam; this is an effort by them to bring discourse and divisions into the rank.

A proof of that is that Muhammad (AS) did not give the position of Muhaddin (Caller to prayer) to his cousin, Ali Ibn Abu talib, even as he lobbied for it. The Muhaddithans (Those who studied Hadith ) have dis proven it.

Further, when a noblility from the Makkan Arabs insulted Bilal ibn Rabbah (RA), a former slave/Black man from Ethopia, who by the way, Abu Bakr (RA) ransomed him from slavery. Allah's messenger (AS) was very angry at the noble arab. He said to him, 'you still have the evil/quality of the time of Ignorance' (Jahaliyah). The noble arab was so ashamed that he put his head on the groungd begging for forgiveness from Bilal. he asked Bilal to step on his head as a means of washing himself away from the evilness of his deed. Bilal said to him he could not step on the head of a person who prostrate his face to the Lord of the Universe. Such were the quality of the men who surrounded Muhammad (AS), the Noble soul, the beloved of Al-Rahman.

I could give you a thousand and one more example and a means of disproving your entries. I do not know if it will benefit you. However, the DOOR of THE MERCY OF THE ONE GOD is always open.

You have seen how your Nigerian christian brothers and sisters do not even know there is relationship between Catholicizm and protestant sects; same christians. Infact, the catholic bible existed before the protestants. The protestants used the catholic's bible as the base of its own bible, but omitting a few of the books.

Even the catholics can let cardinal Arienze of Nigeria become the Pope, this time around when he is the most qualified.

So my dear sister, go talk to you christian brethrens. When you want to learn about Islam. I will be ready to teach you. Infact, because you are a woman, I will introduce you to another Woman.

You want an Ibo woman, other Nigerian, African or Blak or white American. There is that individual ready to guide you.

babyosisi:

Tell me what is wrong with the teachings and lifestyle of Jesus Christ and let's compare him to Mo.
Who by the way would have diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic,killer and pedophile.
Probably would have been an inmate at Maximum security prison.

@babyosisi

u forgot to add that MO was a child molestor, an opportunist, some crazy psycho that sees women property and posession
infact come to think of it, inthe scorching desert heat of the middle east, he has to force women to cover them selves all up in black fromhead to toe, whilst the men go about in shorts and feel free

something must be wrong with MO

@Babyosisi;
As much as you may be eloquent in speech; it all amount to zero. A lie. You know, I used eloquency, thinking that it might help you to see the true picture of your error. First, Allah is the Almighty. Muhammad (AS) is the prophet that succeeded Jesus (AS). Qur'an is the revelation that came down to speak the truth; confirming all the truth that came before it. Not this fallacy perpetrated by Saul/paul,etc.

Your refusal of it will have no effect on it in this life; amongst the believers, it will have no effect on it in the day of Judgement. The day that will surely come, when the Lord of the World, the Almighty Allah, you stubbornly use small letter to write His name, will ask jesus if jesus had instructed any group of mankind to deitify him. In all the wise God knows and He has put forth the event in the Qur'an for those who have eyes to read it, those who have heart and mind to take it and ponder on it.

It is Islam who brought slavery to an end. later on, the Europeans enslaved West Africa, your family and mine and some they carted to Euro and the americas. You need to be truthful I am sure it will be difficult, but try. Further amount gender equality, it was islam that liberated Women from the yoke of man's domination. The Europeans just copied that not even more than 200 years ago. In Europe and america, women are looked as part of the man's property. the women in america did not have the right to vote until less than 150 years ago, even less. Only few had the right to owning lands and other esential properties.

There were very wealthy women among the early muslims, not just khadijah, (RA). There were scholars and nurses. there were who had more holdings than their husbands and used to give charity to their husbands. It is islamic tradition that whatever a woman acquires belongs to her alone. her husband and her men folks have no right over its usage. That is very different from cultural arabic tradition or for that matter the african tradition.

Even here, i have used the islamic tradition to approach you. It is possible that any man's heart will lean towards a woman. This is why i have spoken to you that I will introduce you to a woman. If it was the african tradition in me, then the condition will be different.

As to the women covering; the question really, who is forcing the women in the west to cover themselves. Yet they do it and they are better for it. Are you ladies going about naked. What value is your body when you have exposed it to all the men in the street when you out from your home.

Please take what is good in the west and do not be like the one who does not know the difference between right and wrong.

Anyway, if you live in cold climate, Winter will be here soo. No one will have to tell you to cover up. Yet, when you do it, it will not benefit you because you are obeying the injuction of GOD. DId Jesus (AS) mother, Mariam not cover herself.

Who is better inthe sight of God, the modest woman like mariam or the todays woman who will even show her undergarment, yet she thinks she is dressed.

@olabowale,

You have not ceased to spread ignorance on the world wide web, baa? This is nothing but ignorance gone on rampage. From one thread to another, you never cease to amaze me with your ignorant statements backed by unbridled zeal.

It is getting harder to respond to the guy.
His postings sound rather uncordinated and as tough he were somewhat disoriented.

He is probably the only one on earth who does not know that Muslims in Sudan are still raiding,raping and enslaving non Muslims in Sudan just like Muhammad did during his time and the Christians in the west are having to pay to free them.

Just google and see it for yourselves.
When I first came on this site,I did not want to disclose that I was female and 99% thought I was male and addressed me as a dude or 'he' and when I posted something that that identified me as female suddenly Olabowale and others see it as a reason to take me less seriously.

How interesting!!!.

Your prophet Muhammad was no good,he was no moral example even for a dog.
Too bad the truth hurts but nevertheless the truth prevails.

@ kaercy 5,thanks for the additions,they know that too.

@babyosisi,

How dare you expect olabowale and co to take you seriously!!  Don't you know their prophet said your testimony is half of that of a man?!

you got that right.
In a religion where a woman is nothing but a sex object and a child producing machine that can be flogged and whipped by her husband and he'll still be koranically right,what else can I expect.

I don't blame these folks honestly.
Islam is the problem.
Mo laid a wrong foundation to satisfy his lusts and they are caught up in the whirlwind.

Christ only can save.

@Babyosisi; Since you have attacked my person, I need to point out feww things to you;
1) I joined this website just this past summer.
2) My interest is not to deride anyone and i do not think that is what i have done.
3) However, when you and your cohorts began to insult my Prophet, first I need to let you know that all you have written about him are lies.
4) People who are not even Muslims have written to praise him, From Mahaman Gandhi to Hart and others.
5) Your evil speech towards him will amount to no less than a witness against you before God in the Day of judgement. You belief in there is a Day of Judgement, dont you.
6) As far as I am concern, i have respected each and every one of you, men and women. If there is any good quality that i have displayed, it is Islam that has given it to me. If there is any bad behaviour in me, this is purely mine, alone. I have never threatened any body and it is not a quality of mine. Unfortunately, in your rage and that of those who support you in the like mind, you have failed to see that your personal/family experience, having lost people in riots, more ethnic than religious reason in your home country, you have been blinded by this.
7) You even claimed that the muslims in India/this is before pakistan broke away from them are the offending party between Hindu/Sikh. You need to ask the Indian muslims in India this before you begin to write your biases entries. You are entitled to your statements. however be truthful.

You and your kind will never hurt Islam, the last prophet of God, Muhammad (AS). Let us wait and see what will happen in the day of judgement. You and me will not be judged more harshly than an American, white or black. Everyone will be judged by the good he/she had sent forth.
To you is your religion to me is mine. I will never worship what you worship. Neither will you worship what i worship. To you your way, to me mine.

I have enough on my plate to be concern with your fragile emotion. My thought was that ou are a mature individual who could carry on a conversation, without that glass heart, like those others, who are like thugs; Everything that comes out of their heart is fight and more fight. Yet they do not know how the other person may receive it. It is not a personal issue with me. I am not interested in individual who have no respect and i will not respond to those entities again.

Of recent, in the past two decades, pakistan, a country that its population is 100% muslims, bangladesh taht is predominantly muslims elected as their heads of governments, Women. I can not say that about America, where there is that inequalities between Blacks /Whites.

Also, the duties and social advancements in islam are equally to both genders. The first, second and third generations of the muslims, the leadership, role, the educators and wealthy among them are both men and women. Muhammad (AS), some of you have the guille to say evil things about him, encouraged his followers to acquire knowledge even if they have to go to China for it. One can only imagine the effort it will take a person from Arabia to get to China. Yet some people like Bukhari at his tender age of 16, left Russia/Asia to acquire knowledge in Arabia.

I wonder how the Nigerians; realising that the whole of Igbo land is not without Muslims, however minor the population, the yoruba, even the most remote part of it is not without a good size of Muslims and then the North is not without its own elites of christians, speak with these amount of evil in them, about my beloved.

Muhammad (AS) was so trusted by his people, even at the height of their enemity towards him and his followers, the arabs never stopped using him as their Trustee, just as it was before he declared his messengership.

On this thread, you have christians force-feeding Muslims with Secularization of Islam. Do I need anybody to teach me Islam, especially when the individual (S) is not a Muslim. To teachyou have to know what you are teaching; islam is not a make up religion. it was completed before the Almighty called by His beloved Muhammad (AS) back to Him. You individuals who are not muslims may not like it, it does not matter Diddle.