true2god:

lfleak:
spot on!

hadith are written by people who lived several years after the prophet, they couple their story based on Hearsay... Hearsay stories will always have 2 form, it will contain the truth and the false... The Quran is the tool which will separate the truth from the false..

to teach me Islam, you will have to go back to primary scholl to learn simple sentence, you are even finding it hard to string words together to form a legif readable sentence..
Adultery, Drinking alcohol, going to hajj, praying are all mentioned in the Quran... But the PRACTISE( how to do it, where to do it, when to do it why to do it) were done by the prophet to show how to implement them and so recorded in the hadith... If the sharia doesn't comply with the Quran, it is INVALID...

plainbibletruth:


Your posts:

I have just 2 issues I need you to clarify:
Please explain them in “simple readable sentences” so that those of us who are not as well read as you are can comprehend easily.
1. If the quran says in 6:114: "Then is it other than Allah I should seek as judge while it is He who has revealed to you the Book explained in detail?" And those to whom We [previously] gave the Scripture know that it is sent down from your Lord in truth, so never be among the doubters."

And in 6:38 had said:"We did not leave anything out of this book"

Then in 16:89 it says this:"And [mention] the Day when We will resurrect among every nation a witness over them from themselves. And We will bring you, [O Muhammad], as a witness over your nation. And We have sent down to you the Book as clarification for all things and as guidance and mercy and good tidings for the Muslims."

Additionally in 18:54 that:"....He has revealed to you this book fully detailed"

Why does Islam need ANOTHER SET OF BOOKS for “PRACTISE of the laws” as you claim in one of your above pasted posts when the quran says in 6:114 – "....the Book explained in detail" and that “We DID NOT leave anything out of this book” (6:38) and also that “EXPLANATIONS” have been provided for “EVERYTHING” in “this book” i.e. the quran?
When 6:114 says it has revealed things “FULLY DETAILED” why do you need another book to give ADDITIONAL details as to the “PRACTISE”?
Is it that the quran is then not FULLY DETAILED and does not give ”EXPLANATIONS” for “EVERYTHING” ? And if so, is the quran’s claim not wrong if Moslems have to resort to the hadith and other sources at all for whatever clarification?

2. Is your praying 5 times a day SPECIFICALLY instructed in the quran? If so, where is that number of times of prayers (i.e. 5) commanded in the quran?

I await your response.

Empiree:
In addition to the above, the sentence أقِمِ الصلاة = establish prayer (singular form) was quoted 5 times in the Quran. The sentence أقيموا الصلاة= establish prayer (plural form) was quoted 12 times in the Quran.

As we know 12+5=17 which is the sum of the raka'at of our daily fard prayers!

The Verse 1 from above is written in the moshaf as follows حَفِظُوا عَلَى الصَّلَوَتِ وَالصَّلَوةِ الْوُسْطَى وَقُومُوا لِلَّهِ قَنِتِينَ.

If we count the number of Arabic letters at the right and left from the expression وَالصَّلَوةِ الْوُسْطَى = and the middle prayer.

We find it to be the exact middle of the Verse and each part at the left and right has 14 Arabic letters and if we ignore the independence of the letter "وَ" before "قُومُوا لِلَّهِ قَنِتِينَ" (and this makes this count a bit weak in my opinion) we could say that each part left right and middle of this Verse consists of 3 words and again 3+14=17.


Now, since you claimed you follow Jesus, kindly show us HOW TO PRAY in Christianity as "legislated" by Jesus?

plainbibletruth:


Whao!

So you have to go through all these arithmetic to arrive at 5 times a day prayers?

Please congratulate yourself!

plainbibletruth:


Whao!

So you have to go through all these arithmetic to arrive at 5 times a day prayers?

Please congratulate yourself!

lfleak:

Good! you both switched to learning mode.

1. Yea, the QURAN already addressed ALL the points you will need to be on the right path. BUT the PRACTISE was done by the prophet... A chemist somewhere has written a textbook on everything about Chemical reaction, then you won't understand unless being explained and practised in real life to you. same applies.

2. Like I said earlier above; It is the messenger that will teach and demonstrate HOW TO, WHEN TO, WHERE TO WHY TO WHO TO I have already touched out the 5 compulsory prayers above. If you expect me to show you where it is written like "O muslims, pray 5 times a day" then you are wrong.

"SO (GIVE) GLORY TO ALLAH, WHEN YE REACH EVENTIDE AND WHEN YE RISE IN THE MORNING;" 18 "YEA,TO HIM BE PRAISE, IN THE HEAVENS AND ON EARTH; AND IN THE LATE AFTERNOON AND WHEN THE DAY BEGINS TO DECLINE."

Empiree:
Exit if you have nothing to say. His question is answered

plainbibletruth:


1. So you admit that Islam DEPENDS not only on the quran BUT on other books even when the quran says it has given EVERYTHING IN DETAILS. Right?

2. See your post:


Nothing here states 5 times a day prayers. "EVENTIDE", "LATE AFTERNOON" and "WHEN THE DAY BEGINS TO DECLINE" mean the same thing. Unless you can prove otherwise.

Your friend tried to put some figures together to arrive at 5.

It appears the quran DOES NOT ACTUALLY say 5 and so it has to take some RIGMAROLE to confirm Islam's established position.

Can you make things simpler?

plainbibletruth:


[s]The question was - show from the quran where it says 5 times a day prayers.

What did you guys do - 1 + 1 divided by plus minus square root of multiplied by, .... bla bla bla

Remember the quran is supposed to be VERY PLAIN or CLEAR so, why the complications?[/s]

plainbibletruth:


The question was - show from the quran where it says 5 times a day prayers.

What did you guys do - 1 + 1 divided by plus minus square root of multiplied by, .... bla bla bla

Remember the quran is supposed to be VERY PLAIN or CLEAR so, why the complications?

lfleak:
If am to make things simply, I will have to axe your skull, then communicate with your brain directly....

plainbibletruth:


You only need to answer the questions in “simple readable sentences”. Those words in quotes are your words.

Why resort to Jihadist tactic?

1. DOES Islam DEPEND on the quran AND on other books even when the quran says it has given EVERYTHING IN DETAILS?

2. Praying 5 times a day is NOT SPECIFICALLY stated in the quran but have to be arrived at by deduction. Right?

lfleak:
your own case is even worse that true2god...
now open your mind and listen for the very last time...

1. Yes, the Qur'an is fully detailed. The Quran doesn't depend on other books rather, other books depends on the Qur'an. Other books serve as SUPPLIMENTARY ( according to google.com and dictonary.com means to enhancing something.)

2. As illustrated above, it's present in Qur'an, not by deduction but by common sense.

While you and your mate go online to search for SUPPOSED flaws in the Quran and Islam, all the flaws have been flawed, so I will advice you to continue bringing them to open your mind.

Mind you, you might want to help your brother true2god to lift the Catch22 trap he entered since morning...

"However, you can't expect it to contain step by step description (if that is the case, it will be taller than 6ft in size) because it covers almost everything. That is where the MESSENGER comes in."

plainbibletruth:


You need to calm down. These issues have eternal consequences so don't make them play issues.

Let's look at your comments.
Supplement means:
something that is added to something else in order to make it complete

Enhance:
to increase or improve (something)

Summary : The other books add to the quran to make it complete and better improved for comprehension. Therefore the quran's claim to be CLEAR ARABIC, FULLY DETAILED and CLARIFFICATION FOR ALL THINGS is false.

You even alluded to this when you wrote:

2. Neither the number 5 nor a listing in words of five times of prayer is found in the quran. We have proven that. You had to look for the 5 prayers by combining two verses to try to add up your figures without success. Your partner was not too helpful either.

Summary : Many practices in Islam are based on traditions rather any clear quranic injunctions.

lfleak:
lol! I already answered your question sharia questions up there...

lmao! I love the way you keep drifting away, shows you are learning...
now you have rolled to another topic!
Your question
are the ayah below part of the Sharia laws: NO.

I know where you are drifting to, continue... You still have a CATCH22 over you!

lfleak:
Good! You are now showing signs of learning...

The Quran is the GUIDE of all Muslims and Islam.
It contains almost all we need to be on the RIGHT PATH.
However, you can't expect it to contain step by step description (if that is the case, it will be taller than 6ft in size) because it covers almost everything. That is where the MESSENGER comes in. That's is what all prophet of Allah including Jesus was sent to do, to demonstrate and teach people how to be on the RIGHT PATH(siraato li mustaqqim). If the Qur'an tells us to Pray. It is the messenger that will teach and demonstrate HOW TO, WHEN TO, WHERE TO WHY TO WHO TO pray to. Same thing to all other concepts in the Quran. If you wish to learn more, drop your 3in1 and embrace Islam.

Note the capitalized and bolded!

lfleak:
Good! You are now showing signs of learning...

The Quran is the GUIDE of all Muslims and Islam.
It contains almost all we need to be on the RIGHT PATH.
However, you can't expect it to contain step by step description (if that is the case, it will be taller than 6ft in size) because it covers almost everything. That is where the MESSENGER comes in. That's is what all prophet of Allah including Jesus was sent to do, to demonstrate and teach people how to be on the RIGHT PATH(siraato li mustaqqim). If the Qur'an tells us to Pray. It is the messenger that will teach and demonstrate HOW TO, WHEN TO, WHERE TO WHY TO WHO TO pray to. Same thing to all other concepts in the Quran. If you wish to learn more, drop your 3in1 and embrace Islam.

Note the capitalized and bolded!

true2god:
So you can pick what you want from the Koran to make up your 'make believe' sharia law? No, thats not acceptable. The sharia law is the made up Koranic instructions, the sunnah of your prophet and the ways of the sahabas. As of fact, the Quran made a very insignificant contribution to the Islamic school of jurisprudence and the making of the sharia law itself. Stop deceiving yourself.

Go back and ask your Islamic teacher and stop being deceptive.

lfleak:
I understand the game you are trying to play...
Maybe a line statement will help you.
Anything that complies and accepted by the Quran is legit, but once it doesn't it is rejected..
The bolded is never violated unless it goes against any letter of the Quran..

true2god:
You never still establish, from the Koran, where allahh asked Muslims asked Muslims for a 5 times daily prayer. And FYI, the Shi'a official numbers of daily prayer is 3/against the shia 5. Who is right, the Shi'a or the Sunnis?

Empiree:
ogbeni, even rilwayne001 explained this to you months ago. Shia prayed 5 prayers sir you are looking for unsuspecting folks to fool. Ain't gonna work

lfleak:
the bolded! And u will teach me Islam? Nah no way..

true2god:
[s]See links on how many times the Shi'a and the Sunnis pray:

www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-shia-and-sunni-namaz/

www.prayertimenyc.com/muslim-shia-prayer-times/

shiastudies.org/article/shi-a-prayer-rituals

I didn't write the articles above but Muslims do. Why are Muslims confused on this matter. I think its because the Koran didn't provide the necessary guidance with respect to the number of times Muslims should pray in a day.[/s]

Empiree:
he's trying to trick you. I know him well and I know how to handle him . He's full of WAYO. If you are not careful he's going to make you hate yourself. He can't dare me though.

Ask him what is "bible studies" (where verses or passages of bible are explained) to them is derived from and from whose authority?

true2god:
You never still establish, from the Koran, where allahh asked Muslims asked Muslims for a 5 times daily prayer. And FYI, the Shi'a official numbers of daily prayer is 3/against the shia 5. Who is right, the Shi'a or the Sunnis?

lfleak:
With these, true2god + plainbibletruth couldn't escape my catch22.
If only you can even try...

Empiree:
he's trying to trick you. I know him well and I know how to handle him . He's full of WAYO. If you are not careful he's going to make you hate yourself. He can't dare me though.

Ask him what is "bible studies" (where verses or passages of bible are explained) to them is derived from and from whose authority?

plainbibletruth:


It clear that it's you and your partner who are CAUGHT in your 2+2 = 5 prayer tangle

Bottom line: Islam needs to call a CONFERENCE, agree on what to harmonize in its holy books and come up with a new and more widely acceptable Islam.

Otherwise Islam will SELF-DESTRUCT!.

true2god:
WAYO as in what? Is it a crime for me to articulate my argument properly? When you can't handle the truth you call it WAYO.

Attacking me personally cannot help you and has never helped anyone. You need to take a second look at your Islamic source documents and see that its full of fraud and has nothing to do with allahh and Mohammed. I have provided an hadith which proved that even your present Koran is the idea of Abu Bakr and Omar, and was compiled by uthman, the 3rd khalifa.

In your mosques and madrasas you were told that allahh handed over the Quran to Mohammed which you believed since your childhood days hence find it hard to believe that no allahh handed over any Quran to Mohammed. You need not believe me, but believe in your sahih bukhari, sahih Muslim and the sunnah of Abu dawood and Ibn majjah which all claimed that Quran is the work of the 1st to the 3rd khalifa.

See what Aisha herself said about your Koran, which you all claimed God personally sent down to Mohammed. Sunnah Ibn majjah hadith number 1944:

It was narrated that 'Aishah said:
“The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed 1 , and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.”

Lookup the above hadith, even allahh cannot protect your Koran from an ordinary goat and what the you guys are telling is that 'THE QURAN IS PERFECT'.

Perfect ko, prefect ni! Mtcheeeeewww. Oshi ati iranu.

lfleak:
your last line shows your pain, you are so pained Islam has gained ground and spreading to all corners.. Self destruct? Lol! Go check on your brothers, they all atheists now.. Tell me who is destructing? Meanwhile both of you are ignoring the question..