DoctorAlien:


I don't have the strength to repeat the same thing over and over again.

So humans can get vitamin c from fruits because God made it so but cancers and ectopic pregnancies is because of sin?
Clap for yourself Harvey "Two Face" Dent

CatfishBilly:

So humans can get vitamin c from fruits because God made it so but cancers and ectopic pregnancies is because of sin?
Clap for yourself Harvey "Two Face" Dent

This one weak me. Shows you don't even understand what I've been saying since.

What are fruits? Are they not bunches of nutrient growing on trees, meant to be ingested for modest pleasure and nourishment?

Oga, disease, death, infirmities and degradation didn't exist before sin came in.

DoctorAlien:

Oga, disease, death, infirmities and degradation didn't exist before sin came in.

this is an assertion with no evidence to back it up except a folktale handed down by ancient barbaric tribes who lived in desert Palestine millennia ago

hopefulLandlord:


this is an assertion with no evidence to back it up except a folktale handed down by ancient barbaric tribes who lived in desert Palestine millennia ago

Still makes more sense that whatever you sin-loving lot can come up with.

DoctorAlien:


Still makes more sense that whatever you sin-loving lot can come up with.

what you also describe as "sin" has nothing backing it up except a folktale handed down by ancient barbaric tribes who lived in desert Palestine millennia ago

hopefulLandlord:


what you also describe as "sin" has nothing backing it up except a folktale handed down by ancient barbaric tribes who lived in desert Palestine millennia ago

Is that not what you recite to yourself every day, so you can continue sleeping with any and every lady available, and use nasty words and live the way you want?

Is that not why you're an "atheist"?

DoctorAlien:


Is that not what you recite to yourself every day, so you can continue sleeping with any and every lady available, and use nasty words and live the way you want?

Is that not why you're an "atheist"?

is that your holy spirit in action

DoctorAlien:


Oga, disease, death, infirmities and degradation didn't exist before sin came in.

You got this how?
Through hours of pain staking research and analyzing the genome of Adam and Eve before they ate the forbidden fruit?

CatfishBilly:


You got this how?
Through hours of pain staking research and analyzing the genome of Adam and Eve before they ate the forbidden fruit?

I knew it when I realized that the Bible was always true.

DoctorAlien:


Is that not what you recite to yourself every day, so you can continue sleeping with any and every lady available, and use nasty words and live the way you want?

Is that not why you're an "atheist"?

So Christians don't do these things? Don't talk crap pls,


bunch of fake ppl

DoctorAlien:


I knew it when I realized that the Bible was always true.

And the design flaws found in animals plus their cancers is because they also sinned against God abi?

CatfishBilly:

And the design flaws found in animals plus their cancers is because they also sinned against God abi?

The whole of creation groans under the curse of sin(see Romans 8:22). To Adam was committed the earth and all that it contains, and so his choices affected the earth with all contained in it.

ilynem:

Abundant imperfections you say? Like??

Like earthquakes and tsunamis

DoctorAlien:


The whole of creation groans under the curse of sin(see Romans 8:22). To Adam was committed the earth and all that it contains, and so his choices affected the earth with all contained in it.

For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
Romans 8:22 NKJV
That's what it says, there is no sin there.
Abi the Holy Ghost told you that there's sin there that we can't see?

CatfishBilly:

For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
Romans 8:22 NKJV
That's what it says, there is no sin there.
Abi the Holy Ghost told you that there's sin there that we can't see?

I'm particularly glad that atheistic thoughts, that this dude has exposed himself to over time, have sufficiently turned him away from Bible into the edge of seeing God idea, for what it's - absurdities.

randomperson:

Like earthquakes and tsunamis

These aren't imperfections in creation. Evil came into the world when sin did.

That's just absurd.
Leaders of the ID movement don't even subscribe to this sin nonsense.
Their take is that God created a perfect world without flaws, period.

CatfishBilly:

What do you have against Wikipedia as a source?
Can you write such comprehensive research article?
They don't have a hypothesis because they are like Yem-Kem tradomedical herbs. They are pseudoscience.



Now you're committing Argumentum ad ignorantiam.

What foolish comprehensive research article. I'm coming back to point numerous flaws in this article with my questions and get ready to answer it.

luvmijeje:


What foolish comprehensive research article. I'm coming back to point numerous flaws in this article with my questions and get ready to answer it.

I'm patiently waiting as always.
No run when the heat gets too much.

Luvmijeje, I still dey wait you.
I actually went through some of your threads, you don tay for Nairaland and you had some making sense threads and posts.
Bring it while coming, hopefully

CatfishBilly:

Okay, address ectopic and abdominal pregnancies and how flawed the retina is.
While you're at it, also add shortening telomeres that lead to cancers and failed mutation repairs that lead to cancer

Given the harmful effects of random mutations it is idiotic to think they built all the traits of lifeforms.

CatfishBilly:
It's becoming quite apparent that when Christians get cornered in their argument for a 7 day creation story, they switch to an Intelligent Design argument (Nature is so intelligently designed and fits so seamlessly, so, it has to be God).

You lost me here. That is not the ID argument. Clearly you are ignorant about ID. Do your due research then I may respond. Go to ID websites and see what they say.

CatfishBilly:

But the argument is flawed and largely based on 2 things,
1) Argumentum ad ignorantiam: Argument from ignorance. We don't know, so, God.
2) God of the gaps: There is a gap in the demonstrable knowledge of science, therefore, God.

Strawman of argument leads to invalid rebuttals.

CatfishBilly:

Proponents of Intelligent Design present their argument for a deistic God but further probing and investigation of the leaders of the Intelligent Design movement show that they are arguing for a Christian God which makes it no different from creationists.

ID theory does not argue for a God. People use the theory to argue for God. That's different.

CatfishBilly:

The science community all over the world has largely debunked the idea of Intelligent Design based largely on the fact that they don't have a demonstrable hypothesis despite the fact that the leaders of Intelligent Design movement are scientists.
Infact, it has been classed as a Pseudoscience right in the group of allopathic and homeopathic medicine.

Nonsense from someone ignorant of what he's writing about.

CatfishBilly:

Proponents of Intelligent Design largely fail to explain obvious design flaws in their intelligent design.

They do. 1) Bad design does not equal no design. Bad designs are still designed by an intelligence. 2) Many claims of bad design fail upon closer analysis. 3) All designs work within constraints and requires trade-offs that may make it appear badly designed. 4) There so much unknown about organisms so some bad design claims are premature. 5) There are lots of sophisticated designs in life. Biomimetics is a field of science that is dedicated to copying desigms from living things. Velcro and airplanes involve designs copied from lifeforms.

CatfishBilly:

So, by and large, Intelligent Design is a movement created by creationists when faced with the absurdities of a 7 day creation story.

Beware of the genetic fallacy. The origin or motive of a claim does not impinge on its validity. It should only be evaluated on its merits.

CatfishBilly:

You can read more on
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_poor_design

This explains your ignorance. Wikipedia does not accurately depict ID.

CatfishBilly:

Intelligent debates and comments are welcome

IMO someone who concludes life came about naturally and aas not designed is abusing their intelligence.

UyiIredia:


Given the harmful effects of random mutations it is idiotic to think they built all the traits of lifeforms.

So random mutations are an evidence of an Intelligent designer?
As a side note, not all random mutations are harmful
Sickle cell carrier gene is a beneficial mutation it protects against malaria.
CCR5 receptor gene mutation is beneficial, it protects against HIV

UyiIredia:


You lost me here. That is not the ID argument. Clearly you are ignorant about ID. Do your due research then I may respond. Go to ID websites and see what they say.



Strawman of argument leads to invalid rebuttals.



ID theory does not argue for a God. People use the theory to argue for God. That's different.



Nonsense from someone ignorant of what he's writing about.



They do. 1) Bad design does not equal no design. Bad designs are still designed by an intelligence. 2) Many claims of bad design fail upon closer analysis. 3) All designs work within constraints and requires trade-offs that may make it appear badly designed. 4) There so much unknown about organisms so some bad design claims are premature. 5) There are lots of sophisticated designs in life. Biomimetics is a field of science that is dedicated to copying desigms from living things. Velcro and airplanes involve designs copied from lifeforms.



Beware of the genetic fallacy. The origin or motive of a claim does not impinge on its validity. It should only be evaluated on its merits.



This explains your ignorance. Wikipedia does not accurately depict ID.



IMO someone who concludes life came about naturally and aas not designed is abusing their intelligence.

From all you've written there, it's obvious you know nothing about ID. Go and read about them, then we'll talk.
Do you mind if I suggest some materials?

CatfishBilly:
Luvmijeje, I still dey wait you.
I actually went through some of your threads, you don tay for Nairaland and you had some making sense threads and posts.
Bring it while coming, hopefully

I deh come o.

CatfishBilly
The science community all over the world has largely debunked the idea of Intelligent Design based largely on the fact that they don't have a demonstrable hypothesis despite the fact that the leaders of Intelligent Design movement are scientists.

My questions. It's not God... . No wahala but then who?

If you are saying there is no demonstrative hypothesis... Okayy.. .. .. Then what demonstrable hypothesis do you have that it's something else?

If you are disproving a thing then the onerous is on you to logically disprove it.

luvmijeje:


My questions. It's not God... . No wahala but then who?

If you are saying there is no demonstrative hypothesis... Okayy.. .. .. Then what demonstrable hypothesis do you have that it's something else?

If you are disproving a thing then the onerous is on you to logically disprove it.

So, any unknown entity or concept is ascribed to God?
That shouldn't be so. We don't know, they've come out to say they don't know, but ID people are pushing a theory with absolutely nothing to back up their claims. If you have a theory, then bring proofs.
Nobody knows for now, that doesn't mean that the mystery won't be solved in a hundred years from now and this mystery would be solved.

CatfishBilly:

So, any unknown entity or concept is ascribed to God?
That shouldn't be so. We don't know, they've come out to say they don't know, but ID people are pushing a theory with absolutely nothing to back up their claims. If you have a theory, then bring proofs.
Nobody knows for now, that doesn't mean that the mystery won't be solved in a hundred years from now and this mystery would be solved.

Then you can't disproved it. You can't accuse me of speaking from a place of ignorance when you are speaking from a place of ignorance.

You are accusing them of the same thing you're guilty of.

luvmijeje:


Then you can't disproved it. You can't accuse me of speaking from a place of ignorance when you are speaking from a place of ignorance.

You are accusing them of the same thing you're guilty of.

They are different things, I don't know and I'm honest about it, the other party however is like, "I don't know, so, it's God" without any proof. That is what is called Argumentum ad ignorantiam.
See? Only one party is making an argument that they can't prove.

CatfishBilly:

They are different things, I don't know and I'm honest about it, the other party however is like, "I don't know, so, it's God" without any proof. That is what is called Argumentum ad ignorantiam.
See? Only one party is making an argument that they can't prove.

That’s not true We are speaking from the point of Faith. We are speaking from the point of our personal relationship with God. Which cannot be proven by human standard.

Nobody can prove God. If you can't prove otherwise then you have no right to impinge on my faith.

luvmijeje:

That’s not true We are speaking from the point of Faith. We are speaking from the point of our personal relationship with God. Which cannot be proven by human standard.

Nobody can prove God. If you can't prove otherwise then you have no right to impinge on my faith.

I'm not impinging on your faith, far from it.
So, faith is your proof then?

CatfishBilly:

I'm not impinging on your faith, far from it.
So, faith is your proof then?

That's what Christianity is all about. Without faith you can't serve God.