MayorofLagos:


Read the paper and disqualify its claims using your own historical factd, to include origin of the Ogisos and their chronological reigns.

Mere statement will not cut it

I am also interested in knowing their origin.

MayorofLagos:


Read the paper and disqualify its claims using your own historical factd, to include origin of the Ogisos and their chronological reigns.

Mere statement will not cut it

Olu, please dont respond to him anymore. Let him do what mayor has prescribed.

Areafada you are confused, just like your Edo historians. You and your co-travellers know the chronology of German and English Kings and their origin but when asked to bring origin and chronology of Ogiso you begin to stammer and calling Julius Ceasar and King George I to attach and rescue you.

This is between Yoruba and Edo, leave fulani out of it, leave arab out of it, dont call on julius ceasar and forget king george ever existed....just focus on your Ogisos and their origin from Ife. If you say they are not from Ife then telll us where they came from. Is that too hard?

We are talking of Ogiso and Oba dynasties originating from Ile Ife. If you dispute it as presented in the paper shared by metaphysical then give us a counter knowledge that convincingly discredits the scholars.

AreaFada2:


A very desperate SW attempt here again. There is no single historical evidence of any yoruboid influence on Benin Monarchy before Oranmiyan.

How many monarchs had Ife before Izoduwa/Oduduwa? Benin had around 35 Ogisos already before Izoduwa. You mean a group of primitive Ife farmers and hunter/gatherers planted ogiso monarchy at Udo around 40BC but yet it took Izoduwa's children a millennium plus later to conquer nearby Yoruba settlements?
I think this is a poor and watery attempt at reverse psychology and revisionism.

Ogiso is still a myth until further archaeological evidence suggest otherwise. I'm not here to claim superiority, but it's a bit hypocritical to say that the Yoruba's version of Oduduwa is a myth while at the same time holding to your ogiso tales.

Very funny that Benin Art is more famous than Ife art. grin cheesy
Ife trying to take credit for Benin art by attaching to it.

I have not only seen it at The British Mueseum, I have seen it at Das Musuem fuer Voelkerkunde in Berlin, the former Musee des Arts d'Afrique et d'Oceanie (Former French president Chirac is even a big fan/connoisseur of Benin arts) in Paris, now moved to Musee du Quai Branly, , Amsterdam Museum and several others across the world. I can recommend many others to you to see.

Still attaching to Benin art is somehow demeaning. Appreciate it fine.
By 40BC Ife was pretty primitive. Benin already had an Ogiso/Oba-godo and it took Izoduwa to bring monarchy to Ife around 1150 AD. So yes, if they were sophisticated, they would have developed a better organised & centralised leadership before that.

You must be joking. Your point is inconclusive. Ife was more primitive than Bini because you had ogisos and Ife didn't . Please give me hard evidence and not myths. Ife throne predates 1150 A.D that you cite there. The Akure throne was already established by that time. No one knows what political system the people at Ife had before Oduduwa which means you can't draw any conclusions from that. I guess you are an expert seeing that you have already jumped on the conclusion that they were primitive after you time traveled to the past to confirm that they didn't have a proper political system prior.

Well the Arabs & Muslims always wanted to determine Yoruba's fate. They even gave the name "Yoruba." Benin were much too stubborn. Fighting off Jihadists in Edo North ans still fighting the British as late as 1897 when all Yoruba kings had already meekly signed humiliating treaties. grin cheesy

I see your intent. Stop fabricating lies to make Benin look bigger than it is. You are trying to take away from the fact that Yoruba had fought a number of wars include the civil war and Jihad wars prior to the British. You are discrediting that by saying that Benin also fought Jihad as well as the British at the same time. Seriously you must be joking. Jihad in Edo North?? That's a new one. Between Edo North and the Sokoto caliphate, there is a huge stretch of land from Suleja across the Niger to Kogi and then Edo North. The caliphate was no where near Edo. The Jihadist frontlines were in Nupeland and in the Northern parts of Oyo including Ilorin. The Yorubas are credited with stopping the jihadist expansion when almost half of Nigeria had been conquered. Maybe if Yorubas didn't launch a strong defense to push back the Fulani, the entire South would have been overrun by Sokoto. How does emir of Auchi sound like? emir of Uromi? Grand emir of Benin?

Respected by white people, buhahahaha. You know Oyinbo like those they have managed to fool. Benin of about 4 million people punches way higher in world artistic recognition than Yoruba of same population would have been. You say Oyinbo do not do studies into Benin history, why is it that BBC documentaries about African civilisation necessarily includes a long part of Benin history? Because they know the value & quality of it. Is BBC owned by Gombe or Akwa Ibom govt? shocked shocked
I happen to have several books on Benin History, Benin Royal Court, etc by white people like Bondarenko, Midwinter, Bradbury & others. The books cost me from $90 to about $450 each. Which not highly respected history deserves books by foreigners that cost that much? grin grin

in any case we do need Oyinbo to give a sense of self-worth. Far much less the Arabs that still treat African domestic servants in the gulf as personal property today.

"higher artistic recognition than Yoruba"
You wish....yet many of your artistic, spiritual and religious practices, you took from the "inferior" Yoruba. Wasn't Yoruba the official language among Benin elites in the day....

Yoruba art from Ife predates Benin by far. It remains one of the most hyper-realistic art in the world from the time period surpassing the quality made in Europe. It confused the Europeans that they were willing to believe the people who made it were European descended from the lost Atlantis colony meaning that they were pairing Yoruba's artistry with that of Europe if not better.

BBC has made numerous documentary on Yoruba history. BBC made an entire documentary about a bronze head from Ife....ONE BRONZE HEAD. It fascinated the British so much that the oyinbos spent so much time, effort and money trying to uncover its "mysteries."

Art is also not limited to sculptures or casts, it's incorporated into language, poetry, customs, music,and religion. Yoruba artistry is recognized among diasporas in 3 continents influencing the traditions, music, religion and language in different parts of the world.

So...higher recognition my foot.

Oba of Benin doesn't even travel around doing PR o. He does not go to Brazil, Cuba or other God-forsaken places Yoruba slaves ended up, like your Obas do, embarrassing in my view. What could be more civilised than refusing to sell our people (Edo) into slavery when other Africans were busy selling themselves & the Europeans were trading in humans. At that point, Benin civilisation easily trumped the Muslim Arabs, Catholic & protestant Europeans who engaged in that barbaric trade.

You think the Ooni is doing PR for attention. Lol, he got invited to many of these places and he accepted the invitations.
It's true the Oba at times banned slaves from being sold to the Europeans, however women slaves could be sold as well as prisoners of war. Men slaves were also sold in certain time periods. Benin participated in the slave trade, although it was sporadic and in limited amount, but still nonetheless.

AreaFada2:


Lol. No Yoruba invaded an inch of Edo land.

Whereas Benin took large swathes of Yorubaland, especially Eastern Yorubaland. I know because I still have relatives there including a first class King. The boundary agreed between Benin Empire & Oyo was at Otun (today in Northern Ekiti). The treaty was between Aare Ona Kankanfo of Oyo & Iyase Ekpenede of Benin. Check your history. And Benin founded Lagos monarchy through Esipka/Asipa & Prince Ado of Benin. Benin practically lost Lagos when Oba Kosoko was deposed in 1854 (actual signing of Epe Treaty with the British). That history is well-known. A son of a late Oba of Lagos personally confirmed that history to me. Oba Adolo of Benin instructed Oba/Eleko Dosunmu to allow Kosoko return from Epe to Lagos in 1860. But with British naval guns supporting him & British controlling him, it was the first time an Eleko dared to refuse Benin's command & officially stop paying annual tribute to Benin.

Over the years here on NL many of your people have come up with mushroom papers that hold no water. Only to disappear. None of them has even dared to claim Yoruba invasion of Benin land. Your own new invention is like AY comedy. Very dry indeed.
Julius Caesar is relevant because it shows leadership & organisation is key, not size. And the Oba himself led army to war, like Caesar did.

When Omonoyan, son of Izoduwa returned to Benin, he never even set foot in Benin. Some powerful Benin chieftains led by Chief Ogiamien refused him access to Ogiso palace. It took his great grandson (4 generations later) Oba Ewedo to overcome the resistance & enter Benin City proper. The heat of politics was too much that Omonoyan (Oranmiyan) left Benin suburb that he stayed and returned to Yorubaland. A relative of mine remains the Duke of one of the ancient Villages near Omonoyan's palace. Though Benin suburb today, they were outside villages then.
The Oba took his Regnal title Ewuare, last year on the same grounds near my relative's palace, just like Omonoyan's son Eweka I first did in about 1170AD. The issue of invasion does not arise.

It is nothing new for a royal relative in another land to return as King. In 1714, George Elector of Hanover, Germany, became King George I of England, being the closest relative of Childless Queen Anne of England who was trusted to be non-catholic. The Royal family of today comes from that German King. Being German & not kin on staying in England, he Chose Robert Walpole to become The First Minister. That is how Prime Minister position began in England. No invasion.

The Danish-German prince that became King of Greece is the ancestor of Prince Philip, husband of Queen Elizabeth of England today. Many other examples, earlier & later abound. E.g. William, Duke of Normandy (France) waged war on England's King Harold to reclaim the crown of his relative King Edward The Confessor, only because the crown due him was usurped by King Harold. That was even in 1066.

You need to understand comparative history to free your mind from narrow tribalistic chest-beating.

Omonoyan was a returnee Ogiso descendant. Via Prince Ekaladerhan who took Izoduwa as regnal name in Ife.

I am not talking based just on books. But based on history that lives & breathes in Benin. Used daily in songs, proverbs, morning greeting "oriki", royal ceremonial re-enactments, traditional worship, etc. Each time I visit my relative's palace there, the whole history of Eweka dynasty is rekindled.

What did we need Ebira for?
Benin was an astute Empire builder. Ebira was not on a trade route we needed, so why needed them? Whereas Eastern Yorubaland was useful. And Lagos Lagoon was important too from the Atlantic on the other side as was part of Ijebu on land towards Lagos.
Benin had to manage human & material resources very efficiently for best results. We didn't have populations needing huge land for resettlement. We needed vassals paying tributes & facilitating security & trade while maintaining core Benin population in Benin area. To the point prohibiting slave trading in Benin persons or by Benin persons & tribal tatoos & marks were made to identify Benin citizens.

Benin was one of the few nations worldwide with a standing army under Chief Ezomo, field commander of royal Army. A fact confirmed in the 1700s by A French slave trader who tried in vain to buy shiploads of slaves from the strong army of Benin from Ezomo. The same time Oyo thrived on slave trade.

I mock your ignorance on this mention of slavery because it showed your little knowledge on Oyo . Slavery came heavily when Dahomey King (GEEZU) invaded part of Yoruba and destruction of OLD OYO ILE by Afonja and his lieutenants . SO, it is not relevant because no Yoruba were sold outrightly during the period Oyo was in charge. And not when the Empire had rebellious Warriors as result of collapsing Empire . You see, Once again, you have been taught falsified lies. How can a landlocked Edo invaded Lagos without firstly fighting against Itsekiri, Ilaje even ijebu before getting across through Lagos? You guys are bunch of liars. BINI had no military might. I raised a questions ,which you cowardly ignored . If BINI was that strong, how come she didn't fight against Ebira? what about Tapa? What about Fulanis?, When Ebira invaded part of Edo and brought Islam during late 18th century , what did your King do? If not because BRITISH government that subdued the Yoruba baloguns in Ilorin in 1897, Pure Yoruba blood of Afonja descendant would have overturned the tide of being the leader of ILORIN . Ilorin strength was created by British government then. Mind you, even the Ilorin Islamic leader(EMIR ILORIN) had a matrilineal Yoruba Lineage. So, 1770s military might didn't make BINI had dominion over Ebira etc? A joke information, you have given. John Alveiro even confirmed OBA BINI had a father at ILE IFE. So what's your point?, My own Father Luusi has an off shoot at USI EKITI, EMURE EKITI, IKOLE EKITI, OKE IMESI, ARA ORIN IN IGBOMINA etc. What is the testimony of your fake BINI history? You think, I am one those who just come online without adequate information of who he is. You must be a new person in history. You kept claiming Places, and they kept denying you. For your information, BINI at one time claimed ONDO town, Claimed OWO , CLAIMED OWNERSHIP OF IFA, CLAIMED OLOKUN, CLAIMED OGUN and IDUNGARAN. You have mentioned Ashipa, as if it is a BINI name. Stop peddling lies all about because Yoruba didn't find it necessary to attach sentiments to it. Whose lineage did the Ashipa came out from BINI? Little did you know that many proper Indigene came from ILE IFE with ORANMIYAN. WITHOUT these people, mention other IGODOMOGODO people. You have no HISTORY without Yoruba. Oh No, what a pity! You mentioned French Army acknowledging one man? When Infact Yoruba woman called Carlotta in Cuba was even acknowledged even CUBA. You are here comparing hundreds of thousands awesome and fearsome warriors. Are you sure, it was BINI or BÉNIN? You better get the information correct? Where did Landlocked BINI had contact with FRENCH ARMY? It is the same thing, I have written about you guys. Lies! lies!! lies!!! Dahomey Kingdom was what the British Soldiers fought against and it was recorded that Dahomey at one time was paying tribute to Oyo Empire. Who paid tribute to BINI Kingdom? BINI was at best carving sculpture to boast their small enclave town. The IDUNGARAN that thrived was under IJESHA MAN'S DESCENDANTS. What story are you inferring? The Ogun, IFA, Olokun, etc you worship today were all Yoruba owned. You lay claim to something and yet you people couldn't defend how it came into being. No known story of Yoruba princes who came to BINI to visit that didn't return. There are record of these. In fact when they depart, it is always with a lot gifts to follow them. History of interaction is always there to open this up. Yoruba even thought you how to Wear clothes. After all, it is Yoruba ASO OKE you wear. What are you really thinking to come do some irrelevant comparative between BINI and YORUBA. Yoruba men are always Hot cake for BINI ladies even if they come in contact. Even if he such men were married. WE GOT STYLE THAT MAKE PEOPLE WANT AN ATTACHE LIKE IGODO DID when they came to beg someone that we can rule OVER YOU. AND We are still ruling over you. Have you done population statistics? kindly don't add AMERICAS TO IT BECAUSE IT MAY GIVE YOU MORE SHOCK than you can imagine.



Cheers

It is obvious the Yoruba's by all means wants to be meaningful and look important by attaching itself to the benins, with all their rich culture it is obvious they crave importance if seen to be higher than the Benin's they should just relax and accept the fact that Yoruba's and Benin's are related one way or the other

Olu317:
You see, Once again, you have been taught falsified lies. How can a landlocked Edo invaded Lagos without firstly fighting against Itsekiri, Ilaje even ijebu before getting across through Lagos? You guys are bunch of liars. BINI had no military might. I raised a questions ,which you cowardly ignored . If BINI was that strong, how come she didn't fight against Ebira? My own Father Luusi has an off shoot at USI EKITI, EMURE EKITI, IKOLE EKITI, OKE IMESI, ARA ORIN IN IGBOMINA etc. What is the testimony of your fake BINI history? You think, I am one those who just come online without adequate information of who he is. You must be a new person in history. You kept claiming Places, and they kept denying you. For your information, BINI at one time claimed ONDO town, Claimed OWO , CLAIMED OWNERSHIP OF IFA, CLAIMED OLOKUN, CLAIMED OGUN and IDUNGARAN. You have mentioned Ashipa, as if it is a BINI name. Stop peddling lies all about because Yoruba didn't find it necessary to attach sentiments to it. Whose lineage did the Ashipa came out from BINI? Little did you know that many proper Indigene came from ILE IFE with ORANMIYAN. WITHOUT these people, mention other IGODOMOGODO people. You have no HISTORY without Yoruba. Oh No, what a pity! You mentioned French Army acknowledging one man? When Infact Yoruba woman called Carlotta in Cuba was even acknowledged even CUBA. You are here comparing hundreds of thousands awesome and fearsome warriors. Are you sure, it was BINI or BÉNIN? You better get the information correct? Where did Landlocked BINI had contact with FRENCH ARMY? It is the same thing, I have written about you guys. Lies! lies!! lies!!! Dahomey Kingdom was what the British Soldiers fought against and it was recorded that Dahomey at one time was paying tribute to Oyo Empire. Who paid tribute to BINI Kingdom? BINI was at best carving sculpture to boast their small enclave town. The IDUNGARAN that thrived was under IJESHA MAN'S DESCENDANTS. What story are you inferring? The Ogun, IFA, Olokun, etc you worship today were all Yoruba owned. You lay claim to something and yet you people couldn't defend how it came into being. No known story of Yoruba princes who came to BINI to visit that didn't return. There are record of these. In fact when they depart, it is always with a lot gifts to follow them. History of interaction is always there to open this up. Yoruba even thought you how to Wear clothes. After all, it is Yoruba ASO OKE you wear. What are you really thinking to come do some irrelevant comparative between BINI and YORUBA. Yoruba men are always Hot cake for BINI ladies even if they come in contact. Even if he such men were married. WE GOT STYLE THAT MAKE PEOPLE WANT AN ATTACHE LIKE IGODO DID when they came to beg someone that we can rule OVER YOU. AND We are still ruling over you. Have you done population statistics? kindly don't add AMERICAS TO IT BECAUSE IT MAY GIVE YOU MORE SHOCK than you can imagine.

Cheers

Hahahahaha!

Falsified lies?
This one that Oyo or Modakeke (allegedly fleeing Oyos resettled in Ijesha lands near Ife) cannot even agree with Ife on one history?

You want the Edos to with a very ancient & consistent history to believe the story spawn at Ibadan meant to foster Yoruba unity? First convince the Ilajes & Ijaw within Yorubaland first.

At least Benin has one consistent history. Don't you think a group of people with many different versions of one story have to go back and do their home work?

While Yoruba can attach to Hausa who need their fair number of voters to maintain hegemony, the political calculus of a dysfunctional country has no impression on Benin whatsoever. The noise you guys are making in recent decades is over population power block. They are now trying to falsify a historical basis for that too. Woefully embarrassing from the various inconsistent versions I read here often.

As was clear in 1963 referendum to create Midwest region, the Edos & Delta are not people amenable to be impressed by ogboju tactics from other people.

Fact is since 1897, we are basically doing siddon look. Maintaining our unique culture & royalty above anything that a dysfunctional Nigerian entity can offer. Because knowing our fellow Nigerians very well over the centuries before colonial rule, we know the antics of the Jahadists up North, who want a caliphate spanning all of 9ja & and our Yoruba neighbours with whom you cannot expect an agreement reached this morning to be kept again this evening.

AreaFada2:


Hahahahaha!

^^ Guy, pls just answer the thread question for the sake of us interested in Knowing, and stop beating around the bush.

YonkijiSappo:


^^ Guy, pls just answer the thread question for the sake of us interested in Knowing, and stop beating around the bush.

Which question?
You think I am jobless to go into those clearly fabricated Ibadan University press stuff & those fed to some foreigners by SW historians?

I just enlighten those capable of learning about history. I have taken time patiently in the past to answer questions raised by every "manliness" and Harry from SW. Read my previous threads from previous years & months. The versions are just too many now that I'd be wasting too much time.

AreaFada2:


Which question?
You think I am jobless to go into those clearly fabricated Ibadan University press stuff & those fed to some foreigners by SW historians?

I just enlighten those capable of learning about history. I have taken time patiently in the past to answer questions raised by every "manliness" and Harry from SW. Read my previous threads from previous years & months. The versions are just too many now that I'd be wasting too much time.

The question is simple enough if you can read.
Origin of the first Benin monarchs. Shuooo!

AreaFada2:

I told you all have been answered in my write ups. What do you want again?

Until Izoduwa was requested by the senior chiefs of Benin led by Chief Oliha n'Ogele, there was nothing from Ife concerning Benin monarchy.

5 Benin chiefs including Oliha, Ero, Edohen initially to bring Izoduwa (corrupted to Oduduwa) back. But remembering how he only narrowly escaped ogiso palace intrigues in Benin, refused. But later sent his son Omonoyan (Corrupted to Oranmiyan) to go to Benin. Oranmiyan could not even enter Benin Proper. He was in a palace in a village (Egor) outside Benin. Chief Ogiamien and some other chiefs that had grown wings in the interegnum refused Oranmiyan entering or coming near the old Ogiso palace of Benin. Oranmiyan got tired of the complexity of Benin monarchical system, with many vexatious powerful lords. After his wife (a daughter of the Ogiegor/Duke of Egor) got pregnant, he left Benin in angst exclaiming "this is a land of vexation: Ile Ibinu bayi". Or something along that line.

The son born in his absence by his wife became Oba Eweka I. The grounds where used to play seed games (Akhue) in another nearby place at Useh is where The Oba takes his royal/title till today, right near the palace of a relative, the duke of the area. My relative hosted current Oba just last year to take his title there. Just days before official coronation led by Iyase who first went to Ife to bring Omonoyan in about 1170AD.
Yoruba often claim that because Yuroba was a palace language in Benin, then Yoruba colonised Benin. This shows ignorance of comparative royal history worldwide.
Obviously Izeduwa sent Yoruba courtiers with Omonoyan to make him comfortable in Benin. Among them was Chief Oloton, still today a keeper of royal ancestral shrine and things concerning "Alale". Though not the only one. Chief Isekhure (another royal relative) can and does same role.
When Prince Iginuwa was sent to Ewere (now Warri) as Ogiame (Lord of the Seas), he was sent with a full royal court of his own. The descendants still make up the senior aristocracy of Iwerre land (Warri Kingdom). It abounds everywhere.

As for Udo town in Benin, according to the Iyase of Udo, HRH P. E. Igbinidu, Udo town was founded around 600 AD. It became the second most important town in Benin Kingdom and had its moats & ramparts like Benin City. Still to be seen today. How did a town that even rivalled Benin City in development, with a strong defensive system fall to Ife? How many people lived in Ife then? And the distance.

In fact it was migrants from Udo (Emwanhan n'Udo) who founded Udo. The fleeing ruler of Udo, Iyase Osemwunghe that became Osemawe of Ondo, who fled during the conflict between Oba Esigie and his brother Aruanrhan, the Duke of Udo.
Benin prefers to be quite, honoring the Benin-British treaty to give up territories & ancient rights over vassal lands in return for retoration of Benin monarchy in 1914. Soon after that an educated political elite arose in Lagos/Ibadan/Abeokuta axis that had plenty of time to rewrite history. After all people believe what they read in books.

One Yoruba guy argued here on NL that the historiography of Benin-Yoruba stuff only began in the 1950s. A big lie because "A Short History of Benin" by Chief Dr. J . U Egharevba was already written in 1933. Anyhow, the British wicked plans to thwart efforts to build schools in Benin gave Yoruba plenty of time to use western education advantage to rewrite history. When Benin people now personally write their history Yoruba now begin citing papers written by themselves or those they served as consultants or contributors to foreigners to write. And they expect Benin people to meekly accept their falsehood.

When we do not accept it they claim dubious sophistication, they boast about their large Yoruba population, more educated people, etc.

Something must be wrong somewhere, because all this bunch up there is 't the answer to the question.
Except I am misunderstanding what the OP meant.

@olu, the british never fought dahomey, only the french did, and the french never fought Benin. Also the name Benin republic is a recent one. A french colony named dahomey borrowed the Edo name to rename itself after independence. Also it seems you have temporal problems, you keep confusing the current situation with the past. Now Benin is landlocked but before colonisation it wasn't. The current Benin city in Nigeria was only the capital of the Benin empire, the city residence of the Benin emperor: Omo n'Oba n'Edo.

YonkijiSappo:


Something must be wrong somewhere, because all this bunch up there is 't the answer to the question.
Except I am misunderstanding what the OP meant.

How is it possible to answer your question, none of us has a time machine !

YonkijiSappo:


Something must be wrong somewhere, because all this bunch up there is 't the answer to the question.
Except I am misunderstanding what the OP meant.

Besides, you guys are just cowardly ganging up on one guy like this. Is this what yoruba culture is about ?

history2900:

How is it possible to answer your question, none of us has a time machine !

Then just say you don't know.
The OP already provided plausible explanations with scholarly links... and unless you have something better to offer, you simply have no useful contribution to the thread.
It is very simple really.

Let us just agree on one thing, the oduduwa story is a fairytale created for political reasons (in order to create a large tribe: the yoruba). History has no records of yoruba in the 17th century.

history2900:
@olu, the british never fought dahomey, only the french did, and the french never fought Benin. Also the name Benin republic is a recent one. A french colony named dahomey borrowed the Edo name to rename itself after independence. Also it seems you have temporal problems, you keep confusing the current situation with the past. Now Benin is landlocked but before colonisation it wasn't. The current Benin city in Nigeria was only the capital of the Benin empire, the city residence of the Benin emperor: Omo n'Oba n'Edo.

Benin tribe has always been landlocked.
All the coastal lands were NEVER Benin lands. Try again.

history2900:
Let us just agree on one thing, the oduduwa story is a fairytale created for political reasons (in order to create a large tribe: the yoruba). History has no records of yoruba in the 17th century.

Same way the Ogiso stories are all Fables?
That is what this thread was about,.... and you have clearly admitted that you have no idea.

YonkijiSappo:


Then just say you don't know.
The OP already provided plausible explanations with scholarly links... and unless you have something better to offer, you simply have no useful contribution to the thread.
It is very simple really.

"scholarly links" or "scholarly charlatans" ? Yes I do have better to offer: precolonial maps !

YonkijiSappo:


Something must be wrong somewhere, because all this bunch up there is 't the answer to the question.
Except I am misunderstanding what the OP meant.

The only thing I can see wrong is your sense of entitlement.

It is obvious which side you want to believe from your attitude.

You expect the dude to answer questions like a student doing exam under you.

If you have questions, ask him directly.

I have learnt a lot from what he just wrote there. I will be checking out some things he wrote there.

history2900:
"sholarly links" or "scholarly charlatans" ? Yes I do have better to offer: precolonial maps !

Do the pre-colonial maps answer the OPs question?

YonkijiSappo:


Same way the Ogiso stories are all Fables?
That is what this thread was about,.... and you have clearly admitted that you have no idea.

None of us "have any idea" I am only honnest about it because I don't care about tribal chest-beating, I want the truth and only that.

YonkijiSappo:


Do the pre-colonial maps answer the OPs question?

In a way, yes !

marabout:

The only thing I can see wrong is your sense of entitlement.

It is obvious which side you want to believe from your attitude.

You expect the dude to answer questions like a student doing exam under you.

If you have questions, ask him directly.

I have learnt a lot from what he just wrote there. I will be checking out some things he wrote there.

siigh.
He never answered the OP/Thread topic, even though he knew what was actually being asked, and went on a tirade about Ekaladerhan the lost Benin prince.
If he doesn't have the thread answer or nothing to offer towards the topic sentence, what then is he posting about?

Posting unrelated stuff in a different thread is called Spamming.

history2900:
In a way, yes !

Ok, then.

history2900:
Let us just agree on one thing, the oduduwa story is a fairytale created for political reasons (in order to create a large tribe: the yoruba). History has no records of yoruba in the 17th century.

Do you even mind that one?

They are so ignorant about Nigeria outside their village & Lagos, despite claiming sophisticated & educated.

Do not be surprised that he knows nothing about Gwatto/Ughoton Port. Or even Gelegele.

YonkijiSappo:


Benin tribe has always been landlocked.
All the coastal lands were NEVER Benin lands. Try again.

Please, you are not talking to an illitrate, when you make a claim, prove it. I am going to disprove you very easilly, bellow is a map drawn in the 17th century by european explorers who visited our ancestors, the map clearly shows Benin as a country having access to the sea.
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b77595185/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

YonkijiSappo:


siigh.
He never answered the OP/Thread topic, even though he knew what was actually being asked, and went on a tirade about Ekaladerhan the lost Benin prince.
If he doesn't have the thread answer or nothing to offer towards the topic sentence, what then is he posting about?

Posting unrelated stuff in a different thread is called Spamming.

Well just because he did not tell you what you wanted to hear does not mean others do not find his posts useful.

You're not the ultimate authority on any of this.

I have followed his post here on history, culture, medicine, travelling, farming, etc. Maybe you haven't.

marabout:


Well just because he did not tell you what you wanted to hear does not mean others do not find his posts useful.

You're not the ultimate authority on any of this.

I have followed his post here on history, culture, medicine, travelling, farming, etc. Maybe you haven't.

He might be knowledgeable and all that, but ultimately, threads have a topic for a reason.
Yes we might like to learn other things, but what is the point of digressing from the thread.
Is all that really necessary?

history2900:
Let us just agree on one thing, the oduduwa story is a fairytale created for political reasons (in order to create a large tribe: the yoruba). History has no records of yoruba in the 17th century.

Were the Yorubas of Dahomey also taught the fairytale?
Under what political umbrella were they taught the fairytale?
Did they all meet in Ibadan to discuss how they will start teaching their children the same fairytales as well?

YonkijiSappo:


He might be knowledgeable and all that, but ultimately, threads have a topic for a reason.
Yes we might like to learn other things, but what is the point of digressing from the thread.
Is all that really necessary?

Look stop being a hypocrit, the guy is only correcting some lies being posted on here. It is funny that you have nothing to say to the liars but you attack the guy correcting the liars.

history2900:

Please, you are not talking to an illitrate, when you make a claim, prove it. I am going to disprove you very easilly, bellow is a map draw in the 17th century by european explorers who visited our ancestors, the map clearly shows Benin as a country having access to the sea.
http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b77595185/f1.item.r=Benin.zoom

Ok, so are you trying to tell me that Because that area of the map was labelled "Benin" by early european explorers in an age of poor cartographic skills, it means the only tribe that existed then was Benin?

What of the area also labelled Biafra? is that also a Biafra tribe there?
These are simply popular names which Europeans designated to certain regions of Africa. It is similar to how all of Interior West Africa was called "Sudan"... It does not make the places Sudanese land.