history2900:
Look stop being a hypocrit, the guy is only correcting some lies being posted on here. It is funny that you have nothing to say to the liars but you attack the guy correcting the liars.

Wait.. what?
The guy was the one coming to your defence and not the other way round.
I never even attacked him on anything , since he is only here to defend you.

Another Areafada v. Yoruba people thread.

The guy sef does not give up.

I admire his passion. He says it not minding how many attackers.
The guy spews info like encyclopaedia.

Some obviously won't like that.

YonkijiSappo:


Were the Yorubas of Dahomey also taught the fairytale?
Under what political umbrella were they taught the fairytale?
Did they all meet in Ibadan to discuss how they will start teaching their children the same fairytales as well?

I really don't understand your statement. Please try and sound more educated. For your information, the europeans who traded a lot with our ancestors also came with explorers who wrote notes and drew maps, I suggest we have a fact based debate and use those as proof. Before the creation of nigeria nobody had written anything about oduduwa, and even after the creation of nigeria, it took a politician like awolowo (who had a lot of vested interests) to write the fairytale.

history2900:
I really don't understand your statement. Please try and sound more educated. For your information, the europeans who traded a lot with our ancestors also came with explorers who wrote notes and drew maps, I suggest we have a fact based debate and use those as proof. Before the creation of nigeria nobody had written anything about oduduwa, and even after the creation of nigeria, it took a politician like awolowo (who had a lot of vested interests) to write the fairytale.

You said a large Yoruba tribe was "created" by Yoruba political leaders using the Oduduwa story, and i am asking you how the Yorubas far beyond the shores of Nigeria or the political influence of early Nigerian leaders got the story in their old folklores as well. For example the founders of the towns of Ketu and Dassa Zoume are sons of Oduduwa.
You will have to explain that.

Infact, Oduduwa exists in the caribbean countries- taken there by Yoruba speaking people in an age when there was nothing called Political agenda.
You clearly wish Yorubas are a myth, but hey! we are here to stay and expand.

YonkijiSappo:


Ok, so are you trying to tell me that Because that area of the map was labelled "Benin" by early european explorers in an age of poor cartographic skills, it means the only tribe that existed then was Benin?

What of the area also labelled Biafra? is that also a Biafra tribe there?
These are simply popular names which Europeans designated to certain regions of Africa. It is similar to how all of Interior West Africa was called "Sudan"... It does not make the places Sudanese land.

Typical yoruba response to hard evidence. Look about Biafra, yes there was a precolonial country named biafra. Look man you are not being logical and that is frustrating my discussion with you. It feels like nothing short of me going back in time with a camera in my hands would convince you. The europeans were very good at making precised maps which they used to better trade and to prepare conquests. the map is accurate, it is a historical document.

history2900:

Besides, you guys are just cowardly ganging up on one guy like this. Is this what yoruba culture is about ?

Hell,you are wrong bro! I have friends of Edo origin and matrilineal lineage's cousins as well , who are from BINI town . I wouldn't have gone against areafada2 if not for his confrontation like the BINI MONARCH did. The guy was one that made me to digress because he attacked the OP. And the school of thought I belong is that you don't feel superior over a debatable issue ,which remain contentious. My dear, if you by chance come across my patrilineal family, they are either light skin or brownish black. Our hair texture is not as thick as core black men despite over two thousand of years ago existence. My own Father was extremely light skin when he was young and a Pointed kind of nose. This is the reason I mock many guys that claim they know Yoruba identity by tribal MARKS.How on earth would any one think Odua came from EDO? Lastly ODUA Descendants naturally don't have tribal marks at ILE IFE. Despite the fact that OYO began to use it. You people have little knowledge about Yoruba history. It is more than you think it to be.

history2900:
Typical yoruba response to hard evidence. Look about Biafra, yes there was a precolonial country named biafra. Look man you are not being logical and that is frustrating my discussion with you. It feels like nothing short of me going back in time with a camera in my hands would convince you. The europeans were very good at making precised maps which they used to better trade and to prepare conquests. the map is accurate, it is a historical document.

LOL
there was no precolonial country called Biafra...Lmao
There was a geographical region of Africa referred to as Biafra or the Biafran coast and hinterland, just like there was a precolonial region of Africa referred to as Upper and Lower Guinea, Mosquito coast, Terranova etc.
You are clearly grasping at straws to justify the "Benin" written on the map.

Also, stop with the Ad-hominem attacks with statements like "Typical Yoruba response"... it will take the thread nowhere.

YonkijiSappo:


You said a large Yoruba tribe was "created" by Yoruba political leaders using the Oduduwa story, and i am asking you how the Yorubas far beyond the shores of Nigeria or the political influence of early Nigerian leaders got the story in their old folklores as well. For example the founders of the towns of Ketu and Dassa Zoume are sons of Oduduwa.
You will have to explain that.

Infact, Oduduwa exists in the caribbean countries- taken there by Yoruba speaking people in an age when there was nothing called Political agenda.
You clearly wish Yorubas are a myth, but hey! we are here to stay and expand.

I think you are confusing religion with history and that shows a pattern. The Oduduwa whom you are talking about is a character in an ancient religion all the rest is pure political fabrication, please ask educated questions. The guys in Benin republic also have access to Awolowo's story, just as much as you. Information goes beyond borders, and people love these types of stories.

history2900:
I think you are confusing religion with history and that shows a pattern. The Oduduwa whom you are talking about is a character in an ancient religion all the rest is pure political fabrication, please ask educated questions. The guys in Benin republic also have access to Awolowo's story, just as much as you. Information goes beyond borders, and people love these types of stories.

I am glad you have realised your folly, that Oduduwa story isn't just a fabrication - but a living legend that exists amongst all original Yoruba speaking groups of today.
lol, just try and answer the thread question ok. Otherwise... I am more inclined to go with the OP.

YonkijiSappo:


LOL
there was no precolonial country called Biafra...Lmao
There was a geographical region of Africa referred to as Biafra or the Biafran coast and hinterland, just like there was a precolonial region of Africa referred to as Upper and Lower Guinea, Mosquito coast, Terranova etc.
You are clearly grasping at straws to justify the "Benin" written on the map.

Also, stop with the Ad-hominem attacks with statements like "Typical Yoruba response"... it will take the thread nowhere.

Please when you make statements, just provide proof. The map is clear evidence of the existence of the countries named Biafra and Benin. You live in a bubble if you think that regions and coasts were just randomly named by europeans. Jesus, could you be logical a little bit ? How can one have a discussion with you ?

history2900:
Typical yoruba response to hard evidence. Look about Biafra, yes there was a precolonial country named biafra. Look man you are not being logical and that is frustrating my discussion with you. It feels like nothing short of me going back in time with a camera in my hands would convince you. The europeans were very good at making precised maps which they used to better trade and to prepare conquests. the map is accurate, it is a historical document.

Lol.

Stop wasting your time. They will never accept any hard evidence but expect you to believe theirs.

At that point, without much colonial ambition yet, just trade interest, Europeans were quite precise & objective in mapping out & describing peoples in Africa.

history2900:

Please when you make statements, just provide proof. The map is clear evidence of the existence of the countries named Biafra and Benin. You live in a bubble if you think that regions and coasts were just randomly named by europeans. Jesus, could you be logical a little bit ? How can one have a discussion with you ?

For the upteenth time, those were not countries but precolonial place name locations based on their knowledge of areas near the African coast.
So which country is the Slave coast today?

history2900:

Besides, you guys are just cowardly ganging up on one guy like this. Is this what yoruba culture is about ?

That is what they are good at. Ganging up & conspiracy.

If they cannot silence that Areafada2 guy here, they will gang up and give him a long ban. This is their forum you know.

YonkijiSappo:


I am glad you have realised your folly, that Oduduwa story isn't just a fabrication - but a living legend that exists amongst all original Yoruba speaking groups of today.
lol, just try and answer the thread question ok. Otherwise... I am more inclined to go with the OP.

Do you actually understand my written words ? I never said what you are claiming. Lookfirst of all, I don't know how many tribes had oduduwa as a god in their own religion. And again, that oduduwa has nothing to do with the story you are propagating.

marabout:


That is what they are good at. Ganging up & conspiracy.

If they cannot silent that Areafada2 guy here, they will gang up and give him a long ban. This is their forum you know.

You are clearly the one conspiring here.
I mean, look at the kind of things u are saying.
Kwantinuu,

history2900:

Do you actually understand my written words ? I never said what you are claiming. Lookfirst of all, I don't know how many tribes had oduduwa as a god in their own religion. And again, that oduduwa has nothing to do with the story you are propagating.

Ok I have heard you.
Leave us with our Oduduwa and our religion, afterall, it isnt YOUR religion, or is it?
Now, back to the thread topic.

YonkijiSappo:


For the upteenth time, those were not countries but precolonial place name locations based on their knowledge of areas near the African coast.
So which country is the Slave coast today?

Look stop trying to act as a lawyer who is defending a story and who would twist every information to convince people of his story. Did you notice that "the slave coast" is an english name ? Is Benin an english name ? Is Biafra an english name ?

Eeehya! Marabout and history2900 dashing themselves likes and quoting one another.

How romantic....

YonkijiSappo:


For the upteenth time, those were not countries but precolonial place name locations based on their knowledge of areas near the African coast.
So which country is the Slave coast today?

Also if you can spot a precolonial map in which a land is named "slave coast" then please show.

history2900:
Look stop trying to act as a lawyer who is defending a story and who would twist every information to convince people of his story. Did you notice that "the slave coast" is an english name ? Is Benin an english name ? Is Biafra an english name ?

Clearly not knowledgeable.
The original name of biafra is actually from portuguese Biafarés by the way. same as Benin- another Portuguese rendition.
Also, Ivory coast was a European name and is a country today.

There was a precolonial region of Africa called "Jollof" and it was never a country.

http://stock-images.antiqueprints.com/images/sm0106-Africa(e851)-l.jpg

Like i said earlier, precolonial maps were very much based on popular names or areas of first contact. Look at the above map, Benin as a region isn't even West Africa, while the location of Benin as a town, is clearly accurate.

history2900:
Also if you can spot a precolonial map in which a land is named "slave coast" then please show.

They are too plenty.

In Paris, I used to go to the Bibliothèque nationale de France everyday and one day I passed in front of a map which was made in the 15th century by european explorers, in that map I saw Benin, the ancient country, that is the momment I started digging up some truth by analyzing these maps. It is very appalling to say the least that some people don't know the meaning of history and just keep creating and modifying theirs. Thanks to God, the explorers made documents which are available to all today. I have many other pre-colonial maps to share, they are digitalized on the gallica website.

Look, what don't you understand in "prove your claims". Look Biafra or Biafares or Biafara is not a portuguese word. Obviously when the map was being made, those making the map wrote the name of the country and used their written language to do so ! Why can't you just be logical ! Why are you in such a drivel to discredit these pre-colonial maps ? Is it because they prove you to be a liar ? Or are you more knowledgeable than people who actually visited our ancestors and recorded what they saw ? Once again, Benin is an edo name and the map shows it as a large country, stop peddling lies ! And once agin, Benin city is the capital of Benin empire. Stop confusing the city with the empire !

YonkijiSappo:


Clearly not knowledgeable.
The original name of biafra is actually from portuguese Biafarés by the way. same as Benin- another Portuguese rendition.
Also, Ivory coast was a European name and is a country today.

There was a precolonial region of Africa called "Jollof" and it was never a country.

http://stock-images.antiqueprints.com/images/sm0106-Africa(e851)-l.jpg

Like i said earlier, precolonial maps were very much based on popular names or areas of first contact. Look at the above map, Benin as a region isn't even West Africa, while the location of Benin as a town, is clearly accurate.

YonkijiSappo:


They are too plenty.

Yet you are unable to post even one !

history2900:
I think you are confusing religion with history and that shows a pattern. The Oduduwa whom you are talking about is a character in an ancient religion all the rest is pure political fabrication, please ask educated questions. The guys in Benin republic also have access to Awolowo's story, just as much as you. Information goes beyond borders, and people love these types of stories.

Sharp logic there sir.

What I understood he said is this: that Awolowo created a sense of Yoruba ethnic nationality. To be political relevant against the Northern block. I have read several of his posts from years ago.

Look at how the North opposed Pa Awo even campaigning in the North properly. In 1964/65 Action Group won only 21 seats out of 312 seats in national parliament and lost 52 seats. Coming in 4th position or just 8.6% of the vote. With Awo in Prison. Awo always saw how tribalism will dominate Nigerian politics & sought to prepare for it. Though SLA & Fani Power didn't quite get his drift early enough. Or pretended not to. Until both had to turn to tribalism campaign in 1964/65 too.

history2900:
Yet you are unable to post even one !

That link I posted already has slave coast in it if you ook well.
But here you go... since you asked.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQq_eP29o5aOspn8O84xg0SezjP8yFyVI9sgjPrhn6TAOoE3NzL

YonkijiSappo:


You are clearly the one conspiring here.
I mean, look at the kind of things u are saying.
Kwantinuu,

but is it not true?

We have been here for years now & know how things roll here. Just wait and see.

YonkijiSappo:


That link I posted already has slave coast in it if you ook well.
But here you go... since you asked.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQq_eP29o5aOspn8O84xg0SezjP8yFyVI9sgjPrhn6TAOoE3NzL

Do you understand english ? Look first of all this your link doesn't work and second of all I am asking for a LAND named slave coast on a precolonial map, not a coast !

marabout:

but is it not true?

We have been here for years now & know how things roll here. Just wait and see.

Nairaland is like one of the fairest online Nigerian forum I have ever seen.
Infact most of the time, the Yorubas are the ones at the recievng end of attacks here and nothing is usally being done to curb such attacks.
But hey! you can see what you want to see.

history2900:
Let us just agree on one thing, the oduduwa story is a fairytale created for political reasons (in order to create a large tribe: the yoruba). History has no records of yoruba in the 17th century.

Chai! Abeg have pitty bikonu.

Such an uppercut is wicked.

Even if Athony Joshua is your brother sef, still show some mercy.

history2900:

Do you understand english ? Look first of all this your link doesn't work and second of all I am asking for a LAND named slave coast on a precolonial map, not a coast !

lol ... Okaay?



What excuses have you cooked up this time?

YonkijiSappo:


Nairaland is like one of the fairest online Nigerian forum I have ever seen.
Infact most of the time, the Yorubas are the ones at the recievng end of attacks here and nothing is usally being done to curb such attacks.
But hey! you can see what you want to see.

lol ... Okaay?



What excuses have you cooked up this time?

Dude, you do understand that the guys who made that map are english, right ? Do you actually think that they were naming a land, slave coast ? Or was it a coast which they were talking about ? I can see why you were first reluctant to show that map, it clearly shows Benin as a large kingdom and not an area as you are claiming. It it shows Benin the kingdom and Benin the capital of the kingdom. Edo state today is just the ancient capital. The map also shows that what you guys call yorubaland is actually part of the Benin empire. My question about a land named "slave coast" was more of a rhetorical one ! Obvioulsy slave coast was referring to a coast, not a land ! And once again you can see that these maps were made for trade purposes, why identify a slave coast on a map ? So that you know where to go if you want to buy slaves !