I personally hate the "atheist" label, even though I am one. The problem is that atheism has been bastardized so much that the "atheist" label means many things.

An atheist could be someone who is agnostic or someone who has 100% disbelief in the existence of God.

Atheism is also a broad word- there are atheists who claim to be witches, some who believe in some ancestral voodoo doodoo. Then there are Stalin and Mao (kingEbukasblog's favourite atheists).

Atheism has also been demonised. Christians and muslims call atheists "God-haters", "Hatetheist" "Anti-religious sodomites". etc


Humanism is a more defined term. You cannot be a racist, homophobe, rapi.st etc and be a humanist. You cannot be an islamophobe or a hater of christians and be a humanists.

Humanists believe in freedom of religion but they hold that government must be secular and treat all beliefs/disbeliefs equally.



Humanism believes in bettering the planet. It believes in rationality. etc.

Why are you not a humanist?



cc Hahn, kingebukasblog, sonoflucifer, hopefullandlord, seun, felixomor, akintom, plaetton, deepsight, johnydon22, cloudgoddess, lepasharon etc

I for one made my Humanism clear in my profile

Humanism has no religious bearing. A christian can also be a Humanist.

onyenze123:
Humanism has no religious bearing. A christian can also be a Humanist.

Exactly. Even a muslim or any other theist for that matter

I do not believe in any god so I am an atheist. Who cares?

I am a humanist too

But the problem is many theist do not think it is possible to be humanist and an atheist even though 99% of the perpetrators of the crimes on FP are theists

Go figure

@Born2freak,

Did you hear about the "Atheist/Agnostic/Deist/ Meet Up" that took place at UNILAG about 2 years ago? Where Seun Kuti(Atheist) was a guest of honour? It was simply branded as "THE LAGOS HUMANIST ASSEMBLY"!!! And every single atheist who came for that Meet Up, when asked if they want to become members of the HUMANIST ASSEMBLY, all of them replied in the affirmative!!! They all said yes!!!

I am an atheist humanist.

Humanism feels like a religion. It has dogmas that every 'Humanist' must subscribe to. I agree with most of their dogmas, but: count me out!

Seun:
Humanism feels like a religion. It has dogmas that every 'Humanist' must subscribe to. I agree with most of their dogmas, but: count me out!

Wrong!

I see that christians have done a number on you. They have made you feel that everything is religion.

No. Humanism is a philosophy or organisation

It is just like being a member of ICAN, ACCA or a rotary club. They all have their guiding principles or constitution.

Not every organised group is a religious group.

onyenze123:
Humanism has no religious bearing. A christian can also be a Humanist.

I quite agree to some extent but for that to be possible such a person must be a radically liberal Christian since the tenets of Humanism as school of thought is consonant with the fundamental values of Christianity or Islam or even most conventional religion.

let me add a definition to this 'an outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems.'

you see from this definition, a humanist derives moral basis sorely from a human value and not the divine, the divine (God, God(s) ) are unneeded and mostly irrelevant in humanism as a school of thought..

So i am sure it is quite paradoxical for a christian to be a humanist since it eliminates the relevance of God(s) which is the fundamental value of christianity from the moral, social outlook of man.

Born2Freak:
No. Humanism is a philosophy or organisation
It is just like being a member of ICAN, ACCA or a rotary club. They all have their guiding principles or constitution.
Not every organised group is a religious group.

You are right, but having been liberated from the burden of religion, I just don't want to join any group that tries to tell me how to live my life.

The problem religious people have with atheists is our lack of belief in God. Calling ourselves Humanists won't change anything. This youtube video features a young man who thinks that Humanism is "entirely demonic" and "the cancer of thanksgiving" and "the devil's PR", "a first class ticket to the sea of wantonness and debauchery of every form". It's not what we call ourselves that's their problem. It's what we don't believe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j8jQkSydeo

Seun:
Humanism feels like a religion. It has dogmas that every 'Humanist' must subscribe to. I agree with most of their dogmas, but: count me out!

it is not actually just a philosophical stance on humanity and it's moral outlook. . . For you to regard yourself one, you must first have subscribe to the tenets of it's philosophical stance.

Humanism is as much a religion as stoicism can be referred to as a religion which is in fact wrong

Seun:

You are right, but having been liberated from the burden of religion, I just don't want to join any group that tries to tell me how to live my life.

The problem religious people have with atheists is our lack of belief in God. Calling ourselves Humanists won't change anything. This youtube video features a young man who thinks that Humanism is "entirely demonic" and "the cancer of thanksgiving" and "the devil's PR", "a first class ticket to the sea of wantonness and debauchery of every form". It's not what we call ourselves that's their problem. It's what we don't believe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j8jQkSydeo

Humanism doesn't teĺl you how to live your life.

It only says that to be a humanist, one should use rationality to form your own morality and don't discriminate

johnydon22:
I quite agree to some extent but for that to be possible such a person must be a radically liberal Christian since the tenets of Humanism as school of thought is consonant with the fundamental values of Christianity or Islam or even most conventional religion.

let me add a definition to this 'an outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems.'

you see from this definition, a humanist derives moral basis sorely from a human value and not the divine, the divine (God, God(s) ) are unneeded and mostly irrelevant in humanism as a school of thought..

So i am sure it is quite paradoxical for a christian to be a humanist since it eliminates the relevance of God(s) which is the fundamental value of christianity from the moral, social outlook of man.

You have a point

Seun:
Humanism feels like a religion. It has dogmas that every 'Humanist' must subscribe to. I agree with most of their dogmas, but: count me out!

Kwakwakwakwakwakwakwakwa

Semantics....

By the time you get to know 'humanism' is also bastardised, what would you now call yourself?

You'll keep changing it till you hear everyone say that's the right one?

It doesn't change the fact you're an atheist. Does it? Or you're confused where you belong?

I consider myself more of a Nihilist than an Atheist so I despise the whole idea of humanism.

Seun:
Humanism feels like a religion. It has dogmas that every 'Humanist' must subscribe to. I agree with most of their dogmas, but: count me out!

This your own strong oo

I saw this on a blog and decided to share it here it talks about the different stages of Atheism............

Level 1 – Divinity

Do you believe in god(s)? Forget the Dawkins scale, it’s a simple question, if you can’t answer it “no” then you’re not an atheist, and you don’t need to go any further on this list. If you think there might be god(s), or haven’t made up your mind, then you can call yourself something other than an atheist. Gods are not necessarily all powerful, but they are supernatural beings with independent or self-determined causation and determinism – meaning that they can make their own decisions, and are not required to act in any certain way, nor can they be controlled by humans. Humans can appeal to them, worship them, ignore them, placate them, or trade with them giving gifts or offerings in exchange for material or spiritual benefits. They can be all powerful, or even just mildly more potent than humans in certain things. Also, not all of them are immortal.

Level 2 – Spirituality

Do you believe in angels, human spirits, souls, ghosts, poltergeists, jinn, nature spirits, demons, possession, astral projections, etc.? Basically, this level covers everything that exists in what is usually called the supernatural, which is simply anything not proven to exist. Frankly, if you can’t put it in a zoo, but you still believe it exists, then you don’t make it to this level. It never fails to surprise me how many atheists I meet who believe in ghosts, souls, and other oddities. It’s like Arthur Conan Doyle writing about the clear thinking Sherlock Holmes, while at the same time being immersed in spiritualism and a belief in fairies. These things are no different than gods, except that people usually ascribe a natural causation for them. I heard someone once claiming that they were spawned by the Earth’s natural background radiation level, or even cosmic rays. A claim to being part of our normal world, and evolving within it, but being ephemeral or unknowable, somehow makes it better? How many times have I heard that souls and ghosts are a natural result of our human consciousness created by our brains? Look, if it stores information, it has to be a form of the physical construct, unless all our physics is rubbish, so it could be found – but it hasn’t been, and won’t be until the Standard Model has been overthrown.

Level 3 - Superstition

Superstition covers all manner of unconscious but still supernatural actions and reactions, like lucky charms (such as Buddha charms, rabbit feet, or Japanese Omamori), unlucky numbers (like 13 in the Christian West, or in cultures influenced by China), unlucky activities (walking under a ladder or breaking a mirror in the West), lucky activities (like crawling through a temple pillar hole, kissing the Blarney stone, or crawling under a temple floor), unlucky occurrences (like having a black cat cross your path), unlucky colors (wearing funeral white in the East, or the wrong color on certain days in Thailand – which is why so many people drive silver, white or black cars to avoid being in a wrong color car on the wrong day), etc. All these things could be tested and statistically proven to be no more or no worse than any other occurrence. They are considered to be unconscious agents of supernatural impact, delivering “luck” or “misfortune” according to their nature. Sometimes, the impact can be mitigated, misdirected, or amplified, depending on the action of the affected party.

Some people would put things like homeopathy, astrology, acupuncture, traditional medicines, osteopathy, chiropractors, fortune telling, and tarot reading all into this category as well. (Faith healing and exorcism are in Level 1 or 2, as that relies on the intervention of a third party supernatural being to affect the cure.) Now, all the foregoing have some placebo level of success, and there are a few cases where the treatment is indeed marginally beneficial towards the ailment. But for all their broad claims, they are unsubstantiated for the most part and any confidence in their efficacy is no different than the blind faith in a charm, talisman, or fortune teller.

Level 4 - Quantum-something

Quantum mechanics is somewhat mind-bending in its implications, as they are so far afield from our conscious understanding of our world. But quantum mechanics is fundamentally a part of physics derived from a series of core mathematical formulas. It’s not metaphysics, nor is it in any way philosophical. There are a number of ways in which certain experimental results can be “explained” or interpreted in language other than the language of mathematics, but the “true” explanation is always the mathematical one.

Most people who ascribe extra-natural events to this source usually do so on a totally different basis than how physics is actually practiced. Yes, there are theoreticians who ponder the existence of multiple universes or realities which “collapse” into the current reality once a triggering “observation” has occurred, but these do not manifest themselves on any level that a human being unaided by technology could ever encounter. Over the years, I’ve seen virtually everything ascribed to some utterly unsupported “quantum” effect, like pyramid power, enhanced cognitive skills, influences on future events, personal auras, enhancing “luck” of some form or another (although it’s usually couched in the language of probabilities), and so forth. Some of them sound like a fantasy world created by Roger Zelazny, known as the Amber Chronicles, where certain beings can collapse different states of potentiality into “reality”.

Often, these complex concepts from physics are mixed with notions of consciousness. The only thing worse than mischaracterizing one field of science is to combine it with another mischaracterized area, in say biology or psychiatry (which some people might partially put into Level Three with good reason, since there is still no physical test for almost all psychiatric conditions diagnosed by physicians). Deepak Chopra’s works, which frankly I’ve found unreadable, but which are wildly popular, fall squarely into this category of pretentious quasi-science quackery.

There are some interesting books out there by reputable physicists which do raise some of these issues, but none of them is in the form of a self-help book. There are no formulas for how to collapse a meaningful waveform (that was what Schrodinger’s famous cat6 was all about) in real life. And the toxic mix of physics and metaphysics is about as useful as contemplating the number of angels who can dance on the head of a pin. When someone comes up with a mathematical formula which you can use to change your circumstances, get a good night’s sleep, or change your mental attitude, then it’s real science – but not before.

Level 5 - The Force

This is the most frustrating one to encounter. It’s the belief in “something” or in Spinoza’s “nature” god. Perhaps it’s gained popularity from the “Star Wars” series, and people just like the idea of all life being connected, in a sort of “feel-good-about-nature” and “have-wild-sex-with-the-blue-sexy-natives” “Avatar” (the movie) sense. (Just on a personal note, I really hate movies where lower tech societies defeat high tech ones – maybe it makes people feel good at some level, but then so does Santa Claus.)

In any event, it’s still a belief in something utterly unsubstantiated, no matter how “at one” you feel with life and the universe when you’re feeding the squirrels in the park. No, it’s not an anthropomorphic or personified “god”, and yes it’s sort of like the Hindu concept of Brahman, or Nirvana in some Buddhist doctrines, but that is not exactly an endorsement. Having compassion for all other life is indeed laudable, but you don’t need to go the extra step to justify this conviction by imbibing some cosmic intoxicant. And no, there is no “quantum consciousness” (see Level 4 above).

Level 6 – None of the Above

You’re totally free of any supernatural or unquantifiable beliefs about causation in your personal universe. Your morality is consistent with your own personal philosophy, and you don’t carry good luck charms, except for sentimental value. Congratulations.

So, where do you stand on the Atheist scale? No gods, but ghosts? No soul but good old Mother Nature? Being an atheist is just one step on the road to adopting a questioning attitude towards life. For a great many of the questions that humans crave answers for, there are no objective answers. Sometimes you have to be brave enough to walk in the darkness, knowing that you don’t know what’s there, as opposed to walking in with your imaginary friend or lucky talisman.

Icosahedron:
I consider myself more of a Nihilist than an Atheist so I despise the whole idea of humanism.

Jesus!

Born2Freak:
I personally hate the "atheist" label, even though I am one. The problem is that atheism has been bastardized so much that the "atheist" label means many things.

An atheist could be someone who is agnostic or someone who has 100% disbelief in the existence of God.

Atheism is also a broad word- there are atheists who claim to be witches, some who believe in some ancestral voodoo doodoo. Then there are Stalin and Mao (kingEbukasblog's favourite atheists).

Atheism has also been demonised. Christians and muslims call atheists "God-haters", "Hatetheist" "Anti-religious sodomites". etc


Humanism is a more defined term. You cannot be a racist, homophobe, rapi.st etc and be a humanist. You cannot be an islamophobe or a hater of christians and be a humanists.

Humanists believe in freedom of religion but they hold that government must be secular and treat all beliefs/disbeliefs equally.



Humanism believes in bettering the planet. It believes in rationality. etc.

Why are you not a humanist?



cc Hahn, kingebukasblog, sonoflucifer, hopefullandlord, seun, felixomor, akintom, plaetton, deepsight, johnydon22, cloudgoddess, lepasharon etc

From my username, I am a humanist. It seems we are few on nairaland

A world where everybody's name is his label would make perfect sense. A world where Johnydon would have his own personal tag called Johnydonism, Hahn is Hahnism, Wilgreasism, Otemism, Hopefullandlordism, Dalamanity, Realmindism, etc.

Such world would be full of brain users who study their own personal self and try to help the world in their own personal way. And the rules would just be 'use your own brain' and 'do good to humanity'.

I think free-thinking is close to this utopia of my dream.

OtemAtum:
A world where everybody's name is his label would make perfect sense. A world where Johnydon would have his own personal tag called Johnydonism, Hahn is Hahnism, Wilgreasism, Otemism, Hopefullandlordism, Dalamanity, Realmindism, etc.

Such world would be full of brain users who study their own personal self and try to help the world in their own personal way. And the rules would just be 'use your own brain' and 'do good to humanity'.

I think free-thinking is close to this utopia of my dream.

give this guy whatever he wants to eat and send the bill to me

this post makes a truckload of sense

Born2Freak:
I personally hate the "atheist" label, even though I am one. The problem is that atheism has been bastardized so much that the "atheist" label means many things.

An atheist could be someone who is agnostic or someone who has 100% disbelief in the existence of God.

Atheism is also a broad word- there are atheists who claim to be witches, some who believe in some ancestral voodoo doodoo. Then there are Stalin and Mao (kingEbukasblog's favourite atheists).

Atheism has also been demonised. Christians and muslims call atheists "God-haters", "Hatetheist" "Anti-religious sodomites". etc


Humanism is a more defined term. You cannot be a racist, homophobe, rapi.st etc and be a humanist. You cannot be an islamophobe or a hater of christians and be a humanists.

Humanists believe in freedom of religion but they hold that government must be secular and treat all beliefs/disbeliefs equally.



Humanism believes in bettering the planet. It believes in rationality. etc.

Why are you not a humanist?



cc Hahn, kingebukasblog, sonoflucifer, hopefullandlord, seun, felixomor, akintom, plaetton, deepsight, johnydon22, cloudgoddess, lepasharon etc

You don't believe in God so how do you define your existence

And how do u discover your purpose

hahn:


Exactly. Even a muslim or any other theist for that matter

I do not believe in any god so I am an atheist. Who cares?

I am a humanist too

But the problem is many theist do not think it is possible to be humanist and an atheist even though 99% of the perpetrators of the crimes on FP are theists

Go figure

Your accusation is based on what?
Is such an accusation what humanists do, label people and categories them based on our opinions?

Seun:
Humanism feels like a religion. It has dogmas that every 'Humanist' must subscribe to. I agree with most of their dogmas, but: count me out!

Your seeking freedom from religious structures and constriction because of their regulations.
I don't like religion but imagine a world where evil isn't restricted, where actions are not governed.

Deicide:
I saw this on a blog and decided to share it here it talks about the different stages of Atheism............

Level 1 – Divinity

Do you believe in god(s)? Forget the Dawkins scale, it’s a simple question, if you can’t answer it “no” then you’re not an atheist, and you don’t need to go any further on this list. If you think there might be god(s), or haven’t made up your mind, then you can call yourself something other than an atheist. Gods are not necessarily all powerful, but they are supernatural beings with independent or self-determined causation and determinism – meaning that they can make their own decisions, and are not required to act in any certain way, nor can they be controlled by humans. Humans can appeal to them, worship them, ignore them, placate them, or trade with them giving gifts or offerings in exchange for material or spiritual benefits. They can be all powerful, or even just mildly more potent than humans in certain things. Also, not all of them are immortal.

Level 2 – Spirituality

Do you believe in angels, human spirits, souls, ghosts, poltergeists, jinn, nature spirits, demons, possession, astral projections, etc.? Basically, this level covers everything that exists in what is usually called the supernatural, which is simply anything not proven to exist. Frankly, if you can’t put it in a zoo, but you still believe it exists, then you don’t make it to this level. It never fails to surprise me how many atheists I meet who believe in ghosts, souls, and other oddities. It’s like Arthur Conan Doyle writing about the clear thinking Sherlock Holmes, while at the same time being immersed in spiritualism and a belief in fairies. These things are no different than gods, except that people usually ascribe a natural causation for them. I heard someone once claiming that they were spawned by the Earth’s natural background radiation level, or even cosmic rays. A claim to being part of our normal world, and evolving within it, but being ephemeral or unknowable, somehow makes it better? How many times have I heard that souls and ghosts are a natural result of our human consciousness created by our brains? Look, if it stores information, it has to be a form of the physical construct, unless all our physics is rubbish, so it could be found – but it hasn’t been, and won’t be until the Standard Model has been overthrown.

Level 3 - Superstition

Superstition covers all manner of unconscious but still supernatural actions and reactions, like lucky charms (such as Buddha charms, rabbit feet, or Japanese Omamori), unlucky numbers (like 13 in the Christian West, or in cultures influenced by China), unlucky activities (walking under a ladder or breaking a mirror in the West), lucky activities (like crawling through a temple pillar hole, kissing the Blarney stone, or crawling under a temple floor), unlucky occurrences (like having a black cat cross your path), unlucky colors (wearing funeral white in the East, or the wrong color on certain days in Thailand – which is why so many people drive silver, white or black cars to avoid being in a wrong color car on the wrong day), etc. All these things could be tested and statistically proven to be no more or no worse than any other occurrence. They are considered to be unconscious agents of supernatural impact, delivering “luck” or “misfortune” according to their nature. Sometimes, the impact can be mitigated, misdirected, or amplified, depending on the action of the affected party.

Some people would put things like homeopathy, astrology, acupuncture, traditional medicines, osteopathy, chiropractors, fortune telling, and tarot reading all into this category as well. (Faith healing and exorcism are in Level 1 or 2, as that relies on the intervention of a third party supernatural being to affect the cure.) Now, all the foregoing have some placebo level of success, and there are a few cases where the treatment is indeed marginally beneficial towards the ailment. But for all their broad claims, they are unsubstantiated for the most part and any confidence in their efficacy is no different than the blind faith in a charm, talisman, or fortune teller.

Level 4 - Quantum-something

Quantum mechanics is somewhat mind-bending in its implications, as they are so far afield from our conscious understanding of our world. But quantum mechanics is fundamentally a part of physics derived from a series of core mathematical formulas. It’s not metaphysics, nor is it in any way philosophical. There are a number of ways in which certain experimental results can be “explained” or interpreted in language other than the language of mathematics, but the “true” explanation is always the mathematical one.

Most people who ascribe extra-natural events to this source usually do so on a totally different basis than how physics is actually practiced. Yes, there are theoreticians who ponder the existence of multiple universes or realities which “collapse” into the current reality once a triggering “observation” has occurred, but these do not manifest themselves on any level that a human being unaided by technology could ever encounter. Over the years, I’ve seen virtually everything ascribed to some utterly unsupported “quantum” effect, like pyramid power, enhanced cognitive skills, influences on future events, personal auras, enhancing “luck” of some form or another (although it’s usually couched in the language of probabilities), and so forth. Some of them sound like a fantasy world created by Roger Zelazny, known as the Amber Chronicles, where certain beings can collapse different states of potentiality into “reality”.

Often, these complex concepts from physics are mixed with notions of consciousness. The only thing worse than mischaracterizing one field of science is to combine it with another mischaracterized area, in say biology or psychiatry (which some people might partially put into Level Three with good reason, since there is still no physical test for almost all psychiatric conditions diagnosed by physicians). Deepak Chopra’s works, which frankly I’ve found unreadable, but which are wildly popular, fall squarely into this category of pretentious quasi-science quackery.

There are some interesting books out there by reputable physicists which do raise some of these issues, but none of them is in the form of a self-help book. There are no formulas for how to collapse a meaningful waveform (that was what Schrodinger’s famous cat6 was all about) in real life. And the toxic mix of physics and metaphysics is about as useful as contemplating the number of angels who can dance on the head of a pin. When someone comes up with a mathematical formula which you can use to change your circumstances, get a good night’s sleep, or change your mental attitude, then it’s real science – but not before.

Level 5 - The Force

This is the most frustrating one to encounter. It’s the belief in “something” or in Spinoza’s “nature” god. Perhaps it’s gained popularity from the “Star Wars” series, and people just like the idea of all life being connected, in a sort of “feel-good-about-nature” and “have-wild-sex-with-the-blue-sexy-natives” “Avatar” (the movie) sense. (Just on a personal note, I really hate movies where lower tech societies defeat high tech ones – maybe it makes people feel good at some level, but then so does Santa Claus.)

In any event, it’s still a belief in something utterly unsubstantiated, no matter how “at one” you feel with life and the universe when you’re feeding the squirrels in the park. No, it’s not an anthropomorphic or personified “god”, and yes it’s sort of like the Hindu concept of Brahman, or Nirvana in some Buddhist doctrines, but that is not exactly an endorsement. Having compassion for all other life is indeed laudable, but you don’t need to go the extra step to justify this conviction by imbibing some cosmic intoxicant. And no, there is no “quantum consciousness” (see Level 4 above).

Level 6 – None of the Above

You’re totally free of any supernatural or unquantifiable beliefs about causation in your personal universe. Your morality is consistent with your own personal philosophy, and you don’t carry good luck charms, except for sentimental value. Congratulations.

So, where do you stand on the Atheist scale? No gods, but ghosts? No soul but good old Mother Nature? Being an atheist is just one step on the road to adopting a questioning attitude towards life. For a great many of the questions that humans crave answers for, there are no objective answers. Sometimes you have to be brave enough to walk in the darkness, knowing that you don’t know what’s there, as opposed to walking in with your imaginary friend or lucky talisman.

Reading through this, I don't see any one single person in this forum qualifying as an atheists.

All you guys are just God haters.

Cc: KingEbukasblog, And my new friend, Butterflylion. This your moniker dey make me laugh everytime

BlueAngel444:


Your seeking freedom from religious structures and constriction because of their regulations.
I don't like religion but imagine a world where evil isn't restricted, where actions are not governed.

what are you talking about sir? we have secular laws now, I don't get you

People don't hate God, they just hate being ruled.
Lawlessness, they seek a false freedom they can never find more because it doesn't exist.

Listen carefully if you don't believe in God then you take something has god, maybe even man

Something, someone governs you and decides most part of your life and the frustration of trying to fight authorities set above you is usual futile if there's no higher authority backing you.

As long as you not self existing you are bound to something

hopefulLandlord:


what are you talking about sir? we have secular laws now, I don't get you

You decide to term it secular law, do you know how long man as existed and how these laws first came to be.
Most laws have their derivatives from some forms of religion. You can't uproot religion from history. It's like calling your father's and those that have existed before you fools, yet building upon the foundations they have laid. Fine taking into account they were perfect ans made errors.

Man hasn't grown more wise, jus more confused.

The fact their is still government which has its roots from religion and believes (e.g born to rule) means their will always be religion and all men religious by nature (the belief of first borns, sons)

For you to successfully uproot secular law or government, religion must be uprooted, so as long as their is governmental structures it's just religion twisted to favor man

701ecilana:

Reading through this, I don't see any one single person in this forum qualifying as an atheists.

All you guys are just God haters.

Cc: KingEbukasblog, And my new friend, Butterflylion. This your moniker dey make me laugh everytime

Do they really hate God, for that to be they must first know of him. I feel they are more confused and frustrated with the questions they have no true answer to, burdened by such quest they lay it aside as futile even before they begin

OtemAtum:
A world where everybody's name is his label would make perfect sense. A world where Johnydon would have his own personal tag called Johnydonism, Hahn is Hahnism, Wilgreasism, Otemism, Hopefullandlordism, Dalamanity, Realmindism, etc.

Such world would be full of brain users who study their own personal self and try to help the world in their own personal way. And the rules would just be 'use your own brain' and 'do good to humanity'.

I think free-thinking is close to this utopia of my dream.

Are you Otem that wrote doctrine of the Ufo, claiming to have been visited by an angel but in fact taking time to compel historical notes with fantasy just to delude the mind of the simple