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Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? - Politics (5) - Nairaland

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Igbo Scare: Southern Cameroon Hate For The Igbo Led To Secession From Nigeria / Igbo Scare: Southern Cameroon Hate For The Igbo Led To Secession From Nigeria / Dino Melaye Flaunts His Car In Russia, Says My Passion Is My Personal Property (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by salford1: 6:25am On Jun 09, 2017
Lifestone:
Biafra will be landlocked if the Niger Delta does not follow them
They are desperate to have Niger Delta for two main rwasons:
1. Access to sea and international trade.
2.Access to crude oil and hencertificate FX
That's why I believe there won't be Biafra without Niger Delta, and it's obvious why the Ibos are desperate to annex ND.
The other issue my Ibo brothers should know is that the present land area can not take their population, South East is almost fully built up and land locked .
I dont think any niger delta region can be annexed. They are geared towards staying with Nigeria or forming their own south-south region. If they stick with the former, then any encroachment into their lands would be met with brute force by the Nigerian armed forces.

1 Like

Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by jpphilips(m): 1:07pm On Jun 09, 2017
author=modik post=57327431]


....Premised on this assertion, why wont the frowning parties to any peaceful bilateral agreement for cessation, as a matter of remedy, frown at injustices and suppression meted out on Igbos in the present Nigeria setting ?

1 All eastern importers must come to clear goods from Apapa port while Port Harcourt port is concessioned to an individual northerner?

Do you realize that the Portharcourt port is an inland waterway?


2. Nigeria would finance a coastal railway project with common wealth from federation account while Eastern rail route would be financed through a concession and the users of that route pays via tolling after contributing to coastal line financed with common wealth


PPP is the Nigerian government's self defense strategy since they are unsure where their investments in the south east will end up, it is only wise to leave the SE in the hands of a concessionaire if they go ahead with their plans, so try and get the chronology right, it was demand for Biafra before PPP, you brought it upon yourself, no need to complain.



3. Third mainland bridge and every other major bridges in Nigeria is financed from federation account whereas 2nd Niger bridge is concessioned.?


Same as before, you have yourself to blame, FG did not ask you to threaten the unity of the federation, every action has equal and opposite reaction, you don't tell me you want out and expect me to be investing in your place, that's madness.
If you want out, then you must learn to do things for yourself.



4. Every 2 kms along the eastern highway is marked with roadblocks by Nigerian forces who impede smooth movement of goods and services vide stop and search in a non war situation while western and other major routes are free from such?


You are grooming a rebel group capable of shutting down 5 South eastern states yet you don't expect some law enforcement presence? wow!! your thought process is unique!



5. No single representative from eastern block in the security council of Nigeria and that sounds right?


You don't want a mole in your security apparatchik do you? by the way, there is a difference between what you "want" and what you "deserve".
The question i need to ask you at this point is; do you deserve to be at the highest security clearance in Nigeria where your loyalty lies with biafra? Do you deserve to get such juicy positions from a government you oppose? I don't see republicans appointing folks from the Democrats neither do I see the conservatives appointing from the Labour party except in a coalition government which is nt the case here, I really don't understand where this sense of "entitlement" comes from.

10 Likes

Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by jpphilips(m): 1:51pm On Jun 09, 2017
author=kingzizzy post=57330407]

Im not a lawyer, but it is still within the rights of an independent Biafran nation to take Nigeria to for 'ownership rights' of its citizens.

As most will recall, Cameroon took Nigeria to court over ownership of the Oil rich Bakassi peninsular and won.


You don't need to be a lawyer to own common sense. Cameroon won Nigeria at the Hague on its ownership of the bakassi Peninsular, few months later, the cameroonian authorities flushed out Bakassi indigenes (Nigerians) with military force, they left with no broom, no shirt and not a single pin, you may clear all doubts of your ignorance here:


http://allafrica.com/stories/201304010113.html



Lets look at a worst case scenario. Lets just assume that Biafra gets independence and Nigeria decided to have no diplomatic relation with Biafra and moves to expel all Biafrans and sieze their assets and properties. The Biafran Government is most likely to take the Nigerian Government to court over illegal aquisition of assets.

Has Nigeria taken Cameroon to court over Bakassi properties they took? has Biafra taken Nigeria to court over abandoned properties? has Igbos taken Nigeria to court over 20 pounds? if the answer is no, then your assumptions are baseless.

The worst that will happen is that Biafra will seize Nigeria's oil assets in retaliation, Nigeria will send Burantai and his boys to reclaim our assets, it becomes an armed conflict, few years on, biafra will become south Sudan with over 2m dead and 6m refugees. A once prosperous region will be reduced to dust for heeding the advice of senior lvnatic Nnamdi Kanu. Nigeria may not want to sustain the conflict but outrightly destroying the oil fields as we saw in Iraq vs Kuwait during the Gulf war!!



1) No international investor will ever step foot in Nigeria ever again because it will be noteworthy international news that the Nigerian Government can sieze the assets of foreigners, without compensation, just for being foreigners

You console yourself beyond the rights of ratiocinations, Cameroon evicted Nigerians over Bakassi, has that stopped foreign investors from investing in yaounde? Nigeria expelled ghanaians with no pin has it stopped MTN from coming? please get a grip over the lies you tell yourself


2)The existing international investors are most likely to liquidate their investments and leave. Investors dont like uncertainty. When the current investors realise that they are in a country where their investments can be siezed based on citizenship, none of them will feel safe about their investments


Utter Crap!! you should be worrying about your propertyless and penniless self than some multi national conglomerate than can easily close shop and move elsewhere? who knows by that time, you and your ilks will be refugees on UNHCR corned beef feeding program.



3) The siezing of people assets and their expulsion is most likely to erode the image of Nigeria in the international community while attracting a lot of sympathy for Biafra.

How much sympathy did Kwashiorkor struck biafran children attract in 1970 let alone a propertyless man on the street of Biafra, trust me the whole world will encourage you to move on as freedom is priceless, isn't that what you want?




4) It is quite possible that the UN might impose sanctions on Nigeria, especially if the international court rules against Nigeria

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A sanctioned Nigeria perhaps a few officials in Government, how does that return your properties?

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Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by jpphilips(m): 2:02pm On Jun 09, 2017
kingzizzy:


It is you that is not paying attention. Is what you are saying that when a person is not a citizen of , or renounces their citizenship of Nigeria, they are liable to loose their pproperties in Nigeria for this? If Dangote renounces his Nigeria citizenship and adopts Cameroonian citizenship, the Nigerian Government is entitled to sieze his houses and businesses for this?

Renouncing citizenship is different from Secession, why don't you look it up in the dictionary and get back to us.

5 Likes

Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by jpphilips(m): 2:15pm On Jun 09, 2017
salford1:

I dont think any niger delta region can be annexed. They are geared towards staying with Nigeria or forming their own south-south region. If they stick with the former, then any encroachment into their lands would be met with brute force by the Nigerian armed forces.

The thing is; Niger delta needs serious protection from the Biafrans, who else can guarantee that if not the Buratai boys? I don't see any choice here, ND is for Nigeria for their own good!! should they think otherwise, Nigeria will move in to secure her oil and gas assets,
any attempt to play around it will be met with AK/RPG blazing force, for the Niger delta, it is a lose lose situation.

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Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by emmadejust(m): 4:45pm On Jun 09, 2017
cry instead of sharing information and ideas on the matter , its now e-fight and abuse.
This is not good, posterity is keeping record of all our action
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Mujtahida: 5:08pm On Jun 09, 2017
jpphilips:


Have you heard anywhere in the world where Aliens challenge the citizens right of their host countries?
Which court are they gonna challenge that? Biafra Supreme Court or Nigeria's ? If the later, what are their chances of winning?

I know of the Abandoned property commission reason I asked you what it achieved, was it able to recover those igbo properties in the Niger delta? If your answer is no, then I don't see how it makes any difference.
My history may be rusty at this point, do you know of any commission set up to recover the Biafran money confiscated in 1970?

Agreed, nobody will want to lose his sweat without a fight, the right question is; what are the Biafran plans of getting victory this time around?

Finally, I agree democracy gave rise to secessionist agenda, it doesn't really matter which government is in place except the mandate of the military on the protection of sovereignty changes anytime soon.
Every resistance will be met with force regardless of the type of government in place.

In the UK one of the oldest democracies in the world, the N.ireland separatist groups the IRA met with a brutish force in a democracy, till date, that region including Belfast their capital is still under military occupation, never mind the scores of casualties the IRA took in its nearly 5 decades of insurrection.
Regardless of the government in place, anarchy is met with force world over.
Your first paragraph is vague. Are you asking if aliens can challenge the rights of citizens of a country in that country? If that is your question I'd say very well so. Aliens can sue and be sued in a foreign country. Our case law is replete with such cases.

As per your other paragraphs I do know just as I have indicated in my previous post that the right to self determination is a universally recognised right and if it were a crime Europe with at least 32 countries having secessionists movements
would have become a seething cauldron of secessionists inspired wars but as far as I know that's not the situation in Europe presently.

I get your position and I have made mine known too. No need for us going in circles. For what it's worth Biafra might or might not be.
Cheers.

2 Likes

Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by jollymizzle(m): 5:29pm On Jun 09, 2017
jpphilips:


You don't need anyone to tell you, go to PH, from Lagos Bus stop to Tourist Beach, every landlord there is either Okirika or Kalabari, in 1967, they were all igbos. Who knows, the Yorubas will be the biggest beneficiaries of this current agitation, I envy them really!!
Every 50yrs, the igbo man will commit a political suicide and blame others for his woes!!
Ordinary Nnamdi kanu who is still living in his father's house is now the Trumpet to decide the fate of igbos with properties littered everywhere, Nnamdi kanu whose village does not produce palm oil will decide the fate of Niger delta crude oil, just imagine the insult and disgrace that lvnatic is bringing upon igbos.
guy u no go kill peson grin. Lol I don't know if they've been somehow programmed to repeat their mistakes

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Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by cjrane: 5:48pm On Jun 09, 2017
Passionate plea for Igbos in northern Nigeria .

Please listen to the voice of reason

You cannot blame anyone or say you were not begged to listen when the deed is done.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpqN4Sa1Gso
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Mujtahida: 6:04pm On Jun 09, 2017
bakynes:
This issue is very simple, the new Biafra country needs a good bilateral relationship with Nigeria, if they are to retain their properties or the Naira currency in their hands and bank,if they don't get that bilateral relationship, a single law can make Biafrans lose all the properties and money they have ever made. So that's why they need to stop this Biafra issue and think of restructuring that way it will benefit them, Biafra will level many Igbos to ground zero.

Nnamdi Kanu wasn't thinking about this when he was insulting Nigeria.
He's not really a thinker as such. Everything is Chukwu Okike Abiama and you know that sells because people are gullible once God is invoked. I watched a youtube video where he was asking for guns. He was questioned but his answers were just rhetorics and nothing more.

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Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Mujtahida: 6:20pm On Jun 09, 2017
pheesayor:
no, except it was posted on nairaland which I didn't see. Who is the person you're talking about? Kindly post link to where it is on nairaland
It was posted on one of this Biafran issue threads. The poster even mentioned the name of the Banker. But I can't trace that thread now. That was where I first read the account.
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Mujtahida: 6:45pm On Jun 09, 2017
Dumaknesset:


With due respect you have not been paying attention, even Nigerians do not own lands in Nigeria, every body holds it in trust for the government. Once Biafra pull a skedaddle, the landlord takes over it's properties. No one is seizing ish. It is the law and it upon the basis that all land purchasers in Nigeria purchase land, that is why the deed of assignment always refer to the Land use Act as binding on the transaction. Hope you get it now.
You are right to say no one owns land in Nigeria because what Nigerians have is a right to land for 99 years but wrong to say everybody holds land in trust for the government rather it's the government that holds the land in trust for Nigerians. See the preamble of the Land Use Act. And you are a Lawyer right? No fall hand ooo.
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Nobody: 6:53pm On Jun 09, 2017
Mujtahida:

You are right to say no one owns land in Nigeria because what Nigerians have is a right to land for 99 years but wrong to say everybody holds land in trust for the government rather it's the government that holds the land in trust for Nigerians. See the preamble of the Land Use Act. And you are a Lawyer right? No fall hand ooo.

So when does preamble become the law. You are correct to the extent that indeed the Government hold lands in trust for Nigerians since there sovereignty is derived from the people, but the law is clear by its letters and spirit that the its is the land purchaser and not the people that hold the land in trust for the government. Hence consent and cofo, from government.There is a difference there.
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Mujtahida: 7:05pm On Jun 09, 2017
Dumaknesset:


So when does preamble become the law. You are correct to the extent that indeed the Government hold lands in trust for Nigerians since there sovereignty is derived from the people, but the law is clear by its letters and spirit that the its is the land purchaser and not the people that hold the land in trust for the government. Hence consent and cofo, from government.There is a difference there.
Yes the preamble is Law. It's not there as a fanciful icing on the law. This is too elementary please. Your other posrulations is somewhat garbled.
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Nobody: 7:44pm On Jun 09, 2017
Mujtahida:

Yes the preamble is Law. It's not there as a fanciful icing on the law. This is too elementary please. Your other posrulations is somewhat garbled.



Okay look up the essence of preamble in interpretation of statute, and thank me later. Plus I don't want to further cause any further confusion. DIY.
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by modik(m): 8:20pm On Jun 09, 2017
jpphilips:
author=modik post=57327431]


....Premised on this assertion, why wont the frowning parties to any peaceful bilateral agreement for cessation, as a matter of remedy, frown at injustices and suppression meted out on Igbos in the present Nigeria setting ?


Do you realize that the Portharcourt port is an inland waterway?




PPP is the Nigerian government's self defense strategy since they are unsure where their investments in the south east will end up, it is only wise to leave the SE in the hands of a concessionaire if they go ahead with their plans, so try and get the chronology right, it was demand for Biafra before PPP, you brought it upon yourself, no need to complain.



Same as before, you have yourself to blame, FG did not ask you to threaten the unity of the federation, every action has equal and opposite reaction, you don't tell me you want out and expect me to be investing in your place , that's madness.
If you want out, then you must learn to do things for yourself.





You are grooming a rebel group capable of shutting down 5 South eastern states yet you don't expect some law enforcement presence? wow!! your thought process is unique!





You don't want a mole in your security apparatchik do you? by the way, there is a difference between what you "want" and what you "deserve".
The question i need to ask you at this point is; do you deserve to be at the highest security clearance in Nigeria where your loyalty lies with biafra? Do you deserve to get such juicy positions from a government you oppose? I don't see republicans appointing folks from the Democrats neither do I see the conservatives appointing from the Labour party except in a coalition government which is nt the case here, I really don't understand where this sense of "entitlement" comes from




With due respect to your point of view, all comments in red color spells each letter of marginalization.

Myriads of reasons can be preferred why a group of people should continue under a well articulated technical subjugation and suppression in all its subtle coloration, that does not make it appetizing to swallow.


FGN, for fear of loss of investment is wary to invest in the east (as you opined), how about harvesting resources from the east and redistributing it to other regions? Does that spell equity? "He who goes to equity must go with clean hands"

If the causative factors of Biafra agitation is not addressed, are we to expect calm and tranquility among those ladened with yokes of subtle
denial of equity ?


Think!

https://www.nairaland.com/3851322/breakdown-disbursment-local-government-geopolitical

1 Like

Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by gohome: 11:57pm On Jun 09, 2017
If the so called biafrans go without a proper exist strategy, they will lose in very harsh places. But I bet you they won't lose in Lagos.

The reason is simple. Lagos has grown past gutter reason and ethnic stupidity of most black Africans. Modern Lagos (infrastructure) is being built by a lot of capital inflow from foreign banks. And the owners of this inflow are much wiser and operate at a level higher than your gutter mentality (vindictive my ass) Lagos elites and leaders along side the inflow owners will create a very conducive environment to make money for them self and their kids. Now the issue is, can you differentiate between a Biafran and other foreign investors? Yes maybe, by calling all of them terrorist. How do you prove that? It's likely going to be impossible, because it's a lie.

Again what's specific law will say biafrans lose your properties and Chinese or Indians or Dutch or Americans don't lose.

So my brother don't kid yourself... Lagos will still have modern laws like any other country because money knows no brother and must be made.




Are you implying here that kanu is not alone in his quest for secession? of course it is no longer news, the part I find amusing is that all the groups you mentioned have commenced the process on the global stage except kanu who is stuck on the radio. most mind boggling how he enlisted the support of folks who are educated.





You can't ask me to trust you when it you are selling your personal opinion, worse still, you didn't point to any verifiable fact in history that support your presumption.
After the war in 1970, with a stroke of a pen, Nigeria seized all biafran funds in the bank left them with just 20 pounds, do you think there are no courts at the time? or you think the country went stand still because of the so called litigations that ensued? Abandoned property nko?
This is what history taught me, in an event of a break up, Nigeria will get (let me borrow your words) "Punitive and Vindictive" because it is in their interest to do so, perhaps in 1970, it was convenient to take their money, today, it is convenient to take their properties, so yes Nigeria will respond in that manner, I am sure because it has happened before. So you should trust me not the other way round.






I don't reside in Lagos, where I reside, it is not a walk in the park, like you said, experience varies.[/quote]

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Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by gohome: 12:43am On Jun 10, 2017
pazienza:


Go and find out if Southern Sudan are in any bit interested in forming a new Union with the Northern Sudan, no matter how bad their present condition might be, they have a bright future, because they have freedom and so have their destiny in their hands to make or mar!

Freedom is priceless. For a person used to living in a failed British colonial estate, I don't expect you to understand that.

Oga, as it stands Igbos aren't going no where. The dynamics at play as at today is different. If Igbos go, not only will Nigeria seize to exist, it will go up in flames. My reasons are simple

1. Ijaw will have a nation. They won't share with nobody. Where will the the rest of the Niger Deltans go? Apart from say cross river and Akwa Ibom, anioma and ik we're that may join their cousins the rest will be stranded. 2 or more factions will fight for them.. WAR

2. Boko haram will overrun the NE and northern Cameroon is less than 6 months. You don't want to know what will happen to the shites. It will be Iran and Saudi play ground.

3. A plateau man and never be in the same country with the Hausa Fulani. As we speak, they don't co exist. (In other words, they can not stay in the same street)

4. Point 3 above can be said of all other sub groups in the middle belt.

5. It will very difficult for a country with this kind of structure to separate. And the world won't allow 180M black salvages ravage by crises to disturb their peace. They haven't recovered with Syria yet. They may not be able to use force to stop Nigerian was flaming up like they did in the 60s but they are other means.

6. One of such means is to have a political solution. They did it in 97/98, and if they play that card well, Nigeria can manage another 30 years

7. Another card that can be played will be restructuring. Nigeria can be restructured and grouped into more like minds. In my opinion, restructuring can prolong disintegration by another 50 years and maybe by then we hope that one world order would have washed away our stupid cave like ethnic stupidity as I would like to call it

8. So my brother, you are pawns. Pawns being used to fight extreamly hard for disintegration while the strategist and owners of the world manage it.

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Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by kolaaderin: 12:54am On Jun 10, 2017
Dumaknesset:
When I say Igbos don't think things through, you would not believe me, so you have not thought about it, yet you want secession.

I am a lawyer and here is a legal dimension.

First note that all lands in Nigeria by virtue of the Land Use Act, 1978 is owned by the state, federal government and local government accordingly. Developed parts are owned by the state through the state governor, the undeveloped parts are owned by the local government, while those areas acquired by federal government are owned by the Federal government.

Individuals and even corporate organizations are mere tenants to the the real owners, the governments! hence, the issuance of cofo, consent, excision, ratifications et al.

Once a property is abandoned as it will be, when the biafrans bolt, the properties will revert to the real owners that is the state government, local government or federal government vide a legal principle called bona vacantia.

Note the legal principle of quic quid plantatur solo solo cedit, he who owes the land owes what is on it, all the developments on the lands become that of the real owner.

All the biafrans properties will become that of Lagos state government, it will be the largest real estate deal in the world since igbos own 90 percent of real estate in Lagos state and Afonjas only own 0.2 percent of real estate in the east.

Jesu, apostle must hear this. this is not in any way a good news to my brothers, very sour soup
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by gohome: 5:32pm On Jun 10, 2017
jpphilips:
author=Mujtahida post=57321172]



I may not understand the so called difference between asking for Biafra and denouncing Nigeria. it is a one way ticket in my opinion.






Are you implying here that kanu is not alone in his quest for secession? of course it is no longer news, the part I find amusing is that all the groups you mentioned have commenced the process on the global stage except kanu who is stuck on the radio. most mind boggling how he enlisted the support of folks who are educated.





You can't ask me to trust you when it you are selling your personal opinion, worse still, you didn't point to any verifiable fact in history that support your presumption.
After the war in 1970, with a stroke of a pen, Nigeria seized all biafran funds in the bank left them with just 20 pounds, do you think there are no courts at the time? or you think the country went stand still because of the so called litigations that ensued? Abandoned property nko?
This is what history taught me, in an event of a break up, Nigeria will get (let me borrow your words) "Punitive and Vindictive" because it is in their interest to do so, perhaps in 1970, it was convenient to take their money, today, it is convenient to take their properties, so yes Nigeria will respond in that manner, I am sure because it has happened before. So you should trust me not the other way round.






I don't reside in Lagos, where I reside, it is not a walk in the park, like you said, experience varies.

If the so called biafrans go without a proper exist strategy, they will lose in very harsh places. But I bet you they won't lose in Lagos.

The reason is simple. Lagos has grown past gutter reason and ethnic stupidity of most black Africans. Modern Lagos (infrastructure) is being built by a lot of capital inflow from foreign banks. And the owners of this inflow are much wiser and operate at a level higher than your gutter mentality (vindictive my ass) Lagos elites and leaders along side the inflow owners will create a very conducive environment to make money for them self and their kids. Now the issue is, can you differentiate between a Biafran and other foreign investors? Yes maybe, by calling all of them terrorist. How do you prove that? It's likely going to be impossible, because it's a lie.

Again what's specific law will say biafrans lose your properties and Chinese or Indians or Dutch or Americans don't lose.

So my brother don't kid yourself... Lagos will still have modern laws like any other country because money knows no brother and must be made.
Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by jpphilips(m): 6:21pm On Jun 10, 2017
author=modik post=57362475]


With due respect to your point of view, all comments in red color spells each letter of marginalization.

Do you understand the meaning of chronological order?
First, you guys spoke with your votes, once defeated, you asked for Biafra, the feds responded with PPP that's self defense not marginalization. Were you thinking asking for Biafra in a united Nigeria is without consequence?
Did you hear Arewa's response to your sit at home order? Won't be long before your brothers in the north will become bullseye for radical northerners.
In the end, both you and Nigeria will sit down and count the cost, just like in 1970, you will lose.


Myriads of reasons can be preferred why a group of people should continue under a well articulated technical subjugation and suppression in all its subtle coloration, that does not make it appetizing to swallow

Like I said in the previous post, you have the right to ask for anything, you will only get what you deserve, like it or not, thats the real world for you.


FGN, for fear of loss of investment is wary to invest in the east (as you opined), how about harvesting resources from the east and redistributing it to other regions? Does that spell equity? "He who goes to equity must go with clean hands"

The investments were made before you asked for Biafra, without spelling out what becomes of those investments in a Biafran future, that alone will deter Nigeria from making future investments, what is wrong with that?
Our oil investments in the east are all Jvs a type of PPP so I dont understand the whole pseudo sense of entitlement you are brandishing.




If the causative factors of Biafra agitation is not addressed, are we to expect calm and tranquility among those ladened with yokes of subtle
denial of equity ?

Biafra is not a solution to any of Nigeria's myriads of problems, rather it is a means to anarchy and death.
I really dont need to explain the end of that road to you, the consequences of this agitation will send the right message dont say I didn't warn you.



Think

Sorry I can't think like you, im a realist while you a "fantasist"

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Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by jpphilips(m): 6:27pm On Jun 10, 2017
gohome:


If the so called biafrans go without a proper exist strategy, they will lose in very harsh places. But I bet you they won't lose in Lagos.

The reason is simple. Lagos has grown past gutter reason and ethnic stupidity of most black Africans. Modern Lagos (infrastructure) is being built by a lot of capital inflow from foreign banks. And the owners of this inflow are much wiser and operate at a level higher than your gutter mentality (vindictive my ass) Lagos elites and leaders along side the inflow owners will create a very conducive environment to make money for them self and their kids. Now the issue is, can you differentiate between a Biafran and other foreign investors? Yes maybe, by calling all of them terrorist. How do you prove that? It's likely going to be impossible, because it's a lie.

Again what's specific law will say biafrans lose your properties and Chinese or Indians or Dutch or Americans don't lose.

So my brother don't kid yourself... Lagos will still have modern laws like any other country because money knows no brother and must be made.














I am not sure you quoted my post to make sense, if you think Nigeria can not differentiate a Chinese from an Igbo man, then you dont deserve a response.

7 Likes

Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by jpphilips(m): 6:50pm On Jun 10, 2017
author=Mujtahida post=57356835]
first paragraph is vague. Are you asking if aliens can challenge the rights of citizens of a country in that country? If that is your question I'd say very well so. Aliens can sue and be sued in a foreign country. Our case law is replete with such cases.

You may go back and read that paragraph again, you can't conclude it is vague simply because you don't know the answers.


I get your position and I have made mine known too. No need for us going in circles. For what it's worth Biafra might or might not be.
Cheers.

Biafra is a reality only in the minds of poor students of history. The fact available to me says without fear of contradiction that Nigeria has not lost a conventional warfare since 1914.
That goes to prove that the current Biafra noise will end in gnashing of teeth and victory for common sense.

3 Likes

Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by gohome: 7:08pm On Jun 10, 2017
jpphilips:



I am not sure you quoted my post to make sense, if you think Nigeria can not differentiate a Chinese from an Igbo man, then you dont deserve a response.


You have no answer to the question? I will ask again? In the eyes of the law, How will foreigners be differentiated?

1 Like

Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by jpphilips(m): 7:16pm On Jun 10, 2017
gohome:



You have no answer to the question? I will ask again? In the eyes of the law, How will foreigners be differentiated?


Let me advise you for free, when you are on the Internet, do not assume you are relating with your peers in an unenlightened microcosm.
I am not sure you have owned a property in Nigeria, if you have, you will know the process hence understand better how dvmb your question is.

2 Likes

Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Mujtahida: 7:50pm On Jun 10, 2017
jpphilips:
author=Mujtahida post=57356835]


You may go back and read that paragraph again, you can't conclude it is vague simply because you don't know the answers.




Biafra is a reality only in the minds of poor students of history. The fact available to me says without fear of contradiction that Nigeria has not lost a conventional warfare since 1914.
That goes to prove that the current Biafra noise will end in gnashing of teeth and victory for common sense.

There's nothing in the vague first paragraph of your penultimate post for me to answer because I could not discern if you were talking about the right of citizens or citizenship right.
I can only guess. I don't know for sure what you mean.

I am not for or against biafra so my arguments are not tinged with sentiments. If Biafra becomes a reality, fine. If it does not, fine. I just want to put down certain viewpoints. Shikena.

The arguments from your side as I understand it is that once Biafra is declared, war will ensue and Biafrans will lose their status as citizens and as a consequence lose their property. And I opined and still opine that nothing is fixed. It's not black and white.

RE : DOES SECESSION OF A COUNTRY MAKE AN INDIVIDUAL LOSE HIS PERSONAL PROPERTY? That's the topic once again. For you secession equals war. But I have a different opinion: secession does not necessarily mean war. Your opinions are ruled by just one thought: war, war, war. But I look at it broadly to say there might or might be no war. South Sudan was had without a war, was it? What of Czechslovakia, montenegro and Serbia, India/Pakistan? is it only through wars that nations secede? Though I readily concede that most secessions have been trailed by war but history proves that other nations have parted ways peacefully and at this point whatever is said now are just postulations. There might or might be no war in the event of the secession of Biafra. And whether war ensues or not there will be litigation in our courts up to the supreme Court on the status of citizens and their property rights. (I have cited Ojukwu case as a precedent and buttressed the fact that we are in a democratic setting not the military that ruled after the war) The fact that Nigeria has never lost a war is besides the point. I know Nigerian military history.

4 Likes

Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by gohome: 8:14pm On Jun 10, 2017
jpphilips:



Let me advise you for free, when you are on the Internet, do not assume you are relating with your peers in an unenlightened microcosm.
I am not sure you have owned a property in Nigeria, if you have, you will know the process hence understand better how dvmb your question is.


Yet again no answers. Are you scared of a debate ?

1 Like

Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by gohome: 8:18pm On Jun 10, 2017
Mujtahida:

There's nothing in the vague first paragraph of your penultimate post for me to answer because I could not discern if you were talking about the right of citizens or citizenship right.

I am not for or against biafra so my arguments are not tinged with sentiments. If Biafra becomes a reality, fine. If it does not, fine. I just want to put down certain viewpoints. Shikena.

The arguments from your side as I understand it is that once Biafra is declared, war will ensue and Biafrans will lose their status as citizens and as a consequence lose their property. And I opined and still opine that nothing is fixed. It's not black and white.

RE : DOES SECESSION OF A COUNTRY MAKE AN INDIVIDUAL LOSE HIS PERSONAL PROPERTY? That's the topic once again. For you secession equals war. But I have a different opinion: secession does not necessarily mean war. Your opinions are ruled by just one thought: war, war, war. But I look at it broadly to say there might or might be no war. South Sudan was had without a war, was it? What of Czechslovakia, montenegro and Serbia, India/Pakistan? is it only through wars that nations secede? Though I readily concede that most secessions have been trailed by war but history proves that other nations have parted ways peacefully and at this point whatever is said now are just postulations. There might or might be no war in the event of the secession of Biafra. And whether war ensues or not there will be litigation in our courts up to the supreme Court on the status of citizens and their property rights. (I have cited Ojukwu case as a precedent and buttressed the fact that we are in a democratic setting not the military that ruled after the war) The fact that Nigeria has never lost a war is besides the point. I know Nigerian military history.

You get sense. Standing ovation!!

2 Likes

Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by modik(m): 8:41pm On Jun 10, 2017
jpphilips:
author=modik post=57362475]




Do you understand the meaning of chronological order?
First, you guys spoke with your votes, once defeated, you asked for Biafra, the feds responded with PPP that's self defense not marginalization. Were you thinking asking for Biafra in a united Nigeria is without consequence?
Did you hear Arewa's response to your sit at home order? Won't be long before your brothers in the north will become bullseye for radical northerners.
In the end, both you and Nigeria will sit down and count the cost, just like in 1970, you will lose.
[/color]


Like I said in the previous post, you have the right to ask for anything, you will only get what you deserve, like it or not, thats the real world for you. [/color]




The investments were made before you asked for Biafra, without spelling out what becomes of those investments in a Biafran future, that alone will deter Nigeria from making future investments, what is wrong with that?
Our oil investments in the east are all Jvs a type of PPP so I dont understand the whole pseudo sense of entitlement you are brandishing.[/color]





[cor=#000099]Biafra is not a solution to any of Nigeria's myriads of problems, rather it is a means to anarchy and death.
I really dont need to explain the end of that road to you, the consequences of this agitation will send the right message dont say I didn't warn you.[/color]




[cor=#000099]Sorry I can't think like you, im a realist while you are a "fantasist"
[/color]




Take it or leave it, we live in a world where every citizen should not only be free but seen to be free.

As a world citizen, I have an inalienable right to self determination. That right, is recognized globally.

A state where a citizen would be seen but not to be heard is not the best for him, where equality is defined by quota system and not by meritocracy, is not the best place to be.

I shouldn't remind you that this is 2017 and not 1967. The world has moved and we must move along. Violence is not the strategy (May 30th is on record).


A country where sanctity of life is only on paper can never be a dream land of any forward looking citizen. (A section of the country has absolute right to take fellow citizen's lives at any slight provocation without being brought to book, while others protest peacefully/unarmed and are silenced with weapons acquired with tax payers money).

A country where application of law is selective (different treatment for the rich and the poor)(African China's song comes to mind), hmmm

A country where citizens for over 50 years pay for darkness instead of electricity, is heart rending!

Above all, a country where unity is by force without the tenets of equity and equality is not fit for humans.


Re-think!

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Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by Mujtahida: 9:04pm On Jun 10, 2017
gohome:


Oga, as it stands Igbos aren't going no where. The dynamics at play as at today is different. If Igbos go, not only will Nigeria seize to exist, it will go up in flames. My reasons are simple

1. Ijaw will have a nation. They won't share with nobody. Where will the the rest of the Niger Deltans go? Apart from say cross river and Akwa Ibom, anioma and ik we're that may join their cousins the rest will be stranded. 2 or more factions will fight for them.. WAR

2. Boko haram will overrun the NE and northern Cameroon is less than 6 months. You don't want to know what will happen to the shites. It will be Iran and Saudi play ground.

3. A plateau man and never be in the same country with the Hausa Fulani. As we speak, they don't co exist. (In other words, they can not stay in the same street)

4. Point 3 above can be said of all other sub groups in the middle belt.

5. It will very difficult for a country with this kind of structure to separate. And the world won't allow 180M black salvages ravage by crises to disturb their peace. They haven't recovered with Syria yet. They may not be able to use force to stop Nigerian was flaming up like they did in the 60s but they are other means.

6. One of such means is to have a political solution. They did it in 97/98, and if they play that card well, Nigeria can manage another 30 years

7. Another card that can be played will be restructuring. Nigeria can be restructured and grouped into more like minds. In my opinion, restructuring can prolong disintegration by another 50 years and maybe by then we hope that one world order would have washed away our stupid cave like ethnic stupidity as I would like to call it

8. So my brother, you are pawns. Pawns being used to fight extreamly hard for disintegration while the strategist and owners of the world manage it.
Interesting points you have raised here. Let's discuss. And my viewpoint might differ from yours but as matured people let's keep it civil and polite.
On your eight points I have always believed that it's virtually impossible for Nigeria to split into two and I regard those who take such a view as being too simplistic and naive in their thinking. In a different thread on this Biafran issue I did posit that Nigeria as a geographical space is what is holding this country together. Once that band snaps all the inherent ethnic fissures and fault lines would give way and the whole nation will go to pieces.

But I discern that despite your calls for restructuring, despite that you seem to believe that Nigeria will split into more than one piece you still believe that it is inevitable that Nigeria splits. Why do you think so?

Nigeria is a key geopolitical player as far as Africa is concerned. She shoulders lots of responsibility and I do not think that the world powers will countenance her going to pieces. It is in their interest that Nigeria remains as a piece. Think of the possible monumental humanitarian crisis with spill over effects. Sierra Leone is still healing, Liberia, Cote D'ivoire too, Ghana, Togo, Benin are very small. So who'd absorb the spill over?

Psychologically Igbos have become schizorphrenics as far as national identity and loyalty is concerned and it's bad for them as far as national perception and the space available for them politically is concerned. The civil war caused a rupture in the consciousness of the nation that has not yet healed. In fact the wounds have fostered and has become a suppurating sore. They simply cannot be trusted (I am referencing national perception here). Nigeria feels that Igbos still carry that threatening and divisive vision in their heart and yes Biafra has become the refuge, the comfort, the hope of the Igbos in a nation where we all suffer just like the slaves during the slave era projected their visions of freedom to the heavenly Jerusalem. Biafra is the alternate dream for Igbos in the absence of a Nigerian dream. So I'd like to ask don't you think that the time has come or should come for the Igbos to exorcise this vision from their collective unconscious?

2 Likes

Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by gohome: 9:11pm On Jun 10, 2017
Mujtahida:

There's nothing in the vague first paragraph of your penultimate post for me to answer because I could not discern if you were talking about the right of citizens or citizenship right.

I am not for or against biafra so my arguments are not tinged with sentiments. If Biafra becomes a reality, fine. If it does not, fine. I just want to put down certain viewpoints. Shikena.

The arguments from your side as I understand it is that once Biafra is declared, war will ensue and Biafrans will lose their status as citizens and as a consequence lose their property. And I opined and still opine that nothing is fixed. It's not black and white.

RE : DOES SECESSION OF A COUNTRY MAKE AN INDIVIDUAL LOSE HIS PERSONAL PROPERTY? That's the topic once again. For you secession equals war. But I have a different opinion: secession does not necessarily mean war. Your opinions are ruled by just one thought: war, war, war. But I look at it broadly to say there might or might be no war. South Sudan was had without a war, was it? What of Czechslovakia, montenegro and Serbia, India/Pakistan? is it only through wars that nations secede? Though I readily concede that most secessions have been trailed by war but history proves that other nations have parted ways peacefully and at this point whatever is said now are just postulations. There might or might be no war in the event of the secession of Biafra. And whether war ensues or not there will be litigation in our courts up to the supreme Court on the status of citizens and their property rights. (I have cited Ojukwu case as a precedent and buttressed the fact that we are in a democratic setting not the military that ruled after the war) The fact that Nigeria has never lost a war is besides the point. I know Nigerian military history.

A lot of people are too dumb to think and simulate possible scenarios that can ensue based on current realities. They only assume what their brain capacity can.... War happened the last time, it will surely happen again.

Now to the question asked 'does secession make one lose assets'?

The answer could be yes or No

I have simulated different scenarios and the most plausible as at current reality is they won't be any war for secession. If At all they is secession, it will most likely be peaceful and Nigeria will first of all go into a tricky mode....a referendum mode (which of course will take guts for any leader to conduct). In that mode, everybody (not just the secessionist... everybody) will start to mop up dollars, gold or cryptos the stock exchange will crash, so also the real estate market.

And as we know, 90% of dollars in our banks are electronic and would not be prone to people breaking vaults and confisticating. Some of these funds are linked to hedge funds, equities, and capital firms owned by different entities, banks, clubs etc.

So let's assume, I am unlucky to come from a sessionist region and I would love to safe guard my assets, money and estate. What will I do?

1. Money: Take a dollar position and hedge in an international capital or bank. Can also take positions in the Nigeria banks with international operations. And because money is electronic, I can always cash out anywhere with master card, visa or PayPal

2. Estate: Get a real estate company in conjunction with a reputable law firm and sign an MOU for them to properly manage.

4 Likes 1 Share

Re: Does Secession From A Country Make an Individual Lose His Personal Property? by gohome: 9:20pm On Jun 10, 2017
Mujtahida:

Interesting points you have raised here. Let's discuss. And my viewpoint might differ from yours but as matured people let's keep it civil and polite.
On your eight points I have always believed that it's virtually impossible for Nigeria to split into two and I regard those who take such a view as being too simplistic and naive in their thinking. In a different thread on this Biafran issue I did posit that Nigeria as a geographical space is what is holding this country together. Once that band snaps all the inherent ethnic fissures and fault lines would give way and the whole nation will go to pieces.

But I discern that despite your calls for restructuring, despite that you seem to believe that Nigeria will split into more than one piece you still believe that it is inevitable that Nigeria splits. Why do you think so?

Nigeria is a key geopolitical player as far as Africa is concerned. She shoulders lots of responsibility and I do not think that the world powers will countenance her going to pieces. It is in their interest that Nigeria remains as a piece. Think of the possible monumental humanitarian crisis with spill over effects. Sierra Leone is still healing, Liberia, Cote D'ivoire too, Ghana, Togo, Benin are very small. So who'd absorb the spill over?

Psychologically Igbos have become schizorphrenics and it's bad for them as far as national perception and the space available for them politically is concerned. The civil war caused a rupture in the consciousness of the nation that has not yet healed. In fact the wounds have fostered and has become a suppurating sore. They simply cannot be trusted (I am referencing national perception here). Nigeria feels that Igbos still carry that threatening and divisive vision in their heart and yes Biafra has become the refuge, the comfort, the hope of the Igbos in a nation where we all suffer just like the slaves during the slave era projected their visions of freedom to the heavenly Jerusalem. Biafra is the alternate dream for Igbos in the absence of a Nigerian dream. So I'd like to ask don't you think that the time has come or should come for the Igbos to exorcise this vision from their collective unconscious?

It's not inevitable... it's possible. That why I stated point 7. See below.

7. Another card that can be played will be restructuring. Nigeria can be restructured and grouped into more like minds. In my opinion, restructuring can prolong disintegration by another 50 years and maybe by then we hope that one world order would have washed away our stupid cave like ethnic stupidity as I would like to call it

What this means is that if the games are played well, it will take another 50 years for people to start to cry for their own country (ditto Scotland, Barcelona , Texas and California) But by then, one world order (interconnectivity of world) will make it impossible and will help in washing away cave like ethnic stupidity we practice in black Africa.

And about the Igbos... I hate to group and tag people. People that come in different shades and colors. It's bad.

People also say the Jewish people are the most schizorphrenic people there is. Is it good for them? Yes, No, Maybe?

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