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Is The Basmalah (بِسْمِ اللهِ) An Actual Verse Of Al Fatiah Or Not? / A Beautiful Mosque In Turkey Designed Based On A Verse Of Qur'an / Why It Is Dangerous For A Muslim To Marry Only One Wife – Islamic Scholar (2) (3) (4)
|Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by AlBaqir(m): 12:45pm On Jun 15, 2017|
# One of the most controversial verse of the Qur'an is verse 34 of surah an-Nisa.
"As to those women on whose part you see ill‑conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allaah is Ever Most High, Most Great" (Surah an-Nisa’:34).
Nearly all (if not all) the exegesis (tafsir) of the holy Quran, be it Sunni tafasir, be it Shi'a tafasir or whatever unanimously interpreted the word:
"yadhribuhunnah” in the verse as “strike or beat them". However, each of this tafasir try its best to underplay the word "strike or beat" arguing its "just a mild strike or beat that should not cause bruise or injury". And they argued based on the verse itself that "beat or strike lightly" can only be done after the first two method (admonish them, refuse their bed) have been exhausted.
# For further information on Sunni stance, read:
# For Shi'a stance:
# There are ahadith in both Sunni and Shi'i documents where Nabi forbid and frown at, beating of women (wives).
# On the other hand, there exist hadith which reportedly says Nabi allowed beating or striking of one's wife(s), for example:
# Then, there are plenty ahadith which show sahabah beat their wives and some even advised by fellow sahabah to beat their wives. Few of those ahadith can be seen here:
# These 3 categories of the above ahadith probably influenced the Mufassirun (exegesists) to interpret the word: "yadhribuhunnah” as “strike or beat them" leaving out the other meaning of the word "dharaba"
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|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by AlBaqir(m): 12:48pm On Jun 15, 2017|
# I, alongside many Muslims, used to argue this verse to any "antagonist" exactly the highlights of tafsirs above did.
# However, a crystal clear fact is Nabi whom was described by his wife Aisha (in a popular hadith) as "action Quran", that is, he always abide and follow every dictates of the Quran, never beat his wife, whether strike hard or lightly. Fortunately, we have handful sahih ahadith which showed some of his wives disobeyed him, planned against him, yelled at him....in fact, ahadith say "he separated and parted from them" for sometimes (not divorce) until those wives came to their senses. No doubt he must have exhausted all options available knowing the most elastic endurance and mercifulness of the holy Prophet.
This action interpreted the other meaning of "Dharaba" which Quranic exegesis refused to interpret with.
# The meaning of “ dharaba’ ” in al-Munjid: “Thus, it is said, ‘ Dharaba adh-dhahru baynanah ’, meaning that, ‘The passage of time caused us to part"
Other meaning as per classical Arabic dictionary:
1. parting and separation.
This one meaning is supported by the Qur'an in surah an-Nisa: 101 when Allah says:
Surah An-Nisa, Verse 101:
وَإِذَا ضَرَبْتُمْ فِي الْأَرْضِ
"And when you journey in the earth..."
The word "Dharaba" was equally used.
2. turn away from
3. "to dispense with”; when referring to something baseless or without foundation.
NB: This fact influenced me to abandon those tafasir, hadiths, (curry-flavored) explanations which suggest a Muslim can beat or strike his wife. Obviously, beating will do NOTHING to change the stubborn wife but parting or separating from her will do.
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|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by lanrexlan(m): 1:16pm On Jun 15, 2017|
Nice submission Albaqir, lexiconkabir (Abdulkabir) once made similar submission here.
Abdulkabir, do you still hold to this submission of yours??
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by Nobody: 4:12pm On Jun 15, 2017|
No I don't and I mentioned that towards the end of that thread....
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by Nobody: 4:14pm On Jun 15, 2017|
I would love to see the full hadeeth you are speaking about here;
ahadith say "he separated and parted from them"
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by tintingz(m): 5:17pm On Jun 15, 2017|
Well said Albaqir.
Domestic violence on women can't solve anything, and it should be put to an end.
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by lanrexlan(m): 5:34pm On Jun 15, 2017|
AbdelKabir:You said this akhee
Please enlighten us on the proper research of yours that made you changed your stance. Won't you mind doing that?
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by AlBaqir(m): 5:46pm On Jun 15, 2017|
# Its a very long ahadith but here's the glimpse:
Reference : Sahih Muslim 1479 a
In-book reference : Book 18, Hadith 40
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 9, Hadith 3507
'Umar b. al-Khattab (Allah be pleased with him)
When Allah's Apostle ( s) kept himself away from his wives, I entered the mosque, and found people striking the ground with pebblesand saying: Allah's Messenger (s ) has divorced and that was before they were commanded to observe seclusion 'Umar said to himself: I must find this (actual position) today. So I went to 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) and said (to her): Daughter of Abu Bakr, have you gone to the extent of giving trouble to Allah's Messenger ( s)? Thereupon she said: Son of Khattab,
you have nothing to do with me, and I have nothing to do
with you. You should look to your own receptacle......
..... I said: Messenger of Allah, you remained in your apartment for twenty-nine days.
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by ikupakuti(m): 1:16am On Jun 16, 2017|
Pls, I‘ll like you explain to me the basis behind going for another interpretation of DHARABA as against the agelong held view, which got both oral & practical backings from the AHADITH, SALAFS & in extention, the muslim community prior to this 21st century, where modern scholars are trying to ‘modify‘ some islamic standards in order to for it to ‘appeal‘ to the ‘modern‘ world.
Cos before the advent of feminism & the agenda of emasculating men, I mean before, when women were being ‘beating‘ in every society of the world (the west inclusive) no Islamic scholar was thinking of another ‘meaning‘ for that word.
#Is it because it seems archiac as to today‘s level of enlightment ni or ...
#Is it due to the fragility of the women physique ni or ...
# Is it because men & women are ‘equal‘ therefor hes in no position to discipline her by beating ?
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by AlBaqir(m): 10:08am On Jun 16, 2017|
# First, be rest assured that what I put together up there is only accepted by insignificant number of Muslim. Majority still believe in that age long traditional interpretation.
# Second, my motivation has nothing to do with "appealing to the modern world". Islam has its own world which started more than 1500 years ago. However the problem is many things were influenced by cultural adherence, politics, sectarianism, tribalism, etc. All these crept into Islamic systems and funny enough those that handed these "traditional ways" to us instilled great fear into our hearts and seemed to have locked the door of opposition, questioning, reasoning etc.
# Third, its not that people are not thinking or do not want to oppose or challenge certain principles until now. Imagine a Muslim believing document, written centuries after the demise of the Prophet, to be100% accurate?! Yet if you scrutinised and expose errors therein, you will be labeled "kufar". People run away from this stigma thereby keep silent.
# Fourth, my best selling point is the fact that if we claim to emulate the Prophet, how did he practically dealt with his erring wives?
There are lots of other things I questioned due to unconvincing evidences. For example, issue of stoning to death of adulterer, slavery, concept of Jihad, apostasy etc.
It has always been Quran vs ahadith. Majority are of the opinion that the later should interpret the former even if there's or seemed to be conflict. I am not of this type to a very large extent.
# Today, people still beat their women. So its not that today's world have abolish the practice although there are more campaign against it than as it was yesterday.
# It is obvious before this modern age, the Prophet had set a practicable standard of how to manage an erring wives. Beating was never part of it. So its never about "today's enlightenment" rather its about dropping one system of the past and adhering to yet a more established system of the past.
To your last two points:
# There are tens of ahadith which warn husbands to do gently with their wives because of their tender and fragile nature. Same with kids.
# Men and women are equal in spirituality before God, according to the teachings of Islam. Only "he" with fear of God excel the other. However, there are differences between them in physicality therefore Islam give them different responsibilities to discharge.
If all these are truly put in place, the idea or interpretation of "beating" will definitely be throw out as an option.
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by Nobody: 10:56am On Jun 16, 2017|
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by Nobody: 12:07pm On Jun 16, 2017|
This is what happens when you keep trying induct an old-fashioned religion into the modern age. Underplay the word, really? Someone commanded you to beat women, but then you say shït like "the beating shouldn't cause bruise or injury" So what are you gonna beat them with? Breeze?
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|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by ikupakuti(m): 12:29pm On Jun 16, 2017|
#Yes, there are customs & conventions that have crept into religion & are mistaken for it but here we are talking about a clear Quranic ruling perfectly understood & applied by predecessors as supported by documented history & like I stated it wasnt an issue until now, why ?
#The emphasis on women being treated with care was actually due to the fact that, they are subjected to the control/guidance of men, such recommendation were also made in respect to other subjects too (non women) & it does not negate the application of necessary disciplinary measures when the rights of God are trampled on.
#Its like the minority holding this view failed to grasp the wisdom behind a man (as the leader of his home) to discipline his erring wife. Take for eg
Should your wife consume alcohol, would you/she rather get the ruling in that vs applied or get her reported to an open court to get her flogged 40/80 lashes and get ridiculed publicly ?
# Anybody can get their ar.se whooped, all they need do is commit an offence that attracts such. If the holy prophet (saw) could recommend beating for children (girls inclusive) by the parents then whats so special about wives/women ?......typing
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by aadoiza: 12:30pm On Jun 16, 2017|
If you don't share their bed these days as a form of comeuppance, one word OYO 'cos they can always go back to their exes
@Albaqir. I would have made you the number one Muslim on Nairaland, but you tried to smuggle the most puerile and contentious theory—evolution theory—into the Quran.
Nice job here, though
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by Nobody: 12:52pm On Jun 16, 2017|
aadoiza:Well, I know this
Stars are not stones. Stars are waaaaaay bigger than stones
In fact, the smallest Star (Red Dwarf) is more massive than Earth and the biggest star (VY Cannis Majoris) is thousands of times larger than the Sun, so it would be dumb to compare it with planet earth
But then you have the Quran saying Allah stones demons with star. Please, how can you launch something bigger than earth at earth? That would totally obliterate the entire planet. It's like killing a single fly with an atomic bomb. It makes no sense.
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|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by ikupakuti(m): 12:56pm On Jun 16, 2017|
....the word DHARABA in that vs actually means BEATING & the Quran also reported it application in Q38:44 in the case of AYUB (as) & his wife.
#About the approach used by the holy prophet (saw) in dealing with his wives, firstly I want us to know that
1- Aside being their husband, hes also a prophet to them & they are aware of that, so there is a limit they can go in rebellion as againt to we ordinary men & our wives.
2- Hes a leader that was cammanded to be emulated & as such he usually exercises extreme patience beyond the average human limits in most instances, before some will go & pummel his wife & call it sunnah.
#The women screaming DV today are actually responsible for over 70% of it against their maids who are mostly females like them & against their children also but through their usual manipulative pretentions coupled with the aid of weaklings who called themselves men, they‘ve been able to shift off the attention of the people & the media from themselves.
#I‘ll like to ask you, if one of his wives (saw) had commited an offence which attracts a stipulated amount of flogging...
1-Would he have overlooked it & refuse to carry out an injuction of God due to his clemency for women ?
2- If he would have applied it, would it be publicly or would he had chosen the method in that vs ?
I‘ll want you to take this vs Q33:30 into perspective.
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by nijabazaar: 12:56pm On Jun 16, 2017|
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by AlBaqir(m): 2:15pm On Jun 16, 2017|
Please be attentive to this explanation below, dear brother:
# The fact remain that the word "dharaba" still remain as it is in the Quran. In fact apart from the ayah under discussion, it is used in other places which never denote "beat or strike" e.g surah Tahrim : 11, it says:
"wa dharaba Allahu masalan liledhina amanu - And Allah set forth an example for those who believe"
# This shows that the word "dharaba" as other words in Arabic language and every other languages has several meanings. So, in that passage under discussion, it is not ordained or a must that meaning of "beat" should be used. Like I said at the OP, Quranic exegists were compelled and influenced by certain hadith to stick only to that one sided interpretation. So it is those hadith we should rather faulted and not Quran.
# Another good example is the verse of ablution. Quran clearly says "wash your face and your hands up till elbows, and wipe part of your heads and your feet to the ankles".
* Clearest order of the Quran is to wipe part of head and feet NOT to wash head and feet.
* But unfortunately because there exist various hadith which says sahabah claimed to have seen the Prophet washing his feet, Mufassir reinterpreted this clear verse of the Quran to agree with "washing" in the hadith. However, they swept other ahadith which agreed with the ruling of the Quran, under the carpet. That was the reason I said politics, environmental factors, sectarianism, tribalism, etc influenced so many interpretation in Islam.
# Why Now?
It gatta start somewhere. It is obviously part of restatement of Islamic history and understanding. Quran remains as it is but its interpretations by human is bound to attract different views.
# Absolutely, I agreed with you and I underlined "rights of God". It is never part of " Rights of God" that when a woman erred and did something very wrong to her husband, she should get beaten up.
We have marriage rights in Islam, rights of husband, rights of wife(s), rights of children.
# Consumption of alcohol is part of violating the "rights of God". This has nothing to do with " rights of husband".
# And note punishment in Islam is only designed for the unrepentant. That's why before any punishment can be apply, there is avenue for warning and repentance. And here Quran says if they (sinners) sincerely repent and go far away from the sin, leave them alone (from punishment).
Unfortunately, Islamic punishment has been presented today as no-second chance, no-mercy rulings.
# The difference is one is assumed to have been matured mentally and the other is still a child. Sit a child down, talk sensibly to him/her, its of no use but cane remind them quickly.
# However, in the context above, parents that doesn't pray or imbibe God's injunctions themselves, do not have any right to beat a child who doesn't. Naturally and normally, children emulate their parents.
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by aadoiza: 2:25pm On Jun 16, 2017|
MisterLomantic:Please could you stop using know and replace it with believe.
So you want me to believe that you and science cohorts were able to estimate the sizes/dimensions of stars that are billions of light years away
Na no go kill person with all these 'apocryphal scientific drivels'
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by Buhari4dullard: 2:55pm On Jun 16, 2017|
Gentlemen, I no sure oh!
Imams teach muslims how to beat their wives, is that God?
here they teach the rules of wife beating
The women in islam are more than willing to be beaten
Muslim men should be allowed to physically beat their wives if they refuse to follow orders, according to a group of women belonging to a radical Islamic theological group.
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by AlBaqir(m): 3:05pm On Jun 16, 2017|
Here the meaning is right (beat) because of its context take in your hand. Unlike the previous ayah in surah Tahrim which followed with "mathalan" and which means to set forth, to illustrate. And in Surah Nisa which could mean something else apart from beat, to cast aside, to separate from.
So, Quran uses the word "dharaba" in so many places with different meanings as per the context.
# So don't you think that if that ayah in surah Nisah truly meant to beat, will Nabi not abide by the law and command of his Lord?
# Rather instead of beating any of his erring wives who caused him so much trouble, he separated from them for 29 days (a whole month).
Why can't you emulate this instead of beating which he never ever did? Nabi was described as "working and walking Quran".
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by Nobody: 3:05pm On Jun 16, 2017|
aadoiza:These are not speculations mister
These are plain facts. And to say they're billions of light years away is an exaggeration. A lot of them are just thousands of light years away and closer than people think. And you should ask yourself how the unit "light years" came to be if those people really do not "know" what they speak of.
If you don't believe, refer to info provided by different space exploration organisations
But think again, even if they're wrong (which they aren't), it's simply ridiculous for a god who "knows and sees all" and does not dwell on earth to think a star is the size of a stone
I thought he created them!
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|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by aadoiza: 3:43pm On Jun 16, 2017|
MisterLomantic:You can believe all that balderdash, after all there is freedom to guzzling down crap. And I kinda like the fact that stars are now amazingly thousands of light years away and no longer millions or billions, thanks for that info.
I can't wait for them to move within tens or units of light years, that'd be marvellous don't you think?
Not until you are awakened to the fact that these theories about nature are mostly premised on conjectures, obfuscations, delusions self-aggradisement, and what not; will you achieve enlightenment and catharsis and bliss and spirituality.
|Re: Understanding The Verse Of "Beating One's Wife" by sarahade(f): 3:49pm On Jun 16, 2017|
Women have suffered and we shall suffer no more.
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