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Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by Deicide: 5:41pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
LightandDarkness:Ok i see |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by spacetacular(f): 5:55pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
CatfishBilly: And I have shown you that Prayer cannot be experimented upon. So the Templeton foundation prayer experiment isn't evidence as its impersonal to you. Below is an analysis of the experiment. "The problem with the Templeton prayer study was based in the hypothesis itself: if we pray for someone then God will intervene in some supernatural way to restore a person’s health. No doubt this is a wonderful concept, but it eliminates the truth about the subject being studied. In the same way that the Prosperity Gospel cult has undercut the basis of Christian belief, this study is based on a lie. Somehow people have come up with this idea that if we ask for something then we can obligate God to deliver. What kind of God would he be if we were able to say just the right words or preform just the right action that would somehow get God’s attention and thus getting a desired result? This concept makes God not God at all, but rather some cosmic vending machine or light switch In John chapter 3 Jesus describes to a religious leader, Nicodemus, the nature and action of God. “The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going.” This makes the scientific study more akin to the study of psychology. If God is a volitional being, then we cannot expect that God will perform based on a regular standard and without fail. In essence this study was not about prayer at all, but about the effect of positive words and their impact on a person’s health. This is not to deny the power that abides in prayer, but it does stand in the face of a fallacy. Prayer is not about getting our goodies from God, but it is about trusting God to do what is best. It is about building a relationship and leaning on the truth that comes from that relationship. This study would be just as flawed if it were conducted on child-parent relationships and we expected that the child would receive everything she asked her parents for. No doubt we would think very poorly of a parent who did that and it would be no stretch to expect that the child would be a lazy, fat brat. No doubt we would be in quite a big mess if God also fulfilled every request to our liking. It frankly gives me much satisfaction that this study was a failure, because it strengthens my trust in a God that cannot be contained". So you see what you say drew you away from God drew another to God in a much stronger way. Carefully read the observation again. 3 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by hopefulLandlord: 6:00pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
spacetacular: that would tally totally with what Jesus said many times in the new testament but reality made you think such would be absurd, you're tailoring it with reality in order to make some sense out of it eg, what if every Christian with faith gets everything they ask for in prayer? what if that's how reality is? would you turn around and talk about how its not supposed to be like that and your god is a vending machine? |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by Image123(m): 6:02pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
JackBizzle: This is nonsense as usual. It's like saying you want to balance mathematics with philosophy or psychology, not a very smart proposal. They're not equations needing balance. Nature, truth, belief and emotion is not necessarily mathematical or calculation or equivalent. They're different realms of the same life, not competing with the other. 1. The realm of the miraculous is not science neither is it subject to science and laboratory. 2. From God, duh. Man is created in His image, chromosomes are not scarce in Heaven, He made them remember? 3. Geology doesn't claim that there must be earth under any body of water, what nonsense are you saying again? BTW, there's no such claim in Genesis. 4. Divine intervention, duh. Did they claim science? It's science that is yet to find cure, not God. Understand that. 5. Isn't it foolishness to conclude it's such a waste when you've never stepped out of your earthly bedroom as usual? The world is still celebrating landing on the moon, while some boy who is likely looking for admission to school concludes that the universe is a waste? Indeed, folly is associated. 1 Like |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by CatfishBilly: 6:06pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
spacetacular:Jesus actually presented himself as a cosmic vending machine. The new testament is littered with passages to that effect. Unless you're choosing not to look at it from that angle, then that would firmly be your choice, not what the scriptures say. 1 Like |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by spacetacular(f): 6:07pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord: Sorry that was not what Jesus implied. Jesus focused on RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD! Build it, Love Him, Trust Him, Desire HIS will, Be Led by HIS Spirit etc. Prayer should come from that relationship. In the Lords Prayer notice it began with WORDS OF RELATIONSHIP. " Our Father which art in Heaven, Hallowed be they name " Then it moved to trusting God and His will. " Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven" Those preceded personal needs and desires. "Give us this day our daily bread..... " The focus of Jesus in Prayer was on RELATIONSHIP. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by spacetacular(f): 6:08pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
CatfishBilly: Read above. |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by hopefulLandlord: 6:14pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
spacetacular:And Jesus answered and said to them, “Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ it will happen. “And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.” (Matthew 21:21-22) Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:19-20) Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. (Mark 11:24-25) And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. (John 14:13-14) With all these passages claiming that if they have even the smallest amount of faith (Matthew 17:20 For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.)then whatever you ask for in prayer will be granted the above verses are very clear, what you are doing now is adding some condition and even saying it won't be right if those verses were true cuz it would make your god a vending machine I'm now asking if you're in an alternate universe where everything Christians ask for comes to pass as said in the above verses, would you think it shouldn't be like that? would you therefore regard your god as vending machine or some stupid parent like you errr the author did in your copied post? BTW, why should you pray if there's a will of god that trumps all Prayers? 3 Likes |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by CatfishBilly: 6:16pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
spacetacular:So, compare that to these But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.” So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. Matthew 17:12, 20 NKJV Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:19-20) Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. (Mark 11:24-25) These totally presented Jesus as a cosmic vending machine. How do you reconcile? 1 Like |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by spacetacular(f): 6:22pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord: Sorry but you are putting the cart before the horse. The Disciples asked him to teach them how to pray and he deliberately worded THE LORDS PRAYER that way so they would know the FOUNDATION of prayer. Faith isn't the foundation. The foundation is relationship. This is why the Bible says FAITH WITHOUT WORKS (RELATIONSHIP) IS DEAD! what are the works or relationship? How can I say I love God whom I have not seen when I do not love the people I see. What are the works or relationship? 1st Corinthians 13 Vs 1- 8 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. There are so many to point at but the summary of them all is RELATIONSHIP with God first before all else. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by hopefulLandlord: 6:25pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
spacetacular: I don't like debating dishonest points, so "works" is now "relationship" okay, I'm done |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by Image123(m): 6:28pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
CatfishBilly: i don't exactly know what a cosmic vending machine is, but I remember two disciples coming to Jesus with their mother and making a request which He didn't grant. Remember that and reconcile. |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by spacetacular(f): 6:32pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
hopefulLandlord: Do you see why your natural mind cannot fathom the things of the spirit? Works is LOVE IN ACTION. love in action is RELATIONSHIP when the Bible talks about WORKS it's referring to acts of RIGHTEOUSNESS. Can a man be righteous without the Lifestyle of Jesus being in Him? What was the lifestyle of Jesus? Acts 10 Vs 38 "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good....." He went about DOING GOOD (that is works and relationship). 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by Nobody: 7:04pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
Yahoo! I can finally comment. To hell with antispam. Hahahahaha. JackBizzle has given up on his thread after someone successfully painted it with stupidity. I wonder how CatfishBilly could help not being irritated in the face of such infuriating dishonesty. Although hopeFulLanlord's disgust is pretty obvious. Nice debate with the 'smart' Christian. I'd rather troll than get engrossed in a debate with a moron_. The latter is irritating and annoying. The former is fun and pleasurable. 1 Like |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by Joshthefirst(m): 7:25pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
TLuzzie:I don't think anyone cares whether you troll or debate that much. You can keep doing what makes you feel better. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by Joshthefirst(m): 7:25pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
sonofluc1fer: |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by Joshthefirst(m): 7:29pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
CatfishBilly:objectivity of course, when dealing with scientific facts. the templeton study is incoherent in my opinion, because prayer is not readily measureable and very subjective. there are different kinds of prayer. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by Nobody: 7:38pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
Joshthefirst:And I don't think I called for your attention. Whatever I post here is no concern of yours. Vamoose. |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by sonofluc1fer: 7:43pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
Joshthefirst:If its readily measurable, how can you say it works? How do you know your prayers work? That would be impossible to know. You really don't know if prayer works or not. But one thing is for sure.. Prayer feels good. Whether it works doesnt really matter, does it? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by Amberon11: 7:45pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
What overreaction are you talking about? "Sky daddy" is a derogatory remark you atheists make at God all the time and you know it isn't a joke. No evidence for a God? First prove that there isn't one. JackBizzle: |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by Joshthefirst(m): 8:03pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
sonofluc1fer:note the word 'readily'. and i was speaking in a scale pertaining to the research. prayer works for me. ive had countless prayers answered. |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by sonofluc1fer: 8:05pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
Dp.. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by sonofluc1fer: 8:20pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
Joshthefirst:Same here, Bro. One day, I realised I was the one doing the answering, not a dead Jew. 7 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by JackBizzle: 11:11pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
Amberon11: Swerve. You just want to argue for argument sake. If "sky daddy" is offending you, grow up. |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by Amberon11: 11:18pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
Its obvious you're incorrigible. You are insulting someone and telling them not to be upset. Rip to logical reasoning. If anyone needs growing up, it is you. JackBizzle: 1 Like |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by JackBizzle: 11:48pm On Jul 07, 2017 |
Amberon11: Says the little child that needs a sky daddy. |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by Image123(m): 1:10am On Jul 08, 2017 |
sonofluc1fer: Of course it does, serious people more brilliant and accomplished than you would ever be don't spend hours daily doing unimportant things that don't matter. Do they? 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by sonofluc1fer: 1:13am On Jul 08, 2017 |
Image123:Hi hater. Bye hater. |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by Amberon11: 2:25am On Jul 08, 2017 |
Only weak immature toddlers can't converse intellectually without throwing tantrums. Receive sense! And goodnight too JackBizzle: |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by CatfishBilly: 7:52am On Jul 08, 2017 |
Image123: 1 Like 1 Share
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Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by Nobody: 8:07am On Jul 08, 2017 |
Lol...... Sky daddy is an 'insult'. It makes them angry. 1 Like |
Re: Christian Doctors And Science Students (science Vs Religion) by Nobody: 8:29am On Jul 08, 2017 |
Joshthefirst:Have you ever heard of people who put faith healing over medical science because they believe in the efficacy of prayer and have absolute faith in it, as demanded by Jesus? Do you know what tends to be the end result? Many Christian parents have KILLED their babies because they trust Jesus that their prayers will work, and as a Christian you can't reprimand them for this behaviour since they simply followed the teachings of your religion, which you've been trying to deny here, because you know that it is HARMFUL bullsh!t! Science and Religion may be seperate like you said, but what happens when they CLASH? As a Christian doctor (to be), whose side will you take? That of science or religion? This is the entire thrust of JackBizzle's challenge. He merely gave those questions in page 1 to make you catch a glimpse of what he's getting at. Those questions were NOT the main thing. But some Spacetacular was 'too smart' to get the crux of the thread, and was busy jumping around painting the whole place in reeking blood as she suffers menstrual cramps, accusing everyone of illogic, only to end up exhibiting gross dishonesty in her 'debate' with CatfishBilly. Again, I ask, whose side do you take when Science and religion CLASH? To the best of my knowledge, Science has ALWAYS emerged victorious whenever such happens. 1 Like |
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