Was Jesus Christ Crucified? - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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Was Christ Crucified? / DEBATE: Swere Josh Mcdowell And Ahmed Deedat, TOPIC: Was Christ Crucified? / Was Jesus Christ Crucified On A Friday? (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by naijacutee(f): 8:38pm On Feb 11, 2007 |
babs787: Ok, I will read your post. Here is how your argument started. " Verdict of Barnabas This gospel of Barnabas supports the theory of substitution. . . . . .Babyosis, I even asked you the reason for your not quoting from the gospel of barnabas, because he was alive and witnesses jesus’ teachings and also according to the bible, Barnabas: was an apostle (Acts 14v14), full of Holy Ghost (Act 11v24), Prophet (Acts 13v1), performers of miracles (Acts 15v21) I'm sorry but we are not on common ground. Your reference point always comes back to this "Gospel of Barnabas" but this book is so obviously flawed as it appears to have been maliciously written. It contradicts both Christianity and Islam as it was obviously intended to confuse. Why would I want to defend my religion against that book? Give me another reference point, or analyse the Bible facts and present your case then we can go further. Besides the purported author of this book is in no way related to the Barnabas in the book of Acts. Neither is he in any way related to the Barnabas who wrote the Epistle of Barnabas as their writings oppose each other. (See : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Barnabas) Cheers! |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 12:07pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
@naijacutee, thanks for the wonderful post. I started my argument with "doubt from the beginning" mentioning those that didnt support the crucifixion in which I included GoB. The reason for including the gospel of Barnabas is that babyosis posted some historical data and I asked her the reason for her non-inclusion of the gospel of Barnabas since his name appeared in the bible and KAG told me that no one would believe in GoB and I moved on. When I made the statement, I never repeated it but went straight to another stage where I started with "where do we begin", representing the main topic and I never asked questions from GoB. All the first 6 questions from the first post and the last questions from subsequent posts have been asked from New Testament. You would have noticed from my post so far that no question out of the first 6 questions has been so far asked from the gospel of barnabas, all have been from the New Testament even my last questions never rested on GoB. Thanks very much for the understanding. Stay Blessed @all, Why are you trying to divert the thread to that of GoB? My questions have never been on GoB but from the New Testament. I used that as the introduction to my thread. Cheers |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by lafile(m): 1:02pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
250 posts later this 787 never still make sense. (maybe his 787th post will) |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 1:41pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
@lafile, So the above post never made sense to you? hmmmmmmmm |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 2:45pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
@babs787, babs787: Maybe because you did not base your arguments on the NT, but used the GoB (that has been discredited by both Muslims and Christians) as a starting point. It would be the same as starting out with Salman Rushdie's epic, and working backwards into the Qur'an for suggestive lines. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by combatant: 3:37pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
@lafile and Shahan, @lafle, It will never make sense to you because the issue is your "ikoko obe" on which the foundation of christianity is laid. The guy has explained and re-explained that he didnt base his argument on GoB yet you still went about bringing the issue of GoB. Leave the GoB aside and lets move on, afterall the guy has been asking questions on NT in which you shahan claimed that he has not been quoting from. I wouldnt be suprised if you come up with another thread saying that you have answered his questions but none of his questions from NT has never been given attention to nor answered but pretending never to have seen his questions from NT but hiding under the guise of GoB So, forget the GoB and lets move on. Peace |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 4:01pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
@combatant, combatant: I don't remember engaging issues with you before now, so you can either help your case or worsen it if you're a stranger to intelligence. If someone was never sure about a document, why start off with it and try to weave it back to the New Testament? Is it that your summations are now found to be weaker than the spider webs you've spun, and that's why you came back with this tattered excuse to "forget the GoB and lets move on"? As you can see, I'm least in the mood for your decayed drool. Try not taking it any further than this, unless you do have something more intelligent to say. combatant: And your job description is. . .?? How many times have replies been made to blabs787's posts and he came back with the dishonest claim that we "ignored" his questions? You could as well amuse away your time on such drivel if you also can't read posts. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by GOK: 4:03pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
We have been facing continuous harassment from these christians claiming that jesus only is the saviour. They even went to the extent of telling us that the only way we can have salvation is through the blood atonement of jesus christ, that one should believe that he was crucified and shed his blood on the cross of calvary but here they are, they cant defend their sayings. This is a very good thread. They have been parabulating laying emphasis on GoB pretending as if they didnt see the questions thrown an them. If a person is saying something is red, he should be able to defend it and answer all the questions being asked on the same subject, but here they are, I never blame them because they have been relying on the sayings of Paul not knowing that this Paul claimed that the death and risen up of jesus was according to his own scriptures: 1st Corinthians 15v3-4: for I delivered to you first of all that which I ALSO RECEIVED, that Christ died for our sins according to the SCRIPTURES. And that he was buried and that he rose again the third day according to the SCRIPTURES. One wonder what scriptures this self-appointed thirteenth disciples is referring to. Thank God he has provided the answer. 2nd timothy 2v8: remember that jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my GOSPEL. cunny people |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by GOK: 4:10pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
@Shahan, If you care to know, we know you christians very well, claiming that answers have been supplied in all threads but always go other way. Am even less concerned about other threads but this particular one in which its very glaring that you havent answer the questions. He has been saying that he has been bringing out questions from your bible. So pls , answer the questions and if you do, we will know that you have answered him this time and forget the barnabas stuff. hope you grab, leave GoB alone and carry go. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by mrpataki(m): 4:42pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
For the first time, I will contribute here, it is a shame when dubious and spurious minded fellows come here and portray their stupidity. I wont be suprised if GOK and combatant are the same person. Mr 2posts each. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 5:04pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
shahan, Am not surprised How many times have replies been made to blabs787's posts and he came back with the dishonest claim that we "ignored" his questions? You could as well amuse away your time on such drivel if you also can't read posts. Are you referring to answer you provided on the issue of Muhammed (saw) when i asked you to tell if the prophet in any way related to Abu Bakr and also if Aisha related to the prophet? Are you referring to the issue when i asked you to tell me if the prophesy of the 2nd coming materialised or not? Are you referring to the answers supplied when I asked you questions on the Jesus dying for your sin? Are you referring to answers supplied when I asked you if jesus was sent to the whole world or to the jews alone. etc Are you referring to when i posted thread on the divinity of Jesus? Here too answers have been supplied abi but probably ignored. madam, you are no match for BABATUNDE You preached the above doctrine but couldnt defend rather you resorted to l playing hide and seek laying empahsis on the Gospel of Barnabas. HERE, my questions has so far been on NT but not on GoB. I know for sure If we are have been disscusing other things, you would have posted many irrelevant bible quotes here but here you are lost, forgetting that babs has most of their versions. Even your Pope or Pastors will not be able to answer, I have dealth with those stronger in faith than you. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 5:05pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
@GOK, Since this is your first post, I would simply assume that you haven't read issues in other threads before posting the above. GOK: How many questions have been asked already about Muhammad's claims to be a prophet, and the polytheism that exists in the Qur'an - and no Muslim has been able to offer satisfactory answers? Rather, your apologists will return with ignorance or falsehood engineered from heaven knows where. GOK: The pretences are actually coming from your camp. I just would like to learn something from you: why start off with the GoB and weave it back to the NT knowing quite well that it has been discredited by both Muslims and Christians? As for the answers to some of the other questions you can't read, please go through again patiently and see indeed that they were not "ignored". GOK: Preach that to your camp who have continued to evade questions offered. GOK: We really feel sorry for, and do not blame you - since it is only Paul you can see. Here, help yourself with these ones you missed: Luke 24:34 - "Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon." Mark 16:12 - "After that He appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country." John 20:19 - "Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you." Luk 24:36-43 >> "And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And He said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.And when He had thus spoken, He shewed them His hands and His feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, He said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And He took it, and did eat before them" Act 10:39-41 ~~ "And we are witnesses of all things which He did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. In none of the above texts was Paul mentioned among the eyewitnesses of Jesus' resurrection. GOK: The Scriptures you're wondering about are the same ones that Muhammad never included in the Qur'an for you chaps to see the truth and be saved. Jesus Himself taught His disciples about His death and resurrection from the Old Testament scriptures - [b]Luke 24:44-48 >> "And He said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things." "The Scriptures" which Paul mentioned in I Corinthians 15:3-4 is commonly understood to be the Old Testament - in just the same way that Jesus taught His disciples in Luke 24:44-48. Some of the specific mention of Jesus' death and resurrection can be found in ISAIAH 53 and ZACHARIAH 12:10, besides the Psalms of David. ISAIAH 53 (please read the whole chapter) "Therefore will I divide Him a portion with the great, and He shall divide the spoil with the strong; because He hath poured out His soul unto death: and He was numbered with the transgressors; and He bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors" (vs.12) ZACHARIAH 12:10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon Me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for Him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for Him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." PSALM 68:18 (The Resurrestion of Christ) "Thou hast ascended on high, Thou hast led captivity captive: Thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them." Have you ever wondered why Muhammad never mentioned ISAIAH and ZACHARIAH - the same prophets that Jesus made reference to? The answer is simple: Muhammad knew that if he made the slightest reference to them, Muslims would be saved by trusting in Jesus Christ as the Son of God (Psalm 2:12)! GOK: When Paul speaks of "my GOSPEL", it is clear that he did not found Christianity - that was rather his perculiar expression of his apostleship. In other verses, the same Paul called it the "the gospel of God" (Rom. 1:1 & 15:16); "the gospel of His [God's] Son" (Rom. 1:9); "the gospel of Christ" (Rom. 1:16); or "our gospel" (I Thes. 1:5); "the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" (II Thes. 1:  ; and "the glorious gospel of the blessed God" (I Tim. 1:11).If Paul was preaching his own made-up Gospel, the other apostles would have witstood him to the face. Rather, this is what Peter had to say about him: "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you" (II Pet. 3:15). GOK: A good self-description of your Muslim apologists. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 5:06pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
@mrpataki, mrpataki: You're not far fromthe truth - that has become the registered trade-mark of their antics. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by mrpataki(m): 5:16pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
Shahan, Hi been a while now. How are you? Are you on YIM at the moment? May the Lord continually bless us all as we labor in his vineyard. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 5:19pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
@GOK, GOK: And if you care to know, this is not the first time I'm dealing with dribbling Muslims like your team, mr. 2 post. GOK: I'm hardly surprised that you would be less concerned about other threads because the answer is there whenever you care to swallow your pride and go take a peep. GOK: Which have been dealt with to a great extent - and he comes back denying the answers under the rascally excuse that they were "IGNORED". I hope you didn't go to the same night school?? GOK: My style has always been to offer answers - go through my threads and you will see. Even just above, I have offered answers to yours in hope that you won't tow the same cheap lies of blabbling out 787 lies as he does. As for the GoB/barnabas stuff, what do you want me to answer to when the premise is already flawed? Please understand this, at the risk of repeating myself - one cannot weave a flawed document back into the Bible and pretend that they have germane questions. This tired-out antics is characteristic of chaps whose IQ is on the reverse slope, and it is not worth the humour of Ikorodu dust. GOK: I grab, my dear - and if you take a look just above, you'll see my answers to yours. Tara!  |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 5:21pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
@mrpataki, mrpataki: How bodi? Seen yours but as I only get to play with my friend's PC out here, it's difficult chatting online for now until I step back to naija. Will email you soon. Cheers and God bless. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by mrpataki(m): 5:46pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
@ Shahan, Iight miss. Expecting it soon. Take care all the best. Mail you too soon. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 6:10pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
@blabs787, babs787: If you're soliciting answers from me, at least be civil and honest enough to admit that answers were offered - even though you may disagree with them. To come crying hoo-ha about your questions having being "IGNORED" is not worth the effort wasted on your dishonesty. 1. Twelve questions posed - all answered point-by-point with Biblical texts in Did Jesus For Our Sin? Which Sin?. 2. My answers to your questions on the authorship of Deuteronomy: The Second Coming of Jesus Christ and here also. 3. My answer to your allegations and accusations of lies and stealing against Jesus in The Second coming of Jesus Christ. 4. My thoughts on the deity/divinity of Jesus Christ from the Bible in these threads: Who Was Jesus Before He Became Man?. Is Jesus God?; and again in this same thread. . . . and unless you deliberately chose not to read posts, I don't see why just for your overblown pride it would be necessary for me to repeat myself on that. babs787: There's just a word we use for simpletons who congratulate themselves like you - cheap! babs787: I haven't stopped laughing at your hilarity. A simple question for you: since the Qur'an is without error, how come Muslims never agree among themselves so that there are over 10 English translations being circulated - all not agreed as to who renders what best? And it only makes me laugh the more when asked as to why the descripancies. A typical Muslim will drool with saliva at the corners stating that: ". . . any translation of the Qur'an immediately ceases to be the literal word of Allah, and hence cannot be equated with the Qur'an in its original Arabic form." see it here. So, what then have you guys been reading in Englsih if the Qur'an ceases to be the word of Allah when it is translated? That is why all the pretences in the Islamic world about reading the Qur'an as 'God's word' is cosmetic. No serious minded person ever bothers with any translation of the Qur'an as it then becomes the word of someone else and not of Allah! |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by Nobody: 7:43pm On Feb 12, 2007 |
Kag,your opinions are just that,your personal opinions,no more no less and you are certainly entitled to them. Ladies and gents,are you guys beside yourselves as I am oftentimes reading from babs. He asked if Jesus was crucified,I asked him for his best evidence,he copied down a phrase that he only spent 3 hours on the cross and was laid not buried in a tomb and when asked if he then admits that Christ was on the cross and ended up at a tomb,he lashes out out of asking a zillion questions with links and crying that his questions are unanswered. babs,if most people here are like me with limited time for pleasure,no one has the time to read through your elaborate copied posts. I glance through them and move on when I don't see answers to questions. Again what is your evidence(besides your friend barnabas) that Christ was not crucified I do not have time for your long garbled unrelated texts. and please try to stick to the subject,I know it may be hard to do without ritalin. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 11:46am On Feb 13, 2007 |
Let me start with babyosis @babyosis, [b]Question 1 Since Jesus came to die on the cross, it means that he is very aware of the contract. If so, why was Judas named a traitor for the fact it has been arranged that he would die? Question 2 Why did he charge them to buy sword. Did I hear someone saying that one of his disciples that raised sword against the Romans was rebuked? Well, am still coming to that but the question now, why did he charge them to buy sword? Question 3 a. why did they all go to Gethsemane? To pray? b. Could they not have prayed in the upper room? c. Why did he go with his disciples to pray when only him can do the prayer afterall they didn’t pray with him but watched. Question 4 Where is he taking Peter, john and james now? Further into the garden. Why did he take them further into the garden Question 5 a. Why did he pray to the extent of sweating blood. b. what was the prayer for since he came to die. Question 6 a. What did the angel of God came to strengthen him for? b. Did he come to increase his doubts or fear? c. To multiply his anxieties d. Did the angel come to tell him that God had forsaken him in his disbelief? Where in the above does the issue of GoB comes in? Do the questions look like those being lifted from the GoB? I could remember when i first posted the above, you told me to give you reasons and i posted the below. 1. why did mary go to the tomb? 2. why was the stone removed and why were the winding sheets found unwind? 3. why did mary think jesus as a gardener? do resurrected bodies look like gardeners? 4. what does mary wanted to do with a decomposing body? 5. can she alone carry a dead body? 6. what was the sign of jonah Do the above relate with the GoB? Are they not questions from the NT? I still ignored, continued with my write and came with other questions, still from the NT: 1. What clinical instrument was used in detecting and certifying him dead (because he wasnt touch nor his pulse felt)? 2. The instant coming out of blood and water showed that he was alive and if not, why the coming out of blood and water from dead body.[/b] Every question was asked based on verses lifted from the NT. Do the above too relate with GoB? Common be honest. None of the questions listed above was from GoB, all were lifted from NT. I concluded in my last write up that if you still hold on to the claim that he was crucified by knocking out the above, that i would still proceed to the next stage in the order questions were arranged up. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 11:53am On Feb 13, 2007 |
Let me start with babyosis @babyosis, [b][b]Question 1 Since Jesus came to die on the cross, it means that he is very aware of the contract. If so, why was Judas named a traitor for the fact it has been arranged that he would die? Question 2 Why did he charge them to buy sword. Did I hear someone saying that one of his disciples that raised sword against the Romans was rebuked? Well, am still coming to that but the question now, why did he charge them to buy sword? Question 3 a. why did they all go to Gethsemane? To pray? b. Could they not have prayed in the upper room? c. Why did he go with his disciples to pray when only him can do the prayer afterall they didn’t pray with him but watched. Question 4 Where is he taking Peter, john and james now? Further into the garden. Why did he take them further into the garden Question 5 a. Why did he pray to the extent of sweating blood. b. what was the prayer for since he came to die. Question 6 a. What did the angel of God came to strengthen him for? b. Did he come to increase his doubts or fear? c. To multiply his anxieties d. Did the angel come to tell him that God had forsaken him in his disbelief?[/b] Where in the above does the issue of GoB comes in? Do the questions look like those being lifted from the GoB? I could remember when i first posted the above, you told me to give you reasons and i posted the below. 1. why did mary go to the tomb? 2. why was the stone removed and why were the winding sheets found unwind? 3. why did mary think jesus as a gardener? do resurrected bodies look like gardeners? 4. what does mary wanted to do with a decomposing body? 5. can she alone carry a dead body? 6. what was the sign of jonah Do the above relate with the GoB? Are they not questions from the NT? I still ignored, continued with my write and came with other questions, still from the NT: 1. What clinical instrument was used in detecting and certifying him dead (because he wasnt touch nor his pulse felt)? 2. The instant coming out of blood and water showed that he was alive and if not, why the coming out of blood and water from dead body. Every question was asked based on verses lifted from the NT. Do the above too relate with GoB? Common be honest. None of the questions listed above was from GoB, all were lifted from NT. I concluded in my last write up that if you still hold on to the claim that he was crucified by knocking out the above, that i would still proceed to the next stage in the order questions were arranged up. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 12:01pm On Feb 13, 2007 |
@babyosis, Also, did you read my first evidence showing that he did not die on the cross? |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 2:20pm On Feb 13, 2007 |
@Shahan, Let me start from here with you 1[b]. Twelve questions posed - all answered point-by-point with Biblical texts in Did Jesus For Our Sin? Which Sin?.[/b] this is just one out of the twelve questions [b] if jesus actually came to die for your sin , and that salvation lies in his blood sacrifice, why did he preached repentance in mathew 4v17[/b] Shahan, when I threw the question at you, I expected you to give me the reason why Jesus preached to them to repent as in mathew 4v17 not mentioning blood sacrifice because according to Paul,'no sins can be forgiven unless blood is offered'. But here, Jesus in his preaching did not say anything pertaining to blood sacrifice but only preached repentance. You posted this ]Jesus: "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." [Luke 13:3] Still supporting my question above You gave me the below verse also Heb. 9:22 "The Law says that almost everything must be sprinkled with blood, and no sins can be forgiven unless blood is offered."[/b] To buttress my point that blood sacrifice is not needed for salvation, lets read mathew 19v16-19: and behold one came and said unto him, Good master, 'what good thing must I do that I may have eternal life? and Jesus said unto him, why callest me good? There is no one good but one, that is, God, but if thou will enter into life (paradise), keep the commandments. He said unto him, which? Jesus said, thou shall do no murder, thou shall not bear false witness, honour thy father and mother and thou shall love thy neighbour as theyself. No where blood atonement was mentioned during Jesus' era. Hope you understood? also another question if jesus came to die, why is he afraid of death in john 11v53: then from that day forth, they took counsel togetherr to put him to death. Jesus therefore walked no more in openly among the jews but went unto a country near to the wilderness, into a city called ephraim and there continued with his disciples.[/b] you responded that The verse is 54 (not 53), and it does not teach that Jesus was afraid of death. Other verses show that He gave Himself willingly to death in view of the resurrection: Since you said he wasnt afraid of death, i told you to read the below verse Mathew 26v37-39: …. And he began to be sorrowful and very depressed. Then said he unto them,’my soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even unto death….’ And he went a little farther and fell on his face (just like muslims) and prayed saying, ‘ o my father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me nevertheless, not as I will but as thou wilt. 2. My answers to your questions on the authorship of Deuteronomy: The Second Coming of Jesus Christ and here also. I gave you instances that he couldnt have written the last chapter by himself as a result of these: 1. He was 120 years old WHEN HE DIED 2. , and he (God Almighty) BURIED HIM (Moses), 3. , and there arose not a prophet SINCE in Israel like unto Moses[/b] 3. My answer to your allegations and accusations of lies and stealing against Jesus in The Second coming of Jesus Christ. Here, you levelled allegation that my Prophet committed Incest with Aisha and I asked you to tell me 1. If Abu Bakr and the Holy Prophet relate 2. If Aisha and the Holy Prophet relate Secondly, I also asked you if the 2nd Coming of Jesus as being said by him materialised? Is Jesus God?; and again in this same thread. Here I still maintain that Jesus is quite different from God. God sent Jesus. Now to the issue at hand. Luk 24:36-43 >> "And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And He said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.And when He had thus spoken, He shewed them His hands and His feet. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, He said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And He took it, and did eat before them" Never mind, dont rush yourself. Am still coming to the above. You will still have to tell me: what Jesus was trying to proof when he showed them his hands and feet. "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I myself" What has demonstration of hands and feet got to do with resurrection? Do resurrected body carry any mark live the living? Jesus tried explaining to his disciples in a very clear term that ‘it is I myself (meaning not spirit)' For a spirit has “no flesh and bones as you see me have”. This is a self evident truth. Jesus was telling them that a spirit has no flesh and bones meaning that he was alive. Still the same old Jesus. Shahan, why did jesus need to point out the above? It is simply because his disciples were thinking that he had returned from the dead, that he had been resurrected and if so he would be in a spiritual form – a spirit. Jesus was telling them that he was not a spirit (resurrected body) but a living person. Now if say: “I have flesh and bones”, it means I am not a spirit but human being but if I say, “I have no flesh and bones”. What does that mean to you?. It means that I am a spirit. So also the message Jesus was trying to pass across to them that, “It is I myself and that I have flesh and bones, I am alive. Jesus was telling his disciples, when he said, “behold my hands and feet” that the body he wanted them to see, feel and touch was neither a spiritualised body, a metamorphosed body nor a resurrected body because a resurrected body becomes spiritualised, they are equal to angels. It is quite impossible to touch a spirit. And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, He said unto them, Have ye here any meat? And they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And He took it, and did eat before them"[/b] In order for them to believe him, he said, “Have ye here any meat”? and they gave him a broiled fish and of a honey comb and he took it and did eat before them. Why did he do the above. Was it to prove that he resurrected or that he was still his old self? It is know that dead body are spiritualised body and are equal to angels. They do not eat and drink like the living. Shahan, If you still disagree based on the above explanation that still, he died on the cross, let me know. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 2:48pm On Feb 13, 2007 |
@blabs787, babs787: You did not throw any questions at me; rather, you addressed them to babyosisi - and I offered those answers to quell your complaints about people "IGNORING" your questions. You have a serious problem reading posts, and then claiming that your questions were "IGNORED". That was what those links were inserted to point out - that the claim of "ignoring" your questions is simply dishonest. And since you repeatedly lacked the manners or civility to admit that answers were offered (though you might have disagreed), I simply didn't want to waste time on you any further. If you took that as a long sought break to celebrate your so-called being "too-much", then I admitted you were being cheap. When you cure yourself of your blabbings and seek an educated debate, I'm always available. babs787: I have read and noted all the fresh questions in your post above; but like I said, my answers in subsequent posts will depend on whether or not you keep up dishonest claims about being "IGNORED." Let me know which is best for you. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 4:14pm On Feb 13, 2007 |
@shahan, I just couldnt help laughing at your last post. You know what , I do enjoy your post a lot. When you see that a certain question looks very tough, you quickly resorted to "you have answered him but he keep saying that they have been IGNORING his questions" or "I have been told never to reply your post again" or better still "When you cure yourself of your blabbings and seek an educated debate". .You still went ahead mentioning the word "IGNORED" when nothing of such has been mentioned here.A very funny being. Quote from: babs787 on Today at 02:20:45 PM Shahan, when I threw the question at you, I expected you to give me the reason why Jesus preached to them to repent as in mathew 4v17 You did not throw any questions at me; rather, you addressed them to babyosisi - and I offered those answers to quell your complaints about people "IGNORING" your questions. You have a serious problem reading posts, and then claiming that your questions were "IGNORED". That was what those links were inserted to point out - that the claim of "ignoring" your questions is simply dishonest. Are those answers not from you? I quoted your response to my questions above and I never mentioned "IGNORED". So you can see that you have both visual and comprehension problem more than I do. I tried simplifying my last post but you still went ahead with the same word "IGNORED" And since you repeatedly lacked the manners or civility to admit that answers were offered (though you might have disagreed), I simply didn't want to waste time on you any further. If you took that as a long sought break to celebrate your so-called being "too-much", then I admitted you were being cheap. Still the same crap!! Was anything like "IGNORING" your post ever mentioned in my last post? Am very sure you are having a very dull vision and not comprehension problem because if not, you would have read my last post that nothing of such was mentioned. When you cure yourself of your blabbings and seek an educated debate, I'm always available. There she go again. Lets take it that you have provided 100% response to my questions so far on this thread, so lets move on. How about that?  Quote from: babs787 on Today at 02:20:45 PM Shahan, why did jesus need to point out the above? - - - - Shahan, If you still disagree based on the above explanation that still, he died on the cross, let me know. I have read and noted all the fresh questions in your post above; but like I said, my answers in subsequent posts will depend on whether or not you keep up dishonest claims about being "IGNORED." Let me know which is best for you. Thanks for acknowledging seeing my questions and not hiding under the guise of GoB. So let the answers keep pouring in and no "IGNORING" this time. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by lefac(m): 5:29pm On Feb 13, 2007 |
babs787 I have read many of ur posts and I feel u lack understanding. Ur question does not really deserve an answer but u need to look around u and see the truth. Many have confessed to the greatness of Jesus and even ur Koran have attested to it but u still refuse to believe. Let us leave aside the Bible and Koran and think logically, someone come to u and tells u that by calling a name (Jesus) he/she is cured. what does that tell u? There is power in that name. There have been many or countless evidences to the power of Christ, but u choose not to believe, u need to read the Bible with an open mind devoid of looking for lapses and then u will see the greatness of the word of God. I have read the Koran in my quest to finding the truth, but have come to realize that Jesus is the truth, for the Koran to acknowledge His greatness was enough to tell u that He is GREAT. But how can u believe that a book was sent down by God to man without being doctored by Muhammad. Is the god written in the Koran be so inept that He will contradict himself over and over. God's word are final and once, His word must manifest in the way we do things. Our relationship with fellow men even if they are unbelievers. Our actions must be based on love, kindness to others. Ur path to success with start today if u believe that Jesus died and rose for, forget all this scholarly stuff that u r trying 2 prove cos some of us have been there and have found the truth (Jesus) |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by choongtin(f): 5:34pm On Feb 13, 2007 |
what a question he was oooooh dnt get it twisted |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 5:39pm On Feb 13, 2007 |
@blabs787, babs787: One more confirmation that you're a cheap noise maker. What in all your R-IQ has been difficult to answer? You just couldn't resist the temptation to self-congratulate your under-achievements, could you? In case you missed it, here again: "When you cure yourself of your blabbings and seek an educated debate, I'm always available." lefac: One more confirmation among many. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by Nobody: 6:27pm On Feb 13, 2007 |
babs again signs and symptoms of hyperactivity disorder exist in all your posts,like a fleeting freight train with neither a driver nor a conductor. You claim to have evidence that Christ was not crucified why are you in a hurry to introduce other unrelated stories when you're yet to tackle the first one.Take a deep breathe,you have time and no one is asking you to hurry. Please for the last time before I get off the thread for good, What is your evidence that Jesus was not crucified [/b]and give us a chance to respond. If you will not answer this question which is the main purpose of your thread,I have no reason to continue in this discussion. We will delve into your other pasted areas one after the other,only if you can be calm and collected. [b]This is my final attempt to help you come at a grown up discussion with a mature disposition. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 7:36pm On Feb 13, 2007 |
babyosisi: Perhaps the grammar there will prove too tough for his IQ as 'calm' and 'mature' never seem to be part of his dictionary. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by Nobody: 11:12pm On Feb 13, 2007 |
babs787: Really Adedibu's style of English! And please Christians shut this guy up. Answer his questions ok? This guy has the right to post trash in here well it's just that Church has seen enough of the deceptions, Like the Mother of God, the Trinity, Hell Fire and other things. but saying that Jesus the Christ didnt resurrect and ascend into Heaven is a blantant and very stupid joke. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 12:20pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
@babaearly, The name fit you perfectly. Never mind, we will see as we move on. And please Christians shut this guy's up. Answer his questions ok? No problem, it will be highly appreciated. but saying that Jesus the Christ didnt resurrect and ascend into Heaven is a blantant and very stupid joke. Hold your breath. Dont rush yourself. We all shall see in due course. @babyosis, Dont tell me that you are that blind to the extent of not seeing my posts and questions. When I first started the write-up, I posted some questions after each post. You told me that you didnt have time to go through my write-up that I should tell you my reason for kicking against his crucifixion and I gave them to you. Here you are again, telling me again to tell you the reasons/evidence that Jesus was not crucified . If you care, these are my first questions [b]Question 1 Since Jesus came to die on the cross, it means that he is very aware of the contract. If so, why was Judas named a traitor for the fact it has been arranged that he would die? Question 2 Why did he charge them to buy sword. Did I hear someone saying that one of his disciples that raised sword against the Romans was rebuked? Well, am still coming to that but the question now, why did he charge them to buy sword? Question 3 a. why did they all go to Gethsemane? To pray? b. Could they not have prayed in the upper room? c. Why did he go with his disciples to pray when only him can do the prayer afterall they didn’t pray with him but watched. Question 4 Why did he take Peter, john and james further into the garden? Question 5 a. Why did he pray to the extent of sweating blood. b. what was the prayer for since he came to die. Question 6 a. What did the angel of God came to strengthen him for? b. Did he come to increase his doubts or fear? c. To multiply his anxieties d. Did the angel come to tell him that God had forsaken him in his disbelief? This is my final attempt to help you come at a grown up discussion with a mature disposition. I dont give a damn. If you like, run away. But try shutting up his mouth as being said by babaearly. You never have the answers and will never. Lets see if his mouth can be shut. Escapist. |
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