Was Jesus Christ Crucified? - Religion (3) - Nairaland
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Was Christ Crucified? / DEBATE: Swere Josh Mcdowell And Ahmed Deedat, TOPIC: Was Christ Crucified? / Was Jesus Christ Crucified On A Friday? (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 12:26pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
@babaearly This guy has the rights to posts trash in here well This must be Alao-Akala's style,  He has forgotten that he who lives in glass house must not throw stone Tit for Tat |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 8:03pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
babs787: How do these questions "prove" that Jesus was NOT crucified? |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by Nobody: 8:51pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
I told you the guy is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I have never seen anyone this un cordinated in thoughts. I know it is not Islamic,it must just be him. What does Christ praying fervently and the people he took with have to do with not being crucified. This is becoming downright frustrating. I feel like I'm talking with a kindergardner. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 9:43pm On Feb 14, 2007 |
@babyosisi, It is really not a big deal to understand that the guy's only agenda is to NOT make sense at all. That is why his every effort is testimony to the fact, and if you want to bring him round to a mature discourse, he celebrates his ignorance with "I am too much!" or, "You're escapist!" |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by kaydee(m): 12:35am On Feb 15, 2007 |
This is a very long story. THE SHORT FACT IS: JESUS DIED FOR YOU AND I AND NO ONE GOES TO THE FATHER (GOD) EXCEPT THROUGH HIM. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 9:33am On Feb 15, 2007 |
@babyosis & shahan, I thought babaearly has told you to shut his mouth.Go on and do that. Babyosis, why pretending? The questions are just the starting ones to buttress my claim. Like I said, you dont have the answers and will never have. Also, the questions will never make sense to both of you because you never expected the questions. Throughout your years of being brainwashed or programmed, you have never come across these type of questions let alone someone asking you to defend the crucifixion stuff. You babyosis asked me to give you reasons and I gave you part of the reasons, yet you still come here and be saying stupid things that they are not intelligent questions. Are you not the same person that has been telling me to give you the evidence? When I listed them out for you, you resorted to your normal slogan. Now babyosis, What does Christ praying fervently and the people he took with have to do with not being crucified. I said it. Both of you have never been challenged let alone asking you questions. Read her post above, she was asking me what praying fervently got to do with being crucified. If you dont know it has lot to do. Let me break it down for you. Jesus never had any heavenly contract with God let alone being killed on the cross. Let me be brief here in order to answer the questions you have not been able to. Jesus wanted his disciples to watch (in case of jewish intruder) and went to pray alone. Jesus prayed to God to save him from the Jews and it was learnt that God heard his prayer, sending Angel to strenghten him that God would never leave him. The above shows that HE DIDNT DIE ON THE CROSS. Since both of you tactically avoided my questions just because you have no answers, I will answer the questions for you Question 1 Since Jesus came to die on the cross, it means that he is very aware of the contract. If so, why was Judas named a traitor for the fact it has been arranged that he would die? Judas was named a traitor because jesus was unaware of heavenly contract, i.e. he never planned to come and die for you. Question 2 Why did he charge them to buy sword. Did I hear someone saying that one of his disciples that raised sword against the Romans was rebuked? Well, am still coming to that but the question now, why did he charge them to buy sword? Jesus under-rated the Jew. After learning that Judas had betrayed him and that they would come for him, he charged them to buy sword for defence (Jihad) Question 3 a. why did they all go to Gethsemane? To pray? b. Could they not have prayed in the upper room? c. Why did he go with his disciples to pray when only him can do the prayer afterall they didn’t pray with him but watched. They went to the Garden so that they might be in a better position to defend themselves. Question 4 Why did he take Peter, john and james further into the garden? He didnt take them further into the Garden to pray (he prayed alone) but in order to make his inner line of defence.Little wonder he told them to "wait and watch". The manner in which Jesus deployed his disciples - Eight at the gate and three making the inner line of defence shows that Jesus was not prepared to be made a scapegoat for his followers. He had prepared to fight to the bitter end. Question 5 a. Why did he pray to the extent of sweating blood. b. what was the prayer for since he came to die. He prayed to God in order to be saved. Jesus prayed for the jews because of their sense of logic that if they succeeded in their attempt on his life, it would be a sure proof for them and for their children till eternity that Jesus was a liar. Their rejection of him would leave the door open for every would be imposter to the claim of being the Promised Messiah of the Jews. Question 6 a. What did the angel of God came to strengthen him for? b. Did he come to increase his doubts or fear? c. To multiply his anxieties d. Did the angel come to tell him that God had forsaken him in his disbelief? The angel of God came to assure him that God was with him and that He would never leave him to be killed. I even told you that if you do not provide answers to the questions listed above, I will still move ahead. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 9:36am On Feb 15, 2007 |
Posted by: kaydee Insert Quote This is a very long story. THE SHORT FACT IS: JESUS DIED FOR YOU AND I AND NO ONE GOES TO THE FATHER (GOD) EXCEPT THROUGH HIM. Kaydee, let me have the evidence showing that he died for you and that its only through himn one can gain salvation. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 9:41am On Feb 15, 2007 |
@Babyosis & Shahan These are the other questions thrown at babyosis when she demanded for evidence. From here, I move on and will make each question a heading for my coming post 1. why did mary go to the tomb? 2. why was the stone removed and why were the winding sheets found unwind? 3. why did mary think jesus as a gardener? do resurrected bodies look like gardeners? 4. what does mary wanted to do with a decomposing body? 5. can she alone carry a dead body? Cheers  |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 11:38am On Feb 15, 2007 |
@blabs787, babs787: After celebrating your local under-achievements, you still haven't been able to state if you were seeking an educated debate. babs787: That is what cheap noise-makers conclude, because they have some overblown hope that replies should not be made to their "ignorant" questions. babs787: Another cheap noise making. babs787: Another cheap celebration of your ignorance. babs787: And yours are "intelligent" - so that anyone reading your inputs comes away asking you to understand yourself? babs787: Are you tired out of your usual slogans - "I'm waiting". . . "escapist". . ."I'm too much". . ."they are ignoring my questions"?? babs787: Instead of drumming your ignorance, why this the long drama to a simple question? babs787: So says your Qur'an, abi? If you knew Jesus never had any "contract" with God, why pose the silly question in the first place? You now come round applauding your ignorance twice over. Neither the Bible nor the Qur'an states a "contract" about the Crucifixion - and you throw words around without the slightest clue to your celebrated illiteracy. babs787: When you have nothing else to say, this cliche has become weathered. babs787: Pity. . . if only you replay your drama and seek to truly understand yourself. The meaning of "watch" in that context is often in connection with prayer - just like the Bible in many instances connects "fasting" with prayer. "Watch" in that instance simply means to be spiritually alert - not against any Jewish intruder, but simply that they might not become spiritually weak in the hour of trial they would face shortly. Jesus Himself gave the reason why He asked them to watch - "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak" (Matt. 26:41). So, you can see it was not for any Jewish intruder as you inferred. God sending an Angel to strengthen Jesus does not prove that "HE DIDNT DIE ON THE CROSS!" Rather, the strengthening was towards the great work He was to face on the Cross! If to "strengthen" means He did not die, then the Angel would probably have taken Him away from the Garden. However, it further establishes that Jesus went on to the Cross to die for the sins of the world. babs787: Read the above - are you the wiser now? babs787: The Bible and the Qur'an did not call it a "contract", so your eristic claim here is a mute point. Judas was called a traitor for reasons given in the Bible itself - for a price, he betrayed the Lord Jesus with a kiss in such malicious pretence as if he had done nothing wrong: Matt. 26:15 ~~ 'And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver.' Mark 14:44 ~~ 'And he that betrayed him had given them a token, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he; take him, and lead him away safely.' Luke 22:48 ~~ 'But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?' This event was long prophesied and was fulfilled to the letter: Zech. 11:13 ~~ 'And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.' Matt. 27:5 ~~ 'And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.' babs787: Typical Muhammedan thinking - everything with a sharp edge is "Jihad". Again, neither the Bible nor the Qur'an hinted that "Jesus under-rated the Jew", and making that inference is a cheap concoction. Besides, to show that Jesus never meant a "Jihad" at all, this was what He said: "Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword" (Matt. 26:52). 'Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.' (John 18:36). The Bible did not once hint that Jesus wanted to "defend" Himself, and there's not a hint either about that in the Qur'an. On the contrary, the Bible shows that He was willing to give Himself over to maddening crowd led by Judas that came for His arrest: Matt. 26:53 - 'Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?' John 18:7-8 ~~ 'Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way.' Why then did Jesus Ask Them to Buy A Sword - Luke 22:36? When you read the context and understand that the Lord Jesus sometimes used parabolic language in revealing truth to His disciples, then you see He wasn't asking them to literarily posssess swords. He had previously asked them, 'When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.' (vs.35). How could anyone imagine that the Lord who sustained them at first was unable to do so in their future? A careful study will reveals that vs.36 was simply parabolic: 'Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.' The reason why this is parabolic is because previously in His teaching, He had revealed to them the power of faith in God's provision, Who guarantees their sustenance - food, clothes, protection, and other resources for their needs (Luke 12:28-30): 'If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.' The lesson He had always wanted them to take to heart was Luke 12:26 ~ 'If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest?' And by that, affirming that their welfare was well-guaranteed by God. However, because the disciples were often slow to understand what He actually had taught them (see Mark 8:17-18), He spoke parabolically in Luke 22:36 as He often did when people are slow to grasp what God says. This is also the construct found in Rev.22:11 (He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still). There, He was not encouraging that people be unjust and/or filthy; rather, it is a parabolic language running throughout the Bible to speak to people who are set in their ways after much warning for them to change for the better. The fact that Jesus was not instructing them to possess swords literarily is clearly enunciated in John 18:36 already quoted above; and to demonstrate what kind of faith He wanted them to have in God's power to provide for, and protect them, He stated right there in the midst of peril: 'Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?' Matt. 26:53. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 11:38am On Feb 15, 2007 |
@blabs787, babs787: Wrong again - neither the Bible nor the Qur'an hints such, and it is only your own devising. Jesus and His disciples went to Gethsemane to pray because that was where they often resorted - "And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus ofttimes resorted thither with his disciples" (John 18:2). It was their favorite place, and they went there to pray on that occasion. babs787: You asked a question, then you deny your own question in the same breath. Clap for yourself. babs787: He did not tell them to "wait and watch" - again your fabrication. he simply told them to "watch and pray" (Matt. 26:41). babs787: Fabrication is not helping you - so try another one of your 787 blabbings. Again, neither the Qur'an nor the Bible teaches that Jesus was prepared to fight to the end. I already quoted John 18:36 to show that Jesus never was willing to engaged in a "Jihad" to the bitter end. babs787: And how have you answered your own question? What about the "sweating blood"? Again, you can read John 17 to see the prayer of Jesus in Gethsemane. Neither the Bible nor the Qur'an teaches your fabrication about Jesus praying for "the jews because of their sense of logic!" babs787: Already answered - see above. Nowhere did the Bible nor the Qur'an teach your fabrication in order to prove God "would never leave him to be killed". You're simply putting words in the Angel's mouth in order to buttress your desperate eristic claims. babs787: We've heard the tales before. Please move on to the next line of your 787 fabrications and blabbings. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 11:43am On Feb 15, 2007 |
@babs787, Now your turn to answer some questions which I'll borrow from 4get_me for now: For those accusing the Bible of having been corrupted (according to the Qur'an), I have a few questions: #1. what did the original Bible say in John 1:1, Psalm 2:12, and Isaiah 9:6 before Muhammad was born? #2. who exactly "corrupted" the verses in John 1:1, Psalm 2:12, and Isaiah 9:6 according to Muhammad's accusation? #3. In what year exactly were John 1:1, Psalm 2:12, and Isaiah 9:6 'corrupted' as accused by Muhammad against the Bible? #4. What "Psalms" did Muhammad refer to when he stated in the Qur'an that Allah gave the Psalms unto David [Sura 4:163 - ". . and to David We gave the Psalms."]? What exactly did the Psalms say, and how many chapters were they? #5. Why did Muhammad not mention Isaiah in the Qur'an as one of the prophets of God, even though the Jews recognized him as such, and Jesus quoted from the same Isaiah? If Muslims have investigated Muhammad's accusations and found them untenable, would they be willing to admit that Muhammad was not telling the truth? |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 12:16pm On Feb 15, 2007 |
@shahan, [b]@babs787, Now your turn to answer some questions which I'll borrow from 4get_me for now: For those accusing the Bible of having been corrupted (according to the Qur'an), I have a few questions: #1. what did the original Bible say in John 1:1, Psalm 2:12, and Isaiah 9:6 before Muhammad was born? #2. who exactly "corrupted" the verses in John 1:1, Psalm 2:12, and Isaiah 9:6 according to Muhammad's accusation? #3. In what year exactly were John 1:1, Psalm 2:12, and Isaiah 9:6 'corrupted' as accused by Muhammad against the Bible? #4. What "Psalms" did Muhammad refer to when he stated in the Qur'an that Allah gave the Psalms unto David [Sura 4:163 - ". . and to David We gave the Psalms."]? What exactly did the Psalms say, and how many chapters were they? #5. Why did Muhammad not mention Isaiah in the Qur'an as one of the prophets of God, even though the Jews recognized him as such, and Jesus quoted from the same Isaiah? If Muslims have investigated Muhammad's accusations and found them untenable, would they be willing to admit that Muhammad was not telling the truth?[/b] Madam, dont rush pls. Its never my turn. We have not concluded the issue at hand. You are telling me that he was and I am saying he wasnt. You can bet it with me that your listed worries will be attended to one after the other but that will be when the topic at hand is laid to rest. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 12:17pm On Feb 15, 2007 |
@blabs787, Your fabrications again are proving your immaturity. The latest reposting of your recycled theories all have answers in the Bible; but for some inglorious reason you choose to ignore them, reharsh new stories not found in the Qur'an, Hadith or the Bible, and then you sit back to applaud your under-achievements. babs787: Mary went to the tomb for the express reason stated in the Bible ~~ "And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him" (Mark 16:1). babs787: Answers again in the Bible ~~ "And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it" (Matt. 28:2). "And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great" (Mark 16:4). The linen clothes and napkin showed that Jesus was actually crucified and buried: "And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre" (Mark 15:46). Napkins were traditionally used for wrapping the face of the dead - as in John 11:44 about Lazarus ("his face was bound about with a napkin"  .When the women came to the sepulchre and found "the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself" (John 20:7), that was proof that the Lord Jesus Christ had risen from the dead - as the angels told them ("Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen ~~ Luke 24:5-6). The folded napkin was testimony that there was no raid of the tomb; no sacrilege was committed to steal the body of Jesus away. If Jesus was not crucified, why would the women have gone to the sepulcre intending to anoint the Body of Jesus - the fact of which they witnessed with their very eyes as in John 19:25?? "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene." How would they have presumably gone to the sepulchre if Jesus was never crucified? You chaps are desperately cooking up silly antics to deny clear statements of the Bible, just because Muhammad just decided to cook up his own gist for the same denial. So far, your fabrications haven't helped you a shade better. babs787: Jesus looked like a gardener because after His resurrection he often appeared to His disciples in ways they could not immediately recognize Him, until after He revealed Himself to them ~~ "After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country" (Mark 16:12). After showing Himself to them in these ways initially, they He upbraided their unbelief ~~ "Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen" (Mark 16:14). babs787: Answer as above - to anoint the Body of Jesus (mark 16:1). babs787: That does not disprove the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. There were several who went to the sepulchre - not just Mary (Mark 16:1). |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 12:24pm On Feb 15, 2007 |
@blabs787, babs787: If only you could hear the laughter you're causing already by your cheap defence - "Its NEVER my turn!" O kare arúgbó! You have made it your genetic priority to always throw questions at others in a rush, complain that they are being "IGNORED", and now dodge through the back door with "Its NEVER my turn!" I have said it before: you have nothing to offer. Now you can be happy to celebrate your cheap local defence and take some news back to those who sent you. Whenever they make it YOUR turn to answer questions, then we shall take notice of you. For now, you simply don't exist. Tara! |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 12:49pm On Feb 15, 2007 |
madam, Hold on for babs. He is sorting out your response and will soon be back. haba, ignored ke, no not yet, we are still on the issue of crucifixion. Which of your questions have I evaded? |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 1:11pm On Feb 15, 2007 |
@oga babs787, babs787: Could I add those part of your slogans? babs787: I haven't even started offering your questions of my own as yet - just the easy ones borrowed from 4get_me. And when I find you mature enough for an educated and fabrication-free debate, then you'll find me giving you any notice. Please don't come back with "ITs NEVER my turn" or any of those weathered clichés. Regards. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by mrpataki(m): 1:33pm On Feb 15, 2007 |
@ Shahan, Hope he gets to hold an intellectual discourse here, Shahan. I have answered you in the offtopic. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 2:17pm On Feb 15, 2007 |
Lol @mrpataki, I was off for a while because my friend wanted to use the PC. I do hope babs understands the meaning of "intellectual", let alone a "discourse". The one thing I want him to settle first is the basis for his fabrications, as most of them are found neither in the Bible nor the Qur'an. Failing that for the time being, I have said he simply does not exist. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 4:32pm On Feb 15, 2007 |
@shahan Quote from: babs787 on Today at 12:49:19 PM haba, ignored ke, no not yet, we are still on the issue of crucifixion. Which of your questions have I evaded? I haven't even started offering your questions of my own as yet - just the easy ones borrowed from 4get_me. And when I find you mature enough for an educated and fabrication-free debate, then you'll find me giving you any notice. Please don't come back with "ITs NEVER my turn" or any of those weathered clichés. Regards. Escapist Now to your response to my first questions. Read below for my little explanations. @shahan, Quote from: babs787 on Today at 09:33:16 AM Question 1 Since Jesus came to die on the cross, it means that he is very aware of the contract. If so, why was Judas named a traitor for the fact it has been arranged that he would die? The message I have been trying to pass across to you is that, “Do you have to hold Judas responsible”? Judas was called a traitor for reasons given in the Bible itself - for a price, he betrayed the Lord Jesus with a kiss in such malicious pretence as if he had done nothing wrong: Matt. 26:15 ~~ 'And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver.' Mark 14:44 ~~ 'And he that betrayed him had given them a token, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he; take him, and lead him away safely.' Luke 22:48 ~~ 'But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?' Hey, So judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss. Please read the below verse John 18v4-8: jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth and said unto them, “whom ye seek”?. They answered him Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus said unto them, “I am he” and Judas which betrayed him stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, “ I am he”, they went backward and fell to the ground. They asked he them again, “ whom seek ye”? and they said, “jesus of Nazareth”. Jesus answered, “ I have told you that I am he, if ye therefore seek me, let these go their way You said Judas kissed Jesus but John said Jesus showed himself. Which do we take (showing that none was an eye witness) This event was long prophesied and was fulfilled to the letter: Matt. 27:5 ~~ 'And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.' Here you also said he hanged himself. Please read Act 1v18: Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness) and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. Also note 'And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple” contradicting “Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness” Quote from: babs787 on Today at 09:33:16 AM Question 3 a. why did they all go to Gethsemane? To pray? b. Could they not have prayed in the upper room? c. Why did he go with his disciples to pray when only him can do the prayer afterall they didn’t pray with him but watched. Wrong again - neither the Bible nor the Qur'an hints such, and it is only your own devising. Jesus and His disciples went to Gethsemane to pray because that was where they often resorted - "And Judas also, which betrayed him, knew the place: for Jesus ofttimes resorted thither with his disciples" (John 18:2). It was their favorite place, and they went there to pray on that occasion.[/b] Very good. But note that Jesus prayed alone i.e., the disciples never prayed with him. The prayer could have been offered in the upper room, hope u know that. Quote from: babs787 on Today at 09:33:16 AM Question 4 Why did he take Peter, john and james further into the garden? You asked a question, then you deny your own question in the same breath. Clap for yourself. Nothing was denied madam This my response. He didnt take them further into the Garden to pray (he prayed alone) but in order to make his inner line of defence.Little wonder he told them to "wait and watch". The manner in which Jesus deployed his disciples - Eight at the gate and three making the inner line of defence shows that Jesus was not prepared to be made a scapegoat for his followers. He had prepared to fight to the bitter end. Quote from: babs787 on Today at 09:33:16 AM but in order to make his inner line of defence.Little wonder he told them to "wait and watch". He did not tell them to "wait and watch" - again your fabrication. He simply told them to "watch and pray" (Matt. 26:41). “watch and pray”.  Watch and at the same time be praying? Will there be concentration? Mind you, the disciples never prayed, jesus alone prayed. If for prayer sake, he need not go with the three further into the garden, leaving others behind. Does that mean the three were prayer warriors? Ponder on those pls. Quote from: babs787 on Today at 09:33:16 AM Question 5 a. Why did he pray to the extent of sweating blood. b. what was the prayer for since he came to die. And how have you answered your own question? What about the "sweating blood"? Again, you can read John 17 to see the prayer of Jesus in Gethsemane. Neither the Bible nor the Qur'an teaches your fabrication about Jesus praying for "the jews because of their sense of logic!" Thank you ma. Could you please help with an answer. What did he pray for? Quote from: babs787 on Today at 09:33:16 AM Question 6 a. What did the angel of God came to strengthen him for? b. Did he come to increase his doubts or fear? c. To multiply his anxieties d. Did the angel come to tell him that God had forsaken him in his disbelief? Already answered - see above. Nowhere did the Bible nor the Qur'an teach your fabrication in order to prove God "would never leave him to be killed". You're simply putting words in the Angel's mouth in order to buttress your desperate eristic claims. The angel came to strengthen him about the crucifixion. hmmmmmmmm |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 5:16pm On Feb 15, 2007 |
@babs787, babs787: Not new - another one of your cheap celebration and under-achievement clichés. babs787: Don't dribble round it - you were being dishonest and not passing a message. What you said about "contract" was neither in the Bible nor in the Qur'an. babs787: The disciples were there and saw Judas kiss Jesus as a sign of betrayal. Your linear thinking prevents you from seeing that. babs787: First, that he hanged himself does not contradict the fact that he fell headlong in his suicide attempt and burst open in the midst of his bowels. Again, your linear thinking at work. This is what happened (Matt.27:5-  ~~ "And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood. And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in. Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day."In Jewish custom, the buying of a field with "the price of blood" is for burying strangers. When the field is purchased, the name of the stranger is put on the receipt - and that was why in typical Jewish expression it is recorded in Acts 1:18 >> "Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity," showing that the iniquity of betrayal was his own handiwork. babs787: Why don't you simply drop your fabrications? You're trying to force issues into texts where they don't exists. babs787: You asked a question, and you denied its implications in your reply. Go figure. babs787: Let me help you again. First, you misquoted the Bible in saying "wait and watch" - it was never so written, and that was your fabrication in order to prove your "Jihad". Again, to "watch and pray" is a familiar Biblical expression as "fasting and prayer". Besides, I have given you Scriptures in the Bible to show that to "watch and pray" does not mean what you're suggesting; - and yes, when they go together, even in the midst of danger and anxiety, the one doing the prayer can be in full concentration. babs787: Have you read John 17? Please do. babs787: Yep - go read it again. Cheers. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by Nobody: 12:28am On Feb 16, 2007 |
Again,you have spoken well my sister. It is quite evident who on this thread lacks intelligence. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 9:22am On Feb 16, 2007 |
@babyosis, Never mind, we will see as we proceed. @Shahan, Thanks again for the response. I will to bring some verses into your limelight from your last post to show that he didnt die on the cross before proceeding to the next evidence. With reference to the first post, Can you please explain the vereses below? 1. You showed some verses saying that Judas betrayed jesus with a kiss, abi? Matt. 26:15 ~~ 'And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver.' Mark 14:44 ~~ 'And he that betrayed him had given them a token, saying, Whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he; take him, and lead him away safely.' Luke 22:48 ~~ 'But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?' Now read this too showing that judas never betrayed jesus with a kiss, rather jesus showed himself John 18v4-8: jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth and said unto them, “whom ye seek”?. They answered him Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus said unto them, “I am he” and Judas which betrayed him stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, “ I am he”, they went backward and fell to the ground. They asked he them again, “ whom seek ye”? and they said, “jesus of Nazareth”. Jesus answered, “ I have told you that I am he, if ye therefore seek me, let these go their way Your post regarding the above The disciples were there and saw Judas kiss Jesus as a sign of betrayal. Your linear thinking prevents you from seeing that. Madam, can you bring out the verse from John 18v4-8 that says Judas kissed jesus and we see whose linear thinking has really prevented from seeing? What do you have to say to the above? Do we agree that Judas betrayed jesus with a kiss or that Jesus showed himself? 2. Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 04:32:54 PM Here you also said he hanged himself. Please read Act 1v18: Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness) and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. First, that he hanged himself does not contradict the fact that he fell headlong in his suicide attempt and burst open in the midst of his bowels. Again, your linear thinking at work. This is what happened (Matt.27:5- ~~ "And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood. And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in. Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day."Lets see whose linear thinking is at work So how do a person that hanged himself fell headlong? Headlong means falling with head first. Do they hang someone upside down? 3. In Jewish custom, the buying of a field with "the price of blood" is for burying strangers. When the field is purchased, the name of the stranger is put on the receipt - and that was why in typical Jewish expression it is recorded in Acts 1:18 >> "Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity," showing that the iniquity of betrayal was his own handiwork. Did you in anyway read the verse very well? This is it again madam, Act 1v18: (Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness) and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. Did you see the word "Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness'.? Meaning that Judas bought the field with his body. I will comment on your response in my next post. Stay blessed. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 9:36am On Feb 16, 2007 |
@Shahan, Before posting my comment, I will want you to post your listed problems in another thread so that: 1. Babs will be able to diagnosis them for you. 2. there will be no diversion from the main topic. Note: Your questions will lead us to the origin and authors of the bible, very interesting! I will hold on till I hear from you based on my earlier rejoinder before posting my comment to the answers supplied by you to my second set of questions. "Mo wi ire abi mi o wi re"[/b] - [b]"Have I spoken well?"[i][/i] |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by Pain(m): 11:58am On Feb 16, 2007 |
Seducing Spirits of the Last Days! "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it. In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst. Amos 8:11-13 Some of These Posters Have A Commission to Mislead. They Have Found The Net A Viable Platform To deceive The Elects Matt. 24:21-25 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Many Sure Alredy Have Their Conscience Seared: "Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron" (I Tim. 4: 2) A Turning to Spiritualism Prophecy: "In the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits." 1 Timothy 4:1. "For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, " Revelation 16:14.
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| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 12:25pm On Feb 16, 2007 |
@pain, Is that the picture of Satan? I thought satan is black based on all the films I have seen and watched being shown to christians. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by Pain(m): 12:36pm On Feb 16, 2007 |
Satan Is Not Man. That Is Just a Depiction for the Understanding of 3 dimensional man. Contrary to what most of us think Angels and Fallen Angels are not really in the form we see them . Our brains can only interpret 3 dimensions. We are 3 dimensional. We are manipulated by forces from higher dimensions. A 3 dimensional man can manipulate objects in 2-dimensions. Do U Play Video Games? Thats a good example. Imagine if a video character was to have a third eye to see u. He can only see a 2 dimensional you. 3 dimensional objects cast 2 dimensional shadows. Visitors from higher realms cast 3 dimensional shadows on this plane and thats what we see sometimes. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places (Higher Realms, Dimensions)" (Ephesians 6:12). I want U To Give Your Life To Jesus Christ. I Can Feel That U are Thirsty For The Truth. Ive Been Following Your Posts. Watch Out For My Book. "Realm Of Hope" |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by KAG: 2:31pm On Feb 16, 2007 |
babyosisi: Kag,your opinions are just that,your personal opinions,no more no less and you are certainly entitled to them. You know it was more than my opinion, so stop that. I mean, you could argue that it's my opinion Yeshu of the Talmud isn't Yeshua of the Gospels, but when you consider the facts I presented to back up my assertion, it becomes more than opinion. Lucian is a little weaker, but I believe it stands. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by babs787(m): 4:03pm On Feb 16, 2007 |
Posted by: Pain I want U To Give Your Life To Jesus Christ. I Can Feel That U are Thirsty For The Truth. Ive Been Following Your Posts. Watch Out For My Book. "Realm Of Hope" @PAIN, Give my life to him as what sir? Please dont come and give me that here, afterall you claimed to have been following my posts. What truth are you referring to? You meant the darkness (christianity) I was in for years? You should have been reading all the verses I have been quoting from your bible. Also your coming book will be highly welcomed. Note: Dont just post any book here without biblical backing. I will be needing evidence from the bible. Stay blessed |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by Nobody: 12:07am On Feb 17, 2007 |
babs787: Chei what a pity!!!. A woman came home with a bundle of joy that grew up to become just a bundle. |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by mrpataki(m): 12:38am On Feb 17, 2007 |
Chei!  Such a shame though  |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 10:04am On Feb 17, 2007 |
@babs787, babs787: It doesn't appear you are scoring any points so far in your far-fetched denials. The Bible conclusively declares the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ in both the Old and New Testaments; and it is only on the basis of Muhammad's arab testament that you have been sweating to "prove/show" what the Qur'an denies. babs787: Your problem is that you're pretending the Gospels never indicated the token of a kiss that Judas used in his betrayal; whereas in fact they state it so. Even in John's Gospel, Judas was not with the disciples when the betrayal took place; but rather was standing with the band he led to arrest Jesus (John 18:3 & 5); and the same John's Gospel recorded that Judas betrayed Jesus (vs.5). The kiss was only a sign/token that Judas gave to the band he led to arrest Jesus (Matt. 26:48 and Mark 14:44); but the betrayal itself had occured from the moment that Judas "went unto the chief priests" (Mark 14:10). The synoptic Gospels that recorded the token of the kiss were to emphasize how heinous the betrayal was - "Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful" (Prov. 27:6). Though pretending to be an affectionate friend, Judas proved himself an enemy. John's narrative emphasized the deity of Jesus (John 18:6 ~ "As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground" - cf. Psa.27:2); so that even in spite of the cruelty of Judas' betrayal, the Son of God willingly gave Himself to them (John 18:8 - compare with Matt. 26:53-54 and Mark 14:49). If your argument is based solely on the kiss you did not see in John, does that make Judas any less the traitor who betrayed Jesus? The synoptic Gospels all record Judas as having betrayed Jesus (Matt.10:4; Mark 3:19; Luke 22:4); and even in John's Gospel, Judas is also definitely identified as the one who betrayed Him (John 6:71 & 18:2). Not only so, Judas was also called a thief (John 12:6) and a traitor (Luke 6:16). babs787: As above, I just demonstrated that the disciples saw Judas kiss Jesus as a sign of the betrayal as is recorded in the synoptic Gospels (Matt. 26:48 and Mark 14:44). Pretending to hold on to John 18 alone in disregard of the other accounts explains your linear thinking. babs787: Both. babs787: Again, your linear thinking. "He hanged himself" tells what happened; "he fell headlong" explains how it happened. There are cases where people attempt suicide by trying to hang themselves on a tree. They tie the rope to a high branch, wear the noose around their necks, and jump off the branch they climbed onto. In falling, the rope snaps the chord of their neck and throat - thus causing death within a few minutes. If in some instances the rope breaks, then the person falls to the ground instead of being suspended mid-air. babs787: Do they hang someone on a flat ground? Just to quiz your amusement, read a news report of Pakistan President, Musharraf who defied death more than once by hanging upside down. Excerpt: "He first avoided death as a teenager in 1961 when he was hanging upside down from the branch of a mango tree and it broke, he writes in the prologue of his autobiography, "In the Line of Fire," released Monday in New York." babs787: Have you read what I wrote or you simply refuse your understanding to yield fruit? Do you understand Jewish customs at all? Let me use another example about the transfer of transactions. In Heb. 7:9-10, we read that Levi paid tithes even though he was not yet born at the time it occured. Jewish custom explains it simply that Abraham's paying tithe to Melchizedek on behalf of Levi meant that the tithes paid was recorded against the latter's name. Any Jew reading it will have no problem understanding the nature of the transaction. Levi was said to have paid tithes even though he was not as yet born - because the tithes paid by Abraham on his behalf was recorded against his name: Levi. So it was when the chief priests "took counsel" and bought the field with Judas' blood money (Matt.27:7). The name on the receipt would bear none other than Judas' - and that is why there was no contradiction in Acts 1:18 in stating that "this man purchased a field". The text emphasized Judas' sordid deed, rather than the actions of the chief priests. It is because you do not understand Jewish customs and have not bothered to study them, that is why you often want to judge the Bible by arab/Quraish traditions. babs787: Look forward to your comments. babs787: You too, and cheers! |
| Re: Was Jesus Christ Crucified? by shahan(f): 10:15am On Feb 17, 2007 |
@babs787, babs787: Now, would you be kind as to address the questions I offered earlier as borrowed from 4get_me? Here again: For those accusing the Bible of having been corrupted (according to the Qur'an), I have a few questions: #1. what did the original Bible say in John 1:1, Psalm 2:12, and Isaiah 9:6 before Muhammad was born? #2. who exactly "corrupted" the verses in John 1:1, Psalm 2:12, and Isaiah 9:6 according to Muhammad's accusation? #3. In what year exactly were John 1:1, Psalm 2:12, and Isaiah 9:6 'corrupted' as accused by Muhammad against the Bible? #4. What "Psalms" did Muhammad refer to when he stated in the Qur'an that Allah gave the Psalms unto David [Sura 4:163 - ". . and to David We gave the Psalms."]? What exactly did the Psalms say, and how many chapters were they? #5. Why did Muhammad not mention Isaiah in the Qur'an as one of the prophets of God, even though the Jews recognized him as such, and Jesus quoted from the same Isaiah? If Muslims have investigated Muhammad's accusations and found them untenable, would they be willing to admit that Muhammad was not telling the truth? The reason why you should deal with them here is to settle this rascally attitude of yours in often advancing eristic denials of biblical tenets simply because Muhammad made those denials. babs787: E kàre, ìjòyè àlàyé. E wi ire! |
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