Deo1986:
Read my book; Clashes of the gods.

sango and obatala Jesus and Mohammed Zeus vs Magnus amadioha vs chukuokikie waiting for part two where can one read it? just trolling

MistadeRegal:


Do not bring GOD into your jokes.

Sori bro. God ain't in me jokes.

grandstar:


Your only pre-occupation like a true apostate is to lead obedient sheep away from the shepherd.

We have been warned to keep away from apostates and that we shall do.

Good bye

If I may ask, what is an apostate and what do they do? I will appreciate if you can have something scriptural to say, point to the bible when responding. I will be waiting for your mild and kind response. Thank you

DavidEsq:

Pls cld u tell me exactly how dis money making exercises were carried out by the JW? I wld be grateful with facts, to also learn from ur discovery of their "lies"

Ok. I think I have written about it before. But I'll try to surmarize.

Watchtower uses what is know as stealth tithing when dealing with JWs. Local congregations will get a land from their own expenses, probably fence the land, in time past even build the kingdom hall. All expenses paid and cared for by local brothers and sisters. But in reality, the hall belongs to Watchtower based on US. The same applies to assembly halls.

As I had already been said, the land and everything belong to Watchtower and they can sell it, as is being done in many countries they are experiencing slow growth or no growth at all and take the money. The congregation using the hall will be asked to merged with another congregation.

It is only in recent times, as a result of the struggle of who owns a kingdom hall that Watchtower has change its policies. The case is still in court. I'll try to find a link for you to check out. I learnt recently from a construction worker that Watchtower now looks for a land through their representatives, pay for the land, build the halls as the case may be. I don't actually know if any hall has been built yet with this new policy, but all kingdom hall buildings was suspended as a result of the trouble they encountered in the case I mentioned above. (it was as a result of this case and struggle that one watchtower study said that kingdom halls are dedicated to Jehovah and does not belong to congregation. Don't know if you remember the study. It was an indirect way of telling people, the kingdom hall belong to us and we own it. Of course, it will be to wild to put it that way. But when it gets down to real issues, the watchtower will tell you who rightly owns the hall)

Now, still on the matter of stealth tithing, after the hall has been built for the local congregation. The congregation will repair the loans to Watchtower for as long as the congregation exists. It is as if they borrowed money from the organization to build a hall and repay the money and at the same time, the hall rightly belongs to Watchtower. (of course, that is clouded with says like... Other brothers needs halls, and things like that)

So Watchtower actually uses the local congregation to get real estate all around the world, which rightly belongs to them and members pay loans for the building they are using as if the building belongs them them.

Then, they is also the assembly halls. Next time you attend assembly, pay close attention to the circuit account report. One thing will be quickly obvious, those attending the assemblies or convention are renting the place from the organization, those few days they are attending. It is as if they are paying for a rented hall to use. Mind you, as a religious organization, Watchtower is not paying any tax whatsoever.

Then, still in assemblies, the circuit accountant will be announcing the circuit account. Now, notice, at all times, the circuit accounts are always in deficits. He will announce how much has been contributed, then he will tell those attending how far short they have failed. He will use these expressions "based on per capita income". Basically telling the delegate, you have tried but we need more. (I have recorded many of such, but I can't post it here on nairaland)

Then field services. A simple question to ask is, how many hours do you turn in monthly and how much do you empty from the envelope? (I know we don't count)

To make matters simple. Think about this scenario. 8.4 million people goes out weekly into field service. Let's say only Sunday. Each returns will an envelope that contains at most 100 naira a month, that is 25 naira/week (of course, it's more than that)

Let's do the math:

8.4 million * 100 = 840 million naira.
840 million * 12 = 10.08 billion naira

Of course the above math is greatly simplified. Because many put money into the world wide box from the their own pockets in addition to one collected from field service.

Any month the congregation delays in sending money to the branch, the branch will send a letter asking (I was an account servant, so I know) These days, circuit overseers after going through the audit reports carries out his own audit and makes sure he sees the money himself.

Then Congregation send money to society directly, not worldwide work ooo. From time to time, the organization keeps advising people to send they bonds, trust, shares and make wills to them. As discovered in one of the child abuse cases, Watchtower is worth more than $1.2b in properties alone.

Recently, after an assembly hall was built. The local brothers needed to make interlocking for the ground. They contributed money, buy sands, cement. Spend their time to make the interlocking. The organization stopped the work and sold off the interlocking and the money sent to the branch.

So, while the society will use all sort of loaded, smooth expression to entice their followers, all in all, as a publishing corporation Watchtower is, it all boils down to numbers and money. The more members they have or can retain, the more the money comes.

adaeze12345:

sango and obatala
Jesus and Mohammed
Zeus vs Magnus
amadioha vs chukuokikie
waiting for part two
where can one read it?
just trolling

loooool, you are a riot. That is not yet published. But will send others soonest.

ChristianFreedo:


If I may ask, what is an apostate and what do they do? I will appreciate if you can have something scriptural to say, point to the bible when responding. I will be waiting for your mild and kind response. Thank you

c

An apostate is someone who has left the truth and tries to urge brothers to do likewise

grandstar:
c

An apostate is someone who has left the truth and tries to urge brothers to do likewise

With biblical references, please.

ChristianFreedo:


With biblical references, please.

Acts 20:29-30

Acts 20:29 I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among youy and will not treat the flock with tenderness,30 and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.z

ChristianFreedo:
calddon, grandstar, Jasonudo,

What I actually expected from you witnesses is to open a thread and counter all that has been written above, using the bible. Yes, @Calddon, I have a motive and it is to expose the false teachings and practices of "Jehovah's witness organisation". I believe you can see it from the number of research works I have carried out and posted. It is not just me, they are millions of other research work out there. Simplest and straight to the point is one found in www.jwfacts.com

I have been a witness for more than 25 years of my life. I had believe everything the organisation taught, without question. However, at some point, i decided to test everything i had believe to see if they can be supported in the scriptures. My research was very disturbing and revealed that i had only been a follower of men, a follower of the organisation. It had a humbling effect on me, I had been blinded by the organisation that I could not see when they stray from God word the bible.

Yes, it was a rude awakening for me. So, I had taken this course of action and God's willing, I will continue until my strength can no longer support me. More research work will be coming in the future and I am thinking of starting a blog. Materials will be provided for anyone wishing to make further research.

Also @Calddon, preaching and telling people their own version of the good news is not a crime, after, that is what all religious organisation does. However, the organisation has committed many crimes, misrepresentation of God message, harboring child abusers and silencing the abuse victims, misleading Christ flock, subjecting them to a routine of money making fellows without much spiritual benefits to them, using a series of subtle thought control videos and messages. And their time for Judgment will come from Jehovah. It took years before Jehovah Judge Judah and Jerusalem, Jesus Judgement on the leaders that has misled his people will come in its own time.

I find your last paragraph very amusing.

Jehovah's organisation like their first century brothers aren't perfect but man, it beats by light years the alternative out there.

There is no misrepresentation of bible messages anywhere. If you hate the Truth, that's your beef.

I have heard stories about child abusers. It may be true. There are bound to be bad eggs in the congregation and that is why sinners are punished up to the point of being disfellowshipped. If the allegations are true, then what?

I simply believe the issue is being over flogged as enemies of God people now have something to use against them.

What money making schemes? I find this very amusing. I have Bethelites in my congregation so I know how ridiculouse this sound.

All of them no matter the privilege they have in Bethel receive the same small stipend monthly. Some years back, it was 10,000 monthly. I'm not sure it has been increased. Whether you're the branch overseer or a washerman, they all receive that same 10,000.

This will be the same in the head office in New York. The president of the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society earns the same puny stipend as a cleaner.You know we do not have a clergy class. (Matthew 23:8-12)

8 But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher,h and all of you are brothers.9 Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father,i the heavenly One.10 Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ.j11 But the greatest one among you must be your minister.k12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled,l and whoever humbles himself will be exalted

There are no thought control videos. The average witness stands by his own faith and can't be misled easily (Ephesians 4:11-15)

11 And he gave some as apostles,o some as prophets,p some as evangelizers,*q some as shepherds and teachers,r12 with a view to the readjustment* of the holy ones, for ministerial work, to build up the body of the Christ,s13 until we all attain to the oneness* of the faith and of the accurate knowledge of the Son of God, to being a full-grown* man,t attaining the measure of stature that belongs to the fullness of the Christ.14 [b]So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes.1[/b]5 But speaking the truth, let us by love grow up in all things into him who is the head, Christ

I have highlighted the most important bit.

Witnesses are not christians built on mud. They can't be easily deceived.

Jehovah will not punish them. Rather the governing body has proven without a shred of doubt to be the faithful and discreet slave and are the apple of his eyes. The head of the congregation is mightily proud of them and his flock as well.


calddon, Jasonudo

Hairyrapunzel:


They warn you to shun apostates so you cannot see their lies for example writing in magazines that great crowd is on earth while bible says they stand before the throne of God and the lamb.
Since they told you not to ever read the bible without the aid of magazine, how will you see for your self that those imperfect old white men in new York are liars?
What do you expect from people that have been told not to think for and by themselves (avoid independent thinking)
Fear of death in Armageddon will make people remove all form of humanity they have. You guys are robots .

We shun apostates based on a scriptural instruction found in 2 John 9-11

9 Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God.h The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son.i10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homesj or say a greeting to him.11 For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.

Yes, the great crowd are on earth when they stand before the throne. What is wrong with that?

Haven't you heard? This is what Jehovah says:
“The heavens are my throne, and the earth is my footstool.(Isaiah 66:1). So you can be on earth and still before the throne of God!

The governing body has never instructed us to read the bible without aid of magazines. This can be gleaned from the big signboard at the former Brooklyn headquarters which wrote,"Read God's Word The Bible Everyday"(I think that is what is read). They never mentioned magazines. It is fallacy.

We are not zombies and never can be. That's the last thing a witness is. You probably meant to write obedient sheep. Yes, we agree with that 110%. Our master Jesus, our shepherd has appointed these servants who see themselves as good for nothing slaves (John 17:10) to shepherd his flock on earth. They are ready to be completely spent on our behalf (2 Cor 12:15) Are they to be loved the less. Never may that happen!

grandstar:


I find your last paragraph very amusing.

Jehovah's organisation like their first century brothers aren't perfect but man, it beats by light years the alternative out there.

There is no misrepresentation of bible messages anywhere. If you hate the Truth, that's your beef.

I have heard stories about child abusers. It may be true. There are bound to be bad eggs in the congregation and that is why sinners are punished up to the point of being disfellowshipped. If the allegations are true, then what?

I simply believe the issue is being over flogged as enemies of God people now have something to use against them.

What money making schemes? I find this very amusing. I have Bethelites in my congregation so I know how ridiculouse this sound.

All of them no matter the privilege they have in Bethel receive the same small stipend monthly. Some years back, it was 10,000 monthly. I'm not sure it has been increased. Whether you're the branch overseer or a washerman, they all receive that same 10,000.

This will be the same in the head office in New York. The president of the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society earns the same puny stipend as a cleaner.You know we do not have a clergy class. (Matthew 23:8-12)

8 But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher,h and all of you are brothers.9 Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father,i the heavenly One.10 Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ.j11 But the greatest one among you must be your minister.k12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled,l and whoever humbles himself will be exalted

There are no thought control videos. The average witness stands by his own faith and can't be misled easily (Ephesians 4:11-15)

11 And he gave some as apostles,o some as prophets,p some as evangelizers,*q some as shepherds and teachers,r12 with a view to the readjustment* of the holy ones, for ministerial work, to build up the body of the Christ,s13 until we all attain to the oneness* of the faith and of the accurate knowledge of the Son of God, to being a full-grown* man,t attaining the measure of stature that belongs to the fullness of the Christ.14 So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes.1 5 But speaking the truth, let us by love grow up in all things into him who is the head, Christ

I have highlighted the most important bit.

Witnesses are not christians built on mud. They can't be easily deceived.

Jehovah will not punish them. Rather the governing body has proven without a shred of doubt to be the faithful and discreet slave and are the apple of his eyes. The head of the congregation is mightily proud of them and his flock as well.


calddon, Jasonudo

You know you are not the only one to call the first century Christian your brothers. it is just like John wycliffe, you can call him any nice name whatever. But if he were alive today, you would probably be thinking if him as a hater of truth.

An important question, what do you mean by hate the truth? in this case, what is "the truth"? (interestingly, you never said hate Jehovah or Jesus or angels or the holy spirit or the Bible. It counts for something and reveals a lot about how you think and what thoughts control really is)

There no thought control videos? Well, those that see it know what it is.


********************************************

As for bethel workers receiving small amount of money? There is no condemning of them receiving more or less. After all, they are called unpaid laborers. In fact, all jws are unpaid laborers. If they should receive more, which scriptural principles do they disobey? Even when God had an instituted priesthood here in earth, he made adequate provisions for them, to be well taken care of. At least, it is often said that he that works in the temple eats from there.

However, in terms of remunerations and packages in bethel, some are more important and treated more importantly than others. (that was not even the subject for discussion) that was why any low rank bethelite can be expelled or sent anywhere while those at the top will be given preferential treatment. (it exist everywhere.)

Still on how much bethelite earns, didn't they take an vow of obedient and poverty? Until recently, the organization had been careful not use those expressions "vow of obedience and poverty". Just this 2017 alone, the organization had made reference to it twice, using the exact same expression they had been careful not to use. They even mentioned it in the regional convention I attended. Do you know which religious organization uses that expression freely? Catholic! It shows how much they are imitating the catholics. (In fact, the first I heard of that expression was in connection with bethelite from a sister. She mentioned that they can't have any business outside or be engaged in anything outside what the branch gives them to do. That was when she mentioned that they had been taken a vow of obedience and poverty. That if any has, it may be that their parents are running the business for them.)


********************************************

As for clergy laity distinction? I can only say, it's is just semantics the organization uses. In court of law, it becomes clear that the organization has a clergy class and a laity class. But what basically is clergy or laity class? Simply the leaders or teachers and those who are followers. As you may realize, the organization is hierarchical, fashion after the catholic church. As a simply way of putting it. The organization refrains from using pastors, deacons, apostles or other names other churches use. But they have also created names of their own, Governing Body, circuit oversear, district overseer, branch coordinator. If as an example, there is any scriptures that says "you must not bear such titles as Governing body", the organization would have used another and refrain from using the mentioned titles, which knows, they may create titles like popes to use.

The point is, it makes no difference, true, all are brothers, true. But some are higher up the ladder than others. So, what is a clergy class? You don't have to bear the name ckergy, you just have to act that way. Which has been in play all through the organization life. Deep down you, we know that they certainly is a class distinction in the organization. Elders, ministerial servant, circuit oversears etc.

Just as with the use of the "vows of obedience and poverty" the organization is freely using today, which knows, tomorrow, they will refer to their elders as clergy. (because they are actually clergy and doing the works of a clergy) Besides, they had referred to their elders as clergy in court before. So, it's nothing new.

********************************************
Lastly, you said:

"Jehovah will not punish them. Rather the governing body has proven without a shred of doubt to be the faithful and discreet slave and are the apple of his eyes. The head of the congregation is mightily proud of them and his flock as well."

Well, what is really interesting about this is that it is the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses that pick up scriptures and use them to pat themselves in the back. They praise themselves at every opportunity they get. It has the intended effect. They members think similarly and praise them too. You know what also? Followers of catholic church has the same feelings for their popes. Same with seventh days Adventist. Same with deeper life. Same with living faith.

Fact is, members of any religious groups thinks highly of their leaders and venerate them. However, Pro 27:2 says "Let someone else praise you, and not your own mouth; an outsider, and not your own lips."

As for the FDS or the Governing Body. It's Jesus that will decide when he returns if they have made him proud or not. It's not the self praise from them.

But think a little about this. How faith and discreet is a slave, if his master tells him: "When I come, I'll inspect what you have done so far and if satisfied, will appoint you over my whole belongings", however, the master has not returned yet. But the slave had started telling others that the master returned invisible and appointed him over all his belongings? But the master has not returned? How faithful and discreet is that slave? Who has already claimed and taken over his master's belonging without the master telling him to?

Yet, the Governing Body of jws had been teaching their flock that in 1919, Jesus the master had appointed them over all his belonging. And they had been teaching this falsehood for decades (more than 50). Of course, it was a false application of the scriptures, but they had use that to praise themselves and elevate themselves over christ belongings.

If you had such a slave, what would you do? Well, you will say, they corrected it. Yes, they did. But they are still teaching the falsehood of christ invisible presence of 1914. And yes, by changing the teachings, they are indirectly admitting that it was false all along. How faithful and discreet is that?

Secondly, let's look at all the Governing Body of jws used to praise themselves over the years. Please, refer to the March 1, 1981 Watchtower, page 27. You will see a list of what the organization calls overwhelming credential of the faithful and discreet class.

Some of this are Noah’s wife, angels sent to Lot, Joseph and Benjamin, two spies sent to Raab, “intimate group,” “Shearjashub,” etc.) and things (such as “gleanings left behind,” “light of the nations,” “cluster preserved,” etc.)?

The truly “overwhelming” factor is that every single item in this list of “credentials” depends entirely on the Watch Tower organization’s unique interpretation to make it a “credential.” of course, the organization created this illusion for themselves in what is known as a circular reasoning comparable to a man’s saying, “I am the greatest person in all human history and I have the credentials to prove it. Just look at this long list of famous men and women of the past, and then read these writings of mine in which I have applied everything said about them to myself.”

Recently, you may have noticed that this overwhelming credential had since been discarded, (check the Watchtower study that had to do with type and antitype) in a clever but indirect way of admitting that they had forced the meaning and interpretation in the scriptures to draw those conclusions.

In conclusion, I will have to say this. It is often said that "experience is the a hard school, but fools will learn in no other."

If the leadership of Jws are the faithful and discreet slave or claim to be. They should keep Jesus words of Lu 12:42-48 in mind. It's a very big task, a grave one indeed. It's not something you pat yourself in the back or look for all sort of ways to praise yourself that you have done well. It is Jesus that will say, "weldone, good and faithful slave." Mt 25:23.

Whenever a slave start self praise, as the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses have been doing, be watchful, they slave has strayed.

********************************************

My brother, my quarrel is not with you. It's with your leadership. They have strayed from the way and they are misleading Jesus' sheep. I have been in your position and I argue as you have with all my heart and strength. However, I am eternally grateful that God touch my heart and reach inward. Against all decree from the organization not to research them outside what they had provided, I sort to learn and know and research. Yes, at the pains of being labeled apostates, I dug deep.

Now, I am happy that I am free. Free from the imposition of organizations or men, free from their mediating imposition. I sort to establish a relationship directly with my master and savior christ Jesus, without any organization intercession. True, it brought all the bad names, suspicious, gossip. But I had found something, something I would count everything as a loss in order have it. A had found a direct relationship with christ Jesus my lord and with his God and father.

At that point in time, everything else was a loss to me. That is the relationship I am working and building daily. It's something I will not allow to go.

Please, let me leave you with this gift. It's a book, titled: In search of Christian Freedom. The download link is below.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8Cy3RPbbzxXS1BwdnRqQTctcm8/view?usp=drivesdk

You don't have to read if you don't want to. In fact, after going through the foreword, if you are not comfortable with it. Please, don't go further. However, you can learn more about the faithful and discreet slave in chapter 5.

calddon, Jasonudo, grandstar

DavidEsq:

2 Peter 3:9 says "God is not slow concerning his promise as men consider or understand slowness, but he is patient wit u as he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to come to repentance".
Pls take note of the words "destroyed" or "perish". Not my words and my world or earth.

So now God is slow. Interesting. It's no more the end is imminent. Since your 1975 false prediction of the end did not come to pass now you say God is slow and desires all to come to repentance. Yet you wish for the new system to come every second. Maybe the teaching that all will come to repentance is current new light

Gen 19:24 clearly outlines the destruction of sodom and gomorrah which he did.
Jude 7 says d sodom and gomorrah is a warning or lesson of what is to come.

Lot is one man while your religion is an organization who distributes magazines, follows non biblical doctrines and have leaders in new York, USA. Majority of humans across the globe are good, kind and show love. Since your Jehovah is All out to destroy them because they refuse to distribute magazines that contains doctrines made from assumptions from one house to another then your Jehovah is a big dickhead.
Don't you think God is happy with the way the world is presently?

Rev 19:19-21 also foretells the destruction of earthly government and Rev 20:14-15 speaks of destruction of unrighteous men.

Now I see why your leaders are fixated on removing all government bodies and you people are preoccupied with the day your Jehovah will slaughter all non jws.
Well, it will never happen because its all in your head (new system). The earthly government are kinder and more transparent than your organization as a whole. I Hope you know you religion is registered under the UN as an NGO?
How has watchtower impacted on lives of people? Is it By marketing only their magazine's)



I

do not take pleasure in such destruction of men, take note.
Would diz come true? Yes. Why do I believe that?
Isaiah 13:19-22 foretells d destruction of the city of Babylon and d extent of d destruction

But you derive pleasure in wishing it to take place. You believe it would happen because you have been brainwashed since you were young.
.

Isaiah 14:22-23 describes the details of the conquest of Babylon.

Thank God the prophecy was in Babylon. I know you will say that the assumption is that the Babylon they mentioned in the bible refers to the whole earth today. Well its still in your head

Isaiah 44:27 down to chapter 45:2 mentions the name of the king who wld destroy Babylon

I know you will say that watchtower assumes that that king is here on earth.

The book of Daniel 5:13-30 contains d prophecy and fulfillment of d destruction of Babylon. Today, u may search on Google to verify d state or condition of Babylon. See for urself

So because Daniel prophesied then watchtower is now prophesying about how their Jehovah will slaughter all non jws in Armageddon right?

Daniel 8:1-7 speaks of a vision of two Kingdoms. In chapter 8:20-21, that prophecy was explained and d defeat of Medes and Persia Kingdom by Greece was foretold. The vision even mentioned the very name "Greece".
And many more...........

That's why watchtower has assumed that these two kingdoms are America and Britain right?
If those places were mentioned in the bible it should tell you they existed then. It is simple history. So watchtower assumes that since they mentioned Greece in Daniel that means they are right when they say their Jehovah has promised he will slaughter non jws and it will come to pass. Watchtower is now Daniel in the bible. But their 1975 end of world prophecy did not come to pass.

Isaiah 55:11 speaks of the certainty of God's words. Numbers 23:19 says d same thing.

That's why watchtower is certain that the Armageddon in their fantasies where their jehovah will murder all non jws will come to pass

This current Government (world) power was foretold by in clear details in chapter 2:29-45.

This current government is better than your Jehovah. They don't support mass genocide, most won't shun or harm you if you don't agree with them except they are dictators eg watchtower

My dear broda, have u ever asked urself if God has abandoned his purpose in Gen 1:28 and Gen 2:14?

Another assumption. When did God say that was his purpose for man?
Because God told Adam he will die if he eats from the tree then Watchtower assumes that Adam wouldn't die if he didn't eat the fruit. This is an argument from silence and a doctrine shouldn't be made fro what they didn't mention in the bible. Well, watchtower's stock in trade is to make all their doctrines from what is never
mentioned in the bible. It's not surprising

The issue of the great crowd and where they are, pls I wld address. But for now, I only wished to show u the certainty of God's words.

Great crowd is written clearly in the bible that they stand before the throne of God and the lamb .

Last last all points to support your Jehovah killing all non jws because they didn't agree to distribute magazines for a publishing company based in new York are all based on assumptions

grandstar:
Acts 20:29-30

Acts 20:29 I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among youy and will not treat the flock with tenderness,30 and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.z

Still no mention of apostates. Mind you, your leaders didn't go away from the congregation. That passage doesn't refer to any apostate. You people just take one verse and force it to conform to your non biblical doctrines. Brainwashed cultist
The person who you consider apostates just hold contrary views to non biblical doctrines of an organization.
You see when we say you twist words and misinterpret the bible you cry persecution.

Hairyrapunzel:


Still no mention of apostates. Mind you, your leaders didn't go away from the congregation. That passage doesn't refer to any apostate. You people just take one verse and force it to conform to your non biblical doctrines. Brainwashed cultist
The person who you consider apostates just hold contrary views to non biblical doctrines of an organization.
You see when we say you twist words and misinterpret the bible you cry persecution.

Bye!

grandstar:


We shun apostates based on a scriptural instruction found in 2 John 9-11
!

So your Jehovah told you to shun people who hold contrary views to your non biblical doctrines your Jehovah must be a prick to give you such an information. So Jesus now said you should shun people who don't believe 8 old men in new York are God's sole channel of communication. I think you all are sick

9 Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God.h The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son.i10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homesj or say a greeting to him.11 For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.

How are people who no longer believe the teaching of the gb wicked? Now I believe your religion is a funny one.
It still doesn't say the person is an apostate. The verse doesn't say if you leave watchtower organization you have left Christ. I think your Jehovah is stupid for him to say watchtower non biblical teaching is also Christ teaching

Yes, the great crowd are on earth when they stand before the throne. What is wrong with that?

Still the great crowd stands before the throne of God and the lamb in the bible. The throne of God is in heaven, the lamb is in heaven.

Haven't you heard? This is what Jehovah says:
“The heavens are my throne, and the earth is my footstool.(Isaiah 66:1). So you can be on earth and still before the throne of God

Well, watchtower can assume that their great crowd stands before the footstool
Watchtower has Kindergarten explanation for every thing. Even primary school children will call you a dunce. Your assumption doesn't matter because bible said the great crowd stands before the throne of God and the lamb. Thank God you know that the throne of God is in heaven. Nothing about great crowd standing before the footstool is mentioned in the bible therefore, the great crowd from the biblical view is in heaven and not on earth. I will not assume like stupid people do and make doctrines from assumptions. Great crowd standing before the footstool of God is another assumption only seen in watchtower magazines. I follow the bible and not magazines written by a new York based publishing company.

The governing body has never instructed us to read the bible without aid of magazines. This can be gleaned from the big signboard at the former Brooklyn headquarters which wrote,"Read God's Word The Bible Everyday"(I think that is what is read). They never mentioned magazines. It is fallacy.

Independent thinking is bad in your religion. The signboard never says " read the God's word the bible alone". I am not a zombie that will translate read God's word everyday as read God's word only and alone everyday or read God's word without the aid of watchtower publication. I am a realist not someone who believes in an imaginary Paradise earth that will agree to anything some men in new York will utter even when they are drunk

We are not zombies and never can be.

Zombies don't even know that they are zombies.

That's the last thing a witness is

The only thing they are. You don't have to tell me you are not a zombie to make me know you aren't one. Your actions and utterances say it all.

You probably meant to write obedient sheep. Yes, we agree with that 110%. Our master Jesus, our shepherd has appointed these servants who see themselves as good for nothing slaves (John 17:10) to shepherd his flock on earth.

You know your master jesus appointed the 8 old men in new York because these old men told you so. No mention of imperfect old men who make false predictions and will change their teaching to new light leading God's people. That means your leaders can change any doctrine at any time. They ain't chosen by any Jesus except your Jesus is confused

They are ready to be completely spent on our behalf (2 Cor 12:15) Are they to be loved the less. Never may that happen!

If catholic say this you will say they worship idols and mere men Hypocrisy at its peak

Hairyrapunzel:


So your Jehovah told you to shun people who hold contrary views to your non biblical doctrines your Jehovah must be a prick to give you such an information. So Jesus now said you should shun people who don't believe 8 old men in new York are God's sole channel of communication. I think you all are sick


How are people who no longer believe the teaching of the gb wicked? Now I believe your religion is a funny one.
It still doesn't say the person is an apostate. The verse doesn't say if you leave watchtower organization you have left Christ. I think your Jehovah is stupid for him to say watchtower non biblical teaching is also Christ teaching


Still the great crowd stands before the throne of God and the lamb in the bible. The throne of God is in heaven, the lamb is in heaven.



Well, watchtower can assume that their great crowd stands before the footstool
Watchtower has Kindergarten explanation for every thing. Even primary school children will call you a dunce. Your assumption doesn't matter because bible said the great crowd stands before the throne of God and the lamb. Thank God you know that the throne of God is in heaven. Nothing about great crowd standing before the footstool is mentioned in the bible therefore, the great crowd from the biblical view is in heaven and not on earth. I will not assume like stupid people do and make doctrines from assumptions. Great crowd standing before the footstool of God is another assumption only seen in watchtower magazines. I follow the bible and not magazines written by a new York based publishing company.



Independent thinking is bad in your religion. The signboard never says " read the God's word the bible alone". I am not a zombie that will translate read God's word everyday as read God's word only and alone everyday or read God's word without the aid of watchtower publication. I am a realist not someone who believes in an imaginary Paradise earth that will agree to anything some men in new York will utter even when they are drunk


Zombies don't even know that they are zombies.


The only thing they are. You don't have to tell me you are not a zombie to make me know you aren't one. Your actions and utterances say it all.


You know your master jesus appointed the 8 old men in new York because these old men told you so. No mention of imperfect old men who make false predictions and will change their teaching to new light leading God's people. That means your leaders can change any doctrine at any time. They ain't chosen by any Jesus except your Jesus is confused



If catholic say this you will say they worship idols and mere men Hypocrisy at its peak

Do you believe in God or are you agnostic?

G

Hairyrapunzel:



So now God is slow. Interesting. It's no more the end is imminent. Since your 1975 false prediction of the end did not come to pass now you say God is slow and desires all to come to repentance. Yet you wish for the new system to come every second. Maybe the teaching that all will come to repentance is current new light




Lot is one man while your religion is an organization who distributes magazines, follows non biblical doctrines and have leaders in new York, USA. Majority of humans across the globe are good, kind and show love. Since your Jehovah is All out to destroy them because they refuse to distribute magazines that contains doctrines made from assumptions from one house to another then your Jehovah is a big dickhead.
Don't you think God is happy with the way the world is presently?





Now I see why your leaders are fixated on removing all government bodies and you people are preoccupied with the day your Jehovah will slaughter all non jws.
Well, it will never happen because its all in your head (new system). The earthly government are kinder and more transparent than your organization as a whole. I Hope you know you religion is registered under the UN as an NGO?
How has watchtower impacted on lives of people? Is it By marketing only their magazine's)



I
But you derive pleasure in wishing it to take place. You believe it would happen because you have been brainwashed since you were young.
.


Thank God the prophecy was in Babylon. I know you will say that the assumption is that the Babylon they mentioned in the bible refers to the whole earth today. Well its still in your head



I know you will say that watchtower assumes that that king is here on earth.




So because Daniel prophesied then watchtower is now prophesying about how their Jehovah will slaughter all non jws in Armageddon right?


That's why watchtower has assumed that these two kingdoms are America and Britain right?
If those places were mentioned in the bible it should tell you they existed then. It is simple history. So watchtower assumes that since they mentioned Greece in Daniel that means they are right when they say their Jehovah has promised he will slaughter non jws and it will come to pass. Watchtower is now Daniel in the bible. But their 1975 end of world prophecy did not come to pass.



That's why watchtower is certain that the Armageddon in their fantasies where their jehovah will murder all non jws will come to pass


This current government is better than your Jehovah. They don't support mass genocide, most won't shun or harm you if you don't agree with them except they are dictators eg watchtower



Another assumption. When did God say that was his purpose for man?
Because God told Adam he will die if he eats from the tree then Watchtower assumes that Adam wouldn't die if he didn't eat the fruit. This is an argument from silence and a doctrine shouldn't be made fro what they didn't mention in the bible. Well, watchtower's stock in trade is to make all their doctrines from what is never
mentioned in the bible. It's not surprising


Great crowd is written clearly in the bible that they stand before the throne of God and the lamb .

Last last all points to support your Jehovah killing all non jws because they didn't agree to distribute magazines for a publishing company based in new York are all based on assumptions

Nowhere is it ever preached tha God wld destroy all non JWs. Dats just ur assumption. Besides, cld u give me a clear proof of that failed prophecy of the world ending in 1975? Since u seem to make heavy weather of it, it must be on ur laps

DavidEsq:
G
Nowhere is it ever preached tha God wld destroy all non JWs. Dats just ur assumption. Besides, cld u give me a clear proof of that failed prophecy of the world ending in 1975? Since u seem to make heavy weather of it, it must be on ur laps

The published timetable resulting from this independent study gives the date of man's creation as 4026 B.C.E. According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E. So six thousand years of man's existence on earth will soon be up, yes, within this generation. So in not many years within our own generation we are reaching what Jehovah God could view as the seventh day of man's existence. How appropriate it would be for Jehovah God to make of this coming seventh period of a thousand years a sabbath period of rest and release, a great Jubilee sabbath for the proclaiming of liberty throughout the earth to all its inhabitants! This would be most timely for mankind. It would also be most fitting on God's part, for, remember, mankind has yet ahead of it what the last book of the Holy Bible speaks of as the reign of Jesus Christ over earth for a thousand years, the millennial reign of Christ. It would not be by mere chance or accident but would be according to the loving purpose of Jehovah God for the reign of Jesus Christ, the 'Lord of the Sabbath,' to run parallel with the seventh millennium of man's existence." Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God 1966 pp.26-30


Does God's rest day parallel the time man has been on earth since his creation? Apparently so. In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of Gods rest day come to an end? The year 1975. It means that within a relatively few years we will witness the fulfilment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the "time of the end"." Awake! 1966 Oct 8 pp.19-20


"It did not take the brothers very long to find the chart beginning on page 31, showing that 6,000 years of man's existence end in 1975. Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. "The new book compels us to realize that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed," said a conventioner. Surely it was one of the outstanding blessings to be carried home!" .. Brother Franz. 'Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! All things are possible with God. Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could. Does it mean that the attack of Gog of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah's witnesses to wipe them out, then Gog himself will be put out of action? It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out, no question about that." Watchtower 1966 Oct 15 pp.629,631


Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of man's existence on earth is completed. Do you remember what we learned at the assemblies last summer? The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those that are destroyed then." Kingdom Ministry 1968 Mar p.4

"The immediate future is certain to be filled with climactic events, for this old system is nearing its complete end. Within a few years at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these "last days" will undergo fulfilment." Watchtower 1968 May 1 p.272


1975 end of world false prophecy by watchtower is real and It happened I know you will say its old light or you say I should provide the whole magazine to prove watchtower made these statements. Well, the bottom line is the wrote it in their publications, they predicted the end of the world in 1975 and it never came to pass just like what the bible says about false prophets.

DavidEsq:
G
Nowhere is it ever preached tha God wld destroy all non JWs. Dats just ur assumption. Besides, cld u give me a clear proof of that failed prophecy of the world ending in 1975? Since u seem to make heavy weather of it, it must be on ur laps

Jehovah's witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19




During the final period of the ancient world that perished in the Flood, Noah was a faithful preacher of righteousness. (2 Peter 2:5) In these last days of the present system of things, Jehovah's people are making known Gods righteous standards and are declaring good news about the possibility of surviving into the new world. (2 Peter 3:9-13) Just as Noah and his God-fearing family were preserved in the ark, survival of individuals today depends on their faith and their loyal association with the earthly part of Jehovah's universal organization." Watchtower 2006 May 15 p.22 "Are You Prepared for Survival?"

Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it." Watchtower 1983 Feb 15 p.12


There are billions of people who do not know Jehovah. Many of them in ignorance practice things that God's Word shows to be wicked. If they persist in this course, they will be among those who perish during the great tribulation." Watchtower 1993 Oct 1 p.19

DavidEsq:
G
Nowhere is it ever preached tha God wld destroy all non JWs. Dats just ur assumption. Besides, cld u give me a clear proof of that failed prophecy of the world ending in 1975? Since u seem to make heavy weather of it, it must be on ur laps

An even greater mistake would be to allow the faults of others to stumble us and cause us to leave Jehovah's organisation. Were that to happen, we would lose not only the privilege of doing God's will but also the hope of life in God's new world." Watchtower 2016 Jun study ed pp.25-26


"Really, our survival involves being devoted to Jehovah God and learning about the kind of conduct and deeds that please him. (Zephaniah 2:3) Rather than following the majority today and ignoring the clear signals that we are living in such important times, we need to “keep close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah.” Jehovah’s Witnesses can show you from the Bible how you can be a survivor of this upcoming day." Watchtower 2015 May 1 p.8


"If we stop actively supporting Jehovah's work, then we start following Satan. There is no middle ground." Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.18


"But Jehovah's servants already belong to the only organization that will survive the end of this wicked system of things." Watchtower 2007 Dec 15 p.14

"But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy." Watchtower 1993 Sep 15 p.22


"Direct Interest Progressively on Bible Studies: The primary purpose of a Bible study is to teach the truth of God's Word. It should also build in the student an appreciation for Jehovah's organization and make him aware of the vital need to become part of it. ... The weekly Bible study should include instruction that will help students appreciate the organization and take advantage of provisions for their salvation. Take a few minutes each week to relate or describe something about the organization and how it functions. You can find helpful talking points in the November 1, 1984, Watchtower. The brochures Jehovah's Witnesses in the Twentieth Century and Jehovah's Witnesses Unitedly Doing God's Will Worldwide discuss major facets of the organization and how they may benefit us. Arranging for Bible students to view the video Jehovah's WitnessesThe Organization Behind the Name will let them see for themselves what it is accomplishing." Kingdom Ministry 1993 Apr p.3

"They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah's organization is essential to their salvation." Kingdom Ministry 1990 Nov p.1

"But what must they do to survive the violent destruction of Satan's old world and enter the promised new world under the Greater Joshua, Jesus Christ? (2 Peter 3:13) They must keep in line with the organizational arrangements of the nucleus of Jehovah's visible organization, the anointed remnant." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.15


"Only Christian witnesses of Jehovah who successfully pass this test will survive and come forth like fire-refined gold for God's use in his precious new order." Watchtower 1985 Mar 1 p.14

"At this stage of the affairs of man, it is absolutely impossible for anyone, professed Christian or otherwise, to stand independently of the one organisation that is bearing witness worldwide to Jehovah, his goodness and supremacy in accord with the 145th Psalm and, in fact, in accord with all the Scriptures." Yearbook 1982 p.259

"And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah's organization for salvation, the time no doubt will come when the message takes on a harder tone, like a "great war cry."" Watchtower 1981 Nov 15 p.21

"No matter where we may live on earth, God’s Word continues to serve as a light to our path and a lamp to our roadway as to our conduct and beliefs. (Ps. 119:105) But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave", made up of spirit-anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." Watchtower 1981 Dec 1 p.27

"This great crowd is part of the only truly united multinational organization on earth today. They do not cry out that they owe salvation to the holy spirit, for they are not servants of a trinitarian god. In some 200 geographical territories around the earth, they are at one in calling upon the name of Jehovah as they speak the one pure language of truth. (Zephaniah 3:9) Properly, they publicly acknowledge that their salvation comes from Jehovah, the God of salvation, through Jesus Christ, His Chief Agent of salvation.-Psalm 3:8; Hebrews 2:10. Modern technology has helped to make the loud voice of the united great crowd sound even louder. No other religious group on earth has need of publishing Bible study aids in more than 200 languages, since no other group is interested in reaching all peoples of earth with one united message." Revelation pp.122-123

Hairyrapunzel:


An even greater mistake would be to allow the faults of others to stumble us and cause us to leave Jehovah's organisation. Were that to happen, we would lose not only the privilege of doing God's will but also the hope of life in God's new world." Watchtower 2016 Jun study ed pp.25-26


"Really, our survival involves being devoted to Jehovah God and learning about the kind of conduct and deeds that please him. (Zephaniah 2:3) Rather than following the majority today and ignoring the clear signals that we are living in such important times, we need to “keep close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah.” Jehovah’s Witnesses can show you from the Bible how you can be a survivor of this upcoming day." Watchtower 2015 May 1 p.8


"If we stop actively supporting Jehovah's work, then we start following Satan. There is no middle ground." Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.18


"But Jehovah's servants already belong to the only organization that will survive the end of this wicked system of things." Watchtower 2007 Dec 15 p.14

"But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy." Watchtower 1993 Sep 15 p.22


"Direct Interest Progressively on Bible Studies: The primary purpose of a Bible study is to teach the truth of God's Word. It should also build in the student an appreciation for Jehovah's organization and make him aware of the vital need to become part of it. ... The weekly Bible study should include instruction that will help students appreciate the organization and take advantage of provisions for their salvation. Take a few minutes each week to relate or describe something about the organization and how it functions. You can find helpful talking points in the November 1, 1984, Watchtower. The brochures Jehovah's Witnesses in the Twentieth Century and Jehovah's Witnesses Unitedly Doing God's Will Worldwide discuss major facets of the organization and how they may benefit us. Arranging for Bible students to view the video Jehovah's WitnessesThe Organization Behind the Name will let them see for themselves what it is accomplishing." Kingdom Ministry 1993 Apr p.3

"They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah's organization is essential to their salvation." Kingdom Ministry 1990 Nov p.1

"But what must they do to survive the violent destruction of Satan's old world and enter the promised new world under the Greater Joshua, Jesus Christ? (2 Peter 3:13) They must keep in line with the organizational arrangements of the nucleus of Jehovah's visible organization, the anointed remnant." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.15


"Only Christian witnesses of Jehovah who successfully pass this test will survive and come forth like fire-refined gold for God's use in his precious new order." Watchtower 1985 Mar 1 p.14

"At this stage of the affairs of man, it is absolutely impossible for anyone, professed Christian or otherwise, to stand independently of the one organisation that is bearing witness worldwide to Jehovah, his goodness and supremacy in accord with the 145th Psalm and, in fact, in accord with all the Scriptures." Yearbook 1982 p.259

"And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah's organization for salvation, the time no doubt will come when the message takes on a harder tone, like a "great war cry."" Watchtower 1981 Nov 15 p.21

"No matter where we may live on earth, God’s Word continues to serve as a light to our path and a lamp to our roadway as to our conduct and beliefs. (Ps. 119:105) But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave", made up of spirit-anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." Watchtower 1981 Dec 1 p.27

"This great crowd is part of the only truly united multinational organization on earth today. They do not cry out that they owe salvation to the holy spirit, for they are not servants of a trinitarian god. In some 200 geographical territories around the earth, they are at one in calling upon the name of Jehovah as they speak the one pure language of truth. (Zephaniah 3:9) Properly, they publicly acknowledge that their salvation comes from Jehovah, the God of salvation, through Jesus Christ, His Chief Agent of salvation.-Psalm 3:8; Hebrews 2:10. Modern technology has helped to make the loud voice of the united great crowd sound even louder. No other religious group on earth has need of publishing Bible study aids in more than 200 languages, since no other group is interested in reaching all peoples of earth with one united message." Revelation pp.122-123

Revelation 20:6, John 5:29 and Rev. 20:12 refer to persons practicing vile things who wld b given a chance to resurrect and live a good life.
These persons are not witnesses. Moreso, Psalm 59:32, Psalm 9:18, Psalm 76:9, Psalm 25:9 also refer to persons who are meek in nature. Not every meek person is a witness and we know dat.
There a whole lot more persons who are non-witnesses but wld see God's salvation.

Hairyrapunzel:



The published timetable resulting from this independent study gives the date of man's creation as 4026 B.C.E. According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E. So six thousand years of man's existence on earth will soon be up, yes, within this generation. So in not many years within our own generation we are reaching what Jehovah God could view as the seventh day of man's existence. How appropriate it would be for Jehovah God to make of this coming seventh period of a thousand years a sabbath period of rest and release, a great Jubilee sabbath for the proclaiming of liberty throughout the earth to all its inhabitants! This would be most timely for mankind. It would also be most fitting on God's part, for, remember, mankind has yet ahead of it what the last book of the Holy Bible speaks of as the reign of Jesus Christ over earth for a thousand years, the millennial reign of Christ. It would not be by mere chance or accident but would be according to the loving purpose of Jehovah God for the reign of Jesus Christ, the 'Lord of the Sabbath,' to run parallel with the seventh millennium of man's existence." Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God 1966 pp.26-30


Does God's rest day parallel the time man has been on earth since his creation? Apparently so. In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of Gods rest day come to an end? The year 1975. It means that within a relatively few years we will witness the fulfilment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the "time of the end"." Awake! 1966 Oct 8 pp.19-20


"It did not take the brothers very long to find the chart beginning on page 31, showing that 6,000 years of man's existence end in 1975. Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. "The new book compels us to realize that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed," said a conventioner. Surely it was one of the outstanding blessings to be carried home!" .. Brother Franz. 'Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! All things are possible with God. Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could. Does it mean that the attack of Gog of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah's witnesses to wipe them out, then Gog himself will be put out of action? It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don't any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out, no question about that." Watchtower 1966 Oct 15 pp.629,631


Just think, brothers, there are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of man's existence on earth is completed. Do you remember what we learned at the assemblies last summer? The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those that are destroyed then." Kingdom Ministry 1968 Mar p.4

"The immediate future is certain to be filled with climactic events, for this old system is nearing its complete end. Within a few years at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these "last days" will undergo fulfilment." Watchtower 1968 May 1 p.272


1975 end of world false prophecy by watchtower is real and It happened I know you will say its old light or you say I should provide the whole magazine to prove watchtower made these statements. Well, the bottom line is the wrote it in their publications, they predicted the end of the world in 1975 and it never came to pass just like what the bible says about false prophets.

Now u have my attention. Wld u do me the favour to verify these publications pls? I wld hola back in good time, pls.

DavidEsq:

Now u have my attention. Wld u do me the favour to verify these publications pls? I wld hola back in good time, pls.

I referenced all of them

DavidEsq:

Revelation 20:6, John 5:29 and Rev. 20:12 refer to persons practicing vile things who wld b given a chance to resurrect and live a good life.
These persons are not witnesses. Moreso, Psalm 59:32, Psalm 9:18, Psalm 76:9, Psalm 25:9 also refer to persons who are meek in nature. Not every meek person is a witness and we know dat.
There a whole lot more persons who are non-witnesses but wld see God's salvation.

You still want to lie even in when evidence is shown to you.
I know the line where you people say vile people will resurrect too. I ain't no fool.
I am not talking about dead people. I talk about those who are non jws and are alive. You can lie all you want to or try to cover up your beliefs but the bottom line is the only way to salvation taught by jws is by joining watchtower organization. All statement say joining your organization is the way you can gain new life in the new world or new system or the only way you can gain salvation or everlasting life.

Where the name Jesus is supposed to be you put jehovahs organization. This is what only a false prophet will do.

Hairyrapunzel:


You still want to lie even in when evidence is shown to you.
I know the line where you people say vile people will resurrect too. I ain't no fool.
I am not talking about dead people. I talk about those who are non jws and are alive. You can lie all you want to or try to cover up your beliefs but the bottom line is the only way to salvation taught by jws is by joining watchtower organization. All statement say joining your organization is the way you can gain new life in the new world or new system or the only way you can gain salvation or everlasting life.

Where the name Jesus is supposed to be you put jehovahs organization. This is what only a false prophet will do.

Ur own rage has blinded u to the extent that u fail to see that my argument above agrees with u to the extent that not only witnesses can be saved. There are a whole lot of odas wh are non witnesses that wld also be saved.

Hairyrapunzel:

I referenced all of them

Sure.

DavidEsq:

Ur own rage has blinded u to the extent that u fail to see that my argument above agrees with u to the extent that not only witnesses can be saved. There are a whole lot of odas wh are non witnesses that wld also be saved.

But you said the lot of others will have to resurrect na so in other words, they are the already dead ones. You wanna make your religion/organization look very appealing.
I am not in rage. It's watchtower write up. You didn't even address the individual statement and you claim I am in rage. You saw what I posted but you turn a blind eye . you just want to cover up


"Those who will form the nucleus of the "new earth", a new earthly society of rightly disposed people, are being gathered during these last days. They are already nearly seven million strong, in at least 235 lands and in some 100,000 congregations. These millions have been learning the righteous and just ways of Jehovah, and as a result, worldwide they enjoy a unity that is cemented by Christian love. Their unity is the most pronounced and enduring in the history of the world, a unity exceeding anything experienced by Satan's subjects." Watchtower 2007 Aug 15 p.26

Children are affected by the course of their parents, and parents are warned that their iniquity is visited on their offspring unto the third and fourth generation. (Ex. 20:5, 6) Parents are commanded to instruct their children in God's way, and if in these last days parents refuse to heed the divine instruction and warning they bring destruction upon themselves and their small children at Armageddon. (Deut. 6:6, 7; Eph. 6:4) According to justice God can leave such children dead, for, as Ezekiel showed, all die in their iniquity." Watchtower 1950 Nov 15 p.463 Questions From Readers

"By all the evidences this system of things is hastening to its final confrontation with the God of justice at Armageddon. Parents and children who fail to gain the "mark on their foreheads," that is, an adequate appreciation of God's moral standard, are sure to suffer. Parents will be held accountable for their children, and children will suffer for the failure of their parents." Watchtower 1968 Feb 1 pp.83-84

Even children get to die also because their parents refused to associate watchtower organization.

DavidEsq:

Ur own rage has blinded u to the extent that u fail to see that my argument above agrees with u to the extent that not only witnesses can be saved. There are a whole lot of odas wh are non witnesses that wld also be saved.

Let us recognize that Christendom is doomed, along with all the rest of Babylon the Great. She has refused to repent of her religiously immoral or adulterous course of action, her friendship with this world. (Jas. 4:4) She is like the rest of the ungodly world, even after Jehovah's Christian witnesses have plainly declared God's impending judgment to her." Watchtower 1972 Dec 15 p.753


"without question the execution of divine judgment upon apostate Christendom and the rest of Satan's world is imminent." Watchtower 1984 Oct 1 p.11


"The narrow door to salvation stands open to all. But the "many" do not like to struggle to enter. What are some factors about going through the narrow door that require vigorous exertion? A person must first gain accurate knowledge of Bible truth, and get to know Jehovah God and Christ Jesus. (John 17:3) This means casting aside the traditions and practices of worldly religions, including those of Christendom. It requires doing God's will, as Jesus did it while here on earth. (1 Peter 2:21) As a dedicated, baptized Christian, one must also avoid the materialism, the immorality, and the uncleanness of the world." Watchtower 1986 Jan 15 p.12

Do not conclude that there are different roads, or ways, that you can follow to gain life in God's new system. There is only one. There was just one ark that survived the Flood, not a number of boats. And there will be only one organization- God's visible organization - that will survive the fast-approaching "great tribulation." It is simply not true that all religions lead to the same goal … You must be part of Jehovah's organization, doing God's will, in order to receive his blessing of everlasting life." You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth p.255


"This "one baptism" applies to all who become true Christians. At baptism they become Christian Witnesses of Jehovah, God's ordained ministers.-Ephesians 4:5; 2 Corinthians 6:3, 4 Such baptism has great saving value in the eyes of God. For instance, after mentioning Noah's constructing of the ark, in which he and his family were preserved through the Flood, the apostle Peter wrote: "That which corresponds to this is also now saving you, namely, baptism, (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the request made to God for a good conscience,) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."" (1 Peter 3:21) Worship the only true God pp.115-116


"To ensure their salvation, Noah and his family needed to exercise faith. This meant following instructions and the leadings of Gods holy spirit. During the great tribulation, it will be just as imperative that we follow the leadings of the holy spirit and obey Jehovah's instructions through his organization." Watchtower 1991 Sep 15 p.17

Hairyrapunzel:


An even greater mistake would be to allow the faults of others to stumble us and cause us to leave Jehovah's organisation. Were that to happen, we would lose not only the privilege of doing God's will but also the hope of life in God's new world." Watchtower 2016 Jun study ed pp.25-26


"Really, our survival involves being devoted to Jehovah God and learning about the kind of conduct and deeds that please him. (Zephaniah 2:3) Rather than following the majority today and ignoring the clear signals that we are living in such important times, we need to “keep close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah.” Jehovah’s Witnesses can show you from the Bible how you can be a survivor of this upcoming day." Watchtower 2015 May 1 p.8


"If we stop actively supporting Jehovah's work, then we start following Satan. There is no middle ground." Watchtower 2011 Jul 15 p.18


"But Jehovah's servants already belong to the only organization that will survive the end of this wicked system of things." Watchtower 2007 Dec 15 p.14

"But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy." Watchtower 1993 Sep 15 p.22


"Direct Interest Progressively on Bible Studies: The primary purpose of a Bible study is to teach the truth of God's Word. It should also build in the student an appreciation for Jehovah's organization and make him aware of the vital need to become part of it. ... The weekly Bible study should include instruction that will help students appreciate the organization and take advantage of provisions for their salvation. Take a few minutes each week to relate or describe something about the organization and how it functions. You can find helpful talking points in the November 1, 1984, Watchtower. The brochures Jehovah's Witnesses in the Twentieth Century and Jehovah's Witnesses Unitedly Doing God's Will Worldwide discuss major facets of the organization and how they may benefit us. Arranging for Bible students to view the video Jehovah's WitnessesThe Organization Behind the Name will let them see for themselves what it is accomplishing." Kingdom Ministry 1993 Apr p.3

"They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah's organization is essential to their salvation." Kingdom Ministry 1990 Nov p.1

"But what must they do to survive the violent destruction of Satan's old world and enter the promised new world under the Greater Joshua, Jesus Christ? (2 Peter 3:13) They must keep in line with the organizational arrangements of the nucleus of Jehovah's visible organization, the anointed remnant." Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.15


"Only Christian witnesses of Jehovah who successfully pass this test will survive and come forth like fire-refined gold for God's use in his precious new order." Watchtower 1985 Mar 1 p.14

"At this stage of the affairs of man, it is absolutely impossible for anyone, professed Christian or otherwise, to stand independently of the one organisation that is bearing witness worldwide to Jehovah, his goodness and supremacy in accord with the 145th Psalm and, in fact, in accord with all the Scriptures." Yearbook 1982 p.259

"And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah's organization for salvation, the time no doubt will come when the message takes on a harder tone, like a "great war cry."" Watchtower 1981 Nov 15 p.21

"No matter where we may live on earth, God’s Word continues to serve as a light to our path and a lamp to our roadway as to our conduct and beliefs. (Ps. 119:105) But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave", made up of spirit-anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." Watchtower 1981 Dec 1 p.27

"This great crowd is part of the only truly united multinational organization on earth today. They do not cry out that they owe salvation to the holy spirit, for they are not servants of a trinitarian god. In some 200 geographical territories around the earth, they are at one in calling upon the name of Jehovah as they speak the one pure language of truth. (Zephaniah 3:9) Properly, they publicly acknowledge that their salvation comes from Jehovah, the God of salvation, through Jesus Christ, His Chief Agent of salvation.-Psalm 3:8; Hebrews 2:10. Modern technology has helped to make the loud voice of the united great crowd sound even louder. No other religious group on earth has need of publishing Bible study aids in more than 200 languages, since no other group is interested in reaching all peoples of earth with one united message." Revelation pp.122-123

I see, bro. U are right. Oya drink , water .
Now, on a serious note, Genesis 6:7, 13 & 14. Gen.7:21 show the destruction of all flesh, but a few (Noah and his family). Noah's preaching to the ppl of the imminent danger and plea to join in the ark was rebuffed by the people. Their failure to turn from their ways and identify with the ark (God's refuge or chosen congregation) led to their destruction. So it also was with d ppl of Sodom and gomorrah (Gen.19:12-28, Jude 7).
Now Jude 7 tells us that these events are examples of wat is to come against evil peepz.
1 Corinthians 10:11 also tells us dat that these tins wr written down to serve as a warning to us......."
My conclusion is that if the JW are convinced that they Worship God in accordance with scripture based standards, then wldnt it be ryt for them to express their beliefs that they have the benefits that Noah and Lot enjoyed?
Moreso, I don't think that is the center point of our activities. We preach and teach the bible and not our organisation or belief system, in a denominational sense.
Lastly, Revelation 18:4 clearly warns all faithfuls to come out of Babylon the Great or get consumed in her punishment from God.

You do not have to reason with him. He is an anti-JW blasphemer. He is a Catholic on a smear campaign against the JW. All his posts since 2016 have been 'copy and paste' from anti-JW blogs. Ask him to explain his own doctrines to you and he will run away. He should explain Limbo and purgatory to you first

DavidEsq:

I see, bro. U are right. Oya drink , water .
Now, on a serious note, Genesis 6:7, 13 & 14. Gen.7:21 show the destruction of all flesh, but a few (Noah and his family). Noah's preaching to the ppl of the imminent danger and plea to join in the ark was rebuffed by the people. Their failure to turn from their ways and identify with the ark (God's refuge or chosen congregation) led to their destruction. So it also was with d ppl of Sodom and gomorrah (Gen.19:12-28, Jude 7).
Now Jude 7 tells us that these events are examples of wat is to come against evil peepz.
1 Corinthians 10:11 also tells us dat that these tins wr written down to serve as a warning to us......."
My conclusion is that if the JW are convinced that they Worship God in accordance with scripture based standards, then wldnt it be ryt for them to express their beliefs that they have the benefits that Noah and Lot enjoyed?
Moreso, I don't think that is the center point of our activities. We preach and teach the bible and not our organisation or belief system, in a denominational sense.
Lastly, Revelation 18:4 clearly warns all faithfuls to come out of Babylon the Great or get consumed in her punishment from God.

so after all the 'copy and paste' math, what are you insinuating? I want you to use your own head to express your knowledge or thought. When I meet the writer of that article, I can have a conversation with him. We do not owe you explanation for someone else's writeup.

ChristianFreedo:


Ok. I think I have written about it before. But I'll try to surmarize.

Watchtower uses what is know as stealth tithing when dealing with JWs. Local congregations will get a land from their own expenses, probably fence the land, in time past even build the kingdom hall. All expenses paid and cared for by local brothers and sisters. But in reality, the hall belongs to Watchtower based on US. The same applies to assembly halls.

As I had already been said, the land and everything belong to Watchtower and they can sell it, as is being done in many countries they are experiencing slow growth or no growth at all and take the money. The congregation using the hall will be asked to merged with another congregation.

It is only in recent times, as a result of the struggle of who owns a kingdom hall that Watchtower has change its policies. The case is still in court. I'll try to find a link for you to check out. I learnt recently from a construction worker that Watchtower now looks for a land through their representatives, pay for the land, build the halls as the case may be. I don't actually know if any hall has been built yet with this new policy, but all kingdom hall buildings was suspended as a result of the trouble they encountered in the case I mentioned above. (it was as a result of this case and struggle that one watchtower study said that kingdom halls are dedicated to Jehovah and does not belong to congregation. Don't know if you remember the study. It was an indirect way of telling people, the kingdom hall belong to us and we own it. Of course, it will be to wild to put it that way. But when it gets down to real issues, the watchtower will tell you who rightly owns the hall)

Now, still on the matter of stealth tithing, after the hall has been built for the local congregation. The congregation will repair the loans to Watchtower for as long as the congregation exists. It is as if they borrowed money from the organization to build a hall and repay the money and at the same time, the hall rightly belongs to Watchtower. (of course, that is clouded with says like... Other brothers needs halls, and things like that)

So Watchtower actually uses the local congregation to get real estate all around the world, which rightly belongs to them and members pay loans for the building they are using as if the building belongs them them.

Then, they is also the assembly halls. Next time you attend assembly, pay close attention to the circuit account report. One thing will be quickly obvious, those attending the assemblies or convention are renting the place from the organization, those few days they are attending. It is as if they are paying for a rented hall to use. Mind you, as a religious organization, Watchtower is not paying any tax whatsoever.

Then, still in assemblies, the circuit accountant will be announcing the circuit account. Now, notice, at all times, the circuit accounts are always in deficits. He will announce how much has been contributed, then he will tell those attending how far short they have failed. He will use these expressions "based on per capita income". Basically telling the delegate, you have tried but we need more. (I have recorded many of such, but I can't post it here on nairaland)

Then field services. A simple question to ask is, how many hours do you turn in monthly and how much do you empty from the envelope? (I know we don't count)

To make matters simple. Think about this scenario. 8.4 million people goes out weekly into field service. Let's say only Sunday. Each returns will an envelope that contains at most 100 naira a month, that is 25 naira/week (of course, it's more than that)

Let's do the math:

8.4 million * 100 = 840 million naira.
840 million * 12 = 10.08 billion naira

Of course the above math is greatly simplified. Because many put money into the world wide box from the their own pockets in addition to one collected from field service.

Any month the congregation delays in sending money to the branch, the branch will send a letter asking (I was an account servant, so I know) These days, circuit overseers after going through the audit reports carries out his own audit and makes sure he sees the money himself.

Then Congregation send money to society directly, not worldwide work ooo. From time to time, the organization keeps advising people to send they bonds, trust, shares and make wills to them. As discovered in one of the child abuse cases, Watchtower is worth more than $1.2b in properties alone.

Recently, after an assembly hall was built. The local brothers needed to make interlocking for the ground. They contributed money, buy sands, cement. Spend their time to make the interlocking. The organization stopped the work and sold off the interlocking and the money sent to the branch.

So, while the society will use all sort of loaded, smooth expression to entice their followers, all in all, as a publishing corporation Watchtower is, it all boils down to numbers and money. The more members they have or can retain, the more the money comes.

removetheturban:
You do not have to reason with him. He is an anti-JW blasphemer. He is a Catholic on a smear campaign against the JW. All his posts since 2016 have been 'copy and paste' from anti-JW blogs. Ask him to explain his own doctrines to you and he will run away. He should explain Limbo and purgatory to you first

Ur moniker makes too much sense.