Ipfreely:
But I think you should head over to the autos section and see how fraud is perpetuated in your name all over..

What? Dominique and Mynd44, how true is this? Please find out what he is talking about dnd give me a report a.s.a.p. Thanks. Back to topic.

I don't even know which is worse; having the wrong idea of who created and owns the world or believing that there was no creator.

Have ye seen that which ye emit? Do ye create it or are We the Creator? Waqia 58 -59

And verily ye know the first creation. Why, then, do ye not reflect?

Have ye observed the water which ye drink? 68 Is it ye who shed it from the raincloud, or are We the Shedder? 69 If We willed We verily could make it bitter. Why then, give ye not thanks? 70

At the end of our lives everyone should expect judgement and thats when our deeds will be accounted for. Punishment and rewards will be served, then you will realise that there is one God

dalaman:


You have allowed others to reason for you so much so that you can not live without their imaginary and mythical thoughts and ideas. You can not compare nairaland with the God idea. Everybody here including you KNOWS and acknowledges that nairaland belongs to Seun Osewa. His objective signature is on nairaland stating very clearly in bold that he owns nairaland. He has a UNIQUE moniker(No other moniker called Seun exist here on nairaland ) and uses his monikers to communicate wit people here. He uses the moniker to seek for employees (moderators), make special announcements, engage people directly in ways through which everybody including you knows that it is him.

What about God? We have so many of them. None of them has any of their names or signature in nature in an objective way stating that they own anything. All we have are diffrent believers telling us that it is thir own version of God that owns the universe. How did you get to know that the planet we live in was created hy Yahweh and not Brahma? Over a billion people in the world today claim that Brahma created the universe, do you have any evidence apart from empty words to show that It is your own God that created the universe and not Brahma. If you try to seriously claim that nairaland is owned by someone else and not Seun and insisit that Seun is an impostor you will be banned for life and any moniker that you open will also be banned for life.

God is a human idea that is why different humans have conceived of different God ideas throughout history. Your own is just one out of the many ideas that have been conceived. Even within your religion there are many different concepts and ideas of how God should be and behave. That is why we have very different sects with totally different beliefs about how your God should behave and act. Take the mordern day word of faith property gospel Christians and the traditional christians and see how different they feel God should act or behave. That alone is enough evidence to show you that bit is all a man made venture.

Seun exist and has a unique moniker here on nairaland that nobody else has. His signature and status as owner exist and nobody can claim that nairaland is owned by someone else . God on the other hand depends on whose story you are listening to. The muslims insist that the universe belong to their God, the Hindus claim the same, the Taoist make the same claim, christians also, etc. Every culture and every group keep insisting that it is their own version and idea of God that owns the universe, none of them has been able to provide any evidence to support their claims.

Seun uses his moniker to make direct comments here on nairaland. As for God it all depends on who you are listening to. Even believers can not tell you exactly the message their God is sending. Just take an example with the speaking in tongues thread here and see how sincere christians are all disagreeing with each other on what the bible really says about speaking in tongues. No agreement at all, only disagreement and even name calling among themselves while laying claim to this holy spirit of confusion. No such thing has ever happened to any of Seun's messages here on nairaland. Go to the thread and use the holy spirit to end the dispute and disagreement btw your fellow christians on the true biblical position on speaking in tongues. Shebi you always insist that you have the holy spirit, will you go there and demonstrate that this your holy spirit is real and not a figment of your deluded imaginations? Put your money where your mouth is and go there and settle the disagreement using the holy spirit let's see how far you'll go. Show some actions, we are tired of your empty claims.

I can insist that Allah is God and that the universe belongs to him and nothing will ever happen to me. I can insist that the uinverse has no owner and nothing will ever happen to me. Try and insisit that someone else owns nairaland or claim that Seun doesn't own nairaland with all seriousness and see what will happen to you.

vaxx:
first of all, i am not antiscience. so i do not know why you reply me as if i am attacking science. please understand the bone of discussion before you jump into it. let me ask you a question , have you bothered why elon musk is trying to colonize mars? have you ever wonder why there is disagreement between mark zuckerberg and elon musk over the invention of Artificial Intelligence...and likewise have you ever wonder why the world is crying of global warming?

It was a mistake. I wanted to reply another post. Global warming is a thing of the past. As at late last year, continued declines in ozone depleting emissions are expected to result in a near complete recovery of the ozone layer near themiddle of the 21st century. The long time scale for this recovery is due to the slow rate at which ODS are removed from the atmosphere by natural processes. More so the ozone repletion project is on.
Read extensively and you will see that scientists donot expect a successfull colonization of mars any time soon instead the idea will birth more advanced technology to raise the standard of living at result of trying to conquer world with harsh environmental onditions.

ZirdoRoray:


It was a mistake. I wanted to reply another post. Global warming is a thing of the past. As at late last year, continued declines in ozone depleting emissions are expected to result in a near complete recovery of the ozone layer near themiddle of the 21st century. The long time scale for this recovery is due to the slow rate at which ODS are removed from the atmosphere by natural processes. More the ozone repletion project is on.
Read extensively and you will see that scientists donot expect a successfull colonization of mars any time soon instead the idea will birth more advanced technology to raise the standard of living at result of trying to conquer world with harsh environmental onditions.

read extensively bro ...it good you know.... i do not debate in cycle..... ensure you focus on who to reply nextime

vaxx:
FAITH knows , logic thinks

Faith knows nothing! Those who have faith have just, assumed knowledge, mostly based on the little they actually know. What they do is take their insignificant amount of unquestioned accepted facts as the truth of things, and nothing but the truth.

Logic is the art of thinking. I don't know about you, but when I'm thinking of something, I am learning. And when I'm learning, I don't have to assume anymore. I know. That's what I think conscious people do; they think, and thereby, learn.

Logic ensures the limits of what is known keeps getting busted. It allows the 'what we knows', to increase. "Do not build you thought on unsound foundations", after, all says the word?!

First you threw the 'definition of nature' thing at me, then, "you don't know what faith means, buda", now you flinging logic too. Are you trying to distract from explaining, vaxx?

budaatum:

Faith knows nothing! Those who have faith have just, assumed knowledge, mostly based on the little they actually know. What they do is take their insignificant amount of unquestioned accepted facts as the truth of things, and nothing but the truth.

Logic is the art of thinking. I don't know about you, but when I'm thinking of something, I am learning. And when I'm learning, I don't have to assume anymore. I know. That's what I think conscious people do; they think, and thereby, learn.

Logic ensures the limits of what is known keeps getting busted. It allows the 'what we knows', to increase. "Do not build you thought on unsound foundations", after, all says the word?!

First you threw the 'definition of nature' thing at me, then, "you don't know what faith means, buda", now you flinging logic too. Are you trying to distract from explaining, vaxx?

can you prove faith knows nothing.... i will be waiting... lets start with that first? you will end up proving science knows nothing bet me

i throw the definition of nature according to science to you , just to let you know you are tintingz are both wrong on the meaning you attached to it.

what do you mean by i am trying to distract from explanation. i do not really get it''

modik:


Who can question God?

Ask Job his experience for questioning God.
Job 4:17

So are you scared of an imaginary being or afraid to employ logic in this matter? Using your "God-given" brain to deliberate courageously on religious issues means you will burn in hell forever right? Who can question God, YOU CAN!

Especially when God creates only Adam and Eve punishes them and all of humanity forever in his infinite compassion, watches Cain kill Abel, rewards Cain for doing so and doesn't tell us how cain got a wife to bear his sons.
It is either Cain was sexing his own sister which the Bible never talked about or he was Sexing his mother to bear his sons. In either case, God is the Author of incest. Someone give God a round of Applause!!

vaxx:
can you prove faith knows nothing.... i will be waiting... lets start with that first?

No! We already have a start. Let us not confuse ourselves by creating another start!

You said, "what if i say science evidence is rested on faith".

I said, "explain".

ScienceWatch:
Are you really an enlightened one? Did you post the topic "The Gospel Of John - A Study?" I dare any intelligent Atheist to give a better idea of God than John.
I am trying to pinch you to see if you are responding. Wake up from your slumber and look around you. Christianity is rapidly growing world wide because of the tons of scientifically verifiable evidence that John's Gospel and all the gospels contained in the Holy Bible written more than 2000 years ago is true.

God said, "Let there be light." Scientists have long agreed that everything material is made of light.

O lo lu fẹ ẹ mi atata. O tọ'jọ meta. Ni bo lo lọ ti a ko fi ri ọ? K'abọ.

budaatum:

No! We already have a start. Let us not confuse ourselves by creating another start!

You said, "what if i say science evidence is rested on faith".

I said, "explain".

i have already quoted you on it. check your mentions, or do you want to repeat myself.... you have not reply it yet.

dalaman:


. Butterflyl1on come and see Yahweh ordering someone to eat human faeces.

Dont try to shame faithfools. They will eat shit to prove God exists.

ZirdoRoray:


Though you didn't address my comment properly and decided dodge it with that bible version, I will still roll with ya.

Hebrews: 13. 8. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and for ever.

If Jesus is God therefore:
God mercilessly kills everyone, young and old. He even causes women to eat their children. Lamentations 2:20-22.

And God in his infinite mercy watch Philip die in Hieropolis, Turkey by hanging..lol.

God gave power to the Pharaoh so that he could show off his own power by killing him. Exodus 9:15-16
Why couldn't God also prove himself by saving his apostles?..lol

Wot u term save, is a very subjective term, because death can be bad and yet a blessing. God doesn't see death d way u see it. Death is birth for a true believer but torment for a God hater. Tell me y u reject God. When all he commands us is d display of love, kindness, humility, forgiveness, generosity.

Honestly, this arguments shldnt be taking place if not for d inherent hatred d atheists posses that makes them detest religion and rebel against it with mad anger. They don't mind reading d whole of d Bible over and over just to pick holes.Wot then do u achieve? When u successfully confuse a Christian, what do u point him to instead? It amazes me cos u r pple with large vacuums inside of u who r crazily looking for answers to d numerous questions Lurking in ur head about existence.Y do u wish to bring pple who hv reasons to live, motivations for life and purpose for existence into ur strange world of confusion and unending questions abt ur basic existence?
I have God, I hv bliss, and no unending questions ,pls provide me with an alternative to God. Give me ur version of d world and reasons for existence. Show me d way since u knw better.

sonofluc1fer:

Dont try to shame faithfools. They will eat shit to prove God exists.

Butterflyl1on the faithfool will now start outlining the nutritional value of human faeces when eaten

ZirdoRoray:


So are you scared of an imaginary being or afraid to employ logic in this matter? Using your "God-given" brain to deliberate courageously on religious issues means you will burn in hell forever right? Who can question God, YOU CAN!

Especially when God creates only Adam and Eve punishes them and all of humanity forever in his infinite compassion, watches Cain kill Abel, rewards Cain for doing so and doesn't tell us how cain got a wife to bear his sons.
It is either Cain was sexing his own sister which the Bible never talked about or he was Sexing his mother to bear his sons. In either case, God is the Author of incest. Someone give God a round of Applause!!

The same way a building questions the builder why reconstruct me, or the pot questioning the Potter, why break me?


Isiah 29:16
Lol.

butterflyl1on:


Yet as far more complex as a universe is from a website, a website has a designer yet the universe doesn't.

The man who designed the website IS EXTREMELY MORE COMPLEX THAN THE WEBSITE, therefore the God who designed the universe MUST BE ENORMOUSLY MORE COMPLEX THAN THE UNIVERSE TOO, and if complexity implies design, who designed the one who designed the universe? And who designed whoever designed that one too? Don't you get it? This argument is dead----it kills itself deader than the coldest corpse.

What's more, I told you earlier that the universe is an entirely different ball game, compared to the website. Man created the website from already existing raw materials. Did God create the universe from pre-existing materials that he didn't create out of the blue----out of absolutely nothing?

Despite the fact that the universe is consciously compartmentalised and segmented into smaller parts that work ťogether to make a whole and has been proven to have a beginning

The OBSERVABLE UNIVERSE is proven to have a beginning. The universe might go beyond that. The universe created at the Big Bang might just be the transformation of pre-existing energy of a completely different form, changing into a new form, AND THE BIG BANG WAS THE BEGINNING OF THAT FORM, not necessarily the beginning of THE UNIVERSE. The universe can be eternal.

yet you say it has no designer behind the simple cohesion in it despite its huge complexity?

Does this COMPLEX DESIGNER (he MUST be) also have a designer, and does his designer have a designer too? This dead argument will ALWAYS summon an infinite regress, and there can be NO SPECIAL PLEADING.

So much balance is found in this complex universe which could not have been there by a stroke of luck or by no intelligent source behind it.

So how can you explain this complexity known as the universe having all this simple cohesion in it that somehow supports life for us and does not kill us? Even the sun as powerful yet mindless as it is which ordinarily can roast the earth easily is restrained from doing so by the same simple cohesion found in the universe. Instead of roasting us it blesses our planet with life supporting rays of light and also blesses us with much needed vitamin D From its rays.

Could this mindless giant known as the sun be this deliberately gentle that it would not just care for and care about our planet but also care for and care about us as people on the planet. Can unintelligence by some stroke of luck achieve this?

The universe might have MIND FUNDAMENTAL TO IT. It gave rise to beings with consciousness and intelligence. How can a system which is at root MINDLESS achieve that? The universe can have its own mind.

vaxx:
ok i will....since we all have different perspective , science work with axioms which aid in experimental of data and logical deduction . these axioms can not be proved and without it science will be meaningless...

If you a lover of Scientific procedure and you do not understand how all scientific findings rest on a foundation of unprovable assumptions, the axioms, then there is a big gap in your basic understanding of how Science works. the starting point of science investigation is rested on assumptions.... there is a coined name for it . it is called hypothesis.

This assumptions is rested on two gigantic faith principle... it goes thus

1 Principle of intelligibility (that secrets of nature can be unlocked by human mind).

2 Principle of objectification. (that all of human experience can be objectified).

so whenever uncertain principle are discover , science suffer a major blow..... for example why is big bang not repeatable, why does it happen once. instead of continues time and so on

You can read further from here ......http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Is_This_Thing_Called_Science%3F

budaatum this is my response as to why science is faith base.....

OkCornel:


Exactly...something eternal cannot result from something temporary or imaginary...

The existence of the Universe should validate the existence of the Eternal Creator...

If the universe is eternal, then there's no need for an eternal creator. An eternal thing BY DEFINITION has no creator. So an eternal creator and an eternal universe coexisting is a contradiction----an irreconcilable paradox.

If the universe is everything, and it is in itself eternal----then EVERYTHING EXISTS IN THE UNIVERSE.

Seun:
If God owned Nairaland, he would not operate any account on Nairaland.

He would communicate the rules by sending anonymous messages to random members, the chosen.

The rules presented by each chosen member would contradict the rules presented by the others.

There would be no way of knowing which chosen member had the correct rules.

People would just choose to follow whichever rules the person who invited them to the forum happened to follow.

There would be brutal flame-wars between the people following different sets of rules.

For each set of rules given by the chosen members, there would be multiple interpretations by random members.

The interpreters would claim to have received anonymous clues from the owner which they used to interpret the rules.

There would be brutal flame-wars between people following different interpretations of each set of rules.

Most of the chosen would have deleted their accounts and all posts in which they originally presented their rules.

There would be multiple versions of each set of rules floating about, with no way of knowing if any is correct.

People who broke the rules wouldn't be banned, because the chosen and the interpreters wouldn't have any actual powers.

Interpreters would threaten those who broke their rules that the owner would kill them after they deactivated their accounts.

The most famous interpreter would say that all rules are equally important: typos and posting porn pictures are the same.

That all members have broken the rules, so they deserve to be killed by the owner after they deactivate their accounts.

--

But there's good news: the owner's son joined the forum, and he presented his own version of the rules.

Though he was the only member who never broke any rule, his account was deactivated for the sins of the rule-breakers.

But the account was reactivated later and he was not killed because he was found to be innocent of rule-breaking.

And after his account was reactivated, he sent anonymous messages to some interpreters who are no longer active.

Therefore any rule-breaker who believes that the owner's son's account was deactivated for his errors shall not be killed!

The owner created a new forum, much better than Nairaland, which his son's believers shall be invited to any time now.

The son's profile was transferred to the new forum 3 minutes after reactivation, which is why it cannot be viewed.

But some members recall that some members said that some interpreters said they saw the son's reactivated profile.

--

What a mess that would be.

This post DESTROYED this thread and OBLITERATED the OP.

I need to see the quotes it got and the sort of mental gymnastics the responders performed.

vaxx:
faith is more powerful than logic

Nigga, I hope you know this is how madness starts? How can you make a statement like this? How does it sound to you?

vaxx:
FAITH knows , logic thinks

Seriously, are you for real?

Tohzara:
The man who designed the website IS EXTREMELY MORE COMPLEX THAN THE WEBSITE, therefore the God who designed the universe MUST BE ENORMOUSLY MORE COMPLEX THAN THE UNIVERSE TOO, and if complexity implies design, who designed the one who designed the universe?
And who designed whoever designed that one too?
Don't you get it?
This argument is dead----it kills itself deader than the coldest corpse

Nothing
because Whoever designed the universe is the Caused First Cause

Tohzara:
What's more, I told you earlier that the universe is an entirely different ball game, compared to the website. Man created the website from already existing raw materials.
Did God create the universe from pre-existing materials that he didn't create out of the blue----out of absolutely nothing

No, God called out and/or calls the things that are not, as though they were

Tohzara:
The OBSERVABLE UNIVERSE is proven to have a beginning. The universe might go beyond that. The universe created at the Big Bang might just be the transformation of pre-existing energy of a completely different form, changing into a new form, AND THE BIG BANG WAS THE BEGINNING OF THAT FORM, not necessarily the beginning of THE UNIVERSE. The universe can be eternal

The universe is subjected to God, not the other way round

Tohzara:
Does this COMPLEX DESIGNER (he MUST be) also have a designer, and does his designer have a designer too? This dead argument will ALWAYS summon an infinite regress, and there can be NO SPECIAL PLEADING

No, the Designer doesn't have a designer.
The designer is an unmoved Mover

Tohzara:
The universe might have MIND FUNDAMENTAL TO IT. It gave rise to beings with consciousness and intelligence.
How can a system which is at root MINDLESS achieve that? The universe can have its own mind.

Again, the universe is subjected to Nature, which essentially is God.
Out of the ground, out of the universe everything came out from, out of it was man made.
Without God, the universe is an empty.
It won't make sense without a God
In the beginning the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep

Tohzara:
Nigga, I hope you know this is how madness starts? How can you make a statement like this? How does it sound to you?

It makes sense, spiritually.

Faith is more powerful than logic. Without faith, how else will you believe an Israelite died for sins you never committed. Say one Adam for one garden for the middle east vex im god, so all the human beings wey full dis world come dey sin, God come send im pikin to die for us, so im fit forgive us.

Faith - the power by which bullshit makes sense. And it's an awesome, awesome drug.... cures all spiritual and physical maladies.. all.. if it doesn't cure yours, check your dosage.

MuttleyLaff:
Nothing
because Whoever designed the universe is the caused first cause

God called out and/or calls the things that are not, as though they were

The universe is subjected to God, not the other way round

No, the Designer doesn't have a designer.
The designer is an unmoved Mover

Again, the universe is subjected to Nature, which essentially is God.
Out of the ground, out of the universe everything came out from, out of it was man made.
Without God, the universe is an empty.
It won't make sense without a God
In the beginning the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep

Exactly. A world without God won't make sense to you.

sonofluc1fer:
Exactly.
A world without God won't make sense to you.

Chaotic
Don't sweat it.

Tohzara:
Nigga, I hope you know this is how madness starts? How can you make a statement like this? How does it sound to you?

if you are looking for someone to insult, then avoid to quote me. what i expect you as a person is to counter the evidence. i guess you have a narrow mind......

Ronpet777:


Wot u term save, is a very subjective term, because death can be bad and yet a blessing. God doesn't see death d way u see it. Death is birth for a true believer but torment for a God hater. Tell me y u reject God. When all he commands us is d display of love, kindness, humility, forgiveness, generosity.

Honestly, this arguments shldnt be taking place if not for d inherent hatred d atheists posses that makes them detest religion and rebel against it with mad anger. They don't mind reading d whole of d Bible over and over just to pick holes.Wot then do u achieve? When u successfully confuse a Christian, what do u point him to instead? It amazes me cos u r pple with large vacuums inside of u who r crazily looking for answers to d numerous questions Lurking in ur head about existence.Y do u wish to bring pple who hv reasons to live, motivations for life and purpose for existence into ur strange world of confusion and unending questions abt ur basic existence?
I have God, I hv bliss, and no unending questions ,pls provide me with an alternative to God. Give me ur version of d world and reasons for existence. Show me d way since u knw better.

Ignorance is bliss

Tohzara:
Seriously, are you for real?

what do you mean?

MuttleyLaff:
Nothing
because Whoever designed the universe is the caused first cause

If the universe is eternal, it's its own cause, and a first cause becomes superflous and meaningless.

God called out and/or calls the things that are not, as though they were

Creation out of nothing is impossible. There's no such thing as nothingness. Nothingness is meanigless and undefined. It is NOTHING (!).

The universe is subjected to God, not the other way round

Which God? No argument so far has been able to establish his existence. Your house of cards just keep collapsing.

No, the Designer doesn't have a designer.
The designer is an unmoved Mover

The universe doesn't have a designer. It is self-propelling.

Again, the universe is subjected to Nature, which essentially is God.
Out of the ground, out of the universe everything came out from, out of it was man made.
Without God, the universe is an empty.
It won't make sense without a God
In the beginning the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep

You can rap.

sonofluc1fer:


It makes sense, spiritually.

Faith is more powerful than logic. Without faith, how else will you believe an Israelite died for sins you never committed. Say one Adam for one garden for the middle east vex im god, so all the human beings wey full dis world come dey sin, God come send im pikin to die for us, so im fit forgive us.

Faith - the power by which bullshit makes sense. And it's an awesome, awesome drug.... cures all spiritual and physical maladies.. all.. if it doesn't cure yours, check your dosage.

you see your issue. you guys are narrow minded, defining faith base on religious meaning. will you guys think out of the box for once

[s]

Seun:
If God owned Nairaland, he would not operate any account on Nairaland.

He would communicate the rules by sending anonymous messages to random members, the chosen.

The rules presented by each chosen member would contradict the rules presented by the others.

There would be no way of knowing which chosen member had the correct rules.

People would just choose to follow whichever rules the person who invited them to the forum happened to follow.

There would be brutal flame-wars between the people following different sets of rules.

For each set of rules given by the chosen members, there would be multiple interpretations by random members.

The interpreters would claim to have received anonymous clues from the owner which they used to interpret the rules.

There would be brutal flame-wars between people following different interpretations of each set of rules.

Most of the chosen would have deleted their accounts and all posts in which they originally presented their rules.

There would be multiple versions of each set of rules floating about, with no way of knowing if any is correct.

People who broke the rules wouldn't be banned, because the chosen and the interpreters wouldn't have any actual powers.

Interpreters would threaten those who broke their rules that the owner would kill them after they deactivated their accounts.

The most famous interpreter would say that all rules are equally important: typos and posting porn pictures are the same.

That all members have broken the rules, so they deserve to be killed by the owner after they deactivate their accounts.

--

But there's good news: the owner's son joined the forum, and he presented his own version of the rules.

Though he was the only member who never broke any rule, his account was deactivated for the sins of the rule-breakers.

But the account was reactivated later and he was not killed because he was found to be innocent of rule-breaking.

And after his account was reactivated, he sent anonymous messages to some interpreters who are no longer active.

Therefore any rule-breaker who believes that the owner's son's account was deactivated for his errors shall not be killed!

The owner created a new forum, much better than Nairaland, which his son's believers shall be invited to any time now.

The son's profile was transferred to the new forum 3 minutes after reactivation, which is why it cannot be viewed.

But some members recall that some members said that some interpreters said they saw the son's reactivated profile.

--

What a mess that would be.

[/s]


rubbish analogy.

vaxx:
if you are looking for someone to insult, then avoid to quote me. what i expect as person is to counter the evidence. i guess you have a narrow mind......

Lol.

You people have a very warped and ridiculous concept of enlightenment, civilization and intelligence.

I'm neither polite nor politically correct, and it's neither a vice nor a flaw. I'll tell you the fücking truth. Forget all that emotional shiit.

Politeness isn't analogous to enlightenment.

Emmanystone:

Oh babe, it's only Natural and fair to reciprocate the love that dude showered on you for years

It's not easy to find a man who will fawn on you for that long nau.

Who knows where logicboy/JackBizzle is?

He can kiss my fuzzy black ass wherever he is