Kachills:

So why do you charge murderers with a double murder if they kill a pregnant woman?

I had no idea that a person that murders a pregnant woman is charged with double murders, so I did a Google search.
Here is what I found;

In about half of US jurisdictions, the murder of a pregnant woman will yield two separate criminal charges: one count of murder, for the death of the woman, and one count of feticide , for the death of the fetus. The name of this offense may vary from state to state; for example, in my state the charge is 720 ILCS 5/9-1.2, intentional homicide of an unborn child. 720 ILCS 5/9-1, murder, cannot be charged with respect to the death of the fetus because a fetus is not a person for the purposes of the Illinois Criminal Code.
https://www.quora.com/If-abortion-is-not-considered-murder-then-why-is-it-considered-double-homicide-when-a-pregnant-woman-is-killed

So you see, the law still doesn't recognise a fetus as a person (child).

It will be impossible to apply such law to a woman who aborts her own fetus.

Hello house, who is ready to go into used car scrapping business with me, it is very lucrative and less stressful business...

There is already 100 customers to each item imported.
The customer base is much and within 2 days a whole container is gone and cash paid in full...

I bet you will enjoy the business because it is 90% better than car sales.

SonofLincoln:
Firstly, I am against abortion and I have said it here several times. I and my siblings went through parochial schools all our lives and my children all did too. What I said is the charging double murder in case of abortion depends on the State the murder occurred. What part of that is hard to comprehend.

I asked someone else a question, you responded to that question that's why I said you didn't answer the question and repeated it. Since you don't have an answer to my question, I'll wait for wirinet to answer it then.

uchman:
Hello house, who is ready to go into used car scrapping business with me, it is very lucrative and less stressful business...

There is already 100 customers to each item imported.
The customer base is much and within 2 days a whole container is gone and cash paid in full...

I bet you will enjoy the business because it is 90% better than car sales.

DM me if you’re serious.

I would love to learn about the business.

wirinet:


I had no idea that a person that murders a pregnant woman is charged with double murders, so I did a Google search.
Here is what I found;



So you see, the law still doesn't recognise a fetus as a person (child).

What of the rest of the country? You are referring or the person you quoted was referring to the state of illinois (I will still look that up cos I think he is lying). Anyway, you still have to answer for the rest of the country.

[s]

SonofLincoln:
Obviously, you must be typing your junk from your village. Kelly is up in double digits in Arizona and Georgia is tied while Shorty midget Lindsey is fighting for his political life in South Carolina. You think Faux News is the only Station in America. We have hundreds of TV Stations that you can't even see in Nigeria but you people swallow the junk you are being fed by the same people who hates people that looks like you.

[/s]

Alexandre7:


DM me if you’re serious.

I would love to learn about the business.

Good evening,
Already done that,
please check your inbox.

Kachills:

I asked someone else a question, you responded to that question that's why I said you didn't answer the question and repeated it. Since you don't have an answer to my question, I'll wait for wirinet to answer it then.

I gave you the answer but you don't want to hear the truth. It's called State laws.

Wirinet, I just looked up the illinois statute and just as I suspected, the person you quoted from quora was lying. Illinois actually punishes the killing of unborn children as murder with the only exception being when it is done during an abortion with the consent of the mother. The illinois laws define "unborn child" as any individual of the human species from fertilization until birth. The question still remains, if the fetus is not alive and just a clump of cells as you guys argue, then why charge people with their murder? Can you kill a non living thing?

SonofLincoln:
I gave you the answer but you don't want to hear the truth. It's called State laws.

You didn't answer the question.

Ok, let me make it simple, why do state laws charge people with murder when they kill an unborn child?

SonofLincoln:
Firstly, I am against abortion and I have said it here several times. I and my siblings went through parochial schools all our lives and my children all did too. What I said is the charging double murder in case of abortion depends on the State the murder occurred. What part of that is hard to comprehend.

Boss, the day I saw a new born floating in the lagoon toward the sea, behind NPA (also behind School of Oceanography, Bar Beach ). I became pro choice forever. The baby was born overnight and dumped directly into the Lagos lagoon. My wife also said that while living in Navy Town, Ojo, she and others had witnessed a baby dumped inside a dump heap and covered in ants. Luckily the baby was rescued. If you hear many atrocities that happens as a consequence of women not wanting to have babies, and not being able to abort, you will puke.

I know you cannot force a woman to love, care and nurture a baby she definitely does not want, all because you want to punish her for her sexual "immorality" not caring for the fate of the baby once it's born.

Kachills:

What of the rest of the country? You are referring or the person you quoted was referring to the state of illinois (I will still look that up cos I think he is lying). Anyway, you still have to answer for the rest of the country.

I am lying about State Laws in America and you that only dream of America is telling the truth. What an irony. State legislative bodies determine their laws and most Red States will charge the murder of pregnant lady as double murder why most Blue States will not charge it as Double murder. The problem with you guys that don't know anything about America except the junks you get from Right wing blogs is that you think of yourself as American political experts from several thousands miles away.

wirinet:


Boss, the day I saw a new born floating in the lagoon toward the sea, behind NPA (also behind School of Oceanography, Bar Beach ). I became pro choice forever. The baby was born overnight and dumped directly into the Lagos lagoon. My wife also said that while living in Navy Town, Ojo, she and others had witnessed a baby dumped inside a dump heap and covered in ants. Luckily the baby was rescued. If you hear many atrocities that happens as a consequence of women not wanting to have babies, and not being able to abort, you will puke.

I know you cannot force a woman to love, care and nurture a baby she definitely does not want, all because you want to punish her for her sexual "immorality" not caring for the fate of the baby once it's born.

That's true but my opposition to abortion comes from my parochial upbringing. I don't really care what a woman does with her body because I won't enforce my morality on anyone. I know my wife never had an abortion and I pray non of my 3 daughters will but that's their choice. That's how I am different from the Republicons.

Kachills:
Wirinet, I just looked up the illinois statute and just as I suspected, the person you quoted from quora was lying. Illinois actually punishes the killing of unborn children as murder with the only exception being when it is done during an abortion with the consent of the mother. The illinois laws define "unborn child" as any individual of the human species from fertilization until birth. The question still remains, if the fetus is not alive and just a clump of cells as you guys argue, then why charge people with their murder? Can you kill a non living thing?

As I said I knew nothing about double murders statutes of pregnant women in the US, and so had to rely on Google (and probably you) to educate me.

Having said that, your response above justifies my stance that a woman can never murder her fetus under any US law. You even said that the exception if the abortion is done with the consent of the mother.

SonofLincoln:
I am lying about State Laws in America and you that only dream of America is telling the truth. What an irony. State legislative bodies determine their laws and most Red States will charge the murder of pregnant lady as double murder why most Blue States will not charge it as Double murder. The problem with you guys that don't know anything about America except the junks you get from Right wing blogs is that you think of yourself as American political experts from several thousands miles away.

Firstly, I am right here in the states and why do you jump into posts addressed to others and pick fights with people over things that aren't even related to you? Could you do me a favor and read the post I made to wirinet again and show me where I said you were lying? And you are wrong about the blue state/red state thing. The state of illinois where I believe you reside, charges people with manslaughter for the death of unborn children.

wirinet:


As I said I knew nothing about double murders statutes of pregnant women in the US, and so had to rely on Google (and probably you) to educate me.

Have said that, your response above justifies my stance that a woman can never murder her fetus under any US law. You even said that the exception if the abortion is done with the consent of the mother.

This is what you get when you jump into an argument without knowing the crux of the matter. Wirinet said unborn children are not alive, they only become living beings after they are born so I asked the question then why are people charged with killing unborn babies, surely you can't kill something that was never alive in the first place. If you charge people with the murder of unborn children then that is an admission that the unborn children were alive in the womb.

Kachills:

Firstly, I am right here in the states and why do you jump into posts addressed to others and pick fights with people over things that aren't even related to you? Could you do me a favor and read the post I made to wirinet again and show me where I said you were lying? And you are wrong about the blue state/red state thing. The state of illinois where I believe you reside, charges people with manslaughter for the death of unborn children.

Kachills:

Firstly, I am right here in the states and why do you jump into posts addressed to others and pick fights with people over things that aren't even related to you? Could you do me a favor and read the post I made to wirinet again and show me where I said you were lying? And you are wrong about the blue state/red state thing. The state of illinois where I believe you reside, charges people with manslaughter for the death of unborn children.

Read your post again and you will see where you told wirinet the the person you are referring to lives in Illinois and you believe he's lying. What does that say about you if you can't remember what you posted less than 30 minutes ago.

I am just so happy with this news earlier posted on the thread. Literally made made my week. It's tough not to be able to vote all due to the poll tax created by the evil governor of Florida. We should expect a mini mike tweet from Trump soon

God bless Bloomberg.

wirinet:


Boss, the day I saw a new born floating in the lagoon toward the sea, behind NPA (also behind School of Oceanography, Bar Beach ). I became pro choice forever. The baby was born overnight and dumped directly into the Lagos lagoon. My wife also said that while living in Navy Town, Ojo, she and others had witnessed a baby dumped inside a dump heap and covered in ants. Luckily the baby was rescued. If you hear many atrocities that happens as a consequence of women not wanting to have babies, and not being able to abort, you will puke.

I know you cannot force a woman to love, care and nurture a baby she definitely does not want, all because you want to punish her for her sexual "immorality" not caring for the fate of the baby once it's born.

This argument lacks merit because there are many institutions more than ready to take in unwanted kids and care for them or put them up for adoption. So the callous throwing away of kids has to do with the wickedness and careless disregard for human life by the mother not because the kids won't be taken care of if she doesn't want them. The other thing is that we are not pro life because we want to punish people for immorality, we are pro life because we believe in the sanctity of human life both born and unborn. There are many common sense options available for women who are sexually active to avoid unwanted pregnancies.

SonofLincoln:
Read your post again and you will see where you told wirinet the the person you are referring to lives in Illinois and you believe he's lying. What does that say about you if you can't remember what you posted less than 30 minutes ago.

He quoted someone on quora and the person on quora said he lives in illinois, I wasn't referring to you.

Kachills:

He quoted someone on quora and the person on quora said he lives in illinois, I wasn't referring to you.

Ok my bad. Apology tendered.

SonofLincoln:
Ok my bad. Apology tendered.

This is how conversation should go!

I will be happy if you continue this way.

God bless

wirinet:


As I said I knew nothing about double murders statutes of pregnant women in the US, and so had to rely on Google (and probably you) to educate me.

Have said that, your response above justifies my stance that a woman can never murder her fetus under any US law. You even said that the exception if the abortion is done with the consent of the mother.

My question was in response to you claim that unborn children are not alive and only become living beings when they are born. That's why I asked, if they are not alive in the womb, then why are people charged with murder for killing them? Do you charge people with murder for killing non living things? Can you even kill a non living thing?

Kachills:

This is what you get when you jump into an argument without knowing the crux of the matter. Wirinet said unborn children are not alive, they only become living beings after they are born so I asked the question then why are people charged with killing unborn babies, surely you can't kill something that was never alive in the first place. If you charge people with the murder of unborn children then that is an admission that the unborn children were alive in the womb.

I never said unborn children are not alive, afterall, a sperm is alive, an ovum is alive. Even a virus is alive. What I said was that a fetus is not legally recognised as a person (baby, child or human being), it is simply referred to an unborn baby or child. So, the argument was never whether it was alive or not.

Now answer this, in your state of illinois, can a pregnant woman be charged for murder for aborting her own baby? Can a person who performs an abortion with the consent of the lady in question be charged for murder?

Minent:


This is how conversation should go!

I will be happy if you continue this way.

God bless

Have any of you guys ever apologize when you get on other people. This is not my first time of doing it but I am not going to apologize for criticizing Trump that's is damaging a country that is dear to me and my family and 350 million people. When I am wrong , I will apologize. How do you think I have been married to the same wifey for a little over 20 years. I apologize all the time even when I am right to keep madam happy. If not , divorce is very expensive in US and like Bobby Blue Bland sang, IT'S CHEAPER TO KEEP HER. Lol.

wirinet:


I never said unborn children are not alive, afterall, a sperm is alive, an ovum is alive. Even a virus is alive. What I said was that a fetus is not legally recognised as a person (baby, child or human being), it is simply referred to an unborn baby or child. So, the argument was never whether it was alive or not.

Now answer this, in your state of illinois, can a pregnant woman be charged for murder for aborting her own baby? Can a person who performs an abortion with the consent of the lady in question?

I just read your post again, you are right, I misunderstood it the first time.

Kachills:

This argument lacks merit because there are many institutions more than ready to take in unwanted kids and care for them or put them up for adoption. So the callous throwing away of kids has to do with the wickedness and careless disregard for human life by the mother not because the kids won't be taken care of if she doesn't want them. The other thing is that we are not pro life because we want to punish people for immorality, we are pro life because we believe in the sanctity of human life both born and unborn. There are many common sense options available for women who are sexually active to avoid unwanted pregnancies.

Institutions more than ready to take in unwanted kids? Where? In third world countries like Nigeria or in developed world like US?
Where are these institutions when there are millions of unwanted and uncared for kids roaming our streets begging just to eat. The streets in the north have virtually been taken over by almajiris.

I agree with you about the callousness and inhumanity of throwing away or murdering babies, but then such callousness could be avoided if the lady has access to cheap, safe and early abortion option.

Most pro life advocates do so for religious reasons, I have never seen anyone of them actually care for the life of the babies after they have born, not to talk of sanctity of life in general.

Which options do you moral crusaders provide for sexually active women who don't want babies? Condoms, you condemn; birth control pills, you moralise; early abortion pills, you demonise and actual abortion no matter how early, you criminalise. So what options do you say are available save chastity or marriage?

When US we start having child issue like Spain and Russia that when does defending Abortion will know how Bad it is

Kachills:
A bit of reality check to those liberals that are having pipe dreams about admitting DC and puerto rico as two new states, you are going to be needing republican votes to achieve that. Assuming a situation where democrats control both the Senate and the White House, Constitutionally, you will need 2/3 of the Senate to vote to admit them, that 67 votes and if they invoke cloture, they will still need 60 votes to overcome the filibuster. AmazonTopaz and Sonoflincoln should tell us where they intend to get these 60 votes from. Remember that one Democrat senator is already a dead man walking in Alabama.

LOL you are not well read even many analyst are seeing a statehood very likely.
You want to know how?first if the dems are smart they should expand the courts to forsee any legal trouble after nuking the fillibuster.If they have expanded the courts there is no way in hell that after nuking the fillibuster DC and PR cannot become states.It is not a pipedream Mr it is very possible if the democrats play dirty like the republicans if they can nuke the fillibuster there will be no need for 60 or 67 votes.
Making DC and PR a state is not the first thing they will do expanding the courts will be the first step to cement that possibility incase it is challenged in court.

Hyperchi:
When US we start having child issue like Spain and Russia that when does defending Abortion will know how Bad it is

Which one be child issues?or do you believe that safe abortion prevents fertility na lie .Explain abeg
Abortion is no way bad depending on the legality in the said country.
Safe abortion has been happening in the US.

If you are so concerned about children help the needy ones that are less privileged.Also campaign for safe contraceptives and ways to practice safe sex to avoid issues like abortion

Maybe when conservatives support family planning and birth control with easy access to them abortion will be a thing of the past.You should not force a mother to take care of a child she does not want.

wirinet:

Institutions more than ready to take in unwanted kids? Where? In third world countries like Nigeria or in developed world like US?
Where are these institutions when there are millions of unwanted and uncared for kids roaming our streets begging just to eat. The streets in the north have virtually been taken over by almajiris.

I agree with you about the callousness and inhumanity of throwing away or murdering babies, but then such callousness could be avoided if the lady has access to cheap, safe and early abortion option.

Most pro life advocates do so for religious reasons, I have never seen anyone of them actually care for the life of the babies after they have born, not to talk of sanctity of life in general.

Which options do you moral crusaders provide for sexually active women who don't want babies? Condoms, you condemn; birth control pills, you moralise; early abortion pills, you demonise and actual abortion no matter how early, you criminalise. So what options do you say are available save chastity or marriage?

@bold very correct they are not even addressing the real issue and what leads to abortion.