Livelystone01:

I've seen your arguments here and I want to commend you for your civility, but what I noticed about your assertions is that you accuse others of being biased of the same things you do.

You feel people hate Trump because of the media, which is wrong. Trump acted foolishly like he was a god, he never cared about the consequences of his words, which you and I know that politicians will capitalize against him.

My boss loved Trump before he became president, but I saw him talk negatively about him afterwards because he saw that Trump was too stubborn to operate like the POTUS.
I'm talking about one who travels to and from the US frequently.

Now, I fault your opinion about bias because you are also bias.

I don't even want to go on about how you faulted black people protesting all because "you felt" they should move on from the past.

Trump's bad behavior is there to see yet people think it's media, I used to think after Trump won in 2016 he will tone down and act like a proper president instead he got worse.

Any little disagreement even with his own appointees who comes to Twitter to attack them, he made everything about himself and ego it's no surprise Americans were more divided under him

Obrigardo:


I didn't want to quote this idiot but seems these trump cultists don't even know what they are doing at anytime.

Can y'all believe Arizona is looking for BAMBOO FIBERS on ballots? That's the whole reason for this recount fraud.. they are looking for BAMBOO FIBERS on ballots they believed were transported from China into Arizona

When you now know the reason they are this foolish and then see an idiot spouting nonsense from his own brain here, you just shake your head and laugh at this cultists dense ignorance.

Bamboo fibers

Why is Brennan petionining DOJ to stop rhe audit. Because if bamboo fibers?

Livelystone01:

¹I've seen your arguments here and I want to commend you for your civility, but what I noticed about your assertions is that you accuse others of being biased of the same things you do.

You feel people hate Trump because of the media, which is wrong. Trump acted foolishly like he was a god, he never cared about the consequences of his words, which you and I know that politicians will capitalize against him.

My boss loved Trump before he became president, but I saw him talk negatively about him afterwards because he saw that Trump was too stubborn to operate like the POTUS.
I'm talking about one who travels to and from the US frequently.

Now, I fault your opinion about bias because you are also bias.

I don't even want to go on about how you faulted black people protesting all because "you felt" they should move on from the past.

1: I don't remember ever saying I am not bias. Infact I usually say the opposite. I usually say we are all bias. My reason for saying budaatum was partial was because the time I said the media all deceived us both the leftwing and rightwing media he still tried to make it about left vs right when that was not the case.

Everybody loved trump before the election and I don't. He was all over the leftwing media. Shows here and there. Even when he started going after Obama the media did not attack him. They did not support him but they did not sure any malice towards him. But the moment trump ran as a republican. All of a sudden he has been white Supremacist all these time. Racist, criminal etc. No kind of allegation they haven't spread about him.

That alone is the reason why I support trump because the left are too power hungry.

During Obama when the senate and house was with the Republicans... They could have impeached Obama but they didn't.

sanpipita:


Trump's bad behavior is there to see yet people think it's media, I used to think after Trump won in 2016 he will tone down and act like a proper president instead he got worse.

Any little disagreement even with his own appointees who comes to Twitter to attack them, he made everything about himself and ego it's no surprise Americans were more divided under him

Exactly.
How can a president do his sacking on twitter and his supporters still cheer him on? Anyway, that's their opinion and I don't have a right to judge anyone for what or who they choose to support.

My only surprise is that Trump's supporters think the media is his biggest problem when he is his own number one enemy.

One thing I understand with most people where I live is that they always blame others for their errors. Nobody wants to take responsibility for their foolish actions anymore.
Trump's pride is what hasn't allowed him to accept his defeat in peace. I wonder how he sleeps at night.
The Arizona recount and audit is looking like a joke already.
Do you mean to tell me that for all the days they've been doing checks nothing has been seen?
Now they are checking for bamboo?
Lord have mercy!
SMH.

budaatum:

McConnell wouldn't vote to admit trump caused Jan 6 riots but immediately afterwards shamelessly says, “The mob was fed lies. They were provoked by the president and other powerful people.” That's a level defining statement if ever I heard one.

I think a rationale person will choke if they are in front of the telly with their impressionable child hearing a President of the United States talking about pussy grabbing or claiming they can shoot people on New York streets and get away with it. The last election showed he can't get away with half a million dying on his watch. It would be a betrayal of the dead missing at anyone's dining table if they voted for trump, but some can't just understand that, yet I bet if a member of their tribe was killed by the insecurity in Nigeria they'd yell, damn buhari, and not sai.

Funny people, is what I think. More amusing than telly, but sad.

The case of the GOP is beyond repair at the moment.
They will pause and reset in time when when this route they are on have taken them down the drain.

I've been absent from the thread but I'm glad u guys are still handing the e-pain to the lickers.

“The nut may crack in the next 36 hours,” Andrew Giuliani told CNN, saying Trump could “be the hero” by jumping in to help Rudy with his mounting legal costs.

More from me &
@PaulaReidCNN
:
Trump and legal team approached about Giuliani legal costs
Allies of Rudy Giuliani continue to call on former President Donald Trump and Republicans to pay for his efforts around the election and, in turn, subsidize the mounting legal bills facing the former...

https://twitter.com/GabbyOrr_/status/1390052728404160514

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/05/politics/trump-giuliani-legal-costs/index.html

benalvino2:


1: I don't remember ever saying I am not bias. Infact I usually say the opposite. I usually say we are all bias. My reason for saying budaatum was partial was because the time I said the media all deceived us both the leftwing and rightwing media he still tried to make it about left vs right when that was not the case.

Do not let your own bias make you believe we were all deceived. As a wise man once wrote, "all may be equal, but some are more equal than others", though I think he was talking about animals on a farm.

If you go back and read what I wrote you'd find that as far as the Iraq War is concerned, left wing me was not deceived by any media nor even by my own left wing Tony Blair government, which is why I was on the streets opposing the war at the time and suspended my subscription to the left wing Labour Party.

Some of us are far too critical to have ever believed in the kraken, be it from media or a political party or even a party we are members of.

Livelystone01:

The case of the GOP is beyond repair at the moment.
They will pause and reset in time when when this route they are on have taken them down the drain.

They must please not be in too much of a hurry. The drain has a long way for them to go down still.

sanpipita:


Trump's bad behavior is there to see yet people think it's media, I used to think after Trump won in 2016 he will tone down and act like a proper president instead he got worse.

Any little disagreement even with his own appointees who comes to Twitter to attack them, he made everything about himself and ego it's no surprise Americans were more divided under him

A child behaving as he did will be told off, yet some expect us to like this deplorable disgusting adult baby!

benalvino2:


1: I don't remember ever saying I am not bias. Infact I usually say the opposite. I usually say we are all bias. My reason for saying budaatum was partial was because the time I said the media all deceived us both the leftwing and rightwing media he still tried to make it about left vs right when that was not the case.

Everybody loved trump before the election and I don't. He was all over the leftwing media. Shows here and there. Even when he started going after Obama the media did not attack him. They did not support him but they did not sure any malice towards him. But the moment trump ran as a republican. All of a sudden he has been white Supremacist all these time. Racist, criminal etc. No kind of allegation they haven't spread about him.

That alone is the reason why I support trump because the left are too power hungry.

During Obama when the senate and house was with the Republicans... They could have impeached Obama but they didn't.

If Trump does not give the media what to feed on, do you think they would have had their pound of flesh of him?
Do you also mean to say those his utterances and actions should be ignored by the media? He is a grown man, He's expected to be held responsible for everything comment he makes, just like right wing are looking for everything to hold against Biden as we speak.

Come on man, it is not as if all media houses were against Trump by the way, is it? I can remember how some media outlets were not covering anything that has to do with his weaknesses, eg fox news and others.

You can't blame the left wing media houses for covering his misdemeanors, can you?

In a way, I like the way the media operates in the US, it gives one the ability to think through all news and pick a side, unlike Nigeria where people are afraid to say their minds against the ruling party.


I think I need to correct your last statement here, the GOP controlled house and senate couldn't find any impeachable offense against Obama, if they had, they'd gladly had tried to impeach him. It wouldn't have succeeded if they had tried to remove him because they'd have needed more than a simple majority to do that.

Don't tell me you don't remember how McConnell was looking for a way to destroy Obama o.

budaatum:


They must please not be in too much of a hurry. The drain has a long way for them to go down still.

Lol, but in all honesty, democracy becomes great when we have a viable opposition.

With the way the GOP is going, they will hurt the United States in the long run.

benalvino2:


During Obama when the senate and house was with the Republicans... They could have impeached Obama but they didn't.

Impeached him for not being American, perhaps? No they couldn't, and would have if they could!

As odd as it may sound to you, you need more than "we have a majority and he's not our party" to impeach a president of the USA.

Livelystone01:

Lol, but in all honesty, democracy becomes great when we have a viable opposition.

With the way the GOP is going, they will hurt the United States in the long run.

Na, they won't hurt the United States a tiny one bit.

They may suffer for a while, and must if they stick to this drain they are in, then sensible people will take over the Gop and we might be here rooting for them over the Dems if the Dems do not live up to our expectations and hopes.

That is how democracy educates and helps societies evolve.

sanpipita:


Lol the opposition from Republicans or be it conservatives is funny, I had conversation about this with one today

Same people said big pharma are milking money from covid and now against a waiver that means the big pharma will lose money.

Oh well like Mitch said they are 100% out to oppose Biden

@bold,And they will look foolish while at it.
Is this what they wanna run with next year can you imagine that Ron Deathsantis governor of Florida signed a voter suppression bill into law which had already been challenged in court today and he excluded the media except the bullsh*t factory also known as (Fox News) to cover the news and after signing walked through the back door out of shame that he will meet the Press.That is how fascism starts how can a governor in America pick the media he wants to be present and the signing it is not done.They wanna remove Liz Cheney and replace her with a woman that is more moderate and less conservative I wonder what these people will run with next year especially if Dems pass major legislation including HR1.But then 74 million people voted for them so I won't be surprised if they do well next year but I don't see them taking back Congress anyway I overestimate the intelligence of some Americans so I will not be surprised if the opposite happened afterall many of us did not think 74 million people will look at what Trump did and say okay we want more of that thank God 81 million people especially in Arizona,Georgia and the Midwest states said no and saved America.

PrideofLincoln1:
Let the Coons on Nairaland keep hyperventilating over a vile Racist Pig while TeamBlue are getting ready and motivated for 2022 and 2024. President Biden is performing beyond our expectations and TurtleNeck MoscowMitch can rants all he wants. The bottomline is that the Blue Avalanche of 2020 is getting stronger by the day.

Joe Manchin is a problem but I think he will at the end fall in line.He heard what Moscow Mitch said yesterday.Dem voters have learnt their lesson the senate seats in North Carolina,Wisconsin and Pennsylvania are a must win next year while maintaining Arizona and Georgia.Rubio is beatable Florida is still competitive Dems lose by small margins there it has been painful for them since 2012 but they have a new leader in Florida democratic party do let's see what they can do if Deathsantis loses next year the 2024 talk of running for president will be dead and buried he only won by 0.4% in 2018 he is beatable.As for Ohio it is going Red but Tim Ryan is Dems best shot at winning the senate we shall see.

budaatum:


Impeached him for not being American, perhaps? No they couldn't, and would have if they could!

As odd as it may sound to you, you need more than "we have a majority and he's not our party" to impeach a president of the USA.

They could have impeached him for the fast and furious scandal. He tried to derail the house by claiming executive privilege and when they went to court he withdrew the executive privilege. Republicans still decided not to impeach him and instead let the people vote.

Before trump wasn't even the president yet but dems have started saying they want to Impeach.

Livelystone01:

If Trump does not give the media what to feed on, do you think they would have had their pound of flesh of him?
Do you also mean to say those his utterances and actions should be ignored by the media? He is a grown man, He's expected to be held responsible for everything comment he makes, just like right wing are looking for everything to hold against Biden as we speak.

Come on man, it is not as if all media houses were against Trump by the way, is it? I can remember how some media outlets were not covering anything that has to do with his weaknesses, eg fox news and others.

You can't blame the left wing media houses for covering his misdemeanors, can you?

In a way, I like the way the media operates in the US, it gives one the ability to think through all news and pick a side, unlike Nigeria where people are afraid to say their minds against the ruling party.


I think I need to correct your last statement here, the GOP controlled house and senate couldn't find any impeachable offense against Obama, if they had, they'd gladly had tried to impeach him. It wouldn't have succeeded if they had tried to remove him because they'd have needed more than a simple majority to do that.

Don't tell me you don't remember how McConnell was looking for a way to destroy Obama o.

Well, many times to alter what he says by omission. They lie about him. You know the very fine people lie cnn pushed? He does not have to give them they just make up crap as they go.

The media even took isis leader's side over Trump.

budaatum:


Do not let your own bias make you believe we were all deceived. As a wise man once wrote, "all may be equal, but some are more equal than others", though I think he was talking about animals on a farm.

If you go back and read what I wrote you'd find that as far as the Iraq War is concerned, left wing me was not deceived by any media nor even by my own left wing Tony Blair government, which is why I was on the streets opposing the war at the time and suspended my subscription to the left wing Labour Party.

Some of us are far too critical to have ever believed in the kraken, be it from media or a political party or even a party we are members of.

Good for you. But you miss the point yet again. My point is not about if You were deceived or not. I was talking about how the media played a role to convince people why Iraq should be invaded.

It is not about you or me.

PrideofLincoln1:
The more these RepubliKKKans spout their junks, the more independent Americans turn against them. I hope they keep worshipping the rejected and humiliated Trump because that will make it easy for us as Progressives in 2022 and beyond.

The thing is the RepubliQans are not smart but they think they are because of the loud but small deplorable Maga base.
How can you be fighting popular policies not winning the younger generation Z and hope to win elections they know they cannot win on their record or policies so they wanna make it harder to vote and oppose Biden and every democratic policy he supports that is why there are new attempts against abortion and LGBTQ especially the Trans community as regards to Sport and also gun control reforms Dems are pushing that is why the states where they control the legislature they are bringing these bills which they know will be challenged by liberals and they wanna see it get to SCOTUS or use it as a campaign tool in 2022 but young Americans don't care about these things but support democratic policies but they cannot campaign with that they are even fighting their own policies the party of free market is now against big Tech and corporations the party of small government wants to control how you vote,choose to have kids and stop your Trans kids from playing sports this is contrary to their policy of less government interference but right now they are going authoritarian.

That said I don't know why they stick with Trump he underperformed every republiQan and they lost the house and senate in 4 years under him and that has not happened since Hoover or 90 years ago(I can't remember the correct history there) but yet they still wanna lick his ass Trump doesn't help them to win elections he helps them lose in 2018 midterms there were candidates he supported that lost while some republiQans who did not get his endorsement still won so why are they making him feel like a king when he is not.Trump is hurting them they no longer campaign on policy but lies and fear that is terrible the RepubliQan party is shrinking it is minority party that still wins elections because the geography of America still favours them so they get to control legislatures and redistrict seats in their favour despite the fact that many of their states have lesser population than blue states but have equal stake in Congress especially the senate and Electoral college that is the only thing working for them right now and they are playing with it.The day Texas turns blue they are finished.

PrideofLincoln1:
My office is inside the IBM Building right across from Trump Tower on Wabash Avenue and the Chicago River. Have been working in that office before Trump bought that parcel of land by the River Chicago from Chicago Sun Times. He made the first 15 floors the Trump Hotel and from 16th Flr to 97th Flr the Condos that are about 40% vacant because Trump is loathed in Chicago. That building is draining money like basket draining water and he's so indebted to Deutsche Bank that he might end up in foreclosure. Trump's a certified Con Man and a Grifter of no equal. These Coons here don't know jack about him unlike people like us who have known of his scams over 30 years ago.

There's something about his con that he is fully exploiting, and i really believe it is rapidly falling apart. Let's not forget the constant stream of ground breaking news that have come out of the criminal circles in trump's orbit and we are just in May. Imagine what will happen before the midterms. It is going to be extraordinary, but it will be a bridge that must be crossed.

Livelystone01:

The case of the GOP is beyond repair at the moment.
They will pause and reset in time when when this route they are on have taken them down the drain.

They are attacking Liz Cheney instead of Matt Gaetz,Majorie Taylor Greene,Lauren Boebart and Andy biggs the Anglo-Saxon caucus imagine that.

They are yet to remove Gaerz from committees until investigations has been fully done but are quick to attack Cheney and plan to replace her with a less conservative woman all because she is loyal to Trump it is the party of Trump now.I can't even believe that I will ever agree with Liz Cheney on anything or be interested in anything relating to her but liberals are empathetic for her given how she is being treated in her party.

benalvino2:


Well, many times to alter what he says by omission. They lie about him. You know the very fine people lie cnn pushed? He does not have to give them they just make up crap as they go.

The media even took isis leader's side over Trump.

Can you help tell me which side fox new was on all those while? I'm not including other right wing media houses.

Besides, fox is a bigger news outlet than CNN, including in social media followership.
Even on twitter, fox news have 4 times the followers of CNN. That's about 20million plus people following fox news to the 4+ million following CNN. What does this tell you? They have a bigger audience and following and they support the GOP, yet most people feel CNN is the only MSM lol.

Besides, the thing you highlight that CNN did against Trump which is clear to all is the same thing that fox news is doing to Biden as well speak.
It's about interest and alignments here bro which I believe you know.

You don't expect CNN that has most of its focus on the Democratic party to be silent when a loophole is found on Trump, do you? In his case, they didn't just discovered a loophole against him (Trump), he was an extremely wide hole with his wide bragging attitude every second he had an opportunity to be responsible for certain things.

Like I said, one does not need the media to see Trump's pride, arrogance, ignorance, lies on certain issues, etc.
They, the media only highlighted these continuous errors so it won't look blurry to nonchalant readers or oppositions, including the neutrals.

I like you because you support Trump and you are vocal about it while being civil at the same time, it is normal to support someone you believe operates in a way you like, but on the other hand, I don't and I can't support him because of his utterances, attitude and actions.

benalvino2:


Good for you. But you miss the point yet again. My point is not about if You were deceived or not. I was talking about how the media played a role to convince people why Iraq should be invaded.

It is not about you or me.

When it comes to the power of the media, i believe everyone here does not think it is a conspiracy. The major ones who control the news, control the moment and it has been so for hundreds of years. It only takes a few digging and you discover a lot happens behind the scenes in the media world. Check youtube for the documentary, Media spin, i guess, and see what i mean. But that does not negate the fact trump is a criminal. If you antagonize the media because of trump but can't understand why trump smells of financial criminal offenses like a perfume, you are a confused man. Strike a balance and you will see clearly.

Livelystone01:

Lol, but in all honesty, democracy becomes great when we have a viable opposition.

With the way the GOP is going, they will hurt the United States in the long run.

Give them power next year they will hurt it even more they will block every Biden agenda at the detriment of the good people they represent and the fools that voted them in.They don't care about governing they just want power they are not a viable opposition as far as I am concerned they are liars and grifters looking for power they have no policy to campaign with just lies and hate and dull people will vote for them to own the libs at their own detriment.If they lose again next year they will not be able to handle it and will try to discredit the election again without proof.If the GQP smells power at the federal level in 2024 and they bring in a Trump loyalist or MAGAts like Deathsantis,Pompeo and co American democracy is done for full blown authoritarianism is the goal.They must keep losing elections until they rid themselves of far right ideologies rascism and fascism etc.

AmazonTopaz:

Joe Manchin is a problem but I think he will at the end fall in line.He heard what Moscow Mitch said yesterday.Dem voters have learnt their lesson the senate seats in North Carolina,Wisconsin and Pennsylvania are a must win next year while maintaining Arizona and Georgia.Rubio is beatable Florida is still competitive Dems lose by small margins there it has been painful for them since 2012 but they have a new leader in Florida democratic party do let's see what they can do if Deathsantis loses next year the 2024 talk of running for president will be dead and buried he only won by 0.4% in 2018 he is beatable.As for Ohio it is going Red but Tim Ryan is Dems best shot at winning the senate we shall see.

Senator Manchin and Sinema will come around because they are under tremendous pressure not only from Americans but from the citizens of their States seeing the marvelous job President Biden is doing. With Turtleneck MoscowMitch, I remember vividly after President Obama was sworn in on Jan 20, 2009, the Turtle man said his number one goal is to make Obama a one term President and we all knew Americans rejected the racist and Obama served two great terms. The bottomline is that Americans are going to vote not these unpaid Coons on Nairaland and I can assure you that Democrats will add more seats in the Senate and the House.

The children of Israelite (nairalite) put together their blings, gold earings, chains, gold teeth, etc Moses needs to vex and throway the next commandment - that is, after we finish dancing around the calf while waiting for him to come back.

Tdotbluejays:

The golden calf

budaatum:


Na, they won't hurt the United States a tiny one bit.

They may suffer for a while, and must if they stick to this drain they are in, then sensible people will take over the Gop and we might be here rooting for them over the Dems if the Dems do not live up to our expectations and hopes.

That is how democracy educates and helps societies evolve.

Your second paragraph is interesting to me.
Isn't that how followership in politics is supposed to be? Looking at the party with people support instead of a party of selfishness and lies.
Most people think political support is a life time thing instead of vetting the actions of a party at every season to pick a side.

You just nailed it for mature people here. Supporting the Democratic party today doesn't guarantee them a lifetime loyalty, if they turn around and act stupid while the GOP work on themselves, reasonable people will change base.

Thanks for drawing that out so people will understand what it is we are talking about here.

This has nothing to do with the media in one bit.

AmazonTopaz:

They are attacking Liz Cheney instead of Matt Gaetz,Majorie Taylor Greene,Lauren Boebart and Andy biggs the Anglo-Saxon caucus imagine that.

They are yet to remove Gaerz from committees until investigations has been fully done but are quick to attack Cheney and plan to replace her with a less conservative woman all because she is loyal to Trump it is the party of Trump now.I can't even believe that I will ever agree with Liz Cheney on anything or be interested in anything relating to her but liberals are empathetic for her given how she is being treated in her party.

This is the chat between Gaetz guy and stone. Gaetz will either enter witness protection, that is if he can lead to a bigger fish or risk jail and political humiliation. It's just a matter of time before we see Agents handcuffing him on live tv but i think florida man will fold and become a rat.

Obrigardo:


There's something about his con that he is fully exploiting, and i really believe it is rapidly falling apart. Let's not forget the constant stream of ground breaking news that have come out of the criminal circles in trump's orbit and we are just in May. Imagine what will happen before the midterms. It is going to be extraordinary, but it will be a bridge that must be crossed.

Now that Trump's legal lapdog (Giuliani) is in a poo house, I bet you that the famous Con Man will not assist Giuliani with his legal fees put of the $250 million campaign funds he raised by saying he wants to challenge the so called fraudulent election. Trump's is a con man and a grifter of no equal. Good riddance to the worst President in American history.

Livelystone01:

Your second paragraph is interesting to me.
Isn't that how followership in politics is supposed to be? Looking at the party with people support instead of a party of selfishness and lies.
Most people think political support is a life time thing instead of vetting the actions of a party at every season to pick a side.

You just nailed it for mature people here. Supporting the Democratic party today doesn't guarantee them a lifetime loyalty, if they turn around and act stupid while the GOP work on themselves, reasonable people will change base.

Thanks for drawing that out so people will understand what it is we are talking about here.

This has nothing to do with the media in one bit.

Come back to reality, they are not working on themselves instead are dying off. They can't even govern, just yapping about cultural issues and anatagonize everything while supporting a criminal trump. Talk well.

PrideofLincoln1:
Senator Manchin and Sinema will come around because they are under tremendous pressure not only from Americans but from the citizens of their States seeing the marvelous job President Biden is doing. With Turtleneck MoscowMitch, I remember vividly after President Obama was sworn in on Jan 20, 2009, the Turtle man said his number one goal is to make Obama a one term President and we all knew Americans rejected the racist and Obama served two great terms. The bottomline is that Americans are going to vote not these unpaid Coons on Nairaland and I can assure you that Democrats will add more seats in the Senate and the House.

RepubliQans are hoping that Sinema and Manchin will hold their ground yesterday Chuck Grassley said he was sure that Manchin won't yield and the other week Lindsey Graham,Ted Cruz and Marsha Blackburn were commending Sinema and Manchin to continue being obstructionist while they work out ways to make it harder for people to vote and retake the house and senate imagine that.Those two better fall in line because time is running out dems are calm republiQans came for Cheney's head because she speaks the truth that Trump lost the election.

PrideofLincoln1:
Now that Trump's legal lapdog (Giuliani) is in a poo house, I bet you that the famous Con Man will not assist Giuliani with his legal fees put of the $250 million campaign funds he raised by saying he wants to challenge the so called fraudulent election. Trump's is a con man and a grifter of no equal. Good riddance to the worst President in American history.

Even now Michael cohen is still suing trump org. for his legal fees. trump will never pay Giuliani, he may think rudy has more exposure than him, same idea he had for cohen and he may think he has protection from house republicans but i think the table will turn on its head sooner than later.