budaatum:
We would be arguing this back and forth forever since we all do not share the same history about it, so you all need to forgive me for just stating my position and not engaging too much in the to and fro.

Below is a perspective one involving Israelis themselves. I am not necessarily in support or promoting the views therein.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKplabTRuak

Yet you call blacks who support republicans or trump names. But you want to use israelis who support Palestinians to make your points.

Again, Israel Storm the musk in Jerusalem. Fatah did not shoot missiles but hamas who is at the other side are the ones shooting missiles.

When Russia annexed crimea what happened? Thr Ukrainians did not shoot missiles towards Russia because they recognized it is not a war they can win and they could end up losing the whole ukrain.

You side with a terrorist group that vows to destroy Israel. OK. But don't complain when Israel fights back

raumdeuter:


Which property were they robbed of? Were the former inhabitants of Constantinople not robbed of their land by the conquerors? Why have they not resorted to terror?

So, because I rob your neighbour in Constantinople and they are not complaining, its ok for me to rob you wherever you are and you too must not complain? ?

raumdeuter:

Budaatuum, rumdeuter does not recognize your right to exist and seek every means to exterminate you, Tell me what you will do that will be acceptable.

As in, budaatum does not recognise your right to exist on budaatum's land that you stole off budaatum!

Yes, I will fight and terrorise you with all the means at my disposal to exterminate you off my land, but I sure would not expect rumdeuter the land thief to find my fighting acceptable or rumdeuter would not have stolen my land in the first place and I would not need to exterminate rumdeuter.

DissTroy:


Lies! They won't do jack. It's all for the show. They've always murmured for the cameras but it goes only one way in the end. No Leftist is trying to block anything. The U.S. (which includes the Leftists) are facilitating the ceasefire moves between Israel and Hamas, and the reaffirmation of support means arming Israel too. That's what the U.S. does to it strategic allies regardless of who is POTUS. Nothing special and unique about that. It's the same thing the U.S. has done under ever president since Clinton, including Obama and Trump.

The last time Leftists were bold enough to try something as radical as blocking U.S. arms to Israel, Israeli P.M., Netanyahu, stormed the U.S. Congress in 2015, to Obama's chagrin, and ended that nonsense. Since then, Congress has fallen in line.

Leftists keeping quiet would make them lose their support base so they put up a fight they know they've lost before it started so they can tell their followers, "See, I fought for the cause. My hands are tied. Vote us in next time and we'd fight again."

P.S: If you want a debate, quote to get engaged. Don't take side disses, princess. Facts only here.

You went from leftists are not saying anything to it's just a show, two contradictory statements on one matter

Bend to the left, bend to the right debate isn't something I will engage in, have fun

Tdotbluejays1:


They must be living under the rock.
Fox News has been on steroid over the far left issue for a while...

They prefer alternative facts, one idiot is calling for debates, he must really think I have patience and time for people who fill their heads with fantasies from parler

basilico:


I might disagree with you. Leftists like the jihad squad would do everything to see the end of Israel.
On his last days of power Obama admin did not veto a resolution declaring Temple Mount (might have been the Wailing Wall) as Islamic.

The radicals amongst the Leftists are the most vocal, sadly. Some of the top henchmen in the Left have Jewish/Israeli heritage but for the sake of grabbing power, they'd get in bed with these radicals to help propagate hate. You need people like AOC and Ilhan Omar to say the most unhinged, vile things which you are too classy to say. It's like Nigerian governors and party leaders using minions like Desmond Elliot and his likes to say the craziest of things but with enough cushion to distance themselves when things go deep South.

America is a country of immigrants with a sizeable Muslim population. For the sake of power, you need puppets like AOC and Ilhan (notice their specific ethnicities, gender and religion) to connect with the voting bloc. Give them a platform to make noise but don't let them into the decision-making room. Were they consulted before Biden's declarations? You get it now?

Letting antisemitism fester is good especially in election years. Let the Israeli-Palestine escalation repeat itself just before the mid-terms and you'd see how amplified they'd let the voices of Ilhan and AOC be just to play to the gallery and whip up sentiments. Drag it long enough to win or retain seats and we are back to ensuring American foreign policies continue without change.

George Soros is smart guy.

budaatum:

So, because I rob your neighbour in Constantinople and they are not complaining, its ok for me to rob you wherever you are and you too must not complain? ?

That is because the real world works differently, people move on. Many countries of the world are situated on land that ancestrally did not belong to them. The USA is an example of one. The country where those Democrats are legislating laws about is one

As in, budaatum does not recognise your right to exist on budaatum's land that you stole off budaatum!

Yes, I will fight and terrorise you with all the means at my disposal to exterminate you off my land, but I sure would not expect rumdeuter the land thief to find my fighting acceptable or rumdeuter would not have stolen my land in the first place and I would not need to exterminate rumdeuter.

Like I said Israel does not have a problem with Hamas terrorizing it, as long as they dont continue whining around when Israel replies like any rational country will

I have asked, If Sinaloa Cartel is using Mexico to launch daily rockets into USA, will Democrats say we should just hand Texas, California etc back to Mexico since their ancestors used to live here

They always love starting from the rocket part thinking that we are kids but will not start from the full story.

Even now that there is a cease Fire they are still looking for trouble in Al Aqsa mosque to provoke Hamas again into ending the ceasefire.

sanpipita:


You went from leftists are not saying anything to it's just a show, two contradictory statements on one matter

Bend to the left, bend to the right debate isn't something I will engage in, have fun

That's the way of the far right.

See western hypocrites calling out Belarus for hijacking a plane same thing they did in 2013 to the president of Bolivia in the name of looking for Snowden.

I am not in support of it but see the way they were quick to call out Lukashenko but were deaf to call out Isreal because Isreal is their ally and they gave them a free pass once China,Iran,Russia and Turkey does the same they will call them names but kept mute when their ally did it.

I hate hypocrisy ehn and I was disappointed the two state solution is dead so Biden himself talking about it is only paying lip service.
So I will say that Belarus has a right to defend d itself too

America gives Isreal the highest amount of foreign aid so as for Isreal to bully Palestinians once world powers especially the USA that blocked a resolution has a reverse course they will maintain.
I am glad that young Americans are sympathetic to the Palestinians and the world is seeing what Is real is doing.

Critizing far right Zionism is not anti-Semitism.

sanpipita:


You went from leftists are not saying anything to it's just a show, two contradictory statements on one matter

Bend to the left, bend to the right debate isn't something I will engage in, have fun

No, you have nothing to say. The Leftists Radicals have always made noise, before ante and post escalations. Nothing special. I just listed examples of the ones who do.

A full resolution by the Democratic Party is saying something. Something we know they won't say. Heck! There have always been Republicans who deliberately dissent to what would hitherto be a stance of the party. This has happened for years. Does it mean their stances were those of the Right? No. In Nigeria, a one of two vocal persons in the APC are in support of zoning it to the South but is that the stance of the party? No. Most have just said it as personal opinions and not taken it up in any way that can be seen as legal.
Shame the US-Israeli things goes beyond anyone POTUS or member of Congress, no matter how vocal.


Again, I'd warn you: You could either square up for a debate, back-and-forth, discussion (whatever appellation you'd tag it) with you picking any talking point you want in a composed manner without mudslinging or you go all out with the disses. I'm good either way and have no attachment to any moniker I operate so a ban or the threat of it wouldn't deter me when I go full vitriolic on you. My antecedence on this forum over the years is proof disses and fighting dirty are paths I have towed and never one to back down. Wouldn't start now.

For the sake of the reading public who might want to glean whatever they like from the ensuing conversations( ?), keep it civil. Choose wisely, buddy.

Western media think this is 1980s where they can tell one side of the story. Thanks to social media, young people in Western countries are calling out the injustice.

Israel needs to make peace with their neighbours to secure their future. Technological advantage does not last forever, especially with America on the wane.

AmazonTopaz:
They always love starting from the rocket part thinking that we are kids but will not start from the full story.

Even now that there is a cease Fire they are still looking for trouble in Al Aqsa mosque to provoke Hamas again into ending the ceasefire.

Wait... Do you realize Hamas is a terror organization, right? What sort of hatred would make you support the actions of terrorists? What would make you view terrorists as defenders? God! I bet you also think Hezbollah are defenders too. You don't have to state it - support for one terrorist group is a nod of support to the actions of others.

1=a=i.

AmazonTopaz:
They always love starting from the rocket part thinking that we are kids but will not start from the full story.

Even now that there is a cease Fire they are still looking for trouble in Al Aqsa mosque to provoke Hamas again into ending the ceasefire.

You love one sided propaganda and lies.

Ibime:
Western media think this is 1980s where they can tell one side of the story. Thanks to social media, young people in Western countries are calling out the injustice.

Israel needs to make peace with their neighbours to secure their future. Technological advantage does not last forever, especially with America on the wane.

How do you make peace with someone whose charter and the constitution has at its core the destruction of your own nation? Truth is there is nothing Israel will give them that will bring peace unless Israel cease to exist.
Now how do you negotiate that?

Ibime:
Western media think this is 1980s where they can tell one side of the story. Thanks to social media, young people in Western countries are calling out the injustice.

Israel needs to make peace with their neighbours to secure their future. Technological advantage does not last forever, especially with America on the wane.

I remember back in 2006 when we used to argue the Ariel Sharon withdrawal from Gaza on this same Nairaland, 15yrs later it has become a base for Hamas and terrorists

All the Fatah people were murdered and Hamas took over Gaza. So what else should Israel have done when giving back Gaza backfired spectcularly

KHAN YOUNIS, Gaza Strip — Ten years ago this month, the Israeli army undertook one of its most controversial missions, uprooting more than 8,000 Jewish settlers from their homes here in Gaza, some by force.

Many Israelis today believe all they got for their troubles were more rockets.

The evacuation of all Israeli troops and civilians from the Gaza Strip, a unilateral “disengagement” ordered by then-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in 2005, at the urging of President George W. Bush, was a searing episode for Israel, and a gamble.

For the Palestinians, the Israeli withdrawal offered a chance for self-rule.

But Gaza today is governed by the Islamist resistance movement Hamas, branded a terrorist organization by the United States and Europe. The last elections in Gaza occurred almost a decade ago.

raumdeuter:


How do you make peace with someone whose charter and the constitution has at its core the destruction of your own nation? Truth is there is nothing Israel will give them that will bring peace unless Israel cease to exist.
Now how do you negotiate that?

Israel has already destroyed their nation, so that is normal. Negotiation and settlement can calm all these things over some decades or hundreds of years, just like Scots and Welsh vowed to deal with England but now living at peace. One thing they must know is that one day a technology will emerge that will trump irondome. You cannot be at odds with half a continent and be living in the middle of it. Whether 50 years or 200 years from now, it will not end well.

raumdeuter:


How do you make peace with someone whose charter and the constitution has at its core the destruction of your own nation? Truth is there is nothing Israel will give them that will bring peace unless Israel cease to exist.
Now how do you negotiate that?

The very point which makes media ostriches stick their heads in the sand when raised.

And for those mentioning social media opening up the "truth" to young Americans: You mean the same social media like Twitter and Facebook which has content review panels which are made up of Leftists? Like the ones which would suppress trends that don't fit their agenda?

I'd give examples: When Biden tripped thrice while boarding Airforce One, Twitter suppressed and shadowbanned accounts which were referring to the incident negatively. Compare that to when Trump had toilet paper stuck on his shoes. It was top of the trend for days.

When Chrissy Teigen was busted for verbal assault/bullying minors over the years two weeks ago, people were using #Surviving ChrissyTeigen hastag to expose her. Copy the hashtag then local-search on Twitter. Trend was and is still suppressed.

Need I go on? The Leftist are successfully manipulating social media (Twitter and Facebook) as the echo box for their talking points, with inciting headers especially.

Ibime:


Israel has already destroyed their nation, so that is normal. Negotiation and settlement can calm all these things over some decades or hundreds of years, just like Scots and Welsh vowed to deal with England but now living at peace. One thing they must know is that one day a technology will emerge that will trump irondome. You cannot be at odds with half a continent and be living in the middle of it. Whether 50 years or 200 years from now, it will not end well.

Israel was open to negotiating with Mahmoud Abbas Fatah but no one will negotiate with Hamas a terror organization
I think Israel has been benevolent enough in all of these. The blockade on Gaza is from both Israel and Egypt as a result of the terror activities of Hamas, but they don't worry about the Egyptian blockade, its the Israel one they want so that they can bring more suicide bombers into Israel

Israel is at peace with the stable ones who want peace like Saudi, Egypt and not those who wanted to destroy it

You cannot start negotiating with anyone whose cause in life is to destroy you

Ibime:


Israel has already destroyed their nation, so that is normal. Negotiation and settlement can calm all these things over some decades or hundreds of years, just like Scots and Welsh vowed to deal with England but now living at peace. One thing they must know is that one day a technology will emerge that will trump irondome. You cannot be at odds with half a continent and be living in the middle of it. Whether 50 years or 200 years from now, it will not end well.

Sadly they can't have peace as long as they teaching their kids at the age of 3 to kill jews. This is not a joke.

raumdeuter:


Israel was open to negotiating with Mahmoud Abbas Fatah but no one will negotiate with Hamas a terror organization
I think Israel has been benevolent enough in all of these. The blockade on Gaza is from both Israel and Egypt as a result of the terror activities of Hamas, but they don't worry about the Egyptian blockade, its the Israel one they want so that they can bring more suicide bombers into Israel

Israel is at peace with the stable ones who want peace like Saudi, Egypt and not those who wanted to destroy it

You cannot start negotiating with anyone whose cause in life is to destroy you

Abbas hands are tied because it seems hamas is gaining more support from the Palestinians which is a grim situation for them for they don't know.

DissTroy:

No, you have nothing to say. The Leftists Radicals have always made noise, before ante and post escalations. Nothing special. I just listed examples of the ones who do.

A full resolution by the Democratic Party is saying something. Something we know they won't say. Heck! There have always been Republicans who deliberately dissent to what would hitherto be a stance of the party. This has happened for years. Does it mean their stances were those of the Right? No. In Nigeria, a one of two vocal persons in the APC are in support of zoning it to the South but is that the stance of the party? No. Most have just said it as personal opinions and not taken it up in any way that can be seen as legal.
Shame the US-Israeli things goes beyond anyone POTUS or member of Congress, no matter how vocal.


Again, I'd warn you: You could either square up for a debate, back-and-forth, discussion (whatever appellation you'd tag it) with you picking any talking point you want in a composed manner without mudslinging or you go all out with the disses. I'm good either way and have no attachment to any moniker I operate so a ban or the threat of it wouldn't deter me when I go full vitriolic on you. My antecedence on this forum over the years is proof disses and fighting dirty are paths I have towed and never one to back down. Wouldn't start now.

For the sake of the reading public who might want to glean whatever they like from the ensuing conversations( ?), keep it civil. Choose wisely, buddy.

Wonder why you thought it's a good idea to write all that gibberish, "your antecedence over this forum"? what actual nonsense is that, like I should be bothered or what? if I switch off my internet your worthless antecedence doesn't exist.

A side of a political party is telling you they oppose a certain policy, but you are still lumping them together with others, this is what I'm supposed to engage with?

benalvino2:


Abbas hands are tied because it seems hamas is gaining more support from the Palestinians which is a grim situation for them for they don't know.

At the back of their mind, they do not want a peaceful negotiation or resolution they want a continuation of war that is why Abbas cannot do anything.

If there is peace then the terror organizations like Hamas will not have anything to use as propaganda anymore to recruit, They will not have pictures of children to post online for sympathy. The same terror organizations who will strap bombs to Palestinian girls of 8yrs to blow a market now suddenly cares about Palestinian innocent civilians

America that has a recent history of fighting terror is now equivocating a country with a terror organization who doesnt mind using a nursery school as a storage for rockets

Below is a topic from 2006 on this same issue

https://www.nairaland.com/17880/israel-vs-hezbollah-lebanon

sanpipita:


Wonder why you thought it's a good idea to write all that gibberish, "your antecedence over this forum"? what actual nonsense is that, like I should be bothered or what? if I switch off my internet your worthless antecedence doesn't exist.

Dude calm down.

raumdeuter:


Israel was open to negotiating with Mahmoud Abbas Fatah but no one will negotiate with Hamas a terror organization
I think Israel has been benevolent enough in all of these. The blockade on Gaza is from both Israel and Egypt as a result of the terror activities of Hamas, but they don't worry about the Egyptian blockade, its the Israel one they want so that they can bring more suicide bombers into Israel

Israel is at peace with the stable ones who want peace like Saudi, Egypt and not those who wanted to destroy it

You cannot start negotiating with anyone whose cause in life is to destroy you

Did the current situation start in Gaza or in Jerusalem?

Of course, when you want to justify something, you will point at the baddest guy from the opposing side.

This situation started in East Jerusalem with settler evictions and ignited by storming of Al Aqsa mosque during Ramadan. Bringing in Hamas from Gaza which is miles away and who joined the fracas days later is just an attempt to give a dog a bad name in order to hang it.

Ibime:



Did the current situation start in Gaza or in Jerusalem?

Of course, when you want to justify something, you will point at the baddest guy from the opposing side.

This situation started in East Jerusalem with settler evictions and ignited by storming of Al Aqsa mosque during Ramadan. Bringing in Hamas from Gaza which is miles away and who joined the fracas days later is just an attempt to give a dog a bad name in order to hang it.

It started in Jerusalem.

Ibime:
Western media think this is 1980s where they can tell one side of the story. Thanks to social media, young people in Western countries are calling out the injustice.

Israel needs to make peace with their neighbours to secure their future. Technological advantage does not last forever, especially with America on the wane.

Well said and they need to make peace with Iran.Iran is a big threat.
Abraham accords nor go save them.

raumdeuter:

That is because the real world works differently, people move on.

The real world works differently indeed. Just see how Palestine, and Israel, both part of the real world are very obviously not moving on! Some are even harking back to Abraham just so you can see where they are stuck from moving on, but you want to completely disregard the real world playing out in front of you and insist the whole world should move on like Constantinople, and American Indians, just as you too would move on after I rob you and you see me walking down the street with the contents of your house that I just robbed, right? You'd so move on that you'd call me a cab to ease the burden of your goods on my head, nice kind moving on you.

You go tell that to those agitating for Biafra, or the Hausas fighting Fulani and come tell me what they tell you to do with your real world that is moving on. I'd so like to hear it.

raumdeuter:
Like I said Israel does not have a problem with Hamas terrorizing it, as long as they dont continue whining around when Israel replies like any rational country will

I bet you'd argue that what you said above does not mean, Israel does not mind the thousands of bombs Palestine is shooting at them, but they shoot back at Palestine for whinning at being shot at.

raumdeuter:

I have asked, If Sinaloa Cartel is using Mexico to launch daily rockets into USA, will Democrats say we should just hand Texas, California etc back to Mexico since their ancestors used to live here

Last time I checked, Sinaloa cartel was a "large international drug trafficking, money laundering, and organized crime syndicate established during the late 1980s", and not a group set up to fight for "Texas, California etc back to Mexico"!

A better analogy would be Biafra or Delta, though not exact. And no, I do not expect Nigeria to just concede back the assets they stole, just as I don't expect America to give back Texas, California etc without a fight even if a credible group of people were fighting for it, or Israel to give back the land they stole, just as you should not expect me to give you back without a fight the contents of your house that I robbed. But I do think I'd be very ignorant to think you'd move on and call me a cab, in the real world.

AmazonTopaz:

Well said and they need to make peace with Iran.Iran is a big threat.
Abraham accords nor go save them.

Israel should again go and make peace with Iran a country who does not recognize Israels right to live

Should America also go and make peace with Al Qaeda?

raumdeuter:

Israel should again go and make peace with Iran a country who does not recognize Israels right to live

Should America also go and make peace with Al Qaeda?

She has never said anything meaningful. Iran that wants to destroy Saudi Arabia, USA, UK, Israel?

She has no clue.

raumdeuter:

Israel should again go and make peace with Iran a country who does not recognize Israels right to live

Should America also go and make peace with Al Qaeda?

I was referring to Ibime's post and he wasn't lying I was only stating the obvious because nor be only America get technological advancements and Isreal relying on western Super Powers should not be flexing muscles bullying Palestinians.

AmazonTopaz:

I was referring to Ibime's post and he wasn't lying I was only stating the obvious because nor be only America get technological advancements and Isreal relying on western Super Powers should not be flexing muscles bullying Palestinians.

Hamas shooting rockets into Israel daily are not bullying them? They are being friendly?
Western superpowers are the only reason why Palestine is not a cloud of dust currently. If there is a media blackout for 1 week like Russia usually does for the Chechen rebels you think there will be anything like Hamas?
Israel has the powers to destroy Hamas 100 times over if it comes to free for all warfare and adopt Hamas ideology of everyone is free game

In Egypt previous leaders tried the path of aggression and had to back down to embrace peace with Israel.