ChinenyeN:

So, help me understand. Are you implying that Ika have to be Igbo, because to claim otherwise means to claim no ethnicity?

No, I'm just saying that as the Igbo ethnicity is presently defined, they (Ika) have to fall into it, regardless of what a few of them proclaim. I think it's not so hard to understand what my view is on this. I just think his denial is purely political, and completely lacking a reasonable "ethnological" basis.

In the fuzzy borderlands of tribal Nigeria,there are many communities that have an identity that are distinct from their neighbours just by merely taking on some attributes of those around them.Ika is one of them.The Usen people of Southwest Edo state is another.Older Bini people do not consider Owo(ogho),Ifon(Ihan),Ekue(Akure) and a host of others in Ondo and Ekiti states as Yoruba people.I have met people from these states that acknowledge their Bini heritage.The vast majority however say that they are Yorubas and they are politically and culturally so. The problem of communal or ethnic identity for some people is,though i hate to say it,due to European incursion into Africa.Alliances and borders were broken and maps redrawn.Once fluid boundaries became rigid. People chose who to,or not to,belong. The colonialists divide has endured till this day as we see  in our various communal border disputes. The Ikas seem to have more of this identity problem than others. I cannot for one tell any Ika what to claim.And I do not think any of us who are not Ikas, can.
,

some dont consider lagos yoruba either.

doesnt matter.

we also have some folks calling ilajes, ijaws.

everyone is entitled to their opinion but facts remain facts.

we all like to add to our numbers but that's not always possible.

ezeagu:

It was a concern when the Onicha bible was being used in all churches around the Igbo area which made the churches look to a standard Igbo. It was a concern when the Ijaw nationalists in the 1800 were beating up people who spoke Ijaw with an Igbo accent. I don't understand how it couldn't have been a concern when the Western Igbo towns at that time were receiving large military control because of the fear of Ekumeku spreading, the focus was on towns singled our because they were Igbo, nearby Edo, or Urhobo town weren't looked at. So this would mean that the native people were uniting against a force that were the ones who gave them something to unite over?

All 19th & 20th centuries, but I'm not talking about that time period. That's rather recent history. Instead, I'm talking about 16th and 17th centuries (and quite possibly 15th century, as well). Our 'Igbo' ancestors weren't having this who is 'Igbo' and who isn't debate. But, only now that it has practical meaning (particularly because this is post-Biafra) are people breaking their necks, losing their voices, and condemning each other over this 'issue'. Don't take this to mean that I'm supporting any side of this argument of who is and who isn't 'Igbo'. In fact, I've grown to detest both sides, because both seem to get so hung up over this topic that neither realizes that we're all going through the same god-damn sht, and it doesn't matter if you're fcking Ika ethnicity, Ikwere ethnic nationality, Ukwani ethnic group, or whatever the hell you want to call yourself, the fact on-the-ground is that we could all stand to benefit from some level of wider cooperation. You don't have to identify with or like someone to work alongside that individual, but all these fcking argumentators (particularly the unorthodox ones) are so hung up over this sht, that they think their proving a point by trying to completely isolate themselves. The nationalists get on my damn nerves too.

Anyway, I only wanted to make a passing comment, now I've gone off on a tangent with a small rant.

PhysicsMHD:

No, I'm just saying that as the Igbo ethnicity is presently defined, they (Ika) have to fall into it, regardless of what they proclaim. I think it's not so hard to understand what my view is on this. I just think his denial is purely political, and completely lacking a reasonable "ethnological" basis.

You're right, it's not so hard to understand what your view is on this. I get it.

tpiah!:

some dont consider lagos yoruba either.

doesnt matter.

we also have some folks calling ilajes, ijaws.

everyone is entitled to their opinion but facts remain facts.

we all like to add to our numbers but that's not always possible.

I had stated that the people of Ondo and Ekiti states are politically and culturally Yoruba.Edos are not looking for bloating their population.We do not need it. We say in Bini `Ehien Edo kanmwan,uza oze`.My honest opinion is that the Ikas are better served being Igbo as the Bini/Edo people do not have the political and economic muscle like the Igbos(question mark about the political though).But tpiah! cannot deny the Benin influence in eastern Yorubaland till today

ChinenyeN:

So, help me understand. Are you implying that Ika have to be Igbo, because to claim otherwise means to claim no ethnicity?

If the Ika do not have to be Igbo, then they have to proclaim it as unit. That has never happened, and will never happen. The Ika Obis and leaders do not have any problem been identified as Igbo. If one Ika dimwit here claims he is not Igbo, that should not make you reason that he is right.

Boko halal

i think you mean it the other way round, which is that bini customs are heavily influenced by yoruba. Particularly as pertaining to the monarchy. Making up ten million alternate stories about wandering princes will not change that fact.

Andre Uweh:

If the Ika do not have to be Igbo, then they have to proclaim it as unit. That has never happened, and will never happen. The Ika Obis and leaders do not have any problem been identified as Igbo. If one Ika dimwit here claims he is not Igbo, that should not make you reason that he is right.

Where the hell are you coming from assuming sht? Did you not read my other posts in response to both Physics & Ezeagu? Typical Andre. And since when must all Ika make such a proclamation as a unit? Last I checked, 'Igbo' is basically a convenience label; no one is under any obligation to adhere to it. So to insist that the Ika must make such a proclamation as a unit for validity sake is just gross.

tpiah!:

Boko halal

i think you mean it the other way round, which is that bini customs are heavily influenced by yoruba. Particularly as pertaining to the monarchy. Making up ten million alternate stories about wandering princes will not change that fact.

Yoruba monarchy style is very different from that of Benin. Check out the Olowo of Owo and you will know who influenced who. I am trying to draw a similarity in border societies and the outcome of their interaction with their neighbours of contrasting language and culture. Western Igbo is one and eastern Yorubaland is another.I however concede that every society is influenced by other outside influences. Even North Korea.

So now you want to group western igbo and eastern yorubaland.

Interesting!!

While you're at it, what about northern yorubaland- are they fulani.

tpiah!,you are a funny man(woman).

ChinenyeN:

Where the hell are you coming from assuming sht? Did you not read my other posts in response to both Physics & Ezeagu? Typical Andre. And since when must all Ika make such a proclamation as a unit? Last I checked, 'Igbo' is basically a convenience label; no one is under any obligation to adhere to it. So to insist that the Ika must make such a proclamation as a unit for validity sake is just gross.

I know you can do better than that brainless crap in the bold, or are you just being funny?. Anyway, since when has being Hausa , Yoruba, English, Dutch etc become basically a convinience label, or is it just The Igbo and why?.

How does Hausa, Yoruba, etc. come into this? You're always doing this; referencing dissimilar contexts and peoples.

I think 'convenience label' means a label for generalising hundreds of (closely related) cultures into one group. In Europe, the Igbo would be comparable to the Germanic peoples and the Igbo would have had several different nations in that environment, (which they did, such as Aro, Nri, the smaller kingdoms, etc). I don't agree that any Europeans 'laid down' any Igbo label, but this label was never as strong until the Europeans came.

That's the end. The Igbo identity was strengthened recently, but it has existed from time. Igbo is a 'convenience' label and also a 'survival' label, and anybody cutting themselves from it is their own business. If Igbo land was, for example, the size of Angola or Western Europe, the Igbo would not have created a bond as strong as it is now and groups would have formed separate nations (if not for colonialism) with their own Igboid languages.

Ask any Igbo person (including yourself), if your group had a population of 10 million and had land the size of Equatorial Guniea (which means you can be a country), would you really be interested in Igbo unity?

See Andre, Ezeagu understood, no fuss. Also, yeah, I don't think 'laying down' was the right expression for me to have used; not the connotation I had in mind.

I think maybe it would have been better to say 'encouraging', (whether they wanted to or not).

Don't know if you all have gotten it, agnotaen seems to be in conflict with his identity, in his personal life. More than likely, whenever the pressures and reality of his Igboness hits him, he comes on this thread to vent out his frustration by posting findings that make him feel better of himself, and "detaches" him in some way from the Igbo label. What agbotaen fails to learn is that not accepting Igbo is his choice and that he is free to claim Ika. Where Agbotaen crosses the line is when he groups other groups together and calls them Igbo. What exactly makes them Igbo and not his Ika? I would like to know.

ezeagu:

I think maybe it would have been better to say 'encouraging', (whether they wanted to or not).

That works; encouraging. It connotes what I had in mind, though rather conservatively.

Chyz*:

Don't know if you all have gotten it, agnotaen seems to be in conflict with his identity, in his personal life. More than likely, whenever the pressures and reality of his Igboness hits him, he comes on this thread to vent out his frustration by posting findings that make him feel better of himself, and "detaches" him in some way from the Igbo label. What agbotaen fails to learn is that not accepting Igbo is his choice and that he is free to claim Ika.

No. I don't think I would go so far as to conclude this. You're assuming way too much here, in my opinion.

Chyz*:

Where Agbotaen crosses the line is when he groups other groups together and calls them Igbo. What exactly makes them Igbo and not his Ika? I would like to know.

At last, someone other than me asks a question like this. Now, all that is left is for someone else to actually give a real answer, and put it into perspective.

my cuzzos mom is from ukwuani and she swears shes not igbo but maybe shes playing clearly she speaks igbo. but for some reason she doesnt like igbo for her  children, even her sisters aswell married edo men.

i think she thinks shes special cause she from delta state or whateva

sometimes she says shes bendel not igbo or sometimes they say delta igbo instead of igbo, my cuzzos say dont mind her shes an igbo lady with issues.

obviously some have issues

sbeezy8:

my cuzzos mom is from ukwuani and she swears shes not igbo but maybe shes playing clearly she speaks igbo. but for some reason she doesnt like igbo for her  children, even her sisters aswell married edo men.

i think she thinks shes special cause she from delta state or whateva

sometimes she says shes bendel not igbo or sometimes they say delta igbo instead of igbo, my cuzzos say dont mind her shes an igbo lady with issues.

obviously some have issues

During the early days of Igbo union/Ohanaeze, the Ukwuani leaders such as Hon Oputa etc played active roles in the organisation. After the war the anti Igbo Nigerian regimes encouraged them to see themselves as non IGBO and that idea were bought by some of them. But recently, some of them are coming back to their senses. The UKWUANI Union leader here in the U.K is a woman and has proudly identifie with us in our Igbo activities in The U.K.

sbeezy8:

my cuzzos mom is from ukwuani and she swears shes not igbo but maybe shes playing clearly she speaks igbo. but for some reason she doesnt like igbo for her  children, even her sisters aswell married edo men.

i think she thinks shes special cause she from delta state or whateva

sometimes she says shes bendel not igbo or sometimes they say delta igbo instead of igbo, my cuzzos say dont mind her shes an igbo lady with issues.

obviously some have issues

I have also meet people liek that especially in port harcount

this people are delusional

Where Agbotaen crosses the line is when he groups other groups together and calls them Igbo. What exactly makes them Igbo and not his Ika? I would like to know.

That is the biggest problem of most people facing self-imposed identity crisis.Just because they are looking for differences with themselves they end up being blinded from noticing that their is no peculiarity in them.

An example is the Ikwerre use of the word Isuama as a reference to the rest of Igbo or Ngwa use of Ohunhun in reference to the rest of Igbo.Many Ikwerres mistakenly presume that they are the only ones having a name for the rest of Igbo.People in Southern Owerri also call the rest of Igbo Isuama.People in Western Imo(Oguta area) call other Igbos "Nwigbo" or "Nwonyeigbo" same as people of Onitsha and midwest area.This name calling is wide spread and suggests one thing.

All these people are the same.While Isuama and Nri/Awka might be the core because of obvious over-population.

Another observation in my process of researching origin of various Igbo tribes is the recurrence of a man known as "Agidi","Ngidi","Wagidi" or "Nwangidi".He might actually be the Odua and Bayajjida of at least a large section of Igbo.
Though without any proven evidence besides the similarity of names,I believe the names represent the same man.

this are pictures of obi of owa kingdom

I HAVE JUST POSTED THE PICTURES OF THE OBI OF OWA KINGDOM IN IKA, WHEN HE WAS CORRONATED ,AND WHEN PERFORMING THE OSIEZI FESTIVAL ,AND WHILE ON OFFICIAL DRESSING.THIS OUTFITS SIMPLY SHOWS BENIN STYLE DRESSING FOR KINGS AND CHIEFS AND OWA NOBLE MEN . IT IS VERY CLEAR THAT OWA BEARS BENIN MARKS OF KINGSHIP, MIGRATION AND WAY OF LIFE , BUT ANOTHER MARK OWA BEARS IS THE IGBO CULTURAL MARK ,AS SOME OWA PEOPLE CAN ALSO TRACE THEIR ORIGIN TO IGBOLAND.,BUT THIS AMALGAMATION OF BENIN AND IGBO HAS CRERATED IKA ETHNIC GROUP .IT DEFINES OUR CULTURE AND WE ARE NEITHER IGBO NOR BENIN , BUT WE ARE SIMPLY IKA PEOPLE. OUR FORE-FATHERS HAVE BATTLED BINI FOR COUNTLESS YEARS TO PROTECT OUT IDENTITY AND WE WILL NEVER BE SUBJECTED BY TRICK OR INTIMIDATION TO BECOME IGBO, WE ARE SIMPLY IKA. AND WE ARE VERY PROUD OF WHO WE ARE. I DO AGREE THAT THERE ARE STILL SOME IKAS THAT SAY THE ARE IGBO, THAT IS THEIR FREE RIGHBUT FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF IKA PEOPLE , AND 100 PERCENT OF OWA ,PEOPLE WE ARE IKA , SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT IKA ,ALWAYS TRY TO TELL US OUR HISTORY ,BUT THAT IS VERY ABSURD.,

@ agbotaen, good you are Bini, Ika is Igbo, fair enough. I hope this makes you happy, right?

1. IKA does not have to claim igbo to be relevant in nigeria, before the advent of the europeans  the ika nation ,existed as different kingdoms, some times they were in benin kingdom, and at other times they existed as individual kingdoms and some of them later became very powerful conquering others.
2.   ika people are in two  states in nigeria today  delta and edo state, and we are not claiming to be igbo, no  ika king belongs to any igbo tribal group  , because we have our own socio-cultural group called ogua and onu ika ,it is headed by chief fortune ebie from agbor , while the secretary is major general usiade from owa kingdom, we also have ika elders forum headed by justice ehiwarrior from owa kingdom ,while the secretary is chief ehikwe from agbor. the ika national hall is in agbor-that is where all  ika people meet to take decisions that affect them.the other organisation ikas belong to is the anioma meeting , and we have always made our stance known that while we are in anioma, we are of the ika ethnic group.
3. the civil war has nothing to do with our calling ourselves ika , let me recall history as far back as 1930 , when benin people told the british people that ikas are binis and that ika land belong to benin , our fore fathers wrote to the british and rejected that theory ,and they said they are ika people and they are different from any other tribal group in nigeria . was there a nigerian civil war as at 1930 ?
4.when the great benin historian jacob eghrevba wrote in his book ,a short history of benin written in 1930,s , why did he call us eka or ika ? why did he call us an ethnic group or ika country ? and he said ika were very rebellious against benin , do  you know why ? it is because we cheerish our freedom, and he called ASABA area igbo country . he said oba ewuare conquered eka country and asaba igbo country.
5. IKA  HAVE ACHIEVED A LOT  in nigeria too , as we have our own share of prominent citizens and trall blazers  such as 1. jim-ovia -former M.D. OF ZENITH BANK and owner of visafone, 2. mr .emefiele the present ,M.D. of zenith bank .3. we have produced many generals for nigerian army like generals usiade, aigbogun, osokogu, iruh, ebie, osaigbovou and others, 3. rt. deputy inspector general  ugbaja, and many commissioners of police, and rear admiral eluma, and others , we also produced the first nigerian naval officer to be trained abroad , anuku and first commander of biafran navy , 4. we have produced minister like anuku edward, secretary to govt. like okowa, deputy governor in sam ebonma, and an acting governor of delta state in the person of sam obi, 5. we have ambassador keshi and echegile.6. miss nigeria in person of rita anuku, promient film stars like hanks anuku, musicians like alariwo of africa  7. great media men like nduka irabor ,and the owner of this day prince nduka obaigbena ,and others .8. professors like mabatah , osaigbovou, okoh, igborgbor, igbon, prof. mrs. okoh, osabohien and others .9.we have produces people like dr.cairo ojougboh who was special adviser to musa yardua and later to good luck jonathan the president of nigeria.
10. ika has produced world class monarchs in the dein of agbor kingdom, whom the guiness book of world record says is the youngest monarch crowned in the world, he is also the youngest pro-chancellor of a university in africa , he is mentioned in africa year book  who is who , and he also became the youngest person in belgiums 500 years history to be come a recipient of the royal award . he also presided over one of the most ancient kingdom in nigeria, and the obi of owa who is equally greatly recognised for his literary prowess, and statesmanship , also appearing in african year book who is who.
6.  finally i want to say that last saturday ika people just lunched the new testament written in ika language ,and work is on oging in making sure that the whole of the bible is translated in to ika .this is being done by ika language committee.
    finally we of the ika ethnic origin are not confussed  at all , we are happy being ika, it is others who always want to tell us who we are .
        you do not have to claim to be any body to be some body , all you need to do is to be yourself,as there are many towns in delta state that say they are igbo ,it is good ,but that did not translate to any thing good for them, but there are also others who say they are igbo and they progressed like aASABA  kingdom-they have made progress in delta state. so  let every kingdom or people be free to claim whatever they like. atleast the united nations still gives a people the right to self determination, no matter how small their population is

i am not benin , i am ika and ikas are not claiming to be benin people ,just as we are not claiming to be igbo, so please stop confussing issues.

agbotaen:

i am not benin , i am ika and ikas are not claiming to be benin people ,just as we are not claiming to be igbo, so please stop confussing issues.

Remember the bolded.

But Agbotaen, seriously though. Why not just leave the topic and let it die. You've already said an overwhelming lot.

1. no body forces any one to be what they are not , ishan and bini people speak almost an  identical language ,but ishan is a seperate ethnic group from benin.
2. isoko and uhrobho speak almost same language but they are two different ethnic groups.
3. ika  ethnic group needs no other ethnic group to stand we do  not need benin or igbo to stand ,we have defined our future since ancient times ,we are ika and that is all. if we trace some of our history to benin or some parts of igbo land ,it is just for purely academic issues and to know our past .the ika people as a unit ,congrgates and takes decisions that will favour ika ,and we can decided to work with any other ethnic group that will favour us. even the nigerian government does not force people to be grouped with others in any ethnic association.
5. there are many ethnic groups in edo that are smaller than ika or as much as ika like igara, uneme,esatko people and others though they live with bigger groups like bini and ishan , that did not make them merge and they are making progress , even the adams oshiomole is not bini or ishan , he comes from a smaller ethnic group in edo state , yet he is the governor of edo state.it is only those who dont know their worth that like to join     the band wagon of a big tribe.
6. ika ethnic group will not be used for number game by any  ethnic group ,we stand as our own people.

The truth has to be said. I've come across different Ika people that claim and disclaim being Igbo and i don't fault any of them because anyone can choose to call himself whatever. Note that Igbo is an ethnicity and not a tribe. Meaning that it's a combination of people from different tribes who speak different dialects of the same language(Igbo). Ethnicity is more like an association rather than lineage. There's nothing wrong with saying Ika is Igbo and there's also nothing wrong with saying they are not. It's the people that make up Ikaland that can determine what they should be called and not any Ika organization or whoever. Agboetan says he's not Igbo, so let's beleive him. He has a reason for saying that. But what gets people annoyed is when you try to put all Ika people in the same basket.

@ Agboetan
Mind you, most of those prominent Ika people you mentioned are classified as Igbo by Nigerians and they've not for once denied being Igbo. And i never knew Hanks Anuku was Ika. I loved the Igbo he spoke in a movie title Derico.

afam4eva:

The truth has to be said. I've come across different Ika people that claim and disclaim being Igbo and i don't fault any of them because anyone can choose to call himself whatever. Note that Igbo is an ethnicity and not a tribe. Meaning that it's a combination of people from different tribes who speak different dialects of the same language(Igbo). Ethnicity is more like an association rather than lineage. There's nothing wrong with saying Ika is Igbo and there's also nothing wrong with saying they are not. It's the people that make up Ikaland that can determine what they should be called and not any Ika organization or whoever. Agboetan says he's not Igbo, so let's beleive him. He has a reason for saying that. But what gets people annoyed is when you try to put all Ika people in the same basket.

@ Agboetan
Mind you, most of those prominent Ika people you mentioned are classified as Igbo by Nigerians and they've not for once denied being Igbo. And i never knew Hanks Anuku was Ika. I loved the Igbo he spoke in a movie title Derico.

Hanks Anuku is Ika, and even from the famous owa kingdom?

Christ! I would never had thought that.

All his mannerisms are Igbo, despite his American accent.

I think there's something Igbo about Ika that some folks are trying to hide.

To digress a bit, does Ikaland have oil? That's usually the catalyst for Igbo denial.