and the bendel state igbo kids said they were ibos because they saw the igbos across the niger as bush people. whatever was their reason, i dont know. but as an adult, i have noticed the sharp contrast between both groups.

and when my enugu ex told me we are the real igbos while delta igbos are the fake ones. i also said, ok cool. you are the real igbos. those delta igbos are the fake ones. and in mind, i remembered my childhood delta igbo friends who didnt want to be called "igbos" anyways.

exotik:

this whole delta igbo / eastern igbo matter. from my own personal experiences, the delta igbos are more “mannered” and “cultured” than the across the niger igbos.

What makes you say that?

ezeagu:

What makes you say that?

well, as a kid i spent some of my years in ogwashi uku bendel state now delta state when my dad was posted there. and as an adult, i did my nysc in ohafia abia state. the igbos in the far east are very "aggressive" while those in the delta are  more "reserved".

exotik:

well, as a kid i spent some of my years in ogwashi uku bendel state now delta state when my dad was posted there. and as an adult, i did my nysc in ohafia abia state. the igbos in the far east are very "aggressive" while those in the delta are  more "reserved".

Why wouldn't you think the eastern Igbo are aggressive, you were in Ohafia! Not only is that bush, but they are the archetypal warriors in Igboland. Anyway, Igboland isn't split culturally or socially only into eastern and western sections.

The culture(?) division I see in Igboland includes:

The main three:

Northern
Anambra, Enugu (Benue small communities), Ebonyi

Southern
Abia, Imo, Rivers

Western
Delta (Edo small communities)

They can be split down further to

North
True North (Nsukka, Ngwo, Enugu, etc)
Northwestern (Ebonyi, Some parts of Abia)
North central (Nri-Awka-Nnewi, etc)

South
True South (Ikwerre, Port Harcourt, Ndoki, etc)
South west, (Owerre, etc)
South east (Umuahia, Ngwa, Mbaise, Aro etc)

Western
True West (Ika, Igbanke)
West central (Aniocha, Asaba, etc)
South west (Ukwuani)

The culture most people see as core Igbo culture is North central, most internal conflict in all of Igboland is because of this group who are seen as dominating, when an Ikwerre person or an Ika says they are not Igbo, they are not necessarily saying they are no longer kin with those in the south, or they aren't brothers with those in the West.

The most distant people in Igboland are the Westerners, particularly the True West.

The most undermined culture is that of the North west, but they have retained their culture better than most.

The most cultured, in my opinion, are the True North.

The most aggressive are definitely the South east.

lol, ezeagu, the igbos in owerri (which is actually a beautiful city) were not so different from those at ohafia. in fact, you start noticing the "aggression" the minute you cross the river niger from asaba into onitsha which is less than 30mins or so drive. once you cross niger valley, no one will remind you that you are in igboland

ezeagu:

The culture(?) division I see in Igboland includes:

Yeah, I was going to say, your breakdown seems more geographic than cultural, though culture and geography are in many respects connected. I actually think you can also separate 'Cross Rivers' [Eastern] Igbo from 'Southern'.

and i also noticed while we were in camp, a lot of “igbos” couldn’t understand each other even though they were supposedly speaking the same "language". and i noticed that with the yorubas who were there also. they couldn’t understand each other and when i asked why, they will say that particular igbo is a different dialect in igbo, that particular yoruba is a different dialect in yoruba. and i thought wow, if it is igbo and if it is yoruba, then how come you as an igbo or yoruba person cant understand it? that baffled me. and i begin to understand why people always say nigeria has more than 300 languages.

exotik:

and i also noticed while we were in camp, a lot of “igbos” couldn’t understand each other even though they were supposedly speaking the same "language". and i noticed that with the yorubas who were there also. they couldn’t understand each other and when i asked why, they will say that particular igbo is a different dialect in igbo, that particular yoruba is a different dialect in yoruba. and i thought wow, if it is igbo and if it is yoruba, then how come you as an igbo or yoruba person cant understand it? that baffled me.

Just as there are many dialects in Yorubaland so also in Igboland. But the Yorubas of Ijebu, Ekiti or Owoh are not insane to disclaim Yoruba. While some individuals in Igboland have capitalised on this to see their groups as separate ethnic groups. Shame to all of them.

lol…Andre, i wouldn’t shame on them so quickly because i think the yoruba and igbo identity is one that eroded a lot of other languages because nigeria is often said to have more than 300 languages yet we never hear about them. so maybe those little distinct dialects are the languages we never hear about but they are all called yorubas and igbos.

i did enjoy my stay in igboland though, it made me tough. and if given the chance, i'd do it again coz i'd choose igboland to yorubaland or hausaland when the chips are down. gudnyt.

Andre, man, lay off. Language grouping is not equivalent to 'clan' or 'ethnic' affiliation.

exotik:

lol…Andre, i wouldn’t shame on them so quickly because i think the yoruba and igbo identity is one that eroded a lot of other languages because nigeria is often said to have more than 300 languages yet we never hear about them. so maybe those little distinct dialects are the languages we never hear about but they are all called yorubas and igbos.

Even in this thread, you can see how an Ikaman (Agbontaen) has been very quick to labe Ika anethnic group separate from Igbo. Now another Ika and a proud Igbo has joined the thread to teach him some lessons. Just watch out for Ogbuefi's posts here.

ChinenyeN:

Andre, man, lay off. Language grouping is not equivalent to 'clan' or 'ethnic' affiliation.

Do you mean that language groupings of Ekiti, Ijebu etc are not Equivalent to Yoruba ethnic group?.

I still don't understand why you feel the need to always associate Yoruba or Hausa or some other group that ISN'T 'Igbo'. The structure and situation of those other groups are not the same as the 'Igbo', but that's beside the point. What I was addressing when I said what I said is your whole 'shame to all of them' gara gara, knowing full-well that no one is obligated to see themselves as 'Igbo'. Anyway, I'm just saying. I can't stand your approach to this thing sometimes. 'Shame on them'. . . shame on who? What is 'Igbo' that anyone must identify with it as 'their' ethnic group? That's what I'm saying. So no 'shame' on anybody. Carry that somewhere else.

exotik:

lol, ezeagu, the igbos in owerri (which is actually a beautiful city) were not so different from those at ohafia. in fact, you start noticing the "aggression" the minute you cross the river niger from asaba into onitsha which is less than 30mins or so drive. once you cross niger valley, no one will remind you that you are in igboland

Have you been to Enugu?

ChinenyeN:

Yeah, I was going to say, your breakdown seems more geographic than cultural, though culture and geography are in many respects connected. I actually think you can also separate 'Cross Rivers' [Eastern] Igbo from 'Southern'.

The different sections show a significant change in culture and affiliation. The Cross River Igbo are mostly in the North east (Ebonyi and some parts of Abia).

ezeagu:

Why wouldn't you think the eastern Igbo are aggressive, you were in Ohafia! Not only is that bush, but they are the archetypal warriors in Igboland. Anyway, Igboland isn't split culturally or socially only into eastern and western sections.

The culture(?) division I see in Igboland includes:

The main three:

Northern
Anambra, Enugu (Benue small communities), Ebonyi

Southern
Abia, Imo, Rivers

Western
Delta (Edo small communities)

They can be split down further to

North
True North (Nsukka, Ngwo, Enugu, etc)
Northwestern (Ebonyi, Some parts of Abia)
North central (Nri-Awka-Nnewi, etc)

South
True South (Ikwerre, Port Harcourt, Ndoki, etc)
South west, (Owerre, etc)
South east (Umuahia, Ngwa, Mbaise, Aro etc)

Western
True West (Ika, Igbanke)
West central (Aniocha, Asaba, etc)
South west (Ukwuani)

The culture most people see as core Igbo culture is North central, most internal conflict in all of Igboland is because of this group who are seen as dominating, when an Ikwerre person or an Ika says they are not Igbo, they are not necessarily saying they are no longer kin with those in the south, or they aren't brothers with those in the West.

The most distant people in Igboland are the Westerners, particularly the True West.

The most undermined culture is that of the North west, but they have retained their culture better than most.

The most cultured, in my opinion, are the True North.

The most aggressive are definitely the South east.

You made a very grave mistake in that southern Igbo classification.Mbaise,Ngwa,Asa,Ohuhu,Etche and Ndoki definitely belong.Ikwerre and Oratta(Owerri) are more closely related while Ogba,Egbema,Oguta,Ohaji and Ndoni belong to another class.

ChinenyeN:

I still don't understand why you feel the need to always associate Yoruba or Hausa or some other group that ISN'T 'Igbo'. The structure and situation of those other groups are not the same as the 'Igbo', but that's beside the point. What I was addressing when I said what I said is your whole 'shame to all of them' gara gara, knowing full-well that no one is obligated to see themselves as 'Igbo'. Anyway, I'm just saying. I can't stand your approach to this thing sometimes. 'Shame on them'. . . shame on who? What is 'Igbo' that anyone must identify with it as 'their' ethnic group? That's what I'm saying. So no 'shame' on anybody. Carry that somewhere else.

Until you or someone else explains to me why Ijebu or Ekiti are Yoruba, Katsina and Zaria are Hausa while Ika is not Igbo.
Once again shame to them. I will still write it again and again and you can't stop me from doing it.

Andre Uweh:

Until you or someone else explains to me why Ijebu or Ekiti are Yoruba, Katsina and Zaria are Hausa while Ika is not Igbo.
Once again shame to them. I will still write it again and again and you can't stop me from doing it.

the reason is that the yoruba and hausa HAD an empire and this groups were there

the igbo never had an empire, but a kingdom which was agurablly not a really kingdom as the nri people were more or less like nomads

if aro had conquequed the east then, maybe they will all bear igbo but that is not the case

i hope u understand brother

Andre Uweh:

Until you or someone else explains to me why Ijebu or Ekiti are Yoruba, Katsina and Zaria are Hausa while Ika is not Igbo.
Once again shame to them. I will still write it again and again and you can't stop me from doing it.

Don't play dumb. You know why. Stop being silly. . . but for the sake of the discussion, here is the straightforward answer below. .

alj_harem:

the reason is that the yoruba and hausa HAD an empire. . .

. . . while the 'Igbo' have forever been independent ethnic communities (what nationalistic 'Igbo' so love to call 'clans').

ezeagu:

The different sections show a significant change in culture and affiliation. The Cross River Igbo are mostly in the North east (Ebonyi and some parts of Abia).

The sections (particularly the southern one, in my opinion) can still be broken down further, though, if the focus is really cultural.

ChinenyeN:

The sections (particularly the southern one, in my opinion) can still be broken down further, though, if the focus is really cultural.

It can, just like it can be broken down to the village level, but these are the broader divisions.

I get that, but my point is that it's too broad and too inclusive. In that 'Southern' Igbo group, it seems like you've got 'Riverine' Igbo, actual 'Southern' Igbo, some 'Cross River' [Eastern] Igbo, and quite possibly some 'North-Central' Igbo as well. It's just too inclusive.

abagoro:


You made a very grave mistake in that southern Igbo classification.Mbaise,Ngwa,Asa,Ohuhu,Etche and Ndoki definitely belong.Ikwerre and Oratta(Owerri) are more closely related while Ogba,Egbema,Oguta,Ohaji and Ndoni belong to another class.

They are probably the south west while Owerre maybe more of the other southern groups although they are still kind of in the middle with other groups to their west.

ChinenyeN:

I get that, but my point is that it's too broad and too inclusive. In that 'Southern' Igbo group, it seems like you've got 'Riverine' Igbo, actual 'Southern' Igbo, some 'Cross River' [Eastern] Igbo, and quite possibly some 'North-Central' Igbo as well. It's just too inclusive.

Riverine Igbo are southern Igbo, or what would be 'True South' in my earlier post. Cross River and North Central Igbo aren't part of the south.

ezeagu:

Riverine Igbo are southern Igbo, or what would be 'True South' in my earlier post. Cross River and North Central Igbo aren't part of the south.

Geographically, yeah, if you draw a line midway across Igbo area, but not as a cultural division. 'True South' would be Uratta-Ngwa-Echee-Ikwere axis. Cross River and North Central aren't part of the south, but you've got some elements of them grouped along with the south. Aro for example are Cross River, but you've got them grouped with the south. Another example is Isu groups (Imo state), who are culturally North Central, but it looks like you've grouped them with the south too.

@ ogbuefi

guy, you are now making comments in “invisible” mode?  coz your comment appeared and appears on my phone but as i as login my lappy I cant see it on the thread? lol, really guy, how old are you? anyway i know you can read this post and your atrocious comments that i read was the reason i joined this forum and discussion. and you seem to be one of those who feel their story is the “authentic” one while others are based on hearsay. i will not even bother to go into the risk my very own grandmother (God rest her soul) took for the so-called “anioma man” (who was her tenant) and saved the his life and that of and his pregnant wife from federal troops because that will just be fruitless to someone like you. and you come here to act as if all or most of the anioma people were mostly landlords and property owners in benin and they were all “good and loving” people before the binis betrayed them. please, spare me the bullcrap.

anyway, so an “anioma man” like you who sees himself as “igbo” expected biafran troops who were igbos to “take over” benin city and expected the binis to sit down and watch? you are a fool. and how did biafran troops “take over” and occupied benin city before they binis realized they had to defend themselves? they did that by not even killing a single civilian soul. they must have been fvcking war geniuses who deserve all types of medals.

but here is the deal, the binis have nothing to be ashamed of. it was a war, the same war started by the same igbos. the same war that the binis didnt even initiate and  wanted nothing to do with in the first place, and they defended themselves and their land from invaders. so what the fvck is wrong with that? i am an oviedo kpataki who was not even born before or during the war but that is actually a heroic act to me so i have nothing to atone for. but since you are one of the deluded anioma igbos, you can continue to play the role of a victim as if you did no wrong and carry on with your hate for binis which i kinda find amusing because it would be amusing for the british to ask the binis to atone for whatever british citizens whether civilian or soldier who died while the binis were defending themselves against british invasion. wont that be amusing to say the least? british or, a biafran like you now asking for atonement from the binis because the binis defended themselves against invaders.

but no, don’t stop, keep on crying wolf and carry on with your hatred for the binis because i can see it has developed you mentally and made you want to strive hard for the betterment of your anioma people, good for you. if that is only the good thing that comes out of the hatred, at the end of the day, you will still have the binis to thank for it because it was the hatred for the binis and their perseverance of such hatred (even when unnecessary) that made you strive hard in the first place. so thank me later when anioma becomes a state and earthly paradise.

and here is another thing i find interesting ogbuefi, benin city is no longer the capital of the midwest, bendel, and delta state, and won’t be the capital of the proposed anioma state. so what are anioma igbos still doing in benin? because i am currently living in benin and some of my friends are anioma igbos and everywhere i go i see anioma igbos and even igbos from the far east with various other tribes including a heavy influx of hausa. in fact, benin city  is now more of a cosmopolitan city where you have enclaves of various tribes, although the anioma igbos are easily visible.

and if igboland (anioma inclusive) have all these infrastructures and industries, why can’t they fvcking stay in their states? are they so greedy that they want to settle and occupy all the cities and towns in nigeria that do not even have infrastructures and amenities to match their own back home? because there seem to be no city or town across nigeria that the indigenes do not share with large occupants of igbos (anioma stock inclusive), and some end up complaining bitterly about them.

the delusion of some igbo people like you who always want to rub the “success” of their states, towns and villages in the face of others while igbos can never seem to stay home. i wasn’t feeling well recently and the nurse who treated me is an igbo girl all the way from umuahia, abia state, working in a privately owned clinic in benin owned by a calabar woman married to a bini man. and naturally i get along well with igbos, so i found myself chatting with her and she invited me to her church and when i attended it was a church full of anioma igbos with a few other tribes. so what are all this people still doing in benin? why cant an anioma pastor start his church in the industrial anioma land? better still, why can’t a qualified igbo nurse who is not only young but beautiful find a job in the entire igboland (anioma inclusive) but now had to come to benin to find one, and she will likely end up settling in benin?

ChinenyeN:

Don't play dumb. You know why. Stop being silly. . . but for the sake of the discussion, here is the straightforward answer below. .
. . . while the 'Igbo' have forever been independent ethnic communities (what nationalistic 'Igbo' so love to call 'clans').

Monkey, you are the one that is silly here. There was never at any time that the Hausa had an empire that covered up all of Hausaland. CASTRATED MONKEY, what Hausas had was independent city states.
Also, In Yorubaland, there was never an empire that covered the whole of Yorubaland. Even some Yoruba groups were under Benin empire. It is very idiotic for a clown like you to use empire or kingdom to answer my question. I hope this settles in your monkey skull. Idiott.

there is no esan that an esan man will speak that i as a bini man will not understand, but you don’t see binis claiming esans are binis or vice versa, and when i listen carefully i can even understand the so-called igbanke because these languages are heavily laced with bini, even the ika is laced with bini and i can pick some words and phrases. whereas a lot of the so-called “igbos” cannot even understand each other, but people like you will continue to say the binis are a “one city” people even though the binis can understand these other languages laced with bini and some of them can understand bini. so yeah,  the binis only have benin city and we will continue to cherish and keep it from deluded “anioma igbos” and likeminded people like you. so igbuefi pass that message to “your people” who are still in benin and tell them to pack and stay the fvck out. please.

and oh, then the most amusing thing is you come here to make statements that “the mindset if the igbo man is survival and to bear no grudges”  blah blah blah, yet your post speaks otherwise. just reading through, any sane person can see that your post reeks of all types of grudges for binis. yet it would seem it is only the igbo man that can hold all these grudges while the binis cant. the igbo man can complain bitterly about how the binis “massacred” them but the binis should bear no grudge of how the igbo man invaded his land and “only city”. no, the binis should shut up and be quiet. they have no interest, no political power, no economic agenda. who the fvck are they anyway? the igbo man can poo on his head, piss in his mouth, invade his land during war and he should say and do nothing. you are a very big and mighty fool. in fact i don’t even know how to describe you.

one of the most profound statement made by Physics that moved me and i could understand what he was trying say is when he said the binis are the most liberal people in Nigeria as far as he is concerned, and i stand by the statement. living in benin alone, you can easily notice that. The binis living in benin city hardly even communicate in bini anymore just to accommodate all these other tribes who cant speak the language yet they are never satisfied. the only time binis speak their language is when they hear your name, then they ask “oviedo kpataki uwe ghin?” meaning "are you the core bini?” because esan though is understood by almost all binis are not binis, and since esan share same names with binis but they have their own identity, not to mention the other tribes who share bini names like the so-called igbanke and even ika people, so thats why the binis ask “oviedo kpataki uwe ghin?” and if you say yes that’s when they speak bini.  but if you say “no, i can't understand what u are saying” or you can pick the question and say “no, im oviesan” or “oviurhobo” or “ovigbo” etc  then they say ok, and speak the language you will understand which is usually english or pidgin english.  so even the bini language is dying due to the liberal nature of binis. and that is why you hardly see other tribes who are living in benin city learn bini because the bini themselves are not speaking the language but rather adopting english or pidgin english just to accommodate other tribes for effective communication, yet idiots like you are never satisfied.

i served in the far east and have spent some time in yorubaland and the igbos and yorubas frustrated me with their language because everywhere i went they were all speaking their language. it was obvious i was foreigner. the igbos will even try and switch to english when they know you are a foreigner but the minute the yorubas realize you cant speak the language that is when they will press fast foward and start speaking the “konk” yoruba. but here a dumb fool like you is calling the binis tribalistic people.

and from the way some you nigerians talk it is if their parts of nigeria is like vienna or paris while the closest town they are talking against is like afghan. so iguefi or whatever you the fvck you call yourself, if you really care about your anioma people so much like you claim, start relocating them from benin now back to the “industrialized” anioma land that has all the amenities and infrastructure that the bini man has never seen and will not see in years to come, so that history will not repeat itself again because the binis will resist any “take over” of edoland especially our “only city” benin. i just dey tell you down now, abeg.

Andre Uweh:

Monkey [. . .] CASTRATED MONKEY [. . .] I hope this settles in your monkey skull. Idiott.

No. I will not entertain this your bullshit, Andre. If you seriously want to talk like this, then go find bk.babe or any of the other characters you so love to engage, but do not bring this bullshit around me. I will not entertain it. Nationalist Igbo. When will you learn that not everything is a fight?

Now, as for the discussion, I still say take your 'shame' talk and your convenience label elsewhere; go present it to people who actually care, and leave the rest of us to our independent ethnic communities (or 'clans' as you prefer to call them). My people say a koruora okho ngwhere ya akuruo isi; end of story. Enough with your bullshit.

@ exotik,

You've repeated this several times that Binis don't claim Esan when but languages are mutually intelligible.
You failed to understand that Esan is not classed as an ethnic group; they along with Bini and others are classed as Edo group.
So Esan and Bini are more or less dialects of a language which non-natives call Edo.
Within your group, I don't you if there's any acceptable name for your group just like many Igbo clans now accept Igbo and Yoruba clans accept Yoruba as their group names.