@Ogbuefi1 I had tried to educate you but your heart is hardened to learning. If the Binis do not know the distinction why do they not call all Igbos Ika? They know the difference between the Ondo/Ekiti and other Yorubas but not that of western Igboland and the rest Igbo?The people the Binis have been having contact with for centuries and another that `surfaced` due to colonialism they cannot tell the difference? And this Igboitic tendency from some Ikas is very recent.Or is it not?Did you claim to be Igbo a century ago?Did you know that Ngwa existed? Do the Ikas call the Abribas Ika?
Do not move on.Come fight another losing war.Keep cowering in your corner and firing blanks from there.
Your airport comment shows that you do not even know how airports operate. And,why not an Anioma or Igbo airport before Benin City`s?
The Obi of Abavo comment does not deserve a reply. You have a chance to modify it.If that was meant as an actual  response to my earlier post then I am sorry for you.
Commercial and financial are not the same. Aba and Onitsha are more commercial(buying and selling).A financial house might never see the money traded in the marketplaces of Igboland.
This is my last post on this issue.Even when you decide to go to the United Nations afterwards or Eguasa,goodluck.

iguefi, i will not bother arguing with a fool like u on the igbanke issue coz i can see u are  u are one of those who believe u are the one speaking for "your people", whereas even on this thread alone u can see the diverse opinions of "your people". lots of ikas do not identify as "igbo" and do not want anything to do with them, and this na just internet o not real-life. so what are u going to do with such people in real-life? annihilate them all so that u can push your agenda?

the austin lazarus who is not even big of a deal, uve been throwing his name around has a house in benin, but an "igbo" man in the east would hardly sell land to me as a bini man or non-indigenous person to build his house on. this is land i want to buy o, not dash, with my own money in my own country nigeria, yet igbo man will tell me he will not sell to me coz im a foreigner. even in my own country im regarded as a foreigner, yet the binis are "self-proclaimed" liberals. like i said my stay in the east made me tough and appreciate where im coming from and to focus on my people. so if all the nonsense u are spewing on this thread is what u are preaching to your people, let me assure u, u are not helping them but drawing them back. i think i will leave u to your internet bickering and concentrate on what's real.

@Bokohalal, You are unfit to educate me.If the Benin understood the difference so well between the Ika and Eastern Igbo then an event of that nature would never happen.As for Exotik I knew you are refering to the likes of Omojie and I can categorically tell you that his opinion is a minority one.The fact that we dont shout over the issue does not mean we donot know.

Abagworo has said it all, Benin is a land many of us originated from and indeed according to Bokohalal, the Benins understand perfectly the difference between the Eastern Igbo and the Anioma yet so many were killed.It is important to note that history bitter or sweet should be told.We remain close to the Benin and we shall always remain close to them .Whether you think persons like me have not moved on , is your own personal business and cup of tea.I was born abt the time it happened but I cant tell exactly what happened but I can tell you that I "enjoyed " the Nigerian-induced poverty that followed the war.
Let it be known that the Anioma people have forgiven the Edo and other peoples that committed atrocities against them and have moved on with their lives.And it must as be noted that I am not in position to mis-educated my people on their history.They know their history so well.On the issue of Igbanke, I am yet to be given a response why the Oba would install a native of Igbanke as a palace chief with the mandate of destabilizing the genuine clamour of his own people.I therefore donot have the time to ague with insincere people.

lol, iguefi, stop saying you have moved on when it is clear you haven’t. and trust me, the ikas who do not feel "igbo" (across the niger/east) and don’t identify as such are not in the minority, they are just not vocal about it. i grew up around these people and they will be quick to tell u who they are when it is time for such issues.

and u are not here to educate anybody coz no educated nigerian needs to be educated about what happened during the war. u are here to smear the binis and impose your opinions on others who do not share same sentiments. so do the best u can and keep it moving.

and u also seem to be one of those who has benefitted immensely from the binis and edos in general and i actually think u live in benin, yet u hate us so much. all im going to tell u is be careful with who u align urself with because those who u think “loves” you so much may not be doing it in your own interest.  and these are my parting words to u coz i really don’t care about having the “last word” with anybody on the internet. take care.

exotik:

and trust me, the ikas who do not feel "igbo" and don’t identify as such are not in the minority, they are just not vocal about it.

Actually it's the other way round, and the important Ika people identify as Igbo.

lol, ezeagu, so which one is unimportant? so it is now a case of important ikas vs unimportant ikas? u guys are funny, man.
anyways, this topic is now boring to me, im out.

. .

Ogbuefi: @PhysicsMHD, 1)It is not a question of what I believe, thousands were killed in Benin and tens of thousands were killed in the Midwest and these were mainly the Anioma people.The federal troops were responsible with the  connivance of the indigenous people of Benin.This is fact and this was what was presented at the Oputa panel.I followed that case very closely therefore you dont read to refer me to what I am privy to.I expected that the Benin just as you have be  vainly been doing here to defend themselves but alas, Nothing came out of the Edo camp.Thank God you have accepted it with your question "What is there to counter?"

What evidence is there that thousands were killed in Benin?

What evidence is there that anybody went to the Oputa panel to claim that thousands were killed in Benin?

Why should I believe your claims about thousands killed in Benin when Igbo organizations (Ohaneze Igbo, among others) doesn't estimate the number killed in the entire Midwest as up to 10.000, yet here you are saying tens of thousands?

2)The issue is not about anti-Benin far from it.

Why are you so dishonest?

Did you read anything you wrote in your last post?

You're an incorrigible dumbass.

The Edo and Anioma people despite having a turbulent relationship spanning have always been vey close.In Jacob Egharevba's book on Benin

Jacob Egharevba wrote many books. You probably mean A Short History? Where did he say this? I want the specific quote.

he mentioned this close relationship much more than what had existed with other groups the Edos had shared a lot with.

Which groups?

The Anioma and Edo therefore donot have any problems but the issue here is that the natives of Benin played a shameful role during the war.

Once again,  you will tell me who these natives of Benin were, how many of them there were and who they reported to the federal troops and when. I don't accept statements about the "natives of Benin" when I've read nothing that suggests that the people being referred to were a significant fraction of the population.

3)The claims of over 1,000 is based on what was presented to the Oputa panel if you should know.

Where are you getting this from?

What went down at this Oputa panel that only you are privy to?

http://www.dawodu.com/oputa1.htm

http://www.kwenu.com/record/2005/ndm_oputa.htm



According to you, this claim was made, but it was not even considered important enough to put in writing even though the Warri and Sapele massacres were put down in writing (not in this report, but a separate article) with numerical estimates and descriptions of what happened from multiple sources and reference to where and who committed the killings. Yet your story of "many" Benins pointing out Igbos for executions has over 1000 killed with no supporting claim from anyone and the vague phrase "many" Benins.

My town Igbodo is just one out of the 100 or so autonomous towns of Aniomaland scattered in Edo,

There are a few Ika (Anioma) towns in Edo state and that's it. This wider "Edo" area does NOT currently exist, and it's precisely the fact that this wider Edo area does not exist that is one of the sources of all this debate in this thread.

Maybe U dont understand.Did I ever say Igbodo is in Edo State ?

Once again, don't insinuate that the Edo have anything to do with this Igbodo place that you come from. Nobody is here to hold brief for what the federal troops did to your town.

Rivers(Ndoni) and Delta states and I have so far identified some 11 people killed in Benin by the federal troops in connivance with the natives of Benin.You can do the multiplication yourself.

You're doing the multiplication, and coming up with whatever figures suit your fancy, because you think people will just believe anything.

There are of course some towns that suffered even more serious casualties and yet others who did not suffer that much.Mind you I never said and dont put words into my mouth that the Benins were hacking people to death.

As if I would wait for you to say it! Today the lie starts as thousands were killed in Benin or that the majority of Binis in Benin went  around telling federal soldiers to shoot Igbos, tomorrow it'll be something else.

What I said is that many Benins connived with the federal troops to annihilate the Anioma residents of the city with the intent of some of them to acquire their properties, It is as simple as that.

Many?

What is "many"?

I want numbers. I know, to within a reasonable uncertainty, what the population of Benin City was at that time and I also know what the population of the Binis was at that time (apart from population census figures, there were studies being carried out on the different "Edo-speaking" groups at that time, and the population of Benin city, and also the Binis is explicitly stated in some of them) and that's why I want you to tell me what you claim specifically happened to who and because of which Bini people instead of all these vague statements about "many Benins" and "the people of Benin."

4)Maybe U dont understand.Did I ever say Igbodo is in Edo State ? What I said was the atrocity committed on the Anioma people during their so-called liberation of our area.It has nothing to do with the Benin massacre of Anioma people carried out (and I will continue to repeat this by the federal troops in connivance with the natives of Benin).I also did not say the Benins mocked at our Obi.This was done by the federal troops

I don't see what that event has to do with anything that I posted then. I'm not here to hold brief for the federal troops.

5)The simple reason why the Anioma people had to return to Benin and other places is simple .They just wanted to forget the bitter past and build up their battered lives.Initially those who thought they had conquered were fond of mocking at us as losers , the mindset of the Igbo man is survival and never to bear grudges but it is important to send the records straight.I wonder the kind of conflict u are talking of.If it is on the post I am ready.I will not hide from telling you the truth no matter how bitter or unacceptable it is to you.

And I will continue to tell you the truth that you're a not-so-smart person and a deluded idi[i]o[/i]t. How can you return to where people supposedly want to kill you out of envy?

Why wouldn't we return to Benin where it was still our Benin City wa yet our capital ? Today many Southerners are killed in the North including Edo people why are they still there ? You should answer that simple question for me !

I don't know of Edo people getting killed in the North (I honestly haven't heard of a single case), but I know that Edo people are in some cities in the North (Kano and Maiduguri specifically, wouldn't be surprised if they are in several other cities) from relatives.  Anyhow, I have never heard that all of these killings in the north are out of known "envy" for a specific group so that is not comparable to what you're claiming.

That said, I don't know why so many southerners are in the North; they should leave the North in droves if these things keep happening.

6)Was his landlord envious of him ? Absolutely ; and this was the primary reason the Benin(and their counterparts in Warri and Sapele ) conspired with the federal troops to have the Anioma civilians amongst them killed.That was what happened.The federal troops asked him if there were any Igbos in his house, Hmmm my friend you are so funny.It was the man who invited the federal troops to his house!!!! In fact when they got there the federal troops  accused him of deceiving them because there were no Igbos in the house to be killed.

How did you reach these conclusions?


I was only asking if his landlord was envious of him because that seemed unusual. As for the rest of your statements, the man could certainly have invited the federal troops, but I just didn't buy your story initially because the angle you put on it didn't add up. Whatever made the man betray your relative and invite federal troops, it does not prove this your claim about thousands or about "many" Benins.

7)I will advice you make more research on the Saudana before you counter the facts presented to you on this post, OK

What facts?

Do you have a brain?

Has it occurred to you that an unconfirmed, sourceless Nigerian newspaper article attributing a conveniently conspiratorial statement to a man who had enemies and was disliked by some people in other parts of the country is not a hard fact?

Incidentally, there are other, probably authentic quotes from that era from Northern politicians that express the "born to rule Nigeria" sentiment, and a few of them are found in Nwankwo and Ifejika's book on Biafra, but they are different from this quote.

That particular quote has no backing. It intrigued me when I first saw it and I bought it for a short while, but later I thought about it and realized that there's no evidence.

Cool For a while until the "actual" details of the coup became known to some Northern soldiers, until the whole Ironsi saga, Very funny .My it seems I dont know the actual details of the coup.I will be grateful if you tell me the actual details.And thanks for the correction   Ademoyega.I know he wrote a book and nothing could be more actual than the contents of that book.

There is too much written on this for you to be asking me to break down what happened for you. But it is a fact that the full details of the coup and even the deaths of some of the soldiers who were killed were not known until much later than after the coup happened. In fact, for a while, people weren't even aware that Balewa was dead - they only reported him as "missing." There is even a video from 1966 that was posted a while back on this forum in which he is described as missing by reporters. Also, things like certain soldiers being thrown from hotel windows after being killed were not known for a while. See Max Siollun's book: Oil, Politics and Violence: Nigeria's Military Coup Culture (1966 – 1976) for more on the coup.

9)There is a difference between what people "claim" and what is the case in reality." I dont know how that that went over your head" I demand an apology for that insult or you will stark what would be a serious verbal confrontation between us.So it was only the Igbos that celebrated in the North Abi ? I dont blame you.You are just displaying your ignorance.So the Yorubas did not celebrate perhaps they were in deep mourning in the North !           Everyone even many oppressed people of the Middle Belt celebrated. The reason why they pointed out to the Igbos was simply to justify their progrom which was organised by their leaders.Of recent in the North did they not kill Southerners residing in Kano for the bombs thrown by the United States on Afganistan and when their leaders were asked why the killings they said "Oh it is the hoodlums" These people will always give excuses for their atrocities , just get that.I am happy that Nigerians from the South are beginning to ealise this.

You're just really dumb.

Did I say Igbos celebrated in the North? I implied that they didn't actually celebrate in the north, not that they did. Go back and read everything that I wrote about the coup. You seem to have problems with basic reading comprehension, hence all of these things going over your head (yeah, I said it again, no apologies there.)

I never said it was an Igbo coup. I implied that it was NOT.

I never said Igbos celebrated in the North.

9)I never said Aniomaland is a paradise , so dont misquote me.However Aniomaland remains the most transformed region of the old Midwest.

This is what I know:

1. Edo state produces the lowest amount of Nigeria's oil among any oil producing state (roughly 1%) and its allocation is proportional to its barely-oil-producing status. (That is, only some of Edo state's oil is being tapped.)

2. Delta state produces 30% of Nigeria's oil and its allocation is proportional. In addition, the population of Delta is about a million more than that of Edo.

3,  That Anioma villages may or may not have some advantage over their Edo counterparts in electrification would not have to do with the actions of any individual Anioma person, since there is nothing to suggest that the LGAs or the villages themselves were capable of electrifying their communities with their own money and know-how. Perhaps you've heard the phrase "you can't get something from nothing" before. That applies here. You can thank all that oil money for the electrification of Anioma villages.

It seems the issue there is money. If Delta state had less resources, there's NOTHING to suggest that this electrification would have taken place, as I've never heard of any group in Delta state previously electrifying many of their communities from their own private resources and know-how.

Where does Delta's advantage come from?

"ECONOMY
Delta State is a major oil producing state and ranks second to Rivers State. The State supplies about 35% of Nigeria's crude oil and some considerable amount of natural gas. The oil producing local government areas are Warri North and South, Burutu, Isoko North and South, Ughelli North and South, Okpe, Ethiope East and West, Sapele and Ndokwa East and West. The nation's second refinery as well as petrochemical plant are located in the state at Warri."

http://www.nigeriagalleria.com/Nigeria/States_Nigeria/Delta_State.html


Now from a different article (before Akwa Ibom lost those oil wells):

"The state produces around 30% of Nigeria's total oil output, and accordingly, is responsible for the generation of a significant proportion of the country's foreign currency inflows."

"The State's considerable dependence on federally allocated revenue, with internally generated revenue accounting
for a low 11 % of total income. In this regard, the State is exposed to potential changes in the Federation Account.
• Furthermore, as the majority of the State's revenue is essentially derived from oil production, it is exposed to
fluctuations in the international oil price, leading to low predictability of federal allocations."


"Delta State's economy is dominated by two primary activities, namely agriculture and oil production. As
approximately 70% of the workforce is involved in small scale farming activities, adverse climatic conditions could
threaten the livelihood of the majority of the population and place the State under significant financial strain."

"A major economic activity of the State is oil as Delta
State produces around 30% of Nigeria's total oil output
(of around 2.2 million barrels per day), making it the
country's second largest producer behind Akwa Ibom
State. Around 80% of the Delta State's oil reserves are
onshore, while 20% are offshore. As such, the bulk of
the State's revenue is derived from the oil and gas sector.
Delta's topography and climate make it ideal for many
types of agriculture. Cassava, yam and maize are the
main food crops produced, while oil palm and rubber are
the predominant cash crops. Although growth in the
Delta economy has been dominated by nonagricultural
sectors, as much as 70% of the population make a living
from agriculture (90% of whom are engaged in
subsistence farming, with the remaining 10% engaged in
large-scale commercial farming activities). Although the
government is encouraging growth and modernisation in
this sector, through subsidies and various incentive
programs, the planned agric spending in 2005 at N1.4bn
was just 2% of the N69bn capital expenditure budgeted
for the period."

"The local economy is extremely dependent on oil
production, with the State's share of statutory allocated
revenue largely derived from oil revenue accrued to the
Federal Government. In addition, given the fact that only
around 11 % of revenue is generated internally,
Delta State's dependence on its statutory allocation is of
concern. As such, if oil production were disrupted,
especially for extended periods, this could have a negative
impact on the State's underlying revenue base."

(GLOBAL CREDIT RATING CO. - Delta State)

http://www.deltastate.gov.ng/GCR%20for%20Delta%20State.pdf


So if Delta is getting many times more money (which is fine, as that is as it should be), obviously they're going to develop faster than some other states. It's this simple. I don't see where all this Bini or Anioma ethnic crap comes into this.

I want to believe you have access to the internet.Just go and read the UNDP report on the 9 Niger Delta states.The report is lenghty and come here to make comparisons between Aniomaland and Benin kingdom.Like I said and I am contradicting myself, Benin land apart from the capital is very backward, this is fact.The greater percentage of the area is in darkness.For Aniomaland apart from parts of Ndokwa East the entire region even in the most remote villages have access to electricity.This is also true for the Ndoni area of Rivers State which was until 1976 was an integral part of Ndokwa East

1. "And I am contradicting myself"? Yeah, you are, you say that apart from the capital, the land is backward, but then you keep insisting the capital is backward. The hatred's got you unable to keep your rants straight.


2.  http://web.ng.undp.org/nhdr/index.shtml


I looked at the UNDP report on Nigeria.
From the article "Human Development Report
Nigeria 2008 - 2009: Achieving growth with equity" (http://web.ng.undp.org/documents/NHDR2009/NHDR_MAIN-REPORT_2008-2009.pdf)

This is what I observed in that article:


1. It claims Edo state has the sixth highest literacy rate, after Lagos, Rivers, Abia, Akwa Ibom, and Anambra,  see p. 64 & p 108

Delta is not one of the states that comes before it.


2. It claims that Edo state had the 7th highest "education index" after Lagos, Rivers, Abia, Ekiti, Ondo,  and Anambra,

Delta is not one of the states that comes before it.

3. It then goes on to say:

"There is an educational dimension to poverty in Nigeria: the higher the educational attainment, the lower the incidence of poverty. Poverty is concentrated among persons with no education and those with only primary education. The likelihood of being poor is highest when the head of household has no formal schooling. It is observed that households where the head had no schooling accounted for 48 per cent of overall poverty incidence in 2004, while households where the head had secondary education accounted for 30 per cent (Table 3.2)." p. 66


Which although generally true, is a slight oversimplification.


4, In terms of incidence of poverty, Edo state ranks eighth lowest according to their statistics, see p. 76 and p. 148.

Delta does not rank lower.



5. The oil producing states are better represented in some statistics, because of of oil money income, hence Bayelsa coming before Edo state in terms of income:


"Survey of 2006 and the NBS CWIQ of 2006 further confirm the poverty situation in the country across regions and states. It was evident from the study that a substantial proportion of Nigerians still lives on less than N20,000 a year. There is a clear evidence of high dispersion in per capita income across the 36 states of the federation as at 2007. High performers included the FCT ($10,208), Bayelsa ($5,388), Rivers ($5,210), Akwa Ibom ($3,813), Lagos ($2,554) and Delta ($2.325) while the low performing states were Taraba ($141), Kogi ($147), Anambra ($163), Bauchi ($166), Osun ($183 and Plateau ($194). Other states fell between the two groups (Figure 3.2). The oil producing states continue to dominate the high performing states, while 18 states recorded lower per capita incomes than the global standard of less than $1.25 per day." -  Human Development Report
Nigeria 2008 - 2009: Achieving growth with equity, p. 65


In addition, for GDP ranking, i's GDP per capita ranking (see. p. 18 of the summary article: "SUMMARY
Human Development Report
Nigeria 2008 - 2009
Achieving growth with equity" ) made no sense whatsoever, and the statistics seemed to be based on allocation or something different, as there were several glaring problems with its claims:

- Anambra had a GDP per capita of $163.14, lower than Ebonyi with a  GDP per capita of $ 197.68, and lower than Adamawa with a GDP per capita of $ 209.34.

- Akwa Ibom had a GDP per capita of  $ 3 813.01 , Imo had a GDP per capita of $ 412.32,

- Nassarawa had a GDP per capita of $ 1 226.65,  Ogun had a GDP per capita of $ 247.28

- Niger had a GDP per capita of $ 1 687.79,  Oyo had a GDP per capita of $ 280.29,


Clearly the GDP statistics are false and these people failed to accurately measure GDP or were intentionally given false figures by the Nigerian government.


6.  According to that report, Nassarawa and Sokoto have a higher HDI (human development index) than Edo, Ogun, and Anambra!!!!

Bayelsa's HDI is almost as high as that of Lagos and Rivers, despite constant testimony that would suggest the contrary by numerous vistors to Bayelsa, its indigenes, and even the claims of some militants.

This is more fraudulence. Only a complete fool would believe those HDI figures have any significance.

7. This is what it says in the Niger Delta Human Development Report about their HDI measure:

"The holistic human development paradigm requires several indicators to measure various
aspects of socio-economic progress and human advancement. To compute the relevant
human development indicators for the Niger Delta, four main indicators have been used:
the HDI (human development index), HPI-1 (human poverty index for developing
countries), GDI (gender-related development index) and GEM (gender empowerment
measure)."

Given the misleading and bogus HDI calculated earlier in the "achieving growth with equity" report, I won't be surprised if the HDI for the Niger Delta will be bogus and fraudulent as well.


8. There is yet more fraudulent data on table 1.22 on p. 141 and on table 1.1 on p. 139. This entire report is probably stocked full of false and arbitrary data in several places.



Next, I looked at the article "NIGER DELTA
HUMAN DEVELOPMENT
REPORT"   (http://web.ng.undp.org/publications/nigeria-delta-hdr.pdf)


This is what I observed:

1.

"Fishing and agriculture are the two major
traditional occupations of the Niger Delta
peoples. During the colonial era, forestry
was introduced as the third major economic
activity in the region. Today, agriculture,
fishing and forestry still account for about
44 per cent of employment (see chart 1.1).
All three economic activities have declined
since the ascendancy of the oil industry,
however. Rubber plantations that once
covered thousands of hectares of land in
Edo and Delta states were cleared as the
oil boom took hold. Many palm oil and
cocoa plantations were abandoned and
allowed to revert to bush. Fortunately, since
the 1990s, there have been renewed efforts
to resuscitate the agricultural sector, New rubber plantations are being established;
cocoa and oil palm farms are being
rehabilitated. Also, there is increased activity
in arable crop cultivation, particularly of
cassava for commercial purposes." - p. 25


"In the pre-colonial period and certainly all
through the colonial period, the mainstays
of the Niger Delta economy were
agriculture and fishing. A World Bank
report in 1952 and 1953 (see Alamieyesigha
2005) indicated that the Niger Delta had
tremendous agricultural potential—enough
to produce crops for itself and for export.
During this period, the production of palm
oil and kernels in much of the Niger Delta;
rubber in mostly the current Edo, Delta
and Cross River states; cocoa in Ondo and
Edo states; and timber in most states was
at a high peak, earning considerable income
for the region and Nigeria as a whole,
including through a large proportion of
foreign exchange earnings. Timber was so
important in the Niger Delta that the
African Timber and Plywood company, a
subsidiary of the United African Company,
established a large factory in Sapele to
process wood. At that time, it may have
been the largest such operation in Africa
if not the world." - p. 112




2. On p. 35, table 2.1 explicitly says:


Incidence of poverty for Edo/Delta (Bendel):

1980:  19.8
1985:  52.4
1992:  33.9


1996:  56.1


2004:  Delta: 45.35
          Edo:   33.09

So after Bendel was split (1991), what happened? (note that for 1992 and 1996, it was still calculating for the two states together as one)

It would seem the two states diverged a bit poverty wise (or maybe this was always the case, but it was not apparent because they were counted as one unit), and Edo has a lower poverty level than Delta in general, even 13 years after the Delta groups freed themselves from Bendel state.


3. On p. 45 on table 2.4 it claims Edo state has a slightly lower percent poverty level than Delta

4. On p. 45, in table 2.5 it claims Edo state has a slightly higher primary and secondary school enrollment than Delta

5. On p. 53 it claims:

'In 1996, UNDP computed the first HDI
for Nigerian states, for the year 1992. As
table 2.8 shows, the Niger Delta states of
Bendel (now Delta and Edo states), Rivers
(now Bayelsa and Rivers) and Cross
River (now Akwa Ibom and Cross River)
obtained the highest HDI scores in Nigeria,
outperforming even Lagos State. The
HDI scores were 0.631 for Bendel, 0.539
for Rivers and 0.513 for Cross River.
UNDP (1996) argued that, on the basis
of their HDI scores, these three states
"would easily have qualified in 1990 as
middle human development countries occupying
positions 79th, 91st and 96th respectively
in the World."

The relative positions of the states seem
to have been maintained in 1996, when
UNDP again calculated the index and concluded:
.A ranking of the Nigerian States
by HDI puts, for example, the Edo and
Delta States (formerly Bendel State) on the top,
with an HDI of 0.666. Were Edo
and Delta States constituted into a separate
sovereign country, their .nation. would
rank 90th in the world.relatively high
among the medium-level human development
countries,  Even now, the situation
has not changed. The main concern is the
significance of the achievement relative
to what has been accomplished in other
oil-producing regions.'

Note that this is different from the HDI calculated earlier in the "UN Human Development Report
Nigeria 2008 - 2009: Achieving growth with equity", so there was a decrease in HDI for both Edo and Delta.


6. On p. 54 on table 2.9, it claims, from 2005 statistics, that Edo has a HDI of 0.594 and Delta has a HDI of 0.615. It also claims that Edo has an "education index" of 0.602 and that Delta has an "education index" of 0.636. Note that this contradicts the "education index" calculated in the "UN Human Development Report Nigeria 2008 -2009 Achieving growth with equity" that put Edo's education index over Delta's. So if we were even to believe this statistic had any significance, it would be claiming that Edo overtook Delta in education between 2005 and 2008.

7. It claims (on p. 57):


"The human poverty index, compared with
the HDI, focuses on more fundamental
parameters of human development.
Rather than using gross measures such as
life expectancy and GDP per capita, the
HPI-1 addresses issues of survivorship,
access to improved water supply and the
nutritional level of children under the age
of five. Table 2.12 shows the average HPI-
1 for the Niger Delta states is 28.8 per
cent for 2005, compared with 38.8 per
cent for Nigeria as a whole. This again
means that the Niger Delta states have outperformed
the rest of the country. But
the Niger Delta average HPI-1 of 28.8
per cent is far worse than that of Saudi
Arabia (14.9 per cent), Indonesia (17.8 per
cent) or Venezuela (8.8 per cent).
The best performing states in the Niger
Delta are Delta at 22.4 per cent and Edo
at 23.4 per cent. The worst performers
are Ondo at 35.4 per cent and Bayelsa at
33.8 per cent. If Delta, the best performing
state, were to be a nation, its world
ranking on the HPI-1 would have been
43rd, placing it high among the medium ranking
developing countries."


So apparently according to their little statistic Edo is only 1% behind Delta in HPI and is one of the best performing states in the Niger Delta for that particular statistic. Yet you were insinuating something about Edo being particularly backward by Nigeria's standards!

8. It claims:

"Except for Abia, Edo and Ondo states, the
unemployment rate is much higher in the
region than the national average.1 Similarly,
the underemployment rate is generally
higher, except in Edo, Bayelsa and Abia
states." - p. 130

But in the footnote at the bottom it notes:

"1 The figures for Edo State in the table cannot be realistically interpreted as a reflection of the rate of unemployment. For example,
a survey from the Federal Office of Statistics that defined the labour force age bracket as 15-70 years (rather than the 15-64 years used
by the International Labour Organization) reports a composite unemployment rate of 14.3 per cent, an urban rate of 24 per cent and
a rural of 11.8 per cent for Edo State. For Cross River State, the figures are 16.6 per cent, 7.3 per cent and 18.3 per cent, respectively."

The figures being referred to are those in table 6.1 on p. 131.

So there is not really consistency in unemployment across Edo state, but even with that caveat, it's still not as bad as several other states in the Niger Delta, including Delta state.

9. I would advise you to look at table 6.3 on p. 133 "Sectoral Distribution of Small and Medium Enterprises Surveyed in the Niger Delta" and see how Delta and Edo state compare. The report seems to be claiming that out of all 9 states, Delta lags behind in 9th place.

10. So my conclusion from the report you referred to and your various claims is that Edo state is slightly more literate, slightly more children enrolled in primary and secondary school, has more universities, has a lower poverty incidence than Delta, but has less monetary resources and therefore could have a harder time keeping up with the pace of Delta state's infrastructural development.

11. The real import of those UN reports to me was that states in the Niger Delta, and Nigeria in general, are NOT doing well by world standards in most areas of human development. Sad to say it, but that was what really struck me from those UN reports, not anything about Edo state in particular.


12. You also didn't read really read the report yourself. Edo state does NOT come out particularly bad in the report. The only issue with Edo was HIV/AIDS, but even then report claimed that HIV/AIDS was on the decrease over time (from 1991 to 2003, see chart 4.6 on p. 99) in Edo and Edo was 5th highest in HIV/AIDS (at 4.3%) out of 9 by 2003 (Delta was 4th highest with 5%, see table 4.1 on p. 96).

You're pretty dumb for referring me to a report that does NOT portray Edo state in a particularly bad light, but instead puts it ahead of several other ND states in multiple areas, even though you were trying to use that report to insinuate that part of Edo state (the Bini areas) would necessarily be worse than part of Delta state (the Anioma areas) based on the claims of that report. No particular conclusion can be reached about Bini vs. Anioma from the claims of those UN reports, but if the question is Edo state vs. Delta state, then Edo  state compares just fine.

10)"On the people of Igbanke, the people there are so confused " ad you went on further to say "What are people going to think when they encounter somebody who actually uses Edo names ? "  Well on the issue of Igbanke people so confused I dont think it is the position of the Palace of the Oba of Benin who have claimed severally without evidence that Igbankeland  is part of his territory.It therefore has nothing to do with Igbanke people.

1.  Has it occurred to you that the Palace might have a reason for thinking the Igbanke were Edo, such as the people themselves bearing Edo names, using Edo words, etc.?

Is the Palace of the Oba of Benin an expert on Western Igbo culture to send people around to scrutinize and scan every town in an Edo area to separate those with telltale signs of being Igbo from those with signs of being Edo and then, based on the amount of either culture that they display, authorize people to designate a group as Edo or not Edo?

In Edo state, people from Usen are part Yoruba. Do you think the Palace has any doubts about whether they should be considered Edo or not? Obviously, the Palace is not engaging in some Edo purification scheme, so there would have no particular reason to scan any one town and designate any one seemingly Edo place as non-Edo based on signs of having a certain amount of non-Edo culture or language.


2,

"The Edoid
groups in Bayelsa and Rivers states are
considered largely within the Ijoid group
because of the cultural impact the latter
has had on the former"- UN Niger Delta Human Development Report, p. 22

This is from the very report you referred me to.


I have yet to hear claims from anybody that Ijaws annexed Edo groups!

Those who are the oppressed majority know where they belong and they will join their kith and kin whenver Anioma State is created.

1. Oppression?

Did you even read that link I posted about Urhonigbe? Do the Binis have an agenda to oppress the people of Urhonigbe?

You can't just assert that governmental neglect is equal to ethnic oppression because it fits your particular propaganda goals.

2. There are Igalas in Anambra, Igbos in Akwa Ibom, Ijaws in Edo state, etc. Did all of this come about because of ethnic annexation movements? Anybody with half a brain knows that not all of the states in Nigeria are perfectly homogeneous. Where is the annexation and oppression conspiracy for these other groups? Have the people of Anambra set up a timetable for when they'll excise those Igala villages from their state?


The Engenni and Apie-Atissa of Bayelsa state are apprently Edoid and not Ijoid according to page 21 of that very Niger Delta Development report that you mentioned.

The Degema of Rivers state are also apprently Edoid according to that same report.

I hear Ijaws canvassing for a new state that includes some Ijaw groups in Edo, I wonder if they'll excise those apparently Edoid groups from their states and give the land to Edo state when they're done with their land grabbing. I also wonder if every majority ethnicity state will be redrawn in Nigeria to make every state perfectly linguistically homogeneous? If this happens, then Edo would stand to GAIN a few places in Ondo, Bayelsa and Rivers (three states) so to even suggest that the Edo need to annex Igbanke or the Esan want to annex Ekpon to prevent a decrease in the territory of Edo state is preposterous. If this states are suddenly made perfectly linguistically homogenous, Edo will gain more than they will lose.


What you don't get is that all of these groups that originate from a different language group (Igala, Igbo, Ijaw, Edo) but are in states where their language group is a minority are not in those states due to a conspiracy on the part of the majority group to annex that group. I know that some Bini or Esan have been led into thinking those few Ika villages are of their people, but this entire propaganda of Anioma people about Edo oppression of Igbanke, etc. is rubbish.





         

Now on the issue of names , you can be so funny, Where did you hear that Igbanke is unique in bearing Edo names ?

Where did I say Igbanke was unique in bearing Edo names? There are other issues beyond bearing some Edo names. Do the Anioma towns that bear Anioma names use them to the extent that the Igbanke do, and even have completely Edo first and last names, as some Igbanke do?

Most Anioma towns bear Edo names because we have share dlike I noted earlier close relationship with the Benins.Its therefore wrong to isolate Igbanke.The Benin as well bear Yoruba names and we know "Eweka" was derived from "Owomika" a Yoruba word.But it has never been difficult for the Benins to project their identity.We all saw it when the Oba of Benin told the world that Oduduwa was of Edo origin and the reaction that it generated amongst the Yoruba.

1. Benin people with Yoruba names often have actual (partial) Yoruba ancestry or got those names from Yoruba religion.

2.  Anioma towns all bear Edo names to the extent that the Igbanke do?

Anioma towns all have odionweres?

These are not rhetorical questions, by the way. I don't' believe for even a minute that all of Anioma uses Edo names to the extent that the Igbanke do or that they all have odionweres and other Edo cultural practices.

3. On this "close relationship" claim, you might have misinterpreted Jacob Egharevba's attempt to euphemize Benin imperialism.

11)On the issue of Ekpon, have you ever been to the town ? Have you ever in your life interacted with Ekpon people because if you have done that, you wont post such rubbish here.Ekpon , yes lies at the cross road where the Ika(Anioma) people meet with with the Esan(Edo) people.The language used in Ekpon in those days was both Ika and Esan with her social aspect of culture leaning towards the Ika.I know this because Igbodo and Ekpon share boundaries and we farm together.But this is not the case today.Ekpon has become more Ikanized.The old Esan dialect is practically DEAD.they even bear Igbo names like Amaechi, Ifeanyi etc.Ekpon native dance is purely IGBO.This footballer Elderson Echiegile(Echiejina in Onitsha Igbo) comes from Ekpon.What does Echiegile mean in Esan ? I dey laugh, Well we are on this post to learn.

1. No I've never been to Ekpon, but tell me honestly, do Ekpon people use Igbo names more or Esan or Edo names more?

And do Esan people have any idea what Ika culture is, social aspects or otherwise, for them to be able to tell that this is a separate group, not a subgroup of their people?


The truth is that from sources that I have read, the Esan considered Ekpon to be just another branch of the Esan, so if this makes them expansionists, then they've been deceived - it DOES NOT mean that they're trying to steal Ekpon from a group whose culture they are not experts on.

They would assume the Ekpon were Esan for the exact same reasons that you can tell that they aren't Esan but rather Ika:  language and culture.

This is an interesting post on some Ekpon man (who, for whatever reason, called himself Idemudia) and because of how he had presented himself, even an Igbo man (Chxta) originally thought he was Bini! :

http://chxta..com/2009/02/death-of-language.html


2,  You say "the old Esan dialect is practically dead" (and that article written by that Ekpon guy in that link above confirms this claim) and that "Ekpon has become more Ikanized"

How on earth is it the fault of the Esan if they considered a language (the old Ekpon language that is near death) that could be considered a dialect of Esan to be evidence that these people (Ekpon) were an Esan speaking people?!!

Or were the Esan supposed to identify every cultural and linguistic aspect of Ekpon that was different as Ika (a culture and language they are not experts on), when, even within Esan, there are different dialects?!

You're just a dumbass. Any sort of propaganda that leads to some conclusion like "the Esan are oppressive expansionists" needs to be reworked immediately.


As I said before, the blame here lies squarely with the Ekpon and Igbanke, not the Esan or the Bini. All this confusion is squarely on their shoulder as Edo or Esan people are being misled because of the Ekpon and Igbanke decision to continue using several aspects of Edo culture. Claims of expansionism, annexation or oppression, are unfounded. If these people are serious about being Igbo, they will just learn Igbo (real Igbo), stop using Edo or Esan words, customs, names, etc. and nobody will confuse them with anybody else. You cannot be in limbo between two ethnic groups, culturally and then declare that you are really only based in one group.


3. This same dispute exists in Rivers state with some group that is considered by some Ijaws to be a group of Ijaw people with Igbo influence being called Igbo by Igbos, because of such enormously prevalent signs of Igbo culture and language among them. So the case of Edos identifying people with Edo culture as Edo is not unique to so called Bini or Esan expansionists. Whether those groups in Rivers state are Ijaw with Igbo influence or Igbo with Ijaw influence is a whole other issue (it seems that they're a basically a real mix, from what I've read), but either the Igbo or the Ijaw would be engaged in "annexation" attempts according to you, just because they rightly see elements of their own language and culture in those groups.

12)"Enugu unlike Benin is not one of the major financial centres of the country" So Benin is a major financial centre in Nigeria, Na waooooo.The only financial inclination Benin can boast of is remittances sent home by the large diaspora community.Enugu also enjoys that because many Igbos based in the diaspora are also based there.

Enugu is clean and nice looking because the British set it up, but there's a reason there are more bank branches in Benin than in Enugu. No matter how hard you would try to make it out to be past Benin in economic activity there is nothing to convince me that your claims are in any way valid.


You also seem to have a horrible understanding of basic economics. A city of over 1.5 million cannot survive off of remittances alone, and it cannot attract more bank branches than another city or its state have a higher GDP (do you know what GDP is?) than another state because of higher remittances without the people on the ground doing something.

This claim of yours that nothing is happening in Benin other than remittances being sent hasn't explained why any objective data (such as by Canback Daniel) or study places Benin city as having more economic activity than Enugu.

Enugu also have more factories than Benin, have you so soon forgotten abt the coal mines

The coal industry that is barely active?!

Rubber plantations were once the major thing in Benin; should I start talking about things that have subsided somewhat?

and the Oji power station, well coal is not as important as it is today

So you admit that coal is not as significant as it once was. How are you dumb enough to bring something up as bragging point, but then downplay it immediately after once you realize that it isn't?!

Regarding the Oji power station, how is that a significant industry? If you are not a completely unreedemable dumbass, you will tell me how a power station built over 40 years ago by the Eastern region government of Nigeria is a sign of significant economic activity in Enugu today.

Oji power station is just another subsidiary of NEPA/PHCN as of now, and it there is nothing to suggest that it would support this claim of greater economic activity in Enugu.

but there are such factories like ANAMCO and the

Yeah, and that's commendable. However I don't know what the size of ANAMCO's contribution to the economy of the city of Enugu is so I can't just blindly agree with this as evidence of what you claimed about Enugu in relation to Benin.

NBL brewery at Ama(the largest in Africa) in that town.

A company owned by Heineken which pledged to invest in Nigeria, recently decides to site a huge ultra modern brewery in one of the better looking, cleaner, and more organized cities in Nigeria - a feature that is only due to the British - and from that you conclude that there is necessarily more economic activity in Enugu than Benin!

Even with this brewery, Benin comes before Enugu in economic activity.

When I said Agbor is more industrialized I was refering  to relatively large privately owned firms like Apaco Foam(at Muobike Cresent) and Camellite Paint(at Yaya close).I wonder if you ahve been to those places during your "multiple visits" to Agbor.

No I've never been to those places to judge how "relatively large" these businesses actually are, but if you are claiming that this Camellite Paint and Apaco Foam are bigger than any business in Benin, you would have to prove it with supporting figures and facts, not assertions.

There are no such privately owned businesses in Benin City except fro Austin Lazarus who is yet another Anioma son doing well.

I would almost see your point here, there are a lot of Binis who choose to be based in Lagos instead of Benin (Giwa-Osagie, Osaze Osifo, Hakeem Bello-Osagie, etc.)


But I looked around and found a few a few privately owned businesses based in Benin in a matter of minutes:

Oska~JO & Partners Ltd.,- an engineering/construction company
Ativie Engineering 
Edokel Waste Management
Darotas Ltd. - an engineering company

It would be a waste of my time to search for and list every company in Benin city, but needless to say, your claim about this ice machine and plastics guy being the only privately owned business in Benin is as silly as it sounded when I first read it.

You should have thought a little harder about your claim. There would necessarily have to be economic activity in Benin for the residents to consistently buy whatever this Austin Lazarus is selling and there would have to be economic activity in Benin (besides that of the government) for this Austin Lazarus to think Benin was a good location to site one of his stores.

Then if I should compare to Asaba, that would not be fair.The SIO industries in that town was bulit in 1987 at the cost of N100 million and it is the major agro producer in the country.For your information based on the newly approved Nigeria gas master plan, Aniomaland will host a fertilizer company at Utagba Ogbe-Kwale while the largest gas processing plant in the country have been approved at Adiai-Obiofu(Ndoni).I therefore donot need to make much comparisons because it is so glaring.

1. The major agro producer in the country? I hope by agro you mean some specific agrochemical or agroindustrial product, because if you think anywhere in Delta state is the major agricultural center in Nigeria you are deceiving yourself.

"Will" host a fertilizer company? "Will" host a gas processing plant?

You're here talking about things that are not yet on the ground in Anioma, when I made no mention of the Anioma economy in the first place.

2. No rubber  processing facories in Benin? What is Ordia Rubber Industries, by the way? Does Michelin have or not have a rubber factory in Benin, Mr. Expert-on-Benin City? I just want to know if you'd know off the top of your head, since you seem to know everything about Benin City!

No palm-oil processing factories in Benin? (What is Okomu Oil Plant? What is Presco PLC?)

No asbestos processing factories in Benin? (Your own beloved UN Niger Delta Human Development Report seems to think otherwise)

No transport companies?

No timber companies?

No food/agricultural companies?

If you think I have the time to list every company in Benin City you are the dumbest person on this forum by far. It's not dependent on me to prove that there is economic activity in Benin when every objective analysis says that there is. You have to prove this crap about there being no two private companies there since this is the first mention of such a claim anywhere in real life or on the entire Internet!

13)So you have never been to Urhonigbe , the largest native Edo town yet you know such about Ekpon.Well I will advice just out of curiousity to vsit there.I can even describe the road to the place.Ok you have been to Agbor "multiple times" Just move towards the right side of the road before you get to the bridge.There leads to the College of Education in the town.Ok just take that road straight and alas in a couple of minutes after Abavo town you are in Urhonigbe.If a town of that size is so backward then I wonder what is the case of the smaller villages.Let me just give an example of my visit to the Benin village of Iguosodin Nigbemaba, That village  is so close to Benin City yet so backward.On arriving the village you are first greeted with sand flies, there is no even one single buliding you can point as modern in the entire village.On amenities forget it.this is why these villages are virtually abandoned with the youths flocking daily into Benin City.

1. Yes I have been to Agbor multiple times, but I didn't stay long. That said, I didn't see anything on the ground that was particularly impressive, probably  because I wasn't coming there from a small town or village.

And no I've never been to Urhonigbe, and honestly, wouldn't have any specific reason to go there just yet. I only even stopped at Agbor three times on my way to meet some family friends in Delta state when in Nigeria. Usually we don't even stop there, because it's not relevant to us, but when we did stop, I didn't see some real industrial city or anything. That's why I was skeptical of these claims.

2. As I said before, the situation in Urhonigbe seems to be uniquely terrible, and the people there seem to even be aware of that, but maybe you didn't even glance at that article I posted in my response.

3,  Your comment on the other village that you visited makes NO sense. You identified the very reason for the lack of development in that village - Benin City - and then wondered why it was backward right afterward! Are you this dumb?


Let's look at what this Niger Delta Development Report that you were referring to as gospel says:

"All of these
factors point to large settlements, which are
universally accepted as engines of human
and economic development (see Abumere
2000 2004; Mabogunje 1965).
Unfortunately, this phenomenon has often
fostered inequality in development between
urban and rural areas. This is especially true
in Nigeria, where many of the cities are
parasites that absorb resources without
spreading development to surrounding rural
areas. In particular, large settlements with
populations of 20,000 or more are few in
the Niger Delta (see table 1.1). Only Delta,
Rivers, Ondo, Abia and Edo States have
reasonable numbers of such settlements." - UN Niger Delta Human Development Report, p. 23



I've read where people complain about Amaechi only developing Port Harcourt but not the rest of Rivers.

I've read where people complain about Chime only developing parts of Enugu. (see spyder880's posts on this forum, for example)

I've read where people complain about Fashola only developing parts of Lagos but not the entire state. (There are multiple threads about this on this forum and there are even newspaper articles that have made such complaints.)

Yet when something similiar happens in Edo state, the only possible explanation is that the people are Edo!

14)"Good for you'' Seriously I claim it with all happiness, Dont expect me to be insulted by those remarks of yours.ANIOMA PEOPLE ARE ACHIEVERS, Dont be so sad my dear, it will take perhaps more than a generation for the Benin to smell that extent of achievement.The reason is not far fetched.Anioma people embraced education very early and we still maintain that lead.Our St Thomas College Ibusa founded in 1928 is the oldest in the Midwest and it produced many teachers that were dispatch across the Midwest region.This is compared to Edo College Benin City founded in 1937.I like the remark "Good for me" because I worked hard to earn it.On the insult "rabid animal" I will just take it as an expression of your frustration.No group and I would not want to be contracdicted have not produced eminent personalities, The point is many and in what capacity ? List them I will give you at least 10 Anioma names in return.I will advice you to engage more with those who are older to you perhaps your grand father who was a palace chief , if he is still alive, I think he will educate better.

1. I don't know how you misinterpreted "good for you" as an insult, but the fact that you did only shows that you are the rabid animal I claimed you are. I meant that in earnest, but somehow you construed it as mockery.


2. This college at Ibusa that you are referring to actually seems to have been started by white Catholic missionaries (from all available information), while the school at Benin city seems to have been founded by the colonial government due to the initiate of Binis who realized without anyone's help that they needed to educate themselves. It would then seem that your Catholic connections helped you more than you helped yourselves.


That said, I am aware that there was more than a 9 year educational gap between the Anioma and the Edo, so I'm not denying that Anioma had an educational leg up on Benin since colonial times. The issue of whether Anioma people are or aren't achievers is not relevant to anything that I have said anywhere on this thread, but your constant need  to bring it up or to engage in this bragging contest, shows that no, everything is not alright with you, and it also shows that you really don't have the common sense that people do not care for those that feel the need to put down others with no provocation.

15)Benins ae tribalistic no doubt.I only made that point on Prof Nwanze just to see your reaction and not suprisingly , you fell for it. I wonder what I will call you MUMU or what, Anioma has produced VCs and Benins is producing theirs what is the big deal, this is the point, Let me repeat again your people are tribalistic.If it is not Anglican Bishop, it is UNIBEN VC and now the Archbishop of the Catholic diocese of Benin City even when the Benins have never produced a bishop of the Catholic Church.Perhaps it is in the thinking of these people protecting the "interests of the Benin people" to demand for a Catholic overnight.They evn went to court fooling themselves in the process,

1. The Binis are tribalistic, but they elected an Anioma man to run on the platform of an Edo political party in the 50s, when they didn't have to.

2. The Binis are tribalistic, but they continuously made no fuss about never having a VC at an institution (UNIBEN) that they contributed to founding until it became clear that they were not being considered, merely for being Bini, despite the fact that other groups were considered specifically because of their ethnicity?

3. Some Igbos come to dominate a church that they did not found and then demand that it become an only Igbo speaking church, but somehow you didn't give a speech about the glaring tribalism in that? If you can dwell on this Catholic bishop stuff, which I still doubt that the most Binis really care about, why haven't you said anything about those clowns who demanded that the church's services should be exclusively in Igbo?


4.  You did not even understand why I had so much contempt for this idiotic mention of Emmanuel Nwanze as some sort of bragging point of Anioma over Bini. The problem with your comment about Nwanze was that it showed that you were every bit as provincial and bigoted as I said you were because instead of stepping back and looking at the situation honestly, you saw an Anioma name and went on to make dumb insinuations.

Let us look at this issue again:

a) Emmanuel U. Emovon (chemistry professor) was VC of a university (University of Jos) by 1978. (Was there an Anioma man who was VC of a Nigerian university at or before that time, by the way?  Just wondering.) Did the Binis start bragging about how many of the groups in Nigeria that they had beaten to produce a VC of a federal university?

b) The man who was passed over for Dr. Emmanuel Nwanze when Nwanze was appointed -  Dr. Anthony U. Osagie, a faculty member since the very beginning of the university, was just as academically accomplished as Dr. Nwanze,  so it was not as if Dr. Nwanze was chosen first based on the inability of the Binis to produce anybody who met some specific academic criterion or criteria prior to Professor Oshodin.

c) Professor Tiamiyu Bello-Osagie (Hakeem Bello-Osagie's father), the most senior academic at Uniben at the time, was passed over as VC in 1976

d) Despite any suggestions to the contrary, after the tenure of Adamu Baikie, there was clearly ethnic zoning with respect to the position of VC:



Grace Alele-Williams     Itsekiri Delta State
Onokheroraye              Urhobo/Isoko Delta State
Abhulimen Anao           Ishan   Edo State
Nwanze                       Anioma Delta State



It would be extremely dishonest of anyone to say the position was not ethnicallly zoned within the Bendel area and to assert that only merit was involved.

It makes little sense that they would start with Tijani Yesufu (Etsako, Edo state), follow up with Adamu Baikie (from Kaduna state), but then return to ethnic zoning after initially avoiding it with the choice of  Baikie, but they did just that.  It is not only academic merit that was the deciding factor here, so please spare us that rubbish. The Binis are not dumb enough to believe that tripe.

The Binis had said nothing after everyone - Esan, Etsako, Urhobo, Itsekiri, and Anioma -  had taken their turn, and there was no grouse at first.

But there is NOTHING to suggest that without the agitation of some Binis, following the exit of Nwanze as VC, that the position would have necessarily gone to a Bini, despite the fact that the university had been going down that ethnic zoning path in the previous decades.

When the Binis finally said something, dumb people claimed it was tribalism!

How can a university be practicing ethnic zoning for decades, but then others complain when one ethnic zone asks for what's due to it?!

How can a university be practicing ethnic zoning for a position but then begin to pretend after everyone else besides the Binis has had a VC that they are doing no such thing?!

If they wanted only merit at Uniben they should have stuck with only merit from the beginning. But they didn't.

You are actually bragging about a group being designated as having the last turn and then possibly being kept away from the position (if not for the agitation) for no reason. People like you think you can just pull the wool over people's eyes -  have a federal university set up somewhere, engage in zoning, but then exclude certain groups from specific positions - and the

You are actually bragging about a group being kept out of the loop for no reason. People like you think you can just pull the wool over people's eyes - have a federal university set up somewhere but exclude certain groups from specific positions - and then, with the other side of your mouth turn around and promise that fire and brimstone will ensue if your group is kept out of certain political positions. You did not know what you were talking about and that was why I commented on your pathetic Nwanze comment.

16)To start with Jerome Agu Nwadike is not of Anioma descent and we all know that the only Igbo people left in Benin, Warri and Sapele(thousands of whom were killed ) when the war commenced in 1967 where Anioma people.So how did he see the Hausa of Lagos Street killed ?

Did I say he was Anioma? I couldn't care less where he's from. There were Biafran soldiers who invaded the Midwest that he no doubt knows or fought alongside then or later so why would he promote lies about them?!

The fact of Hausas being killed in Lagos street does NOT come from Jerome Agu Nwadike, so it's not as if his acknowledgement of that fact is what that statement is based on. I was merely pointing out that even he wasn't shameless enough to try and cover it up despite his biases.

Many people wrote many hings about the war not neccesay on what they saw but on hearsay.Some even wanted to be seen as heroes and others as villains why others would want to jsutify the killings of Igbos in Benin by fabricating stories just for "National Unity".It is like to say Ok , your people were killed sorry but (without any evidence) people from the other side were also killed so let us just forget abt the war.In that spirit I can say yes we can forget , in fact most of us have forgotten and forged ahead but the truth should be told no matter how sad or bitter it is.

People witnessed them being killed, and some people even took Hausas into their protection, as stated in John de St. Jorre's book. But their testimony is dismissible and a fabrication, but your claims about thousands being killed in Benin or about systematic annihilation are true?

17)I just saw the story on "Otu Edo" .It is true that Ekwuyasi of Ogwashi Uku contested and won under Otu Edo which was affiliated to the NCNC.The party encouraged people to contest beyond their places of origin and this was why Zik himself had contested in Lagos.Jereton Marierie contested and won elections even against the natives in Agbor and even a street was named after him in that town.The case of Otu Edo cannot be seen as special favour done by the Benins towards the Aniomas in which some of them have been so ungrateful to acknowledge.

For the umpteenth time, you are a dumbass. I never said a special favor was done toward the Anioma by having Chike Ekwuyasi elected under Otu Edo.

You don't seem to understand how a political party works. A man or woman cannot declare that they are representing a political party, without the approval of those heading the party. It does not work like that anywhere in the world, and certainly not in Nigeria. Any such action is just a lawsuit waiting to happen. An NCNC man could not just claim to be representing Otu Edo.

There is no way and no how that the Binis would fail to notice that Chike Ekwuyasi is an Igbo man and if they are as tribalistic as you claim there is no way they would let a non Edo contest on Otu Edo platform. Or was Otu Edo founded and run by the NCNC? Otu Edo was founded and run by Binis, initially to oppose ogbonism. So the question is why they were liberal enough to embrace an Igbo man as a representative of their Edo based party! This is something you won't manage to circumvent with your bizarre understanding of politics.



@ all, the spam bot got me, check the profile of PhysicsHD (rather than MHD) for my post if it does not reappear.

Ika people have always been known as IkaIgbo. They have always been identified as Igbo.
Please can you guys stop spelling Eka. It is Ika.

Andre, I know some Ika people. My aunt is actually married into an Ika family, and they pronounce it "Eka", much like how Abiriba, Alayi (Elayi), etc. pronounce theirs. That "e" strain isn't difficult to notice.

exotik:

lol, iguefi, stop saying you have moved on when it is clear you haven’t. and trust me, the ikas who do not feel "igbo" (across the niger/east) and don’t identify as such are not in the minority, they are just not vocal about it. i grew up around these people and they will be quick to tell u who they are when it is time for such issues.

Hmmm, so Ekas and Igbos are different
Thanks for the info. I guess the internet is far from reality. No wonder Agbotean was so adamant.

jason123:

Hmmm, so Ekas and Igbos are different

Don't even start this. If you want to say that Eka and Igbo are different, then you have to give a real reason why the other Igbo must be the same and different from Eka.

ChinenyeN:

Don't even start this. If you want to say that Eka and Igbo are different, then you have to give a real reason why the other Igbo must be the same and different from Eka.

Chinenye, I think it has to do with perception and affinity or togetherness. What I mean by this is, if some Ekas feel more Bini than Igbo, then they are Binis. The other Igbo groups feel more affiliated to eachother, hence, they are COLLECTIVELY Igbo.

ChinenyeN:

Andre, I know some Ika people. My aunt is actually married into an Ika family, and they pronounce it "Eka", much like how Abiriba, Alayi (Elayi), etc. pronounce theirs. That "e" strain isn't difficult to notice.

It may depend on their dialect. Agbor people say 'Ika'.

jason123:


Chinenye, I think it has to do with perception and affinity or togetherness. What I mean by this is, if some Ekas feel more Bini than Igbo, then they are Binis. The other Igbo groups feel more affiliated to eachother, hence, they are COLLECTIVELY Igbo.

There has never been a time when a significant amount of Ika people ever felt Bini. It's either Ika-Igbo or just Ika. Have you seen the arguments on this thread?

ezeagu:

It may depend on their dialect. Agbor people say 'Ika'.

There has never been a time when a significant amount of Ika people ever felt Bini. It's either Ika-Igbo or just Ika. Have you seen the arguments on this thread?

I think that is the key word. You got me there.

jason123:

Hmmm, so Ekas and Igbos are different
Thanks for the info. I guess the internet is far from reality. No wonder Agbotean was so adamant.

Don't mind Agbontaen, Ogbuefi is an Ika and a proud Igbo. Thank God, Ogbuefi, Omonuan etc are here to rewrite the crap Agbontaen has been preaching in the W.W.W.
In 2008, this identity issue reached an alarming rate that Agbor indigenes in the U.K had to carry out a survey of whom they are.
Those who agreed they were Igbo--65%.
Those who said sort of were---20%.
The remaning said no.

Why is it that the white man was able to identify Itsekri as different from Yoruba.They also identified Efik,Ibibio and Annang as different.They Identified Bini.Esan,Urhobo and Isoko as different but regarded all Igbos from Agbor to Cross river as Igbo?


A look at most pre-colonial Journals shows such things as Ngwa-Igbo,Ikwerre-Igbo,Ika-Igbo,Isuama-Igbo,Nri/Awka-Igbo and so on.

That tells a lot.If this was a mistake,why then did they not call Itsekri-Yoruba,Urhobo-EdonIsoko-EdonEsan-Edo?

Abagworo, I think it only shows that they adapted an ethnonym for the collective peoples, which those same peoples and others then perpetuated. Had the 'Igbo' stated and maintained that they weren't 'Igbo', then I think the situation would be much like Ibibio/Efik etc. and Edo, Esan, etc.

ezeagu:

It may depend on their dialect. Agbor people say 'Ika'.

Oh okay.

jason123:

Chinenye, I think it has to do with perception and affinity or togetherness. What I mean by this is, if some Ekas feel more Bini than Igbo, then they are Binis. The other Igbo groups feel more affiliated to eachother, hence, they are COLLECTIVELY Igbo.

That's no just reason.

ChinenyeN:

That's no just reason.

I think it is. Because we can also categorise the Ijebus as non-yorubas but since they feel more affiated to the Yoruba name than Ijebu, hence, they are together called Yoruba. Same can be said about Igbo. If the Ngwa man feels more affialiated to the Akwa man, collectively, they form the Igbo Nation.
About Ika or Eka, if the people feel they are Binis, then they are. If they feel they are Igbos, then they are Igbos. All this names like Yoruba, Igbo, Hausa etc are a collective names for a group of clans or individual kingdoms (as in the case of the Yorubas(Egba kingdom, Ibadan Kingdom after the civil war in Oyo etc) and Hausa (the seven kingdoms of the Hausa Nation before Usman danfodio)).

This is the way I see it. The only reason or difference with the Igbo nation and her clans is because enough time was not given for it to mature. I bet the Aros would have conquered most of the Igbo clans if time was given to them. Hence, the Igbo identity was not mature enough to be used unanimously between her clans.

When Nigeria has SNC, that will be the day we will know who is who.

Andre Uweh:

Don't mind Agbontaen, Ogbuefi is an Ika and a proud Igbo. Thank God, Ogbuefi, Omonuan etc are here to rewrite the crap Agbontaen has been preaching in the W.W.W.
In 2008, this identity issue reached an alarming rate that Agbor indigenes in the U.K had to carry out a survey of whom they are.
Those who agreed they were Igbo--65%.
Those who said sort of were---20%.
The remaning said no.

As far as 15% can say no, it means there is a ikas do not know who they really are. I am yet to see an Ika/Eka man here. Once I see one, I 'll be interested to know more and find out what is truly happening. Until then, I cannot say much, in the sense that I cannot say Ikas are on their own or with the Binis or with the Igbo.

@jason123,Ogbuefi is an Ika man in his 40s and was born during the war.He can speak for Ikas.Agbotaen is also an Ika in his 20s and has different view from Ogbuefi.The issue is more generational with the older and mid-generation having full Igbo identity while the younger ones are searching for a new identity.

I still repeat my questions on why the Europeans could tell the difference between Efik and Ibibio but could not tell that of all Igbos.They recognised the diversity of Igbos but still added Igbo to the names.Eg Isuama-Igbo,Ika-Igbo,Ikwerre-Igbo,Nri/Awka-Igbo.

The Igbo identity of today was shaped by the Biafran war.

1)Just ignore exotik, he is young and unexposed.The only Benin person I respect here is Bokohalal.Those initial verbal missiles were actually meant for Physics MHD.I will just say Bokohalal was hit is the cross fire.If he is offended, I apologise, However, let me state that history bitter or sweet must neva be denied.The primary reason Anioma people tend to point at Benins just as Abagworo noted is because of the close ties we had for some 800 years with them.
Let me restate that I have moved on.I spent my early life in Benin and till today I still have some friends of Benin stock.I therefore donot have any form of hatred towards any group for whatsoever reason.I didnt like the response of Physics MHD to Omonuan.If your neighbour says he is aggrieved and no matter how you think he must have "exxergarated" those claims.You should just shut up or better still try like Bokohalal not to insult.I am at times not an apostle of "silence is the best answer to a fool" some fools need to be thrown at them their own coins.

2)On the claim that Ika people deny that they are not Igbos, I will give a yes and no answer.We are Igbos but we do want those things that make us unique as a people to be preserved.The designation "Igbo" was imported to us by the colonial masters. Before the colonial era we had two names for ourselves the Enuani(or Eluali in Ika dialect) and Ukwuani.The Enuani are used for the upland peoples ie from Agbor to Asaba while the Ukwuani is used for the lowlanders like the people of Ndokwaland.Beyond the Niger to the East, the Enuani and Ukwuani people founded many settlements, the Enuanis founded Onitsha and Ozubulu while the Ukwuanis founded Ogbaru and Oguta.This also expains why Onitsha, Ogbaru, Ozubulu and Oguta are collectively grouped as a unique Eastern Igbo "riverine group"

From the very beginning the Enuani and Ukwuani(notice the similarity in names) have always seen themselves as kith and kin thus when the concept of Aniomaness was rooted it was more or less another stage of development at least from the perspective of identity for our people.The two names we call ourselves corresponds more or less with the Edo names Ovbi-Eka(Enuani)  and Ovbi-Ekuale(Ukwuani).The name "Eka" is actually of Edo origin and it means a farmland because our people were great farmers (till this day). We never called ourselves Ika originally.The Enuani people of what is now defined as Ikaland pronounce it "Ika" not the Edo "Eka", In pronounciation we pronounce the borrowed Edo words an "I" to replace the Edoid "E" thus the Enuani pronounce Ika(Eka), Isama( Esama) , Ihondor(Ehondor), and so on.

Those who say they are not Ikas tend to over-stress those cultural and dialectical differences.The fact is that we are all Enuanis even up to Onitsha.The concept of Ika which some of them tend to promote as if the identity itself is based on antiquity is not more 120 years in usage.The colonial rulers merely  adopted the Edo name and definition to describe the entire area even up to Asaba.In the same light , the Europeans used our name for the Esan people "Ishan" to define their own division.

Ika people cannot pull out and say they are not Igbos.The fact that they are Enuanis and Aniomas settles that and just like Exotik has noted they will tell World where they belong when the time is right.I bet anyone the Ika man will always go along with other Enuani groups like the Aniocha so let Exotik keeping dreaming.I wish him goodluck.

jason123:

I think it is. Because we can also categorise the Ijebus as non-yorubas but since they feel more affiated to the Yoruba name than Ijebu, hence, they are together called Yoruba. Same can be said about Igbo. If the Ngwa man feels more affialiated to the [b]Akwa [/b]man, collectively, they form the Igbo Nation.

Akwa as in Akwa Ibom?

jason123:

This is the way I see it. The only reason or difference with the Igbo nation and her clans is because enough time was not given for it to mature. I bet the Aros would have conquered most of the Igbo clans if time was given to them. Hence, the Igbo identity was not mature enough to be used unanimously between her clans.

First of all, Aro couldn't conquer one clan, the whole of their confederacy. There's no reason to expect them to have eventually conquered the 'Igbo'. In fact, they would have never been able to, even if they tried. Secondly, it is also unlikely that Igbo identity would come as far as it has now, were it not for Europeans.

@jason123,Ogbuefi is an Ika man in his 40s and was born during the war.He can speak for Ikas.Agbotaen is also an Ika in his 20s and has different view from Ogbuefi.The issue is more generational with the older and mid-generation having full Igbo identity while the younger ones are searching for a new identity.

I still repeat my questions on why the Europeans could tell the difference between Efik and Ibibio but could not tell that of all Igbos.They recognised the diversity of Igbos but still added Igbo to the names.Eg Isuama-Igbo,Ika-Igbo,Ikwerre-Igbo,Nri/Awka-Igbo.

The Igbo identity of today was shaped by the Biafran war.

@ the ape called Ogbuefi 1


You're full of s[i]h[/i]it. Don't come here with your glaring hatred and then out of the other side of your mouth keep spewing nonsense about not having any hatred. I responded to all of that garbage that you gave as a response after I saw it in your profile, but the deranged spam bot blocked my post under the moniker "PhysicsHD" and "PhysicsRND" just as it blocked your posts from appearing. I have a response for every single one of your 26 points and the ones after those as well which I will post once this spam blocker regains its sanity. Don't think for even a second that I'll let the idiocy and bigotry that you displayed in every post in this thread slide. Your bizarre interpretation of bokohalal's statements only further demonstrates your stupidity. Anyone with half a brain can tell that he is no less disgusted at your comments and your derangement than me or exotik.

1)I dont think Omojie is in his 20s , we are probably within the same age bracket.But we have very different views on how an Ika man should be defined.The claim tht Ika is distinct and unique people from other Anioma(Western Igbo) is a recent development.I tend to be conservative in my definition of peoples across the country.The claim that Ika is an ethnic group is just rubbish.Let me take it this way, many Esan people think Esan is an ethnic group distinct from the Benin and give whatever reasons they can gather  to justify such claims.Omojie is thinking from tghat perspective and this is why I say he should be ignored.Noise like the one he is makig have alays been made after the civil but when it comes to making serious judgement or taking position as it relates to our people , these noise makers melt away.I have always challenge Omojie tha the concept of Enuani-Ukwuani and now Anioma have for centuries been Igbo based and as such there cannot be room to make claims of a minority but he wants a revolution.He is free to continue with his noise but it will be short-lived just wait and see.

2)For the Itsekiris(Jekri) and Ibibio/Annang/Efik issue, I think those definition are older and have always been well defined hence it was no problem from the earliest beginning for the colonialists to cement those divisions.The Efiks have always seen themselves as a superior ethnic stock and it would be difficult to call themselves Ibibio no matter how close they are.The Annangs who are actually an Ibibio group have grown to a size they can see themselves as a completely distinct people with their own "language" But it should be noted wthin the Ibibio as presently defined there are some groups which would have evolved into distinct peoples.Good examples are the Enyong of the Itu area and the Eket-Ibeno peoples of the coastal areas who ae today classified as IBIBIOS unlike the Annang and Efiks eventhough their dialect might even be more divergent.The only group from my little study of the languages of the area that deserves the title of a distinct ethnic group would be the ORON cluster.
For the Itsekiri, the kingdom have always been a well defined unit after its foundation in 1480 unlike Ika which was adopted by the colonialists and natives of the area just in the 1890s.They have always been relating with the Europeans , you can see it from their dress pattern yet the dialect is similar to Ikale while like Owo it had shared a strong connection to the ancient Benin Empire.It is because of this European relationship that will make them to consider them as a distinct people.The contemporary Itsekiri people however donot see themselves as being so distinct from the Yoruba.

3)On Olaudah Equiano, He was an Igbo no doubt but debate have always been made on where exactly in Igboland.The Anioma people tend to see him as one of their own from the description of where he came from; ESSAKA in the EBOE country.To us we tend to believe that Essaka is Ashaka(pronounced at times as ESHAKA till today ) while Eboe refers to Aboh( often pronounced EBOH  till today ) which the people of the area tend to define themselves.This area was notorious famous for slave trade and this is the reason the area is sparsely populated till today.The slaves captured from the entire Aniomaland and beyond even up to Igala lands where sold via the Ijwa kingdom of Brass where Aboh maintained a slave outpost.We also believe that his constant reference to the Benin kingdom could only have emanated from a man who originated from an area where the sphere of Edo influence was felt.But of recent Catherine Acholonu did her own research and thinks he may have originated from Isseke in the Ihiala area of the present Anambra State.It is a matter of how you see the points raised by the two sides.


4)I think the Igbo can be  defined according to four groups namely
a)the Northern Igbo comprising of Anambra, Enugu as well as the Ideato area of Imo state
b)the Southern Igbo coverng the present Imo, and  Abia  states ,as well as  Ikwerre, Ndoki and Etche peoples of Rivers state as well as Ihiala people of Anambra state
c)the Northeastern Igbo or Ebonyi state
d)the Western Igbo comprising of the Anioma people, the Egbema, Ogba , Oguta, Ndoni and Ekpeye peoples of Imo and Rivers State, as well as the Onitsha and Ogbaru peoples of Anambra state.

Physcs MHD ride it on I am waiting.From your statement you reason like a slave , so full of bitterness of your pathetic life.You think you are a match for me, Hmmm them neva born u.I am waiting. FOOL

@the lemur called Physics MHD, at least we can start it by sending less voluminous posts, Hahaha, this Edo born idiot and descendaant of a country named after a slave thinks he is a match, You neva sabi.Exotik is even smarte than you to realise that I spent muc of my life in Benin , Nothing I no know abt una, You are finished as far as the nairaland is concerned.Na you go run, Goat !

PhysicsHD:

@ the ape called Ogbuefi 1


You're full of s[i]h[/i]it. Don't come here with your glaring hatred and then out of the other side of your mouth keep spewing nonsense about not having any hatred. I responded to all of that garbage that you gave as a response after I saw it in your profile, but the deranged spam bot blocked my post under the moniker "PhysicsHD" and "PhysicsRND" just as it blocked your posts from appearing. I have a response for every single one of your 26 points and the ones after those as well which I will post once this spam blocker regains its sanity. Don't think for even a second that I'll let the idiocy and bigotry that you displayed in every post in this thread slide. Your bizarre interpretation of bokohalal's statements only further demonstrates your stupidity. Anyone with half a brain can tell that he is no less disgusted at your comments and your derangement than me or exotik.

Butt munching aszhole, insulting Ogbuefi in this thread shows that you are a bloody sniking ideeot. Why not marshall out your points without insulting him, duckshitt. Does it mean your parents did not train you to be respectful. Quit insulting posters here and buzz the shitt, eediot.

lol @ this clown. Keep yapping about what you don't know. You keep exposing your stupidity.


There were different groups of servants and officials attached with the court of different chiefs and royalty and the servant called Edo who saved Oba Ewuare's life in the house of Chief Ogiefa was not a slave. Next I'll hear that every servant at the Benin palace or the palace of every chief was a slave even when there is an enormous body of written documentation to the contrary.



"The men standing in front of the
building include two armed
soldiers, no doubt[b] palace servants
who also formed part of the king’s
army[/b]. The young men next to
them would be pages, possibly the
sons of provincial chiefs sent to
serve the king. They were only
allowed to dress in the kind of
clothes and regalia worn by other
palace officials when they were
fully initiated as adults."

-  www.britishmuseum.org/PDF/british_museum_benin_art.pdf+page+of+oba+benin&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiW7SgsFFn-VhFfvBux5fy4rxCU58OrguPpgelOgL7snFGBDIPNOXQhCo6Z84_N9z-mfb2xvSelXBMbkgkEhs8_UpVZkkWULwXNAPAL_ZY7ZOZBT19DPHXT8jh1X04p5dKtiS7F&sig=AHIEtbSzdRMjdsdEt0Jg3gTVV1y0uVhTSA">Benin: an African kingdom, The British Museum

More like warrior or son of a chief!

One would think you would get tired of exposing your stupidity and ignorance.  


The annoying spam bot waits several days to redisplay particularly long posts, so you can just read my response in my profile (PhysicsHD) and that on my other moniker, PhysicsRND for when I was banned.

Ngodigha:

Butt munching aszhole, insulting Ogbuefi in this thread shows that you are a bloody sniking ideeot. Why not marshall out your points without insulting him, duckshitt. Does it mean your parents did not train you to be respectful. Quit insulting posters here and buzz the shitt, eediot.

@ Andrew Uweh aka Ngodigha

You are being completely hypocritical here and you know it.

When people have said things nowhere near as bad about your group (Igbos) than what Ogbuefi said about my own, you've gone on the offensive with much more vulgarity than anything I have posted in this thread. I won't respond further to this character/alias of yours (Ngodigha) because it's a waste of time.

@Muskrat, Physics MHD tranformed into Physics HD, The Story from Jacob Egharevbathe late Obakhavbaye of Benin in his famous book "Short History of Benin" described Edo as a slave of Oba Ewuare, Brng more points FOOL !