@ Jason

Just delete your post because I've responded to him.

Obiagu1:

@ Jason

Just delete your post because I've responded to him.

Sorry, I just saw your reply!

Btw guys, why is Eboe replaced by Igbo? Why not call all Igbos Eboes? ( Just curious)

If Bonny claims Ngwa, then it is a no rocket science that it is Igbo. Can an Addis Ababa man claim Ethiopian and not African?.

jason123:

Btw guys, why is Eboe replaced by Igbo? Why not call all Igbos Eboes? ( Just curious)

Eboe was how the English could write what we told them we are. "E" in English and "I" in Igbo are pronounced the same but the English do not have "gb" and "oe" is pronounced the same as the "o" in Igbo.

Weak argument, Obiagu. Europeans called ALL of the southeast 'Eboe', regardless of what they actually were. So you can't say that they got that name from the locals, unless you are now asserting that ALL of SE is actually 'Eboe'. Even more so, when traditions were finally collected, the people of Bonny said 'Ngwa'. The identity across 'Igbo' was not all the same (i.e. was not all 'Igbo').

jason123:

Btw guys, why is Eboe replaced by Igbo? Why not call all Igbos Eboes? ( Just curious)

Those early writers were not Igbo and those who were Igbo were educated in the pattern of the whitemen.
Now the destiny of Ndigbo is in its hand so they have come up to correct the wrong acts.
Igbo as against Iboe or Ibo.
Ndigbo as against Ibos or Igbos.

ChinenyeN:

Weak argument, Obiagu. Europeans called ALL of the southeast 'Eboe', regardless of what they actually were. So you can't say that they got that name from the locals, unless you are now asserting that ALL of SE is actually 'Eboe'. Even more so, when traditions were finally collected, the people of Bonny said 'Ngwa'. The identity across 'Igbo' was not all the same (i.e. was not all 'Igbo').

If that sounds good to you. I really don't want to argue this topic with you.

I actually don't think we're arguing, Obiagu. I was only just letting that the 'Eboe' thing was not correct.

ChinenyeN:

I actually don't think we're arguing, Obiagu. I was only just letting that the 'Eboe' thing was not correct.

The Igbo identity was not 100% accepted in the whole Igbo communities but many identified as Igbo and the spread was all over Igboland and not localized. If it was localised, then you can claim only a group or clan identified as Igbo but many clans have Igbo as the name of their towns and identified as Igbo.

In some cases, "A"  town calls "B" nwaIgbo but the same "B" calls "C" nwaIgbo. It was a very confusing situation in some areas.

Obiagu1:

If that sounds good to you. I really don't want to argue this topic with you.

My brother, I do not blame you at all. I know how it feels.

No, you misunderstand. I'm not so much talking about communities and 'Igbo' identity. That's a separate though connected topic. I was only touching on what you said about Europeans calling groups 'Eboe' and how it cannot be used to support your assertion of an early, widespread 'Igbo' identity.

ChinenyeN:

Weak argument, Obiagu. Europeans called ALL of the southeast 'Eboe', regardless of what they actually were. So you can't say that they got that name from the locals, unless you are now asserting that ALL of SE is actually 'Eboe'. Even more so, when traditions were finally collected, the people of Bonny said 'Ngwa'. The identity across 'Igbo' was not all the same (i.e. was not all 'Igbo').   

Not all of the east was labelled under 'Eboe' by Europeans. Among the different groups they identified were the Jaws, Calabaries, Mokos, Brass and Bonny, then there were individual towns. Onicha was known as 'Eboe Town' for a while.

Who did the people of Bonny say 'Ngwa' to? Was this the first time explaining their identity?

ezeagu:

Not all of the east was labelled under 'Eboe' by Europeans. Among the different groups they identified were the Jaws, Calabaries, Mokos, Brass and Bonny, then there were individual towns. Onicha was known as 'Eboe Town' for a while.

I thought these ethnonyms only became known to Europeans later on during the slave trade (17th/18th centuries), and even then they still misapplied many of those ethnonyms, showing that for the most part, they had no idea which groups exactly they were talking about. It wasn't until the mid/late 18th century that European application of those ethnonyms began to be correct (or by that I mean, began lining up more like how we use them nowadays).

ezeagu:

Who did the people of Bonny say 'Ngwa' to? Was this the first time explaining their identity?

Early European visitors made speculations based on their observations, giving 'descriptive sketches' of the various peoples in the area, and it wasn't until around the turn of the 20th century that the actual lives and accounts of natives were document. Charles De Cardi was the first one to seriously document such, but his focus was primarily on customs, livelihood and current events (of that time). Arthur Leonard though, is the first one who documented the actual traditions, and for Bonny, he documented two tradition of origin. He justly dismissed one and maintained the other, in which the elders identified specifically with Ngwa. He writes it as such, "One tradition of the elders is that the Ibani are derived from the Ngwa section of the Ibo race". The 'section of the Ibo race' bit though, is likely his doing, since at that time the use of 'Ibo' as we now understand it was particularly limited to Missionaries and Colonials/Europeans.

Andre Uweh:

If Bonny claims Ngwa, then it is a no rocket science that it is Igbo. Can an Addis Ababa man claim Ethiopian and not African?.

Andre, have you read this: http://www.scribd.com/doc/55977018/Bonny-Origins

@abagoro:

which one is im fvcking up? i chose to say bini instead of edo. so if i say esan and igbanke are dialects of edo? correct. but if i say esan and igbanke are dialects of bini? wrong? so how is bini different from edo? in case u don't know bini and edo is same thing. just becos the binis had two identities they identified with does not make them different. the empire was called bini, bendel was a combination of bini/delta not edo/delta. the present edo state could have been easily called bini state so won't that have made every dialect spoken in state binis just like they are called edos today? i think the binis opted to call the state edo so that groups like esan or igbanke can have their own identity, all that still shows the liberal nature of the binis yet we and our oba(s) are the ones who are labelled as 'high-handed'

Obiagu1:

The Igbo identity was not 100% accepted in the whole Igbo communities but many identified as Igbo and the spread was all over Igboland and not localized. If it was localised, then you can claim only a group or clan identified as Igbo but many clans have Igbo as the name of their towns and identified as Igbo.

In some cases, "A"  town calls "B" nwaIgbo but the same "B" calls "C" nwaIgbo. It was a very confusing situation in some areas.

You guys need to stop assumptions.Go home and make enquiries from your people.The Europeans often used the term "Ibo Country" rather than tribe.This was so because everyone kept denying being the Igbo proper.The Igbo proper are actually the Isu and Nri groups of which Obiagu1 and co originate from.They bear Igbo as name and have communities named Igbo like Amaigbo and Igbouku.The Delta Igbos are mostly of Nri and Isu origin and identified them(Nri/Isu) as Igbo even prior to the coming of Europeans.

exotik:

@abagoro:

which one is im fvcking up? i chose to say bini instead of edo. so if i say esan and igbanke are dialects of edo? correct. but if i say esan and igbanke are dialects of bini? wrong? so how is bini different from edo? in case u don't know bini and edo is same thing. just becos the binis had two identities they identified with does not make them different. the empire was called bini, bendel was a combination of bini/delta not edo/delta. the present edo state could have been easily called bini state so won't that have made every dialect spoken in state binis just like they are called edos today? i think the binis opted to call the state edo so that groups like esan or igbanke can have their own identity, all that still shows the liberal nature of the binis yet we and our oba(s) are the ones who are labelled as 'high-handed'

The truth is that I am not from Edo and hence has little authority to make a very solid comment but I wrote based on what Historians recorded and what Esan and Etsako friends of mine feel about Bini.Naming a State based on history of a city should ordinarily not be an issue.Examples are Kaduna,Oyo,Lagos,Enugu,Katsina etc, The truth is that Esan and Etsako will reject Bini as their State name not because it is a bad idea but because they will feel dominated by the Bini.The name Edo gives room for everyone.Bini is a branch of Edo just like Esan.

@abagoro:

they don't want to feel dominated by binis and the binis allowed room for it. it seems u just agreed with me on the liberal nature of the binis yet we and our oba(s) are the "high-handed" people.
im waiting for all the anioma and igbo people to pack and leave us alone and see if benin won't survive. cos they are the most non-indigenous people i see in benin who settle in very easily yet they are the ones who label us tribalistic. benin is not the capital of any ndi'igbo state and won't be the capital of anioma state so i don't really see what still connects them to benin that they feel the need to be here.

anyway, it is good they didn't name the state after bini, cos the state would have been called the corrupted european name "benin" and by then im sure that's what some fools in the benin state would have capitalised on for their distinction,

and a deluded "igbanke" who thinks is something other that what he is would have said: we are "benins" not "binis"

as if bini and benin are not the same thing, haha

and oh please, stop the nonsense. bini is not a branch of edo just like esan. bini is edo and edo is bini. in bini language there is only oviedo no ovibini.

infact binis often joke that a badly spoken bini is what is regarded as esan. so esan is like a pidgin bini and so are a lot of all these other dialects in edo state and even delta state. when i was in ogwashi uku. i could understand a few of what they were saying even though it was heavily laced with igbo.

exotik:

and oh please, stop the nonsense. bini is not a branch of edo just like esan. bini is edo and edo is bini. in bini language there is only oviedo no ovibini.

infact binis often joke that a badly spoken bini is what is regarded as esan. so esan is like a pidgin bini and so are a lot of all these other dialects in edo state and even delta state. when i was in ogwashi uku. i could understand a few of what they were saying even though it was heavily laced with igbo.

@bolded.You are quite correct but those other Edoid speaking people often refer to Bini as different.The Igbo situation is quite different from Edo situation because,there is no recorded history of Ika language or Isuama language in any pre-colonial records.They were referred to as either dialect or Branch.However Urhobo,Isoko,Esan and other Edoid groups were seen as distinct Languages and not dialects.

Here is a link of language classification

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/61232/Benue-Congo-languages/214892/Edoid

The 21 Edoid languages are spoken in southern Nigeria, primarily in Bendel state but in neighbouring states as well. The Edoid family can be divided into four main groups of languages. Delta-Edoid consists of three languages; southwestern Edoid, five languages, the largest of which is Urhobo (400,000); north-central Edoid, six languages, of which the principal one is Edo (1,000,000 speakers); and northwestern Edoid, seven languages.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/707550/Igboid-languages


Encyclopædia Britannica
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Igboid languages, a language cluster that constitutes a subbranch of the Benue-Congo branch of the Niger-Congo language family. There are nearly 20 million speakers of Igboid languages in southeastern Nigeria. In the early years of the 20th century an attempt to develop an artificial form of Igbo called Union-Igbo, based on four Igbo dialects, was not successful. Later a standard literary form developed based on the Owerri and Umuahia dialects. There is a growing body of literature in Igbo, and such Igbo writers as Chinua Achebe, Cyprian Ekwensi, and Christopher Okigbo are internationally known.

iguefi, no matter how u twist it, igbanke is not anioma, igbanke is edo. they are more "edo" than "igbo". u may get ur wish and they will become part of anioma, but that does not make them any different from who they are, they will just be edo speaking people in anioma state.

@jason

@exotik
Did you just say there is nothing like Yoruba Then how do we explain the Oyo empire + Dahomey empire that was conquered by the Yorubas? I am waiting!!!

was there ever a "yoruba" empire oyo empire? yes. yoruba empire? no.

did the oyos ever called themselves "yoruba"?? i am waiting!

exotik:

iguefi, no matter how u twist it, igbanke is not anioma, igbanke is edo. they are more "edo" than "igbo". u may get your wish and they will become part of anioma, but that does not make them any different from who they are, they will just be edo speaking people in anioma state.

Donkey raping shitt-eater, you have been so idiotic in this thread by going from insulting Ogbuefi1 to Abagoro. Asz clown, why can't you make your opinion known without the use of abusive words. Mother ffucking biatch, Igbanke people are Igbo people in Edo state and they have been agitating to be merged with their kit and kins in Anioma. So, take it or leave it, asz humper.

Ngodigha:

Donkey despoiling shitt-eater, you have been so idiotic in this thread by going from insulting Ogbuefi1 to Abagoro. Asz clown, why can't you make your opinion known without the use of abusive words. Mother ffucking biatch, Igbanke people are Igbo people in Edo state and they have been agitating to be merged with their kit and kins in Anioma. So, take it or leave it, asz humper.

lol, look at another . the only person ive insulted on this thread is iguefi and honeslty speaking he is a big fool. but keep talking. i find u internet fools amusing.

@ Obiagu1

Igbo identity/language contemporary?

of course, lots of "igbos" do not speak the same language and cant understand each other. ngwa man does not call himself igbo, he says im ngwa and speaks ngwa. so where did the "ïgbo" language/identity come from? the oludara the slave?

exotik:

lol, look at another . the only person ive insulted on this thread is iguefi and honeslty speaking he is a big fool. but keep talking. i find u internet fools amusing.

Wart hog, stop running your smelly mouth more, why do you have to insult Ogbuefi1 when he has not insulted you, asz hole?. Or is it a crime to be Igbo and Delta?. Just respect forumites here and be civil, hoe bag.

Ngodigha:

Wart hog, stop running your smelly mouth more, why do you have to insult Ogbuefi1 when he has not insulted you, asz hole?. Or is it a crime to be Igbo and Delta?. Just respect forumites here and be civil, hoe bag.

and who are you? his lawyer?

and who are you to tell me how to conduct myself on the internet? u think too much of yourself, so shut up!

exotik:

@ Obiagu1

of course, lots of "igbos" do not speak the same language and cant understand each other. ngwa man does not call himself igbo, he says im ngwa and speaks ngwa. so where did the "ïgbo" language/identity come from? the oludara the slave?

Asz banging sand Nigga, you are not Igbo and should shut your mouth up. Ngwa man says he is Ngwa when he is with Mbaise, Owerri, Onicha man etc. Owerri man or Afikpo man will say the same thing. But outside, no Ngwa man will say he is not Igbo but Ngwa. Tell me where that has happened. obstructionist.

by the way, can someone post a link with a list of the 300 hundred languagues in nigeria? that is the only link id be interested in clicking on not all the bullcrap circulating on this thread.