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Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by winner01(m): 11:10pm On Aug 05, 2018 |
budaatum:I think you miss the point. I wasn't referring to my God or any god. To make this clearer, I challenge you or any atheist here to provide even the smallest of evidences that any other country have democides that magnitude of atheistic countries that have ever existed. I appreciate any evidence provided. budaatum:Lol, naso. I'll create a thread on this soon, and as usual, back it with evidence. 1 Like |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by winner01(m): 11:11pm On Aug 05, 2018 |
hahn:Johnydon would answer that better. He asked the question. 1 Like |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by budaatum: 12:15am On Aug 06, 2018 |
winner01:Stop claiming one misses the point when one merely disagrees with you! I told you in the beginning that this thread was pointless since it was just another 'your god is better than everyone else's god' thread. You protested at the time, but here you are with your true colours exposed trying to engage me in such an argument! The reason I said it was pointless was that any evidence that either side provides would be called crap by the other. And trying to prove anything to a person who is willing to believe things based on their faith regardless of the evidence, is stupid. Do you know how many people died in Latin America when the Spaniards landed there? Or would you claim the Spaniards did not go to Latin America in the name of God, or were not religious? How about the many people carried away as slaves from the coast of Africa by Christians? How about the numerous purges and crusades in Europe, specifically in the name of God? How about the human sacrifices in what became Latin America? You did after all claim you didn't mean your god, so do they count towards deaths caused by religion too? Lets also add deaths in China during the periods when Taoism and Confucianism was their religion, and the deaths caused during the Arabic slave trades, they after all did have a religion; and the numerous deaths during the expansion of the Roman Empire and those between what became the Greek states. They too had religions with gods, so shall we say religion or god killed people then too? How about the numerous deaths in even Nigeria during the wars between the Muslim south and the Southern pagans, or those amongst the Yorubas, who all had religion? Do those count? Or are the numbers not big enough for you? I bet you would claim those terrorists killing people all over the world today are Muslims, and that they are killing people in the name of Allah, but you would likely point out that those who kill in the name of God are not true God followers. Go to any prison in any nation today and count how many religious people you would find in jail for murdering someone. Would you not find more people who believe in a god in prison than atheists? Even a simple record of killings of other human beings done in any country on any day of the year would have been committed by religious people if only for the fact that religious people out number those who are not religious by a significant amount. Yet you are quick to believe what religious apologetics have presented to you are deaths caused by atheists because it suits the narrative you wish to believe! Your claim that atheists nations have killed more people than religious ones is false and relies on spurious uneducated evidence. The truth is that people have instigated killings for their own selfish ends and blamed their gods or no-gods for those killings. A classical example of this exists in the Bible itself. Despite it being written that God told people to kill others, the truth is that no god told anyone anything of the sort and people have simply attempted to justify their own actions by claiming God told them to kill people. When Bush and Blair said God told them to invade Iraq, we treated them with the derision that they deserved and should treat such historical claims with the same derision that they deserve. Go read some history winner, and stop believing things you have no evidence for. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by budaatum: 12:41am On Aug 06, 2018 |
Educate yourself by going though this List of wars by death toll. Work out how many of the wars had atheists on either side. Then tell me which has religion as a reason for the wars, and the deaths. |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by budaatum: 12:58am On Aug 06, 2018 |
This is how intelligent people reason, but discount for the fact that we count better in modern times. Who Kills More, Religion or Atheism? |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by Nobody: 9:41am On Aug 06, 2018 |
budaatum:EXCELLENT! Ride on my friend, let them know that religion has course so much Holocaust in times past until now,and that true Christians have remained TOTALLY neutral! The first attribute of REAL Christianity is neutrality during clashes so if you're an atheist and you believe in neutrality during wars then you're not too far away from REAL Christianity! The ONLY difference is "MIND CONTROL" all which atheists hated with a passion,but whoever is trying to reason with another person is all the same seizing the opportunity of turning the person away from his/her former thoughts and resolutions which is tantamount to MIND CONTROL! 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by winner01(m): 4:52pm On Aug 07, 2018 |
budaatum:You missed the point and were talking about something else entirely. I'm not trying to prove my God to you, superiority or anything of sort. I'm simply trying to let you have a look at the facts. In my threads, I gave numbers, graphs and charts as well as references on democide caused by religion and democide caused by atheism. The evidences were not in favour of atheism even though atheism has had very little time in power. This is not a matter of sentiments or mere words. Give me evidence and lets see, let everyone see it. Create a thread for this and give valid evidences. I already did. I got many of my evidences from STATISTICS OF DEMOCIDE for instance to create the threads below: https://www.nairaland.com/2988881/atheism-terrorism-annihilation-quest-atheistic https://www.nairaland.com/3232176/atheist-presidents-heads-state-quick Except this, which I collated from the social media. https://www.nairaland.com/3176513/atheist-murderers-past-present-murderous budaatum:No Sir! budaatum:Proof Sir! budaatum:About 10.5 million slaves according to Wikipedia, which dwarf in comparison to the 73 million lives lost at the hands of atheist Joseph Stalin. Please note: The statistics did not say 10.5 million slaves lost their lives. Please shed more light on this in your thread and do well to let us know how and those who began the movement for the abolishment of slave trade since slavery is recorded to have been practiced throughout human history. budaatum:I know about the: Christian crusades from 1095-1272 (Democide = 1000000) Aztecs (Democide = 1000000) Albigensian crusade from 1208-1249 (Democide= 200,000) The Spanish inquisition 16th century to 18th century (Democide = 350,000) If you know any other, please bring them forward in your new thread. budaatum:The witch hunts from the 15th century to the 17th century (Democide = 100,000) as referenced in the statistics of Democide mentioned earlier. If you know any others and have specific numbers, please state them in your new thread. budaatum:I'm giving you the chance to refute my threads with your facts. I want you to try to win this argument objectively and with your evidences. This is why I lumped all religion together. So in this case, its not just Christianity vs atheism, its religion vs atheism. This should be easy for you to refute easily with evidence . budaatum:Absolutely, you can add deaths during that period. More impotantly, you must add the political, economic or religious motivations for such deaths as I did HERE to make your thread more convincing. budaatum:I don't think those will count except we want to deviate from the argument of; "Comparing atheistic democides to religious Democides" to "comparing religious to the non religious". You have a chance of refuting the former (my argument). You have absolutely zero chance if refuting the latter. This is not to say that you can't give it a try. budaatum:Maybe not. budaatum:Go to any country in the world today and count how many religious people you'll find. Except for countries that have suppressed the rights of their citizens, you are likely to find a religious majority in almost every country on earth. More religious population = More religious good people, More religious criminals. Again I ask, are you going to deviate from our argument of "comparing atheistic Democide to theistic Democide" or "comparing crimes from atheists to crimes from theists" because we both know that Albinos are less than 2% of Nigeria's population just like atheism is less than 4% of Nigeria's population. This scientifically translates normal/albino crime ratio to 9 : <1 just like the theist/atheist crime ratio will be 9 : <1. Deviating from the point. When I was struggling with agnosticism, I remember sampling (in person) some motor park touts, prostitutes, cultists and others on the subject of God. I discovered that we might have more atheists in Nigeria than recorded. But this is subject for another day. budaatum:Okay you seem to agree here that if atheists were 70% of the worlds population, then we would have more atheist criminals. This means you still miss the point. My point was on atheistic democide compared to theistic democide. I don't know how else to simplify this to you. budaatum:The motivation for democide is important. I gave evidences of quotes from atheist leaders and constititions of atheistic countries to back my point. I'd like you to create a thread and give similar evidences. budaatum:No it isn't false. Atheistic nations have really consciously killed more people than religious ones and I gave evidence in those threads. This is what is meant by democide. I gave evidence, you haven't given any counter evidence. You should create that thread. budaatum:True. But my point remains and history supports it that; Majority of atheist leaders who have found there way to the top, were extremely wild in their quest for a godless utopia often resulting to a frightening democide. I gave evidence for this in my threads. budaatum:The claims of the Israelites conquering nations in the Bible is a totally different argument that I've once addressed here. I will address it again when I choose to. budaatum:Bush and Blair would have been acting on obsolete laws and once again I'd address these narratives when I choose to. budaatum:Educate me if you will. Educate others. Prove that my evidences hold no water. Create that thread. 1 Like |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by winner01(m): 4:54pm On Aug 07, 2018 |
budaatum:I've gone through it before and I went through it again today. You'll do well to classify which were religious wars and atheist wars because Wikipedia didn't. 1 Like |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by winner01(m): 5:02pm On Aug 07, 2018 |
budaatum:Nice one by Brian Dunning who is "intelligent" only because he's atheist. But as much as I'm tempted to, I won't reply Brian Dunning. You type too many long articles and its tiring refuting obvious mistakes and sentiments. Create that thread, and reference Brian Dunning and other authors. I'll take the pain to attend to it. 1 Like |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by budaatum: 9:10pm On Aug 07, 2018 |
winner01:I'll make this one short. You might get my point. When you began this thread, I accused you of starting another "your god is better than my no-god" thread. You protested at the time, but are now asking me to compare what you call "atheistic democides" with "religious democides", a "your god is better than my no-god" argument, in the thread in which I accused you of doing exactly that! In that initial post of mine, I went on to tell you the difficulty of either side accepting the other's evidence, and you predictably called that post "crap". Now you ask me for "crap" to refute your "crap"! My response is that those who kill do not do so because of some god or no gods but because of their desire to fulfil their own selfish ends. Hitler is a classic example. He was dogmatic and set up of a personality cult with himself as the messianic figure who would save the starving Germans. He used every trick in the book, including condemning what he derisory called the "atheist communists", and whom he eradicated from Germany in his desire to acquire power. But to you, he is an atheist! And his atheism made him the idiot he is! Sam Harris, whom I am certain you would not accept as being worthy of having his opinion considered, wrote that: "The problem with fascism and communism, however, is not that they are too critical of religion; the problem is that they are too much like religions. Such regimes are dogmatic to the core and generally give rise to personality cults that are indistinguishable from cults of religious hero worship." Note that he qualified "religious hero" with the word "cult", an admission that not all "religious hero worship" is cultish! No winner, I refuse to compare diqs with you to find out which is bigger. I am an atheist. And if that makes you think I am going to kill more people than you would kill because you are a theist, then so be it. Continue to think so. I, buda, will live. But in case you care to know, my position is that when unevolved apes behave as asses, it has nothing to do with gods or the lack of gods since gods don't exist anyway. People are responsible for their own actions, even if they claim divine authority or if it is claimed for them or not. I hope this is not too long for you. |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by budaatum: 9:12pm On Aug 07, 2018 |
winner01:You wouldn't get it! You probably never would! No war is purely fought for religious reasons! And when people claim religious intention for fighting wars, it is simply a cloak they use to hide their own motives of greed! |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by hahn(m): 11:44am On Aug 08, 2018 |
winner01: How will you expect johnnydon22 to answer a question he asked you? If you don't have an answer to the question let us know and stop wasting people's time 1 Like |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by Nobody: 10:53am On Aug 18, 2018 |
hopefulLandlord: Can you create a thread on this or should I go ahead to do so |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by Nobody: 10:56am On Aug 18, 2018 |
winner01: I thought u said u were not referring to the Christian god y are u quoting the bible ? |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by hopefulLandlord: 11:24am On Aug 18, 2018 |
darkchild64:You go ahead |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by winner01(m): 12:58pm On Aug 26, 2018 |
budaatum: - My response is that those who kill do not do so because of some god or no gods but because of their desire to fulfil their own selfish ends - Keep this energy when you see atheists say that religion is the biggest cause of violence throughout human history. - I'm glad you now get the point. 2 Likes |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by winner01(m): 12:59pm On Aug 26, 2018 |
hahn:How do you expect me to answer a faulty question. I proved the fault in this thread. If you still don't get it, then I can't help you. 1 Like |
Re: Nothing Will Serve As Evidence For Gods Existence To An Atheist by budaatum: 1:44pm On Aug 26, 2018 |
winner01:I, now get the point? You funny winner. Did you not somewhere claim to have studied sociology? I expected you to at least have gotten this point from the start! It is the reason I engage with you at the level I do. Or am I wrong about your studies? Anyone who says "religion is the biggest cause of violence throughout human history" is ignorant, if they truly don't know otherwise, or stupid, if not ignorant since they know better! And the fact that some people are stupid or ignorant is no reason for one to resort to equal stupidity and ignorance in refuting their false claims. It is hardly expected from a sociologist of graduate level, and much less so if the person has gone further in the study. It's even more stupid for an atheist, who in effect says there are no gods, to go on and claim gods, that don't exist, killed anyone! The biggest cause of violence amongst humans is greed and dominance. And to whip up the support of people, sentiment is often used. Race, is a common tool, and has historically been the most used. Ethnicity is another (consider Nigerian politics, our civilian war and Rwandas, and 1930 Germany), as well as Ideology, which include religious and economic ideology (first and second world war, the subsequent Cold War, the crusades, current so called Islamic terrorism and Mao's cultural revolution.) Those who want dominance may claim some god said they should go to war, or that some god or ideology (including religion and atheism) is what the fight is against, but they just use that to deceive the poor fools who's blood would be shed in the achievement of the selfish ends, or even what they think is an altruistic motive, of their leaders. If you ever need help challenging this stupidity by atheists (or anyone), quote me and call on me to support you please. |
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