From Jenwitemi

That is the truth. There is only one of us here. There is only one entity here. The rest of us are just mere temporal expressions of that one single entity that is God. For example, there are estimated 6 billion plus humans on the face of the planet. That makes 6 billion plus temporal expressions of one God. If 10 persons are sitting in a room looking at each other, that means the one creator God looking at itself through 10 pairs of eyes. Think of the ocean and the billions of wave crests on it. God is the ocean and each one of us represent each wave crest. Where does the ocean ends and the wave crests begin? The ocean is in the crests and the crests are in the ocean.

This is very good. I would expand that and say that maybe the universe is god. It is infinite, created itself, all around us and created us. We are in it and of it and just now beginning to start to understand it, just as we are starting to understand ourselves.

However, the universe has been around billions of years before the earth was formed and will continue long after the earth is consumed by the sun. We humans have only been in existence for a mere nano second in the timescale of the whole universe. Why did god (if he exists) take so long to bring us (homo sapiens) into his creation?

Deep Sight:

Mr. Jenwitemi got it wrong because he expressly and repeatedly stated that without the recognition of God by created beings, then God does not exist. That is wrong because -

  1.If the creator DID create the created: that would remain true REGARDLESS of whether the created beings know of or recognise their creator. For crying out loud, this is so bleeding obvious as it is the case with animals - they do not regognise the concept of a transcendental creator, do they? Now would this in any way vitiate the creator's existence? It would not. So why would the non-recognition of the creator by sentient beings vitiate the creator's existence? Recall that Mr. Jenwitemi was so intrepid as to make the frankly comical assertion that the Solar System did not exist until humans began to observe it. Justify that.

  2. Being a creator is differnet from existing as a deity or spirit being. Just as surely as being a husband is different from existing as a man. I am not married: and yet i exist, do i not? ? ?

Deep Sight:

Please do not attempt tpo hide behind the perceptiveness of Sarmy. Fact is that NOWHERE has Sarmy stated that God would not exist without created beings. NOWHERE. Similarly NOWHERE has Sarmy stated that the created create the creator. NOWHERE. Sarmy makes a careful and apt distinction - he understands that the title "creator" and the title "husband' - are titles that issue from an act of creating or an act of marriage. Such acts would not be possible if the Deity did not already exist to do the act, or the man already exist to enter into the marraige.

You are confused by very simple terminology.

Finally I am certain that Sarmy would not subscribe to the frankly illiterate view that planets in the solar system or the andromeda galaxy came into existence only when men invented telescopes.

My point has been understood by the OP, so why are you still quarelling with yourself? If you have not been able to see my point till now, then you will never see it. There is no point repeating myself indefinitely.

Fhemmmy:

He could have created anything else to serve the purpose of us being in existence, So yes, we need Him

Why do we need "it"? The creator could have left us uncreated and it wouldn't have made any iota of a difference to us because we wouldn't have existed. And if God decides to pull the plug on us right now, it wouldn't make any difference to us either because we will merely no longer exist, meaning that there will no longer be anyone to talk or fret about God's existence or non-existence until new sentient beings are created. God needs us more than we need "IT". God is the one that needs to use us as expressions of itself in order to feel or experience it's own existence.

m_nwankwo:

Hi Deepsight and Sarmy. My view is that the above statements are not entirely correct. God is the creator, not because he created creations but because the living ability to create is in God. Whether or not, this ability to create is expressed (creations) or unexpressed (no creations) have no bearing to the ability to create. The ability to create is not the same thing with the expression of the creative ability that is in God. Thus God is the creator whether or not he expresses his creative ability. Since the creative ability is in God, it is also irrelevant whether his creatures percieves his existence or not. A crude analogy may suffice. Daylight did not exist because the eyes and the visual cortex can percieve it rather it exists because of the sun and its effect on the blue planet. Thus if one suddenly regains his sight and sees daylight for the first time, it does not mean that there was no daylight all the time that he is blind. Similarly if one is to go blind and cannot percieve daylight, then daylight did not cease on the day he has gone blind. This claim that all are God and God is  all is wrong in my view. People are confusing the sun and its rays. I challenge anybody who says he is a God to give me a step by step insight/DESCRIPTION on the origin and evolution of our physical universe, not to mention, the spirtitual and the divine worlds. Stay blessed.

m_nwankwo:

Hi Deepsight. Yes, what does the painting is the ability and not the expression of the ability. Thus one who has the abilty to paint or the ability to produce engineering works is an artist or an engineer. But even this remains a very crude analogy for in these earthly examples, the abilty was acquired or developed, presuppossing that at some time the one who is an artist today is not one several years ago. With respect to God, the ability has no beginning and no end for it is living in God. Stay blessed.

Hi m_nwankwo, thanks for the submission. However, God's ability to create will not have allowed him to be without creating so He had to create and the reason he created us.

Would you call a man an Actor if he cannot act when he has every opportunity to act?

A man who is not married will not be recognised as a husband but a bachelor no matter the ability in him, he needs to marry first

In this case, we are like the wife and He's like the busband, He married us by creating us and the name "God that created us" came into being

Fhemmmy:

He could have created anything else to serve the purpose of us being in existence, So yes, we need Him

Remember He created us for His pleasure, so who needed the pleasure or enjoyment or delight.

Deep Sight:

Please do not attempt tpo hide behind the perceptiveness of Sarmy. Fact is that NOWHERE has Sarmy stated that God would not exist without created beings. NOWHERE. Similarly NOWHERE has Sarmy stated that the created create the creator. NOWHERE. Sarmy makes a careful and apt distinction - he understands that the title "creator" and the title "husband' - are titles that issue from an act of creating or an act of marriage. Such acts would not be possible if the Deity did not already exist to do the act, or the man already exist to enter into the marraige.

Hi Deep Sight, please take it easy on Jenwitemi, these things are difficult to explain, personally I'm trying my best not to offend one's faith.

Yes, the one who created existed before the creating just like a man first make a move in marrying a woman but the act of the marriage makes him the husband if not he will remain a bachelor. I think this is what Jenwitemi meant (that we made each other, this does not mean we created God per se but the singular act of making us made God as well)

sarmy:

Hi m_nwankwo, thanks for the submission. However, God's ability to create will not have allowed him to be without creating so He had to create and the reason he created us.

Would you call a man an Actor if he cannot act when he has every opportunity to act?

A man who is not married will not be recognised as a husband but a bachelor no matter the ability in him, he needs to marry first

In this case, we are like the wife and He's like the busband, He married us by creating us and the name "God that created us" came into being

Thanks Sarmy. If an actor has the ability to act, then he is an actor whether or not he produces a work of art.  The main point is that such a one is capable of acting and he will produce a work of art if he wants and willnot if he does not want. Thus whether or not he produces a work of art depends on if he wills so. Now coming to God, it lies in his omnipotence to decide to create or not to create. In the radiations of God lies all that is necessary for creations to spring forth. But these radiations of God cannot take on form and become creations except God wills so. Husband and wife is a relationship and not an ability. Creation is a very big word. Awareness that God created us is not the same as God created us. Thus, until we came into existence, we are just an unformed radiation of God but it takes an act of will of God to give conformation to these unformed radiations, hence our coming into being. Besides there are several other creations of God that came into existence before us. Thus even at the time we did not exist, other higher beings existed and these higher beings were created by God. God does not need his creations but his creations is absolutely dependent on God. It is the uncounscious longing for existence in these radiations of God that GOD answered to by bringing all creations into existence. It is the incomprehensible living love that is in God that permitted the miracle of creation. Stay blessed.

m_nwankwo:

Thanks Sarmy. If an actor has the ability to act, then he is an actor whether or not he produces a work of art. 

The actor's "acting" is his created "work of art". As a result, his acting ability represents his "creative" ability.

sarmy:

Hi Deep Sight, please take it easy on Jenwitemi, these things are difficult to explain, personally I'm trying my best not to offend one's faith.

Yes, the one who created existed before the creating just like a man first make a move in marrying a woman but the act of the marriage makes him the husband if not he will remain a bachelor. I think this is what Jenwitemi meant (that we made each other, this does not mean we created God per se but the singular act of making us made God as well)

He should go easy on himself. The guy is just an argument junky. People like him love beating a dead horse for like forever.

sarmy:

Remember He created us for His pleasure, so who needed the pleasure or enjoyment or delight.

Well spotted, sarmy. No us, no pleasure for god.

Jenwitemi:

The actor's "acting" is his created "work of art". As a result, his acting ability represents his "creative" ability.

Hi Jenwitemi. Thanks for your response. My point is that an ability and an expression of an ability are not one and the same thing. An expression or conformation is an effect of an ability but not the ability itself. If for example, the novels of Chinua Achebe are destroyed, the ability to be an author remains with Chinua Achebe. He can decide to produce more novels in future and can also decide not to. I also dare say that Chinua Achebe is already an author even before he wrote his first novel "Things fall Apart". Anyone who has been blessed to engage in creative activities either in science or in arts may understand why I say that Achebe is already an author even before his first novel. Stay blessed.

m_nwankwo:

Hi Jenwitemi. Thanks for your response. My point is that an ability and an expression of an ability are not one and the same thing. An expression or conformation is an effect of an ability but not the ability itself.

your point is well taken, even though i do not agree with it. Ability and the expression of it, i don't see any separation between the two. They are one and the same unit. One cannot be without the other. An ability has to be expressed or it will not be known to exist even if it is there. Unexpressed ability remains only a mere potential until it is made manifest via expression for all to see.

m_nwankwo:

If for example, the novels of Chinua Achebe are destroyed, the ability to be an author remains with Chinua Achebe. He can decide to produce more novels in future and can also decide not to. I also dare say that Chinua Achebe is already an author even before he wrote his first novel "Things fall Apart". Anyone who has been blessed to engage in creative activities either in science or in arts may understand why I say that Achebe is already an author even before his first novel. Stay blessed.

Yes, but, you are talking about an already expressed ability that has been destroyed physically, no? But such ability will still live on in the memories of sentient beings who have enjoyed and acknowledged that very ability. Meaning that the expressed ability of Achebe would still exist and live on in people's mind long after the expressions have been physically destroyed simply because it has been expressed through those destroyed works.

Achebe's contemporaries would still know that Achebe can write after his works have been destroyed, but if his works are not recreated quickly and they are neglected for generations, his ability would seize to exist together with the expressions, because they would have been forgotten by the new generation of sentient beings, and he being still alive or dead would have made little or no difference.

Conclusion, an unexpressed ability exists only as mere potential until it is brought to reality via physical expression. A cat might possess the ability to sing and write poems, but until that ability is physically expressed and witnessed, that ability does not exist. It will remain just a mere, unprovable, unobservable potential. IMHO.

Jenwitemi:

your point is well taken, even though i do not agree with it. Ability and the expression of it, i don't see any separation between the two. They are one and the same unit. One cannot be without the other. An ability has to be expressed or it will not be known to exist even if it is there. Unexpressed ability remains only a mere potential until it is made manifest via expression for all to see.
Yes, but, you are talking about an already expressed ability that has been destroyed physically, no? But such ability will still live on in the memories of sentient beings who have enjoyed and acknowledged that very ability. Meaning that the expressed ability of Achebe would still exist and live on in people's mind long after the expressions have been physically destroyed simply because it has been expressed through those destroyed works.

Achebe's contemporaries would still know that Achebe can write after his works have been destroyed, but if his works are not recreated quickly and they are neglected for generations, his ability would seize to exist together with the expressions, because they would have been forgotten by the new generation of sentient beings, and he being still alive or dead would have made little or no difference.

Conclusion, an unexpressed ability exists only as mere potential until it is brought to reality via physical expression. A cat might possess the ability to sing and write poems, but until that ability is physically expressed and witnessed, that ability does not exist. It will remain just a mere, unprovable, unobservable potential. IMHO.

Hi again. You have to certain extent understood what I am trying to convey. I do not see the painter and his paintings, the author and his books, the inventor and his inventions as one and the same thing. The building blocks for Achebes novels have been existence, the assemblling of these building blocks to form a book has be in existence in non-physical worlds, even before Achebe present incarnation on earth. The physical book is just the physical manifestation or expression of what Achebe has formed in non physical spheres of existence. All the non-physical forms that Achebe became a medium for channeling them into physical manifestation are a consequence of the creative talent in Achebe. Thus even before Achebe was born on earth, he has already authored his novels, or to put it more correctly, he has drawn from the creative power of God to give form to his creative ability. Stay blessed.

m_nwankwo:

Thanks Sarmy. If an actor has the ability to act, then he is an actor whether or not he produces a work of art.  The main point is that such a one is capable of acting and he will produce a work of art if he wants and willnot if he does not want. Thus whether or not he produces a work of art depends on if he wills so. Now coming to God, it lies in his omnipotence to decide to create or not to create. In the radiations of God lies all that is necessary for creations to spring forth. But these radiations of God cannot take on form and become creations except God wills so. Husband and wife is a relationship and not an ability. Creation is a very big word. Awareness that God created us is not the same as God created us. Thus, until we came into existence, we are just an unformed radiation of God but it takes an act of will of God to give conformation to these unformed radiations, hence our coming into being. Besides there are several other creations of God that came into existence before us. Thus even at the time we did not exist, other higher beings existed and these higher beings were created by God. God does not need his creations but his creations is absolutely dependent on God. It is the uncounscious longing for existence in these radiations of God that GOD answered to by bringing all creations into existence. It is the incomprehensible living love that is in God that permitted the miracle of creation. Stay blessed.

Please explain, how can the uncouncious be longing for existence, where was a man before creation, are you saying we were all longing to exist here on earth, before birth as well. How?

m_nwankwo:

Thanks Sarmy. If an actor has the ability to act, then he is an actor whether or not he produces a work of art.  The main point is that such a one is capable of acting and he will produce a work of art if he wants and willnot if he does not want. Thus whether or not he produces a work of art depends on if he wills so. Now coming to God, it lies in his omnipotence to decide to create or not to create. In the radiations of God lies all that is necessary for creations to spring forth. But these radiations of God cannot take on form and become creations except God wills so. Husband and wife is a relationship and not an ability. Creation is a very big word. Awareness that God created us is not the same as God created us. Thus, until we came into existence, we are just an unformed radiation of God but it takes an act of will of God to give conformation to these unformed radiations, hence our coming into being. Besides there are several other creations of God that came into existence before us. Thus even at the time we did not exist, other higher beings existed and these higher beings were created by God. God does not need his creations but his creations is absolutely dependent on God. It is the uncounscious longing for existence in these radiations of God that GOD answered to by bringing all creations into existence. It is the incomprehensible living love that is in God that permitted the miracle of creation. Stay blessed.

Unformed radiations of God? I have a serious problem with this theory, sir. Can you shed more light to these unformed radiations. Were they part of God, or were they separate entities? Were they in existence or were they not?

Personally, i do not buy this "unformed radiations" concept because it would mean that before creation of individual humans, they were already in existence as individual "radiations" of God (whatever that means) that can individually and independently desire for existence. I do not buy that at all.

In my view, the only life form that can desire for existence is the only thing in existence and that is the creative life force itself, the creator. It's desire for bring one form of existence or the other to manifest is the only driving factor that brings everything into existence.

m_nwankwo:

Thus even at the time we did not exist, other higher beings existed and these higher beings were created by God. God does not need his creations but his creations is absolutely dependent on God.

If God does not need it's creations, why create them in the first place? And i won't accept the "unformed radiations" hypothesis as an argument. I am sorry, that sounds rather dubious to me.

Jenwitemi:

Unformed radiations of God? I have a serious problem with this theory, sir. Can you shed more light to these unformed radiations. Were they part of God, or were they separate entities? Were they in existence or were they not?

Personally, i do not buy this "unformed radiations" concept because it would mean that before creation of individual humans, they were already in existence as individual "radiations" of God (whatever that means) that can individually and independently desire for existence. I do not buy that at all.

In my view, the only life form that can desire for existence is the only thing in existence and that is the creative life force itself, the creator. It's desire for bring one form of existence or the other to manifest is the only driving factor that brings everything into existence.
If God does not need it's creations, why create them in the first place? And i won't accept the "unformed radiations" hypothesis as an argument? I am sorry, but that sounds rather dubious to me.

I agree with you, how can the uncreated be [b]longing [/b]to exist from an unconcious state.

sarmy:

Please explain, how can the uncouncious be longing for existence, where was a man before creation, are you saying we were all longing to exist here on earth, before birth as well. How?

sarmy:

I agree with you, how can the uncreated be [b]longing [/b]to exist from an unconcious state.

Hi Sarmy. Thanks for your response. The questions you raised are pertinent and I will attempt to address them as follows. God is the Primordial Life or the Primordial Light or the Primordial Power. In other words only God is alive and everything else that is alive derived their "life" from God. One can also say that God is the Primordial source of Energy. A natural consequence of Primordial Life, Light, Power or Primordial Energy is that it radiates or produces emanations. Thus, there is only God and his emanations or radiations. The divine radiations of God is everthing else outside of the unsubstantiate Primordial Source. A crude analogy will be to use the sun and its stellar radiations. The stellar radiations are produced or emanate from the sun but they are not the sun itself.

Now, this divine radiations of God contain all the building blocks of what ever was, is and will take on form. Now, the ability to take on form is dependent on the intrinsic strength of any radiation of God to withstand the enormous pressure or force field that is a consequnce of the Primordial Energy. Now the strongest of all these radiations were able to take on form and became divine confirmations of the radiation of God. Now when everthing that can withstand this force field from God has taken on form, there remained residues of these divine radiations which can not form themselves because they are not strong to withstand the  force fields in the "proximity" of God. These residues cannot form  but they do have the intrinsic drive or urge or longing for existence. These residues of the divine radiations are hardwired to strive from uncounsciousness to counsciousness and then to self counsciousness.

Just like life on earth is possible only billions of light years from our sun, so is it that these uncounscious residues of divine radiations can only take on form at cosmic distances from God. It is in aswer to this hardwired uncounscious urge for existence that God through an act of his will brought creation into existence. It is only in creation will these residues  be able to take on form instantaneously or through development. Now the first cooling off of these residues constitute the first creation or what is refered to as Primordial creation. The Primordial creation is the direct creation of God and it can be described as an image or a reflection of the divine worlds. A cooling off of the unformed residues of the primordial creation gave rise to spiritual creation. The spiritual creation is again an image or reflection of the primordial creation. At the last plane of the spiritual creation, there remained some spirtual radiations which can not take on form in the spirtual instantaneously or by development. To these belong the human spirt germs or seeds. Again just like a seed can only develop into a plant if it sown in a fertile soil, the only possiblity for the human spirit seeds or germs to develop and form is to be expelled from the heaven or the kingdom of God into the world of matter. The world of matter both visible and invinsible was created by servants of God under the command of God so that the human spirit seeds can have the possibility of development from an uncounscious seed to the likeness of the images of God.


Just like sparks fly off from an amber or bubbles sprout from a heated water at a precise temperature, so do spirit germs constantaly get ejected from the last plane of the spirtual into the world of matter. Germs whose drive or longing has not ripened, something analogous to reaching a specific temperature remain as spirt germs in heaven, the kingdom of God. Thus strange as it may sound, we were created because we uncounsciously sent out a petition to God, not in words but by the nature of the emanations that comes from the uncouscious residues. It is in the various planes of the world of matter that they have the opportunity to transform from an uncounscious spirit seed into a personality with a human spiritual form. The step by step process of how the spirt germ sinks into the world of matter, how it is cloaked in the various planes and how finally it recieves a physical cloak or body in the womb of a  woman can be explained to the minutest detail but that may not be necessary now and probably will cause confusion.

Thus to answer your question, the human spirit was not in existence before creation. He developed from a spirt germ and spirt germs came into existence only at the last plane of the spiritual world. Human spirts who developed their self counsciousness according to the will of God will return back to the kingdom of God as a self counscious human spirit. Those who developed their self counsciousness in contradiction to the will of God will loose this self counsciousness, and revert back to spirit germs, a process refered to as spirtual death or effacement from the book of life. If you also follow my explanations above, you will decipher that man was in existence before he was born on earth for the first time and that happened around 1.8 million years ago. All human beings who are presently on earth have been here atleast seven times in various earthly incarnations. There are other parts of the the world of matter where fresh huuman spirit germs go for their development. Our earth has already passed its middle cycle and that makes it impossible for new spirit germs from heaven to incarnate here. There are other earth-like planets in other physical universes where fresh human spirits are incarnated. But it is not the purpose of this discussion to give detailed insight into this and I will leave it. Besides, what is happening in other universes have no spiritual benefit to us leaving in our own physical universe. Someday, when a human spirt has developed in the sense of the laws of God, the gates of heaven will open up for him, and from such a hight, he or she can then survey, the incomprehensible magnitude of creations of God below the spiritual creation. He will also percieve inwardly and through higher spiritual guides the vastness of creations above the spiritual creation, and how small he is in comparison to what is above him. His guides may permit him a radiated picture of a primordial being and when he sees that just one primordial beign can hold our entire milky way galaxy in the palm of his hands , then his place in creation will become clearer. The claim by men that are God or can develop into God or are parts of God cannot be taken seriously by one who really knows.

Now I stated that the drive or urge for existencce is hardwired in the spirit seed. You can even in physical enviroment see examples of inherent drive or urge or desire in an uncounscious thing. A mango seed for instance is uncounscious but is hardwired intrinsically to become a mango tree once the appropriate environmet is given. It intrinsically follows the process of germination, growth and fructification without being counscious of it. A human zygote for example is uncounscious but the genetic program it inherited from its parents propels it through the various stages of embryogenesis, birth, cry etc. If you are married, I will advise you to be around when your wife will deliver and watch closely, the instinctive actions of a new born including the instinctive seeking for the mothers n.ipp.le, then certain things may become clear. Stay blessed.

@ Jenwitemi. Hi, my answer to Sarmy is relevant to some of the questions you raised in your last post. Hopefully tommorrow, I will find time to address some of the specific questions/comments in your last post. Stay blessed.

@m_nwankwo, thanks for the additional information. I will like to clarify the following.

1. From your believe, is God a spirit person and having eyes, legs, hands, etc or an enegy source like sun or what? (I personally obseved that most people that claimed to have died and came back to life or NDE's no one has ever seen God, some may claim to have see heaven or met Jesus but not God, so is God a person or energy source)

2. Like you rightly said that the drive or urge for existencce is hardwired in the spirit seed, it means that God did the wiring, if he had not done that we would not have had any urge to exist and if we did not exist we would not have known or missed anything at all

The step by step process of how the spirt germ sinks into the world of matter, how it is cloaked in the various planes and how finally it recieves a physical cloak or body in the womb of a woman can be explained to the minutest detail but that may not be necessary now and probably will cause confusion.

I'm interested in that process if you can share more.

3. By the way, are you a xtain, muslim, or what?

Thanks

m_nwankwo:

Hi Deepsight. Yes, what does the painting is the ability and not the expression of the ability. Thus one who has the abilty to paint or the ability to produce engineering works is an artist or an engineer. But even this remains a very crude analogy for in these earthly examples, the abilty was acquired or developed, presuppossing that at some time the one who is an artist today is not one several years ago. With respect to God, the ability has no beginning and no end for it is living in God. Stay blessed.

The above is really very deep and I completely agree with it. When it comes to earthly manifestations one has to be careful before labeling what the individual making the manifestation is. What is important and what is decisive in setting into motion the laws of creation is the radiations of the spirit and not necessarily the physical manifestation of the ability which resides in the spirit.

I will give an example:
A man who has nourished(in his spirit) the desire to write stories; this desire radiates out of his spirit and attracts stories, but his physical body cannot bring these stories into the physical realm in the form of a book, because perhaps this man does not know how to read and write. Before the laws of creation such a man is a writer, even though he has never, physically written a book.

This man may have contributed, thorough his volition, to the writing of Chinua Achebe’s book without knowing it.

Another example:
An man is filled with the desire to murder, but out of fear of going to jail, he never committed murder physically. Before the laws of creation this man is a murderer, even though the earthly legal systems would not call him a murderer.

Likewise a man may be filled with the volition to make money, this volition radiates from his spirit. He decides that the best way to make money is by becoming a pastor. Filled with this volition he goes to school and learns how to preach and becomes a pastor. Men on earth would call him a pastor, but before the laws of creation, such a man is not a pastor. Before the laws of creation he remains a man lusting after money. As long as his desire to preach did not emanate from his spirit, as long as this desire is merely propelled by the spiritual volition to make money, this man remain a man lusting for money and not a pastor as far as the laws of creation are concerned.

Thus it is not the outward manifestation that determines what a man is, but rather that which radiates from his spirit.

One thing about creation is that that abilities, desires, and volitions never remain inactive. Every desire, ability or volition that emanates from the spirit takes on form and presses upon condensation. Even if the person who produced it did not condense it personally, it can press upon another person of the same nature and gets condescend through that parson.

Every ability that resides in your spirit is constantly being coarse into activity. If it ever becomes inactive in you, you will lose this ability; it will be pulled away from you by one who makes use of it. To him who has little, even the little he has will be taken away from him and be given to him who has more.

No volition can remain inactive, it is constantly evolving, growing, attracting others and being attracted to others; it is constantly affecting others and the person who produced it. It may cause another person to anchor it in the physical, and not necessarily the person who produced it.

The same is applicable to God, only in a higher form. God’s volition can never become inactive. It takes on form and is constantly working. The creative ability of God took on form and is constantly working -- eternally creating and renewing creation. As long as this ability resides in God, God is a creator. Thus what makes God a creator is not what He created but the ability to create which lies eternally in God.

God can exist without creation(From primordial spiritual realm to the coarsest gross material realm or heaven and earth) But God cannot exist without His creative ability; as much as He cannot exist without His love; because these are intricate parts of His being. Even the radiations of God carry these qualities(abilities); and these qualities(abilities) in the radiation of God takes on form and formed the realm of Divine substantiality. I.e. the Primordial Queen is the conformation of the Love of God in the radiations of God; while Jesus is the conformation of the love of God that is in God Himself(within God).

Thus God did not need to create creation(Heaven and earth) to become a creator; He was, He is and He will eternally be the Creator, because the ability to create is eternally living within Him as an intricate part of Him.

Likewise God did not need to create creation(heaven and earth) to become love; He was, He is and He will eternally remain the LOVE, because the Living LOVE(Jesus) is eternally living within Him as an intricate part of Him.


This is my perception though.

m_nwankwo:

Hi Sarmy. Thanks for your response. The questions you raised are pertinent and I will attempt to address them as follows. God is the Primordial Life or the Primordial Light or the Primordial Power. In other words only God is alive and everything else that is alive derived their "life" from God. One can also say that God is the Primordial source of Energy. A natural consequence of Primordial Life, Light, Power or Primordial Energy is that it radiates or produces emanations. Thus, there is only God and his emanations or radiations. The divine radiations of God is everthing else outside of the unsubstantiate Primordial Source. A crude analogy will be to use the sun and its stellar radiations. The stellar radiations are produced or emanate from the sun but they are not the sun itself.

Now, this divine radiations of God contain all the building blocks of what ever was, is and will take on form. Now, the ability to take on form is dependent on the intrinsic strength of any radiation of God to withstand the enormous pressure or force field that is a consequnce of the Primordial Energy. Now the strongest of all these radiations were able to take on form and became divine confirmations of the radiation of God. Now when everthing that can withstand this force field from God has taken on form, there remained residues of these divine radiations which can not form themselves because they are not strong to withstand the force fields in the "proximity" of God. These residues cannot form but they do have the intrinsic drive or urge or longing for existence. These residues of the divine radiations are hardwired to strive from uncounsciousness to counsciousness and then to self counsciousness.

Just like life on earth is possible only billions of light years from our sun, so is it that these uncounscious residues of divine radiations can only take on form at cosmic distances from God. It is in aswer to this hardwired uncounscious urge for existence that God through an act of his will brought creation into existence. It is only in creation will these residues be able to take on form instantaneously or through development. Now the first cooling off of these residues constitute the first creation or what is refered to as Primordial creation. The Primordial creation is the direct creation of God and it can be described as an image or a reflection of the divine worlds. A cooling off of the unformed residues of the primordial creation gave rise to spiritual creation. The spiritual creation is again an image or reflection of the primordial creation. At the last plane of the spiritual creation, there remained some spirtual radiations which can not take on form in the spirtual instantaneously or by development. To these belong the human spirt germs or seeds. Again just like a seed can only develop into a plant if it sown in a fertile soil, the only possiblity for the human spirit seeds or germs to develop and form is to be expelled from the heaven or the kingdom of God into the world of matter. The world of matter both visible and invinsible was created by servants of God under the command of God so that the human spirit seeds can have the possibility of development from an uncounscious seed to the likeness of the images of God.


Just like sparks fly off from an amber or bubbles sprout from a heated water at a precise temperature, so do spirit germs constantaly get ejected from the last plane of the spirtual into the world of matter. Germs whose drive or longing has not ripened, something analogous to reaching a specific temperature remain as spirt germs in heaven, the kingdom of God. Thus strange as it may sound, we were created because we uncounsciously sent out a petition to God, not in words but by the nature of the emanations that comes from the uncouscious residues. It is in the various planes of the world of matter that they have the opportunity to transform from an uncounscious spirit seed into a personality with a human spiritual form. The step by step process of how the spirt germ sinks into the world of matter, how it is cloaked in the various planes and how finally it recieves a physical cloak or body in the womb of a woman can be explained to the minutest detail but that may not be necessary now and probably will cause confusion.

Thus to answer your question, the human spirit was not in existence before creation. He developed from a spirt germ and spirt germs came into existence only at the last plane of the spiritual world. Human spirts who developed their self counsciousness according to the will of God will return back to the kingdom of God as a self counscious human spirit. Those who developed their self counsciousness in contradiction to the will of God will loose this self counsciousness, and revert back to spirit germs, a process refered to as spirtual death or effacement from the book of life. If you also follow my explanations above, you will decipher that man was in existence before he was born on earth for the first time and that happened around 1.8 million years ago. All human beings who are presently on earth have been here atleast seven times in various earthly incarnations. There are other parts of the the world of matter where fresh huuman spirit germs go for their development. Our earth has already passed its middle cycle and that makes it impossible for new spirit germs from heaven to incarnate here. There are other earth-like planets in other physical universes where fresh human spirits are incarnated. But it is not the purpose of this discussion to give detailed insight into this and I will leave it. Besides, what is happening in other universes have no spiritual benefit to us leaving in our own physical universe. Someday, when a human spirt has developed in the sense of the laws of God, the gates of heaven will open up for him, and from such a hight, he or she can then survey, the incomprehensible magnitude of creations of God below the spiritual creation. He will also percieve inwardly and through higher spiritual guides the vastness of creations above the spiritual creation, and how small he is in comparison to what is above him. His guides may permit him a radiated picture of a primordial being and when he sees that just one primordial beign can hold our entire milky way galaxy in the palm of his hands , then his place in creation will become clearer. The claim by men that are God or can develop into God or are parts of God cannot be taken seriously by one who really knows.

Now I stated that the drive or urge for existencce is hardwired in the spirit seed. You can even in physical enviroment see examples of inherent drive or urge or desire in an uncounscious thing. A mango seed for instance is uncounscious but is hardwired intrinsically to become a mango tree once the appropriate environmet is given. It intrinsically follows the process of germination, growth and fructification without being counscious of it. A human zygote for example is uncounscious but the genetic program it inherited from its parents propels it through the various stages of embryogenesis, birth, cry etc. If you are married, I will advise you to be around when your wife will deliver and watch closely, the instinctive actions of a new born including the instinctive seeking for the mothers n.ipp.le, then certain things may become clear. Stay blessed.

Very nicely put!!!!

nice thread but jeez loooooooooong posts

justcool:

The above is really very deep and I completely agree with it. When it comes to earthly manifestations one has to be careful before labeling what the individual making the manifestation is. What is important and what is decisive in setting into motion the laws of creation is the radiations of the spirit and not necessarily the physical manifestation of the ability which resides in the spirit.

I will give an example:
A man who has nourished(in his spirit) the desire to write stories; this desire radiates out of his spirit and attracts stories, but his physical body cannot bring these stories into the physical realm in the form of a book, because perhaps this man does not know how to read and write. Before the laws of creation such a man is a writer, even though he has never, physically written a book.

This man may have contributed, thorough his volition, to the writing of Chinua Achebe’s book without knowing it.

Another example:
An man is filled with the desire to murder, but out of fear of going to jail, he never committed murder physically. Before the laws of creation this man is a murderer, even though the earthly legal systems would not call him a murderer.

Likewise a man may be filled with the volition to make money, this volition radiates from his spirit. He decides that the best way to make money is by becoming a pastor. Filled with this volition he goes to school and learns how to preach and becomes a pastor. Men on earth would call him a pastor, but before the laws of creation, such a man is not a pastor. Before the laws of creation he remains a man lusting after money. As long as his desire to preach did not emanate from his spirit, as long as this desire is merely propelled by the spiritual volition to make money, this man remain a man lusting for money and not a pastor as far as the laws of creation are concerned.

Thus it is not the outward manifestation that determines what a man is, but rather that which radiates from his spirit.

One thing about creation is that that abilities, desires, and volitions never remain inactive. Every desire, ability or volition that emanates from the spirit takes on form and presses upon condensation. Even if the person who produced it did not condense it personally, it can press upon another person of the same nature and gets condescend through that parson.

Every ability that resides in your spirit is constantly being coarse into activity. If it ever becomes inactive in you, you will lose this ability; it will be pulled away from you by one who makes use of it. To him who has little, even the little he has will be taken away from him and be given to him who has more.

No volition can remain inactive, it is constantly evolving, growing, attracting others and being attracted to others; it is constantly affecting others and the person who produced it. It may cause another person to anchor it in the physical, and not necessarily the person who produced it.

The same is applicable to God, only in a higher form. God’s volition can never become inactive. It takes on form and is constantly working. The creative ability of God took on form and is constantly working -- eternally creating and renewing creation. As long as this ability resides in God, God is a creator. Thus what makes God a creator is not what He created but the ability to create which lies eternally in God.

God can exist without creation(From primordial spiritual realm to the coarsest gross material realm or heaven and earth) But God cannot exist without His creative ability; as much as He cannot exist without His love; because these are intricate parts of His being. Even the radiations of God carry these qualities(abilities); and these qualities(abilities) in the radiation of God takes on form and formed the realm of Divine substantiality. I.e. the Primordial Queen is the conformation of the Love of God in the radiations of God; while Jesus is the conformation of the love of God that is in God Himself(within God).

Thus God did not need to create creation(Heaven and earth) to become a creator; He was, He is and He will eternally be the Creator, because the ability to create is eternally living within Him as an intricate part of Him.

Likewise God did not need to create creation(heaven and earth) to become love; He was, He is and He will eternally remain the LOVE, because the Living LOVE(Jesus) is eternally living within Him as an intricate part of Him.


This is my perception though.

Thanks for that exposition but can you explain more on the need aspect of creation, are you 100% in support of m_nwankwo that even though "the drive or urge for existencce is hardwired in the spirit seed" by the creator, it was still the created longing for existence from their state of inexistence. if you agree with him, can you add more inputs.

Please don't hesistate to go into details on the primordial spiritual realm to the coarsest gross material realm or heaven and earth if you can, seems you and m_nwakwo are of thesame school of thought. Thanks

mantraa:

From Jenwitemi
This is very good. I would expand that and say that maybe the universe is god. It is infinite, created itself, all around us and created us. We are in it and of it and just now beginning to start to understand it, just as we are starting to understand ourselves.

I was asking m_nwankwo if (from his perception) God is:-

1. A person with legs, hands, eyes, head, etc and siting on the throne somewhere

2. An energy source with no specific shape/size, or can take any shape he likes

3. Spiritual force, light or life living inside of us and has no specific shape size or place of abode

4. May be he's actually the universe like you said.

5. Where is his abode, is he ouside of this physical universe, or in a parallel invisible universe.

These questions and many more are begging for answers though we may not know which is the correct answer for now, but at least we can keep asking ourselves, in as much as he has never appeared to anyone, some claimed to have died and came back to life saying they saw Jesus, heaven, hell etc but no one has ever said they saw God. When Thomas asked Jesus to show them the father, he only said if they have seen him they have seen the father which mean God is in us. God in us, hope of glory

@Sarmy and Jenwitemi,

I will address your comments and questions over the weekend. My apologies for not replying soonest. Stay blessed.

@Justcool,

Hi. Thanks for your kind words. Stay blessed.

@sarmy
Thanks for your questions, I will treat them accordingly.

sarmy:


Thanks for that exposition but can you explain more on the need aspect of creation, are you 100% in support of m_nwankwo that even though "the drive or urge for existence is hardwired in the spirit seed" by the creator, it was still the created longing for existence from their state of inexistence. if you agree with him, can you add more inputs.

I agree with m_nwankwo's explanation but not in the words that you put it, and I don't think that your words accurately capture what m_nwankwo was conveying. It is not from their state of inexistance that the spirits germs longed to be created. Inexistance is the wrong choice of words; the spirit germs not only were already in existence before the longing arouse in them, but they had already reached a stage in their existence. Thus they were already in existence, and after a certain degree of maturity or ripeness did the urge for consciousness arise in them.

Replace the word 'inexistance' with the word 'unconscious.' The spirit germs were in existence in Paradise but in an unconscious state of existence.

Now I know your next question: "How can something unconscious develop an urge or a petition?"

The answer to this puzzle lie in the love of God and in the radiation of the spirit germs. There is a law in creation which can be expressed as "where there is room for development, development must be made." The love of God is always watchfull and always gives help where help it needed; it always provides an opportunity for development where development is possible.

Everything in creation radiates, the spirit germs radiates too, and at a certain stage in the state of the spirit germs their radiation changes. This change in radiation can be likened to a petition to the creator to be allowed to develop. The spirit germs carry the ability to develop within them, just as a mango seed carries the ability to grow into a mango tree. And I have already explained in my previous post that in creation every ability is constantly caressed into activity and cannot remain inactive.

The activity of the created primordial beings in Primordial spiritual planes radiate downwards towards the spiritual planes, influencing and supporting the spiritual into activity. It is these radiations that influences the unconscious spirit germs, caressing them to reach to the stage where they are ripe to be planted. At this stage, their colour of their radiation changes and the Love of God notices this change.

Thus it is not a conscious petition per-ser. It can be likened to a mango fruit which on reaching a certain state of ripeness changes colour. The watchful farmer notices this change in color and plucks the fruits. One can say that the fruits asked to be plucked by reaching that stage in their ripeness which necessitated their plucking.

It can also be likened to a child inside the womb of its mother. On reaching a stage in its development the child causes contractions which the woman feels as pains of labour and knows that the child is ready to be born. Thus one can say that the child asked its mother to give birth to it. Prior to birth, the child had existed but in a different form. Prior to birth the child is a developing fetus, but after birth it becomes a child. The same is applicable to the spirit germ; prior to ejection from paradise it was just an unconscious spirit germ or seed.

It is also compareable to an infant in a crib. On reaching a certain stage of hunger, the infant gives out a cry. The watchful mother recognises this cry as a request, petition or urge to be feed, and and picks up the infant and feeds it.

I will summerize:
The spirit germs came into existence in Paradise as unconscious spirit germs. The powerful activity of the primordial beings above has an effect on all that is spiritual, even the unconscious spirit germs. This effect causes the germs to reach a point in their maturity where they develop an urge towards self consciousness. The love of God notices this change in the spirit germs and affords them the opportunity to do so by allowing them to be ejected from paradise.

I hope this helps; you can always as questions.

You can also check out what I wrote in another thread about the development of the spirit germs and why they left Paradise here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=390145.msg5421272#msg5421272
Also check out my next post, immediatley after this post.

sarmy:

Please don't hesistate to go into details on the primordial spiritual realm to the coarsest gross material realm or heaven and earth if you can, seems you and m_nwakwo are of thesame school of thought. Thanks

I offered my perception on the structure of creation, from Primordial to the coarsest gross matter, in following thread as well as many other threads.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=443101.msg6013170#msg6013170

Please read it and let me know if you have questions. I will gladly offer my perceptions on any question you may have.

I will not call my perceptions 'a school of thought,' I write out of a LIVING conviction in me. I draw my knowledge from a book called 'In the Light of Truth: The Grail Message.' by Abd-ru-shin. You might want to examine the book yourself.

Thanks and remain blessed.

@sarmy
In addition to what I wrote in my previous post and to further elaborate on the issue of the development of the spirit germs, here is what I wrote in another thread.

Please read:

All Life started with God who is life Himself; only God can create life. We humans spirits were created as spirit germs in Paradise which is in the vicinity of God. As spirit germs we could not become conscious in Paradise due to the immense radiation of the Light of God there. But the desire to become concious(know good from evil in bibilical terms) filled these spirit germs; and the only way for the spirit germs to become conscious is by moving further away from the light, in the planes of matter which lie further way from the light than Paradies. Out of love, God allowed His servants to develop or form the world of matter in which the physcal world belongs. The earth also belong to the physical world. At a certain stage in the development of the earth, God allowed some of the spirit germs from paradise to incarnate on earth. Before they incarnated on earth, they had already journed down from paradise to the etherial ream; and when the earth was ready, they incarnated on earth. This is how man on earth was made, and this is how the human spirit was driven out of Paradise. All the spirit germs in Paradise could not incarnate on earth at once; so they incarnated over a long period of time until the earth passed the stage in its development where no new spirit germs from paradise can incarnate. There are so many spirit germs; so it was not only one man and one woman. After each earth life the spirit continues its existence in the beyond(ethereal realm) which is still part of the material world. After living on earth the spirit is trapped in the part of the ethereal realm which corresponds to its weight; thus theives will find themself in the same plane, killers will find themselves in the same plane, while noble ones will find themselves in a noble plane. The plane corresponds to the nature of the spirit; thus a plane where a killer finds himself will be a bad and ugly plane, a plane of suffering. A plane where a good person finds himself after physical death will be a good and beautiful plane. The spirit stays there until its time for it to incarnate on earth again. It is also possible that a spirit(soul) makes progress in the etherial world, ie- a killer in the etherial plane of killer changes and stops being a killer. This change will also change its etherial environmemt; it will find itself in better etherial plane, a plane that correspond to its new state. But all these etherial planes still belong to the world of matter.  A spirit that lives according to the laws of God(the true teachings of Christ) will achieve enough maturity and purity that will allow it to be lifted beyond the worlds of matter. Such a spirit enters paradise as a mature and pure human spirit who will not have to descend into matter again or incarnate on earth again. Therefore reincarnation is not ment to repeat forever.

The reason why we are in the world of mather is to mature and return back to Paradise which is our real home. This world(the worlds of matter, both here and the etherial) is not our home, rather it is a place lent to us for us to live in and mature. The worlds of matter can be divided into two -(1) Coarse, or gross matter, and (2) etherial matter. Each of these two still have many divisions and many planes. Ie the physical world belongs to the lowest part of the of the worlds of coarse matter.

There are always more spirits in the ethereal world than on earth. Everything that is matter passes through the four stages of birth, blossoming, ripeness,and decay(death). Our physical bodies go through this process, so does the earth and the whole material universe. Now that the whole world of matter entering the stage where destruction(decay) sets in, many human spirits who are in the beyond are rushing to incarnate on earth and pay their debts(purify themselves) and be lifted out of matter to paradise before the destruction of matter takes place. This is part of the reason why the earth is overpopulated today.

There comes a time when the worlds of matter enters the stage of decay, it decays; only to be reborn and the process continues. But a spirit that cannot free itself from matter will remain in matter while matter decays. Being drawn into the process of decomposition of matter will make the spirit lose conciousness, the spirit returns to being a spirit germ; and returns to paradise as a spirit germ. This is tantamount to the death of the spirit or more precisely the death of the acquired ago, or personality.


The law of reciprocal action demands that a spirit must redeem its guilt in the same plane where he committed the crime. IE a killer on earth must return back to the earth to pay for the crimes he/she committed on earth. Thus such a spirit must reincarnate to pay its debts. That's why we see people born blind, and people born with terminal illnesses and we wonder why God is so unjust to them. It is not injustice, it is the Karma that they incurred in their past lives on earth, which they must redeem on earth. This could also be why some kids die at birth. But if one repents and does only good, a way will be shown to him/her through which he/she can pay for his/her karma without suffering. IE a Killer who repents might in his next earth life decide to be a doctor, by saving peoples lives as a doctor, he has payed for his karma. Therefore when a man truly repents, all sins will be forgiven him.

People dont usually remenber who they were in thier past lives. This is also a manifestation of the love of God. This makes the individual feel like he/she has been given a fresh start, the memory of the past would not deter it. Ie- if one learns that he was Nero in his past live, this may make him lose all hope of salvation. But in not remembering his past, he is given an oppunity to carry on do good deeds.

I cannot tell you when each spirit will return to earth, the laws of God guide and direct all these things. It depends on the spirits developement, and its Karma. Some of the times, it is karma that forces the spirit to reincarnate on earth.

I will give an example: If you harm sombody on earth and the person refuses to forgive you. You are tied to this person with an invissible cord. As long as the unforginess remains, this cord remains, and you cannot enter paradise when you are tied to somebody like that.  This tie may force you to reincarnate on earth when that person reincarntes. You may reincarnate as his relative and in this incarnation you are given the oppotunity to earn his forgiveness. Ie a man who harms a girl might be forced to reincarnate as the girls son in his next life. By being a good son, he earns the girls love and forgiveness whithout actually knowing it; he is freed from this tie.

The same is applicable to the person who refuses to forgive. If you refuse to forgive, you are tied to the person you refused to forgive, and you cannever enter paradise untill you have severed this tie by genuinlely forgiving the person that offended. Even if the person is in hell and you are on earth, distances doesnt matter. This tie may force you to incarnate on earth in the vicinity of your offender. This is why forgiveness is very important.

There is a law that everything must return back to its origin. Thus our physical bodies which came from the earth( the physcal world) it must at the end return or remain in the physical world. No physical body(flesh and blood) can enter the ethereal realm, and likewise, no ethereal body can enter the spiritual realm. The physical body must be left in the physical world, and the ethereal body must left in the ethereal realm before the spirit enter the spiritual world(Paradise) with its spiritual body. Therefore the physical body which is corruptible can never enter the spiritual world which is incorruptible. It lacks the lightness and consistency of the spiritual. It is the spiritual world that is the kingdom of God.

Paul hinted this when he said:

"I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable" (hebrews 6:18)

What I wrote is a summery of a great and an immense process. I can go deeper into it. Let me know the areas that are confusing and I will elaborate.

Thanks

One can only answer from ones paradigm.
As a Christian U have to understand 'God" in a different way.
There is a spirit(invisible) aspect of God and there's a visible side.

The father is God, which no man has ever seen. He is a Spirit.
The father is said to dwell in an unapproachable light.

The son(Jesus) is God which pple have seen. He is the only manifested member of the Godhead,
the expression, and the image of God(the father).

The holy spirit, as the name implies is unseen too. U can call Him the energy of the Godhead.

So in essence there's the antromophic side of God.
God is not the uiverse He created the universe.
Where is His home? Well we are told He is in heaven. Lemme quickly say there are depth in the oceans
hights in the heaven , space in the universe that has not been and cannot be xplored by science.

He told them that if they've seen him(Jesus) then they'v seen the father, not because of the general "God is in us" talk.
If that was the case Jesus wuldda said as long as u see EACH OTHER u'v seen God.
Buthe said if u'v seen Him(Jesus) u'v seen God(the father) cos like i said Jesus is the expresion, the splittin image of Him.

Stay blessed.

oNe

Jenwitemi:

Unformed radiations of God? I have a serious problem with this theory, sir. Can you shed more light to these unformed radiations. Were they part of God, or were they separate entities? Were they in existence or were they not?

Personally, i do not buy this "unformed radiations" concept because it would mean that before creation of individual humans, they were already in existence as individual "radiations" of God (whatever that means) that can individually and independently desire for existence. I do not buy that at all.

In my view, the only life form that can desire for existence is the only thing in existence and that is the creative life force itself, the creator. It's desire for bring one form of existence or the other to manifest is the only driving factor that brings everything into existence.
If God does not need it's creations, why create them in the first place? And i won't accept the "unformed radiations" hypothesis as an argument. I am sorry, that sounds rather dubious to me.

Hi Jenwitemi. I have in my answer to Sarmy explained what I meant by unformed radiations of God. The radiations of God whether formed or unformed are not part of God nor do they reside in God. They are emanations from God, just like stellar radiations are emanation from the sun but not the sun. When a radiation of God has not taken on a conformation, the unformed radiation is in existence but the form or entity that will emerge from it either instantaneously or through development is not in existence. You can observe a crude form of this even in our physical universe. In crude oil for example lies elements that through the process of refining will give rise to petrol, disel, aviation fuel etc. But you cannot say that crude oil is aviation fuel or petrol and neither can you say that because kerosene comes from Crude oil , that it is already millions of years old just like crude oil. It is the process of refining, analogous to creation that transforms crude oil into its various componets. This remains a crude picture meant to convey a remote sensing of the actual process of creating. For instance while refining of crude oil will finally lead to the depletion of crude oil, the radiations of God are inexhaustible no matter the conformations that emerge from it.

There are mulifarious gradations of the unformed radiations of God. The unformed radiations of God that existed before creation  are divine unformed radiations. The unformed spiritual radiations from which the spirit germs ermerged or precipitated from were not in existence before creation. The unformed spiritual radiations of God from which the human spiritual developed from came into existence only after the first or primordial creation.

God created out of love for his radiations and in answer to the uncounscious urge for existence that is hardwired in his radiations.  In these beautiful creations, each and every unformed radiation of God has the possibility to instantaneously emerge as a conformation or develop from a seed to a conformation. Every creature of God, no matter how blessed can counsciously exist only within creation.  Should God decide to limit his radiations to the way it was before creation, then the entire creation and all the creatures will cease to exist.

I see your point but do not agree with it. There is a relationship between the creator and his creation but that realtionship is not tantamount to inseparability. A Potter and the clay in his hands are not inseparable. The Potter can mould the clay to any form he so desires, pot, plates, blocks, even buildings and yet these are conformations of the clay and not conformations of the Potter. If the forms, pot, plates, buildings etc decays or disintegrates, they will return back to clay and not the Potter. Thus even if a conformation of the radiation of God is disintegrated, then it reverts back to unformed radiation of God. There is no transformation that will transform the stellar radiations into the sun. Similarly, no amount of transformation or development can turn a creature into the creator or parts of the creator. Stay blessed.

^^^^ Nwankwo, do you know what radiations mean? You say these socalled "radiations of God" are not part of God, but yet they are radiations emanating from God. Haven't you just contradicted yourself right there? Are the radiations of the sun not part of the sun? Just because the sun's radiations are projected outwards and far from the sun does not make them less integral part of the sun.

Are these radiations of God separate entities? Are you saying that these "radiations" are uncreated, unconscious, separate entities from God that yearn for existence? Do you realize how convoluted and self-contradictory that idea is? It is a ludicrously convoluted hypothetical gymnastics. It just doesn't work. While it is a creative concept, but it just does not work. I think you will need to either rework your current model or create a new one.

m_nwankwo:

Hi Jenwitemi.

I see your point but do not agree with it. There is a relationship between the creator and his creation but that realtionship is not tantamount to inseparability. A Potter and the clay in his hands are not inseparable. The Potter can mould the clay to any form he so desires, pot, plates, blocks, even buildings and yet these are conformations of the clay and not conformations of the Potter. If the forms, pot, plates, buildings etc decays or disintegrates, they will return back to clay and not the Potter. Thus even if a conformation of the radiation of God is disintegrated, then it reverts back to unformed radiation of God. There is no transformation that will transform the stellar radiations into the sun. Similarly, no amount of transformation or development can turn a creature into the creator or parts of the creator.  Stay blessed.

The clay and the Potter, these are two separate entities(if i may use that word). A clay does not emanate from a potter, it is completely separate from him, existing alongside him or her. So clays don't yearn for existence because they already exist and are inanimate, and neither do clays yearn to be formed into something. That yearning comes from the potter him/herself out of one need or the other. No, it does not work, but nice try, though.

Jenwitemi:

^^^^ Nwankwo, do you know what radiations mean? You say these socalled "radiations of God" are not part of God, but yet they are radiations emanating from God. Haven't you just contradicted yourself right there? Are the radiations of the sun not part of the sun? Just because the sun's radiations are projected outwards and far from the sun does not make them less integral part of the sun.

Are these radiations of God separate entities? Are you saying that these "radiations" are uncreated, unconscious, separate entities from God that yearn for existence? Do you realize how convoluted and self-contradictory that idea is? It is a ludicrously convoluted hypothetical gymnastics. It just doesn't work. While it is a creative concept, but it just does not work. I think you will need to either rework your current model or create a new one.

Hi again. I do know what radiations mean and I see no contradiction in what I have stated. But it is entirely your right to see contradiction and that is ok.  If the sun and its rays  is not a good analogy for you, then consider this. The neurones of the human brain continuously produce brain waves as electrical impulses which can be measured with an EEG. Are the brain waves the same and inseparable from the brain. Is the brain dependent on the brain waves or can the brain waves produce or transform into a brain? The only way to show that the brain waves and the neurones,  the stars and its radiations are one and the same thing is for you to provide just one evidence where the ray of the sun became a star or where an electrical impulse captured with an EEG transformed into a neuron.

Jenwitemi:

The clay and the Potter, these are two separate entities(if i may use that word). A clay does not emanate from a potter, it is completely separate from him, existing alongside him or her. So clays don't yearn for existence because they already exist and are inanimate, and neither do clays yearn to be formed into something. That yearning comes from the potter him/herself out of one need or the other. No, it does not work, but nice try, though.

Again, if the clay and the Potter does not convey to you the picture I am trying to paint, then consider this. Craig Venter has recently "created" a bacterium that is self replicating and not inanimate. I ask you if Craig Venter and his synthetic bacteria are one and the same or that the synthetic bacteria is a part of Craig Venter. Can the synthetic bacterium transform into Craig Venter? Can Craig venter still be in existence if he introduces a sucide gene into his synthetic bacteria that destroy the synthetic organism? Stay blessed.