vaxx:
Apology accepted

Mmmmmm what a relief. Why can't that budaatum guy learn from you ?

vaxx:
you should know it is not in my habbit calling names. I rather give sample.

But if I must do so because of this topic. I will rather wish you write to this two very anti- Darwin. They both wrote a book name “What Darwin got wrong” by Jerry Fodor and Massimo Piattelli-Malmarini, the two dude both claim they are “card-carrying atheists”. A Google search should tell you much.

Following are two quotes criticising their work:

"At the beginning of their book, they proudly claim to be atheists. Perhaps so. But my suspicion is that, like those scorned Christians, Fodor and Piattelli-Palmarini just cannot stomach the idea that humans might just be organisms, no better than the rest of the living world. We have to be special, superior to other denizens of Planet Earth. Christians are open in their beliefs that humans are special and explaining them lies beyond the scope of science. I just wish that our authors were a little more open that this is their view too."

"Because they are prominent in their own fields, some readers may suppose that they are authorities on evolution who have written a profound and important book. They aren't, and it isn't."

vaxx:
Another famous atheist philosopher named ""Thomas Nagel"" examined the logic (or lack thereof) within Darwinian evolution and physicalism in general. His book is called “Mind & Cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature is Almost Certainly False”.

Nagel seems to be arguing between intelligent design and creation science, claiming , "ID is very different from creation science," a distinction many atheist would not make nor agree with and which garners him support from the id'ers. The notion that a designer exists is a contrary position to atheism, so his claim to being an atheist would be contested and appropriately has been.

vaxx:
Your rebuttal to this extreme mention individual will serve the society better than the atheist here on nairaland. With all due respect. I actually do not think all the so called ":athiest " on nairaland have duely convince themselves enough. Maybe some stands out anyway.

Yes, atheists come in all sorts, as I've continously pointed out my self. "It's not as if atheists are all indoctrinated by the same ideas".

Darwin's exposition of Natural Selection has gone through a lot of revision since he wrote about it. Even he knew his work would evolve, which is exactly the point.

Glycolysis:

I was rude & arrogant, watches porn movies & masturbates to them. Which I acknowledged.

I went to our then chapel in school at night ,all alone...went to the altar,all I was saying is God forgive me & show me yourself...I want an experience with you..I don't just want to live in the believe that sciences have the solution to my quest.

Do you know what ??...ONLY MY BLOOD & MY CONSCIOUS CAN BEAR ME WITNESS TO THESE EVENT THAT HAPPENED LONG AGO IN MY LIFE ;

I felt a present ,not just a present,a present that my whole body was shivering ! I feel on the floor & wept like a baby .. I cried like ,I can't explain it...

My whole life just came in a flash to my eyes ; I was actually not "saved" ! ...I wept ,I wept & I wept .. I felt a powerful present ! It's no hallucinations !

I believe that you had a very intense emotional experience and felt everything you said you felt, but how did you come to the conclusion that it was not a hallucination? Hallucinations feel real to the people who experience them. It’s often hard to convince mental patients that the voices in their head are not real, because to them the voices sound totally real. You didn’t even hear or see anything, you just “felt a presence” after working yourself into a frenzy. That’s nothing jor.

After that day experience, my very self changed .
I became more interested in studying the Bible...
I stopped porns & masturbations I have always struggled with in life ...not of my own accords..I can't still explain how it happened till date..
My behaviour ? Classmates were shock .. When I went home,my mothers could not believe how I changed TOTALLY...Me ? I. could not believe these is me,Victor, of all people .

The overnight change in your behavior was due to your belief that the creator of the universe had personally paid you a visit and even touched you. Your desire to maintain this relationship gave you the willpower to stop the vices which you felt he would not like. You were obsessed with spiritual things and this left little or no time to engage in your vices.

It is very similar what happens when a beautiful woman who is far out of a man’s league shows romantic interest in him. Overnight, he develops a strong desire to improve every aspect of himself so he can keep her.

Though with time,I must admit, I could not continue to pray over & over again ....I couldn't continue to live according to the Bible principle..and with time ; I went back to my very old self again ,even till date . I won't lie about that...

Every relationship has a honeymoon period. During that period, you strive to manifest the best version of yourself to your lover. But it doesn’t last forever.

But that singular experience, provided me with MORE evidence that there is a supernatural being that oversees human affairs ....

No, even if your experience was “real” and not a hallucination, which we have no reason to believe, it only provides you with evidence that there exists an intoxicating presence which is capable of motivating you to improve your lifestyle for a short period of time.

Will these hold as an evidence ? No,to you...what if I lied that I experienced what I did not experience ?

I believe your story but your interpretation of your experience is the problem.

You thought God wanted to have a personal relationship with you, so you got obsessed with God’s things for a while. If the celebrity you sexually adore most in the world (Jessica Alba? just guessing) approached you and said “I want to be yours but you have to do A, B, C and stop doing X, Y and Z in order to have me” it would have the same effect.

frank317:


lies

Lies Please mention one single thing that atheists agreed upon as standard for themselves and perhaps others to consider as a necessity!

Seun:

I believe that you had a very intense emotional experience and felt everything you said you felt, but how did you come to the conclusion that it was not a hallucination? Hallucinations feel real to the people who experience them. It’s often hard to convince mental patients that the voices in their head are not real, because to them the voices sound totally real. You didn’t even hear or see anything, you just “felt a presence” after working yourself into a frenzy. That’s nothing jor.


The overnight change in your behavior was due to your belief that the creator of the universe had personally paid you a visit and even touched you. Your desire to maintain this relationship gave you the willpower to stop the vices which you felt he would not like. You were obsessed with spiritual things and this left little or no time to engage in your vices.

It is very similar what happens when a beautiful woman who is far out of a man’s league shows romantic interest in him. Overnight, he develops a strong desire to improve every aspect of himself so he can keep her.


Every relationship has a honeymoon period. During that period, you strive to manifest the best version of yourself to your lover. But it doesn’t last forever.


No, even if your experience was “real” and not a hallucination, which we have no reason to believe, it only provides you with evidence that there exists an intoxicating presence which is capable of motivating you to improve your lifestyle for a short period of time.

I believe your story but your interpretation of your experience is the problem.

You thought God wanted to have a personal relationship with you, so you got obsessed with God’s things for a while. If the celebrity you sexually adore most in the world (Jessica Alba? just guessing) approached you and said “I want to be yours but you have to do A, B, C and stop doing X, Y and Z in order to have me” it would have the same effect.

Lol... Thanks for you view.
I suffered hallucinations then ??.....I knew it will be all you could come up with.

I repeat, an experience I had that night was NEVER a hallucinations of any .
No word can describe what I experienced that very night in the chapel....yea,I did not see any Supernatural Being.
But I felt a present that got me shaking & fell on the floor,I was just crying... Seriously,I don't know how to explain these experience.

It's no honeymoon feeling whatsover..I was not even trying to stop my human tendencies within those days.....they just went off just like that.

Thanks once again you could feel my true emotion in the write up...I was just trying my best to explain it,but I can't .

ScienceWatch:
What low-level unregistered atheists wrongly believe is that FAITH require no evidence. Budaatum's view is indeed tradgically myopic as you quickly discovered.

The almighty Jesus provided daily evidence of science defying miracles to build the FAITH of sincere observers so that they can glorify and worship joyfully.
Today more than two thousand years later, truely anointed Christian pastors in many countries do the same.

Glycolysis, I pray that the proof that God gave you by the radical miraculous change you personally experienced will be protected by the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus sends you as a sheep among wolves who's sole propose is to rip and rend your incredible connection to God through the Jesus. Sir, always remember Jesus loving warnings concerning this. You are walking through the valley of the shadow of death.

I won't even respond to his mentions again ....
I don't gain anything from an interaction with him....just argument & argument that I don't see logic in...
Good evening....

vaxx:
when there is no question, then there is no science. Science is very inquisitive. She never relent....
Always wanted to know more.

Regarding evolution theory, it has no logical “holes”. None. Not even one. Zero. Every single “hole” that the liars have put on apologetic website and out there in the corporeal world have put out are either blatantly deceptive for the sake of fooling people or are ignorantly deceptive on account of not having the proper information. Take your pick. There is no debate in the scientific community regarding it. What is left to know in details are in some other disciplines like paleontology, geology, genetics and developmental biology.. And this is thoroughly been researched till date.

Even Darwin could see that science was making new discoveries every day, and he knew that this work would continue into the indefinite future. So he was confident that some day the mechanisms that made natural selection possible would be discovered. And of course he was right.

And the most interesting thing, it does not take God away.. because God is not in the gap.it only established God work in everything discover and yet to be discovered...it validate the blueprint of God. Hope this help.

Wow ....a nice dimension from you..
Helped ...of course.
Thanks for the observation on your part.... & input.
Just learned something from your write up.

Good evening..

Glycolysis:

I won't even respond to his mentions again ....
I don't gain anything from an interaction with him....just argument & argument that I don't see logic in...

This topics heading is, "What is Atheism". Examine the responds you are getting and know that you are having a real life experience of the mockery that is atheism.

Glycolysis:

I repeat, an experience I had that night was NEVER a hallucinations of any .
No word can describe what I experienced that very night in the chapel....yea,I did not see any Supernatural Being.
But I felt a presence that got me shaking & fell on the floor,I was just crying... Seriously,I don't know how to explain these experience.

It's no honeymoon feeling whatsover..I was not even trying to stop my human tendencies within those days.....they just went off just like that.

Thanks once again you could feel my true emotion in the write up...I was just trying my best to explain it,but I can't .

You did a great job explaining sir. Did you read the horrible Atheists Training Manual that was reposted by Butterflyleo on WinnerO1's topic ? The 30 lessons in there is an exact reflection of the cruel tactics you experienced here.

I believe you. The type of spiritual experience you had can never be associated with hallucinations. Don't ever be fooled. Study the real life spiritual experiences of a global audience daily 24hrs per day, 7 days per week on Emmanuel TV.

Because I could examine hundreds of other peoples before and after testimonies live, it greatly increase my faith.

The presence you felt, then the dramatic positive changes prove that it was a Godly experience. An experience in the LIGHT.
If you felt a presence then had bad negative changes it proves that you are demonically attacked.
If on the other hand you were hallucinating, you would experience no change.

Seun:
Have you noticed that religious apologists always pretend that they don't understand what atheism means? No matter how many times you tell them that atheism is simply the absence of belief in God, they will continue to define it as the position of being 100% certain that no God exists.

so atheists were never truly 100% sure of their position as christians are 100% of their own?

That's quite interesting

Seun:
Glycolysis, thanks for sharing your personal experience with us. I will comment on it later.

I think you should spend lesser time arguing about the existence (or non-existence) of God. I feel it is sucking your energy. Believe me.

Glycolysis:
I suffered hallucinations then ??.....I knew it will be all you could come up with.
I repeat, an experience I had that night was NEVER a hallucinations of any.

You keep asserting that the “presence” you felt wasn’t a hallucination. What makes you so sure of this, knowing that hallucinations often look, sound and feel real to the people experiencing them?

No word can describe what I experienced that very night in the chapel....yea,I did not see any Supernatural Being.
But I felt a present that got me shaking & fell on the floor,I was just crying... Seriously,I don't know how to explain these experience.

Michael Jackson fans used to cry and faint during his concerts. If the natural presence of MJ could cause girls to faint, it’s not surprising that believing that you’d been personally visited and touched by the Creator of the universe would lead to a similarly intense emotional reaction.

It's no honeymoon feeling whatsover..I was not even trying to stop my human tendencies within those days.....they just went off just like that.

If this is true, why didn't it last? Did the transformative power of God get exhausted?

Seun:

You keep asserting that the “presence” you felt wasn’t a hallucination. What makes you so sure of this, knowing that hallucinations often look, sound and feel real to the people experiencing them?


Michael Jackson fans used to cry and faint during his concerts. If the natural presence of MJ could cause girls to faint, it’s not surprising that believing that you’d been personally visited and touched by the Creator of the universe would lead to a similarly intense emotional reaction.


If this is true, why didn't it last? Did God's chakra transformative power get exhausted?


I don't argue for the sake of arguing; I seek to change minds. It’s probably the most meaningful thing I get to do. I don't spend much time on it.

Alright sir....
Thanks for your view....

ScienceWatch:
You did a great job explaining sir. Did you read the horrible Atheists Training Manual that was reposted by Butterflyleo on WinnerO1's topic ? The 30 lessons in there is an exact reflection of the cruel tactics you experienced here.

I believe you. The type of spiritual experience you had can never be associated with hallucinations. Don't ever be fooled. Study the real life spiritual experiences of a global audience daily 24hrs per day, 7 days per week on Emmanuel TV.

Because I could examine hundreds of other peoples before and after testimonies live, it greatly increase my faith.

The presence you felt, then the dramatic positive changes prove that it was a Godly experience. An experience in the LIGHT.
If you felt a presence then had bad negative changes it proves that you are demonically attacked.
If on the other hand you were hallucinating, you would experience no change.

You seem to be the only one that could really understand me in regard to what happened that night...
They are just telling me hallucinations, for what ... As if I don't know what hallucination is...
An experience that as I continued to get "closer" in my prayer & Bible study,I was even speaking in tongue ?... And someone tell me it was just a hallucination .. Though,the speaking in tongue did not happen that night..but within those period.. And I still felt the same present over the cause of that period..
But with time,I must admit,I could not pray again & read the Bible that much,hence I lost the experience... I couldn't speak in tongue again....even till now.
Even if I force myself to do the same,speak in tongue,I couldn't ..Even if I fake it,it still don't carry an effect I felt then....

And someone is telling me it was hallucination ... I swear with my life ,it's no hallucination .

I won't even try convince anyone & anybody again....just believe whatever you want to believe.
I know I felt a present within those period..not just a present,but a very powerful present that got my body shaking uncontrollable...










I felt a Supernatural Being.....

If you want to tell me it was not a Supernatural being I felt,pls don't tell me it was hallucination ...

If you tell me the experience I had was not an encounter with a Supernatural Being,but NOT a case of hallucination, it will be MORE logical to me....

Hallucination ..... Anybody got it wrong there !
I can 2000000000% ,if any stuff like that exist,that I experience an encounter with a Supernatural Being !!
If it was devil or God or Allah,I don't know...but from my experience, I could tell I met a Supernatural Being that changed my life ,POSITIVELY..within those period...of my ACTIVE study of the Bible & prayer from the Bible...

BUT IT CAN'T BE THE DEVIL,IF HE HAS THE
PERSONALITY HE WAS ATTRIBUTED WITH.....

And it happened due to my quest & study with the Bible,with a zeal to know these God,personally...

ScienceWatch:
This topics heading is, "What is Atheism". Examine the responds you are getting and know that you are having a real life experience of the mockery that is atheism.

I get your point... Thanks.

Good evening sir...

Atheism is a system of forcing yourself to hold the belief that God doesn't exist in your brain. Sometimes you see evidence of otherwise, yet you still argue and rationalize the evidence to suit your delusion.

Atheism is the most terrible and most foolish thing ever.

Glycolysis:

Lol... Thanks for you view.
I suffered hallucinations then ??.....I knew it will be all you could come up with.

I repeat, an experience I had that night was NEVER a hallucinations of any .
No word can describe what I experienced that very night in the chapel....yea,I did not see any Supernatural Being.
But I felt a present that got me shaking & fell on the floor,I was just crying... Seriously,I don't know how to explain these experience.

It's no honeymoon feeling whatsover..I was not even trying to stop my human tendencies within those days.....they just went off just like that.

Thanks once again you could feel my true emotion in the write up...I was just trying my best to explain it,but I can't .

We all know what 'ojuju kalaba' is right??. It's that imaginary demon our parents scare us with when we were little.
Now, I remember a night when I was 7yrs old, it was dark and I used to have this huge phobia for darkness & coupled with the fact that my mum just threatened us outside with the 'ojuju', she asked me to go pick something inside for her but I started crying then she threatened to spank me so I obeyed her.
Guess what I encountered when I got I inside, I saw the 'ojuju' vividly! It looked so real and terrifying that I couldn't move or do anything for a very long time until I summoned the courage to at least scream! I could have sworn with my whole life then that the demon was real and that it wanted to kill me
Now, Be the judge , is ojuju real or fictitious??

It's simple psychology, you actually experienced what you wanted to experience and it just doesn't prove anything .

The way you think you've had spiritual encounter with the Abrahamic God is the same way an osun worshipper thinks she has had an encounter with the goddess, likewise a Buddhist or a sango worshipper.
The truth is, even if i decide to worship my water bottle and i put my whole heart into praying to the water bottle, I would spiritually encounter the spirit of the water bottle as long as I believe in it, isn't it funny??

Rilwayne001:
Atheism is a system of forcing yourself to hold the belief that God doesn't exist in your brain. Sometimes you see evidence of otherwise, yet you still argue and rationalize the evidence to suit your delusion.

Atheism is the most terrible and most foolish thing ever.

I want atheists to tell me where actually life starts from? And what is actually the origin of atom? Who created it?

[/color][color=#006600]Atheism is believe born out of frustration and by questioning answers. People who has being depending on God but come year in come year out no answer. They are forced to ask question about the existence of being they have been praying to. Atheism is also born out of logical reasoning.

Sufisunni:
I want atheists to tell me where actually life starts from? And what is actually the origin of atom? Who created it?

They'll tell you it's as a result of some cosmic accident.

Seun:

Do you believe that moin-moin causes cancer? No. This is not to say that you are certain that moin moin doesn’t cause cancer, but until you read a medical report or study from a reputable organization which links moin-moin to cancer, you’ll continue to eat it and enjoy every bite.

It’s a position of living your life without any concerns about what God may or may not want until someone proves that he even exists. Atheists are doubting Thomases. Thomas wasn’t certain that Jesus had not risen from the dead, but he didn’t believe the claim until he 'saw Jesus'.

You speak of agnosticism here, not atheism. The question about moinmoin causing cancer can't be "no". Not when you immediately said "until medical journal....". "i don't know" or "i doubt" is the right and logical answer. This describes agnosticism!

*Ask atheist, do you believe that God(moin moin) caused the existence of life?

*Atheist will respond, by demanding for evidence to support such claim, before à "yes" or "no" response can arise.

*agnostist will respond, by saying "i don't know and can't possibly know".

Difference.....

Atheists ask for evidence of claims
Agnostist doubts claims

Abiiiike:


We all know what 'ojuju kalaba' is right??. It's that imaginary demon our parents scare us with when we were little.
Now, I remember a night when I was 7yrs old, it was dark and I used to have this huge phobia for darkness & coupled with the fact that my mum just threatened us outside with the 'ojuju', she asked me to go pick something inside for her but I started crying then she threatened to spank me so I obeyed her.
Guess what I encountered when I got I inside, I saw the 'ojuju' vividly! It looked so real and terrifying that I couldn't move or do anything for a very long time until I summoned the courage to at least scream! I could have sworn with my whole life then that the demon was real and that it wanted to kill me
Now, Be the judge , is ojuju real or fictitious??

It's simple psychology, you actually experienced what you wanted to experience and it just doesn't prove anything .

The way you think you've had spiritual encounter with the Abrahamic God is the same way an osun worshipper thinks she has had an encounter with the goddess, likewise a Buddhist or a sango worshipper.
The truth is, even if i decide to worship my water bottle and i put my whole heart into praying to the water bottle, I would spiritually encounter the spirit of the water bottle as long as I believe in it, isn't it funny??

OK....

Humchi:
Okay, what if there are undiscovered proves to be discovered in the next 2 years about God existence, where do you think your soul would be if you die before it's been proven?

1. My soul will be in the same place that your soul will be if a different religion from the one you follow turns out to be the true religion.
2. People have been trying to prove Gods existence for thousands of years without any success. Success in the next 2 years is very unlikely.

Akiintom:
Difference.....

Atheists ask for evidence of claims
Agnostist doubts claims

So agnostics don’t ask for evidence of claims? And atheists don’t doubt claims?

Rilwayne001:
Atheism is a system of forcing yourself to hold the belief that God doesn't exist in your brain. Sometimes you see evidence of otherwise, yet you still argue and rationalize the evidence to suit your delusion.

I don’t hold a belief that God doesn’t exist. I merely reject the claims of God's existence. When a judge finds a defendant not guilty, it doesn’t mean he's innocent. It means the prosecution hasn’t provided enough evidence to prove the defendant's guilt beyond any reasonable doubt. I cannot rule out the existence of a God who doesn’t interfere in our affairs and is hiding from us because he wants us to leave him alone. But I won’t hold a belief in the existence of even that God until someone finds a way to lure him out of hiding and prove his existence to us.

Seun:
So agnostics don’t ask for evidence of claims? And atheists don’t doubt claims?

i think what he meant was agnostics aren't sure of whether God exists or not.

Seun:

I don’t hold a belief that God doesn’t exist. I merely reject the claims of God's existence. When a judge finds a defendant not guilty, it doesn’t mean he's innocent. It means the prosecution hasn’t provided enough evidence to prove the defendant's guilt beyond any reasonable doubt. I cannot rule out the existence of a God who doesn’t interfere in our affairs and is hiding from us because he wants us to leave him alone. But I won’t hold a belief in the existence of even that God until someone finds a way to lure him out of hiding and prove his existence to us.

Seun:

I don’t hold a belief that God doesn’t exist. I merely reject the claims of God's existence. When a judge finds a defendant not guilty, it doesn’t mean he's innocent. It means the prosecution hasn’t provided enough evidence to prove the defendant's guilt beyond any reasonable doubt. I cannot rule out the existence of a God who doesn’t interfere in our affairs and is hiding from us because he wants us to leave him alone. But I won’t hold a belief in the existence of even that God until someone finds a way to lure him out of hiding and prove his existence to us.

You are agnostic then

Codedrock:

You are agnostic then

Yes, an agnostic atheist. Very few atheists are gnostic. We understand that absolute certainty isn’t really rational.