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Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students - Education (9) - Nairaland

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Re: Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students by HammedOlanaija(m): 6:41pm On Apr 10, 2020
anjilgreat:


You just spoke my mind. Most graduates of basic medical sciences from Nigerian Universities do not have much options in the area of jobs/career. Most of them actually wanted to study medicine & surgery but could not and were given these courses. The only options they have is either to graduate with a second class upper and write the first MB into clinicals to become doctors or go further in the career path by becoming lecturers in the basic medical science field after obtaining masters degree.

During my preclinical days, I had good lecturers both doctors and non doctors. I understand that doctors tend to lecturer these courses very well but they should not underestimate the roles played by these other lecturers that are not doctors before we start experiencing another controversial and unhealthy competition at university level just like the medical doctors and JUHESU issues at the hospital level.

In other climes, graduates of basic medical sciences are integrated into the paramedics sections of health organizations. Just like you said, I think they should just scrap out these basic medical sciences degrees from the medical schools in Nigeria since their roles are becoming under threats and almost unrecognized here in Nigeria.
After scrapping them what will you offer the graduates in those field or their undergraduates.Offer them cleaning job in your clinic??I knew it these medical students are taught to hate basic medical students.This is bad
Re: Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students by Nobody: 4:02am On Apr 11, 2020
Here we go again. Instead of these two Professionals always at each others throats, trying so hard to reignite their childish rivalry at every slightest opportunity, flexing their over bloated egos and engaging in Tom and Jerry roforofo gutter fights, thereby disgracing their generations, to go and find cutting edge medical breakthroughs or finding cure and vaccine for corona virus through rigorous research work, they are here making noise over who is the Boss. Your profession don't inspire confidence again especially here in Nigeria. Our Doctors always ignorantly and stupidly think they are better than other professional especially experienced Nurses and Pharmacists just because they spend 6 years in School, have Ministers of Health at their beckon and could maul and discredit the vital role played by other Professionals. Their desperate attempt to block other Professionals from becoming Consultants and attaining certain feats had only shown their height of insecurity and loss of vision and purpose. They are now becoming more of a politician and Business men whose only interest is in setting up of Private medical outfits while working in FG Teaching Hospitals, engaging in untoward practices for maximum gain, diverting grants for International donors and foundations to personal escrow accounts. Even Politician no longer trust the dedication and commitment to their profession, reason for high rate in medical tourism and large capital outflow from Nigeria.

Do I begin to mention cases of gross incompetence of Doctors I am privy to. The embarrassing cases of carelessness that lead to death and irreparable injuries to patients and terminal damages done to them in a desperate attempt at cover ups? The many oversights, recklessness and deliberate unprofessional conducts of these people and many cases of corruption perpetrated by our Medical Experts in Teaching Hospitals by CMDs and High Ranking HODs.

You guys should go and work on your profession because nobody trust Nigerian Doctors again. Let me state here there are good, competent, committed ones among you but we both know that they are fewer partly because of the low remunerations, hectic work load, and unfavourable condition of service( which many other Professionals endure anyways). Those who are using you guys are doing that because they got no choice and stop further bringing yourselves into more scrutiny, ignominy by exposing your unclothedness in the public abeg.
Re: Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students by Jaideyone(m): 2:46pm On Apr 16, 2020
HammedOlanaija:

Actually am an undergraduate in pharmacology department and doesn't seem to understand when people keep saying pharmacology work as medical sales rep.Pls what do medical sales rep do precisely because as it sounds it involves maths.And I don't think we ever take a time to study further maths and then secondly what do they sell??if I guess right you people are talking about selling medical devices like incubator,sterilizers,medical gloves etc except drugs since pharmacologist are not allowed to sell drugs in Nigeria.
who told you Pharmacologists are not allowed to sell drugs in Nigeria? same thing I've been doing and making a living from since 2013? if you are studying pharmacology you should have an idea of the career prospects and start planning for where you can fit in.
even biological sciences graduates and doing well in the drug field now with proper training
Re: Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students by nurain150(m): 1:50am On Dec 08, 2021
You guys are not serious, it's like saying MBBS should teach MBBS Physiology.

PHARMACY should teach themselves Physiology.

MLS and physio too
Re: Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students by nurain150(m): 1:51am On Dec 08, 2021
maryjames9:
Here we go again. Instead of these two Professionals always at each others throats, trying so hard to reignite their childish rivalry at every slightest opportunity, flexing their over bloated egos and engaging in Tom and Jerry roforofo gutter fights, thereby disgracing their generations, to go and find cutting edge medical breakthroughs or finding cure and vaccine for corona virus through rigorous research work, they are here making noise over who is the Boss. Your profession don't inspire confidence again especially here in Nigeria. Our Doctors always ignorantly and stupidly think they are better than other professional especially experienced Nurses and Pharmacists just because they spend 6 years in School, have Ministers of Health at their beckon and could maul and discredit the vital role played by other Professionals. Their desperate attempt to block other Professionals from becoming Consultants and attaining certain feats had only shown their height of insecurity and loss of vision and purpose. They are now becoming more of a politician and Business men whose only interest is in setting up of Private medical outfits while working in FG Teaching Hospitals, engaging in untoward practices for maximum gain, diverting grants for International donors and foundations to personal escrow accounts. Even Politician no longer trust the dedication and commitment to their profession, reason for high rate in medical tourism and large capital outflow from Nigeria.

Do I begin to mention cases of gross incompetence of Doctors I am privy to. The embarrassing cases of carelessness that lead to death and irreparable injuries to patients and terminal damages done to them in a desperate attempt at cover ups? The many oversights, recklessness and deliberate unprofessional conducts of these people and many cases of corruption perpetrated by our Medical Experts in Teaching Hospitals by CMDs and High Ranking HODs.

You guys should go and work on your profession because nobody trust Nigerian Doctors again. Let me state here there are good, competent, committed ones among you but we both know that they are fewer partly because of the low remunerations, hectic work load, and unfavourable condition of service( which many other Professionals endure anyways). Those who are using you guys are doing that because they got no choice and stop further bringing yourselves into more scrutiny, ignominy by exposing your unclothedness in the public abeg.

No cap PHARMACY consultancy is now herre
Re: Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students by nurain150(m): 1:52am On Dec 08, 2021
Jaideyone:
yes abroad. you still haven't told me how separation is there in Nigeria where you open a clinic and put one ND holder in charge of the pharmacy. it's not a crime for one ND holder to be in charge of your Pharmacy but it's a crime for the pharmacist to prescribe!!!

that was why I raised that issue in the post you quoted

And it's a crime for inhouse Dispensing lol.

Using school cert to dispenese in private clinics.
Re: Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students by Polchiz(m): 11:06am On Aug 05, 2023
Gr8amechi:

You didn't get it.
Now in biochemistry it has very diverse parts and let's say you do clinical or medical biochemistry, and a medical doctor does same to PhD which do you think would teach it better??
Now apart from that if you have gone through medical school you would understand, some of the none doctors victimize their students because of "beef"for medical school.
It's simply enough, Let someone with mbbs and a PhD handle the field, those none doctors can't teach other students within the college of medicine
Beef?
How much is the salary of a Doctor?
The title you have, a PhD holder also has it.
I am a brewer (Manager) in one of the breweries in Nigeria. I studied Biochemistry up to Master's level and my dissertation was on hypertension.
I was in the hospital for check up and the Doctor was shocked when we started discussing hypertension. With all due respect, his knowledge is shallow.
Doctors are fast becoming jack of all trades and master of none. And they do this out of pride. They want to have the final say in every health issues.
In every profession, there is division of labour. As a biochemist, a ventrinary Doctor taught me physiology, a pharmacist taught me Biostatistics and of course a Chemist taught me chemistry till my final year. I respect every profession and I am willing to learn from anybody.
How can a Doctor combine the challenges of Clinical practice and Lecturing/Research?
There is this pride in every medical student and they believe nobody is more intelligent than them and therefore cannot teach them. This is why they fail.
Well, they are only god in the hospital. We don't even know that they exist here.
Re: Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students by Polchiz(m): 11:13am On Aug 05, 2023
capitalzero:


on PhD matter, mdcn/npmcn/wacp/nma are on it with nuc. soon, medical students will be taught by doctors only that is best way of producing sound doctors. know that. nothing can change that. doctors will continue to prescribe drugs while pharmacists will continue to dispense and point to prescription errors. But tell pharmacists to stop prescribing and dispensing drugs in their stores. It is illegal to do the same.
If you admire lecturers, leave the hospital and get a PhD and lecture.
Re: Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students by Gr8amechi: 11:46pm On Aug 05, 2023
Polchiz:

Beef?
How much is the salary of a Doctor?
The title you have, a PhD holder also has it.
I am a brewer (Manager) in one of the breweries in Nigeria. I studied Biochemistry up to Master's level and my dissertation was on hypertension.
I was in the hospital for check up and the Doctor was shocked when we started discussing hypertension. With all due respect, his knowledge is shallow.
Doctors are fast becoming jack of all trades and master of none. And they do this out of pride. They want to have the final say in every health issues.
In every profession, there is division of labour. As a biochemist, a ventrinary Doctor taught me physiology, a pharmacist taught me Biostatistics and of course a Chemist taught me chemistry till my final year. I respect every profession and I am willing to learn from anybody.
How can a Doctor combine the challenges of Clinical practice and Lecturing/Research?
There is this pride in every medical student and they believe nobody is more intelligent than them and therefore cannot teach them. This is why they fail.
Well, they are only god in the hospital. We don't even know that they exist here.
Your response is that of ignorance.

Let me enlighten you.

First the doctor you met and was educating him or her would like be a young general practitioner, try and meet a cardiologist or even a physician registrar let's see if you would educate him.

Secondly for the statement you made about how to combine research and lecturing and clinical practice, this is another error or rather ignorance.
Medicine is very broad and one can combine both clinical practice, research and lecturing depending on the field.

Let me ask, would a surgeon who is actively performing surgeries be a better fit to research and teach new methods of surgery or someone who doesn't even know how the OR looks like?

Also do you know that one can be a medical doctor and specialise in clinical pharmacology?

I will urge you to take a few time and Google and see the vast areas a doctor can specialise.

For the issue of lecturing, the thing is you guys have very low self-esteem and take everything and anything about doctors too personal.

If I ask you, would it be better for a practicing civil engineer to teach civil engineering or someone who has never been to the field?

Imagine going to law school and being taught by people who never saw the four walls of the court.

Nigeria educational system is thrash today because we don't engage professionals to teach their field this end up providing just academic graduates without any real life applications.

Imagine if someone studying economics is actually being taught by a practicing economics, you would learn real life applications rather than textbook stuff.

My brother, keep your hate and disdain for doctors.

We all should be pushing for professionals to teach and train professionals.

There is no way even a professor of biochemist can understand the clinical application of kreb cycle without having a first hand experience or management.

1 Like

Re: Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students by Polchiz(m): 7:13am On Aug 06, 2023
Gr8amechi:

Your response is that of ignorance.

Let me enlighten you.

First the doctor you met and was educating him or her would like be a young general practitioner, try and meet a cardiologist or even a physician registrar let's see if you would educate him.

Secondly for the statement you made about how to combine research and lecturing and clinical practice, this is another error or rather ignorance.
Medicine is very broad and one can combine both clinical practice, research and lecturing depending on the field.

Let me ask, would a surgeon who is actively performing surgeries be a better fit to research and teach new methods of surgery or someone who doesn't even know how the OR looks like?

Also do you know that one can be a medical doctor and specialise in clinical pharmacology?

I will urge you to take a few time and Google and see the vast areas a doctor can specialise.

For the issue of lecturing, the thing is you guys have very low self-esteem and take everything and anything about doctors too personal.

If I ask you, would it be better for a practicing civil engineer to teach civil engineering or someone who has never been to the field?

Imagine going to law school and being taught by people who never saw the four walls of the court.

Nigeria educational system is thrash today because we don't engage professionals to teach their field this end up providing just academic graduates without any real life applications.

Imagine if someone studying economics is actually being taught by a practicing economics, you would learn real life applications rather than textbook stuff.

My brother, keep your hate and disdain for doctors.

We all should be pushing for professionals to teach and train professionals.

There is no way even a professor of biochemist can understand the clinical application of kreb cycle without having a first hand experience or management.
From your epistle, it is obvious that you are still a student and in case you are not, I pity your patients.
Your write up is more of emotion than realities.
Re: Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students by Gr8amechi: 7:23am On Aug 06, 2023
Polchiz:

From your epistle, it is obvious that you are still a student and in case you are not, I pity your patients.
Your write up is more of emotion than realities.
You could simply refute them.

You are not a medical doctor and have no clue what it means.

Kindly face and focus on your profession.

I still maintain, you can't compare being trained by a person practicing the profession to someone who has no idea what the profession is about,
Take your time and educate yourself about medicine and clinical practice it will help heal you.
Re: Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students by Polchiz(m): 8:17am On Aug 06, 2023
Gr8amechi:

You could simply refute them.

You are not a medical doctor and have no clue what it means.

Kindly face and focus on your profession.

I still maintain, you can't compare being trained by a person practicing the profession to someone who has no idea what the profession is about,
Take your time and educate yourself about medicine and clinical practice it will help heal you.
Young man, there is a reason why they are called Basic Medical Sciences. In the developed world that you made reference to, you have to obtain a degree in any of the basic medical sciences before you can be admitted to study Medicine or Surgery.
There is no where in the world where a medical student is trained by only physicians.

A Biochemistry/Physiology/Anatomy lecturer is not expected to lecture you until you graduate and become a licensed doctor.

The expectation and of course what is been done before doctors started exhibiting their insecure attitude is that, you learn the basics from 100 level to at least 300 level.

I am sure that the best medical doctor in your school was taught basic medical sciences by non-doctor lecturers.

You don't expect a physician to start teaching you the Biochemical bases for diabetes or the glycolytic pathway. It simply means you didn't learn the basics.

The doctor that lectured me physiology called a professor of Biochemistry his mentor.

Medical School is not an exclusive place for only doctors. One of you who share your idea is now a masters student in Biochemistry. He is always arguing that Biochemistry lecturers should not teach their students. However, the knowledge he is getting and which he intends to impact to medical students is coming from same Biochemistry lecturers.

Since you started using only doctors to lecture medical students, what has been your performance in international examination?

Can I have the deployment?

The professors of medicine who now lecture you Biochemistry/Physiology/Anatomy were taught this same courses by non-doctor lecturers. What an irony.

In conclusion, I am not a doctor and I don't desire to be one. I have doctors as friends and I respect them a lot.
Re: Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students by Polchiz(m): 8:40am On Aug 06, 2023
Gr8amechi:

You could simply refute them.

You are not a medical doctor and have no clue what it means.

Kindly face and focus on your profession.

I still maintain, you can't compare being trained by a person practicing the profession to someone who has no idea what the profession is about,
Take your time and educate yourself about medicine and clinical practice it will help heal you.
This is requirements for admission into Harvard Medical School:
https://meded.hms.harvard.edu/admissions-eligibility-requirements
Re: Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students by Gr8amechi: 10:46am On Aug 06, 2023
Polchiz:

Young man, there is a reason why they are called Basic Medical Sciences. In the developed world that you made reference to, you have to obtain a degree in any of the basic medical sciences before you can be admitted to study Medicine or Surgery.
There is no where in the world where a medical student is trained by only physicians.

A Biochemistry/Physiology/Anatomy lecturer is not expected to lecture you until you graduate and become a licensed doctor.

The expectation and of course what is been done before doctors started exhibiting their insecure attitude is that, you learn the basics from 100 level to at least 300 level.

I am sure that the best medical doctor in your school was taught basic medical sciences by non-doctor lecturers.

You don't expect a physician to start teaching you the Biochemical bases for diabetes or the glycolytic pathway. It simply means you didn't learn the basics.

The doctor that lectured me physiology called a professor of Biochemistry his mentor.

Medical School is not an exclusive place for only doctors. One of you who share your idea is now a masters student in Biochemistry. He is always arguing that Biochemistry lecturers should not teach their students. However, the knowledge he is getting and which he intends to impact to medical students is coming from same Biochemistry lecturers.

Since you started using only doctors to lecture medical students, what has been your performance in international examination?

Can I have the deployment?

The professors of medicine who now lecture you Biochemistry/Physiology/Anatomy were taught this same courses by non-doctor lecturers. What an irony.

In conclusion, I am not a doctor and I don't desire to be one. I have doctors as friends and I respect them a lot.
Like I said get yourself educated and informed about a topic before your delve into what you don't know.

The developed country you referred to is only the USA, it's only the USA that operates medicine in the format you said.
In the USA, you first attend college or university to study any related science course, after which you now seek admission into medical school.
Now do you know that in USA Medical school they are also taught basic medical science?
Do you know that they are taught medical biochemistry, physiology, behavioural sciences and the rest?
This is why USMLE step one is basic sciences.

Get the points, for a medical doctor to lecture medical biochemistry he must first do a master and PhD in medical biochemistry, you don't carry a consultant physician to come and teach physiology if he doesn't major there.

Let me educate you further, while in medical school one of my lecturer in histology is a medical doctor, a PhD holder in anatomy, also has a fellowship in histopathology.
Hence he is both a histopathologist and anatomist, there is no way you who just studied anatomy and did PhD can understand the correlation of histology like he will.
Also I had a professor of neuroanatomy who first is a medical doctor before doing his master's and PhD.
Furthermore there is a lecturer who is a consultant gynecologist and also has his master and PhD in reproductive physiology, tell me how you can compare the knowledge impact of someone who is a specialist in fetomaternal medicine and also an authority in reproductive physiology to someone who just majored in physiology and never sees real life patients.?

Like I said again, get yourself informed.

No one will be brought to lecturer medical biochemistry just because he is a medical doctor.

For you to lecture in an of the nonclinical classes you must hold a master and PhD in that particular course and do loads of research.

The argument is can you compare a practicing doctor with real life experience who is into research to someone who doesn't see patients teaching same courses?
The clinical correlates will be miles apart.

When we got to clinical science many of the biochemistry that non doctors taught us were useless, their main focus is how to cram a structure that is useless, they don't understand the practical application of the clinical correlates.

There is a big difference between what's ideal which is the textbook stuff and what is obtained in clinical practice, textbooks teaches you in isolation but patients teaches you in real time, you can even see patients with multiple or complex metabolic syndrome with other things which you as a Jon doctor has never ever seen all your life, how can you even relate ?
Re: Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students by Gr8amechi: 10:48am On Aug 06, 2023
Polchiz:

This is requirements for admission into Harvard Medical School:
https://meded.hms.harvard.edu/admissions-eligibility-requirements
The USA operates a very different system from any other countries.

Nigeria practice UK and Europe systems and we have direct medical school admissions unlike the USA.

Kindly confirm.

Also when you get into USA medical school you do basic medicine courses, you can verify.
Re: Lecturers Who Are Not Doctors ‘should No Longer’ Teach Medical Students by Polchiz(m): 12:49pm On Aug 06, 2023
Gr8amechi:

Like I said get yourself educated and informed about a topic before your delve into what you don't know.

The developed country you referred to is only the USA, it's only the USA that operates medicine in the format you said.
In the USA, you first attend college or university to study any related science course, after which you now seek admission into medical school.
Now do you know that in USA Medical school they are also taught basic medical science?
Do you know that they are taught medical biochemistry, physiology, behavioural sciences and the rest?
This is why USMLE step one is basic sciences.

Get the points, for a medical doctor to lecture medical biochemistry he must first do a master and PhD in medical biochemistry, you don't carry a consultant physician to come and teach physiology if he doesn't major there.

Let me educate you further, while in medical school one of my lecturer in histology is a medical doctor, a PhD holder in anatomy, also has a fellowship in histopathology.
Hence he is both a histopathologist and anatomist, there is no way you who just studied anatomy and did PhD can understand the correlation of histology like he will.
Also I had a professor of neuroanatomy who first is a medical doctor before doing his master's and PhD.
Furthermore there is a lecturer who is a consultant gynecologist and also has his master and PhD in reproductive physiology, tell me how you can compare the knowledge impact of someone who is a specialist in fetomaternal medicine and also an authority in reproductive physiology to someone who just majored in physiology and never sees real life patients.?

Like I said again, get yourself informed.

No one will be brought to lecturer medical biochemistry just because he is a medical doctor.

For you to lecture in an of the nonclinical classes you must hold a master and PhD in that particular course and do loads of research.

The argument is can you compare a practicing doctor with real life experience who is into research to someone who doesn't see patients teaching same courses?
The clinical correlates will be miles apart.

When we got to clinical science many of the biochemistry that non doctors taught us were useless, their main focus is how to cram a structure that is useless, they don't understand the practical application of the clinical correlates.

There is a big difference between what's ideal which is the textbook stuff and what is obtained in clinical practice, textbooks teaches you in isolation but patients teaches you in real time, you can even see patients with multiple or complex metabolic syndrome with other things which you as a Jon doctor has never ever seen all your life, how can you even relate ?
I doubt if you are any doctor. You enjoy beating around the bush instead of going straight to the point.

See the way you are contradicting yourself.

You talk too much and make no meaning.

How on earth did you become a doctor?

Go to UK with your SSCE and enter medical school.

Deluded little mug!

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