LordReed:


That's funny so with all your claim to knowledge you think the existence of software is undemonstrated? LMFAO! I can't even...

Since you know, show me!
It should be simple to describe the computer code in forensic examination of a physical computer.

It should be far much simpler than describing a soulor spirit

HellVictorinho:

I deciphered it.
If computers require written information to function and you can't see it ordinarily or even understand that it exists because you're not computer literate, you should also accept that you lack knowledge of souls because you can't see the hereditary information ordinarily.
And we know that this information determines how we are meant to FUNCTION as humans.
So you can't exist as a child of your human parents without this information.
And you couldn't have come from nowhere.
You were born.
As for the first human cells,I don't think they were created.
The conditions necessary for the formation of such cells must have been in place before they occurred.
The conditions necessary for the transformation of these cells in such a way that would lead to complex systems must have also been in place before they occurred.
Genes are just consequences of the presence of life-causing factors which also affect the manner in which these life-forms occur.

Hey!
I just need you to use your own rules of determination of what is real or not with the obvious (a computer) so as to determine the appropriatness of your excellent logic

LordReed:


You keep coming up with these flawed analogies. You have acknowledged that software's existence is demonstrable but come to the the conclusion that the undemonstrated spiritual realm is real. The only relevant thing here is demonstration which you are unable to supply for your spiritual realm.

Quite the opposite!
I had shown you that softwares existence is NOT demostratable please read again

shadeyinka:

Hey!
I just need you to use your own rules of determination of what is real or not with the obvious (a computer) so as to determine the appropriatness of your excellent logic

Using 'the computer analogy' to determine my logic is next to insanity.

shadeyinka:

Address the issue of "measurable physical evidence" as a proof of reality and don't put words in my mouth I didn't say

If you believe in spirits,fine.
However, the 'Possibility Of Spirit Realms' is a 'declarification'.

shadeyinka:

Address the issue of "measurable physical evidence" as a proof of reality and don't put words in my mouth I didn't say

If you believe in spirits,fine.
However, the 'Possibility Of Spirit Realms' is a 'declarification'.

LordReed:


You keep coming up with these flawed analogies. You have acknowledged that software's existence is demonstrable but come to the the conclusion that the undemonstrated spiritual realm is real. The only relevant thing here is demonstration which you are unable to supply for your spiritual realm.

Pls quote the exact phase where I admitted that the software code is dempistratable. Read again.

I have simplified it for you. Yours is to check out the fact based on an obvious scenario.

In summary:
Show me that a software code can be described in physical terms, then your argument against theists hold perfectly otherwise, it is a BIG flaw.

As far as atheists are concerned. If it is not physically demostratable, it doesn't exist.

shadeyinka:

Do not put words in my mouth I didn't say

Define your supposition named 'Soul'.

HellVictorinho:

Using 'the computer analogy' to determine my logic is next to insanity.

Trying to force theists to prove the existence of the spiritual using physical elements is thus Next to Insanity!

Your words!

shadeyinka:

Pls quote the exact phase where I admitted that the software code is dempistratable. Read again.

I have simplified it for you. Yours is to check out the fact based on an obvious scenario.

In summary:
Show me that a software code can be described in physical terms, then your argument against theists hold perfectly otherwise, it is a BIG flaw.

As far as atheists are concerned. If it is not physically demostratable, it doesn't exist.

Have you forgotten that these instructions/codes are written and the manner in which they are written can be demonstrated?

shadeyinka:

Trying to force theists to prove the existence of the spiritual using physical elements is thus Next to Insanity!

Your words!

Absolute nonsense.
Your supposition remains a supposition until the day you die.
When that day comes,you will be able to ascertain whether such possibilities can be actualized or not if there is actually an afterlife.

HellVictorinho:

Define your supposition named 'Soul'.

In lay mans term:
The soul is your internal/personal IDENTITY
It defines your
INTELLECT
EMOTION and
WILL
That is the person (inside your physical body) YOU call
ME
I

If you are to relate the soul to the known, it is simply the Operating System and Application Softwares that run the Brain (CPU) of living beings.

I have answered your question. If you need more clarity, ask your question I will answer you.

shadeyinka:


Since you know, show me!
It should be simple to describe the computer code in forensic examination of a physical computer.

It should be far much simpler than describing a soulor spirit

Demonstrate is different from show me how it looks like. You don't open up the computer innards looking for the software, you operate the computer and match the outcomes with the expectations.

This is simply what we require of you to show us as a demonstration of soul or spirit. Tell us the expectations of what the presence of spirit will indicate then show us the expected outcomes.

If you now say it does affect the physical then of what use is it and how do you know it exists?

shadeyinka:

In lay mans term:
The soul is your internal/personal IDENTITY
It defines your
INTELLECT
EMOTION and
WILL
That is the person (inside your physical body) YOU call
ME
I

If you are to relate the soul to the known, it is simply the Operating System and Application Softwares that run the Brain (CPU) of living beings.

I have answered your question. If you need more clarity, ask your question I will answer you.

You think SOUL identifies people.
Animals should also have souls then.
Animals can also make Heaven.

HellVictorinho:

Have you forgotten that these instructions/codes are written and the manner in which they are written can be demonstrated?

Then the question of WHO is important for the proof of softwares in a computer.
Generically, we call the WHO Programmer!

However, my take is:
If you have never physically met the Programmer, does it proof that computer codes do NOT exist?

HellVictorinho:

You think SOUL identifies people.
Animals should also have souls then.
Animals can also make Heaven.

Of course!
Animals have souls
Angels have souls
Humans have souls

Heaven and Hell is for Spiritual beings!

LordReed:


Demonstrate is different from show me how it looks like. You don't open up the computer innards looking for the software, you operate the computer and match the outcomes with the expectations.

This is simply what we require of you to show us as a demonstration of soul or spirit. Tell us the expectations of what the presence of spirit will indicate then show us the expected outcomes.

If you now say it does affect the physical then of what use is it and how do you know it exists?

Demonstrate is different from show me how it looks like. You don't open up a man innards looking for the software the soul and spirit, you operate the computer watch the behaviour of a man and match the outcomes with the expectations.

This is simply what we require of you to show us as a demonstration of soul or spirit computer code. Tell us the expectations of what the presence of spirit computer software will indicate then show us the expected outcomes.

If you now say it does affect the physical computer then of what use is it and how do you know it exists?

Your answer to the above if you are willing to think Critically will set you free.

HellVictorinho:

You still can't read well.
I never stated that computers can work without instructions.
I've destroyed your aims as regards this subject.

If the computer cannot work without the software how come the human can work only with the Hardware (brain etc). Even the DNA is loaded with codes and instructions.

shadeyinka:

Then the question of WHO is important for the proof of softwares in a computer.
Generically, we call the WHO Programmer!

However, my take is:
If you have never physically met the Programmer, does it proof that computer codes do NOT exist?

.
SOUL is an abstract term based on your definition.
But written instructions are physical.
You have not described the SOUL.
If you can define a system, you should be able to describe it.
We are not talking about abstracts like expressions,actions,ideas,etc.
We are talking about a system that supposedly makes it possible for these things to be demonstrated by the demonstrator.

shadeyinka:


Demonstrate is different from show me how it looks like. You don't open up a man innards looking for the software the soul and spirit, you operate the computer watch the behaviour of a man and match the outcomes with the expectations.

This is simply what we require of you to show us as a demonstration of soul or spirit computer code. Tell us the expectations of what the presence of spirit computer software will indicate then show us the expected outcomes.

If you now say it does affect the physical computer then of what use is it and how do you know it exists?

Your answer to the above if you are willing to think Critically will set you free.

LMFAO! I Just knew this what you'll resort to, an attempt to obfuscate the issue. Computer software is not the issue mister, your spiritual realm that you consistent refuse to demonstrate is.

HellVictorinho:
.
SOUL is an abstract term based on your definition.
But written instructions are physical.
You have not described the SOUL.
If you can define a system, you should be able to describe it.
We are not talking about abstracts like expressions,actions,ideas,etc.
We are talking about a system that supposedly makes it possible for this things to be demonstrated by the demonstrator.

This your answer shows that you have never written the simplest code "Hello World!"

Point of correction!
A computer software is not the written code.
A computer software does not have mass, dimension, charge etc associated with it!
A computer software is NOT tangible: Yet we know it exists because we have seen Programmers at work.
A computer code within a machine is actually not touchable, not quantifiable however, it is a distillation of the thought and will of the Programmer in a format only suitable for the hardware computer.

The soul is as the software is to a computer!

shadeyinka:

If the computer cannot work without the software how come the human can work only with the Hardware (brain etc). Even the DNA is loaded with codes and instructions.

The codes in the DNA are arrangements of certain chemical properties.
The Deoxy ribonucleic Acid is composed of life-defining structures .
But these structures are possible due to the Occurrence of Planet Earth.
As Planet Earth occurs,certain things happen, and this includes the occurrence of Life-Forms.
The Formation of the Earth millions/billions of years ago resulted in the possibility of DNA arrangements.

shadeyinka:

This your answer shows that you have never written the simplest code "Hello World!"

Point of correction!
A computer software is not the written code.
A computer software does not have mass, dimension, charge etc associated with it!
A computer software is NOT tangible: Yet we know it exists because we have seen Programmers at work.
A computer code within a machine is actually not touchable, not quantifiable however, it is a distillation of the thought and will of the Programmer in a format only suitable for the hardware computer.

The soul is as the software is to a computer!

You still can't read well.
I never stated that softwares are codes.
I indirectly stated that you can determine how these instructions are set.

LordReed:


LMFAO! I Just knew this what you'll resort to, an attempt to obfuscate the issue. Computer software is not the issue mister, your spiritual realm that you consistent refuse to demonstrate is.

You are being evasive in tackling what should be obvious.

You don't believe in the spiritual reality: is it logical that anything about it will make sense to you?

Just like if a learned man obstinacy prevents him from admitting that a computer consists of BOTH the hardware and software parts: how do you now proceed to discuss Object Oriented Programming Concepts.

Let's go from the known to the unknown.
Your atheistic theory should apply excellently to the mundane computer.

If it fails in this simple task, the magnitude of failure in the complex will be more than massive.

I am sure you've gone through the internet to find a rebutal from your normal sources....and seeing none, you want to resort back to the old rhetorics of "show me a spirit"

Ko le werk!

On a serious note:
I am not here to win an argument: I am here to stimulate you to do some critical thinking. Else, you would find yourself deciding your fate in a Pascal's Wager without thinking!

HellVictorinho:

You still can't read well.
I never stated that softwares are codes.
I indirectly stated that you can determine how these instructions are set.

Pls How?

Within the computer?
That is an impossibility!
It is impossible by any known means to measure, quantify or describe a code in a physical computer except with the same kind of tools used by the Programmer.

Pls think!
He who will do the Pascals Wager should choose with wisdom.
Think

shadeyinka:

You are being evasive in tackling what should be obvious.

You don't believe in the spiritual reality: is it logical that anything about it will make sense to you?

Just like if a learned man obstinacy prevents him from admitting that a computer consists of BOTH the hardware and software parts: how do you now proceed to discuss Object Oriented Programming Concepts.

Let's go from the known to the unknown.
Your atheistic theory should apply excellently to the mundane computer.

If it fails in this simple task, the magnitude of failure in the complex will be more than massive.

I am sure you've gone through the internet to find a rebutal from your normal sources....and seeing none, you want to resort back to the old rhetorics of "show me a spirit"

Ko le werk!

On a serious note:
I am not here to win an argument: I am here to stimulate you to do some critical thinking. Else, you would find yourself deciding your fate in a Pascal's Wager without thinking!

LMFAO! Dude the issue was never about software so the sooner you stop playing that card the sooner we can address the real issue. Right from the begin of this conversation I said the game will be to bog down the issue with your sweet sounding analogy.

All one needs to know about this, is look at how NAND flash works. The silicon substrate contains the charges necessary to record data, all of it physical processes, repeatable, measurable and demonstrable.

Your spiritual realm however continues to be an undemonstrated illusory hypothesis that even formulating what the expectations or outcomes will be cannot be stated by you.

HellVictorinho:

The codes in the DNA are arrangements of certain chemical properties.
The Deoxy ribonucleic Acid is composed of life-defining structures .
But these structures are possible due to the Occurrence of Planet Earth.
As Planet Earth occurs,certain things happen, and this includes the occurrence of Life-Forms.
The Formation of the Earth millions/billions of years ago resulted in the possibility of DNA arrangements.

Have you heard of the BIOS of a computer?
It is hardcoded software in a hardware can't you see that it mirrors slightly what the DNA is to living beings.

Even then, the BIOS I programmed by a Programmer.


Your conclusion is that by evolution, a computer can self asseble and program itself over billions of years!? .. all without a Designer and a Programmer!

I am not here to discuss evolution BUT think.

If your athistic theories cannot hold on a mundane computer, how would it hold on deeper things.

Don't play poker with your life over that which is not logically iron-cast!

I've made my point; and I'll like to go.
This is my first post in almost a year: I do not intend to be active on Nairaland.

shadeyinka:

Have you heard of the BIOS of a computer?
It is hardcoded software in a hardware can't you see that it mirrors slightly what the DNA is to living beings.

Even then, the BIOS I programmed by a Programmer.


Your conclusion is that by evolution, a computer can self asseble and program itself over billions of years!? .. all without a Designer and a Programmer!

I am not here to discuss evolution BUT think.

If your athistic theories cannot hold on a mundane computer, how would it hold on deeper things.

Don't play poker with your life over that which is not logically iron-cast!

I've made my point; and I'll like to go.
This is my first post in almost a year: I do not intend to be active on Nairaland.

Absolute nonsense.
You're comparing the origin of the computer to the origin of man.
I'm not an evolutionist.

LordReed:


LMFAO! Dude the issue was never about software so the sooner you stop playing that card the sooner we can address the real issue. Right from the begin of this conversation I said the game with be bog down the issue with your sweet sounding analogy.

All one needs to know about this, is look at how NAND flash works. The silicon substrate contains the charges necessary to record data, all of it physical processes, repeatable, measurable and demonstrable.

Your spiritual realm however continues to be an undemonstrated illusory hypothesis that even formulating what the expectations or outcomes will be cannot be stated by you.

Like an ostrich who buries it's head in the sand!
Like a fly who follows a corpse into the grave!

If you can't unravel the mundane, what business do you think you have being an expert in spiritual things to say it doesn't exist

I've made my point; and I'll like to go.
This is my first post in almost a year: I do not intend to be active on Nairaland.

Think on these things

LordReed:


LMFAO! Dude the issue was never about software so the sooner you stop playing that card the sooner we can address the real issue. Right from the begin of this conversation I said the game will be to bog down the issue with your sweet sounding analogy.

All one needs to know about this, is look at how NAND flash works. The silicon substrate contains the charges necessary to record data, all of it physical processes, repeatable, measurable and demonstrable.

Your spiritual realm however continues to be an undemonstrated illusory hypothesis that even formulating what the expectations or outcomes will be cannot be stated by you.

He is not talking about the computer's technology.
He is talking about the determiner of the computer's functions.

shadeyinka:

Pls How?

Within the computer?
That is an impossibility!
It is impossible by any known means to measure, quantify or describe a code in a physical computer except with the same kind of tools used by the Programmer.

Pls think!
He who will do the Pascals Wager should choose with wisdom.
Think

Within the computer?
That's your stupid question.
You have stated that the programmer makes use of tools.
Can you also describe how your Designer programmed the DNA?

shadeyinka:

Like an ostrich who buries it's head in the sand!
Like a fly who follows a corpse into the grave!

If you can't unravel the mundane, what business do you think you have being an expert in spiritual things to say it doesn't exist

I've made my point; and I'll like to go.
This is my first post in almost a year: I do not intend to be active on Nairaland.

Think on these things

Nothing to think about since you've presented nothing new or notable.

Bye.

BTW I don't care to a master of imaginary realms unless I decide to be an author in the guise of JK Rowling or Terry Pratchett.