HellVictorinho:

You obviously can't read well.
I indirectly stated that the evidence or whatever you choose to call it doesn't really matter as a possibility.
I know what this thread is all about.
But I wonder why you would describe these spirits/gods as smart beings.
Like seriously?

Hiding ignorance under sacasm and insults doesn't help you a bit.

I have just challenged you to do a little critical thinking BUT like many of you whose cup of knowledge is already full, nothing can be added.

I haven't even mentioned God or gods in my posts. I have only tried to show you that not all that exists can be defined or described in physical terms.

Think!
For a atheist, the software component of man doesn't exist for the reason that he cannot measure it physically.

Could it be that the atheist is actually the one deficient in knowledge?

shadeyinka:

Hiding ignorance under sacasm and insults doesn't help you a bit.

I have just challenged you to do a little critical thinking BUT like many of you whose cup of knowledge is already full, nothing can be added.

I haven't even mentioned God or gods in my posts. I have only tried to show you that not all that exists can be defined or described in physical terms.

Think!
For a atheist, the software component of man doesn't exist for the reason that he cannot measure it physically.

Could it be that the atheist is actually the one deficient in knowledge?

.
You still can't read well.
I know what you are talking about.
Hmm......Do you actually think atheists wouldn't like to live 2lives?
But most atheists consider probabilities upon probabilities.
They don't consider suppositions only.

shadeyinka:


Point of correction: Electronic states are meaningless unless they are ordered according to some form of information.

AND
Note: You have not described how a computer software looks. You only defined what it is. The question was how does a computer code look like in a computer?

So the question really is: is a computer code a tangible thing or an instruction/information?

Can I dissect a computer and isolate the code/information it contains?

That's what your problem is if you can only look closely. Can one dissect a human being or animal and isolate the code (soul).

What would you call a man who opens up a computer and only finds electrons and atoms and thus concludes that computer codes doesn't exist? (As said, [paraphrased] ...software codes are not the electrons or magnetic states BUT information signals).

Doesn't the soul require the physical biological being to operate?

Who is then the unreasonable?

Neither did you tell me how air looks like, all you did was describe what its effects are. Same with software code it is described by the effect it has on the physical medium. When you encode any capable physical medium with software, the information alters the state of the medium. Its like heat, when you heat a metal it gets hot and at high enough temps the metal glows. Heat is a physical thing but can you describe what heat looks like?

There has been no demonstration of soul that I am aware of. If you know of it let me know or can you demonstrate soul or spirit?

You are unreasonable because you believe in something you have no evidence of.

HellVictorinho:
.
You still can't read well.
I know what you are talking about.
Hmm......Do you actually think atheists wouldn't like to live 2lives?
But most atheists consider probabilities upon probabilities.
They don't consider suppositions only.

I have challenged your ability to think but you are being evasive.
Don't think you know what I am talking about when the plane question stated you cannot fathom nor answer.

Until you are willing to think...

I don't what to change the subject, I would have asked you to defent your "probabilities upon probabilities" because the probability that a computer code will self exist in a computer is zero. As you know, a computer is a dummy: it is the codes that make the computer do what it is able to do.

shadeyinka:

I have challenged your ability to think but you are being evasive.
Don't think you know what I am talking about when the plane question stated you cannot fathom nor answer.

Until you are willing to think...

I don't what to change the subject, I would have asked you to defent your "probabilities upon probabilities" because the probability that a computer code will self exist in a computer is zero. As you know, a computer is a dummy: it is the codes that make the computer do what it is able to do.

You still can't read well.
I know computers work based on instructions.
And the probabilities I mentioned had nothing to do with your question on the computer.
I was referring to the possibility of the spirit realm.

LordReed:


Neither did you tell me how air looks like, all you did was describe what its effects are. Same with software code it is described by the effect it has on the physical medium. When you encode any capable physical medium with software, the information alters the state of the medium. Its like heat, when you heat a metal it gets hot and at high enough temps the metal glows. Heat is a physical thing but can you describe what heat looks like?

There has been no demonstration of soul that I am aware of. If you know of it let me know or can you demonstrate soul or spirit?

You are unreasonable because you believe in something you have no evidence of.

Sorry for you!
I did tell you how air look like.
1. Gas molecules(particles)
2. Colour (response to visible EM spectrum)
3. Effect in motion
All this are physical attributes of air

It is NOT the same as a computer code.

I guess you are not knowledgeable in this field as I will advise that you ask someone who has done a little programming before: especially embedded programming.

Heat is a form of energy and can be quantified (measured). Can you measure a computer code?

If you cannot measure computer code, does it infer that it doesn't exist?

How can you Lordreed demonstrate that a computer code exist in a computer?
If you can, let me know ?
What is your evidence?
Else, you are unreasonable because you believe in something that has no evidence

HellVictorinho:

You still can't read well.
I know computers work based on instructions.
And the probabilities I mentioned had nothing to do with your question on the computer.
I was referring to the possibility of the spirit realm.

Slow down bro.
I am just using what you are familiar with (a computer) to explain your lack of comprehension.

Let me rephrase:
A computer code can neither be physically described not quantified: therefore, what is the probability that a computer code exist in a computer?

In other words

A human code (soul) can neither be physically described not quantified: therefore, what is the probability that a human code (soul) exist in a man?

An atheist shouldn't believe that souls and spirits exist.

shadeyinka:

Slow down bro.
I am just using what you are familiar with (a computer) to explain your lack of comprehension.

Let me rephrase:
A computer code can neither be physically described not quantified: therefore, what is the probability that a computer code exist in a computer?

In other words

A human code (soul) can neither be physically described not quantified: therefore, what is the probability that a human code (soul) exist in a man?

You still can't read well.

shadeyinka:

Slow down bro.
I am just using what you are familiar with (a computer) to explain your lack of comprehension.

Let me rephrase:
A computer code can neither be physically described not quantified: therefore, what is the probability that a computer code exist in a computer?

In other words

A human code (soul) can neither be physically described not quantified: therefore, what is the probability that a human code (soul) exist in a man?

You still can't read well.
I've not stated whether humans have souls or not.
But I've indirectly stated that most atheists are not satisfied with that possibility.
They are concerned with the probabilities attached to such possibilities.
If Mr A is somewhere, what is the probability of him doing this as against the probability of him doing that ?
What is the probability of him being here as against the probability of him being there?

shadeyinka:

Sorry for you!
I did tell you how air look like.
1. Gas molecules(particles)
2. Colour (response to visible EM spectrum)
3. Effect in motion
All this are physical attributes of air

It is NOT the same as a computer code.

I guess you are not knowledgeable in this field as I will advise that you ask someone who has done a little programming before: especially embedded programming.

Heat is a form of energy and can be quantified (measured). Can you measure a computer code?

If you cannot measure computer code, does it infer that it doesn't exist?

I know you'll get bogged down by how sweet this analogy sounds to you to the point where you ignore the real question. Demonstrate spirit or soul or provide evidence of it. I am done talking about software that is obviously a physical phenomenon. Provide us with evidence of soul or spirit, your analogy remains worthless with no evidence of soul or spirit.

[quote author=HellVictorinho post=74868497][/quote]
I would think about this if I were you and not exhibit an escapist approach.

Pull out your Critical thinking skills.

It's easy. Far much easier than you think

shadeyinka:

I would think about this if I were you and not exhibit an escapist approach.

Pull out your Critical thinking skills.

It's easy. Far much easier than you think

Read my post again.
I've edited it.
And you shouldn't use the word "soul" to describe the genetic traits in humans.

HellVictorinho:

You still can't read well.
I've not stated whether humans have souls or not.
But I've indirectly stated that most atheists are not satisfied with that possibility.
They are concerned with the probabilities attached to such possibilities.
If Mr A is somewhere, what is the probability of him doing this as against the probability of him doing that ?
What is the probability of him being here as against the probability of him being there?

We are saying the same thing!

The only reason Atheists doubt the spiritual is because there is no measurable physical evidence. Just like there is no measurable physical evidence for the existence of a computer code in a computer.

You just admitted that the probability of computer codes existing in a computer is zero based on the same argument you use against theists.

However, is this position correct?

shadeyinka:

I would think about this if I were you and not exhibit an escapist approach.

Pull out your Critical thinking skills.

It's easy. Far much easier than you think

Do you want me to tell you whether souls exist or not because humans carry hereditary information?
You also stated that atheists shouldn't believe in spirits.
Who told you all atheists give a damn about such things?
Answer this critical question:What is the probability that Satan exists considering the suppositions of spirits/souls by certain people like you?

shadeyinka:

We are saying the same thing!

The only reason Atheists doubt the spiritual is because there is no measurable physical evidence. Just like there is no measurable physical evidence for the existence of a computer code in a computer.

You just admitted that the probability of computer codes existing in a computer is zero based on the same argument you use against theists.

However, is this position correct?

I didn't admit to anything.
You shouldn't describe genetic traits or genes as souls.

LordReed:


I know you'll get bogged down by how sweet this analogy sounds to you to the point where you ignore the real question. Demonstrate spirit or soul or provide evidence of it. I am done talking about software that is obviously a physical phenomenon. Provide us with evidence of soul or spirit, your analogy remains worthless with no evidence of soul or spirit.

Please demonstrate a software in a computer or at least present an evidence for it. Then, I will know if you can grasp a simple human dimension problem.

I think this is simple enough.

You are the one who require physical evidence to justify reality. Shouldn't you first remove the beam in your own eyes before tearing down others.

If you can't answer this according to atheistic rules every thing you hinge your ethiestic faith falls like a pack of cards.

shadeyinka:


How can you Lordreed demonstrate that a computer code exist in a computer?
If you can, let me know ?
What is your evidence?
Else, you are unreasonable because you believe in something that has no evidence

Are you being fatuous or are these legitimate questions you will claim you don't know the answers for?

How does this absolve you of your unreasonable belief in souls and spirits BTW?

shadeyinka:

Please demonstrate a software in a computer or at least present an evidence for it. Then, I will know if you can grasp a simple human dimension problem.

I think this is simple enough.

You are the one who require physical evidence to justify reality. Shouldn't you first remove the beam in your own eyes before tearing down others.

If you can't answer this according to atheistic rules every thing you hinge your ethiestic faith falls like a pack of cards.

That's funny so with all your claim to knowledge you think the existence of software is undemonstrated? LMFAO! I can't even...

LordReed:


That's funny so with all your claim to knowledge you think the existence of software is undemonstrated? LMFAO! I can't even...

He refers to genes as human codes/souls.

HellVictorinho:

He refers to genes as human codes/souls.

Oh is that his contention? Really?

HellVictorinho:

Do you want me to tell you whether souls exist or not because humans carry hereditary information?
You also stated that atheists shouldn't believe in spirits.
Who told you all atheists give a damn about such things?
Answer this critical question:What is the probability that Satan exists considering the suppositions of spirits/souls by certain people like you?

Your answer is simply like:
Computer codes don't exist!
The materials that make up the HDD and the RAM of a computer is responsible for the behaviour and capability of a computer and not the software.

I believe you know that the above answer is a ridiculous conclusion and oversimplification of reality.

If you check my post, the soul is like software operating on the body(hardware) of which the brain is especially important. Leave Satan out of this for now. Is it possible to explain the concept of Object Oriented Programming to a student who insists vehimently that computer codes doesn't exist because they cannot be physically described?

If you don't believe that souls exist, it is impossible for you to comprehend the spiritual. So, let's take it precept by precept.

LordReed:


Oh is that his contention? Really?

I deciphered it.
If computers require written information to function and you can't see it ordinarily or even understand that it exists because you're not computer literate, you should also accept that you lack knowledge of souls because you can't see the hereditary information ordinarily.
And we know that this information determines how we are meant to FUNCTION as humans.
So you can't exist as a child of your human parents without this information.
And you couldn't have come from nowhere.
You were born.
As for the first human cells,I don't think they were created.
The conditions necessary for the formation of such cells must have been in place before they occurred.
The conditions necessary for the transformation of these cells in such a way that would lead to complex systems must have also been in place before they occurred.
Genes are just consequences of the presence of life-causing factors which also affect the manner in which these life-forms occur.

LordReed:


Are you being fatuous or are these legitimate questions you will claim you don't know the answers for?

How does this absolve you of your unreasonable belief in souls and spirits BTW?

The questions are in fact very legitimate.
I intend to force you to slow down and think over that which we both know the correct answer.

We both know that computer codes exist in a computer.But how?

1. Because we have seen programmers before
2. Because we know about electronics and it's internal design
3. We also know that instructions are written in high level language and compiled into logical sequence of binary codes suitable for our electronic hardware.
4. We also know that we upload the logical sequence of binary codes into the computer
5. THEN, our computer behaves according to how the instructions has been written and designed
6. NOW, even when we have never met the Programmer, nor see the Program uploaded, when we see a computer, we are CERTAIN that the computer run on codes.

7. Unfortunately, there is no physical means of measuring a computer code, no means of seeing a computer code: it is INVISIBLE in the computer hardware.

Now,
What do yo tell a learned man who opens up a computer and finds no software except all the hardware (HDD, RAM, monitor, Keyboard etc) and thus makes these intelligent conclusions

Softwares don't exist
Because
1. He had never met the Programmer
2. He opened up the computer and could nether detect, measure, quantify nor find evidence for the existence of a code in the computer.
3. In conclusion, the Programmer doesn't exist!
4. Extraordinarily claim require extraordinary evidence

Those to whom the answer is obvious can only wander how really intelligent the learned man is

I rest my case!

But I think it's worth thinking about.
Not everything in the universe is physical
And
Nothing everything has a physical description

Anyone who sees everything in the light of the physical has a narrow world view

shadeyinka:


Your answer is simply like:
Computer codes don't exist!
The materials that make up the HDD and the RAM of a computer is responsible for the behaviour and capability of a computer and not the software.

I believe you know that the above answer is a ridiculous conclusion and oversimplification of reality.

If you check my post, the soul is like software operating on the body(hardware) of which the brain is especially important. Leave Satan out of this for now. Is it possible to explain the concept of Object Oriented Programming to a student who insists vehimently that computer codes doesn't exist because they cannot be physically described?

If you don't believe that souls exist, it is impossible for you to comprehend the spiritual. So, let's take it precept by precept.

You still can't read well.
I never stated that computer codes don't exist.
What you call computer codes are simple instructions.

HellVictorinho:

He refers to genes as human codes/souls.

I didn't say so.

You always hide ignorance under sacasm.

shadeyinka:

I didn't say so.

You always hide ignorance under sacasm.

You implied it,dude.
I've demystified your abracadabra.

HellVictorinho:

I deciphered it.
If computers require written information to function and you can't see it ordinarily or even understand that it exists because you're not computer literate, you should also accept that you lack knowledge of souls because you can't see the hereditary information ordinarily.
And we know that this information determines how we are meant to FUNCTION as humans.
So you can't exist as a child of your human parents without this information.
And you couldn't have come from nowhere.
You were born.
As for the first human cells,I don't think they were created.
The conditions necessary for the formation of such cells must have been in place before they occurred.
The conditions necessary for the transformation of these cells in such a way that would lead to complex systems must have also been in place before they occurred.
Genes are just consequences of the presence of life-causing factors which also affect the manner in which these life-forms occur.

Your argument is just like:

Computer codes don't exist!
What makes the computer function are the PSU, RAM, HDD etc.

Don't you know that all the computer hardware is just carcass without the software?

The software may not be able to controll the functionalities of the computer if any of the hardwares is Faulty. A computer may have an 8GB RAM while another has 64GB RAM but without softwares, it is DEAD.

If you know anything about Object Oriented Programming, you'll know that INHERITANCE is one of the key characteristics.

The presence of the soul doesn't negate the human biological low-level hardwares such as genes, DNA, cells or high-level hardwares such as Brain, Spinal cord, Tendons, Muscles etc

You base your faith on shaky ground.

HellVictorinho:

You still can't read well.
I never stated that computer codes don't exist.
What you call computer codes are simple instructions.

And my take had been: what is the evidence you can present to show that computer codes exist in a computer?

You have evaded this question!

shadeyinka:

Your argument is just like:

Computer codes don't exist!
What makes the computer function are the PSU, RAM, HDD etc.

Don't you know that all the computer hardware is just carcass without the software?

The software may not be able to controll the functionalities of the computer if any of the hardwares is Faulty. A computer may have an 8GB RAM while another has 64GB RAM but without softwares, it is DEAD.

If you know anything about Object Oriented Programming, you'll know that INHERITANCE is one of the key characteristics.

You still can't read well.
I never stated that computers can work without instructions.
I've destroyed your aims as regards this subject.

shadeyinka:

Your argument is just like:

Computer codes don't exist!
What makes the computer function are the PSU, RAM, HDD etc.

Don't you know that all the computer hardware is just carcass without the software?

The software may not be able to controll the functionalities of the computer if any of the hardwares is Faulty. A computer may have an 8GB RAM while another has 64GB RAM but without softwares, it is DEAD.

If you know anything about Object Oriented Programming, you'll know that INHERITANCE is one of the key characteristics.

The presence of the soul doesn't negate the human biological low-level hardwares such as genes, DNA, cells or high-level hardwares such as Brain, Spinal cord, Tendons, Muscles etc

You base your faith on shaky ground.



And my take had been: what is the evidence you can present to show that computer codes exist in a computer?

You have evaded this question!

Critical question: What is the definition of your supposition-SOUL ?

shadeyinka:

The questions are in fact very legitimate.
I intend to force you to slow down and think over that which we both know the correct answer.

We both know that computer codes exist in a computer.But how?

1. Because we have seen programmers before
2. Because we know about electronics and it's internal design
3. We also know that instructions are written in high level language and compiled into logical sequence of binary codes suitable for our electronic hardware.
4. We also know that we upload the logical sequence of binary codes into the computer
5. THEN, our computer behaves according to how the instructions has been written and designed
6. NOW, even when we have never met the Programmer, nor see the Program uploaded, when we see a computer, we are CERTAIN that the computer run on codes.

7. Unfortunately, there is no physical means of measuring a computer code, no means of seeing a computer code: it is INVISIBLE in the computer hardware.

Now,
What do yo tell a learned man who opens up a computer and finds no software except all the hardware (HDD, RAM, monitor, Keyboard etc) and thus makes these intelligent conclusions

Softwares don't exist
Because
1. He had never met the Programmer
2. He opened up the computer and could nether detect, measure, quantify nor find evidence for the existence of a code in the computer.
3. In conclusion, the Programmer doesn't exist!
4. Extraordinarily claim require extraordinary evidence

Those to whom the answer is obvious can only wander how really intelligent the learned man is

I rest my case!

But I think it's worth thinking about.
Not everything in the universe is physical
And
Nothing everything has a physical description

Anyone who sees everything in the light of the physical has a narrow world view

You keep coming up with these flawed analogies. You have acknowledged that software's existence is demonstrable but come to the the conclusion that the undemonstrated spiritual realm is real. The only relevant thing here is demonstration which you are unable to supply for your spiritual realm.

HellVictorinho:

Read my post again.
I've edited it.
And you shouldn't use the word "soul" to describe the genetic traits in humans.

Do not put words in my mouth I didn't say

HellVictorinho:

I didn't admit to anything.
You shouldn't describe genetic traits or genes as souls.

Address the issue of "measurable physical evidence" as a proof of reality and don't put words in my mouth I didn't say