I say this a an opinion only because i want to be politically correct. If i would be blunt, this is not an opinion but an irrefutable fact!

Right and wrongs dont exist! They never had and will never exist.

What you call moral judgement is an illusion, a worse illusion is what we call SIN. There is nothing like sin.


You have a choice and right to do whatever you want to do in life. Yes. You can choose to be anything. A serial killer, an armed robber, a rapist, think of the worst things you can imagine (you only think they are terrible, they aint).

Life is ruled by actions and reactions not good and evil, not right and wrong.

There are consequences for everything you do (not spiritual consequences).

Think about this. The Europeans almost wiped out the Native american indians. Was it right or wrong? Today America has had several presidents but none of them is a true indigene of america. The indigenous americans have never been president. Their lands were taken from them and they were sent to reserves like animals.
Was it right or wrong? If all the native americans were wiped off, who would judge the europeans?

It is all about power.

If a race war should break out today, why should the weaker races not be wiped out?

As long as the consequences are acceptable, anything can be done.

We do good, because the consequences of doing good are more favourable to us. Not because good is a divine rule

HardMirror:
I say this a an opinion only because i want to be politically correct. If i would be blunt, this is not an opinion but an irrefutable fact!

Right and wrongs dont exist! They never had and will never exist.

What you call moral judgement is an illusion, a worse illusion is what we call SIN. There is nothing like sin.


You have a choice and right to do whatever you want to do in life. Yes. You can choose to be anything. A serial killer, an armed robber, a rapist, think of the worst things you can imagine (you only think they are terrible, they aint).

Life is ruled by actions and reactions not good and evil, not right and wrong.

There are consequences for everything you do (not spiritual consequences).

Think about this. The Europeans almost wiped out the Native american indians. Was it right or wrong? Today America has had several presidents but none of them is a true indigene of america. The indigenous americans have never been president. Their lands were taken from them and they were sent to reserves like animals.
Was it right or wrong? If all the native americans were wiped off, who would judge the europeans?

It is all about power.

If a race war should break out today, why should the weaker races not be wiped out?

As long as the consequences are acceptable, anything can be done.

We do good, because the consequences of doing good are more favourable to us. Not because good is a divine rule

As compelling as your argument is, I think it falls short of objectivity and subjectivity even.

Subjectively, people have what they call good and bad in their locals.

Objectively also, the world has its goods and bads.

Though the notion of spiritual consequences for wrongs done is shaky, I still think KARMA is real.

In all, Man is free but everywhere in chains!

Each society makes its own Truth(Right or wrong), some society believed killing twins was their own truth(Right thing), yet another one believes killing twins is cruel and not their own truth(wrong thing), Interaction between society has always made us share our truths.
While modern society don't believe in the truth(Right or Wrong) of the past society and vice versa; the past society believe group of men invading a territory or another society while capturing slaves, resoucers, and claiming authority or colony is an heroic, brave act and their ultimate Truth(Right), while the modern society believes such act is terrorism, extremism, kidnapping, unlawful invasion abduction etc its evident such isn't the modern Truth(very Wrong).

Bottom line is; Truth (Right or Wrong)is formed from our little thoughts and perception of the world around us, and we start sharing them with our immediate family, till it gets to the society. The idea of education is someone's thought, same as religion, culture, technology and what right or what's wrong. Thoughts make us superior to all animals, as no other animal dreams, imagines or have vivid thoughts

Awol1:


As compelling as your argument is, I think it falls short of objectivity and subjectivity even.

Subjectively, people have what they call good and bad in their locals.

Objectively also, the world has its goods and bads.

Though the notion of spiritual consequences for wrongs done is shaky, I still think KARMA is real.

In all, Man is free but everywhere in chains!

dont use terms you do not understand. Objectively and subjectively prove that my arguments are wrong. Admit you cant and i will break it down for you

The world is simply cause and effect. It's not for moral or compassionate men but for the strong and powerful. Only them can have and take it by force.

OP and Martinez19 are right. To an extent.

Though I'm irreligious, I believe without any shred of doubt that God exists (not the gods of religions).

God or nature sees nothing as right or wrong, good or evil, up or down, light or dark. All these are relative depending on one's frame of reference or ethical standard.

There is no right or wrong. But Karma, the law of cause, is universal unlike concepts like right and wrong that are relative and vary in definition from one to individual to the other, from one nation to the other, from one culture to the other.

gensteejay:
OP and Martinez19 are right. To an extent.

Though I'm irreligious, I believe without any shred of doubt that God exists (not the gods of religions).

God or nature sees nothing as right or wrong, good or evil, up or down, light or dark. All these are relative depending on one's frame of reference or ethical standard.

There is no right or wrong. But Karma, the law of cause, is universal unlike concepts like right and wrong that are relative and vary in definition from one to individual to the other, from one nation to the other, from one culture to the other.

karma is another topic. Karma as it is classically defined is a myth. Karma as consequences is real. If i was rude to my parent, then my kids become rude to me, everyone says that is karma, which is total bulshit. But if i was rude to my parent and they flog me for being rude, then that is karma. Karma aint a force of nature.

HardMirror:
karma is another topic. Karma as it is classically defined is a myth. Karma as consequences is real. If i was rude to my parent, then my kids become rude to me, everyone says that is karma, which is total bulshit. But if i was rude to my parent and they flog me for being rude, then that is karma. Karma aint a force of nature.

You don't think we're in a world bound by cause and effect? You think our world is not bound by any laws? Even Seun's Nairaland has its own rules that govern this platform.

gensteejay:

You don't think we're in a world bound by cause and effect? You think our world is not bound by any laws? Even Seun's Nairaland has its own rules that govern this platform.

you see, you 'think'. But for seun's thread you 'know'

HardMirror:
you see, you 'think'. But for seun's thread you 'know'

I know our world is governed by a set of laws, which are universal in reality, not limited to this planet only.

Some of these laws are the law of cause and effect, the law of attraction, the law of action, the law of correspondence, the law of polarity, and many others.

I know these, not believe in them or think they're real.

One doesn't need to accept or believe in them to make them real. Just like gravity affects everyone on this planet whether one believes in the concept or not.

Though gravity is not a universal concept.

gensteejay:

I know our world is governed by a set of laws, which are universal in reality, not limited to this planet only.

Some of these laws are the law of cause, the law of attraction, the law of action, the law of correspondence, the law of polarity, and many others.

I know these, not believe in them or think they're real.

One doesn't need to accept or believe in them to make them real. Just like gravity affects everyone on this planet whether one believes in the concept or not.

Though gravity is not a universal concept.

did you forget karma? Or you dont believe in karma anymore?

HardMirror:
did you forget karma? Or you dont believe in karma anymore?

Karma is related to the law of cause and effect.

Karma, as a concept, has its roots in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Taoism and I have some reservations about it, just like I approach any concept in other religions with caution.

All religions have some truths, universal facts, in them.

I know the law of cause and effect, a concept in philosophy, to be a universal concept.

gensteejay:

Karma is related to the law of cause and effect.

Karma, as a concept, has its roots in Buddhism and Taoism and I have some reservations about it, just like I approach any concept in other religions with caution.

All religions have some truths, universal facts, in them.

I know the law of cause and effect, a concept in philosophy, to be a universal concept.

so you believe that if i was a politician and i steal public funds, i would suffer consequences from karma? How?

HardMirror:
so you believe that if i was a politician and i steal public funds, i would suffer consequences from karma? How?

Lol. I know. Not I believe. The same way I know reincarnation is a universal concept, even though a number of religions don't welcome the idea.

People spend and have spent a number of lifetimes on this planet.

gensteejay:

Lol. I know. Not I believe. The same way I know reincarnation is a universal concept, even though a number of religions don't welcome the idea.

People spend and have spent a number of lifetimes on this planet.

you have not answered me. I am a politician and i stole funds and was not caught. What karma would i suffer?

HardMirror:
you have not answered me. I am a politician and i stole funds and was not caught. What karma would i suffer?

The politician will bear the consequences of his evil actions if not in this lifetime, in his next life.

What is your view on consciousness, soul, reincarnation?

We do good and not bad, because the consequences of doing so are more not less favourable and not adverse to us. And not because good or bad is a divine or human rule.
Just hear that.
In other words, and, in English Language alone, you are saying that there is Sanity and Insanity,
that there is Hard and Soft and
that there is Mirror and Shadow.

Do not be Self-defeatist just 'cos you want us to feel that there is no Heaven and everything up there is a vacum.
No. There is Spirit, there is Human. There is Selfishness, there is Righteousness. There is God up there Who is The Fulcrum of The Universe and from Whom Humans get Consciences--The Knowledge of:-
Light and Darkness.
Good and Evil.
Life and Death.
Faith and Forget.
Hope and Abandon.
Peace and Worry.
Love and Hate. And Synonyms and Antonyms.

gensteejay:

The politician will bear the consequences of his evil actions if not in this lifetime, in his next life.

What is your view on consciousness, soul, reincarnation?

ok. Now i understand you. You believe in myths as facts

HardMirror:
ok. Now i understand you. You believe in myths as facts

Lol, says an atheist. Which of those concepts are myths?

The supposed consequences. What afterlife are you talking about?

gensteejay:

Lol, says an atheist. Which of those concepts are myths?

Yesterday I watched a real life video on whatsapp where a group of boys chopped off a girls head with a Matchete live on camera....i kept thinking to myself this is wrong, this is wrong... I just can't wrap my head around the fact that there is no right or wrong, I thought the knowledge of right and wrong was a state of mind bestowed on us from birth...that is why there are some things that happen today that everyone considers bad no matter their beliefs or religious denominations.

HardMirror:
The supposed consequences. What afterlife are you talking about?

Ok. I understand your viewpoint as an atheist.

We're all learning.

As a seeker of knowledge, it may not be wise for one to opt for a specific movement, group, religion, such as atheism, deism, science, Christianity, Islam, and the likes, including any "ism" or "logy". Except for professional purpose.

All of them have some universal facts and truths in them but none of them has grasped even a tiny bit of mysteries on this planet, let alone in the universe.

Not even science. Some people approach science as a religion.

By refusing to choose sides, one can view issues dispassionately and acquire necessary knowledge or information.

But an atheist, religionist, scientist, etc. would usually defend their movement or religion even in the face of compelling evidence.

This brings about dogmatism and stifles one's quest for seeking knowledge, for growth.

gensteejay:

The politician will bear the consequences of his evil actions if not in this lifetime, in his next life.

What is your view on consciousness, soul, reincarnation?

This renders karma untestable and therefore laughable because there is no knowing if there is a next life or reincarnation. Even if there is a next life, its sure that the reincarnated are not aware of their past lives(since the human mind is at tabula rasa at birth) and are therefore different individuals (with different genetic make up and environment) and this would make the payment of their karmic debt from previous lives an absurd injustice.

You took time in answering HardMirror's question because you know that our politicians' lifestyles make a great mockery of karma.
It's a shame that in this age people are still daft and intellectually poor and dishonest to spot cause and effect given two or more factors to consider and this is why you see people attributing success and good health to god, believing in karma and other absurd and ridiculous garbages like law of attraction.

Take a look at this statement :
"if you feel attractive about yourself, others will feel attracted to you." Do you know millions of individuals believe this nonsense? How can this be? Seems stupidity is an unnoticed and underestimated flaw of the human mind.

You don't own the exclusive right to do whatever you like. Whatever action you undertake has an effect on yourself and others at the same time. All action are two-way thing either Happy or Sad

Your Action can make
You Happy | Others Happy
You Happy | Other Sad
You Sad | Other Happy
You Sad | Other Sad

From your action and reaction from others you can decide which is Rights Or Wrongs. Good Or Evil

TissuePaper:
Yesterday I watched a real life video on whatsapp where a group of boys chopped off a girls head with a Matchete live on camera....i kept thinking to myself this is wrong, this is wrong... I just can't wrap my head around the fact that there is no right or wrong, I thought the knowledge of right and wrong was a state of mind bestowed on us from birth...that is why there are some things that happen today that everyone considers bad no matter their beliefs or religious denominations.

Would you still have shuddered in cringe if it so happens that the girl in question had just thrown on a bomb into a community of villagers, killing half of them?

Martinez19:
[s]This renders karma untestable and therefore laughable because there is no knowing if there is a next life or reincarnation. Even if there is a next life, its sure that the reincarnated are not aware of their past lives(since the human mind is at tabula rasa at birth) and are therefore different individuals (with different genetic make up and environment) and this would make the payment of their karmic debt from previous lives an absurd injustice.

You took time in answering HardMirror's question because you know that our politicians' lifestyles make a great mockery of karma.
It's a shame that in this age people are still daft and intellectually poor and dishonest to spot cause and effect given two or more factors to consider and this is why you see people attributing success and good health to god, believing in karma and other absurd and ridiculous garbages like law of attraction.

Take a look at this statement :
"if you feel attractive about yourself, others will feel attracted to you." Do you know millions of individuals believe this nonsense? How can this be? Seems stupidity is an unnoticed and underestimated flaw of the human mind[/s].

You can shove this lengthy, meaningless balderdash you typed into your *hit hole and first learn how to discuss maturely with people online without insulting others, in a bid to sound intelligent.

Ill-mannered dolt!

Brigance:


Would you still have shuddered in cringe if it so happens that the girl in question had just thrown on a bomb into a community of villagers, killing half of them?

wow now that I think about it from this point of view I don't feel that bad

TissuePaper:
Yesterday I watched a real life video on whatsapp where a group of boys chopped off a girls head with a Matchete live on camera....i kept thinking to myself this is wrong, this is wrong... I just can't wrap my head around the fact that there is no right or wrong, I thought the knowledge of right and wrong was a state of mind bestowed on us from birth...that is why there are some things that happen today that everyone considers bad no matter their beliefs or religious denominations.

Interesting. Right and wrong, good and evil are relative, and not universal, as they vary in definition across different species, cultures, etc.

What you just described would look gruesome and horrid to
a set of people whose culture doesn't welcome cannibalism.

Certain cultures of the past saw nothing wrong in such an act and some animals (another specie) would see that act as normal.

gensteejay:

Interesting. Right and wrong, good and evil are relative, and not universal, as they vary in definition across different species, cultures, etc.

What you just described would look gruesome and horrid to
a set of people whose culture doesn't welcome cannibalism.

Certain cultures of the past saw nothing wrong in such an act and some animals (another specie) would see that act as normal.

wow thanks for making me understand like this, I'm an atheist with compassion I guess that's why I see things like that.

TissuePaper:
wow thanks for making me understand like this, I'm an atheist with compassion I guess that's why I see things like that.

OK. I'm here to learn from others and also share few things I know.

I think you’re not getting the point hardmirror is trying to make. He meant that good and bad doesn’t exist, it’s just perspective.

Awol1:


As compelling as your argument is, I think it falls short of objectivity and subjectivity even.

Subjectively, people have what they call good and bad in their locals.

Objectively also, the world has its goods and bads.

Though the notion of spiritual consequences for wrongs done is shaky, I still think KARMA is real.

In all, Man is free but everywhere in chains!

Interesting... I concur with the op. What we have is cause and effect, but karma is a myth. I think karma is more about us and our emotions.

If someone hurts us, we wish them bad for hurting us. Our wish is a silent prophecy within us, that is to say we have secretly prophesied that something bad will happen to them.
We wait for this prophecy. And they go ahead to live their life. If after two years something bad happens to them, we say karma has paid them, but that's not true. Its our prophecy that has come to past because we have been waiting for it. We forget that while we were waiting for something to happen to our enemy, something bad had also happened to us.

Its all cause and effect but we interpret them to suit us.
There is actually no good or bad, bit thinking makes it so.