Why "white washed Sepulchres"? Because it was true. And my bro, that last phrase is totally deadly yabbing - to call a human being "a grave cleaned outside but rotting and stinking inside". Jesus can yap O. BUT IT WAS TRUE SO IT WAS NOT AN INSULT or would you say Jesus was insulting them?

There's nothing deadly about the statement(s) of Jesus, the words He spake were spirit and life. Hear Him.
Matthew 23v27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. 28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
The bolded shows it's a simile. He's simply saying they're like a tomb/grave/sepulchre. Grave look fine/are plastered and painted usually white outwardly but contain dead men/fossils. The pharisees were beautiful externally but their hearts were corrupt and wicked. This isn't an insult or yab/yap. It's different from when you downgrade another's IQ or financial status or grammar.

@image123: You said both parents and pastors ARE both your
parents. ^^^ Look at that statement again - "your pastor and your parents are both your parents" Do you see the contradiction?

No, i see no contradiction but an harmony. One can have different parents, fathers, mothers. It's simply context and lingo. You can have a biological father, an adopted father(abi motherless baby no get hope for your vocab?), father-in-law, school father, helper father etc. Of course also, Heavenly Father. David and Saul shared a Son-Father relationship. Elisha saw Elijah as father, Joash say Elisha as father, Timothy saw Paul as father, John was told to see Mary as mother.

He says talking to Adults - "call no man on earth your father except God in Heaven". Did you ever consider that His disciples were fully grown men who may not even have had living "fathers" and that the context was just for purposes of respect (that they should not give to man what is due to God)? Calling a man "Daddy GO" starts you off towards putting him between you and God. That is a terrible choice to make

Scriptural interpretation should not be based on conjecture or probability, what's your point about orphans.
Call no man on earth, what gives your biological father rights to escape the 'no man' clause that others cannot escape? He says 'you have ONE Father', and His whereabouts is clear, Heaven.
My point is that an isolation of that scripture from other scripture OR a simplistic interpretation of the verse will put you in a fix. You're to compare scripture with scripture.
E.g Romans 4v1. What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Do you call God 'daddy GO'?lol you're crying more than the bereaved here.

Nuclearboy has stated his case and produced what he believes supports his assertions from reason and the Bible

Image123 has stated his case and produced what he believes supports his assertions from reason and the Bible



Readers have brains, can reason and will decide their own reality!

Hope your sunday is going fine, Image123. Enjoy the coming week with God's Hand upon your life

Nuclear, something good is come over you and i love that. Thanks, my weekend is fine. Amen to the prayer.

KunleOshob:

When Jesus said call no man father in matthew 23:9, he was talking within the temple(church) setting. He was refering to the elders/pharisees/saducees, in short the leadership of the church. If you read from the beginning of the chapter in context, this would become clear to you. Or better still read from the amplified bible, the amp bible makes it clear that Jesus was refering to the "church" leadership by that statement an NOT their biological father.

Youre right its probablly talking of the pharisees. But at the same time The Pharisees were not part of the church.

1 Corinthians 4:15-16
15 After all, though you should have ten thousand teachers( guides to direct you) in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers. For[b] I became your father[/b] in Christ Jesus through the glad tidings( the Gospel). 16 So I urge and implore you, be imitators of me.

^^^ Yes, the Pharisees were not part of the church.

Yet Christ was talking in relation to the church when He spoke to His disciples. Because He knew there would be the Pharisee equivalence INSIDE the Church.

It's interesting that Pasiitor Joagbaje says that Matthew 23:9 was referring to Pharisees who are "not part of the church"! This same Joagbaje had in the past argued that Matthew 23:23 (only a few verses later) applies to the "church" and that Jesus was approving "tithing" for Christians.

The truth is that when Jesus said do not call any man father he had the scribes and the Pharisees in particular view but Jesus was talking to His own disciples and followers (the multitude). So Jesus' followers are not to call any earthly person "father"; I think it is clear that this excludes biological/parental father. The apostle Paul might have written in the terms that he did; but he was being figurative and would not have expected fellow Christians to call him "father" and neither would they have necessarily done so as a matter of practice.

On the other hand when Jesus said that those who paid "tithes" ought to have done it without neglecting the weightier matters, he was in fact no longer directing that message at His disciples and followers; rather, He was now upbraiding the scribes and Pharisees specifically and directly.  Compare the three verses below:

Matthew 23:1 (from here until verse 12, Jesus was speaking to and instructing His followers)

Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples

Matthew 23:13 (Here Jesus starts to upbraid the scribes and Pharisees)

"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

The tithemongers' beloved Matthew 23:23 (Again, Jesus upbraiding the scribes and Pharisees specifically)

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

Of course it is reasonable to say that even when Jesus was upbraiding the scribes/Pharisees, the rest of the multitude and the disciples could have learned from what He was saying; still it should be borne in mind that Matthew 23:23 in particular was said in the specific context of observance of the law by persons still then under the law. Whereas the 'do not call any man father' injunction was in a context that included observance of traditions under the law and beyond --- when you read further from verse 9 through until verse 12.

What's that word viaro or so used to talk about again? eisegesis or so.
I can see people perfecting the act.

Enigma:

It's interesting that Pasiitor Joagbaje says that Matthew 23:9 was referring to Pharisees who are "not part of the church"! This same Joagbaje had in the past argued that Matthew 23:23 (only a few verses later) applies to the "church" and that Jesus was approving "tithing" for Christians.

The truth is that when Jesus said do not call any man father he had the scribes and the Pharisees in particular view but Jesus was talking to His own disciples and followers (the multitude). So Jesus' followers are not to call any earthly person "father"; I think it is clear that this excludes biological/parental father. The apostle Paul might have written in the terms that he did; but he was being figurative and would not have expected fellow Christians to call him "father" and neither would they have necessarily done so as a matter of practice.

On the other hand when Jesus said that those who paid "tithes" ought to have done it without neglecting the weightier matters, he was in fact no longer directing that message at His disciples and followers; rather, He was now upbraiding the scribes and Pharisees specifically and directly.  Compare the three verses below:

Matthew 23:1 (from here until verse 12, Jesus was speaking to and instructing His followers)

Matthew 23:13 (Here Jesus starts to upbraid the scribes and Pharisees)

The tithemongers' beloved Matthew 23:23 (Again, Jesus upbraiding the scribes and Pharisees specifically)

Of course it is reasonable to say that even when Jesus was upbraiding the scribes/Pharisees, the rest of the multitude and the disciples could have learned from what He was saying; still it should be borne in mind that Matthew 23:23 in particular was said in the specific context of observance of the law by persons still then under the law. Whereas the 'do not call any man father' injunction was in a context that included observance of traditions under the law and beyond --- when you read further from verse 9 through until verse 12.

I'm not advocating to start calling people "father" in church, but nothing is wrong with that. I had the understanding the scripture refers to earthly parent I. Support of my stand on parental authority, but Kunle pointed out it refers to religious leaders. I didn't argue it, even though I've not done a deeper study, but from what it appears, he was right. But other scriptures still support my stand on the point I brought forth. That verse only appear to be inappropriate for it
So I don't get the point you are making.

^^^ The point I am making is that while

(a) in Matthew 23:9 Jesus did tell his disciples/followers not to call any person father (including scribes, Pharisees, "church leaders/pastors" etc);

(b) in Matthew 23:23 on the other and, Jesus did NOT tell his disciples/followers per se to pay tithes!


In Matthew 23:9 Jesus was instructing his followers whereas in Matthew 23:23 Jesus was upbraiding the scribes and Pharisees as hypocrites.

Enigma:

^^^ The point I am making is that while

(a) in Matthew 23:9 Jesus did tell his disciples/followers not to call any person father (including scribes, Pharisees, "church leaders/pastors" etc);

(b) in Matthew 23:23 on the other and, Jesus did NOT tell his disciples/followers per se to pay tithes!


In Matthew 23:9 Jesus was instructing his followers whereas in Matthew 23:23 Jesus was upbraiding the scribes and Pharisees as hypocrites.

Well from my own understanding he said they ought to pay tithes.

Matthew 23:23
23"Yes, woe upon you, Pharisees, and you other religious leaders-- hypocrites! For you tithe down to the last mint leaf in your garden, but ignore the important things-- justice and mercy and faith. Yes, you should tithe, but you shouldn't leave the more important things undone.

Joagbaje:

Well from my own understanding he said they ought to pay tithes.

Please explain who you mean by "they" in the above, thanx.

Enigma:

Please explain who you mean by "they" in the above, thanx.

He was talking to the Pharisees .

Thank you! So please don't use Matthew 23:23 to preach tithing to anyone again; or at least do not again use Matthew 23:23 to claim that Jesus advocated tithing for Christians.

To bring the thread back to topic, Jesus was saying in Matthew 23:9 that his followers should not call any earthly person father.

So, ajuwaya!

Enigma:

Please explain who you mean by "they" in the above, thanx.

Joagbaje:

He was talking to the Pharisees .

@Enigma, Dat was wicked

Enigma:

Thank you! So please don't use Matthew 23:23 to preach tithing to anyone again; or at least do not again use Matthew 23:23 to claim that Jesus advocated tithing for Christians.
To bring the thread back to topic, Jesus was saying in Matthew 23:9 that his followers should not call any earthly person father.
So, ajuwaya!

Ofcourse Jesus wasn't talking to The church but at least he didn't condemn tithe but rather encouraged it. But that's not my favourites scripture anyway. Maybe you're refering to ttonye.
Tithing was primary source of welfare for priests in the OT. The preaching of the gospel of christ has replaced the levitical priesthood.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live[ of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Enigma:

Thank you! So please don't use Matthew 23:23 to preach tithing to anyone again; or at least do not again use Matthew 23:23 to claim that Jesus advocated tithing for Christians.

To bring the thread back to topic, Jesus was saying in Matthew 23:9 that his followers should not call any earthly person father.

So, ajuwaya!

Are you not a Pharisee? BTW, have you ever called or referred to the papa (wey give your mama belle to born you) as father? He that offends in one point is guilty of all!

@Image23

By your own post, you show your folly!

See this:

Enigma:

. . .
The truth is that when Jesus said do not call any man father he had the scribes and the Pharisees in particular view but Jesus was talking to His own disciples and followers (the multitude). So Jesus' followers are not to call any earthly person "father"; I think it is clear that this excludes biological/parental father. . . .

Joagbaje:

Ofcourse Jesus wasn't talking to The church but at least he didn't condemn tithe but rather encouraged it. But that's not my favourites scripture anyway. Maybe you're refering to ttonye.
Tithing was primary source of welfare for priests in the OT. The preaching of the gospel of christ has replaced the levitical priesthood.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live[ of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

OK then, so I say the below to you:


Grace and free will giving of the gospel of Christ has replaced "tithing" of the Levitical priesthood.

Meanwhile, 'see your life outside' on this link:  https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-502743.32.html#msg6635762

On a clearer note, i'll say again to enigma and colleagues "oh shut up already, would you?" Go and learn what it means, that ALL scripture is given by inspiration of GOD, and is profitable for doctrine and for our learning. If we never need it, it has no business being in the Bible. The gospel of Matthew was written to all. I'm weary of all this lame talk of 'that one is to for levites, that one for priest, that one for corinthians, that one for philemon'. The Bible is not the exclusive preserve of your heroes. Matthew 23v1 is quite direct and doesn't warrant all these feeble eisegesis. It says "Jesus spake to THE MULTITUDE AND TO HIS DISCIPLES". The rest of the chapter is in red.
BTW, by the way and BY THE WAY, who was Jesus directly addressing when He said "ye must be born again", or that "God so loved the world that He have His only Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life", or when He said "Give unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things which are God's", or that "by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned" and so on.
Point is God's Word is for us all and will stand either for or against us in that day.

Hmmm

All Scripture is given for inspiration, eh? OK then here are some scriptures.

Matthew 27:5

So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself

Luke 10:37

Go and do likewise

John 13:27

"What you are about to do, do quickly," Jesus told him

OK It's an old joke but some will get the drift.

All scripture is given by inspiration of GOD, not FOR carnal driftings that can land one close to satan the devil.

Ok agreed. All scripture is given by inspiration for learning etc.

So just go and do likewise and remember to do it quickly! lol

This thread simply shows that the word "church" has lost its meaning to many professing Christians.

It is now like a cult with a head-honcho.

^let sleeping dogs lie tell the truth.

What the difference btw my parents and a pastor? Aren't they humans. They may wish me well (I give you my blessings) God can only bless me!
.

Both of them r in d position 2 bless u n curse u. But if a parent blesses or curses u it has effect more dan d pastors blesinz or curse.
It only dpends on d 1 wich God honours d words of their mouth @ dat moment.
Destiny may/can b dlayed bt cn neva b denied.

Agybabe:

Both of them r in d position 2 bless u n curse u. But if a parent blesses or curses u it has effect more dan d pastors blesinz or curse.
It only dpends on d 1 wich God honours d words of their mouth @ dat moment.
Destiny may/can b dlayed bt cn neva b denied.

Nope the pastor can revoke any curse placed by ones parents

Events after this thread was created have answered the question succinctly.

The person who is in the best position to bless you is Dr Albert Odulele. If you have no access to him, Revd King is the next best. And of course, if you need anointing for lying, we all know where to go to for that

nuclearboy:

Events after this thread was created have answered the question succinctly.

The person who is in the best position to bless you is Dr Albert Odulele. If you have no access to him, Revd King is the next best. And of course, if you need anointing for lying, we all know where to go to for that

You sound like someone who was cursed!
Who cursed you?

^^

Satan (your father) cursed me, But his counsel does not stand.

God cursed you, And His Counsel stands.

Thought you'd fallen off an Okada When we didn't see you again. Apparently, you've found some new customers who are giving you enough to pay cybercafe time. Retard!