@JCross19: « #91 on: Today at 02:15:33 AM »
[QUote]Quote from: nopuqeater on Yesterday at 09:12:54 PM
^^^^^If I were to prostrate my face to Muhammad (AS) as in worship, and Allah did not command me to, directly or through Muhammad (the same that Joseph said to his father who later with all his children prostrated to Joseph); I would have taken up for myself the suggestion of Shaitan. and what i bowed to would have been falsehood.

No messenger of Allah will accept worship from any maqluq (creation) since he, that messenger is also a maqluq.

By the way, I can show you a verse of the Bible that says Jesus is "MADE". You know what made means in another word? It is created.


And when I say the christians are miserable, it simply means that not all of you are always happy, healthy, wealthy and doing as he or she should be if it is true that you are all "children of God".

Funny enough. Your surname is not Yahweh. Why not? You see pe oniro nie. Oje Marina, fese gungo ko ma de sheje.
Shocked

And it is not right to lie on a prophet of God, you know. No wife of my beloved was underage. Ni ile yoruba. Ti omidon kon ba ni okunrin to o fe fe. Sugbon ti o ba she die, ti oro won o wo ki won. Tori no won ko fe ra won. Sugbon ni igba ti okunrin miron wa so wipe owun ni ife lati fe. Ti won fa ara won. Nje a le wa so wipe obinrin yi, tori o fe agbalagba to le bi lomo, kere ju lati loko?

If you say yes, then I see your dishonesty, because when she was first engaged, no one complaint. Why? she was already a woman ready to become a wife.

Now that she just married for the first time, though to the second man who engaged her after the dissolution of the first, how can we say she is underage?
Who are the most poorest set of people on earth ? is it the muslims people okay check the northern part of Nigeria and see what am talking about b,cos they are SLAVES to allah that it's why we have a bunch of beggers , imbeciles and much more hadicaps , they give Nigeria bad image why b,cos they are slaves[/Quote]The poorest people by far has to be the people from Haiti. They are mostly christians. The at a point ate mud pie. Mud pie is MUD/sand.

O ma seeee o. I wo omo JC yi kon maa npa aruwo ni ti e ni.


You didnt answer the question of if a woman who gets married to her second fiancee should be considered too young as being under age for the institution of Marriage? We should then ask if your answer is yes; were you a blind man, deaf and dumb to complain when you actually sanctioned her first engagement? Why now complain about her being finally married? Is it because you would have preferred her to marry the first fiance or that you dislike or even hate the second fiance, who was patient enough to let the flame of the first engagement burn itself out, and came for the pretty woman for a wife, a natural duty of real women? Whats your complaint non muslim people? Hypocrites.

Won fi etee sile won pa lapalapa.

nopuqeater:

@JCross19: « #91 on: Today at 02:15:33 AM »The poorest people by far has to be the people from Haiti. They are mostly christians. The at a point ate mud pie. Mud pie is MUD/sand.

O ma seeee o. I wo omo JC yi kon maa npa aruwo ni ti e ni.


You didnt answer the question of if a woman who gets married to her second fiancee should be considered too young as being under age for the institution of Marriage? We should then ask if your answer is yes; were you a blind man, deaf and dumb to complain when you actually sanctioned her first engagement? Why now complain about her being finally married? Is it because you would have preferred her to marry the first fiance or that you dislike or even hate the second fiance, who was patient enough to let the flame of the first engagement burn itself out, and came for the pretty woman for a wife, a natural duty of real women? Whats your complaint non muslim people? Hypocrites.

Won fi etee sile won pa lapalapa.

stop derailing the question , haitii is not even the poorest nation check it online .ANSWER THE QUESTION PUT INTO YOUR TABLE

vedaxcool:

The liberation of Mecca (Paran) by 10,000 Muslims in the Bible:

Let us look at the following Verse from the King James Version Bible: "And Enoch [Idris in Arabic, one of Allah Almighty's Prophets peace be upon all of them to the people of Israel.] also, the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14-15)"

Let us also look at the following Verse: "And he said, The LORD came from Si'-nai, and rose up from Se'-ir unto them; he shined forth from mount Pa'-ran [Mecca in Arabic], and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them. (The King James Version Bible, Deuteronomy 33:2)" According to Islam's history, when Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and his followers faced hostility from the people of Mecca (Paran), they had to leave the city. They fled to the City of "Yathrib" which was called later "Madina" where Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him continued to spread Islam to all of the Arabs and then later to the countries near by

LOOOOOOOOOOOK that it's not the issue here don't hide from the question and what you posted is not even relevant to the threat . So according the verses you posted up who are they refering to in that verses or are you telling us that mohammmad and co are the saints in that verses ahahahahahahahahahah SEE OOOOOH THE BIBLE THAT YOU CLAIMED TO BE FRAUD AND YOU STILL QUOTING FROM IT , if you think that the bible is a fraud then which one of the verses you think is not a fraud ?

BROS NEXT TIME YOU WANT TO QUOTE ANY BOOK, DO YOURSELF THE HONOURS OF UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU ARE COMMENTING ON. THE SAID COMFORTER IS THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO WAS RELEASED ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST. IF YOU WANT TO RECIEVE IT ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS RECEIEVE JESUS AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOUR. THEN ASK GOD FOR THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WITH STEADFASTNESS.

@JCross19: « #98 on: Yesterday at 10:27:00 PM »
[QUote]Quote from: vedaxcool on Yesterday at 08:29:15 PM
The liberation of Mecca (Paran) by 10,000 Muslims in the Bible:

Let us look at the following Verse from the King James Version Bible: "And Enoch [Idris in Arabic, one of Allah Almighty's Prophets peace be upon all of them to the people of Israel.] also, the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14-15)"

Let us also look at the following Verse: "And he said, The LORD came from Si'-nai, and rose up from Se'-ir unto them; he shined forth from mount Pa'-ran [Mecca in Arabic], and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them. (The King James Version Bible, Deuteronomy 33:2)" According to Islam's history, when Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and his followers faced hostility from the people of Mecca (Paran), they had to leave the city. They fled to the City of "Yathrib" which was called later "Madina" where Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him continued to spread Islam to all of the Arabs and then later to the countries near by
LOOOOOOOOOOOK that it's not the issue here don't hide from the question and what you posted is not even relevant to the threat .[/Quote]Its relevant. Look at the topic, again. It says the Bible defends , (AS).





[Quote]So according the verses you posted up who are they refering to in that verses or are you telling us that mohammmad and co are the saints in that verses ahahahahahahahahahah[/Quote]The saints are the Sahaba (RA). Let me give you few names; Abu Bakr, Umar Khattab, Uthman Affan, Ali AbiTalib, Shuaib Al Rum, Bilal Rabah, Salman Farsi, Abdullah Abbass, Absullah Mas'ud, Abullah Umar, Abbass AbdalMutalab. I could just go on and on.




[Quote]SSEE OOOOOH THE BIBLE THAT YOU CLAIMED TO BE FRAUD AND YOU STILL QUOTING FROM IT , if you think that the bible is a fraud then which one of the verses you think is not a fraud ?[/Quote]The verses he just quoted and many more. When the ones that are fraud will not be quoted; talking about Jesus being God, or son of God, or The Ghost coming over Mary, Jesus being killed on the cross, etc are fraud.




@pellepelle: « #99 on: Today at 02:09:00 PM »
[Quote] BROS NEXT TIME YOU WANT TO QUOTE ANY BOOK, DO YOURSELF THE HONOURS OF UNDERSTANDING WHAT YOU ARE COMMENTING ON. [b]THE SAID COMFORTER IS THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO WAS RELEASED ON THE DAY OF PENTECOST.[/b]Please qualify this Holy spirit and make him fit the "Another Comforter" by giving us what "Jesus" said about the Hoy Spirit and about the Another Comforter". I hope that we can have a honest answer from you. Hopefully you will not avoid the answer as the others have done so far? Was the comforter released so soon (less than 3 months Jesus was ifted up)? Has the Disciples forgot al that Jesus taught them and they had began to lie, so that the Another comforter came to remind, and correct them? Have they not known the actual family honor of Jesus or his personal honor as a servant of God that the another comforter had to set them straight as to defend the honor of Jesus? Were the disciple already spiritually matured in that short a time without Jesus, while for three years with him, they were immature, that the another comforter had to tel them everything that Jesus believed they were not mature to deal with because of their little faith? Did anyone hear the exact word of the SPIRIT which is the holy spirit, tell the listeners at "the day of Penticost" everything God told him to say, and he in turn repeating it, without adding his own or keeping any from the people? Now where is the Book of the record, because I wanna know what he said as he heard it, repeating it only, correcting, etc?




[Quote]IF YOU WANT TO RECIEVE IT[/QUote]But his duties was a one day one event thing. At the penticost, according to you? I was not at the penticost. Neither ia anyone on earth for almost 1900+ years, now. What use is trying to hug what is never available from that day onward? Unless the Bible is wrong?




[QUote]ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS RECEIEVE JESUS AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOUR. THEN ASK GOD FOR THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WITH STEADFASTNESS.[/Quote]You have said a mouth full here. If a person believes in what you call Jesus above, he will now ask a second part; God to give him the gift of the third party; the holy spirit. This makes sense to you? Why not believe in the Second party, God and stop there, since He is the Most Important according to the above? Or are you saying there are more than One God? Well if that is what you are saying, then you are a polytheist. I dont wanna be in your religious company.

But then, didnt you say holy spirit is God, too? How can a God sent another God in an errant? There is one of them who is not a God, if this occur. The One Who sends the one or the others on errants is the True God, while the messengers are just that; Messengers and not God.[/quote]

@nopequeter, when you are mentioning the saints have you forgotten abdul mutallahb osama bin laden, boko haram group and so many other b,cos there is no different from those you mentiones about to these guys , THEY ALL TERRORISTS . mohammad a terrorits and his group the islamic saints ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah

islamic saints ARE TERRORISTS . ahahahaha

@JCROSS19: « #101 on: Yesterday at 11:27:52 PM »
[Quote]@nopequeter, when you are mentioning the saints have you forgotten abdul mutallahb osama bin laden, boko haram group and so many other b,cos there is no different from those you mentiones about to these guys , THEY ALL TERRORISTS . mohammad a terrorits and his group the islamic saints ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah
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Re: The Bible Defends Muhammad Rasulullah (as).
« #102 on: Yesterday at 11:30:26 PM »

islamic saints ARE TERRORISTS . ahahahaha[/Quote]Ahahahahah. Just like Jesus then, we have Okah of MEND today. You dig? You need to stop laughing. Then start crying.

The fact that Mohammed married close to 15 wivs and even Aisha a 9 year old girl discouraged me from I slam. Such person cannot be my prophet. He engaged in violence and supported it, which contrary to christ holy and peaceful nature. Muslims should face the fact that they mostly violent and lack true personal spiritual experiences, but only engage in ritualistic prayers with hope that they will make heaven. read bibleprobe.com(neardeath experience section). Accept CHRIST now before it is too late.

^^^^^ WOuld it have been better if the Messenger married a wife, just like the Christians forbidden themselves to never marry more than that? Incidentally, he married just one wife for over 25 years till her death (RA). Then a year or so later he remarried as Allah commanded him to.

Would it have been unmarried at all, like Jesus. even though the priests and nuns do have corner corner passie passie sidey sidey sexual escapades? None of you wants to be a confirmed bachelor like Jesus was. And jesus was not alone. So was John.

Would it have been better is he imitated Abraham or David or Solomon? He imitated them in moderation. He was not an extremist in any form, except in his duties.

Would have been okay if his wife was older than him? Yes he did. The woman who disvirgined him was his wife, and 2 times married before and 15 years older.

Would it have been okay if a wife is about his age? He married people close to his age.

Whats wrong with a wife extremely younger, especially when she was engaged to be married to a man prior to the marriage to the second man who engaged her later, after the end of the first engagement that failed to lead to marriage? Can we say this new bride is to young, now for a husband, while we did not complain about her being a possible bride to the man who initially engaged her?

By the way, could you tell me when Aisha was born relative to her father's and his household coming into the fold of Islam?

Was it before he became muslim with his family, including Aisha (RA) in the first year of Islam that she was born or was it after they all became muslims, and for some reason she was born again, by the mother who her father divorced because she will not enter Islam?


What do you think about the Old Testament's wars under Moses? Was that not worse than what you say about Muhammad (AS)? Do you know the God that was telling Moses to kill peoples and animals and cut down trees? It was Jesus, as Yahweh. Is Jesu as Yahweh, peaceful? Think, again.



On spirituality: Your deeds, belief and worship included all amounts tl what Jesus called "Filthy rag". You thinking your clapping, dancing to organ and band music, and singing, etc is spirituality and will get you to heaven? Keep your heaven. I am for Paradise, InshaAllah.

una never asnwer the question wey jcross ask ooo, i still dey wait and make una try take una tyme get una facts and figures before una post sha, (its just an advice)

nopuqeater:

^^^^^ WOuld it have been better if the Messenger married a wife, just like the Christians forbidden themselves to never marry more than that? Incidentally, he married just one wife for over 25 years till her death (RA). Then a year or so later he remarried as Allah commanded him to.

Would it have been unmarried at all, like Jesus. even though the priests and nuns do have corner corner passie passie sidey sidey sexual escapades? None of you wants to be a confirmed bachelor like Jesus was. And jesus was not alone. So was John.

Would it have been better is he imitated Abraham or David or Solomon? He imitated them in moderation. He was not an extremist in any form, except in his duties.

Would have been okay if his wife was older than him? Yes he did. The woman who disvirgined him was his wife, and 2 times married before and 15 years older.

Would it have been okay if a wife is about his age? He married people close to his age.

Whats wrong with a wife extremely younger, especially when she was engaged to be married to a man prior to the marriage to the second man who engaged her later, after the end of the first engagement that failed to lead to marriage? Can we say this new bride is to young, now for a husband, while we did not complain about her being a possible bride to the man who initially engaged her?

By the way, could you tell me when Aisha was born relative to her father's and his household coming into the fold of Islam?

Was it before he became muslim with his family, including Aisha (RA) in the first year of Islam that she was born or was it after they all became muslims, and for some reason she was born again, by the mother who her father divorced because she will not enter Islam?


What do you think about the Old Testament's wars under Moses? Was that not worse than what you say about Muhammad (AS)? Do you know the God that was telling Moses to kill peoples and animals and cut down trees? It was Jesus, as Yahweh. Is Jesu as Yahweh, peaceful? Think, again.



On spirituality: Your deeds, belief and worship included all amounts tl what Jesus called "Filthy rag". You thinking your clapping, dancing to organ and band music, and singing, etc is spirituality and will get you to heaven? Keep your heaven. I am for Paradise, InshaAllah.

OH OH why are you derailing from the op , answer the question and stop digressing the thread . Is not your fault since is lawful lie in your religion so keep it . mohammad married more than any other muslims even during the life time of kadijat and after her death okay stop lying on that every one know that okay

« #94 on: October 01, 2010, 04:05 PM »

STOP HIDING FROM THE QUESTION ANSWER THE QUESTION OKAY or YOU HAVE ACCEPTED THAT mohammad ONLY MADE SELF CLAIMED BUT JUST TRYING TO DECEIVE HIS PEOPLE , IF NOT TELL THE READERS OF THE THREAD[b] WHAT ARE THE NAME OF TWELVE SONS OF ISHMAEL AND WHAT LINEAGE DID mohammad CAME FROM [/b]. SIMPLE AS THAT OKAY AND STOP DERAILING THE THREAD.



Is the bold the question that JCross19 is jumping for joy about? O ma sheee o. Let me first that Jews and Christians consider daughters to be nothing. The opposite is what Islam brought.

Let me start by establishing from the Bible what happened to Ismail (AS) and his mother as they finally left the main house of father Ibrahim in Jerusalem, in Paul's own words;

Paul in the book of Galatians and the most recent Archeological Discoveries suggest that Mount Sinai is in Saudi Arabia and NOT in Egypt's Sinai desert:

Recent archeological discoveries along with Paul's own words in Galatians 4:25 clearly suggest that Mount Sinai is located in Saudi Arabia. This means that Paran being south of Mount Sinai clearly means that it is the Holy City of Mecca as I showed above:

The Bible clearly says that Paran is south of Sinai in Egypt; "He said: 'The LORD came from Sinai and dawned over them from Seir; he shone forth from Mount Paran. He came with myriads of holy ones from the south, from his mountain slopes.' (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 33:2)"

This verse is elaborated on further above. Now, let us first look at Galatians 4:25, then the archeological evidence:

"Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. (From the NIV Bible, Galatians 4:25)"

From http://www.carm.org/questions/desert.htm

Muhammad (AS) descended from Kader.

Kedar came from Ishmael; "These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, and Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa, Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah: These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations. Kedar and Ancient Arabs (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 25:13)" The Arabian desert region was named after Kedar.

nopuqeater:

Muhammad (AS) descended from Kader.

Kedar came from Ishmael; "These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, and Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa, Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah: These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations. Kedar and Ancient Arabs (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 25:13)" The Arabian desert region was named after Kedar.

quite interesting that allay forgot to add this to his useless quran. once again the clueless muslim has to go dig into the bible to figure out his own history.

Paran in the Bible is Mecca today:

The sections of this article are:

1- Paran in the Bible is Mecca today.
2- Abraham peace be upon him sent Hagar and Ishmael to Paran.
3- Mecca, Bacca and Paran.
4- More Verses on Paran.
5- Kaabah (the cube black building in Mecca) and Mecca.
6- Paul in the book of Galatians and the most recent Archeological Discoveries
suggest that Mount Sinai is in Saudi Arabia and NOT in Egypt's Sinai desert.

7- Christian Archeologists prove from the Bible that Mount Sinai is in "Saudi Arabia" today.
8- Muhammad in the Bible, (Isaiah 60), Pilgrimage to Mecca, !
9- References/Links.

In this article I will prove that "Paran" in the Bible is indeed referring to the city or the region of Mecca in Saudi Arabia today, where Prophet Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was born
and received the Divine Revelations of Islam.



Important Note:
After finishing this article, please also visit:

The detailed story of how the Kaaba was built by Abraham and his son Ishmael peace be upon them.

The Kaaba is the House of GOD Almighty, and it too was mentioned in the Bible.

Abraham peace be upon him sent Hagar and Ishmael to Paran:

Let us look at the following Verses: "Then God opened her [Hagar] eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink. God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt. At that time Abimelech and Phicol the commander of his forces said to Abraham, "God is with you in everything you do. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 21:19-22)"

Hagar was an Arab. Abraham peace be upon him had Ishmael from her, who was 13 years older than Issac. After Sarah, Abraham's wife gave birth to Issac, Abraham decided to let Hagar and her son Ishmael go. He sent to the desert of Arabia in the region of Paran.

Then GOD Almighty promised Ishmael that from him, He will increase his numbers and make from him a great nation, the Arab nation; "And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 17:20)"

The Bible clearly says that Paran is south of Sinai in Egypt; "He said: 'The LORD came from Sinai and dawned over them from Seir; he shone forth from Mount Paran. He came with myriads of holy ones from the south, from his mountain slopes.' (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 33:2)"

Kedar came from Ishmael; "These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, and Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa, Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah: These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations. Kedar and Ancient Arabs (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 25:13)" The Arabian desert region was named after Kedar. See the second map below.


paran.gif (16916 bytes)

map_paran.gif (9165 bytes)



The Ishmaelites were Arabs and not Egyptians. They came from the Arabian desert; "As they sat down to eat their meal, they looked up and saw a caravan of Ishmaelites coming from Gilead. Their camels were loaded with spices, balm and myrrh, and they were on their way to take them down to Egypt. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 37:25)" "take them down to Egypt" means taking them to the land of Egypt. It doesn't mean taking them toward the south direction. When for instance you say "my house is right down the street", it doesn't mean the house is south of the street. The house could be on the north side. The sentence means that the house is on the street, or will be found if the person walks in the path that you lead him to.

The point however in the above Verse is that the Ishmaelites were not from Egypt. They came from another land. They had loaded camels and they were heading to Egypt. Arabs used to rely heavily on camels for traveling. And as we've seen from the above Verses regarding Ishmael and his Mother (Hagar) living in the desert of Paran in the South, this clearly proves to us that the desert of Paran is located in Arabia and not in Egypt, since the Ishmaelites are not Egyptians.



Mecca, Bacca and Paran:

Let me paste for you the following Verses from the Bible and the Noble Quran:

"Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; in whose heart are the ways of them. Who passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools. (From the NIV Bible, Psalms 84:5-6)"

"The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings: In it are signs manifest; (for example) the Station of Abraham; whoever enters it attains security; pilgrimage thereto is a duty men owe to Allah those who can afford the journey; but if any deny faith Allah stands not in need of any of his creatures. (The Noble Quran, 3:96-97)"

"And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is. Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation. And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink. And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 21:17-21)"

More Verses on Paran:

"Then the Israelites set out from the Desert of Sinai and traveled from place to place until the cloud came to rest in the Desert of Paran. (From the NIV Bible, Numbers 10:12)" Here the desert of Paran means the region of Paran, which would be either at or near Mecca.

"After that, the people left Hazeroth and encamped in the Desert of Paran. (From the NIV Bible, Numbers 12:16)" Here the desert of Paran means the region of Paran, which would be either at or near Mecca.

"So at the LORD's command Moses sent them out from the Desert of Paran. All of them were leaders of the Israelites. (From the NIV Bible, Numbers 13:3)"

"These are the words Moses spoke to all Israel in the desert east of the Jordan--that is, in the Arabah--opposite Suph, between Paran and Tophel, Laban, Hazeroth and Dizahab. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 1:1)"



Kaabah (the cube black building in Mecca) and Mecca:

Atharva Veda X, 2, Mantras 28 and 31
28. Whether it is built high, its walls are in a straight line or not, but God is seen in every corner of it. He who knows the House of God, knows it because God is remembered there.
31. This abode of the angels has eight circuits and nine gates. It is unconquerable, there is eternal life in it and it is resplendent with Divine light.

The Ka'bah is not exactly cubical and its sides are not of the same length. The Holy Sanctuary (Haram) of which Ka'abah is at the center remains open day and night throughout the year and it is always filled with people praying and supplicating to Allah (the One True God). Muslims face toward it during prayer forming circle in the Haram (Holy House) and the circle extends out in this manner throughout the planet Earth.

The holy sanctuary (Haram) has remained unconquerable. Abraha al-Ashram, the Abbysinian viceroy of Yemen, tried to demolish it in 570 CE with a strong army and hordes of elephants but was prevented from entering the city (Holy precinct). The people of Makkah had decided not to defend the Ka'bah, fled the city and took refuge in nearby hills overlooking Ka'bah. By Allah's Command, the 'Abaabeel' (flying creatures, birds) pelted stones at Abraha's army and decimated it, leaving them like green crops devoured by cattle.

This incident is described in the Surah (chapter) 105 of the Qur'an. The year 570 CE is popularly known by the Arabs as 'The year of the Elephant,' and Prophet Muhammad was born in that year.

Paul in the book of Galatians and the most recent Archeological Discoveries suggest that Mount Sinai is in Saudi Arabia and NOT in Egypt's Sinai desert:

Recent archeological discoveries along with Paul's own words in Galatians 4:25 clearly suggest that Mount Sinai is located in Saudi Arabia. This means that Paran being south of Mount Sinai clearly means that it is the Holy City of Mecca as I showed above:

The Bible clearly says that Paran is south of Sinai in Egypt; "He said: 'The LORD came from Sinai and dawned over them from Seir; he shone forth from Mount Paran. He came with myriads of holy ones from the south, from his mountain slopes.' (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 33:2)"

This verse is elaborated on further above. Now, let us first look at Galatians 4:25, then the archeological evidence:

"Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. (From the NIV Bible, Galatians 4:25)"

From http://www.carm.org/questions/desert.htm

Why isn't there any record of millions of Jews wandering in the desert?



There has been a lot of speculation on the route of the Exodus and why the traditional site hasn't yielded any archaeological evidence. After all, if two million people wander in a desert for forty years, you'd think that at least something would be found to support it. But, nothing at all has been unearthed in the Sinai Peninsula supporting the biblical account of the Exodus. Various explanations for this range from the idea that it is naturally difficult to find any archeological evidence in a desert of sand to the explanation that the traditional site is the wrong one.

First of all, no archaeological find has ever contradicted the Bible. Archaeology has only confirmed what the Bible says. As has been the case with so many other things in the Bible, as archaeology progresses, they will most certainly uncover evidence in the future. The Bible has yet to be proven wrong by archaeology.
Second, lack of evidence doesn't mean there wasn't an Exodus. However, this is a slippery slope since having a lack of evidence for an ice cream factory on Jupiter doesn't mean that there is one. What we need is evidence and it is fair to say that there should be some evidence for the wanderings of two million people for forty years in a desert.
Third, it may be that the traditional site of Mt. Sinai is incorrect. Gal. Gal. 4:25 says "Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children." Present theories dealing with Mt. Sinai's location have it in the Sinai Peninsula, yet the Bible says it was in Arabia. The map to the right shows the traditionally accepted route (in black) and the currently accepted location of Mt. Sinai. The problem is that there has been absolutely no archaeological evidence unearthed at that site to verify the Exodus. The route in red shows an alternate path that is consistent with Paul's description in Gal. 4:25. This would have Mt. Sinai be in Arabia, which is now Saudi Arabia, instead of the traditionally accepted Sinai peninsula.

In a recent book titled "In search of the Mountain of God," by Bob Cornuke and David Halbrook (Broadman and Holman, 2000), Bob Cornuke (a Christian) recounts his story of going into Saudi Arabia with his friend Larry Williams (a non-Christian commodities trader). They uncovered evidence of an alternate site where the real Mt. Sinai might be. Bob Cornuke was a police officer, swat team member, and crime scene investigator in Southern California and is the President of the Bible Archaeology Search and Exploration (BASE) Institute BaseInstitute.org. He and Mr. Williams have produced a video and book (available on that site) where they claim to have found evidence in Saudi Arabia to support that Mt. Sinai is located within its borders. Now, I must admit that this has not been verified by any "official" archaeologists, but the video, which I have seen, does raise some interesting possibilities.
Mr. Cornuke and Williams claim to have simply let the Bible guide them as they attempted to locate the actual route of the Jews of the Exodus. Through trial and error over several weeks, they followed what they believed was the route as is laid out by the Bible and they found the items described in Exodus 13 - 19 including, springs, a split rock, an altar, an underwater land bridge at the end of the Sinai Peninsula where the people of Israel could have crossed, and much more. The present location of Mt. Sinai, according to the locals in their account, is known as Jabal Al Laws as is traditionally known by them as the mount of Moses. The Saudis have the area fenced off with warning signs in Arabic and English telling people not to enter. If this is so, why would the Saudis not want anyone to know about the place? It might be because if Mt. Sinai is located in Muslim territory then one of the most holy places of the Jewish and Christian religions it could pose serious political problems.
I must admit that this is speculative at present and it has not been verified. But the video was compelling. Whether or not this is a valid option is yet to be determined and it is supportive of the idea that the traditional location of Exodus route might indeed be incorrect, as Gal. 4:25 seems to suggest.

Christian Archeologists prove from the Bible that Mount Sinai is in "Saudi Arabia" today:

From http://www.baseinstitute.org/Sinai_1.html

Is Mount SINAI in the SINAI?

For centuries Bible scholars and religious pilgrims have been seeking the location of the real Mt. Sinai.Today, most people are unaware that not one piece of hard evidence has been produced to verify thatwhat is traditionally designated at “Mount Sinai” in the south central Sinai Peninsula is indeed thefamed mountain of Moses and the Exodus. In fact, the only verifiable reason that the traditional site is designated “Mount Sinai” at all is because a Roman mystic designated it and Helena, mother of Constantine I, anointed it as the true Mount Sinai early in the 4th century AD. (Helena also claimed she discovered the true “holy sepulchre” in Jerusalem and the true cross of Christ.)

Several other proposed sites for the true Mount Sinai have been suggested by biblical scholars, but thus far they have produced no archaeological evidence to support them. If we are ever to discern a correct location for the historical events recorded in the biblical Book of Exodus, it’s important to use the Scriptures as a guide, just as we would use any ancient documents that have proven reliable in the past.

In the New Testament, Paul wrote in Galatians 4:25, “Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia . . .”Although some argue that here the Roman designation of Arabia includes the Sinai Peninsula, Arabia in Paul’s day encompassed a larger region that primarily designated the populated regions of ancient Midian, or modern-day Saudi Arabia. As a “Hebrew of Hebrews,” Paul’s understanding of Arabia would have been one that was consistent with Old Testament passages like 1 Kings 10:15, 2 Chronicles 9:14, Isaiah 21:13, Jeremiah 25:24, and Ezekiel 27:21, in which Arabia is clearly identified with the region east of the Gulf of Aqaba, where “kings” ruled and the “Dedanites” co-dwelt with other nomadic peoples.

Even more telling, Exodus 3:1 plainly identifies Mount Horeb (Sinai) as being in Midian: “Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God.” Here, there are two important issues. First, the region of “Midian” referred to here is undeniably the same as present-day Saudi Arabia. Second, at the traditional site of Mt. Sinai on the Sinai Peninsula, there is nothing that would cause it to be geographically identified with the “back” of a desert, in distinction from its surroundings. By contrast, the site proposed by BASE Institute is, indeed, on the far side or margin of a vast desert in ancient Midian

However, can ancient Midian be identified with the Sinai Peninsula, which in the time of Moses, was considered a part of Egypt (although designated as the “wilderness” of Egypt)? It is apparent from Exodus 2:15 that the two were separate entities. After killing an Egyptian, Moses fled Egypt for safer ground: “When Pharaoh heard of this, he tried to kill Moses, but Moses fled from Pharaoh and went to live in Midian.” Egypt and its holdings would not have been safe for Moses under any circumstances. He would not have fled to the Sinai Peninsula, where archaeology shows that Pharaoh had multiple mining interests and military outposts. The Bible is clear that Moses went out of Egypt, to the land of Midian east of the gulf of Aqaba.

The Bible makes several references to Moses returning to Egypt from Midian, including Exodus 4:19 where we read, “Now the Lord had said to Moses in Midian, ‘Go back to Egypt, for all the men who wanted to kill you are dead.” All passages associated with Moses’ stay in Midian point toward present-day Saudi Arabia as the area to which Moses fled, subsequently met God at the burning bush, and then returned with the children of Israel.

Because so many Bible references as well as archaeological evidence (or the lack of it) pointed away from traditional Mount Sinai and toward Saudi Arabia as the location of the historical mountain of Moses, a site inspection was necessary to determine if other evidence could be found to support this theory. Saudi Arabia’s closed borders made it impossible for a team of scholars and archaeologists to enter the country. As a result, Larry Williams and I surreptitiously slipped into the country, traced what appears to be the Exodus route, and climbed the mountain which many scholars now consider to be the true Mount Sinai.

What follows is a condensed account of our adventures, our findings, and how these relate directly to the Bible.



From http://www.baseinstitute.org/Sinai_2.html

Mt. Sinai - the Evidence

RED SEA CROSSING SITE In 1 Kings 9:26, the Bible tells us, “King Solomon also built ships at Ezion Geber, which is near Elath in Edom, on the shore of the Red Sea.” This verse provides us with some compelling clues. First, Solomon had his port at Elath (modern Eilat) on the shores of the northern tip of the Gulf of Aqaba (which forms the eastern “finger” of the Red Sea proper). The NIV Study Bible references this verse as follows: “Red Sea. The Hebrew for this term, normally read as Yam Suph (‘sea of reeds’), refers to the body of water through which the Israelites passed at the time of the Exodus. It can also be read, however, as Yam Soph (‘sea of land’s end’), a more likely reading when referring to the Red Sea, and especially . . . to its eastern arm, the Gulf of Aqaba.”

This could well mean that the “sea of land’s end,” at the tip of the Sinai Peninsula, was the site of the Israelites’ crossing. At the very least, the use of the same Hebrew term both for the place where the Israelites crossed and for the Gulf of Aqaba at Elath shows that the body of water in question is not an isolated lake, but includes the bulk of what we know as the Red Sea.

BITTER LAKES: Many scholars suggest that the actual crossing of the “sea of reeds” was in the Bitter Lakes region, north of the Gulf of Suez, where some observers have claimed that wind can cause the lake level to fluctuate several feet. However, this simply is not consistent with numerous other Biblical references, including the account of an entire, Egypt-engulfing locust swarm being blown into Yam Suph (Exodus 10:19), Solomon sailing a fleet of ships on Yam Suph (1 Kings 9:26), and the description of the way in which Pharaoh’s soldiers died at Yam Suph: “But You blew with your breath, and the sea covered them. They sank like lead in the mighty waters” (Exodus 15:10). The Bitter Lakes region is a marsh with no mighty waters. At the tip of the Sinai Peninsula, however, at the entrance of the Gulf of Aqaba, the “mighty waters” of the Red Sea can reach incredible fury and awesome depths.

TRADITIONAL MOUNT SINAI: Having visited the traditional Mount Sinai in the southern Sinai Peninsula, I have seen first hand that the only place the Israelites could possibly have camped was a small, flat valley area adjacent to the mountain, allowing for only about one square yard per person (assuming that roughly 2 million people were involved in the Exodus). And despite extensive archeological investigation throughout the region, nothing has ever been found that can conclusively be tied to the Exodus of the Hebrews from Egypt - or can even argue for a large population of people ever occupying the area.

UNDERWATER LAND BRIDGE: Following a theory that the route of the Exodus actually took the Hebrews past (not through) the bitter Lakes and then southward along the west coast of the Sinai Peninsula, we traveled to the tip of the Sinai and explored the underwater topography (bathymetry) of the Strait of Tiran, where the Gulf of Aqaba is narrowest between the Sinai Peninsula and Saudi Arabia. There we found that an underwater land bridge exists that today is so problematic for shipping that two separate routes or “lanes” are designated for northbound and southbound ships to pass through. Further correlation of the Bible’s account of the route of the Exodus causes us to realize that this unusual submarine formation may well have been trod by the Hebrews themselves.

BITTER SPRINGS OF MARAH: Exploring the further possibility that the Israelites passed through the waters of the Red Sea at the Strait of Tiran, we picked up our search for landmarks on the Saudi Arabia side of the Gulf of Aqaba. There we started at the coastline on the eastern side of the Strait of Tiran and traveled the most natural route approximately 30 kilometers inland to a group of springs, where the water in some of the springs was terribly bitter. Exodus 15:22-23 tells us, “So Moses brought Israel from the Red Sea; then they went out into the wilderness of Shur. And they went three days in the wilderness and found no water. Now when they came to Marah, they could not drink the waters of Marah, for they were bitter.”

THE 70 PALMS AND 12 SPRINGS OF ELIM: As we traveled generally toward Jabal al Lawz (the Saudi Arabian mountain that is held by generations of Bedouins to be the mountain of Moses), we next encountered a group of clear water springs, with a grove of palm trees adjacent to them. We marveled at the description in Exodus 15:27: “Then they came to Elim, where there were twelve wells of water and seventy palm trees; so they camped there by the waters.”

CAVES OF MOSES: While at the springs, we discovered that some nearby caves were being excavated by Saudi archaeologists. A worker at the site said that writings found in the caves indicated that the prophet Musa (Moses) had come through this area with his nation of Hebrews.

CHARRED PEAK AND MELTED ROCK: Continuing to Jabal al Lawz, and after a great deal of maneuvering to gain access to the mountain, we found the top of the mountain to be thoroughly blackened, as if the rocks had been severely scorched from without. When we broke open the rocks, we found that they were actually granite rocks with a blackened “rind” and an untouched core of pure granite inside. We had already read in Exodus 19:18, “Now Mount Sinai was completely in smoke, because the Lord descended upon it in fire . . . .”

BOUNDARY MARKERS: As we explored further around the base of the mountain, we discovered large piles of rocks arranged in a semicircle around the front of the mountain, spaced about every 400 yards. Measuring about five feet high and 20 feet across, these piles could be the boundary markers set up by Moses, as he had been instructed by God: “. . . You warned us saying, ‘set bounds around the mountain and consecrate it’” (Exodus 19:23).

GOLDEN CALF ALTAR: In a flat area at the base of the mountain we also discovered that large boulders had been placed together, creating an altar-like formation 30 feet tall and 30 feet across - quite possibly the altar where the golden calf was set up and worshiped by God’s disobedient people. On the rocks were etched ancient drawings of a bull god, as described in Exodus 32:4, where Aaron “. . . received the gold from the hand, and he fashioned it with an engraving tool, and made a molded calf.”

More Evidence follows on the next page including information on the golden calf, the split rock at Horeb, the 12 pillars, Moses' altar and Elijah's cave.

From http://www.baseinstitute.org/Sinai_3.html

Mt. Sinai - More Evidence

GOLDEN CALF ALTAR: In a flat area at the base of the mountain we also discovered that large boulders had been placed together, creating an altar-like formation 30 feet tall and 30 feet across - quite possibly the altar where the golden calf was set up and worshiped by God’s disobedient people. On the rocks were etched ancient drawings of a bull god, as described in Exodus 32:4, where Aaron “. . . received the gold from the hand, and he fashioned it with an engraving tool, and made a molded calf.”

MOSES' ALTAR and the 12 PILLARS: At the foot of the mountain we found a V-shaped altar, with each arm approximately 60 feet long and 20 feet wide. Next to it were several toppled pillars in sections measuring about 22 inches in diameter and 20 inches in length. Exodus 24:4 records that Moses “. . . built an altar at the foot of the mountain, and twelve pillars according to the twelve tribes of Israel.”

SPLIT ROCK AT HOREB: (Full credit for verification and documentation of the split rock at Horeb goes to Jim and Penny Caldwell, who conducted their research while living in Saudi Arabia.) One of the most startling discoveries at Jabal al Lawz was a massive, prominent, split rock on the west side of Jabal al Lawz, which showed evidence of gushing water from within - jagged rocks that had been smoothed off by an abundant flow of water. Exodus 17:6 records God’s instructions to Moses when the Israelites were dying of thirst in the wilderness: “Behold, I will stand before you there on the rock in Horeb; and you shall strike the rock, and water will come out of it, that the people may drink.”

CAVE OF ELIJAH: High on the mountain was a cave by which Elijah may have stood to hear God’s voice, as described in 1 Kings 19:18b, 13b: “. . . and he went . . . as far as Horeb, the mountain of God . . . . and he went out and stood in the entrance of the cave . . . .”

This expedition yielded the first of a wealth of compelling new evidence, to suggest that the Strait of Tiran on the Gulf of Aqaba was the crossing point for the route of the Exodus, and that Jabal al Lawz in Saudi Arabia is the true Mount Sinai.

The real significance in all this is that the Bible again has apparently been shown to be true, reliable, and accurate, down to the smallest historical detail. Critics who claim that the Bible does not coincide with known history and geography are again shown to be wrong once the physical evidence begins to surface. The account in the Bible is true, and the implications are incredible.

God descended on Mount Sinai in flames like a furnace. He spoke to Moses and gave him the Ten Commandments as the laws for the life of Israel. He communicated His love and mercy through the laws for sacrifice and atonement. And though we are unworthy, He gave us the opportunity to enter into a personal, caring relationship with the Eternal Father.

The exploits of the BASE Institute team may sound like a treasure hunt to others, but a more important adventure awaits those who would seek out the treasures of the Word of God. The Bible reveals His plan for reconciliation - and the most important discovery any of us can ever make is how to begin a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. This is the best adventure.

Muhammad in the Bible, (Isaiah 60), Pilgrimage to Mecca, !

Muhammad in the Bible, (Isaiah 60), Pilgrimage to Mecca, !



References/Links:

http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch6.10.html
http://users.erols.com/zenithco/comparekjv.html

nopuqeater:

First of all, no archaeological find has ever contradicted the Bible. Archaeology has only confirmed what the Bible says. As has been the case with so many other things in the Bible, as archaeology progresses, they will most certainly uncover evidence in the future. The Bible has yet to be proven wrong by archaeology.
Second, lack of evidence doesn't mean there wasn't an Exodus. However, this is a slippery slope since having a lack of evidence for an ice cream factory on Jupiter doesn't mean that there is one. What we need is evidence and it is fair to say that there should be some evidence for the wanderings of two million people for forty years in a desert.
Third, it may be that the traditional site of Mt. Sinai is incorrect. Gal. Gal. 4:25 says "Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children." Present theories dealing with Mt. Sinai's location have it in the Sinai Peninsula, yet the Bible says it was in Arabia. The map to the right shows the traditionally accepted route (in black) and the currently accepted location of Mt. Sinai. The problem is that there has been absolutely no archaeological evidence unearthed at that site to verify the Exodus. The route in red shows an alternate path that is consistent with Paul's description in Gal. 4:25. This would have Mt. Sinai be in Arabia, which is now Saudi Arabia, instead of the traditionally accepted Sinai peninsula.

Do you really believe on what you just posted on there right , still there is no archeological fact ever counterfiet the bible too why archeological facts discovered in yemen on koran was seized and ceased so that no one can know the true fact of of korand and mohammad. well for your information you have not answered the question and stop diressing the thread okay . show us the lineage of the wannabe mohammad from that twelve sons of moahmmad okay and stop posting irrevant psot on here

@JCross19; Below was my answer to your QUESTION. the bold below it was davidylan reaction to my post; very civil, I will say. I dont wanna day immature because i may be insulting my elder. Muhammad's legitimacy was never a question. It is the threat of legitimacy or illegitimacy may make some people indulge in DNA test, today. And in the olden days, of Quran and definitely the Torah, Sabur, and Injil, you or those who love you will struggle to assign you with a famous name, or famous names.

« #109 on: Today at 02:00:25 AM »
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Muhammad (AS) descended from Kader.

Kedar came from Ishmael; "These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, and Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa, Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah: These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations. Kedar and Ancient Arabs (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 25:13)" The Arabian desert region was named after Kedar.
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Re: The Bible Defends Muhammad Rasulullah (as).
« #110 on: Today at 02:02:18 AM »

Quote from: nopuqeater on Today at 02:00:25 AM
Muhammad (AS) descended from Kader.

Kedar came from Ishmael; "These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, and Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa, Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah: These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations. Kedar and Ancient Arabs (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 25:13)" The Arabian desert region was named after Kedar.

quite interesting that allay forgot to add this to his useless quran. once again the clueless muslim has to go dig into the bible to figure out his own history.
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@JCross19; « #125 on: Today at 10:02:07 AM »
[QUote]Quote from: nopuqeater on Today at 02:29:03 AM
First of all, no archaeological find has ever contradicted the Bible. Archaeology has only confirmed what the Bible says. As has been the case with so many other things in the Bible, as archaeology progresses, they will most certainly uncover evidence in the future. The Bible has yet to be proven wrong by archaeology.
Second, lack of evidence doesn't mean there wasn't an Exodus. However, this is a slippery slope since having a lack of evidence for an ice cream factory on Jupiter doesn't mean that there is one. What we need is evidence and it is fair to say that there should be some evidence for the wanderings of two million people for forty years in a desert.
Third, it may be that the traditional site of Mt. Sinai is incorrect. Gal. Gal. 4:25 says "Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children." Present theories dealing with Mt. Sinai's location have it in the Sinai Peninsula, yet the Bible says it was in Arabia. The map to the right shows the traditionally accepted route (in black) and the currently accepted location of Mt. Sinai. The problem is that there has been absolutely no archaeological evidence unearthed at that site to verify the Exodus. The route in red shows an alternate path that is consistent with Paul's description in Gal. 4:25. This would have Mt. Sinai be in Arabia, which is now Saudi Arabia, instead of the traditionally accepted Sinai peninsula.
Do you really believe on what you just posted on there right , still there is no archeological fact ever counterfiet the bible too[/QUote]But the Bible counterfeited itself, with the many versions, editions, revisions, etc, which are still on going. But you dont care about all of that, am sure. What I posted which you dubiously responded started from the previous post from me. It started with the Question why no evidence around mount Sinai that a crowd of people, nearly 2 millions wondered around it for 40 years. That was very important, since Canaan is so close to Egypt. Check it out, yourself, since the Jews say that even West Bank with a crossover away from Egypt is part of their promised land. You need to own up to your Bible.




[Quote]why archeological facts discovered in yemen on koran was seized and ceased so that no one can know the true fact of of korand and mohammad. well for your information you have not answered the question and stop diressing the thread okay.[?quote]For sure there was no revelation in Yemen. There were revelations in Makka, where it satrted for 13 years. Then there were revelations in Madina for the last 10 years. What Yemen has, Yemen has. This is not my problem. In the lifetimes of the very companions of the Messenger (AS), two publications of Quran were made; The first was to be Original; so they had a single Full Book first the very first time. Afsah the daughter of Umar (RA) was the custodian. She did not put it in front of the muslims, until Uthman bin Affan asked her so that it can be used as part of the developmental tools and resources to develop the 5 different Quran in specific tongues; Makka and Madina version is just one like what Afsah held for so long, the second was Damascus tongue, another was Kufar tongue, another was Basra tongue (And the learned students of Islam can correct me here), and another tongue, because Islam had spread to far away as India, even in the lifetime of the prophet (AS), many dacades before during the split of the moon, in Surah Qamar.




[Quote]show us the lineage of the wannabe mohammad from that twelve sons of moahmmad okay and stop posting irrevant psot on here[/Quote]I did on top. All you have to do is read, instead of steaming up my glasses with spits from Sayo Sayo from your mouth (Elemu ara e; lol. I like this dude, so I kid him. I might just as well).
[/quote]