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"Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! - Religion (10) - Nairaland

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Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Yinyeon(f): 2:56pm On May 13
biggy26:

Don't be desirous of being a teacher without proper study. Go, read and understand.

I should say the same to you!!!

Besides, I'm not trying to be a teacher knowing fully well that I'm not qualified to be, I don't know everything or even much to begin with.

However, I'm trying to spread the little that I know; which is true; what's so wrong in that?
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Yinyeon(f): 3:00pm On May 13
Iroroghene:


By Reformed Church, do you mean churches that Preach the “Once Saved, Forever Saved” doctrine?


Yes, but not only that.

Those that believe in Calvinism, TULIP.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Iroroghene: 3:04pm On May 13
Yinyeon:



Yes, but not only that.

Those that believe in Calvinism, TULIP.

Personally, I feel the “Once Saved, Forever Saved” doctrine gives people liberty to commit sin. Don't you think so?
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Agrogbeide: 3:32pm On May 13
If you don't believe in Once saved forever saved it is fine and no need debating over it. Since you feel or know you can preserve your salvation by good works there is nothing wrong in it in as much the goal is the kingdom of God.
Those who believe in Once Saved Forever Saved also need not bother since they depend on grace to lead them into the kingdom of God. They ought to relax and allow the Holy Spirit work in them and through them thereby producing good works not of their own strength, fear of hell or lose of salvation but by the Holy Spirit that indwells them.
Anybody that finds pleasures in sin is either NOT BORN AGAIN OR DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF GRACE IF HE IS A CHRISTIAN.
If you as a Christian find yourself struggling with sin, all you need to do is to ask God for revelation on how you have been crucified with Christ on the Cross of Calvary and how you have resurrected with him with an incorruptible Life and you will be set free from the desires of the flesh.
Nevertheless, any Christian that find pleasures in sin will first be convince and judge by the Holy Spirit so that on the last day he won't be judge among sinners and condemn. If that Christian heed not to the conviction of the Holy Spirit, he will be delivered to Satan for the destruction of the flesh so that his spirit might be saved and therefore CANNOT LOSE HIS SALVATION.
Truth Is Truth And False Is False. Your Belief Cannot Change Anything But Gives You A Proper Understanding Of A Better Foundation On Which To Stand.
ONCE SAVED IS FOREVER SAVED.
THANKS.
GOD BLESS

2 Likes

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Yinyeon(f): 3:40pm On May 13
Iroroghene:


Personally, I feel the “Once Saved, Forever Saved” doctrine gives people liberty to commit sin. Don't you think so?

That's a false thinking.
I believe a believer would never abuse the grace of God, never.

Whoever takes God's Grace as a chance to commit sin is not saved and was never saved. It's as simple as that.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Iroroghene: 4:00pm On May 13
Yinyeon:


That's a false thinking.
I believe a believer would never abuse the grace of God, never.

Whoever takes God's Grace as a chance to commit sin is not saved and was never saved. It's as simple as that.

1 Peter 5:8
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:”

Matthew 26:41
“Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak”.

A saved believer can also fall into temptation, therefore, making him sin, not because that was his/her intention but because s/he couldn't resist the Devil.

People actually fall into sin, not with the intent of abusing the grace of God but because they yielded or were not watchful.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Yinyeon(f): 4:21pm On May 13
Iroroghene:


1 Peter 5:8
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:”

Matthew 26:41
“Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak”.

A saved believer can also fall into temptation, therefore, making him sin, not because that was his/her intention but because s/he couldn't resist the Devil.

People actually fall into sin, not with the intent of abusing the grace of God but because they yielded or were not watchful.

Of course a Christian commits Sin, falls into temptation.

Why wouldn't we, when we still have this dead carcass called the Flesh but let me tell you, a believer is always bitten by his sin and our Father in Heaven disciplines us whenever we do so.

1 Like

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Iroroghene: 4:33pm On May 13
Yinyeon:


Of course a Christian commits Sin, falls into temptation.

Why wouldn't we, when we still have this dead carcass called the Flesh but let me tell you, a believer is always bitten by his sin and our Father in Heaven disciplines us whenever we do so.

The question now is, anytime we yield to temptation without the intent of abusing the grace of God, we feel guilt and this guilt might make us think our sins cannot be forgotten, which has led many, once fervent believers to apostasy.

You claim God disciplines us anytime we sin, but do we remain saved in spite of the sin we've committed or after the disciplinary action, he restores our salvation?
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Yinyeon(f): 7:43pm On May 13
Iroroghene:


The question now is, anytime we yield to temptation without the intent of abusing the grace of God, we feel guilt and this guilt might make us think our sins cannot be forgotten, which has led many, once fervent believers to apostasy.

You claim God disciplines us anytime we sin, but do we remain saved in spite of the sin we've committed or after the disciplinary action, he restores our salvation?

Every Christian knows that God forgives all Sin and I mean All.
No Christian will stop to think that God doesn't forgive all Sin but it still didn't stop is from feeling terrible when we fo fall into Sin.

He discipline us so that the fruit of Salvation becomes evident in us once again and not to bring us back into Salvation for once we are there, there we will be forever.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Iroroghene: 10:59pm On May 13
Yinyeon:


Every Christian knows that God forgives all Sin and I mean All.
No Christian will stop to think that God doesn't forgive all Sin but it still didn't stop is from feeling terrible when we fo fall into Sin.



I agree with you but Satan, the accuser of the brethren always finds a way to make you think your sins are unforgivable and anytime he succeeds, those individuals are most likely going to remain in their sins.

“In my understanding of the matter, giving in to a life of carnality has the danger of leading to apostasy not because God can't or won't forgive sin (far from it!), but rather because giving in to a life of sinfulness hardens the heart over time to such a degree that those who refuse to confess and turn back can potentially get to the point where they no longer can look God in the face (Jn.3:19-20)”

Yinyeon:


He discipline us so that the fruit of Salvation becomes evident in us once again and not to bring us back into Salvation for once we are there, there we will be forever.


What can you say about the Parable of the ten virgins, the foolish virgins were locked out of the marriage, they were all saved but along the line, the foolish ones slumbered and the were caught unawares when the Bridegroom arrived.

The theory of “Once Saved, Forever Saved” doesn't hold water in this context because if they were forever saved, they would have been allowed into the marriage by the Bridegroom.

Or what do you think?

1 Like

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by pressplay411(m): 12:00am On May 14
ojhandsome:



firstly no one has his or her own interpretation of the bible always allow the bible to explain itself ,,,to understand or correctly interpret the bible u must read the pretext n post text i will advice u start from the beginning of Hebrews... the book of Hebrews was written to the Jews as the name implies not to say we cant apply it today to us as Christians... so if you are reading Hebrews try to put yourself in the shoes of a jew because you and i are gentiles with this understanding the above verses u quoted was referring to the Israelite ie their fore fathers in the time of Moses how after experiencing the power of GOD they still refuse to believe start.... reading from chapter 3 down to chapter 6,,,,when u get to chapter 6 read dwn to verse 9Heb 6:9 do not allow chapters n verses confuse u the bible did not originally come wt chapters n verses it was added along the line to make reading easier

verse 9 says But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
KJV
after the writer has spoken about the isrealites in the wilderness he comes bk to u and i wich is what vs 9 is saying u are not like dem that saw the glory of GOD but hardened their hearts

salvation is a gift righteousness is a gift romans 5 17 u dont work for it once God gives u something he doesn't take it back romans 11;29

eph 1 13 says we are SEALED with the holy spirit

once you are born again you are kept by Jesus he is the one doing the work not

Jude1; 24
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
KJV

see also
John 10:28-30

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.
KJV

hope the explanation is clear ..i call you blessed


I'm glad you have the understanding that there are two categories of people as far as God is concerned. Jews (Believers, chosen people) and Gentiles (Unbelievers).
I am also glad you realised the book of Hebrews is the only epistle Paul wrote to the Jews hence its name (Hebrews). All his other epistles were to Gentiles.

Paul and Barnabas were specially handpicked by the Holy Spirit as Apostles to the Gentiles.
Apostle Peter was so uncomfortable to minister to Gentiles. Even after his trance and encounter at Cornelius' household (Gentile family), the other disciples and Apostles challenged him for even sharing the gospel with Gentiles talkless of making them receive the same Holy Spirit as them, the Jews (God's chosen people).
The Apostles struggled with ministering to Gentiles because, they did not see Jesus do it. It was both repulsive to them and it was contrary to what Christ did.
Why did I bring this up?
We're to grow from Gentiles into Jews by Faith.
You can't be saved and still maintain a Gentile's (Unbeliever's) mentality and way of life.

Because Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour said He was not sent to Gentiles but only Jews. (Israelites)

Matthew 15:21-28
21 Then Jesus went out from there and departed to the region of Tyre and Sidon.

22 And behold, a woman of Canaan came from that region and cried out to Him, saying, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely demon-possessed.”

23 But He answered her not a word.

And His disciples came and urged Him, saying, “Send her away, for she cries out after us.”

24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

25 Then she came and worshiped Him, saying, “Lord, help me!”

26 But He answered and said, “It is not good to take the children’s bread and throw it to the little dogs.”

27 And she said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.”

28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.


What I have come to realise is that a lot of believers mistake God's Love for Salvation.
Nothing can separate us (the world, every human being) from God's Love, but Salvation is of the Jews.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten so, that who so ever believe in Him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:16
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by alBHAGDADI: 9:03am On May 14
Iroroghene:


Yes, I know. If I attend church once, get born again (saved) and stop going, while having personal fellowship with Christ in my room, there wouldn't be any need to attend church then.

It's good to study alone, but there are somethings you can learn from the congregation. That's why the Bible says we shouldn't forsake such gathering.

Hebrews 10:25 (KJV)
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by shadeyinka(m): 9:35am On May 14
Iroroghene:


The question now is, anytime we yield to temptation without the intent of abusing the grace of God, we feel guilt and this guilt might make us think our sins cannot be forgotten, which has led many, once fervent believers to apostasy.

You claim God disciplines us anytime we sin, but do we remain saved in spite of the sin we've committed or after the disciplinary action, he restores our salvation?
If you ever for any reason loose your salvation, it would be impossible for you to be restored.

Heb 6:4-6:
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

So, what do you think makes a person to loose his salvation?
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by orisa37: 11:59am On May 14
You can be saved once or twice without knowing who saved you and still backslide. But once you become Born Again, even Babalawo and Mr.President on Nairaland will never bother you.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Iroroghene: 2:21pm On May 14
shadeyinka:

If you ever for any reason loose your salvation, it would be impossible for you to be restored.

Heb 6:4-6:
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

So, what do you think makes a person to loose his salvation?

A believer can lose his salvation if he allows the devil to steal it.

1 Peter 5:8
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:”

John 10:10
“The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly”.

“If they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh” by falling away/falling into sin, I think that might mean renunciation of the Salvation we once had.

1 John 1:9
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness”.

God is merciful but he'll only forgive if we confess our sins. From the story of Demas in 2 Timothy 4:10, we see that it is possible to lose one's salvation.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by biggy26: 2:34pm On May 14
Yinyeon:


I should say the same to you!!!

Besides, I'm not trying to be a teacher knowing fully well that I'm not qualified to be, I don't know everything or even much to begin with.

However, I'm trying to spread the little that I know; which is true; what's so wrong in that?
Nothing, absolutely!

I enjoy sharing the word, and I listen. The Holy Spirit is too big to be at conflict with the flesh. The Holy Spirit baptizes the man into the body of Christ, and makes His abode in the new man. That new man is the man that got saved, called the inner man. It was that part of man that got saved. 2Corinth.5:17... the mind according to romans 12:1,2, needs renewal to conform with the reality of the recreated or born again human spirit....

Before I go on, let me ask you a question. Who was Gal.5:22, 23 referring to, is the new man or the Holy Spirit, when it said, "..but the fruit of the spirit is....?"
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by shadeyinka(m): 4:01pm On May 14
Iroroghene:


A believer can lose his salvation if he allows the devil to steal it.

1 Peter 5:8
“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:”

John 10:10
“The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly”.

“If they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh” by falling away/falling into sin, I think that might mean renunciation of the Salvation we once had.

1 John 1:9
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness”.

God is merciful but he'll only forgive if we confess our sins. From the story of Demas in 2 Timothy 4:10, we see that it is possible to lose one's salvation.


So the devil can!?

Rom 8:31-35:
"What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us ? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?"
John 17:11-12:
"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition ; that the Scripture might be fulfilled."


None of the scriptures you quoted is about salvation.

Let me ask you a logical question:
If you burnt down your father's house (through carelessness or anything), that is a gross offence. Your parents would be hurt...but do you think they will disown you? Do you know how many times you have wronged your parents through disobedience? How many times have they disowned you?

Can you perform an act that will make them finally disown you?
YES!
Would you?
MOST PROBABLY NOT!

Would you knowing that your parent would not disown you now go about deliberatly disobeying them? NO!
Why?
You know that YOU ARE NOT A BASTARD!



If a person looses his salvation through any means, he is lost forever.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Chylo(m): 4:04pm On May 14
ojhandsome:



i will refer you to https://livingwordmedia.org these type of questions and much more are extensively dealt with

all those religious Christians preaching loss of salvation they dont know the implication of what they are saying its simply the result of lack of study of the bible and quoting out of context Jesus paid the price for your sins and the death which you should have died he did it for not to say we should now start to sinning NO people will quote 1cor 6;9-10 but we skillfully leave out vs 11 vs 11 says some of you where once like that you where cleansed and made HOLY and made right with GOD meaning at salvation..... righteousness was imputed when u believed the gospel the only thing that sends a man to hell is unbelief in the gospel and not sin NOBODY ever lost salvation in the bible ie after Jesus died and resurrected please visit the site above all these questions are dealt with in such away you cannot doubt NO believer is to be found in HELL it is not possible

You are now saying something different. Your colleagues are saying nothing can take one to hell once saved. Whether sin or unbelief.

Let me be clear with you: living in sin is equivalent with unbelief, because if you believe you wont sin. Read the bible yourself:

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?
17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!
20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?
22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.
24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
—James 2:14–16
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Chylo(m): 4:12pm On May 14
shadeyinka:



So the devil can!?

Rom 8:31-35:
"What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us ? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?"
John 17:11-12:
"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition ; that the Scripture might be fulfilled."


None of the scriptures you quoted is about salvation.

Let me ask you a logical question:
If you burnt down your father's house (through carelessness or anything), that is a gross offence. Your parents would be hurt...but do you think they will disown you? Do you know how many times you have wronged your parents through disobedience? How many times have they disowned you?

Can you perform an act that will make them finally disown you?
YES!
Would you?
MOST PROBABLY NOT!

Would you knowing that your parent would not disown you now go about deliberatly disobeying them? NO!
Why?
You know that YOU ARE NOT A BASTARD!



If a person looses his salvation through any means, he is lost forever.

Your last statement is true: "If a person looses his salvation through any means, he is lost forever."
So if you believe that, why do you then say once saved, always saved?

The illustration you gave of burning your fathers house down is inaccurate. One loses his salvation, when he rejects God (when he disowns his Father), the Father never disowns his children. But people can wilfully reject God, having accepted him in the past. God will not force such a person to remain saved. The person has taken an active decision, saying that he doesn't want the Holy Spirit anymore (this is what the scripture means by the unforgivable sin - blaspheming the Spirit).

We need to be very watchful. Teaching once saved, always saved is unscriptural even by your own admission. We should teach the "assurance of salvation" instead. We should teach that when we are saved, we have security in Christ and we can be free from sin guiltiness BUT it can be lost if we reject Christ later wilfully by our actions. And when that happens, we become damned and unable to return.

1 Like

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Iroroghene: 6:10pm On May 14
shadeyinka:



So the devil can!?

Rom 8:31-35:
"What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us ? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?"
John 17:11-12:
"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition ; that the Scripture might be fulfilled."


None of the scriptures you quoted is about salvation.

Let me ask you a logical question:
If you burnt down your father's house (through carelessness or anything), that is a gross offence. Your parents would be hurt...but do you think they will disown you? Do you know how many times you have wronged your parents through disobedience? How many times have they disowned you?

Can you perform an act that will make them finally disown you?
YES!
Would you?
MOST PROBABLY NOT!

Would you knowing that your parent would not disown you now go about deliberatly disobeying them? NO!
Why?
You know that YOU ARE NOT A BASTARD!



If a person looses his salvation through any means, he is lost forever.


What do say about those who departed from the way of the LORD like Demas and returned like the parable of the Prodigal son, are you saying they can come back to God after recognizing their sinfulness state?

Haven't they lost their salvation and wouldn't the LORD restore it if they ask him to?
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Iroroghene: 6:12pm On May 14
Chylo:


Your last statement is true: "If a person looses his salvation through any means, he is lost forever."
So if you believe that, why do you then say once saved, always saved?

The illustration you gave of burning your fathers house down is inaccurate. One loses his salvation, when he rejects God (when he disowns his Father), the Father never disowns his children. But people can wilfully reject God, having accepted him in the past. God will not force such a person to remain saved. The person has taken an active decision, saying that he doesn't want the Holy Spirit anymore (this is what the scripture means by the unforgivable sin - blaspheming the Spirit).

We need to be very watchful. Teaching once saved, always saved is unscriptural even by your own admission. We should teach the "assurance of salvation" instead. We should teach that when we are saved, we have security in Christ and we can be free from sin guiltiness BUT it can be lost if we reject Christ later wilfully by our actions. And when that happens, we become damned and unable to return.

Beautifully written, God bless you real good.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by ojhandsome(m): 9:39pm On May 14
Chylo:


You are now saying something different. Your colleagues are saying nothing can take one to hell once saved. Whether sin or unbelief.

Let me be clear with you: living in sin is equivalent with unbelief, because if you believe you wont sin. Read the bible yourself:

14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?
17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!
20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?
22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.
24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
—James 2:14–16



Am not saying anything different...brotherly NOTHING can take a christian to hell what takes a people to hell is unbelief in the gospel meaning unbelief in Jesus like i said john 3 16 says it all.... pple saying sin will take a believer to hell dont understand the implication of what they are saying...if SIN can take a believer to hell then ALL Christians are going to hell nobody is righteous by self efforts NON ur made righteous by what Jesus did on the cross any christian who is trying to be accepted by GOD by works eg not telling lies abstaining from illicit sex etc is already committing sin, is it right to abstain from sin yes absolutely. but is that what makes u righteous NO Abraham did alot of rubbish slept with his maid told a lie that sarah was his sister n not his wife GOD never called him out for it WHY? because there was NO law at that time, and where there is no law sin cannot be charged against you,the law doesnt exist anymore after jesus died Romans 10:4 Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth ...take note of righteousness to everyone that believeth meaning righteousness is imputed to any one that believes. What is righteousness it simply means right standing with God and it comes right after u believe the gospel righteousness is a gift it cannot be taken back Romans 5;18 defines righteousness as a gift ,

why do we still SIN because its ur spirit that gets born again not ur soul not ur bdy your soul is were u av ur brain it remains the same when u become born again all the evil things u knew before u got born again still remains,thats where renewing your mind comes in, in the church at Corinth we find believers committing terrible things one was even sleeping wt his fathers wife what did paul tell them he rebuked them but never dd he say your condemned or ur going to hell for this ... if it was in the old testament the penalty is death u will b stoned,

what is SIN lets hear from the bible rom 14:23 says whatsoever is not of faith is sin,meaning even your doubts ur worry fear etc is SIN


so back to the passage you quoted James 2;14-16 what james is saying is exercise your faith you have, faith without works is dead let me give you an example if GOD says ur healed but u dont believe you are not working in faith,that is the work he s referring to,always allow the bible to interpret itself,dont import your own understanding into it,GOD told Abraham to sacrifice his son he acted on it,that is the works james is talking about and james never said condemnation awaits you or hell is waiting for u,he simply is saying do good help people its an admonition

finally...the bible cannot contradict itself NEVER,the bible has integrity if GOD says he has given u eternal life he has given u,dont duobt dont struggle with it for doubting your salvation is saying Jesus did nothing on the cross ,wherever u see a seemingly contradicting statements study very well you will get the understanding just be patient bible study is different from mere reading of bible bible study is painstaking you have to take note of figure of speech,coma, full stop, etc when u study ask who is this passage referring to why is the person saying it etc u dont js open to a passage read two lines n close the bible back u will run into error

after all said if some people still feel SIN will take you to hell n they want to b guarding their salvation all the way till they die its your choice, set yourself free today for sin consciousness is a plague affecting the church, sinless perfection is a doctrine from HELL GOD does not record SIN For it is said in Rom 4:8/ Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. and that man is you and i

I CALL U BLESSED
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by shadeyinka(m): 9:54pm On May 14
Iroroghene:



What do say about those who departed from the way of the LORD like Demas and returned like the parable of the Prodigal son, are you saying they can come back to God after recognizing their sinfulness state?

Haven't they lost their salvation and wouldn't the LORD restore it if they ask him to?
Whenever you hear about Eternal security, what the likes of you hear (in error is)
1. If you are saved, your have been given the license to sin at will!
BUT
This is very wrong. Anyone who lives in sin is not yet a new creation hence not saved. Being saved is not calling Jesus Lord, it is Living one's life totally for Jesus!
2. If you are saved, you can commit ANY sin with no repercussions on your salvation!
BUT
This is clearly wrong because, There is a sin that leads to death:

1Jn 5:16:
"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it."
3. If you are saved, you can even renounce the Lord Jesus and still make heaven!
BUT
How can a person renounce the Lord and still be the Lord's own?

The Correct position of the Doctrine of Eternal Security is:
1. God knows the end from the beginning
2. Because of God's foreknowledge, He predestined those to be saved to conform to the image of Christ
3. God cannot make a mistake or error in His foreknowledge
4. Therefore, if God has foreknown you as saved, and has conformed you into the image of Christ, you CANNOT loose what God has foreknown the end.

The Question really is are you really SAVED by God?
This is not the same thing as: have you answered to an alter call?

If anyone be in CHRIST, such has become s NEW Creation!

If Demas was of Christ, he wouldnt have left us


1Jn 2:19:
"They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us : but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

So, you see that the position of the scripture is in harmony with the Doctrine of Eternal Security.

It is unfortunate that any time people hear of it, what comes to their mind is licensed to sin . Nothing could be more "wronger"


Chylo:


Your last statement is true: "If a person looses his salvation through any means, he is lost forever."
So if you believe that, why do you then say once saved, always saved?

The illustration you gave of burning your fathers house down is inaccurate. One loses his salvation, when he rejects God (when he disowns his Father), the Father never disowns his children. But people can wilfully reject God, having accepted him in the past. God will not force such a person to remain saved. The person has taken an active decision, saying that he doesn't want the Holy Spirit anymore (this is what the scripture means by the unforgivable sin - blaspheming the Spirit).

We need to be very watchful. Teaching once saved, always saved is unscriptural even by your own admission. We should teach the "assurance of salvation" instead. We should teach that when we are saved, we have security in Christ and we can be free from sin guiltiness BUT it can be lost if we reject Christ later wilfully by our actions. And when that happens, we become damned and unable to return.

1 Like

Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Agrogbeide: 7:16am On May 15
ojhandsome:




Am not saying anything different...brotherly NOTHING can take a christian to hell what takes a people to hell is unbelief in the gospel meaning unbelief in Jesus like i said john 3 16 says it all.... pple saying sin will take a believer to hell dont understand the implication of what they are saying...if SIN can take a believer to hell then ALL Christians are going to hell nobody is righteous by self efforts NON ur made righteous by what Jesus did on the cross any christian who is trying to be accepted by GOD by works eg not telling lies abstaining from illicit sex etc is already committing sin, is it right to abstain from sin yes absolutely. but is that what makes u righteous NO Abraham did alot of rubbish slept with his maid told a lie that sarah was his sister n not his wife GOD never called him out for it WHY? because there was NO law at that time, and where there is no law sin cannot be charged against you,the law doesnt exist anymore after jesus died Romans 10:4 Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth ...take note of righteousness to everyone that believeth meaning righteousness is imputed to any one that believes. What is righteousness it simply means right standing with God and it comes right after u believe the gospel righteousness is a gift it cannot be taken back Romans 5;18 defines righteousness as a gift ,

why do we still SIN because its ur spirit that gets born again not ur soul not ur bdy your soul is were u av ur brain it remains the same when u become born again all the evil things u knew before u got born again still remains,thats where renewing your mind comes in, in the church at Corinth we find believers committing terrible things one was even sleeping wt his fathers wife what did paul tell them he rebuked them but never dd he say your condemned or ur going to hell for this ... if it was in the old testament the penalty is death u will b stoned,

what is SIN lets hear from the bible rom 14:23 says whatsoever is not of faith is sin,meaning even your doubts ur worry fear etc is SIN


so back to the passage you quoted James 2;14-16 what james is saying is exercise your faith you have, faith without works is dead let me give you an example if GOD says ur healed but u dont believe you are not working in faith,that is the work he s referring to,always allow the bible to interpret itself,dont import your own understanding into it,GOD told Abraham to sacrifice his son he acted on it,that is the works james is talking about and james never said condemnation awaits you or hell is waiting for u,he simply is saying do good help people its an admonition

finally...the bible cannot contradict itself NEVER,the bible has integrity if GOD says he has given u eternal life he has given u,dont duobt dont struggle with it for doubting your salvation is saying Jesus did nothing on the cross ,wherever u see a seemingly contradicting statements study very well you will get the understanding just be patient bible study is different from mere reading of bible bible study is painstaking you have to take note of figure of speech,coma, full stop, etc when u study ask who is this passage referring to why is the person saying it etc u dont js open to a passage read two lines n close the bible back u will run into error

after all said if some people still feel SIN will take you to hell n they want to b guarding their salvation all the way till they die its your choice, set yourself free today for sin consciousness is a plague affecting the church, sinless perfection is a doctrine from HELL GOD does not record SIN For it is said in Rom 4:8/ Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. and that man is you and i

I CALL U BLESSED

You are indeed blessed.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Profmaojo: 1:09pm On May 15
Yinyeon:



That’s where you guys get it all wrong, a true Christian would never love to Sin the way an unbeliever does and Yes, it feels horrible when you do!
A true Christian would never think to take advantage of God’s Grace, regardless.

There might be a point in every Christian’s life that he back slides, but oh God comes to discipline His own and put them back on the Narrow way.

The New Testament plainly states that God does judge His people, meaning that He brings loving discipline and correction, sometimes sternly. And while it is gloriously true that our sins are forgiven in Jesus, there can be still consequences to our sins in this life, just as an alcoholic forgiven for decades of drinking may still develop cirrhosis of the liver.


yes God will discipline them, but what if they refuse to change.. Note: there is always room for repentance ok but when an individual choose not to accept changes or come back to Christ..will the person go to heaven or not?... Will the individual be forever saved?
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by alBHAGDADI: 2:50pm On May 15
Profmaojo:
yes God will discipline them, but what if they refuse to change.. Note: there is always room for repentance ok but when an individual choose not to accept changes or come back to Christ..will the person go to heaven or not?... Will the individual be forever saved?



Yes.

Romans 4:5 (KJV)
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by shadeyinka(m): 3:13pm On May 15
Profmaojo:
yes God will discipline them, but what if they refuse to change.. Note: there is always room for repentance ok but when an individual choose not to accept changes or come back to Christ..will the person go to heaven or not?... Will the individual be forever saved?
It is possible to see a dirty cat!
It is possible to see a clean pig!

But there is a big difference:
One has a nature of enjoying Filth
The other has the nature of Cleanliness

What happens if a pig is washed, cleaned, perfumed and sanitizer and taken to live within Sheraton Hotel for five years.
If this pig is given an opportunity to go out into the slums with plenty of muddy water, would the pig come home clean?

What happens if a pig is converted miraculously into a cat, given an opportunity to live in Sheraton for one week and then released to go into the slums with muddy waters. Do you think the Cat is likely to come home clean?

The problem we have in the church is that we have many untransformed but clean looking pigs. When they now wallow in mud, we question their salvation. But the question is really: were they really transformed from pig to cat or they just recited the sinners prayer?
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by Chylo(m): 6:24am On May 16
shadeyinka:

It is possible to see a dirty cat!
It is possible to see a clean pig!

But there is a big difference:
One has a nature of enjoying Filth
The other has the nature of Cleanliness

What happens if a pig is washed, cleaned, perfumed and sanitizer and taken to live within Sheraton Hotel for five years.
If this pig is given an opportunity to go out into the slums with plenty of muddy water, would the pig come home clean?

What happens if a pig is converted miraculously into a cat, given an opportunity to live in Sheraton for one week and then released to go into the slums with muddy waters. Do you think the Cat is likely to come home clean?

The problem we have in the church is that we have many untransformed but clean looking pigs. When they now wallow in mud, we question their salvation. But the question is really: were they really transformed from pig to cat or they just recited the sinners prayer?

My brother, you are correct. There is a lot of false conversion going on in the church today.
That is why I asked you the question: at what point is a person saved?
Some would have us believe this happens when you answer altar call and repeat after the pastor, but that is so wrong. In fact that method should be phased out totally. Let the sinner cry out to God himself for salvation from the depth of his conviction.
Some will say what if he doesn't know how to pray? My answer will be, have you ever seen a baby who doesn't know how to suck breast?
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by shadeyinka(m): 7:18am On May 16
Chylo:


My brother, you are correct. There is a lot of false conversion going on in the church today.
That is why I asked you the question: at what point is a person saved?
Some would have us believe this happens when you answer altar call and repeat after the pastor, but that is so wrong. In fact that method should be phased out totally. Let the sinner cry out to God himself for salvation from the depth of his conviction.
Some will say what if he doesn't know how to pray? My answer will be, have you ever seen a baby who doesn't know how to suck breast?
The truth is that we are not saved by sinners prayer but by Faith expressed without hearts and mouth. The church Fathers distilled it into its essential ingredients which consists of two parts
1. Accepting Jesus as Saviour (atonement for Sin)
2. Accepting Jesus as Lord (doing His Commandments)

A lot during alter calls do the first while rejecting the second.

Maybe its not the fault of the new convert but of the person leading him to Christ presenting only half part of the message of salvation devoid of Christ's Lordship.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by solite3(m): 1:45pm On May 16
Salvation is the work of God from beginning to end.
Jesus died taking away our sins, his blood was the price for our redemption.

When a man believes in christ, He does so because he is sinner who cannot save himself. He knew he will perish if God does not save him.
His part is to trust God but God's part is to save him.
At the moment he belives on Jesus Christ,
1. His sins are forgiven ( forgiven because of christ shed blood)
2. He is justified (declared righteous on account of what Christ has done)
3.He is regenerated (Reborn spiritually)
4. Because he is regenerated he is already sanctified.(made holy)
5.by virtue of his regenerated state as a new creature he is righteous (partaking in God's righteous nature)
6. He is sanctified continuously through the word of God to reflect the nature of the inner man outward.
7. He is preserved by God. ( this is to prevent him from falling away from Christ)

On the beliver part
He trust on the finished work of christ and accept the gift of righteousness by Jesus christ.
Also the bible admonish believers to continue to work out their salvation.

This is done by reflecting outwardly the santification work of God in him.
More like as God build him up innerly, he reflect it outwardly.
This will be an evidence that he is truly saved.

Note working out your salvation is not same as working for your salvation.
In the former one is working the evidence of his salvation out because he is saved but in the latter one is strughling to attain salvation.
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by BdorianGray(m): 7:51pm On May 16
Yinyeon:


Work based salvation is the downfall of anyone who claims to be saved.
But then, a true Christian would know that.

Our works are useless, although they are evidence of true salvation.

We are saved by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ alone.

What do u mean by work.. Do u seem to know what u saying
Re: "Once Saved, Forever Saved": Wrong And Unscriptural! by BdorianGray(m): 7:59pm On May 16
Yinyeon:


Every Christian knows that God forgives all Sin and I mean All.
No Christian will stop to think that God doesn't forgive all Sin but it still didn't stop is from feeling terrible when we fo fall into Sin.

He discipline us so that the fruit of Salvation becomes evident in us once again and not to bring us back into Salvation for once we are there, there we will be forever.

Please quit with all these mere sophisms and polemics, it won't help you or anyone.. You are still in the realm of the 3rd dimensional intellectual analysis.
Develop your 4th unit of reasoning and see a whole new spiritual vista open up to you..

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