Born2Breed:


It's easy to attack me because you have never seen what some teachers do to kids in the name of discipline.

There are various form of discipline not flogging with anger cos that's what most of these teacher does. They pour out their frustration on kids.
I'm even being lenient by that action i stated previously If this is meted on my kid.

SUPERPACK:
if you're not a teacher you have no right to take part in this argument, understanding one child is easy and less time consuming, how do you go about understanding about 60 students in a crowded class from different parental background.
how do you understand the bullies and the quiet ones, if you want to stop flogging in Nigerian schools the best approach is to reduce the pupil to teacher ratio which is getting out of hand, taking care of one child is far different from taking care of a community it's same approach

Born2Breed:


It's easy to attack me because you have never seen what some teachers do to kids in the name of discipline.

There are various form of discipline not flogging with anger cos that's what most of these teacher does. They pour out their frustration on kids.
I'm even being lenient by that action i stated previously If this is meted on my kid.

Kingosytex:


My town man does that. He has a particular room in his house in America that he labelled "NIGERIA", if any of his kids misbehaves, he takes that person straight into "NIGERIA" and deal with him. This sounds funny but true.

Ugosample:


your last paragraph is wrong

my mother pushed out many babies

and she smacked us at intervals

better smacking

my paternal grandma gave birth to many
and she smacked well well too

so that point of "pushing baby bla bla bla" is invalid

that said

I am somewhat on the fence when it comes to smacking kids...
only parents should have the right to smack kids (that is if you must smack)


and moderation is the key when smacking

because Nigerians have abused smacking and its now transferred aggression
there has to be some regulation in place against such

But the good ole smacking your head with newspaper (my father favourite then ) a knock on the head and other soft targets etc is not out of order if you ask me.

JuanDeDios:

See who's not reading between the lines now. Yes, guns should be outlawed in any relationship between a policeman and an unarmed citizen.

Last line is the mistake you people keep making - that any of this talk is Western. No. Human values, human rights, etc., are universal, even if some societies have so far made more progress at codifying them than others. I know someone who was depressed and people accused her of being oyinbo!

I agree that different things will work for different kids. But have you ever seen a teacher finding out what works for kids and disciplining them accordingly? No - they take the cane to every kid that misbehaves or fails to show up with some fee. Why? Because caning is always done in ANGER. Ask any mother you see caning her child, she'll tell you it's because she wants to correct the child. But check her temperament at that moment, and all you'll see is anger.

The real issue for me, though, is whether caning works. Here in Nigeria there are some who will tell you they were never caned - are they worse off? In the absence of any scientific study on the matter here, the anecdotal evidence is clear that caning does not make kids turn out better. The one thing it achieves is that it makes parenting less time-consuming - you don't have to REASON or DISCUSS or NEGOTIATE with the child - just cane him and go back to pilling egusi or watching TV. This is intuitive, it's the lazy man's approach to parenting. Good parenting is not intuitive - it takes deliberate efforts.

chrismex:




Thank you may God bless you. You said it all. The discipline we experienced in our days is no more. that's why things are bad to this extent. I pity those saying will should ban flogging, must we copy white in everything, our way of discipline culture is far different from the white. Look at what is happening over there country. Must we copy everything.

The white banned flogging and punishment as an abuse but approve the sell of guns, is that not stupid. You banned the primary foundation of stopping them to become wayward then, you approve guns for them for self defence, tell me what do you expect. they have destroyed there nation now they want to destroy Africa.

Yes we are corrupt wicked but the one thing which white envy us is our culture and traditional discipline the respect we have. Look at our youth today no shame they post there nudes online, without shame and fear of there family. Ooo we are doomed, sometimes I just tell myself maybe it's better I don't give birth because training a child in this generation requires alot and God intervention.those days only eyes alone you have understood the message your parents is sending. Who are you to go to school late.

I really love most Asian countries for one thing they never allowed the west to pollute there mind when it comes to there culture tradition and moral values.


That some teachers abuse it those not mean it should stop. Ask yourself will your child just be flogged for know reason. If you know the flogging has turned to abuse. You are a parent report the teacher,and let the authorities take over.

ornicus:
yes, all the wonderful beatings have made us wonderful nigerians and world class leaders , not so?

i'm sure the yahoo boys, ritual u murderers, gang rapists , thieving politicians, fulani herdsmen, armed robbers, killer policemen, sars , drug dealers etc were never flogged in their childhood.

look around you and you can see the benefits of corporal punishment everywhere

laura ikeji much as i loathe her, is right.

all most of this beating does is reinforce a mindset that violence , solves all problems

and violence is the last refuge of the incompetent

that is why you see people , well dressed in a car accident immediately begin fighting. because that is what they have been taught by beatings
that is why youth corpers will go into an office to seize [steal] computers
that is why frustrated parents are beating their kids to death.

we see them on this forum too, unable to make an argument without threats of violence and i will deal with you.

you want to see what beatings do to a person - watch how tacha of bbn relates versus the way mike relates
that is what beating ultimately does, and we see it everywhere. we are all aggressive and violent

benji93:
My brother, you can only punish a child cos you detest what he/she has done, that equates to some form of annoyance. That being said, IMO we can not entirely put aside caning students at the moment(it should not be banned) especially in the government schools. Since most students that attend government institutions are poor, there is a higher risk of exposure to a lot of vices hence a tendency to be delinquent. Issues like this fall into the grew area category. It is neither black nor white, neither is it right or wrong. All of it comes down to the kind of lives we live generally in this country. The correlation between corporal punishment and violent, dishonest or fraudulent tendencies is not quite clear. We cannot put forth the opinion that since corporal punishment is still frequently being used and we are involving ourselves in all sorts of violent, fraudulent or devious activities they must be a direct correlation. Other factors might be contributing-poor living conditions, unemployment e.t.c. I believe that as Nigeria changes, especially in its general living conditions our management of misbehaviours committed by our wards will evolve. I am saying this cos i was really troublesome while i was growing up- I don't know what would have happened if my father had not punished me the way it did. I sometimes look back at some specific incidents-misbehaviour/punishment- and conclude that some of the punishments were a little too much, but you see, what can be defined as too much? my father was not a psychologist to know that. .A better education generally, better living conditions might be the only way to combat excessive application of corporal punishment. As we learned from psychology about operant conditioning, since you need a combination of reinforcements, punishments and time to instill a habit into someone, the best way to cause the expresser to change the way he expresses is by conditioning him in time. I would think most private schools have outlawed caning that anyway.

Angelfrost:


You see what I am talking about... That picture you chose to put up was done by the father of that child in the confines of their home.

Teachers are trained to apply discipline within lawful and sensible limits... Except you are talking about untrained teachers in mushroom schools...

Like I mentioned, some kids are naturally mild mannered and submissive, making it easy to raise them on words and light spanking... But, some are naturally stubborn, and sparing the rod will bring forth catastrophic results in future... I am not writing fiction, I write from experience. A lot of successful people actually confirmed they would have gone astray had their parents been unduly lenient with them.

Well, what works for you won't work for everyone else... If you feel the "American white style" of raising kids will produce model citizens, then go for it... But, don't conclude that to be the standard. When I see parents negotiating with kids as young as 3 or 4, I just shake my head... I warned my aunt about this with regards to my cousins then, she asked me to shut it... Well, today she has fraudsters and delinquents to deal with.

...And regarding my signature, there is no irony at all... Disciplining my kids within the moral, humane, and sensible boundary is not messing with them. Please, don't try to be deliberately misleading.

sinaj:
Most african kids are well behaved compared to their white counterpart all thanks to flogging and punishment.

In as much as some parents and teachers abuse it same way drugs are abused, it shouldnt be taken away.

Before talking about making it illegal or having government taking people's kids, let her ask herself if the family court or social welfare unit is even effective. Is the government even capable of taking care of people's children?

She can as well experiment with her child here in naija or volunteer to teach in any high school in America to understand better before calling for the government to arrest parents that flog their kids.

JuanDeDios:

Brilliant submissions. It is my view that caning is black and white wrong and is not effective. But I agree that phasing it out of public schools at this time can create problems since most of the kids there just won't get it. The fact is that children raised with the cane tend not to take you seriously until you cane them - it's a conditioning. Thus only a holistic approach - where both parents and teachers stop using the cane while adopting more deliberate methods - would work. So for now, we can only keep debating it.

I was caned as a kid. I wish my parents had TALKED more. I've no doubt talking to me would have worked better. But they did the best as they knew it. We, however, know better. Or we ought to.

JuanDeDios:

Ok.

In terms of evil, corruption, kidnapping, fraud, armed robbery, lying, bad parenting, lateness, bad work ethics and every other index of measuring the badness of human beings, Nigeria is turning out better adults than those white countries, right?

Kingosytex:
Yeye de smell. She think say na America be dis?


If you spare the rod, you spoil the child.

Flier:
It’s illegal in most states but they still beat them anyway
Most Nigerian parent would be happy if federal takes their children

needful:
Am gonna talk about this flogging using myself as a case study.

I came out from a family of 9 and am second to the last. My dad is a very disciplined man who beat at a slightest mistake. Being second to the last born, i did something wrong one day and he immediately rushed to flog me with his belt and I quickly screamed " Dad wait" and he suddenly stopped. I asked him one question that touched everyone" dad why do u deserve joy in beating ur children at a slightest mistake, what happend to correction and advice without beating. Dad did u even bother to ask me why I did that before beating me up. My elder siblings u had been beating right from small, has their life turned any better or change for good?. My dad quickly ran back to his room and was so afraid to even face me as a father for days, did I tell us that I was just 9yrs old then. That was the end of beating in my house. I grew up with my younger sis and one of my bro without dad touching us for one day and I can authoritatively tell u that our lives are different. We grew up and got married all of us, one xmas, all of us came back home. Dad was watching our parenting, he realised that I never touched my kids and they behave differently and ask lots of questions why things are done the way they are, the ones he beat hail out of their head beats at a slightest mistake just like him and their kids already got used to the beating and sees nothing wrong in it.

One evening, a brother was asking me why I do not beat my kids yet they hear whenever I say stop, i told him because I had different way of punishing them , so they cant predict what ever punishment I might give, he screamed, no wonder, my kids already got used to his beating and doesnt fear again. My dad called us one morning and guess what his advice was? , he apologised to the elderly ones over his beating and told them that it was a very bad parenting to flog ur kids and advised them to copy my method of parenting. So why we are at home, I discipline one child that belongs to my brother, ask me what I did. He did something very wrong, and I simply bought a chocolate candy and gave to everyone without giving him, he cried for more than 30minutes over that and at the end, once I said, dont, everyone will keep quiet because they cant predict what i can do. Morale of the story, flogging ur child simply make them brave to withstand any hard treatment thereby believing in violence and this is the reason why naija kids are used to flogging and it doesnt stop them from committing any evil on their mind.

needful:
Am gonna talk about this flogging using myself as a case study.

I came out from a family of 9 and am second to the last. My dad is a very disciplined man who beat at a slightest mistake. Being second to the last born, i did something wrong one day and he immediately rushed to flog me with his belt and I quickly screamed " Dad wait" and he suddenly stopped. I asked him one question that touched everyone" dad why do u deserve joy in beating ur children at a slightest mistake, what happend to correction and advice without beating. Dad did u even bother to ask me why I did that before beating me up. My elder siblings u had been beating right from small, has their life turned any better or change for good?. My dad quickly ran back to his room and was so afraid to even face me as a father for days, did I tell us that I was just 9yrs old then. That was the end of beating in my house. I grew up with my younger sis and one of my bro without dad touching us for one day and I can authoritatively tell u that our lives are different. We grew up and got married all of us, one xmas, all of us came back home. Dad was watching our parenting, he realised that I never touched my kids and they behave differently and ask lots of questions why things are done the way they are, the ones he beat hail out of their head beats at a slightest mistake just like him and their kids already got used to the beating and sees nothing wrong in it.

One evening, a brother was asking me why I do not beat my kids yet they hear whenever I say stop, i told him because I had different way of punishing them , so they cant predict what ever punishment I might give, he screamed, no wonder, my kids already got used to his beating and doesnt fear again. My dad called us one morning and guess what his advice was? , he apologised to the elderly ones over his beating and told them that it was a very bad parenting to flog ur kids and advised them to copy my method of parenting. So why we are at home, I discipline one child that belongs to my brother, ask me what I did. He did something very wrong, and I simply bought a chocolate candy and gave to everyone without giving him, he cried for more than 30minutes over that and at the end, once I said, dont, everyone will keep quiet because they cant predict what i can do. Morale of the story, flogging ur child simply make them brave to withstand any hard treatment thereby believing in violence and this is the reason why naija kids are used to flogging and it doesnt stop them from committing any evil on their mind.

ornicus:
yes, all the wonderful beatings have made us wonderful nigerians and world class leaders , not so?

i'm sure the yahoo boys, ritual u murderers, gang rapists , thieving politicians, fulani herdsmen, armed robbers, killer policemen, sars , drug dealers etc were never flogged in their childhood.

look around you and you can see the benefits of corporal punishment everywhere

laura ikeji much as i loathe her, is right

all most of this beating does is reinforce a mindset that violence , solves all problems

and violence is the last refuge of the incompetent

that is why you see people , well dressed in a car accident immediately begin fighting. because that is what they have been taught by beatings
that is why youth corpers will go into an office to seize [steal] computers

that is why frustrated parents are beating their kids to death.

we see them on this forum too, unable to make an argument without threats of violence and i will deal with you.

you want to see what beatings do to a person - watch how tacha of bbn relates versus the way mike relates
that is what beating ultimately does, and we see it everywhere. we are all aggressive and violent

ThothHermes:
This is saddening but unsurprising. The average Nigerian is always looking for a way to advance himself immorally. A Nigerian will defraud you at the first opportunity.
I think the answer to your question is complex. Probably deserves a thread of its own.
The problem is our values. Our value system is decrepit.
The only thing we hold dear is money. Mammon is our god. As long as you are rich you will get away with anything. Everyone wants that kind of freedom. So they become willing to do anything to get that money.
A gradual erosion of moral values is why we are at this point.
Just take a look at the things music artistes glorify in their songs. They give impressionable youths a false idea of success and they think they have to achieve that success however possible.
Worse still is that no one will question you when you finally make the money.
Nigeria is the only country I know where sudden wealth is not questioned.
Can you imagine Hushpuppi and company doing what they do in your country?

It's a complex issue really. But the summary of it is that our value system has broken down totally.

ornicus:


So much for the benefits of corporal punishment. If only it actually had some effect on the moral fiber of Nigerians. If only it could fix the value system

If only that had beaten hushpuppi as a pikin.

benji93:
You need to be more specific with your arguments. The problem is not with caning, it's with doing it excessively. The reason students won't get it is that the system currently existent, requires it, at least as applied to students in public schools. And my solution for phasing it out is not for teachers and students to say no to it, rather, parents and teachers should be educated to understand the best approach to punishing their wards. So that is a change we will see in the future if students in public schools are properly educated today- parents and teachers of tomorrow. I am constantly referring to public schools cos most students are enrolled in public schools.