MuttleyLaff:
Though I wasnt feigning, I do beg your indulgence if you thought I have. Yes, I have been follwing your line of enquiry, but with all due respect, even you to a certain degree, would admit your line of enquiry, a bit, does bestraddles. So would you then blame me for trying to confirm where and what exactly are we discussing, hmm? I mean no offense

I like the way you clarify your points.
I have a question for you, if you would be honest.

Has God ever failed?

Your answer wil determine by follow up question.

Lordreed

I have interest in this topic. And I will like to invite macof and vaxx1 too.

In a particular Ifa verse, it holds that when Orunmila wanted to visit earth, he couldn't make it down because he had no bones on him and could barely move. So he requested that he possess Ogun (the deity of Iron). His request was allowed, hence if he wants to move around, he aways get ase of strength from Ogunlade. Moreso, Ifa cannot foresee anything without ase from Esu and Ogun. From my own deduction, supernatural beings do not just possess physical bodies only. They possess themselves too. It is about strength and weakness and annexing whatever could be added advantage.

In Isese also, there people we call Iyawo-risa. These people are oftentimes possessed. Their consciousness is hibernated, lose their sensibility, and self control. The spirit takes over the body, relay messages directly to audience, hunt for herbs and perform rituals. There is total switch of personalities.

Consciousness/energy is immaterial/material. In fact, material and immaterial doesn't make sense. There is only existence with limitations. Consciousness only shape and become a figure only when it takes over a physical or another spirit body.

Supernature is an unexplained natural phenomenon. Energy/consciousness, material or immaterial is supernatural, super powerful, and presence. The spirits needs other elements to be relevant in another perspective.

Every one here is making a contribution from a purely human perspective.. When things go bad we blame the devil and when things go well we praise God for it.. That would mean there are 2 powers in the universe. But that is not true.. There is only one power in the universe.. That of the creator of all.. What ever happens whether good or evil, it is God that is responsible.. Both good and evil belongs to God.. All power belongs to God,which includes power to kill, destroy, bless, main... Etc. Any power you can think off belongs to God... There is just nothing that God created that he can't control.. To think otherwise is an insult against the creator..so therefore Angels are demons, demons are angels.. We humans make the distinction based on the job God has given them to do or accomplish. If God sends them to destroy like he did in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah we call them demons, when he sends them to bring good tidings we call them angels.. Both angels or demons work for God.. They only do what God tells them to do...

FOLYKAZE:
Lordreed
I have interest in this topic. And I will like to invite macof and vaxx1 too.

In a particular Ifa verse, it holds that when Orunmila wanted to visit earth, he couldn't make it down because he had no bones on him and could barely move. So he requested that he possess Ogun (the deity of Iron). His request was allowed, hence if he wants to move around, he aways get ase of strength from Ogunlade. Moreso, Ifa cannot foresee anything without ase from Esu and Ogun. From my own deduction, supernatural beings do not just possess physical bodies only. They possess themselves too. It is about strength and weakness and annexing whatever could be added advantage.

In Isese also, there people we call Iyawo-risa. These people are oftentimes possessed. Their consciousness is hibernated, lose their sensibility, and self control. The spirit takes over the body, relay messages directly to audience, hunt for herbs and perform rituals. There is total switch of personalities.

Consciousness/energy is immaterial/material. In fact, material and immaterial doesn't make sense. There is only existence with limitations. Consciousness only shape and become a figure only when it takes over a physical or another spirit body.

Supernature is an unexplained natural phenomenon. Energy/consciousness, material or immaterial is supernatural, super powerful, and presence. The spirits needs other elements to be relevant in another perspective.

Ọrẹ mi, FOLYKAZE, please as much as your contributions along with macof and my other friend vaxx1 are no doubt invaluable sources of information, please dont go off on a tangent, which you already have begun doing with your submission above.

The subject title's topic and theme is about, if extra-terrestrial beings aka celestial beings aka non human angelic beings, aka supernatural beings are better than human beings' bodies, then, why do demons possess humans, so please FOLYKAZE and your invited interlocutors like macof and vaxx1, stick to the subject matter under discourse and help unravel this out of the ordinary scenario painted by OP LordReed's seemingly conundrum.

demons are meant to destroy the human body that doesn't pray, demons possessing the human body doesn't mean what you post,its solely for destruction

sonmvayina:
Every one here is making a contribution from a purely human perspective...

[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]

sonmvayina:
When things go bad we blame the devil and when things go well we praise God for it..

sonmvayina, that might you and/or some others because no one to my knowledge as asserted anything like that yet on this thread

Even I have never heard any praise the devil for it, when things go right or when wrong for anyone. If there exist, then they must be devil worshippers

The garden of Eden even sef, the only blame given to the serpent was for lying to the woman so that she'll prematurely eat of the fruit of the TKGE

sonmvayina:
That would mean there are 2 powers in the universe. But that is not true.. There is only one power in the universe.. That of the creator of all.. What ever happens whether good or evil, it is God that is responsible.. Both good and evil belongs to God.. All power belongs to God,which includes power to kill, destroy, bless, main... Etc. Any power you can think off belongs to God... There is just nothing that God created that he can't control.. To think otherwise is an insult against the creator..so therefore Angels are demons, demons are angels.. We humans make the distinction based on the job God has given them to do or accomplish.

sonmvayina, you're going gung ho about this, and doing as if a bull left loose and going berserk in a china shop.

Fyi, there is sovereign power, there are delegated powers, there is martial law power, there are coup d'état powers, there are transfer of powers, there are jurisdictional powers etcetera. Of course, all powers, any power you can think off belongs to God, but you cannot say human beings, your kids, your wife, your parents, your boss, the devil, demons etcetera dont have powers or dont exercise powers of some sort and to certain extents, lol. You know sonmvayina, that you dont have absolute power of your kids, wife, girlfriend, partner etcetera, lol

sonmvayina:
If God sends them to destroy like he did in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah we call them demons

No, not so fast, they were called angels, never and not called demons

sonmvayina:
... when he sends them to bring good tidings we call them angels..

Angels, whether they are good or bad, whether they are evil or not evil, are without a shadow of doubt plain and simple extra-terrestrial beings aka celestial beings aka non human angelic beings, aka supernatural beings, who are undertaking a task, hence why they are called angels or messengers

sonmvayina:
Both angels or demons work for God.. They only do what God tells them to do...

Extra-terrestrial beings aka celestial beings aka non human angelic beings, aka supernatural beings who are not demons work exclusively for God and have their allegiance to God.

Demons, on the other hand, know their limits and wouldnt necessarily overstep this limit without clearance, authorization and/or approval from God, so in this regards, we can cautiously say demons too sometimes do work for God, but demons hold no allegiance to God, they are a law unto themselves. Their allegiance is to their head honcho leader Satan and so work independently of God

MuttleyLaff:
Ọrẹ mi, FOLYKAZE, please as much as your contributions along with macof and my other friend vaxx1 are no doubt invaluable sources of information, please dont go off on a tangent, which you already have begun doing with your submission above. The subject title's topic and theme is about, if extra-terrestrial beings aka celestial beings aka non human angelic beings, aka supernatural beings are better than human beings bodies, they why do demons possess humans, so please FOLY and invited interlocutors like macof and vaxx1, stick to the subject matter under discourse and help unravel this out of the ordinary scenario painted by OP LordReed's seemingly conundrum.

Queen Elizabeth should employ youas her head secretary. I love the way you write.

Orisa too possess you know. But we will focus on demons. Cheers

FOLYKAZE:
Queen Elizabeth should employ youas her head secretary. I love the way you write.

Orisa too possess you know. But we will focus on demons. Cheers

See, you see what I mean about your legendary invaluable sources of information. No wonder you are one of my favourites, lol and I am not ashamed to say that.

Now, it is interesting stuff like "Orisa, too possesses, you know[" we want to hear about, as that piece of info, does have a connect with what OP LordReed has here tabled. Please FOLYKAZE, free to elaborate on Orisa possession(s), why Orisa possesses, how Orisa possesses, kinds or forms or examples of Orisa posessions, where Orisa possesses, when Orisa possesses, the goal/objectives for an Orisa possession etcetera

Myer:
I like the way you clarify your points.

I lapped up every single one of the 5 pages worth of posts you made and I literally was pissing myself lol reading each of them, one after the other, lol. I stopped stamping likes on your posts because they were just increasingly getting to many for me to keep up, be stamping likes on each, lol, so I just stopped and foxtrot uniform charlie kiloing scratched the whole liking posts idea, lol

Myer:
I have a question for you, if you would be honest.

I feel honoured to be asked to answer your question. Of course, honest, is one of my adopted, lol, middle names, lol

Myer:
Has God ever failed?
Your answer wil determine by follow up question.

Ah my friend, this isnt a simple and straighforward question. It isnt my friend. Honestly speaking, it is way far far from being an easy question, to answer like straightaway or just like that. You see my friend, to start with, failure is relative, and failure is indeed relative when especially talking in relation to God. It is a long long story, if going to talk about it and even besides that failure, is a very fluid concept, lol, please remember that I've said that, lol, but in order not to be accused of equivocating, I'll with all sincerity and 1000% honesty, humbly advance and submit that God doesnt fail. God has never ever failed. Not one word, promises, love of God ever fails nor has ever failed. Failing or failure is not in God's make up and nature. God has never ever failed, as God, has always gotten results, lol.

MuttleyLaff:

Ah my friend, this isnt a simple and straighforward question. It isnt my friend. Honestly speaking, it is way far far from being an easy question, to answer like straightaway or just like that. You see my friend, to start with, failure is relative, and failure is indeed relative when especially talking in relation to God. It is a long long story, if going to talk about it and even besides that failure, is a very fluid concept, lol, please remember that I've said that, lol, but in order not to be accused of equivocating, I'll with all sincerity and 1000% honesty, humbly advance and submit that God doesnt fail. God has never ever failed. Not one word, promises, love of God ever fails nor has ever failed. Failing or failure is not in God's make up and nature. God has never ever failed, as God, has always gotten results, lol.

I understand that admiting that God failed would be a difficult one for you or any other believer. But since you admit it's a difficult question, that's good enough for me. I'll say you're half honest, even though we both know honesty isn't honesty unless it's 100%.

Now to my follow up question.

What is the result that the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus accomplish?

Myer:
I understand that admiting that God failed would be a difficult one for you or any other believer.
[s]But since you admit it's a difficult question[/s], that's good enough for me.
I'll say you're half honest, even though we both know honesty isn't honesty unless it's 100%.

MuttleyLaff:
... in order not to be accused of equivocating, I'll with all sincerity and 1000% honesty, humbly advance and submit that God doesnt fail. God has never ever failed. Not one word, promises, love of God ever fails nor has ever failed. Failing or failure is not in God's make up and nature. God has never ever failed, as God, has always gotten results, lol.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold up, hold up and come 'ere!
Not so fast José, rewind and check the above underlined emboldened and other second emboldened please.
Thank you very much

Myer:
Now to my follow up question.
What is the result that the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus accomplish?

So what's all that above you're playing at, huh?
So much for talking about honesty. Pftt. Smh.

MuttleyLaff:


Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold up, hold up and come 'ere!
Not so fast José, rewind and check the above underlined emboldened and other second emboldened please.
Thank you very much

So what's all that above you're playing at, huh?
So much for talking about honesty. Pftt. Smh.

Where was I dishonest?
I never claimed you admited that God failed. I said you admited it was a difficult question. Which I take to mean there are grey areas you would rather not get into giving the fact that you by reason of your faith cannot admit that God failed. Hence your submission that God never fails.

Having clarified that, you failed to answer the follow up question.

Myer:
Where was I dishonest?

You were dishonest in twisting what I typed and misconstruing it to mean difficult. Trying to earn undeserved brownie points with that

Myer:
I never claimed you admited that God failed. I said you admited it was a difficult question.
Which I take to mean there are grey areas you would rather not get into giving the fact that you by reason of your faith cannot admit that God failed. Hence your submission that God never fails.

How you managed to acquire such marvelling psychic powers, strong enough, that enabled you to successfully and clearly see into my mind, read what's in my head and even read my thoughts is very humbling.

Fyi, what you typed here is nothing but a ship load of codswallop. There are no gray areas for me not to want to get into. My faith has nothing to with talking or not talking about God and failures. I have explicitly and outrightly informed you that, God has never ever failed. Now tell me, what so difficult to copy in that, is there any part in that statement that is not clear cut plain, simple and straigtforward to understand ni?

Learn how to stop making fatal conjectures. Learn how to further ask questions in order to get clarity, so you to avoid speculating, presuming or even guessing people wrongly

Myer:
Having clarified that, you failed to answer the follow up question.

I didnt fail to answer your follow up question nada. I basically refused to entertain your impetuousness, hence the stalemate.

You fall for my hand big time, as I thought you were better than that, having gone through all your past, to date, uploaded posts

MuttleyLaff:
You were dishonest in twisting what I typed and misconstruing it to mean difficult. Trying to earn undeserved brownie points with that.

How managed to acquire such marvelling psychic powers, strong enough, that enabled you to successfully and clearly see into my mind, read what's in my head and even read my thoughts is very humbling. Fyi, what you typed here is nothing but a ship load of codswallop. There are no gray for me not to want to get into. My faith has nothing to with talking or not talking about God and failures. I have explicitly and outrightly informed you that, God has never ever failed. Now tell me, what so difficult to copy in that, is there any part in that statement that is not clear cut plain, simple and straigtforward to understand ni?

Learn how to stop making fatal conjectures. Learn how to further ask questions in order to get clarity, so you to avoid speculating, presuming or even guessing people

I didnt fail to answer your follow up question nada. I basically refused to entertain your impetuousness, hence the stalemate.

You fall for my hand big time, as I thought you were better than that, having gone through all your past, to date, uploaded posts

My intention is not to impress you, hence quit the falling of hand charade.
We're just rubbing minds albeit to educate each other, definitely by arguing facts.

I really don't know why you went through the trouble of reading my posts when you could simply ask me whatever you wanted to know. I hope you found what you were searching for, my Achilles heels perhaps?

Now, my follow-up question is just a proof that God failed.
If the purpose of Christ dying is for the sins of world and his ressurection is victory over death, it seems something went wrong. Don't you think?

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s6/images/ezgif-5-1f7bd5f0d250.gif[/img]
Muah! Muah! Thank you, thank you ....
You made my eyes teary Eviana, you sweet soft and lovely soul.

Your kind words overpowered me with emotions. They meant a lot to me. Thanks again. It was providence and/or divine intervention that made Finallydead's device use Predictive Text, to serendipitously bring up your moniker, so to "invite" to the thread, even if just to be a graceful sidewalk quietly observing pedestrian. God bless, keep you and all that's yours real good, my very dear sister.

It is just disheartening, watching how, not many have a rigorous understanding of each and/or all of what’s being tabled on this thread, but instead they rather opt and go after low hanging knowledge and false premise understanding. I have reached out to Finallydead. We have made contact at the time of posting this, but haven’t yet finalised freeing up to an hour to have a private chat. I am still waiting, though right now feeling sleepy, for him to turn up

I copied your unintentional error, which again sent off a moniker mentioned notification to her

CYM again, I sent another and even an invite to a private chat

Nah, it was no mistake Eviana. It actually, is God, working in mysterious ways sister. Trust me on that, lol

The Predictive Text feature, is an industry standard present on most devices. It is auto enabled, until turned off, on most smartphones and/or tablets. Finallydead wanted to type ”So even God Himself” but instead of “even”, Predictive Text changed it to our sister’s moniker, and Finallydead posted without catching the unintentional, lol

CYM Finallydead please

Humbled by your appreciation. Thank you...
Do you remember that thread back in 2018, I believe that was dealing with Genesis 6:1-4 (the humans/angel "procreation" event)?
You were explaining it very well scripturally-wise and I agreed with you then too...
This is one of those scriptural passages that we agree on.
I also understand that, that scripture passage,
along with some other major passages, is very, very, very controversial.
All I can say is that people pray for the Holy Spirit to lead in true understanding.
Not everything that followers of Christ have been taught for generations, is biblically-sound.

Oh, about the "invite"...well not really an "invite"...from my fellow friend as he said..lol.
I thought it might have been the "predictive" thing at first, but I then, shrugged it off.
I thought he was trying to type, "eventually", lol.

I will though, have to go back from the beginning of the thread to read about Mr. Reed's main topic question...slowly but surely.



MODIFICATION....
SORRY FOLKS...I MADE A GRAMMATICAL ERROR (FOR THOSE THAT HAVE READ IT)THAT I HAD TO FIX. SOMETIMES I WRITE SO QUICKLY OMITTING WORDS OR THOUGHTS THAT I MAY HAVE WANTED TO SAY OR WITHOUT PROOF-READING FIRST, AND THEREFORE MAKE SOME PUNCTUATION, SPELLING OR GRAMMATICAL ERRORS.

Finallydead:
MODIFIED***




O Muttley, for time sake, I'm gonna do this for you quickly but except you can change my mind, I'll end this with agree to disagree, okay? You say I should pull out my ammo, lol. But before I do, Muttley, I'm gonna do again what you know me well for.
You know very well that I like to bolt into threads and bolt out ASAP, not going round and round in circles with scriptures. So before it gets to that, I like to employ the killer question approach before using my ammo.

I'll start a small bonfire, bolt out, and hopefully, if they wish, I'll let petra1 and Nephilim(wonder if he's met some nephs) do the honours of consuming your whole forest of this false doctrine with an inferno. Petra1 is so close to the kingdom but Lordreed keeps obstructing him at the gate, lol. If they both carefully go through all my posts on here, they might end up walking in gracefully, hand in hand, lol, and Lordreed would stop recycling questions already answered.

Now, with most direct answers, Muttley, investigate what I brought up before and you will see clearly.
1.) Tell me bluntly, Muttley. Is it true that the theme of 2Pet2 is that God usually simultaneously annihilates those who apostatise in all kinds of sin, ESPECIALLY(v10) in polluting their flesh while at the same time saving His chosen who keep themselves as in the two instances before given?



2.) Again, is it true that the theme of Jude, similar to 2Pet2, is to warn of the judgement of brethren who use the grace of God for licentiousness(unbridled lust) as in the two instances?
a) Instance no 1: He killed the same people he brought out of Egypt in the wilderness when they fornicated on two occasions.(v5)
b) Instance no 2: He judged (with chains again, these can't be humans) his very own angels who left their heavenly habitation for their fornication(V6)
c) Instance no 3: He judged S&G for the same fornication.(v7)
Therefore he will judge these brothers, though they were once His, for defiling the flesh as in a) and b) (v8)

Note that trying to claim that Peter and Jude were calling this Gen6 event a heresy of false teachers will be one of the most humorous and ineffective mind games played on any intelligent person who reads both texts. Also note that the Greek verb "Tartaroo" used by Peter literally means to put one into a lowest dungeon of hell, which was done to these angels.

3.) If 1&2 are true, then by the mouth of 2&3 witnesses(Moses, Peter and Jude), isn't the story of Gen6 established as an event including the sons of God who were angels as in 1a) and 2b)?

If you like to believe the sons of God in OT were humans, then

4) How is it that these humans presented themselves TOGETHER before God in HEAVEN, even along with Satan before the Lord Jesus came as in Job1&2?

5)How is it possible that these humans, called morning stars(Lucifers), Satan's rank of angels, in Job38:7 were actively singing into the fabric of earth when God laid the cornerstone/foundation of the earth, taking the measurements(v4-6) and when God bounded the seas together(v8) and formed the clouds, ALL which took place long before Adam was made?

6)How is it also possible that it was humans in Gen6 that produced giants who were super powered(might men) and men of name(the legends and myths we have today of supermen)?

7.) Why then did the Jews crucify Jesus accusing Him of calling Himself Son of God, if this was something attributed to previous humans and not God Himself in the flesh?

8.) Why then is the Lord called the only begotten Son of God and the first to lead we humans into sonship through a new birth, if there were already humans who were sons of God?
Note that it is our destiny through Christ to become begotten sons of God after our Lord, to replace the fallen sons of God(including Lucifer) who were not begotten but only manufactured for the position and hence fell.

9) Why then did God have to destroy the whole world in Noah with a flood, only time he has though humans have been sinning before, if not that these superhumans having corrupted genes produced strange flesh and quickly determined to wipe out the pure human genes so there would be no virgin for Messiah and they could rule earth with Satan forever, which flesh also could not be decomposed in the earth, hence to freeze them in the Antarctic(where all the flood water went), being that there was never ice before the flood but only after(Gen8:22)
Take note that contamination of human genes has been Satan's age old plot to rule the world, beginning from his attempt to put his seed in Eve, which because of his fallen form didn't go as planned to produce aberrations, right up to the tribulation with the mark of the beast which transforms the human genes.

10)Can you produce one single scripture that uses the words angels and demons interchangeably?
Take note that Satan is lord of all evil angels and also lord of demons as the god of this world altogether forming a kingdom and working together. So don't produce separate uses of his lordship over them but only interchanging of "demon" and "angel" in the same text.

11)Can you produce a single text in scripture where Satan or any evil angel shares a human body with the host like demons do?
Note that there are spiritual bodies as well as physical(1Cor15:40). All spirits must have a body to rest in whether spiritual or physical.
Demons are disbodied(physical from the flood), hence naked spirits who yearn for a body, like any other disbodied spirit e.g. we in 2Cor5:1-3 and never can rest until they have one(Lk11:24, Mk5:12). However evil angels have bodies which are spiritual, not physical(1Cor15:40) hence never need to share with a human.
If God were to open one's eyes to see a demon or an angel, it will be very clear that demons are ghostly, nauseating, grotesque, like virmin(usually stunted) of the spirit world. While evil angels with their wings and firm bodies are more dignified, though very evil and grim, some humanoid, others not really, generally larger.


[b]Hope this doesn't come as a rude bump to your hyper-emotional, lovey-dovey moment with dear E.viana. She's so soft with her presentations but they can still harm an innocent soul whenever built on falsehood, howbeit I trust she always has better intentions. And please don't let her influence you to run away from ANY single one of these questions, like she gracefully and with great dignity ran from my killer question last time, lol. So many eyes on you, my good friend. Answering each and everyone of them will make you see the light. Good luck with them.
I'll be out now and please pardon me again if I'm AWOL or not too quick to respond for engagements.

P.S: Just saw your text Mutt, I was posting this that's why you saw me, I have so many mails unresponded to Mutt, I'd leave you with this here so it can benefit all. If you want to bless others, do it here my friend.

I was so tickled by the above bolded.
This was so funny because Nigerians are so interesting.....which I already know.
Gotta love my other half of my DNA...no matter how frustrated I get sometimes.
I am so very tickled really.
On that other thread, you told me to "keep quiet" on doctrine that I didn't understand remember?.....
Soooo, I followed your instructions by "running away for good"...lol.

Me control MuttleyLaff enough to make him run away or back down from any religious discussion on this forum? I don't think I've ever seen him do that ever..
Again very hilarious....I am tickled again..lol.
Oh I'm sure your questions will be answered...

However, yes, I am gonna do a "repeat" of what I did on the other thread over here on this thread (although I probably could explain this one a little bit better) and exercise my feminine grace--which I thank God for--and do the following while running:


Proverbs 17:28 (KJV)

28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

Myer:
My intention is not to impress you, hence quit the falling of hand charade.

I dont give a toss what your intention and/or agenda is. I care less about it.

Myer:
We're just rubbing minds albeit to educate each other, definitely by arguing facts.

Sorry to disappoint I dont do argue, if about the former, we'll certainly get on fine, but as for the latter, pfft, not my style, not my cup of tea. No can do

Myer:
I really don't know why you went through the trouble of reading my posts when you could simply ask me whatever you wanted to know. I hope you found what you were searching for, my Achilles heels perhaps?

You are a fast learner, arent you, lol? I'll tell you why. Its because due to the Convenient Virus, it so happens, I suddenly now have loads of time, enough time to want to be snooping around other people's accumulated posts. As for what I found out, you've a wicked sense of humour, you bait, you tease, you even rub it in people's faces, you seemingly are smart, you have a reasonable Bible head knowledge, your Christianity history is relatively up to scratch, your bible interpretation, understanding and/or knowledge is not something to write home about. Sorry about saying that one about Bible interpretation etcetera in that way. You seems to be in the late 20s - mid 40s age range bracket. You sound like a fun loving person and above all you defo are a free spirited individual. I could go on, but why waste the forum's database space with inconsequentials, lol.

Myer:
Now, my follow-up question is just a proof that God failed.
If the purpose of Christ dying is for the sins of world and his ressurection is victory over death, it seems something went wrong. Don't you think?

Nah, no my friend. Never. Every single step of the process, right before even right in there, in Eden, even right before A&E ate the fruit off the TKGE, everything was still right, nothing went wrong, everything was just beautifully going according to plan, lol, my dear new found friend, lol. I've just bit my tongue, to stop me from further talking, lol, telling me to stop and wait to see how you will respond to all I've just typed, lol.

Eviana:
I was so tickled by the above bolded.
This was so funny because Nigerians are so interesting.....which I already know.
Gotta love my other half...no matter how frustrated I get sometimes.
I am so very tickled really.
On that other thread, you told me to "keep quiet" on doctrine that I didn't understand remember?.....
Soooo, I followed your instructions by "running away for good"...lol.

Me control MuttleyLaff enough to make him run away or back down/run away from any religious discussion on this forum? I don't think I've ever seen him do that ever..
Again very hilarious....I am tickled again..lol.
Oh I'm sure your questions will be answered...

However, yes, I am gonna do a "repeat" of what I did on the other thread over here on this thread (although I probably could explain this one a little bit better) and exercise my feminine grace--which I thank God for--and do the following while running:

Proverbs 17:28 (KJV)
28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

Eviana, Nigerians are an interesting and blessed lot in a good and positive way, lol. Trust me, I know because Naija is in my DNA, my blood, lol. I cant believe that Finallydead would tell you to "keep quiet" on doctrine that he presumes you didn't understand. Sounds like he is trying to embrace and employ that misunderstood Apostle Paul's verse about the alleged silence of women, lol smh. Now he is getting the hump and green-eyed over me mentioning your kind-heartedness and expressing appreciation of it. Whats the matter with people huh?

Well, as you've already seen yourself, in that heap Finallydead put up there, he's got in it, more holes than in a swiss cheese, its just plain smh unbelievable. What has begotten Son got to do with son(s) of God. Doesnt Finallydead know what begotten, in the original Greek text, means ni? Has Finallydead not heard or learned about monogenes ni? I invited Finallydead twice for a private chat, but he is dodging and avoiding them. Of course, Finallydead wants to continue living his delusion, lol.

90% of Finallydead's submission was him merely strawmanning me. Quite a lot what Finallydead typed were excruciatingly obscure, unclear and/or unintelligible to follow and plain just misleading. He even, is so blinded by fables, even the Greek mythology didn't raise a red flag up, as warning for Finallydead to see that, hey something is odd in here and think what really is this scripture saying here that I am blinded from seeing, lol. Too much to mention, made me want to throw my hands in the air and give up on him.

Finallydead:
MODIFIED***
11)Can you produce a single text in scripture where Satan or any evil angel shares a human body with the host like demons do?
Note that there are spiritual bodies as well as physical(1Cor15:40). All spirits must have a body to rest in whether spiritual or physical.
Demons are disbodied(physical from the flood), hence naked spirits who yearn for a body, like any other disbodied spirit e.g. we in 2Cor5:1-3 and never can rest until they have one(Lk11:24, Mk5:12). However evil angels have bodies which are spiritual, not physical (1Cor15:40) hence never need to share with a human.
If God were to open one's eyes to see a demon or an angel, it will be very clear that demons are ghostly, nauseating, grotesque, like virmin (usually stunted) of the spirit world. While evil angels with their wings and firm bodies are more dignified, though very evil and grim, some humanoid, others not really, generally larger.

Take this #11 for a case study. What bunkum. Nothing but exaggerated conjecture. What brought on the not backed up with scripture, alleged "... If God were to open one's eyes to see a demon or an angel, it will be very clear that demons are ghostly, nauseating, grotesque, like virmin (usually stunted) ... While evil angels with their wings and firm bodies are more dignified, though very evil and grim, some humanoid, ..." hmm? Where from, if not the pit of hell, did he conjure up this nonsense up from

Why does he even, always enjoys proof-texting, hmm? Every extra-terrestrial beings aka celestial beings aka non human angelic beings, aka supernatural beings are just like God, they are spiritual, they are incorporeal. Why does Finallydead think they want or have a need to share their heavenly bodies with human beings, when all what OP LordReed was asking is why do they despite having a superior body have a need to possess human beings and/or their bodies. Simples and hes gone on different course of his. Smh.

I invited him to a private chatroom, but he's so scared of having his bubble burst, so he is hiding behind the, air it, in the market place for all to hear ploy. First it was, lets agree to disagree, but now when I declined that and gave him a chance to have a private chat, to do a mano o mano that's presented itself, it is then, this next one, hes pulled out from in his bag of running away tricks, lol, smh.

Eviana:
Humbled by your appreciation. Thank you...
Do you remember that thread back in 2018, I believe that was dealing with Genesis 6:1-4 (the humans/angel "procreation" event)?
You were explaining it very well scripturally-wise and I agreed with you then too...
This is one of those scriptural passages that we agree on.
I also understand that, that scripture passage, along with some other major passages, is very, very, very controversial.
All I can say is that people pray for the Holy Spirit to lead in true understanding.

I didnt realise you posted this, lol

No, tbh, I dont remember the thread. I am so bad at remembering things like that. I'll give you an example, friend of mine many years ago, just got married and it was me, that helped take his newly wedded wife and him, to the airport to catch the flight for their honeymoon. Fast forward few years later, down the line, we met up again after a few good number of years losing staying in touch. My friend was telling his missus, remember it was me that drove them to the airport for going on their honeymoon. She answered back, in affirmative, saying, yeah, yeah, she does remember, but guess what, I didnt. I didnt even know I did, talkless remember I took them to the airport, lol.

I hardly talk about the real meaning of "sons of God", lol. I rarely, except on one-on-one, do exegesis and hermeneutics on it and on all them Job 1:6, Job 2:1 and Job 38:7, plus even Genesis 6:2 and 6:4 verses associated with the phrase, lol. That one episode, that you remembered, prolly was, maybe one of an isolated one-offs, of me publicly and especially in a rowdy/noisy market place like, as in here, lol, doing anything like that, lol.

Eviana:
Not everything that followers of Christ have been taught for generations, are biblically-sound.
I will though, have to go back from the beginning of the thread to read about Mr. Reed's main topic question...slowly but surely.

Gbam! Word!
No diggity, the emboldened.

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]

sonmvayina, that might you and/or some others because no one to my knowledge as asserted anything like that yet on this thread

Even I have never heard any praise the devil for it, when things go right or when wrong for anyone. If there exist, then they must be devil worshippers

The garden of Eden even sef, the only blame given to the serpent was for lying to the woman so that she'll prematurely eat of the fruit of the TKGE

sonmvayina, you're going gung ho about this, and doing as if a bull left loose and going berserk in a china shop.

Fyi, there is sovereign power, there are delegated powers, there is martial law power, there are coup d'état powers, there are transfer of powers, there are jurisdictional powers etcetera. Of course, all powers, any power you can think off belongs to God, but you cannot say human beings, your kids, your wife, your parents, your boss, the devil, demons etcetera dont have powers or dont exercise powers of some sort and to certain extents, lol. You know sonmvayina, that you dont have absolute power of your kids, wife, girlfriend, partner etcetera, lol

No, not so fast, they were called angels, never and not called demons

Angels, whether they are good or bad, whether they are evil or not evil, are without a shadow of doubt plain and simple extra-terrestrial beings aka celestial beings aka non human angelic beings, aka supernatural beings, who are undertaking a task, hence why they are called angels or messengers

Extra-terrestrial beings aka celestial beings aka non human angelic beings, aka supernatural beings who are not demons work exclusively for God and have their allegiance to God.

Demons, on the other hand, know their limits and wouldnt necessarily overstep this limit without clearance, authorization and/or approval from God, so in this regards, we can cautiously say demons too sometimes do work for God, but demons hold no allegiance to God, they are a law unto themselves. Their allegiance is to their head honcho leader Satan and so work independently of God

You still have much to learn?. Where did you get the idea that Satan is a dual opposite of God or is independent of God... Continue.. Just do a good unbiased research on your answers... You are getting there quite alright.

Demons and angels are nothing but personification of natural laws and principles....

There is NO such things as extra terrestrial

LordReed:
Why do they need them?

There is NOTHING like demons. it is euroncetric conception . what exist only is human being and supernatural being . and It is extremely important that you realize that this supernatural beings are not divinities just living out in the sky or some other place that you placate. The beings live WITHIN YOU.and you are both physical and spiritual organs within your body.

it is human being who becomes supernatural

The very first Odu, Eji Ogbe, tells us:
"Orunmila wi eniyan ni dorisa."
This translates as,
"Orunmila said human beings transform into orisa."

sonmvayina:
You still have much to learn?.

sonmvayina, you still have much to learn that learning only stops when you're six feet under, lol

sonmvayina:
Where did you get the idea that Satan is a dual opposite of God

Where did you get the idea that I've said, that Satan is a dual opposite of God, hmm?

sonmvayina:
or is independent of God...

[img]https://s3/images/ObamaMuttley.gif[/img]
Oh oh. Siddon there, begin ask me.

I am not even going to bother to dignify answering this comment. Smh.

sonmvayina:
Continue.. Just do a good unbiased research on your answers... You are getting there quite alright.

Is it strawmanning season again yet, lol?

sonmvayina:
Demons and angels are nothing but personification of natural laws and principles....

You've just abused the correct way of using personification and utterly misused the word. Smh.

OK, let's find out then:
1/ How do you mean, demons and celestial beings are personification of natural laws and principles?
2/ Give and/or show me a 2 to 3 examples of demons' and celestial beings' personifications of natural laws and principles

sonmvayina:
There is NO such things as extra-terrestrial

1/ Why according to you sonmvayina, is there no such thing as extra-terrestrial?
2/ Is there to your knowledge and understanding, anything like super-natural being though sonmvayina, hmm?
3/ What to your knowledge and understanding, are demons sef sonmvayina? Are they corporeal or the are incorporeal beings?
4/ What to your knowledge and understanding, are demons sonmvayina? Are demons, celestial beings or they are terrestial being?

vaxx1:
There is NOTHING like demons. it is euroncetric conception. what exist only is human being and supernanatural being . and It is extremely important that you realize that this supernatural beings are not divinities just living out in the sky or some other place that you placate. The beings live WITHIN YOU.and you are both physical and spiritual organs within your body.

it is human being who becomes supernatural

The very first Odu, Eji Ogbe, tells us:
"Orunmila wi eniyan ni dorisa."
This translates as,
"Orunmila said human beings transform into orisa."

vaxx1 baba ooo! Aboru Aboye baba ooo, lol.

C'mon. How is demon, an eurocentric concept please?
What, just I have above asked FOLYKAZE is orisa? You would have read what FOLYKAZE wrote about Orisa possesions? You also would have seen how I asked about the dynamicisms of this intriguingly Orisa possessions. Please feel free to shed more light, refute, compliment or even improve on what or all FOLYKAZE had up there previously typed

MuttleyLaff:
vaxx1 baba ooo! Aboru Aboye baba ooo, lol.

That greetings does not belongs to me. I am not babalawo. I am just a student that is willing to learn. therefore I am still a learner.

C'mon. How is demon, an eurocentric concept please?
What, just I have above asked FOLYKAZE is orisa? You would have read what FOLYKAZE wrote about Orisa possesions? You also would have seen how I asked about the dynamicisms of this intriguingly Orisa possessions. Please feel free to shed more light, refute, compliment or even improve on what or all FOLYKAZE had up there previously typed

For every word, there is always a foundation...The word demons comes from the greek word daimon. it either mean "spirit" or "divinity". The Catholic Church has inherited much of Greco-Roman paganism, in epoch, to please the new followers. With the Councils there was much adaptation. And the word demon now means the evil creatures or the opposite of biblical god. Aka. ( fallen angels , As we can see, in the Middle Ages this idea was used to dominate the faithful by fear, for the same pay the tithe. The only supernatural being is you . The demon does not exist.


for the second question, just to avoid repetition.
I have created a thread on how to awaken orisa on my vaxx moniker... I will look for it and post it here.

https://www.nairaland.com/4398042/how-awaken-orisa.


for those willing to learn...

MuttleyLaff:
sonmvayina, you still have much to learn that learning only stops when you're six feet under, lol

Where did you get the idea that I've said, that Satan is a dual opposite of God, hmm?

[img]https://s3/images/ObamaMuttley.gif[/img]
Oh oh. Siddon there, begin ask me.

I am not even going to bother to dignify answering this comment. Smh.

Is it strawmanning season again yet, lol?

You've just abused the correct way of using personification and utterly misused the word. Smh.

OK, let's find out then:
1/ How do you mean, demons and celestial beings are personification of natural laws and principles?
2/ Give and/or show me a 2 to 3 examples of demons' and celestial beings' personifications of natural laws and principles

1/ Why according to you sonmvayina, is there no such thing as extra-terrestrial?
2/ Is there to your knowledge and understanding, anything like super-natural being though sonmvayina, hmm?
3/ What to your knowledge and understanding, are demons sef sonmvayina? Are they corporeal or the are incorporeal beings?
4/ What to your knowledge and understanding, are demons sonmvayina? Are demons, celestial beings or they are terrestial being?

I get it now..you just lack comprehension capacity..
Let me indulge you...

Demons and angels are personification of natural laws and principles..The being you refer to as Satan is the air or wind.in paganism he is refer to as Lord wind..his job is to provide oxygen for us to sustain life..He is enlil in Babylonian religion. He is one of the four winds.the others being Ninurta, utu and gebu..Enlil symbol is the bull..Him and his sons and daughters are the Baals and Asheraths in the old testament..The devil on the other hand is the God of darkness..in Babylonian mythology he is referred to as Nanna, his symbol is either the moon or goat..Lucifer is the goddess of death,war,love ,wisdom ,lust..etc she is inanna in Babylonian mythology,Venus in Roman, Aphrodite in greeks etc.she is the subject of Isaiah 47..sango,amadioha,Thor, Mars..are all gods of thunder and lightening ..ie the personification of thunder and lightening..

Enlil,his children belongs to the left hand side of God while Enki ,his sons and daughters belongs to the right hand side of God..while Marduk sits as the lugal dimmer ankia (divine King of heaven and Earth )..I know you don't believe that..

Danielomisco:
woow u seem to know much!short n small...cn we hook up?

That you've agreed to is not quite correct.
1. Demons are spiritual beings
2. They are spiritual equivalence of microbes that afflict living beings
3. They express themselves through their host
4. The ultimate purpose is to destroy the host
5. Each demon has their own character and abilities
6. Demons are not the same as fallen angels
7. Demons just don't infect people unless there is a legal ground for them to do so.
8. Demons can afflict even babies
9. Many people are afflicted with demons but not aware because the symptoms are mild
10. Demons cannot force a person to do anything against their wish. Demons however through series of cooperation's with a host gain deeper and higher levels of access and control of a person.

sonmvayina:


I get it now..you just lack comprehension capacity..
Let me indulge you...

Demons and angels are personification of natural laws and principles..The being you refer to as Satan is the air or wind.in paganism he is refer to as Lord wind..his job is to provide oxygen for us to sustain life..He is enlil in Babylonian religion. He is one of the four winds.the others being Ninurta, utu and gebu..Enlil symbol is the bull..Him and his sons and daughters are the Baals and Asheraths in the old testament..The devil on the other hand is the God of darkness..in Babylonian mythology he is referred to as Nanna, his symbol is either the moon or goat..Lucifer is the goddess of death,war,love ,wisdom ,lust..etc she is inanna in Babylonian mythology,Venus in Roman, Aphrodite in greeks etc.she is the subject of Isaiah 47..sango,amadioha,Thor, Mars..are all gods of thunder and lightening ..ie the personification of thunder and lightening..

Enlil,his children belongs to the left hand side of God while Enki ,his sons and daughters belongs to the right hand side of God..while Marduk sits as the lugal dimmer ankia (divine King of heaven and Earth )..I know you don't believe that..

Where did you get this?

Angels are REAL Spiritual and Conscious Beings.
Demons are real Spiritual and Conscious Beings.
God is real a Spiritual and Conscious Being.

shadeyinka:

That you've agreed to is not quite correct.
1. Demons are spiritual beings
2. They are spiritual equivalence of microbes that afflict living beings
3. They express themselves through their host
4. The ultimate purpose is to destroy the host
5. Each demon has their own character and abilities
6. Demons are not the same as fallen angels
7. Demons just don't infect people unless there is a legal ground for them to do so.
8. Demons can afflict even babies
9. Many people are afflicted with demons but not aware because the symptoms are mild
10. Demons cannot force a person to do anything against their wish. Demons however through series of cooperation's with a host gain deeper and higher levels of access and control of a person.

wow veryyyy interesting

shadeyinka:

That you've agreed to is not quite correct.
1. Demons are spiritual beings
2. They are spiritual equivalence of microbes that afflict living beings
3. They express themselves through their host
4. The ultimate purpose is to destroy the host
5. Each demon has their own character and abilities
6. Demons are not the same as fallen angels
7. Demons just don't infect people unless there is a legal ground for them to do so.
8. Demons can afflict even babies
9. Many people are afflicted with demons but not aware because the symptoms are mild
10. Demons cannot force a person to do anything against their wish. Demons however through series of cooperation's with a host gain deeper and higher levels of access and control of a person.

wow veryyyy interesting.

MuttleyLaff:
See, you see what I mean about your legendary invaluable sources of information. No wonder you are one of my favourites, lol and I am not ashamed to say that.

Now, it is interesting stuff like "Orisa, too possesses, you know[" we want to hear about, as that piece of info, does have a connect with what OP LordReed has here tabled. Please FOLY, free to elaborate on Orisa possession(s), why Orisa possesses, how Orisa possesses, kinds or forms or examples of Orisa posessions, where Orisa possesses, when Orisa possesses, the goal/objectives for an Orisa possession etcetera

Much of the information you needed are in my first post on this thread. I stated that Orisa has limitations despite the fact they are supernaturals. Much like human, they have their own strenght and weaknesses. Olokun has his strenght over the oceans, but would be weak in the desert. Orunmila been intelligence deity would require physical strenght from Ogun (God of iron) when the needs appear. Its about keeping balances and harmony.

WHY DO ORISA POSSESS?
Orisa possess not only human. They possess themselves, plants, animals, humans and even inanimate objects. The reason is to break their limitations. For example, Orisa would possess Iyawo-risa so that they can converse audibly and directly to audience, perform rituals itself and hunt for herbs.

HOW DO ORISA POSSESS?
This s very technical. But from what I saw, some takes lot of drumming, or invocations, or rites, while some would happen swiftly without a sweat. In all possession, the possessed consciousness would be hibernated, lost his sensibilities and self awareness.

WHERE AND WHEN DO ORISA POSSESSES?
It happens during festive period set for celebrating the Orisa. And mostly happen in the shrine or open space where the ceremony happens.

WHO CAN BE POSSESSED?
The Orisa choose his wife himself. It doesn't matter age bracket, sex group, race or color of the skin. It doesn't matter if you understand and speak Yoruba. When you are chosen, you lose yourself and another personality embodies you. Until the orisa exit the body, you will be treated as the orisa himself. And after it exit, you become your own self after some hours, possibly won't remember any jack or the missing moment, unless maybe you watch the video or someone tells you whatsup.

shadeyinka:

Where did you get this?

Angels are REAL Spiritual and Conscious Beings.
Demons are real Spiritual and Conscious Beings.
God is real a Spiritual and Conscious Being.

How many have you seen?..