topstone4:


There is nothing blasphemous about that prayer. If you can ask your earthly pastor to pray for you, why can't I ask Virgin Mary to pray for me? She is in heaven and in God's presence, while your pastor is still subject to like passion like me.

So, there is nothing wrong in praying to my grandparents?

Do you have a single scriptural support for this?

Christians are expected to Pray to the Father

Mat 6:6:
"But you, when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which sees in secret shall reward you openly."

Mar 11:25:
"And when you stand praying, forgive, if you have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses."

Luk 11:2:
"And he said to them, When you pray, say, Our Father which are in heaven , Hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, as in heaven, so in earth."

The prayer is not blasphemous but it is idolatrous.Roman Catholicism is idolatrous worship.

shadeyinka:

So, there is nothing wrong in praying to my grandparents?

Do you have a single scriptural support for this?

Christians are expected to Pray to the Father

Mat 6:6:
"But you, when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which sees in secret shall reward you openly."

Mar 11:25:
"And when you stand praying, forgive, if you have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses."

Luk 11:2:
"And he said to them, When you pray, say, Our Father which are in heaven , Hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, as in heaven, so in earth."

Those who died in Christ are not really dead. They are in heaven and even participate in our daily struggle against sin and Satan on earth.


Do you know the hymn" Christian Seek Not Yet Repose?
If you do, sing the 4th stanza with understanding.

Mary can pray for Christians. The angels can speak to God for Christians (Zechariah 1:12-13, 16). Even Joseph Ayo Babalola and all those who were translated into Glory (died in Christ) can pray for Christians.

topstone4:


There is nothing blasphemous about that prayer. If you can ask your earthly pastor to pray for you, why can't I ask Virgin Mary to pray for me? She is in heaven and in God's presence, while your pastor is still subject to like passion like me.

Some questions for you.

1) Is Mary still a Virgin?
2) Is Christ still on the cross?
3) So you also pray to Apostle Peter, John, Paul and angels in heaven to pray for you before the Father?

topstone4:


Those who died in Christ are not really dead. They are in heaven and even participate in our daily struggle against sin and Satan on earth.

The saints in Heaven are in eternal rest. They have ceased from their works. Hebrews 4:10

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Hebrews-4-10/

MrPRevailer:


Some questions for you.

1) Is Mary still a Virgin?
2) Is Christ still on the cross?
3) So you also pray to Apostle Peter, John, Paul in heaven to pray for you before the Father?

You are the type of person that thinks anything catholic is bad. Even if an obvious evidence is shown to you that you are not totally right, like the first response I gave, you will still not change your view point. And this is not necessarily because God told you that catholic church is bad, but because one self styled preacher from somewhere taught you so or because of your self-righteous misinterpretation of the Bible.

Mary only gave birth to Jesus. Those people referred to as his brethren in the scriptures were family members. Thr old Hebrew /Semetic language used in writing the Bible has no distinction between blood brethren and other family members.

Your second question has no correlation to my comment.

If you can ask your earthy unrighteousness, Tithe - loving pastor to pray for you, I can ask Peter, Paul or even Joseph Ayo Babalola to pray for me.

topstone4:


Those who died in Christ are not really dead. They are in heaven and even participate in our daily struggle against sin and Satan on earth.


Do you know the hymn" Christian Seek Not Yet Repose?
If you do, sing the 4th stanza with understanding.

Mary can pray for Christians. The angels can speak to God for Christians (Zechariah 1:12-13, 16). Even Joseph Ayo Babalola and all those who were translated into Glory (died in Christ) can pray for Christians.

There was a reason why Lazarus could not help the Rich man's Family. Abram said: they have Moses, they have the Prophets let them listen to them.

I didn't ask for a hymn proof. I asked for a scriptural proof. You don't know that you can also write your own hymn?

Let's assume the vision of Zechariah was literal. Was there an indication of any New, Israel or Person praying to them?

The Pope is highly respected, but it doesn't make him correct. He is very wrong

The Disciples asked Jesus:"teach us how to pray.."

Jesus said, "when you pray, say Our FATHER, who is in heaven". Address your prayer to God!

Waylex21:


Sure. What is a graven image?

2. The same God instructed Moses to make the images of the Cherubim and Seraphim on the ark of the covenant. Was God contradicting Himself?

3. When Israelites were being punished for speaking against God, Moses was told to make the images of a snake and anyone who looked at it would be saved. Was God not contradicting Himself again?

Answer these questions then I will make you realize what God meant with the Commandment

Did JESUS do or ever instruct his disciples to make image?

it baffles me how people go against what the Bible expressly teaches, yet claim to be Christians. I know their supposed proof will be that their prayers gets answered. But you shouldn't forget that all other idol worshippers also have their prayers answered. So, that cannot be a proof for idol worshippers that the Almighty God answered their prayers. Even Satan can answer prayers too. My advice to all is to repent, and stick to what the Bible teaches and not what people have supposedly made out from it. Jesus clear teaching was that prayers should be directed to God through His name. He was a perfect example for us, as He prayed many times in the Bible and also taught his disciples how to pray. By His example, He never taught anyone to call on any spiritual intercessor to pray to God on our behalf. If we are true Christians, then we follow His lead. Lastly, we should not make His sacrifice on the cross in vein. Jesus died to reconcile man to God, making believers SONS of God. As children of God we have been given the grace and privilege to go directly to God through Christ. So, let's not condemn that.

This thread is full of Confusion, one of the fruits of the spirit. The Holy Spirit told some of them that it is right to pray to Mary, make images and bow before then while he told the rest of them that it is idolatry to do so.
I am here to watch the confusion of the Holy Spirit further

shadeyinka:

There was a reason why Lazarus could not help the Rich man's Family. Abram said: they have Moses, they have the Prophets let them listen to them.

I didn't ask for a hymn proof. I asked for a scriptural proof. You don't know that you can also write your own hymn?

Let's assume the vision of Zechariah was literal. Was there an indication of any New, Israel or Person praying to them?

The Pope is highly respected, but it doesn't make him correct. He is very wrong

The Disciples asked Jesus:"teach us how to pray.."

Jesus said, "when you pray, say Our FATHER, who is in heaven". Address your prayer to God!

Stop talking dumb, bro. Not everything is written in the scriptures. What we have as the Holy Bible today is a combination of few of the many scrolls written in Bible time.

You should go through that song and tell me if it was inspired by the Spirit of God or that of Satan.

Do you know that some dead people still watch over their beloved ones on earth?

You need to wake up from your myopic mindset.

topstone4:


Stop talking dumb, bro. Not everything is written in the scriptures.
You should go through that song and tell me if it was inspired by the Spirit of God or that of Satan.

Do you know that some dead people still watch over their beloved ones on earth?

You need to wake up from your myopic mindset.

You say not everything (we need) is written in the scriptures and the Lord Jesus Christ during His temptation used the same "so called incomplete scriptures" to tell the devil: "it is written...".

If dead people watch over their beloved, why don't we see revenge over murders, hit-and-runs etc.
Why do children of orphans not make it big?

The scripture is very clear with respect to the TRADITION of men you have adopted to overrule the scriptures.

Mat 15:3:
"But he answered and said to them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?"

Mat 15:6:
"And honor not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition."

Mar 7:8:
"For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men , as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things you do."

Mar 7:9:
"And he said to them, Full well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your own tradition."

Col 2:8:
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

As per hymns:
Anyone can sing a hymn
Col 3:16: "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord."


The highly revered Pope is wrong. Is this not impossible?

Gal 2:11:
"But when Peter came to Antioch I had to oppose him publicly, speaking strongly against what he was doing, for it was very wrong."

topstone4:


You are the type of person that thinks anything catholic is bad. Even if an obvious evidence is shown to you that you are not totally right, like the first response I gave, you will still not change your view point. And this is not necessarily because God told you that catholic church is bad, but because one self styled preacher from somewhere taught you so or because of your self-righteous misinterpretation of the Bible.

Mary only gave birth to Jesus. Those people referred to as his brethren in the scriptures were family members. Thr old Hebrew /Semetic language used in writing the Bible has no distinction between blood brethren and other family members.

Your second question has no correlation to my comment.

If you can ask your earthy unrighteousness, Tithe - loving pastor to pray for you, I can ask Peter, Paul or even Joseph Ayo Babalola to pray for me.

1) You see, what makes sin grievous before God is instead of people to acknowledge that they are wrong, they find excuses. You Catholics claim to be Christians. But when a serious allegation is brought up, which they cannot defend with the Bible scriptures, they accuse the Bible of corruption or changes. This is an act of wickedness. And if Catholics were sincere, they should always state that they don't believe all the scriptures; that "there are errors, there were chapters removed from the Bible." They only bring this up when they can no more defend their idolatorous faith with the unadulterated Word of God.
Bible makes it clear that Mary had children. Did she not marry Joseph to bear children. So you are saying in all their years of Marriage she didn't have sex? Why then did she marry?
Just look at people's folly!

2) #+(

3) The saints in Heaven cannot pray for Earth dwellers even as Hebrews 4:10 says "For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his"
Not only that. The Vatican is not asking them to pray as you suggested. He is praying to them. Please read properly.

The Roman catholic church is a satanic church.

The church is founded on idolatry and pagan traditions, leading millions of souls to hell.

Matthew 15:3
But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?


Mark 7:9
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.




John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The root of Roman catholic Rebellion is rejection and twisting of God's commandments.

Leviticus 26:1
Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.



Their line of defense was that moses was commanded by God to make an image of a cherubim.

Yes moses made an image of cherubim,
That is not the bone on contention, the issue is making that image one of reverence, prayer,worship or a medium to reach God.


The image of the cherubim was placed in the holy of holiest where no one could even see it except for the high priest once a year.

Roman catholic church on the other hand is renowned in images, rosary through which they carry out prayers, show reverence to saints and Angel's and other things that are abominations to God.

If you are a Roman catholic Repent and turn to Yahweh for mercy.

Waylex21:


You need to understand the difference between idol and image. You also need to check for yourself everything that worship is all about.

Another question: Do Catholics believe that the images are the ones that answer their prayers and protect them?

since you are so vast as to what an image or idol is, can you explain this one?

MrPRevailer:


1) You see, what makes sin grievous before God is instead of people to acknowledge that they are wrong, they find excuses. You Catholics claim to be Christians. But when a serious allegation is brought up, which they cannot defend with the Bible scriptures, they accuse the Bible of corruption or changes. This is an act of wickedness. And if Catholics were sincere, they should always state that they don't believe all the scriptures; that "there are errors, there were chapters removed from the Bible." They only bring this up when they can no more defend their idolatorous faith with the unadulterated Word of God.
Bible makes it clear that Mary had children. Did she not marry Joseph to bear children. So you are saying in all their years of Marriage she didn't have sex? Why then did she marry?
Just look at people's folly!

2) #+(

3) The saints in Heaven cannot pray for Earth dwellers even as Hebrews 4:10 says "For he that is entered into his rest,he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his"
Not only that. The Vatican is not asking them to pray as you suggested. He is praying to them. Please read properly.

Your comments above show that you are not really interested in Christianity or establishing God's kingdom; you are only interested in abusing and attacking catholics. For your information, attacking catholics won't take you to heaven. It will only fill you with hate and bitterness that will condemn your soul to hell fire.

Show me where the Bible said Virgin Mary had other kids. At the bolded, are you resorting to your human, sensual, immoral wisdom to explain why Mary had other kids or you got your facts from the Bible? Are you now not the one playing around with foolishness? Imagine this hypocrite!

Since you know how to quote Hebrew 4:10, can you then explain why Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane despite the fact that they have "entered into rest and ceased from their works"?

The catholic church teaches me that all the saints can intercede for me and it is true. If Angels interceded for Israel in Zechariah 1:12-16, how much more the saints that died in Christ, bearing in mind that angels are ministering spirits sent to minister to believers (Hebrew 1:14)?

Mr Catholic Hater, you may be surprised on the last day that those of you who think you are better than catholics will find your ways to hell fire, while many catholics and white garment members you condemn will make it to heaven.

You better focus on working out your own salvation with fear and trembling instead of destroying your heart with bitterness and hatred that will only darken your soul.

topstone4:


Your comments above show that you are not really interested in Christianity or establishing God's kingdom; you are only interested in abusing and attacking catholics. For your information, attacking catholics won't take you to heaven. It will only fill you with hate and bitterness that will condemn your soul to hell fire.

Show me where the Bible said Virgin Mary had other kids. At the bolded, are you resorting to your human, sensual, immoral wisdom to explain why Mary had other kids or you got your facts from the Bible? Are you now not the one playing around with foolishness? Imagine this hypocrite!

Since you know how to quote Hebrew 4:10, can you then explain why Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane despite the fact that they have "entered into rest and ceased from their works"?

The catholic church teaches me that all the saints can intercede for me and it is true. If Angels interceded for Israel in Zechariah 1:12-16, how much more the saints that died in Christ, bearing in mind that angels are ministering spirits sent to minister to believers (Hebrew 1:14)?

Mr Catholic Hater, you may be surprised on the last day that those of you who think you are better than catholics will find your ways to hell fire, while many catholics and white garment members you condemn will make it to heaven.

You better focus on working out your own salvation with fear and trembling instead of destroying your heart with bitterness and hatred that will only darken your soul.

You are an idolaterer, simple. I'm not judging you. It's the word of God that will judge you. I'm simply calling a spade A SPADE. You call a thief, a thief.
The Bible is unadulterated. There are no missing chapters. It is as perfect as God wanted it to be. It has not changed. Your cathechisms and traditions are leading you to destruction. The earlier you realise this, the better for you and whoever has ear to hear.

It's my sincere prayer you shall be saved.

Also, the scriptural verses of Jesus siblings is BOLDLY written in the Bible. There are many verses. You can see them all at once here. Click on each verse and a pop up will appear.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-siblings.html

I pray for your genuine salvation. I don't hate you at all, sincerely speaking. I want you to be saved, that's all. Preaching or telling people their faults shouldn't be seen as hatred. I want to reason with open-minded unbiased Catholics.

MrPRevailer:


You are an idolaterer, simple. I'm not judging you. It's the word of God that will judge you. I'm simply calling a spade A SPADE. You call a thief, a thief.
The Bible is unadulterated. There are no missing chapters. It is as perfect as God wanted it to be. It has not changed. Your cathechisms and traditions are leading you to destruction. The earlier you realise this, the better for you and whoever has ear to hear.

It's my sincere prayer you shall be saved.

Also, the scriptural verses of Jesus siblings is BOLDLY written in the Bible. There are many verses. You can see them all at once here. Click on each verse and a pop up will appear.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-siblings.html

I pray for your genuine salvation. I don't hate you at all, sincerely speaking. I want you to be saved, that's all. Preaching or telling people their faults shouldn't be seen as hatred. I want to reason with open-minded unbiased Catholics.

The scripture says "thou shall not judge". You just judge me. Now, how are you better than any dirty sinner bound for eternal damantion?

That your prayer for salvation should be directed to you than anyone else.

Looks like your destiny is not to make heaven but to abuse others.

Like I told you earlier, Mr Hate filled self deceiver, you will be surprised on the judgement day. You think you are more righteous than me? The end will judge every man's work.

Have you checked the Book of Life and you saw your name there?

If you have any sense in your head, you will focus on working out your own salvation with fear and trembling, instead of turning yourself to a stained signboard that will never make it to the destination.

You need to pray for yourself first, because you are hate filled and your hate can take you to hell fire.

wickedtuna:
since you are so vast as to what an image or idol is, can you explain this one?

Since you are judging the catholic church by these images, then you shouldn't have problem judging CAC members by this picture below. Yes, CAC members and many other Christians place anointing oil on Joseph Ayo Babalola's grave for blessing.

I hope you are not a shameless hypocrite deceiving himself that he is a Christian?

topstone4:


The scripture says "thou shall not judge". You just judge me. Now, how are you better than any dirty sinner bound for eternal damantion?

That your prayer for salvation should be directed to you than anyone else.

Looks like your destiny is not to make heaven but to abuse others.

Like I told you earlier, Mr Hate filled self deceiver, you will be surprised on the judgement day. You think you are more righteous than me? The end will judge every man's work.

Have you checked the Book of Life and you saw your name there?

If you have any sense in your head, you will focus on working out your own salvation with fear and trembling, instead of turning yourself to a stained signboard that will never make it to the destination.

You need to pray for yourself first, because you are hate filled and your hate can take you to hell fire.

No I am not hate filled.
Thank you and God bless you. Bye.

MrPRevailer:


You are an idolaterer, simple. I'm not judging you. It's the word of God that will judge you. I'm simply calling a spade A SPADE. You call a thief, a thief.
The Bible is unadulterated. There are no missing chapters. It is as perfect as God wanted it to be. It has not changed. Your cathechisms and traditions are leading you to destruction. The earlier you realise this, the better for you and whoever has ear to hear.

It's my sincere prayer you shall be saved.

Also, the scriptural verses of Jesus siblings is BOLDLY written in the Bible. There are many verses. You can see them all at once here. Click on each verse and a pop up will appear.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-siblings.html

I pray for your genuine salvation. I don't hate you at all, sincerely speaking. I want you to be saved, that's all. Preaching or telling people their faults shouldn't be seen as hatred. I want to reason with open-minded unbiased Catholics.

Since you want to call a spade a spade, then you shouldn't have problem calling CAC members idol worshippers also, right?

They pray on Ayo Babalola's grave and even bless anointing oil there. Since you can't find that in the scripture, doesn't that also make CAC members idol worshippers?

Instead of wasting your life focusing on the race of others, why not focus on your own race and stop being stupid? Have you checked the Book of Life and you saw your name there?


A wise will accept counsel, but a fool will be destroyed by his haughtiness and emptiness

MrPRevailer:


No I am not hate filled.
Thank you and God bless you. Bye.

You can't give what don't have. You don't have any blessing, but hate and spiritual arrogance. Nothing more.

Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling and stop acting stupid.

[quote author=Waylex21 post=88832023][/quote]Honour there means to show respect, which is why that commandment is not limited to parents only.

josh123:
The bible say thou shalt not bow down to any graven image

They are not bowing down to it, they are just bowing down been it there. I bow praying in a room and there are objects in front of me doesn't mean I'm bowing to it, even if they are fixed.

MrPRevailer:


Please look at the prayer of the Vatican. Is it right to pray to a human?

If you can't bring yourself to sanity in this one question, then much less even if I answer all the questions you have asked.
Bible says you should not make an image nor bow yourself to them. You pray and cry before these images asking for the mercy of Mary while holding beads like the other pagans (Muslims, Hindus etc)

It's intercession.

Waylex21:
3. Catholics honour Mary because God honoured her first. Read again Lk. 1:28-38

They understand that if educated Mary had not educated her Son, Jesus would have been a carpenter and a messiah to wood, at best, and nobody would have heard of him today.

MrPRevailer:


1) Mary was full of grace because the Holyghost came upon her.
"and great grace was on them all" Acts 4:33
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Acts-4-33/
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Ephesians-1-2/
https://www.biblehub.com/acts/6-8.htm

2) Thank God you are being sincere.

3) The Saints are all alive in Heaven. In eternity, one is either a Living (Heaven) or Dead (Perished or eternally separated from God) soul. Jesus said "He is God of the Living, not of the dead". Also, Jesus said, "in heaven there is no marriage" or procreation

4) It is very right to pray for one another. And it is very wrong to pray to a created being other than the creator, God Almighty (Father, Son/WORD and Holyghost). Words and opposite.

5) No I didn't insult you. I knew either you or somebody will try to pick on it to accuse me. In your own words, what would you call a person who is easily carried away with diverse winds of doctrines not according to the scriptures?
Let's see some of apostle's words
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Galatians-3-1/
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Luke-24-25/
https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Acts-7-51/

Catholic uses this line in some prayers "we asked this through Christ our Lord. Amen" I have prayed via intercession and God answered, give or take; you don't need to believe don't care. If you don't like it, well that's it for you.

Stephenmoka4:
They are not bowing down to it, they are just bowing down been it there. I bow praying in a room and there are objects in front of me doesn't mean I'm bowing to it, even if they are fixed.

u guys have been brain washed. There is an image,drawing or sculpture of a woman before u and u kneel or bow to pray with something like beads on ur hand what do u call that? There is no different btw catholics and babalawo. Both religion pray to an image before them

josh123:
u guys have been brain washed. There is an image,drawing or sculpture of a woman before u and u kneel or bow to pray with something like beads on ur hand what do u call that? There is no different btw catholics and babalawo. Both religion pray to an image before them

Nobody brain washed nobody, I didn't pray to image and I count each mystery/prayer segment using the beads.

Stephenmoka4:
Nobody brain washed nobody, I didn't pray to image and I count each mystery/prayer segment using the beads.

it was never stated in the bible that we should pray to mary neither did God told us to pray for mary to intercede for us. Mind u mary was flesh and blood she fvcked and gave birth to other children

josh123:
it was never stated in the bible that we should pray to mary neither did God told us to pray for mary to intercede for us. Mind u mary was flesh and blood she fvcked and gave birth to other children

Not everything was written in the Bible, the Bible States that anyways, Luke 1 v 46 to 55 might teach you something (I know the chances of understanding it is not high but, try if you wanted ) The virgin Mary is the mother of Christ and needs some respect, give or take.

topstone4:


Since you are judging the catholic church by these images, then you shouldn't have problem judging CAC members by this picture below. Yes, CAC members and many other Christians place anointing oil on Joseph Ayo Babalola's grave for blessing.

I hope you are not a shameless hypocrite deceiving himself that he is a Christian?

No sir, i am not a shameless hypocrite pretending to be a christian and i will say what is bad when i see it. Can you at least give an explanation to the pictures i posted first? They can put the oil inside the coffin for all i care, its their business. Let us address my question and not try to be defensive by launching a weak attack sir. Thank you

Stephenmoka4:
Not everything was written in the Bible, the Bible States that anyways, Luke 1 v 46 to 55 might teach you something (I know the chances of understanding it is not high but, try if you wanted ) The virgin Mary is the mother of Christ and needs some respect, give or take.

I just read the verse u pointed out, she was only praising God. Jesus is the only mediator btw God and man. Rome incorporated the praying to idol into catholic. Read ur bible dont be deceived