Jeromejnr:


Bros..i never said good works saves.

I said being saved breeds good works.

If you don't show good works and claim you are saved, your faith is dead and vain.

good, it is good for us to be clear as possible.
Yes I agree that good works is and evidence of salvation another evidence is that he or she that is saved will experience sanctification meaning they wont be given to a life of sin but all these are not requirement to have eternal life.

babadee1:


My brother once again you're refusing to see what I am saying because you want to be right. I don't care about being right or wrong, but I know from the clear word of God that there is no effort in faith. The work of faith is automatic and human input is not required. All those works you are referring to are meaningless to God unless they're the result of faith. Human works of righteousness are like filthy rags to God. The only works that God recognizes are the works of faith which involves no human effort or human input.
Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. That is all.

@bolded So what you are saying and what I am saying is the same na.

Why are you arguing with me?

Jeromejnr:


@bolded So what you are saying and what I am saying is the same na.

Why are you arguing with me?

You are the one arguing with me. I have been very clear from the beginning of this discussion. Works are not part of God's plan of salvation and I still stand on that. May God open our eyes to see the clear truth of His word. Amen.

Evidence of salvation is different from requirement for salvation.
The evidence is for men to know that one is saved and for the possessor to have assurance that he is saved.

1 John 1:4
And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.


1 John 2:3
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Hisincrease:

Bros, Why exactly did you quote me if you did not support or have a contrary opinion to my assertion?

Oh, sorry to have bothered you. I just thought you might like to see my take on it.



Peace with you.

babadee1:


You are the one arguing with me. I have been very clear from the beginning of this discussion. Works are not part of God's plan of salvation and I still stand on that. May God open our eyes to see the clear truth of His word. Amen.

Works befitting repentance are part of it Sir.

Look how far you have fallen! Turn back to me and do the works you did at first. If you don’t repent, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches.

Jeromejnr:


Works befitting repentance are part of it Sir.

Look how far you have fallen! Turn back to me and do the works you did at first. If you don’t repent, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches.

Christ wasnt speaking to an individual but to a church not an individual.
Remember that the candle sticks represent the seven churches.

Revelation 1:20
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Removing the candlestick of the church mean that particular local church would cease to exist.

Jeromejnr:


Works befitting repentance are part of it Sir.

Look how far you have fallen! Turn back to me and do the works you did at first. If you don’t repent, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches.

Let us agree to disagree. Only God knows the full truth and by His grace He will help us to understand better.

P.S. I still believe that the works referred to in that scripture is faith. The work of God is this, to believe in the One whom He has sent. (John 6:29)

solite3:
Christ wasnt speaking to an individual but to a church not an individual.
Remember that the candle sticks represent the seven churches.

Revelation 1:20
The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

That is you people's problem with dissecting scriptures.

In an earlier verse Christ spoke to a particular church. But he said there are some in this Church that are worthy and will walk in white.

3Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

4Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life.

So do you think what He says to the Chruches, he doesn't mean individuals also?

Are the Churches not made up of individuals?

C'mon.

babadee1:


Let us agree to disagree. Only God knows the full truth and by His grace He will help us to understand better.

P.S. I still believe that the works referred to in that scripture is faith. The work of God is this, to believe in the One whom He has sent. (John 6:29)

God has revealed the truth in His believers heart by the Holy Spirit.

If you don't know the truth and it's hidden from you, then you need to repent.

BTW, if you beleive on One, this means you also believe all He said and act on it.

Jeromejnr:


God has revealed the truth in His believers heart by the Holy Spirit.

If you don't know the truth and it's hidden from you, then you need to repent.

BTW, if you beleive on One, this means you also believe all He said and act on it.

If you believe in Him then that is enough. There is nothing extra that you can add to faith. God bless you.

babadee1:


If you believe in Him then that is enough. There is nothing extra that you can add to faith. God bless you.

Lol..i have a question.. Will you like to answer?

Jeromejnr:


Lol..i have a question.. Will you like to answer?

Of course, pls ask me. I love questions.

babadee1:


Of course, pls ask me. I love questions.

Supposing you were just born again at an altar. Genuinely.

And from the sevice you went back home.

And you sat in your house for 5 years only watching TV.

You didn't smoke, drink, party, commit fornication or lie because you didn't even talk to anyone for 5 yrs.

All you did was watch TV and eat food in your lonely apartment. (You stocked up food for 5yrs). In fact you did nothing that anyone can point out as a sin.

On the 5th year, if Jesus were to come for His bride, will you also go along?

I mean, since you at least only genuinely believed on Him 5yrs ago at an altar.

Will You go to heaven to be with Him?

James 2:26 KJV
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH without works is DEAD also.

Acts 26:20 KJV
But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should Repent and Turn to God, AND DO WORKS MEET FOR REPENTANCE.

May Jesus Give You Light.

Jeromejnr:


That is you people's problem with dissecting scriptures.

In an earlier verse Christ spoke to a particular church. But he said there are some in this Church that are worthy and will walk in white.

3Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

4Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life.

So do you think what He says to the Chruches, he doesn't mean individuals also?

Are the Churches not made up of individuals?

C'mon.

yes a church is made up of people and in a local church you would agree with me that not everyone in it are saved but they could be saved when the local church hold on to the true doctrine of Christ.

When the church begin to lose hold on that which she receives then it could make people fall away from Christ and even cause true believers to have temporary fall.
Those who still retain their garnent are those who continue in the who continued in the doctrine of Christ.

Those who overcome are those who will continue in their faith in Jesus Christ till the end.

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:5
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

solite3:
yes a church is made up of people and in a local church you would agree with me that not everyone in it are saved but they could be saved when the local church hold on to the true doctrine of Christ.

When the church begin to lose hold on that which she receives then it could make people fall away from Christ and even cause true believers to have temporary fall.
Those who still retain their white remaineth are those who continue in the who continued in the doctrine of Christ.

Those who overcome are those who will continue in their faith in Jesus Christ till the end.

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:5
Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

You didn't contradict me.

BTW, how does someone continue in the faith?

Kingpele:
my dear I can see that many has spoken the truth to u here but u are still doubting the truth and the power of God in his word the first thing Jesus Christ preached while on earth is taken from Matthew 4:17 turn away from your sins because the kingdom of God is at hand, is Paul greater than Christ himself, if your faith does not make you holy and strong in Gods love, you are only deceiving yourself, this is why Jesus said some will say in your name I prophecy, in your name I rise the dead and work miracles in your name but I will tell them depart from me all u workers of iniquities... He said also in Matt 18:8-10 if your hand or foot will led u to sin cut it off for it is better for u to enter life without your hand and foot then to have your whole body thrown into hell... Here Jesus is telling those who have real faith in him to avoid sin at all cost, heb 12 :4 for in your struggle against sin. U have not yet resist to the point of being killed, this and more verses in the Bible make it clear you have to see sin first as God sees it before u could be able to overcome the temptation of sin, the love for God opens one eyes to truth about sin and Gods own way, there is many pastors, evengalists, church elders and bishop that are in hell and some of them here is still who are on their way to hell cos of this your kind of mindset, faith is not immunity to continue in sin. But rather immunity to stop sinning..

Amen..
It is not enough to believe on Jesus ONLY. The devils (the actual angels who chose to exit heaven via their master lucifer) believe also (James 2:19).
Once we accept the GIFT of salvation, then we allow Christ to do His redemptive work in us.. Which includes victory over sin! We must overcome sin. No continual, willful sinner (that includes the Christian who continually abuses God's grace) will enter the kingdom of Heaven.
Well written

Nice. Churches shud bring back holiness and righteousness messages. All these prosperity and my-enemies-die messages won't help. There are many church goers that will sing the worse of immoral songs, wear the worst of immoral dresses and still belief they are in right standing with God. It is happening because pastors no longer educate members on rights and wrongs.

Hebrew 5:13: For everyone who lives on milk is still a baby and does not yet know the difference between right and wrong.

But unfortunately, many pastors are not ready to educate their members about popular sins like immodesty, immoral songs and jokes, celebrities etc.

Jeromejnr:


Supposing you were just born again at an altar. Genuinely.

And from the sevice you went back home.

And you sat in your house for 5 years only watching TV.

You didn't smoke, drink, party, commit fornication or lie because you didn't even talk to anyone for 5 yrs.

All you did was watch TV and eat food in your lonely apartment. (You stocked up food for 5yrs). In fact you did nothing that anyone can point out as a sin.

On the 5th year, if Jesus were to come for His bride, will you also go along?

I mean, since you at least only genuinely believed on Him 5yrs ago at an altar.

Will You go to heaven to be with Him?

Ok now I get the problem. The simple answer is that nobody who is genuinely born again with the Holy Spirit living inside him will just sit idle in front of a TV eating for five years. Saving faith will automatically produce works pleasing to God without even any involvement of that person.

Let me tell you a story from the life of Smith Wigglesworth, a great preacher from many years back. Smith Wigglesworth was invited to the house of a wealthy woman, he preached the gospel to her and she believed. She gave her life to Christ and got born again.
Before he left, the newly converted woman called him aside to ask him some questions. She said, Mr. Wigglesworth, from time to time I like to throw parties in my house. Is it alright for me to still throw my parties now? He replied, yes of course, if you can. Then she said, I love playing cards is that still okay? He replied, yes of course, if you can. Then she asked, I like drinking alcohol from time to time, is that fine? He replied, yes of course, if you can. She felt relieved.
A few months later, she wrote him a letter. Mr. Wigglesworth, for some reason every single one of those things I told you I liked to do I find that I can no longer do them. I have absolutely no appetite for them and they no longer interest me at all.

Now let me ask you a question. That woman, was she saved because she changed her behaviours or did she change her behaviours because she was saved?

Jeromejnr:


You didn't contradict me.

BTW, how does someone continue in the faith?

Build on it

Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

2 Peter 1:5, 10 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

In addition a beleiver can temporarily fall but since he is bornagain he will regain his feet.

Eviana:


Amen..
It is not enough to believe on Jesus ONLY. The devils (the actual angels who chose to exit heaven via their master lucifer) believe also (James 2:19).
Once we accept the GIFT of salvation, then we allow Christ to do His redemptive work in us.. Which includes victory over sin! We must overcome sin. No continual, willful sinner (that includes the Christian who continually abuses God's grace) will enter the kingdom of Heaven.
Well written

please where is it written that the devils believe in Jesus?

babadee1:


Ok now I get the problem. The simple answer is that nobody who is genuinely born again with the Holy Spirit living inside him will just sit idle in front of a TV eating for five years. Saving faith will automatically produce works pleasing to God without even any involvement of that person.

Let me tell you a story from the life of Smith Wigglesworth, a great preacher from many years back. Smith Wigglesworth was invited to the house of a wealthy woman, he preached the gospel to her and she believed. She gave her life to Christ and got born again.
Before he left, the newly converted woman called him aside to ask him some questions. She said, Mr. Wigglesworth, from time to time I like to throw parties in my house. Is it alright for me to still throw my parties now? He replied, yes of course, if you can. Then she said, I love playing cards is that still okay? He replied, yes of course, if you can. Then she asked, I like drinking alcohol from time to time, is that fine? He replied, yes of course, if you can. She felt relieved.
A few months later, she wrote him a letter. Mr. Wigglesworth, for some reason every single one of those things I told you I liked to do I find that I can no longer do them. I have absolutely no appetite for them and they no longer interest me at all.

Now let me ask you a question. That woman, was she saved because she changed her behaviours or did she change her behaviours because she was saved?

Then you have shot yourself in the foot.

So you have agreed its not just by what you called "believing on Him only". There were still behaviours and acts worthy of repentance.

As for the woman:

BTW, this language of someone already being fully saved or having salvation while in the flesh is not in your scriptures. That language was adopted by some preachers in recent times and this has gone under scrutiny.

Scriptures speaks of being saved, waiting for the hope of salvation, inheriting salvation when Jesus is finally revealed. That is the language of the New Testament.

Believe on the Lord and you will be saved. Fully Saved when?

...but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

....By your patient endurance, you will gain your souls.

You believe on the Lord means you also believe His commandments and do them. You belive He has purchased you and given the grace to live as He wants you to.

So that woman if she kept her change of behaviours till the end, will inherit salvation.

John Bevere said it well,

Supposing you lived high up on a volcanic mountain. And one day, alarm starts to blow that the volcano will erupt in 5 minutes and all living things on the mountain will perish.

But you don't have a car and it takes you 20 minutes on a normal day to get to the bottom of the mountain on foot.

So there is no hope, you are doomed. But you here a knock on the door while you are busy being frantic.

You open up, and you see a man handing you over a car key to an SUV. And he says hey take this freely, a gift from me to you. I will sacrifice myself for you. Now take the SUV and run. It will take you two minutes to reach the mountain and escape the volcanic ash with the SUV.

Now you grab the keys and in joy and happiness you dance around the house and you are shouting "I am saved" "I am saved". But you never enter the SUV to escape. All you do is thank this man.

Will you be saved then from the volcano?

babadee1:


Please, I never said faith is immunity to continue in sin. There is nowhere in any of my comments where I said such a thing. What I am sharing with you is the good news in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. When He died on the cross He said it is finished. He has done it all already. There is nothing left for us to do but just to believe in Him. That is the true Gospel.

.... One is not a Christian, if he can't believe in the teachings of our lord Jesus Christ, Christ the one u claim u have faith on is telling us to repent of our sins that the kingdom of heaven is at hand, if u repent of your sins, it means u have change your ways, dear if u can't obey the word of God your faith is worthless, if u can't believe that the blood of Jesus can cleanse your heart from dead works(sins) then your faith is worthless, Jesus is able to save you from your sins and keep you holy by his power heb12 :14 Paul says follow peace with all men and holiness without which no eyes will see God.. The essence of faith is knowing or acknowledging that it is God who gives u the will and grace to do good deeds, is not self righteousness but righteousness from God with the highest dependance on Gods word and power of holy spirit that is real faith in Christ, Christ Jesus Even said that we his disciples will do even greater works than he did John 14:12 I am telling you the truth those who believe in me will do what I do yes, they will do even greater things, because am going to the father... In verse 21 of John 14 those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me, my father will love those who love me and I too will love him and reveal myself to them, obeying Jesus will make Jesus reveal himself more to u, but if you live in sin your mind will be darken by the power of Satan, sin is the power of Satan and holiness is the power of God st Peter knew that some who derive pleasure in unrighteousness will miss interprete the writings of Paul 2peter3:14-16 my friends as you wait for that day do your best to be pure and faultless in Gods sight and to be at peace with him.. Look on our lord's patience as the appportunity to be saved just as our brother Paul wrote to u using the wisdom that God gave him.. This is what he says in all his letters when he writes on the subject, there are some difficult things, in his letters which ignorant and unstable people explain falsely as they do all the scriptures, so they bring on their own destruction. Dear u can still read verse 17, don't be ignorant of the word of God, it is those in the spirit that understand the things of the spirit but a canal minded man can't please God... I have tried my best to make you see the difference between dead faith and a living faith, so choose wisely shalom

solite3:


Build on it

Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

2 Peter 1:5, 10 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Good, so you continue by adding things and being diligent in some things.

That is the point.

solite3:
please where is it written that the devils believe in Jesus?

Sir,
We are veering away from this extremely important topic, which I don't wish to do...(and u have quite a superior, violatile, argumentative and aggressive tone of which I don't want to engage with..sorry sir) but I did give you a scripture verse in the post about the deity of Christ..a member of the Godhead.
Here's one more: Mark 5:1-13 (KJV).

GreatResearcher1:
Good morning my christian brothers and sisters. Please I need answers to the following questions.
my questions would be taken from the book of Genesis.

Genesis. 3:14 So the Lord God said to the serpent:
"Because you have done this,
You are cursed more than all cattle,
And more than every beast of the field;
On your belly you shall go,
And you shall eat dust
All the days of your life".

Questions:
1. Snake feed on rodents and not dust. Why?
2. Earthworm go on belly. Why? Because earthworm never offended God.
3. If it was Satan who passed through a snake to deceived Eve, why is snake punished to go on belly and eat dust instead of Satan?

1. If any animal dies and decomposes what does it turn to be? Dust in that context means living things which includes me and you.2. If earthworm don’t go on belly they would never find food of their own. So the way they were made allows them to not only feed but to find shelter for themselves. It’s not punishment it’s a privilege. Everything God created is good 1 Timothy 4 vs 4..3.Devil is already condemned, so the devil wants to draw as many as he can to condemnation too, I tell you if there was another creature(man or woman) present then, the devil would have preferred the creature. Even during the time of Jesus devil used Judas to betray Jesus and Judas suffered the consequences. This is because devil is already condemned, there is not chance of repentance for him.

Jeromejnr:


Then you have shot yourself in the foot.

So you have agreed its not just by what you called "believing on Him only". There were still behaviours and acts worthy of repentance.

As for the woman:

BTW, this language of someone already being fully saved or having salvation while in the flesh is not in your scriptures. That language was adopted by some preachers in recent times and this has gone under scrutiny.

Scriptures speaks of being saved, waiting for the hope of salvation, inheriting salvation when Jesus is finally revealed. That is the language of the New Testament.

Believe on the Lord and you will be saved. Fully Saved when?

...but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

....By your patient endurance, you will gain your souls.

You believe on the Lord means you also believe His commandments and do them. You belive He has purchased you and given the grace to live as He wants you to.

So that woman if she kept her change of behaviours till the end, will inherit salvation.

John Bevere said it well,

Supposing you lived high up on a volcanic mountain. And one day, alarm starts to blow that the volcano will erupt in 5 minutes and all living things on the mountain will perish.

But you don't have a car and it takes you 20 minutes on a normal day to get to the bottom of the mountain on foot.

So there is no hope, you are doomed. But you here a knock on the door while you are busy being frantic.

You open up, and you see a man handing you over a car key to an SUV. And he says hey take this freely, a gift from me to you. I will sacrifice myself for you. Now take the SUV and run. It will take you two minutes to reach the mountain and escape the volcanic ash with the SUV.

Now you grab the keys and in joy and happiness you dance around the house and you are shouting "I am saved" "I am saved". But you never enter the SUV to escape. All you do is thank this man.

Will you be saved then from the volcano?

You don't understand. The behaviours and acts of repentance are the results of believing in Him only, in fact there is no other way to please God except by faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God.
Your volcano analogy from John Bevere is a terrible way to describe the process of salvation. Salvation is not like getting the keys to an SUV. Salvation is more like being carried on the wings of God and flying high above everything.
My Father who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. (John 10:29)
Jesus said when we become saved we are carried in the hands of the Father and no one can ever snatch us away from Him. Think upon those words.

Eviana:


Sir,
We are veering away from this extremely important topic, which I don't wish to do...(and u have quite a superior, violatile, argumentative and aggressive tone of which I don't want to engage with..sorry sir) but I did give you a scripture verse in the post about the deity of Christ..a member of the Godhead.
Here's one more: Mark 5:1-13 (KJV).

I m sorry if I sound like that but you see, it is good for us to check any doctrine and compare with scriptures without any bias whatsoever.
You said even the devil believes in Jesus which is not true, what the bible said is that the devils believe there is one God.

Believing[b] there is God[/b] and believing in Jesus are two different things.

babadee1:


You don't understand. The behaviours and acts of repentance are the results of believing in Him only, in fact there is no other way to please God except by faith. Without faith it is impossible to please God.
Your volcano analogy from John Bevere is a terrible way to describe the process of salvation. Salvation is not like getting the keys to an SUV. Salvation is more like being carried on the wings of God and flying high above everything.
My Father who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. (John 10:29)
Jesus said when we become saved we are carried in the hands of the Father and no one can ever snatch us away from Him. Think upon those words.

Mr.

No one can snatch you away from God. But you can snatch yourself away from His hand.

God can never forsake you. But you can forsake God.

Names can be blotted from the book of Life as Jesus warned. These means they had their names there already and were saved.

Many who are saved will say Lord, Lord and will be rejected.

This is why Jesus said abide in me.

How do we abide in Him?

...If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye may ask what ye will, and it shall be done to you...

...So He said to the Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples.

That last verse is for you and your believe statement.

Thank you.

Jeromejnr:


Good, so you continue by adding things and being diligent in some things.

That is the point.

the aim is to grow in the knowledge of Jesus Christ.
The more we grow in the knowledge of Christ the more mature we be and we wont be easily swayed by every wind of doctrine.

Jeromejnr:


Mr.

No one can snatch you away from God. But you can snatch yourself away from His hand.

God can never forsake you. But you can forsake God.

Names can be blotted from the book of Life as Jesus warned. These means they had their names there already and were saved.

Many who are saved will say Lord, Lord and will be rejected.

This is why Jesus said abide in me.

How do we abide in Him?

...If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye may ask what ye will, and it shall be done to you...

...So He said to the Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples.

That last verse is for you and your believe statement.

Thank you.

You can't do it. Only God can do it in you.
Thank you.

P.S. If you try, you will fail.