dimpules:

ask yourselves one question, What will Jesus do?

Please tell us what Jesus would do.

It has become the norm today for people to make recommedations - and yet not follow them through. Christianity is not a matter of living in compromise - it brings home divine truth to the heart and challenges the addressee to make an informed response.

That is why these issues are being discussed in as a fair a manner as can be managed. It is not as simplistic a matter as saying that some are headstrong and will not change their minds on anything (I once made that assertion as a Muslim. . . but today, I thak God that I'm a Christian). . . nor is it just mere talk about "prayer, fasting, the word". If the Word is prayerfully enunciated and people have made up their minds to be deliberately blind to God's WORD, where does that leave us - in the middle road of continued compromise?

Regards.

@khai_khai,

khai_khai:

Jesus Christ never mentioned Christianity.

Neither did He mention Catholicism, the Vatican, Holy Rosary, Purgatory, and a whole host of Catholic ideas being waved in our face.

khai_khai:

If you are a true christian, there is nothing to bash about catholicism

Nobody is set here to bash Catholics or Catholicism. If Catholics care for Biblical truth, there would be minimal noise and complaints coming from catholics themselves.

A true Christian is one who does not swallow duplicity or keeps quiet in the face of incontrovertible heresy taught by those who claim to lead Christians to God.

khai_khai:

Christianity started with the Catholics

Mere assumption. Please we need claer pointers to the assertion. Thank you.

khai_khai:

Suppose christianity is a fraud, then early "Catholic scholars" are the architects of that fraud.

The logic does not apply, as Biblical Christianity is not predicated on Catholicism. Christianity is not a fraud; but Catholics tried to introduce the fraud into it, which up until today they cannot soundly and coherently evidence.

khai_khai:

And all you Catholic bashers might just be partaking in something completely false.

This has been dealt with. It so happens that Catholics themselves have not been able to show why they remain in the falsehood that have been exposed already.

Cheers.

The Roman Catholics are not in any way near Christianity, They are anti Christ that will show up very soon.

Ganjaseed:

The Roman Catholics are not in any way near Christianity, They are anti Christ that will show up very soon.

Kai! The more we try to temper some amicable atmosphere here, the more we find resolved assertions greeting the effort.

dear brothers and sisters
why all these hatred towards catholics?

Is true Christianity a religion or a way of life?

Does the Almighty see you through your religion or religious beliefs?

Is God a respecter of religions?

Did Christ start any religion and does God have any religion?

Why do we humans quarrel about religions(all of which are manmade) while ignoring the important thing which is to live a Christlike life.

I am not a catholic neither do I have any religion but I hate nobody based on his or her religion.

No Religion saves. Only obedience to God saves.

So u think mary and the Apostles ARE IN THEIR GRAVES!

Very much so until Christ comes to resurrect them.

@pilgrim1

What will Jesus do?

What does it mean to be a christian? to be Christ like and walk in His ways. However as humans we are broken and not perfect so we will always err but my bible tells me that this is a journey and i should be striving to get there (been Christ like).

Jesus will pray to God for help and love the Catholics. Is it for you to take matters into your hands? then you are in for a long long unsuccessful battle. Also realise that some of these people were born Catholics and that is what they know and have grown to believe so do not say they deliberately blinded their eyes to the truth.

As Christians what are our spiritual weapons? Is it the condemning words we say? No. Its prayer, fasting and the word. Do you believe in the power of these? if you do you wont say there are mere.

O Lord open the eyes of their understanding.

I used to be a "Catholic" and i heard all the talk about catholicism not true, bla bla and will just smile and say i like it like that. Praise God now i am a christian. i left the catholic church not cos i felt catholicism was wrong or bad but because i got a deeper revelation of God in the pentecostal. Its pathetic that we are all into denominations and all that. if you ask me i will say I am a christian. Christianity is about serving God and being Christ like.

Perharps someone somewhere said the above prayer and God spoke to me but above all its His grace.

@dimpules,

dimpules:

@pilgrim1

What will Jesus do?

. . .

As Christians what are our spiritual weapons? Is it the condemning words we say? No. Its prayer, fasting and the word. Do you believe in the power of these? if you do you wont say there are mere.

I am sorry that you quickly assumed that my rejoinder translated into using "condemning words". However, let me ask you a pointed question:

What DID Jesus do - when He encountered religious folks who refused to face up to truth?

What DID Jesus do, dimpules?

Here, let me remind you of a few:

Matthew 23:13
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom
of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them
that are entering to go in.

Matthew 22:18
But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?

Luke 12:3
Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light;
and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon
the housetops.

It is good too see Jesus as the loving Messiah who went about with edifying words. He actually had "edifying" words for hypocrites who are not interested in acknowledging the truth they know, nor would they let others live in peace!

I'm not suggesting "what would Jesus do" - I'm asking us to look directly at what Jesus DID!

Oh, wait. . . did He pray for them? Oh yes, He did!

Did He use the Word? Sure, He did!

Did He not fast for them? He certainly did!

And the result of all this? Please look again:

Matthew 13:15
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing,
and their eyes they have closed;
lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears,
and should understand with their heart, and should be converted,
and I should heal them.

Yes, no denying the fact - THEY by themselves have chosen to close their eyes!! God didn't close it for them, pilgrim.1 didn't close it for them! Whenever they choose to open their eyes, God WILL heal them!

I don't boast about praying for anybody - I like to shut up about it and instead let God alone see and hear that I actually do pray for them. But He also wants me to keep sharing the hard truth - perhaps some might come to see it someday - whenever they choose to open their eyes.

Cheers.

Bobbyaf:

Very much so until Christ comes to resurrect them.

@bobbyaf
please tell me you don't really believe that

The Roma Catholics church is indeed a church, but they worship the devil himself. From all their worship systems you can see that they are trying to prove God a lier by:-

1. God said do not make any image of any likeness of anything wether in heaven, earth, sea and beneath the earth.
* But the Roman Catholics are not adhering to this. They have more than enough images in their cult houses they
called churches.

2. Do not bow down to any graven image and worship it.
* But the Roman Catholics bow down and worship images.

3. Jesus is the only mediator between Man and God.
* But the Roman Catholics have also disapproved this by employing Mary to advocate for them.

What do we say about this ? This look more of anti Christ to me than Christianity.

Ganjaseed:

The Roma Catholics church is indeed a church, but they worship the devil himself.

Oh my goodness! This one pass my stubborness last year O!

We Catholics have stated our position time and time again and those who choose to accept do so and those who do not criticise. We need to remember that every thing about Christianity is based on the faith and faith is not based on other peoples interpretations of your actions.
The man who eats meat offered to idols and belives it tarnishes him not remains untarnished by it. If another man eats meat the same meat when he belife's otherwise then to him it is sin.

When you read most of the anti-catholic post, you find poeple making sweeping assumptions about the Catholic Church that leaves you wondering at the level of their ignorance about Catholics. The adherants of the faith are not ignorant of the bible and are not too stupid to interprete it so when a Catholic, having read the bible and understood its content still afirms his faith then the least the non-catholic can do is leave him be.

Pentecostals hide under the garment of "Pentecostal" to try to act as-if-na-dem-holy-pass. But the blatant disregard for Christian tenents that emenate from that fold more than speaks for it's self. No body can say the Pentecostal Fellowship is pure. It stinks to the depth of hell and it is riddled with all kinds of occultic practices, whoremongering, avarice, money-grabbing-doctrines, power-drunk elders, charlatants, thieves, anti-christ etc. If any one claims otherwise, then the person is either a liar or simply ignorant. Even the bible says so (about the Christian fold). All of Christianity has been under assault right from the days of the appostles. Nothing is going on now that did not happen then. Christ fore-told it all.

So rather than sit back like arm-chair-arch-angels to condemn and critisise the Catholics, every man should take heed and stand firm, with faith and holiness, and gaurd against falling. When you begin to point at your brothers and sisters and condem them (like you are in possesion of the book of life and know who's name is written there) then look back at yourself and you will how much you have fallen from your last marker.

I read a book by CS Lewis over a decade ago - "A Toast to ScrewTape" (or is it ScrewTape Letters). He tried to capture in his writting, a conference of demons strategising how to bring down the Church; Realising that the age old methods of leading them into blatant sin doesn't work as it should since they where "too aware", the devised a more subtle and more potent method - stir up controversy among them. Let them attack themselves and bring down the roof of their divide house on their head. That seems to be the on going trend.

When that day comes, I firmly belive Christ wont say "All Catholics to the left , pentecostals to the right and others gather behind". It will be personal judgment for every individual.

While we wait for that day maybe the best policy is to continue flaming each other until there is nothing left but a well done crips. Let the Jackals feast on the remains.

Christians should unite in Christ or stand alone in Christ. Be in Christ Sha.

@tomX,
so you've read screwtape letters? how nice. read it myself and screwtape proposes a toast. anyone who has read those books will have a better understanding of how things work in the spiritual realm.

these people can't help but talk and if they choose to talk about the catholic church, so be it!

i know where i belong and what i do there (though i don't believe in vacuum christianity), i either go to heaven with you or without you, choice is yours!

but for life, i remain a catholic .

pilgrim.1:

Oh my goodness! This one pass my stubborness last year O!

pillaw, na so we see am o .

@ganjaseed (what a name )

catholics worship the devil abi, okay i shall have to report you to him so prepare for the repercussions of knowing the truth behind catholic worship.

truly, truly i say unto thee ganjaseed, this was not revealed to thee by flesh and blood but by the seed of the ganja which thou art addicted to smoking and which i daresay thou should lay off because thou seemest to be losing touch with reality!!!

After good ganja I settled down to view the behaviour of mankind especially those that goes to the Catholic shrine they called church, I discovered that everything they do is absolutely contrary and opposite to the Bible I know. Such people should not be called Christ-like (Christians) I think if they are rather called ( Marianist) I will be more comfortable with that. Jah Bless !

Ganjaseed:

After good ganja I settled down to view the behaviour of mankind especially those that goes to the Catholic shrine they called church, I discovered that everything they do is absolutely contrary and opposite to the Bible I know. Such people should not be called Christ-like (Christians) I think if they are rather called ( Marianist) I will be more comfortable with that. Jah Bless !

this remains your opinion, unprovable!

@ganjaseed. feel you man, you spoke my mind in black and white

if una like, deny from now till u die. .
Catholicism started christianity. catholic leaders of that time are responsible for the Bible you read today (and the books that were taken out of it too).
Other christian denominations broke away from them. (and broke away from those that broke away from cathlics).

So, I guess you are the real christians, they are just catholics, abi? ?

Don't mind the yeye sheeples.Let them remove all the contributions made by catholicism to christianity,and let us see what they will have left.
Let them start by turning their back on the NT to start with.Afterall,that fantastic fable was concucted by the catholic eccelesiasts.
Let them do away with the holy trinity,bacause that was another catholic invention.
Let them stop going to church every sunday.
Let them stop celebrating xmas and easter.
Let them stop believing that jesus is the only true son of god,or god made flesh(as they love to believe)
Let them throw away the entire "catholic" bible and construct their own
Let all the "real" christians do all that,and we will se what they will have left with to go on.

Catholicism is chrisitanity,fools.Without the catholic church,jesus christ would never have existed as you know him today.
Without catholicism,christianity would never have been anything but a collection of tiny sects with 1000s of different doctrines.

khai_khai:

if una like, deny from now till u die. .
Catholicism started christianity. catholic leaders of that time are responsible for the Bible you read today (and the books that were taken out of it too).
Other christian denominations broke away from them. (and broke away from those that broke away from cathlics).

So, I guess you are the real christians, they are just catholics, abi? ?

jagunlabi:

Don't mind the yeye sheeples.Let them remove all the contributions made by catholicism to christianity,and let us see what they will have left.

what a collosal error by ignorant people who claim to have once read the bible.

jagunlabi:

Let them start by turning their back on the NT to start with. Afterall,that fantastic fable was concucted by the catholic eccelesiasts.

How naive can these people be? There are ancient new testament scrolls written in hebrew, greek and aramaic. Surely the catholics invented hebrew and aramaic too.

jagunlabi:

Let them do away with the holy trinity,bacause that was another catholic invention.

you are right because no were in the bible do we find a trace of the word "trinity". It is the invention of those who are easily led astray by heresies.

jagunlabi:

Let them stop going to church every sunday.

Even if we started going to church every wednesday God will not be angry and will still accept our worship. Sunday is just a convenient day and a tradition. The bible tells us to worship God in Spirit and in truth wherever we are whatever the date.

jagunlabi:

Let them stop celebrating xmas and easter.

It is not the dates nor the celebrations perse, it is the remembrance of it that is most important. Every waking day in the life of a christian is a celebration of Christ's birth, death and resurrection. We dont have to wait for 2 days out of 365 to celebrate it.
Did you ignorant sheeple know that the breaking of bread is actually a celebration of Christ's death and resurrection and is celebrated whenever?

jagunlabi:

Let them stop believing that jesus is the only true son of god,or god made flesh(as they love to believe)

It is in the bible, the catholics did not invent that.

jagunlabi:

Let them throw away the entire "catholic" bible and construct their own

Their is no bible to construct. The letters of the bible were penned down long before catholicism appeared.

jagunlabi:

Let all the "real" christians do all that,and we will se what they will have left with to go on.

We will still have our Christ, our bible, our faith and our eternal hope of salvation.

jagunlabi:

Catholicism is chrisitanity,fools.Without the catholic church,jesus christ would never have existed as you know him today.

o thou fool and slow to learn . . . Jesus Christ existed well before catholicism. The Jews recognise the existence of Jesus Christ yet they are not catholics.

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one. (John 17:21-22)

Those who divide the Church and cause dissensions because of their disobedience, lack of faith and pride are really opposing Jesus and making his message look like MERE CAJOLERY. The large number of Christian (especially protestant) denominations DOES NOT MAKE CHRISTIANITY look serious, when will we learn?

"There are over 33,000 [protestant] denominations in 238 countries  and every year there is a net increase of around 270 to 300 denominations" (see  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant#Denominations)

If Martin Luther alone was entrusted with spreading the Gospel, the message of Christ would have died 1,000 years ago; because each family would have become a church unto itself. Every community/church will be in disagreement with every other community/church. The truth of Christ will be smothered in the heat of arguments and bickering.  Non-christians will percieve christians as a quarrelsome group in which each person seeks supremacy for his/her own benefit.

Jesus Our Lord knows human nature too well.  Thank Him for telling Peter (Matthew 16:18): "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church". He foresaw our confusion and settled it long in advance,

@Imhotep:

Jesus Our Lord knows human nature too well. Thank Him for telling Peter (Matthew 16:18): "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church", He settled our confusion long in advance

The word 'CHURCH,' could never have been mentioned by Jesus son of Virgin Mary! Considering that it was not in the Jewish vocabulary of his time and not even in it, still. Finally considering that he was not 'come,' to destroy the laws of Moses, how then could Church be anything Jesus talked about? It is impossible and you know it!

olabowale:

@Imhotep: The word 'CHURCH,' could never have been mentioned by Jesus son of Virgin Mary! Considering that it was not in the Jewish vocabulary of his time and not even in it, still. Finally considering that he was not 'come,' to destroy the laws of Moses, how then could Church be anything Jesus talked about? It is impossible and you know it!

Actually, Jews during Jesus ministry on earth spoke Greek:

John 19:20
This title then read many of the Jews:
for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city:
and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.

Could the Jews then not have understood what Jesus meant by the "CHURCH"? Please do a Bible study, if you care; for the word "church" simply means those called out ["ἐκκλησία "ekklēsia" - Greek; or עדה ‛êdâh - "assembly" in Hebrew equivalent].

Either way, the Jews would clearly have understood Jesus!!

The Catholicism has never contributed anything positive to the Christendom. They are hypocrite ! they could not destroy the truth when they where persecuting the early Christians destroying the bible so as to establish the kingdom of the Antichrist, so they came inn with their deception and corrupt the mind of many with heresies and occult ordnances. This is a grievous contribution to the Christian faith. But thank God for the Holy spirit. The holy spirit of God couldn't have thought the Roman Catholics to make images and bow down to them or place Mary and so call saints on higher priority that the Messiah, these are evil distrations of the Antichrist.

Thank God. The protestants are slowly learning the value and meaning of unity. They started the World Council of Churches (WCC) several years ago. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Council_of_Churches , a nice article on the WCC.

You cannot base any lasting church or ecclesial community (or even a spirituality) by simply NEGATING all the teaching of the Catholic Church. You will simply end up with a group of dissenting members continually negating what was first negated. History is full of examples.

You might want to look at the story of Scott Hahn (http://www.scotthahn.com/) . He was a presbyterian pastor who converted to catholicism. Deeply intellectual, his publications marvel some of us traditional catholics, That is the spirit!

Wen I come across issues like this, I am very careful to react, The truth is that whoeva has left the Catholic Church, left in ignorance or for "now-now" miracle. I know that God is a 4giving God even wen u want to prevail against His Church-The catholic Church. Pls my advise for all protestants is to seek the truth about the Catholic Church from the true spirit of God, for no man will satisfy you, Remember Saul was once like u, Still need clarification meet any Rev Fr or call me on 08038823212

The teachings of the Catholic Church are based on well articulated documents, not mere verbal arguments that can be misunderstood or mis-heard. Please see http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm for the DOCUMENTED Cathechism of the Catholic Church. This document should be thoroughly read and digested (and meditated upon) by anyone who may be interested. Verbal arguments only serve to heat up the ambience.

On Catholic Spirituality, one of the finest volumes I have seen is titled "The Three Ages of the Interior Life" . An online copy can be found here : http://www.christianperfection.info . Captivating, meditative reading.

Yes christianity evolved from catholics but HECK NO they are not alike read our bible and read theres take a close look do some research there are so many differnces espically between mexicans I noe cuz I am a mexican christain and all my friends are catholics mexicans their parents get drunk party lyk there iz no 2morro and do so many thigns that are bible is against Imean come on no offense to catholics really or mexicans.

Mexico. . . hmmm.
Back here in Nigeria we have pentecostal pastors who burn church members with petrol, who sleep with their female members at random, who perpetuate all kinds of fraud, who consult occultic shrine to get charms to boost their church memberships etc.
Once upon a time it was a rave for protestant pastors in Nigeria to preach messages like:
"I used to be second in command to the devil before I got born again". I must have heard close to a hundred different pastors preach that message. How many second in commands did the devil have to pick from Nigeria, especialy since they keep stabbing him in the back (abi na Nigeria evil pass?).

princezza:

. . . Imean come on no offense to catholics really or mexicans.

No offense to pentecostals or fellow Nigerians.