Daejoyoung:

Are you talking about proof in the existence of a God? or you are simply saying that religious people are atheists too?

Many religious people do not doubt the existence of the gods of some other religions for instance, they just believe they are devils. e.g it is not uncommon for a Christian to say Ahmadioah is a demon, that christian is not necessarily questioning the existence of ahmadioah but rather he is saying Ahmadioah is the devil ( enemy of both man and God).

So let me get your arguement straight, are you talking about proof of the existence of God? or you are simply saying the ACCEPTANCE of only one God, makes muslims and Christians atheists to other religious people?

He was not talking about Poof of God, He Clearly said, Christians are also atheist, which we have Rejected Already.

He was attempting to change post to Proof of God, which is why we have sent him back to stand by his Original Post, which is Not a Call for the Proof of God.

Now, you would be allowing to change his post

Kobojunkie:
Although proof is desired, it is not a requirement.
Again, take a close review of the meaning of the word.


But it is not atheism, not according to the very definition of the word itself.
No it is not! You have to have a clear understanding of what "atheism" means. Again, disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God, not in a particular God or some gods but all.
Well, there is no law that one has to prove that His God is almighty in with verifiable evidence before one is allowed to believe in God.

But back to the point here, which is that the word atheism cannot be correctly applied in the scenario which you suggest here.

a·the·ism
/ˈāTHēˌizəm/

disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.


Your problem is that you are still restricting your understanding of Atheism within the confines of your belief in the superiority of your own religious god!!!

Remove that veil, and you will get the point!

Understand this simple concept that whether or not you think your god is the everything and everything does not make your god superior in the eyes of another person who worships a different being altogether.

Every religious worshipper think's their god(s) is the real god. So long as you believe that your God is the real and only one, you are atheistic to the other god's. In other words, you don't believe in their god's. Which means, to a Muslim, you are an infidel. To you, muslims are unbelievers. Christians think traditional worshipper's worship idol, traditional worshipper's think you are desecrating their land with your lifeless god.

You call me an atheist because I don't believe in your god. A Muslim will also call you an atheist because you don't believe in their god. You can't claim not to be an atheist to the muslim god because you have not acknowledged that their god is real. Because you believe their god is not real, it makes you an atheist because Atheism means==>

a·the·ism
/ˈāTHēˌizəm/

disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Since you disbelieve in the Muslim god, you are an atheist as far as the 1billion+ Muslims are concerned.

I hope you do get the point!

IamMichael:



a·the·ism
/ˈāTHēˌizəm/

disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.


Your problem is that you are still restricting your understanding of Atheism within the confines of your belief in the superiority of your own religious god!!!

Remove that veil, and you will get the point!

Understand this simple concept that whether or not you think your god is the everything and everything does not make your god superior in the eyes of another person who worships a different being altogether.

Every religious worshipper think's their god(s) is the real god. So long as you believe that your God is the real and only one, you are atheistic to the other god's. In other words, you don't believe in their god's. Which means, to a Muslim, you are an infidel. To you, muslims are unbelievers. Christians think traditional worshipper's worship idol, traditional worshipper's think you are desecrating their land with your lifeless god.

You call me an atheist because I don't believe in your god. A Muslim will also call you an atheist because you don't believe in their god. You can't claim not to be an atheist to the muslim god because you have not acknowledged that their god is real. Because you believe their god is not real, it makes you an atheist because Atheism means==>

Since you disbelieve in the Muslim god, you are an atheist as far as the 1billion+ Muslims are concerned.

I hope you do get the point!

What if a christian doesn't disbelieve in the existence of the muslim god, but simply believes his Christian God is superior? would your theory still hold?

IamMichael:

There understanding is limited by their beliefs.

That's the benefit of.atheism it makes you free minded

Daejoyoung:

Are you talking about proof in the existence of a God? or you are simply saying that religious people are atheists too?

Many religious people do not doubt the existence of the gods of some other religions for instance, they just believe they are devils. e.g it is not uncommon for a Christian to say Ahmadioah is a demon, that christian is not necessarily questioning the existence of ahmadioah but rather he is saying Ahmadioah is the devil ( enemy of both man and God).

So let me get your arguement straight, are you talking about proof of the existence of God? or you are simply saying the ACCEPTANCE of only one God, makes muslims and Christians atheists to other religious people?

Go back to the op bro. You seem to be digressing!

Xavfra:



That's the benefit of.atheism it makes you free minded

100%

Xavfra:



That's the benefit of.atheism it makes you free minded

So the fact that you don't believe in a god or gods makes you free minded? Interesting.

a·the·ism
/ˈāTHēˌizəm/

disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

IamMichael:
Your problem is that you are still restricting your understanding of Atheism within the confines of your belief in the superiority of your own religious god!!! Remove that veil, and you will get the point!

The definition of the word as posted is from the dictionary, not a bible. There is nothing religious to the definiton there.

IamMichael:
Understand this simple concept that whether or not you think your god is the everything and everything does not make your god superior in the eyes of another person who worships a different being altogether.

Stop pretending you can present the delusions of your own mind as valid concepts in this. Learn to stick to the topic of discussion.

IamMichael:
Every religious worshipper think's their god(s) is the real god. So long as you believe that your God is the real and only one, you are atheistic to the god's. In other words, you don't believe in their god's. Which means, to a Muslim, you are an infidel. To you, muslims are unbelievers. Christians think traditional worshipper's worship idol, traditional worshipper's think you are desecrating their land with your lifeless god.

You are wrong! And I only have the dictionary definition of the word "Atheism" to show this.

IamMichael:
You call me an atheist because I don't believe in your god. A Muslim will also call you an atheist because you don't believe in their god. You can't claim not to be an atheist to the muslim god because you have not acknowledged that their god is real. Because you believe their god is not real, it makes you an atheist because Atheism means==>
Since you disbelief in the Muslim god, you are an atheist as far as the 1billion+ Muslims are concerned.
I hope you do get the point!

Well, I don't call you an atheist because I think you are a religious kind. I used to be an atheist myself-- I found God in October of 2017 mind you, but I never trolled religious chatrooms/forums making inane assertions such as the one you have here, twisting the meaning of words to make some moot point.
That said, the word "atheism" refers to those who have no God. Sure, atheists also fall under the "unbeliever" flag, but unbelievers are not all the same. A Muslim would not call me an atheist since I do believe in a God, just not his/her God. I would not call a pagan an atheist because a Pagan in fact believes in at least one god, just not the same God as mine. And so on and so forth!

IamMichael:

Go back to the op bro. You seem to be digressing!

You are the one digressing here, the op states that christians and muslims are atheists to other religions for not accepting those gods. We aren't debating proof of a god here, so why bring that up in my first reply to you?
The point is that muslims and Christians are not atheists in the way the word is used today, the Romans called Christians atheists then ( I know), but today atheism is philosophical. When you say someone is an atheist, it means the person rejects a being or external power as the source of our existence.

IamMichael:

Go back to the op bro. You seem to be digressing!

This from you?

Daejoyoung:

What if a christian doesn't disbelieve in the existence of the muslim god, but simply believes his Christian God is superior? would your theory still hold?

Does your disbelieve that the Muslim god is not superior to your own god make muslims bow down to your god as the superior Almighty Lord?

You answer that.

Daejoyoung:

So the fact that you don't believe in a god or gods makes you free minded? Interesting.

Not exactly but a greater part......

IamMichael:

100%

Surely

Xavfra:



Not exactly but a greater part......

How is that actually? some believe in God but are not fans of doctrines and religious stories. Some are fans of these stories, but are not fanatics. So even then there are different types of religious and non religious people. I have argued with fanatical atheists here too.

Xavfra:
Not exactly but a greater part......

So, what makes you more free-minded?
I am at least glad you did not posit that you are more open-minded, phew!

Daejoyoung:

You are the one digressing here, the op states that christians and muslims are atheists to other religions for not accepting those gods. We aren't debating proof of a god here, so why bring that up in my first reply to you?
The point is that muslims and Christians are not atheists in the way the word is used today, the Romans called Christians atheists then ( I know), but today atheism is philosophical. When you say someone is an atheist, it means the person rejects a being or external power as the source of our existence.

We are both saying the same thing. You are just misunderstanding it from the religious perspective you subscribe to. That's why i requested that you go back to the Op. That way, you don't start asking questions i have not inferred in any way!

IamMichael:


Does your disbelieve that the Muslim god is not superior to your own god make muslims bow down to your god as the superior Almighty Lord?

You answer that.

No, but the muslims know that I believe in something. Something as a source, even if they want to call it Santa claus.

But both I and the Muslim know that atheists don't believe in anything. Not even Santa Clause.

You get the difference?

Kobojunkie:


The definition of the word as posted is from the dictionary, not a bible. There is nothing religious to the definiton there.
Stop pretending you can present the delusions of your own mind as valid concepts in this. Learn to stick to the topic of discussion.
You are wrong! And I only have the dictionary definition of the word "Atheism" to show this.
Well, I don't call you an atheist because I think you are a religious kind. I used to be an atheist myself-- I found God in October of 2017 mind you, but I never trolled religious chatrooms/forums making inane assertions such as the one you have here, twisting the meaning of words to make some moot point.
That said, the word "atheism" refers to those who have no God. Sure, atheists also fall under the "unbeliever" flag, but unbelievers are not all the same. A Muslim would not call me an atheist since I do believe in a God, just not his/her God. I would not call a pagan an atheist because a Pagan in fact believes in at least one god, just not the same God as mine. And so on and so forth!

I don't like digressions.

Lets end this discuss with a simple question.

Do you believe that Allah, the Muslim god is the almighty God and that he is real?

IamMichael:
I don't like digressions.
Lets end this discuss with a simple question.

So you say!

IamMichael:
Do you believe that Allah, the Muslim god is the almighty God and that he is real?

I thought you just stated that you don't like digressions?
Dude! Make up your mind !

Daejoyoung:

No, but the muslims know that I believe in something. Something as a source, even if they want to call it Santa claus.

But both I and the Muslim know that atheists don't believe in anything. Not even Santa Clause.

You get the difference?

You are not getting the point.

That you believe in something is not the point here. The point is, do you believe their god is the real god in the same way you believe in yours?

Kobojunkie:
So you say!
I thought you just stated that you don't like digressions?
Dude! Make up your mind !

Answer the question.


You want to run away. I know I have been saying exactly the same thing and have not digressed one bit. I know also i have been curtailing the digressions you have been intending to introduce into the discuss.
So answer the question.

IamMichael:

I don't like digressions.

Lets end this discuss with a simple question.

Do you believe that Allah, the Muslim god is the almighty God and that he is real?

Allah is something or a being the muslim believes in, he is taken as Almighty by muslims, therefore I know that muslims are not atheists. Even though I disagree with them.

As for me, I believe in the spaghetti monster as the only true god, and the Muslim cannot call me an atheist for believing in the flying spaghetti monster.

Even though the muslim and I both disbelieve in the flying monster and Allah respectively, we are not atheists in the true sense of the word, when thinking about each other, we just see each other as unbelievers and pagans, not atheists.

Atheists don't even have a santa clause or flying monster or Allah/jesus, etc.

IamMichael:

You are not getting the point.

That you believe in something is not the point here. The point is, do you believe their god is the real god in the same way you believe in yours?

No but that is not the position of the atheist. I believe the world requires a creator, I believe in the need for a god, the atheist does not.

It's a simple sturv.

IamMichael:

Answer the question.

What good does my answer do to this thread or even the topic of this thread, let alone you?

IamMichael:
You want to run away.

Really?

IamMichael:
I know I have been saying exactly the same thing and have not digressed one bit. I know also i have been curtailing the digressions you have been intending to introduce into the discuss.

IamMichael:
So answer the question.

Since you had the nerve to accuse me of digressing, why should I?

Daejoyoung:


Allah is something or a being the muslim believes in, he is taken as Almighty by muslims, therefore I know that muslims are not atheists. Even though I disagree with them.

As for me, I believe in the spaghetti monster as the only true god, and the Muslim cannot call me an atheist for believing in the flying spaghetti monster.

Even though the muslim and I both disbelieve in the flying monster and Allah respectively, we are not atheists in the true sense of the word, when thinking about each other, we just see each other as unbelievers and pagans, not atheists.

Atheists don't even have a santa clause or flying monster or Allah/jesus, etc.

Do you believe that Allah, the Muslim god is the almighty God and that he is real?


This is a very simple Yes or No answer. Whether there are people who worship it is not the question you are asked.
That you believe in Spaghetti Monster is not what is asked you.

IamMichael:


Do you believe that Allah, the Muslim god is the almighty God and that he is real?


This is a very simple Yes or No answer. Whether there are people who worship it is not the question you are asked.
That you believe in Spaghetti Monster is not what is asked you.

I have told you no, lol.
So how does that prove your point?
I answered your question in my last post as NO.

I don't believe in Allah, so how does that make me an atheist? since you wanna go round in circles, or it may just be that you don't even understand what you are talking about.

Daejoyoung:

How is that actually? some believe in God but are not fans of doctrines and religious stories. Some are fans of these stories, but are not fanatics. So even then there are different types of religious and non religious people. I have argued with fanatical atheists here too.

That's why I said a greater part......
Free minded as an atheist is that you're able to let in new information into your head (it's your duty to scrutinise it)

I've as well argued with fanatical Christians and most if not all I've met aren't open minded

Daejoyoung:

No but that is not the position of the atheist. I believe the world requires a creator, I believe in the need for a god, the atheist does not.

It's a simple sturv.

Atheism simply means disbelief in god's.


Whether or not you believe in your god or that he created the universe is not the atheist's concern.

Do you go about bothering whether or not Santa Claus is real? Do you go about bothering yourself whether or not Allah is real?

You don't bother about them because you believe they're not real, and that your God is the only actual real authentic God. That disbelief you have of other gods is what Atheism is.

The difference between the people you call Atheists and you is that you are still holding unto one more god. In the case of the Atheist, he has discarded it all and saying all of them are not real.
In your own case, you are holding one more god in your belief, and have discarded the rest as not real. Some people have multiple god's they worship too.

I hope you do get the point!

Xavfra:



That's why I said a greater part......
Free minded as an atheist is that you're able to let in new information into your head (it's your duty to scrutinise it)

I've as well argued with fanatical Christians and most if not all I've met aren't open minded

Any religous person can allow new information as well. Atheism sometimes makes you close minded too, because you come from a naturalistic world view by default and you interprete everything from that lens, just like Christians who believe in the spiritual want to view things from that lens.

Kobojunkie:
So, what makes you more free-minded?
I am at least glad you did not posit that you are more open-minded, phew!

Because I'm able to accept every type of info and scrutinise them....

See the image below and clarify yourself

Xavfra:
Because I'm able to accept every type of info and scrutinise them....
See the image below and clarify yourself

Well, you did say you were free-minded, not open-minded, in the beginning. I think you are more free-minded than an open-minded person.

Open-mindedness is receptiveness to new ideas. Open-mindedness relates to the way in which people approach the views and knowledge of others, and It means to be respected as a mindless person.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-mindedness

I have not seen much of that out of you though.

IamMichael:

Atheism simply means disbelief in god's.


Whether or not you believe in your god or that he created the universe is not the atheist's concern.

Do you go about bothering whether or not Santa Claus is real? Do you go about bothering yourself whether or not Allah is real?

You don't bother about them because you believe they're not real, and that your God is the only actual real authentic God. That disbelief you have of other gods is what Atheism is.

The difference between the people you call Atheists and you is that you are still holding unto one more god. In the case of the Atheist, he has discarded it all and saying all of them are not real.
In your own case, you are holding one more god in your belief, and have discarded the rest as not real. Some people have multiple god's they worship too.

I hope you do get the point!

We are going round in circles, from my first post I told you the definition of atheism is a question of God from a philosophical stand point.

I would simply call you an unbeliever if you are open to the existence of a GOD AS SOURCE but I would never call you an atheist.
That is the bone of contention here, it doesn't matter what or who this God is.

The question is: Are you open to calling anything GOD? you may even believe your phone is God and should be worshipped, and you are no longer an atheist to me. It doesn't mean I also believe your phone is a real god.