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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. (4375 Views)
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Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by IamMichael(m): 4:53pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Daejoyoung: You confuse things and end up misunderstanding them in the end. You want to ascribe to Atheism what Atheism is not. Atheism cannot be and can never be made a religion because it doesn't require worship of anything. Atheism simply means disbelief in God or god's. I don't know what is hard to understand in this simple sentence. When you say something is a lie, it simply means that thing does not have the elements required to make it true. When you disbelieve a statement someone makes, it means that statement doesn't contain elements that will make you believe it to be true. I'm done explaining a simple sentence over and over again. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by IamMichael(m): 4:55pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Daejoyoung:You are just running in circles. Why do you call Atheists Atheists? |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by IamMichael(m): 5:00pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Daejoyoung:At least know the meaning of the words you use so that you don't mix up facts and make wrong conclusions.
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Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Daejoyoung: 5:02pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
IamMichael:I call atheists atheists, because they don't believe anything at all was the first cause. Deists believe that something was the first cause, and religious people believe that too. Agnostics don't know, but may be open to it. Atheists as we have come to know them are the very opposite of theists, they reject the question of the first cause. To them there is no first cause, and we are just here. To understand more about atheism, read about the German philosopher Nietzsche. Of course we are all atheiststic and agnostic to other things, but specifically the term atheism is a philosophical ( not necessarily religious) question of the concept of God as the source of everything. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Daejoyoung: 5:06pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
IamMichael:So how does your quote invalidate whatever I said? You are a funny one, albeit interesting, lol. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by IamMichael(m): 5:06pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Kobojunkie:I don't understand... What is your point?
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Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Kobojunkie: 5:09pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
IamMichael:The statements below are equivalent - Atheism = disbelief in the existence of God or god's.- Atheism != disbelief in the existence of a particular God or some gods |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by IamMichael(m): 5:10pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Kobojunkie:Lol. How then did the Freethinker become a Freethinker if he wasn't open minded? Most Nigerian Freethinkers came from a Religious background. Try the reason talk wella. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Kobojunkie: 5:12pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
IamMichael:Probably by rejecting opinions and ideas that are widely accepted free·think·er IamMichael:Sure, but that doesn't mean they are open-minded individuals though. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Vic2Ree(m): 5:17pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
IamMichael:Bro, I have to say, after properly assessing your OP, Kobojunkie has a point. Atheism means the lack of belief in the existence of any deities. Basically, it is absurd to have belief in any deity at all, and still call yourself an atheist. The moment you believe in (even if it's one) god, you cannot be a-theos (without-god) Edit: Just wanted to add, I think the misconception may arise from how you want to define god here. From an etymological viewpoint, you are wrong. But if you want to restrict the discussion to a particular religion like Islam for example, maybe you could probably call Christians atheists with respect to Allah only. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by IamMichael(m): 5:22pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Daejoyoung:All the confusion and misinformation you are operating on are based on your own religious bias. A blind veil is still covering your eyes. It's impossible to be a free thinker and be close minded. You are restricting the close-mindedness to the lack of openness to considering the things in your religion as likely to be true. The problem is, you have not shown any evidence to make him reconsider his stance on your religion. You cannot be peddling a lie and expect someone who knows it is a lie to consider that your lie could be true. When you see a soured soup, don't you know? Do you need magic to know it? If I say 1 + 3 = 2, won't you think I'm not okay? Same thing applies exactly to an atheist. He has grown out of religion and now see's religion exactly for what it is! Make una dey reason things logically! |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Kobojunkie: 5:24pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Vic2Ree:Even that assumption fails, because to some Christians, Allah does indeed exist, they just do not choose to trust in Allah. Now, some Muslims believe that the God of the Bible is the same God they worship, only that the Christians worship him in the wrong way. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by IamMichael(m): 5:24pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Daejoyoung:Like I keep saying, the confusion is from you. Atheists believe in things. Religious god's is just one of the things they don't believe in. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Nobody: 5:27pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Kobojunkie: How do they act or claim religious.... I said I'm free minded not close minded |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Daejoyoung: 5:29pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
IamMichael:Not believing in religious gods is not what makes atheists stand out, what makes them distinct is that they don't believe in the concept of God. The concept of God, and religious god, are two separate issues that depend on one another, but are not necessarily thesame. You are conflating the two. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Vic2Ree(m): 5:30pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Kobojunkie:Thats true as well Speaking of Allah. I just realized Islam is an abrahamic religion as well just like Christianity descended from Judaism. I know adherents of Christianity and islam who see Yahweh and Allah as one and the same. Infact, when debating with Theists, I've noticed that some of them believe that all religions worship The same god, just in different ways. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by IamMichael(m): 5:36pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Daejoyoung:Lol. It's funny that you should say I'm funny. You mentioned deist and i showed you the meaning, but obviously, you didn't get the point! A logical person would have known if his comparison between a Deist and Atheist was in tandem or are connected. "Deism is the philosophical position that rejects revelation as a source of religious knowledge and asserts that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to establish the existence of a Supreme Being or creator of the universe." If a deist decides to use reason and observations to prove the existence of a Supreme being, it's their business. However, whatever reason or observation a deist proposes as his proof will also face the same Logical scrutiny. It is not a new thing. Many people have tried to use reason to explain God, but everyone knows that God and reason don't travel in the same sentence! |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Daejoyoung: 5:39pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
IamMichael:I know that deists are not atheists, my point is that they don't believe in any religious god like you but that doesn't mean they should be called atheists just simply because they don't subscribe to any religious God ( like atheists). The reason deists are not atheists is that they answer YES to the concept of God ( not necessarily the religious idea of God) while atheists answer NO to both the religious idea and the philosophical concepts. So I see no reason why you'll have to define Deism for me. My post didn't warrant that, this is why I said you are funny. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by IamMichael(m): 5:41pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Kobojunkie:Opinions are rejected, Facts are not! Anyone who rejects facts are not open-minded. That's why every open minded definition will make reference to religious people as not being open minded. Being open minded is what destroys the religious delusions and illusions, which are replaced with logic and evidence based reasoning. That's the difference! |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Kobojunkie: 5:41pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Xavfra:For that we consult other meanings of religion re·li·gionBy that, any concept can be made into a religion by those who subscribe to it. Xavfra:OK. But just so you know, free-mindedness is not the opposite of close-mindedness. So it is possible to be free-minded and close-minded at the same time. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Kobojunkie: 5:43pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Vic2Ree:Now you see why this thread was based on some seriously faulty assumption on the part of the @OP. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Nobody: 5:46pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Kobojunkie: Okay...... See photo attached below...... I doubt it's possible to be the both at the same time .....
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Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Kobojunkie: 5:47pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
IamMichael:The Open-minded do not reject opinions... they respect them since it is clear in many cases that you cannot disprove all beliefs as far as the mind is concerned. IamMichael:Not true! Open-mindedness does not attempt to destroy any such because the open-minded understands the need for some of these delusions, even in the face of reason. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Kobojunkie: 5:51pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Xavfra:Use this thread for a case study. Who has been trying so hard to make a point where non-exists all this while? The one who believes in God or the one who claims to be a freethinker? |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by IamMichael(m): 5:51pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Vic2Ree:@bolded, that's exactly my point. If you interpret Atheism strictly word for word, your lack of belief in my God places you as an atheist. If i have a God who you don't believe in, you are an atheist to it because that is strictly the definition of Atheism. If I believe that my phone is my God but you don't believe, you are an atheist because an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God or god's. It doesn't matter the form the god in question comes in. If someone believes it to be a God but you lack believe in it, you are an atheist in the definition of the word. Your own belief of any God/god's has nothing to do with it. The key word is disbelief. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Nobody: 5:53pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Kobojunkie: The both parties are pressing their points against each other..... See, to be a be free thinker doesn't mean you jump from one rope to another.....it implies your ability to accept infos....... |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Kobojunkie: 5:58pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Xavfra: Xavfra: free·think·er Xavfra:Remember, we have a definition from the Dictionary to work with. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by IamMichael(m): 6:02pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Daejoyoung:God is generic to begin with. To you, Yahweh is God. To another, Allah is God. To a traditional worshipper in Igbo land, Chukwu is God. To the Traditional worshipper's in Yoruba, Ogun or Sango or the related deity of worship is God. To the Greeks, Zeus is God. When you mention God, you are not singling out a God because the term is generic and is associated with Religion. I have noticed that you guys avoid using the actual names of your god's because it lessens them. God doesn't exist in the dictionary of non-religious people. People who dwell in God or God concept are Religious people. Therefore, you can't turn around and say the concept of God is different from Religious god's. Even if a creator exists, who told you it is a God? Do you take Mark Zuckerberg as a God because he created something that billions of people are addicted to? Try to see things from a wider perspective bro. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Nobody: 6:05pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Kobojunkie: I use the term free thinker because I allow every opinion and info, it is left for me in myself to debunk and scrutinise it.......... In as.much as might reject them.......... NB: I'm apatheist.. ...... |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Daejoyoung: 6:07pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
IamMichael:The bolded is not true. Again are deists religious? no they are not. If a creator exist, then it answers a major philosophical question concerning the concept of God. You can say we should not worship the creator or call the creator God, but you would be in line with many theists who believe in a creator, as the answer to why we are here. |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Kobojunkie: 6:08pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
Xavfra:If that be the case, why do you spend so much time here? |
Re: All Christians And Muslims Are Atheists. by Daejoyoung: 6:11pm On Jul 01, 2020 |
IamMichael:If you define atheism like this, then it is a useless term and loses its meaning because apart from universalists, everyone disbelieves in one God or the other, simply saying we are all atheists to some thing, makes no difference. The term atheism is now specifically used to distinguish people who do not entertain the question of God ( any God ) as necessary. |
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