sotall:


At best the the bible (new testament) tells you to shut your brain and follow jesus like a zombie.

This is untrue, sotall. In that same book where you read about Jesus you read how he did not shut his brain and refused to be a zombie to the book of his day, which was in fact why he was crucified.

sonmvayina:


How can something that has no matter harm me, do you believe ghost can harm people, exactly how?

When you learnt that you could die by various means and ways, did you Truthfully restrict it to physical things alone, especially being a kid born in Nigeria?

[quote author=MuttleyLaff post=91621885]Forgiveness, doesnt mean a price has been paid. The purpose is to reconciliation

I laugh in Aramaic at you saying that Jesus is useless in the whole equation. It betrays a glaring lack of understanding correctly the whole essence of why God had to come to earth, why it was necessary that its Him who had to come, why God had to die, why et cetera

kindly provide evidence. That God came as jesus.

[s]Jesus Christ is not an idol. Jesus Christ, is God incarnate. I am sure, you're intelligent enough to understand what that means and/or implies[/s]

evidence

kkins25:
kindly provide evidence.

[img]https://s3/images/ObamaMuttley.gif[/img]
Provide evidence of particularly what?

budaatum:

So you wrongly believe.

I don't think so.. Your problem is you are still yet to figure out what God is and is not...

MuttleyLaff:
Forgiveness, doesnt mean a price has been paid. The purpose is to reconciliation

I laugh in Aramaic at you saying that Jesus is useless in the whole equation. It betrays a glaring lack of understanding correctly the whole essence of why God had to come to earth, why it was necessary that its Him who had to come, why God had to die, why et cetera

Jesus Christ is not an idol. Jesus Christ, is God incarnate. I am sure, you're intelligent enough to understand what that means and/or implies

There is just no where in the entire old testament where the plan was hatched.. No where,

Why should a god die?

MuttleyLaff:
Forgiveness, doesnt mean a price has been paid. The purpose is to reconciliation

I laugh in Aramaic at you saying that Jesus is useless in the whole equation. It betrays a glaring lack of understanding correctly the whole essence of why God had to come to earth, why it was necessary that its Him who had to come, why God had to die, why et cetera

Jesus Christ is not an idol. Jesus Christ, is God incarnate. I am sure, you're intelligent enough to understand what that means and/or implies

Where did you get that idea from?.. Old testament quotes please..

sonmvayina:
Where did you get that idea from?.. Old testament quotes please..

"The life of every living thing is in the blood,
and that is why the LORD has commanded that all blood be poured out on the altar to take away the people's sins.
Blood, which is life, takes away sins."
- Leviticus 17:11

The shedding of animal blood only provides forgiveness. It doesnt reconcile or redeem souls back to God. The blood of animals was only capable of facilitating forgiveness. It didnt reconcile man, back to God. It is the shedded blood of Jesus that reconciled man back to God. Jesus' purpose on earth was to be the Lamb of God taken to slaughter for the sin of the world. Redemption, reconciliation and/or the restoration of friendly relations with God, came through the shedded blood of Jesus.

sonmvayina:


I don't think so.. Your problem is you are still yet to figure out what God is and is not...

What is God, Sonm?

budaatum:

I would not say two naked people in the Garden of Eden knew anything about God, especially since they had not yet consumed the fruit that gives knowledge. There definitely is no indication they "saw(Wisdom), knew(Knowledge) and understand" anything, not to talk of God, or they would not have doubted God. But I guess many would believe what they would.

.


Two naked people standing before Who created them. They saw Him and before eating the forbidden Fruit, KNEW HIM. The Knowledge after eating the FRUIT was THE PROS AND CONS OF KNOWLEDGE AND OF CREATION ASIDE THE CREATOR.

THEY RECEIVED THE GARDEN AND ITS CONTENTS OF GOODIES AND STARTED ENJOYING THEM. SINCE THEY WERE NOT CREATED THIEVES OF BAGDAD, THEY SHOULD BELIEVE IN HIM WHO GAVE THEM. THAT IS FAITH.

AS KNOWLEDGE AND BELIEF HAPPENED CONTEMPORANEOUSLY, THEY BECAME TWO SPIRITS OF THE SUPREME SPIRIT GIVEN FREELY TO ADAM & EVE AT CREATION.

budaatum:
Books of Plato and Aristotle despite their factual errors, The Quran, The Dhammapada, and Nelkon - my secondary school textbook on Physics, to name a few.

Even Christ warned not to read only one book least one become malnourished.

I asked what book that comes within a mile of the Bible, in terms, of salvation, problem targeting, problem solving, clarity of purpose, freedom/freewill exercising, process(es)/procedure(s) et cetera and you palm forward Books of Plato and Aristotle despite their factual errors, The Quran, The Dhammapada, and Nelkon - my secondary school textbook on Physics, and have the cheek to add "[i]to name a few[/I]"

I am please you admit Books of Plato and Aristotle have factual errors, but how the Quran, escaped your notice of qualifying to having its own fair share of factual errors, as well, is baffling. Even the Quran’s teachings regarding salvation are inconsistent

The Dhammapada and Nelkon - your secondary school textbook on Physics has nothing on salvation, nothing on sin problem targeting, nothing on sin problem solving.

sonmvayina:
I don't think so.. Your problem is you are still yet to figure out what God is and is not...

budaatum:
What is God, Sonm?

sonmvayina:
I have been saying the same thing. God is the same everywhere, it is the names that are different. The Babylonian might decide to use Enki and the Yoruba use obatala. End of the day.. They represent the creative aspect of God...
The Babylonian might call him Marduk, the igbos chukwu, the Yorubas Eledumare. They all represent the totality of the consciousness of the Universe. Or the creator.. I have never deviated from these principles. Or have I?

sonmvayina:
God is the universal divine consciousness... Personified..
The personified name varies from culture to culture.. The creator of the heavens and the earth.
He is not a man or human being and most importantly NOT PART OF CREATION.

sonmvayina:
1. God is the totality of the consciousness of the universe fully embodied and personified.. I just added the divine because it is holy...
2. You know what personification means.. Don't you?.. It means consciousness given human attributes.. For the sole purpose of reminding ourselves that we are part of it and it is part of us..
3.jesus is a Roman/Greek created character.. Just to distract you from worshipping your creator.. It has got nothing to do with the creator..
4. Creator goes by different names in different cultures.. AMEN RA in ancient Egypt, Chukwu in igbo, Eledumare in yoruba, Osanobua in edo, Vishnu in India, Hashem in Hebrew, etc..
5. God is not part of creation, but the whole of creation itself.. God is existence itself, not part of it..

budaatum meet sonmvayina's "What is God?" contradicting himself responses

budaatum:

I would not say two naked people in the Garden of Eden knew anything about God, especially since they had not yet consumed the fruit that gives knowledge. There definitely is no indication they "saw(Wisdom), knew(Knowledge) and understand" anything, not to talk of God, or they would not have doubted God. But I guess many would believe what they would.

THANKS Budaatum. THE CONSCIENCE, THAT'S THE BREATH OF GOD GIVEN AT CREATION WAS

1 THE LIGHT AND DARKNESS

2, THE GOOD AND EVIL

3,. THE LIFE AND DEATH

4,. THE FAITH(BELIEF) AND FORGET (DISBELIEF)

5,. THE HOPE (TRUST) AND ABANDON (DISTRUST)

6,. PEACE AND WORRY

7,. LOVE AND HATE OF THE SUPREME SPIRIT IN ALL HIS CREATURES.

8,. THE CONSCIENCE IS ALSO THE ART, SCIENCE AND PNEUMATOLOGY OF INSTRUCTIONS AND WISDOM AND FOOLISHNESS;

DIRECTION AND KNOWLEDGE AND STUPIDITY;

DISCERNMENT AND UNDERSTANDING AND IGNORANCE.

9,. ALL OF THE ABOVE WERE GIVEN ADAM & EVE BEFORE THEY DISOBEDIENTLY ATE THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT. AND SO

10,. THE NECESSITY FOR THE TEN COMMANDMENTS WAS OVER INDULGENCE OF THE HIGH LEVEL CRIMINALS AT THE GARDEN OF EDEN.

From Orunto27.

budaatum:

What is God, Sonm?

The creator of the Universe..

MuttleyLaff:
"The life of every living thing is in the blood,
and that is why the LORD has commanded that all blood be poured out on the altar to take away the people's sins.
Blood, which is life, takes away sins."
- Leviticus 17:11

The shedding of animal blood only provides forgiveness. It doesnt reconcile or redeem souls back to God. The blood of animals was only capable of facilitating forgiveness. It didnt reconcile man, back to God. It is the shedded blood of Jesus that reconciled man back to God. Jesus' purpose on earth was to be the Lamb of God taken to slaughter for the sin of the world. Redemption, reconciliation and/or the restoration of friendly relations with God, came through the shedded blood of Jesus.

Where did you get this from?.. When did God start accepting human sacrifice?.

He called it an abomination

Dtruthspeaker:


When you learnt that you could die by various means and ways, did you Truthfully restrict it to physical things alone, especially being a kid born in Nigeria?

How do spiritual things harm?

MuttleyLaff:
"The life of every living thing is in the blood,
and that is why the LORD has commanded that all blood be poured out on the altar to take away the people's sins.
Blood, which is life, takes away sins."
- Leviticus 17:11

The shedding of animal blood only provides forgiveness. It doesnt reconcile or redeem souls back to God. The blood of animals was only capable of facilitating forgiveness. It didnt reconcile man, back to God. It is the shedded blood of Jesus that reconciled man back to God. Jesus' purpose on earth was to be the Lamb of God taken to slaughter for the sin of the world. Redemption, reconciliation and/or the restoration of friendly relations with God, came through the shedded blood of Jesus.

OK, let us for the purpose of argument assume that the blood of Jesus was necessary.. So it means everybody irrespective of actions will all go to heaven.. Is it..?

sonmvayina:
Where did you get this from?

Where did I get what from?

sonmvayina:
When did God start accepting human sacrifice?

"Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but my ears You have opened.
Burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not require"
- Psalm 40:6

¹The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves.
The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year,
but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship.
²If they could have provided perfect cleansing, the sacrifices would have stopped, for the worshipers would have been purified once for all time, and their feelings of guilt would have disappeared.
³But instead, those sacrifices actually reminded them of their sins year after year.
⁴For it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
⁵That is why, when Christa came into the world, he said to God,
“You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings.
But you have given me a body to offer.
⁶You were not pleased with burnt offerings or other offerings for sin.
⁷Then I said, ‘Look, I have come to do your will, O God—
as is written about me in the Scriptures.’”
⁸First, Christ said, “You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings or burnt offerings or other offerings for sin, nor were you pleased with them” (though they are required by the law of Moses).
⁹Then he said, “Look, I have come to do your will.” He cancels the first covenant in order to put the second into effect.
¹⁰For God’s will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time.
- Hebrews 10:1-10

Except for father Abraham, God has never required a human sacrifice from any other ordinary human being. The sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, was carried out through Him legally sentenced to die on the cross at Calvary and like a sheep being led to the slaughter or a lamb that is silent before her shearers, He did not open His mouth to protest His innocence (i.e. Isaiah 53:7 and Acts 8:32)

sonmvayina:
He called it an abomination

Yup, God called the Molech practice, the burning of children in the fire to Baal, the shedding of innocent blood, the blood of Israelites' sons and daughters, the sacrificing of them to the idols of Canaan et cetera disgusting to Him

You can't accept(believe) what you don't know.

Hence, 'knowledge' births belief.

-Lloyd

sonmvayina:
OK, let us for the purpose of argument assume that the blood of Jesus was necessary.. So it means everybody irrespective of actions will all go to heaven.. Is it..?

You at one time or the other, will have to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour. You will have to at one time or the other acknowledge that Jesus is God and that you believe in Him. If you tick the boxes, you, at the very least, get a free pass to the kingdom of Heaven

MuttleyLaff:
You at one time or the other, will have to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour. You will have to at one time or the other acknowledge that Jesus is God and that you believe in Him. If you tick the boxes, you, at the very least, get a free pass to the kingdom of Heaven

Lol.. So it also comes with conditions.. Meaning it did not work or it is a failure..

Get sense, is God a man or a human being?.. Number 23:19...

MuttleyLaff:
"The life of every living thing is in the blood,
and that is why the LORD has commanded that all blood be poured out on the altar to take away the people's sins.
Blood, which is life, takes away sins."
- Leviticus 17:11

The shedding of animal blood only provides forgiveness. It doesnt reconcile or redeem souls back to God. The blood of animals was only capable of facilitating forgiveness. It didnt reconcile man, back to God. It is the shedded blood of Jesus that reconciled man back to God. Jesus' purpose on earth was to be the Lamb of God taken to slaughter for the sin of the world. Redemption, reconciliation and/or the restoration of friendly relations with God, came through the shedded blood of Jesus.

read this and tell me what you think

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism%27s_view_of_Jesus

sonmvayina:
read this and tell me what you think

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism%27s_view_of_Jesus

You do know that Jesus was at loggerheads with four major establishments, hmm, namely, marketeers, teachers/scribes, lawyers and Pharisees/Sadducees, hmm?

The fourth, in that group, as returning exiles, imported Judaism to the Southern kingdom of Judah. There was no love lost between then and Jesus

MuttleyLaff:


budaatum meet sonmvayina's "What is God?" contradicting himself responses

Do you really need to introduce me to someone I'm already having a conversation with?

MuttleyLaff:
I asked what book that comes within a mile of the Bible, in terms, of salvation, problem targeting, problem solving, clarity of purpose, freedom/freewill exercising, process(es)/procedure(s) et cetera and you palm forward Books of Plato and Aristotle despite their factual errors, The Quran, The Dhammapada, and Nelkon - my secondary school textbook on Physics, and have the cheek to add "[i]to name a few[/I]"

I am please you admit Books of Plato and Aristotle have factual errors, but how the Quran, escaped your notice of qualifying to having its own fair share of factual errors, as well, is baffling. Even the Quran’s teachings regarding salvation are inconsistent

The Dhammapada and Nelkon - your secondary school textbook on Physics has nothing on salvation, nothing on sin problem targeting, nothing on sin problem solving.

I'll listen to you when you've read the books mentioned.

As for factual errors in the Quran, errors exist in the Bible too as no book is perfect on these things.

This is a belief, orunto27. It is not based of facts.

orunto27:
.
Two naked people standing before Who created them. They saw Him and before eating the forbidden Fruit, KNEW HIM. The Knowledge after eating the FRUIT was THE PROS AND CONS OF KNOWLEDGE AND OF CREATION ASIDE THE CREATOR.

THEY RECEIVED THE GARDEN AND ITS CONTENTS OF GOODIES AND STARTED ENJOYING THEM. SINCE THEY WERE NOT CREATED THIEVES OF BAGDAD, THEY SHOULD BELIEVE IN HIM WHO GAVE THEM. THAT IS FAITH.

AS KNOWLEDGE AND BELIEF HAPPENED CONTEMPORANEOUSLY, THEY BECAME TWO SPIRITS OF THE SUPREME SPIRIT GIVEN FREELY TO ADAM & EVE AT CREATION.

budaatum:

Do you really need to introduce me to someone I'm already having a conversation with?

Lol..

kumulus:
You can't accept(believe) what you don't know.

Hence, 'knowledge' births belief.

-Lloyd

That's not quite true. If you consider your own experience you'd find you've at times believed things you know but later found not to be knowledge. An example is the one time belief that the earth was flat which was later found to be based on ignorance.

Essentially, we believe precisely because we do not know the truth. Some of the things believed are pure ignorance.

budaatum:
I'll listen to you when you've read the books mentioned.

Please desist from being specious because as a matter of fact, I not only have all these books in my e-library but I actually have, at one time or the other, read each and/or all the books

budaatum:
As for factual errors in the Quran, errors exist in the Bible too as no book is perfect on these things.

You might find errors in Bible translations, but no, there are no factual errors in or with the original Aramaic and Greek texts

MuttleyLaff:
Please desist from being specious because as a matter of fact, I not only have all these books in my e-library but I actually have, at one time or the other, read each and/or all the books

You might find errors in Bible translations, but no, there are no factual errors in or with the original Aramaic and Greek texts

Continue lying.. If it makes you sleep at night.. No wahala

MuttleyLaff:
You might find errors in Bible translations, but no, there are no factual errors in or with the original Aramaic and Greek texts

I'm certain you say this because you read the Bible in "the original Aramaic and Greek texts". Or is that not so?

MuttleyLaff:
I actually have, at one time or the other, read each and/or all the books

I think you lie just like you lied about Jung on your shelve.

kumulus:
You can't accept(believe) what you don't know.

Hence, 'knowledge' births belief.

-Lloyd

budaatum:
That's not quite true. If you consider your own experience you'd find you've at times believed things you know but later found not to be knowledge. An example is the one time belief that the earth was flat which was later found to be based on ignorance.

Essentially, we believe precisely because we do not know the truth. Some of the things believed are pure ignorance.

The one time belief that the earth was flat was based on an opinion and not a fact

Opinions, changes, but facts don't change. Opinions don't affect facts. But facts, do affect opinions, and make opinions change. The problem is, too many people don't know the difference between what's fact and what's opinion. Opinions change, facts don't because facts are based on reality. The one time belief, that the earth was flat, was based on a fantasy/speculation (i.e. an opinion) and not reality (i.e. a fact)