Tintingz, I am failing to understand why you would not tell me how insane I must be if I claimed a book or some god told me to kill someone.

budaatum:

Yes I can, Xmuslim, and Muslims do so everyday.

It is written in that same book that one should not steal but many Muslims disobey the book and steal, so why can I not disobey the book and not beat my wife?

I wish you good luck in your Islamic journey

Enough of derailing. Let's continue with the amazing quotes from ex-Muslims


The genius of Islam is the way it makes fighting for Muhammad and Islam a guaranteed win win for the individual. If you fight for Islam and survive, you get sex (with slaves) and riches (loot), and if you die you get sex and riches (72 virgins in paradise and other riches). An ingenius recruitment tactic.

mspacific25

Budatuu.m is acting like a sophist socrates was talking about

iamdannyfc:
Budatuu.m is acting like a sophist socrates was talking about

Thanks for the compliment.


What, please, did Socrates say about sophists?

Xmuslim:
Enough of derailing. Let's continue with the amazing quotes from ex-Muslims


The genius of Islam is the way it makes fighting for Muhammad and Islam a guaranteed win win for the individual. If you fight for Islam and survive, you get sex (with slaves) and riches (loot), and if you die you get sex and riches (72 virgins in paradise and other riches). An ingenius recruitment tactic.

mspacific25

This is a lie! You do not know if you get sex (with slaves) and riches (loot) fighting Islam, and you most definitely do not know what you get if you die fighting Islam, and I'm going to strongly suggest you abandon this very ignorant view of Islam and embrace superior Islamic teachings which do also exist, because this ignorant interpretation you keep calling Islam just very sadly shows how limited your Islamic understanding really is!

budaatum:

This is a lie! You do not know if you get sex (with slaves) and riches (loot) fighting Islam, and you most definitely do not know what you get if you die fighting Islam, and I'm going to strongly suggest you abandon this very ignorant view of Islam and embrace superior Islamic teachings which do also exist, because this ignorant interpretation you keep calling Islam just very sadly shows how limited your Islamic understanding really is!

With all due respect, kindly leave my thread. You are ignorant about what you are defending. Thank you

As an ex-muslim, slavery was the last nail in the coffin from me to drop my faith. I cannot be apart of a religion that supports and encourages slavery

TheStrangeGod

When i left islam my life didn’t really change that much. But the major change was internal. I stopped feeling guilty for having human needs.

I stopped feeling bad whenever i listen to music or having sex.

I became very tolerant of others, and most importantly i started appreciating life and working hard instead of hoping that i will get whatever i want in heaven

I started working hard because i know this is the only life i will live. I became happy and free of guilt.

S Al Ameri

Written by: Adam A

Ex Muslim from Saudi Arabia. In the Middle East vast number of people are leaving Islam but, since Islam is so peaceful and demands death of anyone who leaves it people aren’t coming forward.

I know at least 100 people who have all left Islam over 32 members of my family have left Islam since Saudi follows radical Islamic sharia law we can’t come out openly.

We are planing to migrate to other part of the country and pretend that we were Christian and now we are atheist. I am estimating in 50 years Islam will collapse in the Middle East. And if someone kills the al Saud family global Islamic terrorism will be decreased to 50%
Greetings by an Ex Muslim from Mecca.

Xmuslim:


With all due respect, kindly leave my thread. You are ignorant about what you are defending. Thank you

With no respect at all, no, I will not leave your thread so you can spew your ignorance unchallenged and unwillingly to learn.

I will remain here in your thread challenging you when I feel like so those who may may learn.

budaatum:

With no respect at all, no, I will not leave your thread so you can spew your ignorance unchallenged and unwillingly to learn.

I will remain here in your thread challenging you when I feel like so those who may may learn.

you have the freedom to spew your ignorance anywhere. Just know that this is my last response to you. I don't have time to waste. Even the muslims will be laughing at your ignorance .

I didn't know you are this dumb . Defending what you know almost nothing about. You want to reform Islam. Wtf

Xmuslim:
you have the freedom to spew your ignorance anywhere. Just know that this is my last response to you. I don't have time to waste. Even the muslims will be laughing at your ignorance .

I didn't know you are this dumb . Defending what you know almost nothing about. You want to reform Islam. Wtf

Islam is to live in 'submission' to the will of Allah, and our understanding of the Will of Allah and how we submit, like everything else, goes through transformations because people use their own brains and their own eyes and develop and grow instead of just submitting to three generations of so called pious Muslims like you were taught to do.

Please know that I do not write for your response or your time since you are not the only one reading here.

budaatum:

Thanks for the compliment.


What, please, did Socrates say about sophists?

They are intelligent, learned, wise and have experience of different culture (widely travelled).

But socrates doen't like their way expecially in their use of rhetorics ( because they are very good i.e expert in the art of rhetorics )

He doesn't like them not because they are good in rhetorics but because they mostly employ it in an argument/dialogue instead of its proper use i.e in public speaking.

Which implies that they tend to be persuasive in an arguement rather than adhering strictly to logic in expectation to see where it leads to.
so he believe they are not in for the Truth in an arguement but to persuade(using rhetorics).

Nevertheless, he respect them for their intelligence, oratory, wisdom and vast experience anyway.

budaatum:

Islam is to live in 'submission' to the will of Allah, and our understanding of the Will of Allah and how we submit, like everything else, goes through transformations because people use their own brains and their own eyes and develop and grow instead of just submitting to three generations of so called pious Muslims like you were taught to do.

Please know that I do not write for your response or your time since you are not the only one reading here.

You don't even understand Arabic and can't read Qur'an, except merely cherrypicking a handful of quranic verses in English to support your uninformed opinion about a religion you've never practised.

I said that because most of the things you're saying on this thread can only come someone with shallow knowledge about Sharia, Qur'an, and Sunnah.

You can't simply understand Islam like someone like OP that practised (practice against the theoretical knowledge you've) the religion for years or for someone like me that practised it for 30 years before eventually applying tests of logic and scrutiny to it.

You're even a follower (worshipper) of Jesus Christ. Lols and you're commenting about Islam, a religion you've never practised.

You can't even read Qur'an. That's a big joke.

You've no idea about what you've been saying on this thread. It's so glaring.

I'm sure you're merely joking around on this thread.

You don't discuss Islam without citing facts to back your claims from Qur'an and haadith.

You've been merely giving your opinion about Islamic concepts ignorantly. Even Sunni Muslims (Ahlu Sunnah) would laugh at your ignorance on this thread.

Please, stop commenting on a religion you've never practised.

Having practical knowledge about things (especially knowledge of Arabic) is different from merely checking a few things about Islam on Google to argue on Nairaland and cherrypicking few parts from Qur'an to support your ill-informed thoughts about Islam.

No true Muslim cherrypicks few parts of Qur'an and ignore the rest.

You don't even have the aqeedah (creed) required for a (Sunni) Muslim. I guess you need to start from the 6 articles of faith in Islam first because your comments on this thread show you don't even know any of those (hence, your love to cherrypick few parts of Qur'an that appeal to you).

iamdannyfc:

They are intelligent, learned, wise and have experience of different culture (widely travelled).

But socrates doen't like their way expecially in their use of rhetorics ( because they are very good i.e expert in the art of rhetorics )

He doesn't like them not because they are good in rhetorics but because they mostly employ it in an argument/dialogue instead of its proper use i.e in public speaking.

Which implies that they tend to be persuasive in an arguement rather than adhering strictly to logic in expectation to see where it leads to.
so he believe they are not in for the Truth in an arguement but to persuade(using rhetorics).

Nevertheless, he respect them for their intelligence, oratory, wisdom and vast experience anyway.

buda is guilty as charged!

It is Socrates critique of sophism that has taught me to use the tools at my disposal to speak in this very public forum called Nairaland so that the public, like you, can decide to honor the invoice I send you for writing it.

Thanks in advance.

budaatum:


buda is guilty as charged!

It is Socrates critique of sophism that has taught me to use the tools at my disposal to speak in this very public forum called Nairaland so that the public, like you, can decide to honor the invoice I send you for writing it.

Thanks in advance.

Respect!
We learn everyday
True wisdom lies in knowing that we know not.

Real Muslims avoid this thread plague. Whenever they see ex-Muslims that have deep knowledge about Islamic concepts, most of them tend to avoid such people since the former Muslims know a lot about Qur'an and Islam generally that can make other rational Muslims start questioning their faith in Allah and his prophet.

These Muslims know that by engaging ex-Muslims like us in discussion, they too could eventually leave the religion (especially the youths).

As a former Muslim, a Muslim can't win an argument about Islamic concepts with me unless they twist and spin things (which is a common practice with them), because I know the religion deeply, understand Arabic, and have various haadith and Islamic books as part of my library.

So, I know what I discuss in detail whenever I choose to argue about Islamic concepts.

Wonder why core Islamic nations kill ex-Muslims? Which cult (religion) will want an apostate going all about, exposing their secrets?

gensteejay:

You don't even understand Arabic and can't read Qur'an, except merely cherrypicking a handful of quranic verses to support your uninformed opinion about a religion you've never practised.

I said that because most of the things you're saying on this thread can only come someone with shallow knowledge about Sharia, Qur'an, and Sunnah.

You can't simply understand Islam like someone like OP that practised (practice against the theoretical knowledge you've) the religion for years or for someone like me that practised it for 30 years before eventually applying tests of logic and scrutiny to it.

You're even a follower of Jesus Christ. Lols and you're commenting about Islam, a religion you've never practised.

You can't even read Qur'an. That's a big joke.

You've no idea about what you've been saying on this thread. It's so glaring.

I'm sure you're merely joking around on this thread.

You don't discuss Islam without citing facts to back your claims from Qur'an and haadith.

You've been merely giving your opinion about Islamic concepts ignorantly. Even Sunni Muslims (Ahlu Sunnah) would laugh at your ignorance on this thread.

Please, stop commenting on a religion you've never practised.

Having practical knowledge about things (especially knowledge of Arabic) is different from merely checking a few things about Islam on Google to argue on Nairaland and cherrypicking few parts from Qur'an to support your ill-informed thoughts about Islam.

No true Muslim cherrypicks few parts of Qur'an and ignore the rest.

You don't even have the aqeedah (creed) required for a (Sunni) Muslim. I guess you need to start from the 6 articles of faith in Islam first because your comments on this thread show you don't even know any of those (hence, your love to cherrypick few parts of Qur'an that appeal to you).

You are absolutely correct that I have not been brainwashed like you were "for 30 years before eventually applying tests of logic and scrutiny to it" just as many are brainwashed into any religion; and correct too that I do not have any experience of practising Islam and give my own opinion of Islamic concepts. But, no, I am not a Christian, since the exact same allegations you say about my understanding of Islam equally apply to that I have of Christianity. That does not negate the fact that I must have some knowledge or I would not be on here discussing, which, even if I just disagree, would inform me.

As I often say, the books, both the Quran and Bible are very big books, and only by closing your eyes could you not admit that there are millions of practising Muslims who can't read at all, not to talk of in Arabic yet you would not say they are any less Muslims, so I think the fact that I actually read the book, albeit in English, must count for some. Still, here are my very limited credentials, just so you know how ignorant I am.

My maternal grandfather was a Muslim apostate, abandoning it for Anglicanism long before my own mother was born because, as he told me, the "Church had a book, while the ile kewu didn't".

My grandfather on my father's side was a Muslim mystic, and by that I mean he mixed Ibilẹ with his Islam. He couldn't read at all, and waved his Quran in incantations like it was a magic wand, but most of his children, my father included, were apostates just so they could go to the school that the Church that had books had built. As it was at the time, this grandfather had many wives and so some are Muslims who got their hands on the Quran and read it. Amongst them is the Chief Imam, my uncle.

As you can see, my experience, unless I add the fact that most of my village people are Muslims, is very limited and not based on years of brainwashing and indoctrination that makes some think they must submit to three generations of pious Muslims, so of course you must say, 'who is buda to assume to use the brain that the Almighty Allah placed inside buda's head to reason and apply test of logic and scrutiny to Islam'? I expect no less from those dwelling in Plato's Cave, after all, how can a person qualify to comment based on their own reading of the book and study of Islam and applying tests of logic and scrutiny to their reading and study from the start?

Thankfully, I at least know that neither practise, gensteejay, nor 30 years of religious indoctrination qualify one to comment on Islam. The last time I checked the qualification was:

ašhadu ʾan lā ʾilāha ʾilla -llāhu, wa-ʾašhadu ʾanna muḥammadan rasūlu -llāhi

gensteejay:
Real Muslims avoid this thread plague. Whenever they see ex-Muslims that have deep knowledge about Islamic concepts, most of them tend to avoid such people since the former Muslims know a lot about Qur'an and Islam generally that can make other rational Muslims start questioning their faith in Allah and his prophet.

These Muslims know that by engaging ex-Muslims like us in discussion, they too could eventually leave the religion (especially the youths).

As a former Muslim, a Muslim can't win an argument about Islamic concepts with me unless they twist and spin things (which is a common practice with them), because I know the religion deeply, understand Arabic, and have various haadith and Islamic books as part of my library.

So, I know what I discuss in detail whenever I choose to argue about Islamic concepts.

Wonder why core Islamic nations kill ex-Muslims? Which cult (religion) will want an apostate going all about, exposing their secrets?

You only know the poisonous version of Islam that was indoctrinated into you for 30 years and that is why many Muslims avoid these threads.

The Islam that most know does not fit your understanding as displayed here, and the superior learning of Islam they have has taught them that engaging in the sort of muck you promote is haram of the first order!

budaatum:

You are absolutely correct that I have not been brainwashed like you were "for 30 years before eventually applying tests of logic and scrutiny to it" just as many are brainwashed into any religion; and correct too that I do not have any experience of practising Islam and give my own opinion of Islamic concepts. i]

You're really very funny.

I'm sure you know Islam more than Saudi, the founding nation of the religion, hence those fundamental Muslims (who are the real, core Muslims) are also brainwashed and you don't even understand Arabic language.

You even understand the religion more than Muhammad since you're not indoctrinated. Lols.

Very funny. How can you call yourself a Muslim and cherrypick your favorite parts of Qur'an?

You obviously have no idea of the religion you're commenting about.

Better you stick to your worship of Jesus Christ.

Or you can continue joking around on this thread.

budaatum:

You only know the poisonous version of Islam that was indoctrinated into you for 30 years and that is why many Muslims avoid these threads.

The Islam that most know does not fit your understanding as displayed here, and the superior learning of Islam they have has taught them that engaging in the sort of muck you promote is haram of the first order!

So says a worshipper of Jesus Christ that can't even read Qur'an in Arabic yet feels he/she knows the religion more than even Muhammad himself. Lols.

gensteejay:

You're really very funny.

I'm sure you know Islam more than Saudi, the founding nation of the religion, hence those fundamental Muslims (who are the real, core Muslims) are also brainwashed and you don't even understand Arabic language.

You even understand the religion more than Muhammad since you're not indoctrinated. Lols.

Very funny. How can you call yourself a Muslim and cherrypick your favorite parts of Qur'an?

You obviously have no idea of the religion you're commenting about.

Better you stick to your worship of Jesus Christ.

Or you can continue joking around on this thread.

I do not call myself a Muslim, since I am not a Muslim, nor do I worship Jesus Christ. But I understand your lack of objectivity.

gensteejay:
So says a worshipper of Jesus Christ that can't even read Qur'an in Arabic yet feels he/she knows the religion more than even Muhammad himself. Lols.

The poverty of your argument shows in the fact that you feel the need to misrepresent my position and lie.

budaatum:

I do not call myself a Muslim, since I am not a Muslim, nor do I worship Jesus Christ. But I understand you lack of objectivity.

I'm lying that you're a follower of Jesus? So, who is Jesus Christ to you then?

We know what each of the Bible and Qur'an says about Jesus Christ.

What's your own stance as a person?

Erm Buda, don't get it twisted oo.

Sophist is not a compliment philosphically.

By: Hassan Radwan

The human condition is one of continuous struggle and no one is exempt from the emotional ups and downs - whether religious or not.

It's true that many (but not all) who lose their faith go through a difficult period of readjustment, but it is precisely because they were religious! Because (for many) Islam consumed their whole identity, dictating every aspect of life. It created a dependence, much like a drug, which when taken away causes a period of difficulty. That is the fault of religion - not disbelief.

But once one gets through that phase, there is nothing in life better than facing the reality of life with all its joys and sorrows with honesty and clarity. The feeling that all humanity is one Ummah. The increased love, compassion and empathy for the human condition - without all the biases and group think.

I would never swap the indescribable feeling of being true to myself for the false promises of religion - which does not offer the complete peace and joy many Muslims claim.

gensteejay:

I'm lying that you're a follower of Jesus? So, who is Jesus Christ to you then?

We know what each of the Bible and Qur'an says about Jesus Christ.

What's your own stance as a person?

Jesus was a teacher of great things worth emulating by the wise.

The wise seek understanding instead of stances.

budaatum:

Jesus was a teacher of great things worth emulating by the wise.

The wise seek understanding instead of stances.

Interesting. One of the core teachings of Jesus Christ is that people should worship Jehovah (who he calls his father) as God through him (Jesus).

Is that teaching right or wrong?

What does Qur'an say about people that worship Jehovah or Jesus instead of Allah?

What's the ultimate destination of their soul after death if they die in that state of worshipping Jesus or Yahweh instead of Allah?

iamdannyfc:
Erm
Buda, don't get it twisted oo.

Sophist is not a compliment philosphically.

Lol. You are the one claiming I'm a sophists, as in, one who uses rhetoric to acquire payment. That is the reason I am grateful you will honor the bill that I will send you for the money you accused me of sophistry making you pay me.

Please add 20% service charge or tip when you pay, and thank you in advance.

gensteejay:

Interesting. One of the core teachings of Jesus Christ is that people should worship Jehovah (who he calls his father) as God through him (Jesus).

Is that teaching right or wrong?

What does Qur'an say about people that worship Jehovah or Jesus?

What's the ultimate destination of their soul after death if they die in that state of worshipping Jesus or Yahweh?

You once used the word, "archetype", so I would expect you'd understand when John says "Jesus is the archetype of Logos", the Logos itself being the proper understanding of the Word of God, be it that from the Bible or Quran or anywhere, which is what enables one to enter Paradise also referred to by some as the Kingdom of God and the Lord's Tabernacle and heaven where those who worship God will dwell.

But of course that's not the answer you ask for since that's not what you were indoctrinated into believing and you dare not "apply tests of logic and scrutiny to it" because no one has given you permission I suppose.