artofphil:


I guess a better way to discuss this is not to focus the acts carried out but the source of the desire to carry out said acts.

Everyone is tempted to lie or cheat or fornicate, we know this comes from our human nature. However not everyone is tempted to lust over the same sex.

Seeing as this tendency to lust over the same sex has happened for all of human history across separate isolated communities, where do you think the source of this behaviour comes from

I'm tempted to believe it's intrinsically tied to our human nature. And you get a percentage of homos vs heteros. Again this occured in communities that never interacted with one another.

If we can agree that this stems from natural causes, i.e genes and the human condition, how can we even begin to regard it has unnatural?

I am answering this post because I think that you should have seen my responses to similar questions and arguments in your other posts.

It is true that there are sins that we all have similar affinity for, for example, all human beings are naturally antagonistic toward God from birth. So, we can certainly say that while everyone is tempted by similar things in general, there are some more specialized temptations that appear to be exclusive to some people rather than to everyone. However, your conclusion from that observation is very highly unusual. It would seem to me that the things that are universal are the things that we should consider natural, while the things that are limited to some portions of the population can be considered anomalies. You seem to have it the opposite way curiously. I apologise if I have misunderstood you; please explain a little more, if I have.

The sum of your argument, however, boils down to definitions. As I have said a few times already and in the very post that you were responding to too, how Christians define things and how atheists define the same thing are world's apart. The Bible does not call something natural just because it appears to show up in different historical and cultural contexts. Nor does it call something natural just because wild animals are found doing it. It calls anything natural if it is true to the intent of its design. That is to say that when a human being acts in a way that fits God's revealed purpose for creating humans, then they can be said to be acting naturally. If they act in any way that violates that purpose, then regardless of any opposing arguments, the human is necessarily acting unnaturally.

You should see from that why this is a meaningless debate for Christians and atheists to have. If you don't believe what Christians believe, how can you agree with Christians on what may be natural and what may not be? For what it is worth, still, I will say that the Bible is clear that homosexuality is at the pinnacle of madness when we rate the unnatural things that people do. It is because of a similar thing that God imprisoned a number of rebel angels back in the time of Noah: they were entering into sexual relationships with human women and producing children with those women. Likewise, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for the exact same thing of which we are speaking now. We also have warnings and prophecies that when the end comes, that is, when the Lord Jesus returns to take up rulership over this world, the world will be so ruined in moral decency that crazy things like homosexuality will be treated as normal. This is precisely why there will be such a massive loss of life in the seven years that lead up to the moment of that Return. And when indeed He comes back, He will kill even more people. There will be just a handful of human beings left on earth by the time God is done with the judgments connected with the Second Advent.

As I said, atheists (and other people who reject biblical Christianity) do not believe these things, so I am not appealing to any common sense that you may share with me. I am just explaining what Christians believe or ought to believe.

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Can't do without being the snake you are, right? Play the yeye game of foolery properly, you can read. Name 10 "high profile" (whatever that means) gay Christians and i will name 50 known respectable Christians for every 10.

You made a demand and I made a counter demand, its quite simple.

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And who is the purported excellent student when we have Jesus and the apostles? What should we call those ones? Why should we turn blind eye to them and have fits on purported excellent students?

I didn't know Jesus and the apostles were cured from homosexual orientation, tell me more. LMFAO!

[quote author=jeruzi post=95927831]

People have the feeling and urge to steal. Many fight it, and those who satisfy the urge to steal are criminalised. Yet this is not called intolerance. Your having a strong drive for sex and the idea to rape is coming to your mind does not mean you must rape. What you need to do is to reject the idea and fight it off. So also, because you feel like having sex with a fellow man (gay) or a fellow woman (lesbian), because you feel like being a bisexual or a transexual does not mean it is right nor that you must satisfy.. it. Just like the idea to steal, rape or the idea to cause harm or kill comes to your mind when you are angry and you fight them off, you should also fight off the idea of being a LGBT.

Wrong analogy homosexuality is between 2 consenting adult in most cases where as what you've up here is an action that hurts or affects other people. When you rape or steal your actions cause distress to the individuals involved.

@artofphil, see my response at https://www.nairaland.com/6249350/christianity-lgbt/6#96381690.

You should avoid quoting it, if you wish to reply since it was tagged by the antispam bot when I posted it at first. If you do, your post may be tagged too and your account banned.

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@Muttley. You and long posts seem inseparable. Lol.

I'll take this on board and try to be my reply as succinct as I possibly can

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Liars, thieves, idolaters and killers are sinners with homos, they are in the same boat of shame. The bible clearly and several times condemns homosexuality, even Paul says they are not normal.

You would have told the truth, if you had correctly said that, the bible clearly and several times condemns liars, thieves, idolaters, killers and homosexuality that borders with infidelity, promiscuity, temple prostitution, attempted rape, cruelty, wickedness, inhospitality, jumping from one bed to another et cetera.

Apostle Paul, fyi and incidentally actually, to start with, in Romans 1:18-32, especially verses 24 & 27, is echoing what happened around when Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 were given. Of course it isnt normal to engage in the weird sexual customs the pagans where indulging in

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It is abnormal and crazy for man to leave woman and instead be lusting after a fellow man, things that people should be ashamed about.

Lust, regardless of whom you lust over is a sin, lmso. It isn't exclusive to any particular sexual orientation or preference, lmso

Having same sex attraction, as it happens in opposite sex attraction too, is just an attraction, there is nothing sinful in same sex attraction or opposite sex attraction, lmso. There's nothing to be ashamed about for being attracted to someone

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Homosexuality like every other sin is heinous and hideous. Sin lands people in hell, the wage of sin is ultimately hell. Do the math.

Homosexuality per se, is not heinous hideous and/or sinful. It's homophobia actually, thats heinous, hideous and/or sinful

Homophobia will land someone like you in the lake of fire, the wage of this is ultimately the lake of fire. Do the calculation(s)

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Homosexuality, is of course associated with sins like wickedness, cruelty, unkindness, temple sex prostitution, promiscuity, debauchery, idolatry, attempted rape, orgies in the Bible as you rightly submit.

I am really glad to read you accept and agreeing to the variations of homosexuality, lmso.

Whenever the Bible slates anything that sounds remotely homosexuality, it is always when its in association with wickedness, cruelty, unkindness, temple sex prostitution, promiscuity, debauchery, idolatry, attempted rape, orgies, infidelity, jumping from one bed to another, lmso

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This is enough reason to sanely abstain from it and not go headlong in its defense, even repeatedly throwing me into hell and teeth gnashing ahead of it. SMH.

Each one of the Levitical passages are talking about cultic temple male prostitution practices. Please do your 2 Timothy 2:15 homework so to put yourself in a position to have a proper discussion!

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Jesus often referred to man's beginning as a template and pattern to follow in tandem with God's will. We have clearly seen that the beginning had no Male and male marriage or Madam and Eve, but clearly heterosexual.

Madam and Steve, came from the template Adam and Eve. Homosexuals come from heterosexuals, lmso, they dont pop out from thin air or nowhere, lmso

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Homos are to repent and find love, marriage and companionship in the set pattern from the beginning.

Though homophobe(s) rarely and hardly repent, but I nonetheless challenge you to step out of your preconception of not knowing that love, monogamy, faithfulness, marriage/civil partnership and companionship, is not a rule, only applied, to heterosexuals.

The set pattern from the beginning, is talking of the templates (i.e. Adam and Eve) but what about others, after the beginning, lmso, hmm?

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There are many like them who have done this. Some homos straddle by being bisexual. So, even humanly, there is the possibility. Not to mention what the exceeding grace of God can do.

Bisexual, is simply someone attracted to both sexes. You and I as heterosexuals are attracted to the opposite sexes, but we are committed to one person. Havent you cop on that bisexuals though attracted to both sexes, are also governed by the monogamy rule, lmso, ni?

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As to your second post Muttley. Saying something is wrong or a sin doesn't equal condemnation.

OK, if you are not condemning permissible and acceptable homosexuality, then what exactly, is wrong and the sin in two easy going, innocent, harmless, ordinary consenting God believing adults, minding their own businesses enjoying a life long caring, faithful to each other, committed to each other, truthful to each other, honest, lasting that's a lifetime life-long and loyal same-sex monogamous relationship, that is not causing damage or harm to another person, not betraying of another person, or even, not cheating on another person, and not being harmful to an object or neighbour, who love each other, enjoy each other’s company, are mutually respectful to each other, mutually supportive to each other, and all that and more, sometimes without sex necessarily being the leading or most important thing for them, loving each other, hmm?

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Homosexuality is a sin, fornication is a sin, pride is a sin, wickedness is a sin ...

Where did you read that blanket homosexuality is sin?

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... Anyone doing these things should repent. There is no condemnation in that. If i judge them ahead and exclude them from repentance is what is condemnation.

"You hypocrite!
First take the beam out of your own eye,
and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."
- Matthew 7:5

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You decided not to tell us your source of repeated extra biblical information. Are you shy or developing cold feet?

I did not only, in fact answer all of your literal grovelling of my source, salt, maggi, pepper, sauce and ingredients, I even, also corrected you that I'll stick to biblical information and not even go into extra biblical information. I gave you a signpost that shows what is/are the biblical verse(s), but sheer laziness got the better of you, lmso. I guess you want don't want to see and read the truth because you want to prolong your illusion(s), lmso

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i didn't start the strawman mining, i only helped you mine further as my friend so you can see and stop mining. Talking about homos having good parts is no different from talking about a killer with a good and sincere heart or nice and generous side.

Show me which one out of the Ten Commandments, a monogamous homo has violated and I will show you which one out of the Ten Commandments, a killer has violated. A killer with a good and sincere heart or nice and generous side, will not commit murder, lmso, neither will a homo with a good and sincere heart or nice and generous side commit murder. Capisce?

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So, you think it unnecessary to mention your source that you have hanged all your homo love on, but want me to go and be searching your posts for it ...

Dump the "MuttleyLaff male shrine prostitutes" string into the Nairaland search engine to magically find the unmistakable desired and coveted source, in plain view.

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... Lol, hold it and try not to repeatedly bore me with it. Give me the Bible like you want to start suggesting

1/ 71:32 ymonoretueD
2/ 42:41 sgniK 1
3/ 03-82 ,52-42 ,3:81 sucitiveL

There are so many other places, in the bible about this satanic ritual, sex orgy and detestable custom being practised, but the above trio numbered few case in points, should suffice for you to pull your fingers out and dig your molars into, lmso

artofphil:
I pray the God that deleted S and G can delete our homosexual communities in today's society.

S and G, were "deleted" sic because of homosexuality. S and G were "deleted" sic primarily because of their inhospitality. They proved they were an unfriendly and unwelcoming lot by their dastardly plan and attempt to gang rape two complete strangers.

artofphil:
I'm curious why he doesn't

If He did, you prolly wouldnt have this medium you are interacting on, lmso. Why not curiously go find out who Alan Turing OBE FRS is and all what his contribution to computing is, lmso.

artofphil:
God please, hundreds of thousands of children die each day from poverty but please kill gays instead of helping these kids

What of stillbirths, who never had a chance, lmso

artofphil:
It's sad that hearing about homosexuality causes so much pain and suffering to you and society, I can only imagine how much more pain and suffering those that get disowned and ostracized for being gay get to experience.
Apparently it causes some other people pain knowing that men like women.

You see how truth has led to behaviours generating into hatred. Thankfully the behaviour of animals has not deteriorated over the years like the behaviour of some of the human race, in general, that we have seen been sported on this thread.

Homosexuals are never jealous of heterosexuals for their men liking women and vice versa. Homosexuals are never in pain that men like women or women like men, but it is always heterosexuals, who are pained knowing that same sex like each other and/or attracted to each other.

artofphil:
I'm curious about the increase in crime, can you please send me a link

Of course that claim about "increase in crime" is b s and bullpiss.

LMAO!!!
Serious argument go dey heaven on judgement day honestly

I used to get really pissed when christians start quoting parts of the bible during arguments especially when they try to justify their intolerance or hate towards a certain group of people.....but now I actually feel sad for them cuz when you die you will go and answer questions in heaven..

The same bible says love your neighbor as yourself but you people won't see that one....

@n/l homophobes....stop being so COMFORTABLE with being IGNORANT!!!

Simple compassion and common sense would cure your homophobia.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12741538_c0d4cdcff6e3497f91d8e341bdf6efd5_jpeg387dea84f4de3bf14e6e83784958dcd7

LordReed:


I didn't know Jesus and the apostles were cured from homosexual orientation, tell me more. LMFAO!

Where did i say or suggest so? i asked you to look up to Jesus as a perfect example. Or at least, the apostles and beautiful Christians many people know, you went to pick scandals as your definition of excellence.

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Where did i say or suggest so? i asked you to look up to Jesus as a perfect example. Or at least, the apostles and beautiful Christians many people know, you went to pick scandals as your definition of excellence.

Because we are talking about people who were "cured" of homosexuality and you mentioned Jesus and the Apostles, I therefore assume you are using them as an example to buttress your "cure" point.

I didn't pick scandal as an example of excellence but as a clear show that your "cure" narrative is false.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/gay-penguin-couple-adopt-chick-melbourne-b1762200.html

The famous same-sex penguin couple that made international headlines after becoming parents for the first time have decided to expand their family by adopting another chick.

Named Sphen and Magic, also known as Sphengic together, are now the proud parents of a new Gentoo Penguin chick, hatched in the Sea Life Aquarium in Melbourne.

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Where did i say or suggest so? i asked you to look up to Jesus as a perfect example. Or at least, the apostles and beautiful Christians many people know, you went to pick scandals as your definition of excellence.

None of the Apostles wrote anything against two easy going, innocent, harmless, ordinary consenting God believing adults, minding their own businesses enjoying a life long caring, faithful to each other, committed to each other, truthful to each other, honest, lasting that's a lifetime life-long and loyal same-sex monogamous relationship, that is not causing damage or harm to another person, not betraying of another person, or even, not cheating on another person, and not being harmful to an object or neighbour, who love each other, enjoy each other’s company, are mutually respectful to each other, mutually supportive to each other, and all that and more, sometimes without sex necessarily being the leading or most important thing for them, loving each other.

I gave to you a numbered list of ten beautiful Christians many people know, who if not currently into same sex attraction, are exposed to have explored into it,